"Obama's the nominee, so I won't vote."

[GOPBasher]

I just heard a die-hard, lifelong Democrat say that. I don't fucking get it. What has Obama done that so offensive?

Seriously, I actually want to hear from Hillary supporters. I am an Obama supporter who would be happy to work my butt off for Hillary is she were the nominee. I like her, but I just preferred Obama.

I seriously want to understand this. It seems to me like he ran a very honorable campaign.

[AllentownJake]

1. This was her turn

Don't you understand HER TURN!

[galaxy21]

4. They'll change their minds

what with the 100 years in Iraq and Mccain controlling your uterus.

[RiverStone]

46. I agree - most will support Obama

Emotions are still running too high.

[Rubiconski2009]

107. Give 'em time, they'll come around.

I blame Clinton for misleading her supporters about her odds of winning.

She has fed the media a line about why she is electable but I don't think even she believed it.

[Shakespeare]

6. And it's reminding more and more of this:

[roguevalley]

128. it amazes me that other disappointed people were able to move

on from their candidate's losses. No one felt worse about Clark (maybe :) than i did but I moved on and I moved on from Gore and Edwards. This is irrational and says something about the people speaking that they would ash can the future for this person. No one is more important than the country and her people. Too bad some hillary supporters cannot be as big as Kucinich, edwards, et al people.

[Pharaoh]

2. Must be racist or

not very conscious:shrug:

[emilyg]

11. Everyone who doesn't support Obama is

a racist. How convenient.

[Pharaoh]

19. What do you not like

about Obama?

[emilyg]

27. He's ok. I like and respect and trust Clinton much more.

[Pharaoh]

29. Well I hope you can

take another look at him :hi:

Sorry if I offended you.

[emilyg]

48. Of course I will.

Lots of time till Nov. for me to take a look.

:hug: for being nice.

[Zhade]

65. You trust someone when undeniable video evidence PROVES she lied to your face about Tuzla?

WTF?

[emilyg]

89. Very unimportant issue to me.

[Thrill]

93. If it isn't race. Please explain how a life long Dem would vote for McCain

over someone who is very very much like Hillary policy wise. When the alternative is voting for a guy who always votes with the Republicans and is one of the main guys in Congress who pushed for this war. Tell me how the hell a Democrat would do this? Especially when you consider McCain is going to appoint another Justice? I'll tell you. ITS RACE. Sad but true

[tblue37]

126. Not "another" SC justice--at least 2 and probaly 3 justices1 n/t

[susankh4]

131. I can see it.

Because some folks are more interested in action than talk. They just are. Mr. McCain has a long voting history for them to look at. He has voted for liberal and conservative judges, for instance. He also has a history of "crossing the aisle" for what that's worth.

Policy is one thing. Action is another. I would venture a guess that the more educated folks are the more interested in written "policy" they become.

Working class people, in my experience, tend to look at action. They may even have a mistrust of "policy." Because they see it as unyeilding and not able to be applied to real life.

Don't shoot me.... I'm just answering your question. In case you really do want to understand.

It is my hope that the folks who are nominating Mr. Obama will try to understand the "New Deal Dems." Cuz you will need them to go forward.... and the vitriole being aimed at them now can only harm your candidate in November.

[Zhade]

101. HONESTY is an unimportant issue to you?

I'm glad I don't live in YOUR skin.

[Tyler Durden]

123. "I support Single Payer Heathcare" (years later) "I support Insurance Company Healthcare"

Guess who said those things? (No, not exact quotes, but verifiable).

NO politician in these days is 100% honest and honorable. If they were, they wouldn't get past the front door. Past time BO supporters admitted that, AND admitted their slurs against Clinton were largely to win BO the nomination.

A little honesty on that would go a long way toward healing the schism.

[Hieronymus]

104. Aside from the numerous lies and racism?

[emilyg]

109. That's your opinion.

[Tyler Durden]

124. Keep up the one line hit jobs.

SO designed to win over the supporters of the defeated candidate.

You guys (here and in the real world) are your candidate's own worst enemies.

[L0oniX]

20. Yes ...I think older white women tend to be racist.

:evilfrown:

[roseBudd]

53. Older whites are much more likely to disapprove of interracial dating

The Obama generation doesn't have the same hangups

[L0oniX]

55. Also the youth and the college grads don't have those hangups.

[2rth2pwr]

72. Just look at his Grannie, and it's clear as day.

[emilyg]

96. LOL. You're good.

[cooolandrew]

118. I wouldn't assume that even as devil's advocate. Everyone varys all welcome after the healing.

[2rth2pwr]

73. LOL! Must be racist or unconscious.

[MrSlayer]

3. I hope you called the person a fool.

Because if that's what they are going to do then that's what they are. Such idiocy.

[dorktv]

8. Politeness can win over voters.

Being a dick never does.

Come on, is this your first campaign?

[MrSlayer]

13. No. I just have an honesty problem.

It is patently foolish to cut off your nose to spite your face. If I hear something that dumb I have to call the person on it.

[dorktv]

17. You can be honest without being a dick about it.

[MrSlayer]

25. I guess. But one dickhead comment deserves another.

People like that need to be slapped back to reality. Many times the dick comment catches their attention easier.

Person 1: "Obama's the nominee, I'm not going to vote"

Person 2: "You are a fool."

1: "Why are you being a dick to me?"

2: "You're the one threatening to let McCain win and I'm the dick?"

1: "Oh, yeah. I am being a crybaby dick aren't I?"

2: "Yes, would you like to rethink this?"

1: "I suppose I should. Thanks for the reality check"

2: "It's what I'm here for. We need to retake the Presidency."

1: "Forget I said anything. Let's go get a taco."

2: "Cool."

[dorktv]

30. Again, being a dick is not going to win you votes. But apparently you think

it is okay to throw away votes needed to win.

how about saying "are you kind of sore right now?" "yeah" "Heck, let us go get a taco and talk of other things."

[MrSlayer]

39. Is this person a friend of yours?

If they are you can certainly be a dick to them. You're obligated to do so. If you aren't close to this person I can see where you might want to take a softer approach.

[dorktv]

45. I can be and am a total dick to my best friend, but when it comes to winning over

a vote, I am polite to him about it. Regardless of what he says to me.

Just because you refuse to have manners does not mean everyone does.

[MrSlayer]

58. It might be a cultural thing.

We are quite salty in Philly. It's expected, especially among friends.

[dorktv]

63. um yeah.

[emilyg]

98. No it doesn't. Rise above it.

[emilyg]

97. You got it right.

[dodger501]

127. Here is an even bigger fool

Voting for McCain instead of staying home:

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/letters/18815009.html

So Obama is unelectable so they are voting for McCain to prove it.
Makes sense to me. Not.

[corkhead]

5. 2 words

Supreme Court.

tell this person to SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!

[dorktv]

7. Maybe they just feel that he is not what they want in a president.

They can always abstain you know.

[Erin Elizabeth]

83. And I understand that.

Hillary wouldn't have been what I wanted in a president. Not even close.

But McCain is about 10 light years away, so.....

[AZBlue]

94. But McCain is?

They have only two choices: McCain or Obama.

[4themind]

9. I think

there are a gamut of reasons for this stuff, some argued rationally, others, maybe not so much. All we can do is talk about the issues, and try and win some over, but it's their vote and they can spend it how they wish, or keep it in their pocket. If they have the means to endure the consequences of their choice, then that's their call. Sorry if the tone seems off, but that's just how I see it realistically right now, I'm hoping the environment will change over time, but we'll see.

[dorktv]

15. I was talking on Myspace in the political forums and there was someone

on there who claimed to be a Senator Obama campaign worker.

Another person on the forum mentioned some of Rev. Wright's remarks and when the worker claimed it was not true, the person asked for sources proving him wrong.

The worker was very impolite to someone who was not even being that rude (just challenging) and I said "Hey, you know if you want to win voters, even if this guy will never ever vote for your candidate, being polite will do more-even if the other person starts acting rude. It shows class and those who may see this will see that and be more likely to vote for your candidate. So why be rude?" That person went on to be rude to myself as well. :eyes:

That is what drives me nuts about a lot of the Senator Obama supporters-they are rude when there is no reason to be rude.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. you do realize many a claim that cannot be confirmed or is hard to confirm

is made on the internets

I learned a long time ago not to fully trust what people claim on the internets

When somebody tells you that they were a special forces due in (insert here action) I take my skeptic hat out and wear it

Try it with campaign workers as well

[dorktv]

111. I had my doubts when he claimed to have worked 22 hours every day for 3.5 weeks.

And when I called him on it, he got really huffy.

It is actually amusing.

[Shine]

10. My sense is people saying that now will change their tune come November

they're just blowing off steam cuz they're pissed Hillary couldn't pull it off.

It's a long time between now and November. Have faith, they'll come around again...

[tekisui]

121. It's the last bargaining chip.

And, it is the last argument for HIllary. She can tout that her supporter won't go to Obama, thus he is unelectable.

And HIllary's Defenders play along.

[Renew Deal]

12. Most likely dealing with grief.

Or something to do with a white sheet.

[stray cat]

14. I didn't hear that from Edwards, Biden, Richardson or any of the other supporters

What gives with Hillary supporters. Alot of voters don't get their first choice at the end of a primary. Most don't support Bush or his minions.

[anonymous171]

16. Edwards, Biden, and Richardson supporters were probably more issue-oriented

Hillary has a slightly creepy cult of personality. Not to say that Obama doesn't have one either. It's just that Hillary's cult has existed since 2000.

[Wetzelbill]

26. yeah the cult thing is associated with Obama

but Hillary has a similar thing going on with her with some of her supporters too. There isn't a whole lot of difference between the two on policy, but in terms of what their supporters see in them or not, big difference. And you could go back even further, I won't use the word "cult" but Hillary has had some hardcore supporters since 1992. People, especially women, rallied around the idea of a non-Stepford wife as the First Lady. She's an icon.

[SoxFan]

64. It predates 2000

As far back as the early stages of the 1992 campaign (summer/fall 1991), Hillary has had an unshakeable core of early-vintage Boomer women supporters. Oddly, at the outset, most of them were very liberal, at least on social and pelvic issues. Now, even as Hillary transmogrifies into a weird latter day George Wallace, she holds that core support, so she feels free to go pandering to the less noble instincts in rural voters.

[eridani]

112. Real issue junkies were for Kucinich

And I don't think that either Clinton or Obama has a "cult." The thing is, people only fall in love politically once every 25 years or so. Plenty of people in 2004 were involved for the first time (or for the first time in many years) for Dean or Kucinich. The second time around, I supported Kucinich again but without 2004 passion--I knew he wasn't likely to win, I just wanted him to advocate his platform and push other candidates in his direction. It worked, too--Edwards was far more populist this time around than in 2004 IMO. And both Clinton and Obama have had to address "free" trade agreements more than they would have otherwise. A lot of new people this round were brought in by Obama. After they have their noses rubbed in the fact that real change is hard, some will stick around and dig in and others will give up. None will go through the same "in love" thing in 2012.

[TBF]

21. Hillary supporters are more invested. This has gone on awhile, while the others bowed out early.

It is a long time until November. While I won't lie and say I love Hillary, I do think at some point people are going to have to be a little more conciliatory (it will come when Hillary finally concedes), and Hillary's followers will have to take a deep breath and really think about who what kind of person they want in the white house next year. I think most will want Obama, because he is quite liberal. The few that are truly racist (I just can't believe there are that many dems who are) will vote for McCain & yes deserve what they get. I do think the country is ready for a change. Obama is very charismatic and correct on the issues, while the Republicans are sending this country into a recession with their crazy war-mongering.

[Wetzelbill]

22. a few different reasons

None of them came as close as she did, and also Hillary spent a few years as the presumed frontrunner and most of the last year as the "inevitable" nominee, to see that all come crashing down in February was rough. Then to fight a few more months of a hard campaign, where supporters of both camps would get angry and fight with each other, that all is a massive amount of emotion, personal investment, and bruised feelings to deal with. Almost 6 months is a long time to heal those wounds.

[dorktv]

33. Senator Clinton supporters are not allowed to heal. They are just expected to fall in.

See above responses to a person who seems to believe that a non-Obama supporter is someone to be a dick to.

Honestly, one is almost of the opinion that supporting Senator Obama means losing one's ability to reason or to have compassion.

[anonymous171]

34. I understand that they need to heal.

I myself have sworn from time to time that I would never vote for Hillary. But that was just anger that I needed to resolve before I could swear to vote for the nominee.

[dorktv]

You are apparently one of the few

Two seconds after she won Indiana it started up again.

[Wetzelbill]

43. yeah I think everybody needs to unwind

I was and have been neutral on both candidates. I couldn't make up my mind and didn't vote in the primary because of it. You can't expect everybody to fall in line yet, nor can you expect lingering anger to dissipate right away on either side. I think it's tempting for some Obama supporters to say: "We won, it's over, get on board" but it's not that easy yet. That's what I thought at first, I felt, well, it's over, lets all unify. But I'm not heavily invested in Hillary, so I can't exactly say I have all that much emotion about it, not in that way.

[dorktv]

54. Yep, it is like demanding the Deaniacs suddenly start campaigning for Kerry.

Anytime you are invested in someone, it takes time to reset your gears.

[anonymous171]

84. Good analogy.

[IsItJustMe]

86. Every living human being is different. No need to make such broad assumptions about anybody.

[Exilednight]

18. Don't vote, then don't fucking complain. If you vote for McCain, and he wins, you get the .......

fucking government you deserve.

[bpeale]

23. you don't want to HEAR anything. you want to start a fight.

[GOPBasher]

66. No, actually I want to hear stuff, so I can make a case for my candidate.

This man said that he was bothered by Reverend Wright and "his other connections." So, I tried to make an argument, was unable to sway him, and that's all. It's not true that I'm trying to start a fight.

[Pushed To The Left]

82. Has he ever heard of John Hagee or Rod Parsley?

Those 2 make Wright look downright moderate by comparison! I don't like the whole guilt-by-association thing, but if he sees it as an issue against Obama then he should also see it as an issue against McCain. They can't have it both ways.

[bpeale]

132. but you don't want to hear it. you just want to argue for your candidate

[roseBudd]

24. that person is being childish plain and simple

[Irishonly]

28. It Makes You Shake Your Head

I am not sure what it is. Sometimes I think it's sour grapes but then other times I think it's profound disappointment. I hope time can heal the wounds of this messy, emotional campaign. Some people tell me it's principle and that one confuses me. I just don't know how anyone can look at McCain and think he will provide any democratic principles.

[NJSecularist]

31. He and his surrogates accused the Clintons of being race baiters.

That is the reason why many will not vote for Obama in November - he has run a dirty campaign and many of his surrogates have thrown two great Democrats under the bus and accused them of race baiting.

[wileedog]

35. SOunds like a legitmate reason to extend the Iraq war for 100 years

Your nation thanks you for your foresight, cool reason and ability to separate internet emo from reality.

[NJSecularist]

37. You and your ilk should have seperated internet emo from reality when you...

.. and your friends were savagely attacking Hillary and accusing her on being a race baiter.

Obama's (and his surrogates) chickens are coming home to roost.

[wileedog]

49. Personally I have done no such thing

That being said, aren't you the champion of showing polls and saying they have nothing to do with what goes on here?

Furthermore, when her OWN FRIGGIN SUPPORTERS(Rangel) are calling her on this shit, maybe, just maybe, she crossed the line a little bit. Ya think?

Hillary is what she is, and whatever I say or you say her actions and words will be interpreted as they will be. But man she has broad jumped some lines this election, and she caught the appropriate heat. Her and her husband would say the same thing, they are not stupid. They knew what the reactions would be, and threw the dice anyway. They are no political novices.

You can take your ball and go home, that is your choice. But a lot more is at stake here than the reputations of Hillary and Bill Clinton. And I fully do expect at some point even they will realize that.

[dorktv]

40. if you look at several of the posts on this very thread you see people

accusing her supporters of being racist. Jumping to a major conclusion there and they are supposed to just hold hands and sing Kumbaya?

It does not work that way.

[wileedog]

59. Are you a racist?

If not, why do you give a crap what some anonymous person on the internets called you?

Are you willing to seat multiple SC judges who will overturn things like RvW just for your petty pride? Thousands more dead soldiers so your own anonymous internet identity is not sullied?

I understand the logic of what Hillary and her supporters are saying, I understand they are just trying to parse this as another demographic, so what's the big deal? I also understand the offense of some, because the message very easily reads "Certain white people won't vote for a black man, so he is not electable". Both arguments have merit, IMO, but the fact that the 2nd argument exists trumps the first one as far as I'm concerned.

I assure you Hillary understands the fallout from her comments and her current strategy push too. She is no novice, she knew what was coming.

The choice is yours of course, but I hope by the fall you understand the big picture is far more important than the silly bickering here.

[dorktv]

68. Why do you assume that if I find it offense to be assumed to be racist

or OTHER people being assumed to be racist based on no facts outside of not supporting a certain candidate and supporting a certain candidate, that automatically means I or they must be racist? Or it would not "bother me."

Sorry no, people acting like jerks to someone's supporters or nonsupporters can and does have an effect, even if it is just the interwebz. It does not also make one inclined to take a look at such a candidate.

[wileedog]

79. Because you were the one that implied it

Or perhaps I misinterpreted the kumbaya comment, in which case my apologies.

My point is it is not really about looking at candidates anymore. I'm assuming you know that at the very least the majority of Obama's policies are similar to Hillary's, and the vast majority of McCains are, well, stupid.

I know emotions are high, and there are dingbats on both sides of this, but in the end that is what matters.

IMHO

[dorktv]

80. My opinion is "stop calling anyone who supports Senator Clinton a racist

and let them heal if she loses which looks likely."

Manners-they take no effort and make a difference.

[wileedog]

87. Its a valid opinion

If the positions were reversed quite frankly I would probably check out of politics until the convention, and then try to summon up reasons why I should support Hillary.

Give it time. I'm actually looking forward to some of the Hillary posters who presented clear and rational thought and strong arguments starting to work for our collective side. Will be much more fun.

But we'll have to slog through the aftermath for a while first. Just like Hil supporters can't flick a switch and like Obama, Obama supporters can't flick a switch and forget months of animosity. And again, if the situations were reversed Hillary supporters would be no better. Nature of the beast.

[dorktv]

105. My advice to anyone having that much issue is to simply walk away

and go eat an ice cream cone.

Ice cream makes the world a better place. And to not indulge in calling ANYONE a racist without stone cold proof they are.

[emilyg]

100. Racism has been

thrown around DU so much it has lost any meaning.

[hfojvt]

110. why does the racist card get played?

There was no such accusation of Hillary supporters, and there typically is not, but I am constantly seeing the complaint "some Obot said Hillary supporters are racists". And then when I check out the offending post the accusation was made of "Hillary supporters WHO WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA". There's a huge difference, isn't there?

I started this primary as an Edwards supporter. And as an Edwards supporter I bought some buttons and a tote bag and rented a van and drove to Wichita for the Democratic Convention to give the 25 buttons away. Edwards dropped out, but even when he was still in contention I never had the attitude that I wouldn't vote for Obama or Dodd or Biden or Richardson if they won the nomination.

However, because of the fact that I entered the race as ABC and said I probably would not support her if she won, it was commonly said that people like me are misogynists, which I find quite outrageous and offensive considering that I donated to Tammy Baldwin and worked pretty hard in two elections for Nancy Boyda.

So I can see that the accusation that Obama-haters are racist can be just as ridiculous as the similar claim that Hillary-haters are misogynists, but it is not the same as the claim that Hillary supporters are racists, only the claim that some of them are.

[galaxy21]

38. But the Clinton's have been race baiting....

Or did you miss that 'white americans' remark?

[madrchsod]

60. democrats that won`t vote for obama will be offset

by republicans who will vote for barack and ron paul.

[Zhade]

67. They are.

NT!

[NJSecularist]

71. This is why many Hillary supporters will not vote for Obama. n/t

[Zhade]

102. Exactly - because the clintons' race-baiting works on such fools.

NT!

[GOPBasher]

70. It doesn't seem to me that he's run a dirty campaign, and

I pretty much think the same of Hillary. The ONLY time I got upset with Hillary is when she said, "I have years of experience, McCain has years of experience, and Obama has a speech he gave in 2002." I think that put McCain over Obama. That was the ONLY time I got upset with her. Other than that, I think she's run an honorable campaign.

What was it about Obama's campaign that upset you?

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. Identity politics.

A significant proportion of voters chose Obama because he's a minority and it's time to elect a minority.
A significant proportion of voters chose Hillary because she's a woman and it's time to elect a woman.

If that is your paradigm, it's easy to rationalize the idea that those who voted against your candidate did so because they are racist or misogynist. Who wants to associate with them? This is the downside of playing the race/gender card.

I prefer Hillary because she has better policy and more relevant experience. I don't really dislike Obama, and I think he'd be infinitely better than McCain. Sadly, because of my avatar, a significant minority of Obama supporters frankly, openly and explicitly accuse me of being a racist. If I am forced to support Obama, I'll do so despite these followers - understanding that they are just an asshole minority of DU'ers.

The big risk isn't so much one of "die-hard, lifelong Democrats" voting for McCain, but staying home and not voting for the downticket races.

[BlooInBloo]

42. Obama has proven that his coattails get Democrats elected, while running candidates report that...

Clinton is killing them.

So much for that worry.

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. "proven" how?

The result of this campaign will be grievous harm to the downticket races, no matter who wins. Personally, I think the harm is greater in swing districts if Obama wins, but as I noted upthread, it's not one of my reasons for preferring Hillary.

[BlooInBloo]

52. By getting 2 new Dems elected.

[madrchsod]

75. well since i live in the illinois 14th that had a special election

where obama cut ads for foster and the grassroots dems in the eastern counties got out enough democrats to win the election. hillary did nothing to help foster get elected---nothing. now it looks like in november we will be more organized and will be able to keep the district blue...


here`s your proof....i live in the 14th and i live in ronny reagan`s hometown which has foster`s office..ya a democrat in my town for the first time in over 30 years.....

[eridani]

113. Christine Gregoire is one of the world's lousiest campaigners

However, she does a pretty good job at actually holding office as Washington State's governor. A poor campaigner needs coattails. Her endorsement--Obama.

[wileedog]

69. 35 million Dems voted just in the Primaries so far

That's almost a slow General Election figure.

Turnout will not be an issue. You have an electorate where 81% are polling as thinking the country is out of whack. While I think the Repubs have a serious problem with Conservatives who utterly despise McCain staying home, I don't see how Dems and Independents who are clearly fed up with the current direction in historical levels stay home just because Hillary is not on the ticket.

These arguments are fine for 1992 or 2000. This is a pissed off electorate now in 2008, with a younger generation upcoming that is involved again.

[Mezzo]

36. Harry and Louise. Ohio. Obama. GOP dirty tricks. really.

[anonymous171]

44. Seriously, can you give me a link on that?

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. Five sentences in a subject line. How does one do that and still remain entirely inexplicable? n/t

[boppers]

51. Ah, Harry and Louise.

A couple discussing positions.

Has the whole party put a moratorium on couples discussing their positions, now?

:eyes:

[Pushed To The Left]

41. I don't think Zell Miller would vote for Obama either. Anybody who won't vote for Obama against

McCain is probably no more progressive than Miller. Every single one of our candidates who ran in 2008 is 10 times better for the country than McCain or any of the Republicans.

[eridani]

115. Indeed. It really didn't look much like a presidential campaign on the other side

It looked more like a traveling insane asylum talent night act.

[madrchsod]

56. our best friend -a life long democratic

said she could`t vote for obama because of wright..yet she hates the republicans...she`ll hold her nose and vote for barack

[zulchzulu]

57. Frankly, I don't care about these people. There are enough new voters to prove...

...that they are REAL Democrats.

Democrats who say they won't vote for Obama ARE NOT DEMOCRATS... they can go fuck themselves.

Good riddance to them all...

[crankychatter]

61. There are no Democrats that will not vote for Obama

it's a media myth

those swearing holy oaths are not Democrats... they will either come around or eventually register with the Party of their choice

it is a non-issue in my estimation

[Zhade]

62. But the same person would vote for the candidate that lied about Tuzla and NAFTA?

Yeah, okay. That's sane.

:sarcasm:

[2rth2pwr]

74. Anyone who says that has to be a racist.

[GarbagemanLB]

77. No, just selfish and stupid.

Some Obama supporters on a random website were mean to me! That is reason enough to help elect McCain (by not voting for Obama) and fuck protecting the Supreme Court!

My feelings have been hurt!!!!

[GOPBasher]

78. I'm just wondering about Hillary voters who are saying this,

so I can begin to make an argument for my candidate. I'm going to try to get Clinton voters to vote for my candidate. I think if we're united in November, we'll crush McCain. If we're divided, we lose.

[Erin Elizabeth]

81. I honestly don't think, in a lot of cases, that it's so much

this HUGE objection TO Obama, but it's a HUGE disappointment that their candidate isn't the nominee. I think there was a feeling that she would DEFINITELY have this (well, I know that was a factor, for Hillary and for her supporters)and that she EARNED it.

In primaries past, loads of people have had to deal with the disappointment (for me it was Dean in 2004, it's Kucinich for me every time, too). But with Hillary it seems to be a "my candidate or nothing" mentality that I've honestly never seen before. It's very fatalistic.

If McSame is elected because they couldn't get over their disappointment, I'll never forget it.

[hulka38]

85. Hillary's vote for the Iraq War proves she was against it and Barack's anti-war speech doesn't

mean anything since he wasn't in the U.S. Senate at the time. See? And I'm not confused. You are.

[anonymous171]

88. Yeah, I am confused. She votes for it which means she voted against it?

That's a real winner right there.

[Jennicut]

90. Anyone who says this ceases to be a Democrat. Time to give the membership up.

Anyone who voted for Nader in 2000 will tell any Dem who says "I won't vote for Obama" that things really turned out great after deciding not to vote for Al Gore. Peachy. All we got was two wars, a Whitehouse who ignored a terrorist threat, Katrina, an out of control deficit, programs like NCLB that don't work, the economy in the toilet, gas prices and food prices that are out of control, a supreme court with two more idiots on it, personal freedoms chipped away. Need I go on? Didn't think so. Vote Dem or stop being one.

[dchill]

91. Who was that die-hard, lifelong Democrat?

Nellie Oleson?

http://www.hgd.com/alison/

;)

[Thrill]

92. Its funny. Because he hasn't even run a mean nasty campaign against Hillary

I could understand this tone if he used some of the garbage the Repukes use against the CLintons. He's been classy. Which tells you its about his race with these people

[AZBlue]

95. No one who actually takes the time to post here and be informed about our country's

situation now is stupid enough to vote for McCain. Emotions are running high, but in the end they won't do it - it's too far beneath them.

[Catherine Vincent]

99. Probably some of his supporters and the way they behaved.

On DU and off.

[Marie26]

103. It's not so much Obama

as his supporters & the media that are pissing off many Clinton supporters.

[iamthebandfanman]

106. they are bitter

someone didnt ever teach them how to lose gracefully.

[TexasObserver]

108. we're never going to get the racists

there are many old Americans who simply cannot get past their racist foundations

[VotesForWomen]

114. yawn. all white people who don't vote for Obama are racists... that's gonna go over great in the GE

[Prophet 451]

116. Four reasons

In no particular order:

- Most are just hurting that their candidate lost. Give them a little time and patience and they'll come around.

- Some (hopefully, only a few) really are racist.

- The conviction that Obama will lose in November. This is somewhat tied to the one below and frankly, baffles me. You think Obama will lose so you stay home, thus contributing to his loss?

- And then there are the Hillbots, those who treat politics as a cult of personality. Now, Obama has a fair few of these too but since we're talking about Hillbots ("bot" is an adjective I use to seperate the majority of normal, sensible supporters from the nutcases), many of them seem to be living in cloud-cuckoo land. They make accusations that the Obama campaign has said everyone not voting for him is racist (something I've never seen), accuse Obama of being an arrogant egomaniac (something that pplies to virtually all politicans, if we're being honest) and then bring in the smears about elitism, anti-semitism, etc. Oh, and they're often obsessed with what Wright said (and I still think going nuts about his words are an indication of nationalism, not patriotism). Essentially, it's the same kind of assassination by constant smear that was used on Bill Clinton for much of the nineties. Essentially, it was supposed to be Hillary's turn, she'd been a fairly decent senator (although they often forget that was always seen as a stepping stone to a presidential run) and how dare Obama not wait his turn!

Again, it must be said that Obama has his share of bots as well and I've slammed them just as hard on several occasions but this thread was about Hillary supporters so...

[JCMach1]

117. Don't say we didn't warn you... while my loyalty to the nominee

goes beyond even some very huge issues with the candidate, Obama's candidacy has turned what should have been a cakewalk into a very hard sell indeed.

Obama is losing/has lost the Clinton democrats.

I don't think he can make up enough votes from Repugs, Indys and new voters to make large dent in that.

That means the election is going to be too damn close in a year we should win it running away.

[Perry Logan]

119. Would YOU vote for a candidate whose fans called you and your candidate a scoundrel and a racist?

[Tyler Durden]

122. Thank you Perry.

"You and your candidate are the scum of the earth. Now that we've voided two states and painted all of you as racists and dirty players, KNEEL and support our prophet."

Somehow, that just doesn't work for me.

[GarbagemanLB]

129. I would vote for a candidate based on THEIR WORDS. THEIR ACTIONS. THEIR POSITIONS. Not some random

supporters on a fucking INTERNET FORUM.


Jesus christ.

There are just some Hillary fans on this board with bruised egos who can't get the bigger picture. Supreme Court? Roe v. Wade? More Scalias on the court? Fuck it! Some internet posters were MEAN to me!

[Lerkfish]

120. here's an analysis

if you view politics as a spectrum, with batshit crazy Conservatives on one side, and treehugging LIberals on the other side, then we should have realized this would happen.
all along, DLC supporters were telling us the rest of were too "left wing" and "looney" and calling themselves "centrists". What they meant by centrists is that they were smack dab on the dividing line between liberal and conservative. Oh, sure they tried to tell us "centrist" meant in the middle of the democratic side, but that wasn't accurate.

Democratic "centrists" and Republican "moderates" have one hair's breadth between them. Meaning, it takes very little for a "centrist" to switch to vote republican, and very little for a "moderate" to switch to vote democratic.

The ironic thing is that Obama wasn't that far to the left of the centrists originally, but as Clinton identified herself more and more crossing over to the republican side in policy and tactics as the campaign wore on, and Obama tracked further left by opposing torture and other things, "centrists" have to vote as they truly are: one hair's breadth away from republicans.

[LWolf]

125. Are you sure it was a Hillary supporter?

That's something I've noticed. Obama supporters seem to think that every person that doesn't support Obama must support HRC.

There are plenty of us who don't like either one of them.

I'm 48 years old and have been voting for democrats for president at every opportunity for 30 years. I don't want to vote for Obama in November, and I'm not a supporter of HRC.

If you REALLY want to know why I don't want to vote for him, here are a few of the reasons:

I don't like his positions on any of my key issues. It feels like a loss to me, to sit a Democratic President who would rather work with republicans on their agenda than with the left wing of his own party.

I'm a teacher, and his positions on public education guarantee my non-support. I will not cast a vote for someone who favors right-wing weapons of public ed destruction like merit pay, charter schools, and other forms of privatization.

I don't like the way he campaigns on "hope" and "change" while offering no substance for REAL hope and change.

His campaign sounds and feels like preaching to me, with the congregation shouting "amen" to what he says, regardless of whether or not what he says is empty, substantive, or worthy of agreement.

I don't like his too-cozy relationship with organized religion.

I don't like his allowing homophobes to campaign for him.

I don't like his financial connections.

I don't like some of his political past.

I REALLY don't like his constant repetition of "I was against the war from the beginning" bullshit, based on a speech, but not on later remarks, and not on his votes to fund it when he got to the Senate.

I have substantive reasons for not wanting to vote for him. I DIDN'T vote for him when I filled out my primary ballot yesterday. I'll make a decision about the GE after the convention.

Will I be able to hold my nose, again, or not? I don't know. I don't even know that I care, at this point. I haven't had any hope for a good outcome in November since January.

It's not race. If I don't vote for the nominee in November, I'll be voting for a black woman who I can support with real enthusiasm. I'm sorry she's not a Democrat anymore. With that vote, I'll negate the ugly race and gender wars fought within the party, and vote for someone I would actually like to see in office.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

130. Maybe You Could've Saved Yourself From The Melodrama By Like, Actually, Ya Know, Asking THEM?

:eyes: