Let’s face it, a lot of the country will still not vote for a Black Man!

[KansasVoter]

OK, people hate to say it or admit it, but a lot of people in this country still will not vote for a black man. You know it and I know it and the American people know it.

Sure there are sexists. I know a bunch of them and they are idiots. But the difference is this: Every sexist knows a woman, his sister, his wife, Etc. And every sexist knows an older white woman. His MOM! So sure, there are people who would not vote for a woman for president. But it depends on what the OTHER choice is!!! A lot of people do not personally know a black person. Or hang out with any black people. So while they might not be 100% happy voting for a woman, at least they know women.

I know racists. And there are different levels of racists. The KKK would be a 10 and a person who thinks that blacks are lazy might be a 3. And a person who would not vote for a black man as president might be a 3. No one would ever admit they are racist, but you can tell by the way they address certain issues that they are. I have a lot of old high school buddies who are level 2 or 3 racists. And I guarantee these guys would not vote for Obama. But none of them think they are racists. They think they are being honest about blacks.

And I guarantee there are people who are not racists at all who don’t like Obama. There is nothing at all wrong with that. I am not a sexist at all, and supported and donated money to Katherine Sebelius in Kansas, but still do not like Hillary. So all of the voters who don’t like Obama are not racists, but I think a lot of them are.

The one telling item to me is that the support Hillary has is soft support. Obama is bringing in crowds of 5,000 to 10,000 people consistently. Hillary is not drawing the same number of people. But their support is almost the same, about 50%-50%. Same with campaign donations, Obama is raising twice the money as Hillary. If their base is both about 50% then why is Hillary not raising the same amount of money? Small donations from a lot of donors are just not there for Hillary. I think it is because a lot of votes for Hillary is a vote against Obama. They just can’t vote for a black man but are not enamored enough by Hillary to support her or attend her speeches. They are also not enamored enough with Hillary to caucus for her, because it is a lot more work than just voting.

So it comes down to this. I am sorry, but I think a lot of voters are saying these things:

“There is no way I am supporting that Harvard educated black man, who in the hell does he think he is”.
“My tax dollars probably paid for his education”
“He is sure uppity for a black man”
“All he is going to do is give blacks all of the tax dollars and just help them not us white people”
“After he is elected, Jesse Jackson will live in the White House”
“If I can’t be president then no way will I vote for a black man”
And the list could go on forever.

So West Virginia and Kentucky will not vote for Obama because I honestly think they have a lot more issues with blacks than other states do. Maybe it is how they were raised. I don’t care, it is still an issue in this country and no one wants to admit it.

So the main question is this, are the racist people in the country a good enough reason not to nominate Obama? My answer is NO, because he is leading in delegates and that is what the rules of the primary was based on. But even if running Obama meant losing the election because of racists, I think Obama has earned this nomination. And the most important reason is because it is the RIGHT damn thing to do. How are the closet racists ever going to begin to change their point of view if we don’t ever run a black man who deserves it? Maybe they will see him and change their mind about race. How will the kids of today break their parents mold and change their view if they never see a black man run for president?

I think the Democratic Party will be a better party if Obama runs for president. It will fundamentally change how race is looked at in this country. It is worth the risk!!

[dchill]

1. But a bigger lot of it will!

:shrug:

[Hestia]

23. Exactly - instead of fretting over Republican talking points - via the meme

that no one will vote for the black guy, it's the rest of the country who would/will vote a black guy that we need to reach, which Senator Obama is doing now, hammering away, stating that McCain is running for Bush's 3rd term. Very effective.

Just a POV here - if people really don't vote for Obama because of race, then we really need to quit talking about The American Dream - unless it is only for white people. It's rather sad that the most qualified person in this race is discounted because his race. That being so, then there isn't a dream, just slavery to the man.

[roguevalley]

60. he's destroying that behavior. there are pockets of out and out

racism but a lot of change has happened I am proud to see.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. This is our chance to get beyond racism

and the Civil War.

[Triana]

54. Damn right. And we BETTER NOT BLOW IT either! Heck, this is the best chance...

..to win an election Dems have had in decades (ie: because of bu$hit's unpopularity and the bad economy, energy prices, environment, Iraq, etc. etc.).

THEN there's the chance to get beyond the racism, too. Not to mention Obama is an exceptional candidate for change and progress.

[BOSSHOG]

3. I'd never vote for Alan Keyes

But I will vote for whomever the democratic party nominates as I have for more then 30 years. And I will do so despite the daily sack of garbage and ugliness dumped on DU by Obama supporters and their incessant need to spew shit.

[movonne]

15. You are right is a way...but I really think that the spew of shit goes

both ways...I really think it is time to stop...I find myself doing the same thing when someone puts my candidate down and I really am trying to stop this useless gotcha mentality..

[BOSSHOG]

18. I think its fair to say

that the Obama crowd wins by volume (both noise and quantity.) My "candidate" has been General Clark all along but I will be the loyal democrat come November. I can't imagine anyone who cares about our country doing anything else.

[Erin Elizabeth]

4. I dunno.

I have an old high school friend who was notoriously Republican for a long time. This bush fucked up presidency has pretty much cured him of that. Then he watched Obama speak. And it was all over. He still won't call himself a Democrat, but he's voting for Obama, and happily. He's white, in his 40s, lives in Waco, Texas (hello, conservative town!), Christian, four kids. And he LOVES Obama.

And you know he talks about Obama to others he knows who consider themselves Republican.

If guys like THAT are going to vote for Obama, I have a lot of hope.

[Tesha]

12. It's an interesting question: Are there more disaffected Republicans or "Democratic" racists?

I very anxiously await the November answer to that question.

Tesha

[Catherine Vincent]

5. Let's just wait and see how this ends.

These days, you never know. He may be the first.

[baldguy]

6. The 5%ers

The people Hillary has been pandering to.

[L0oniX]

7. But he's not black ...he's an American !

[tledford]

8. But there will be ENOUGH white voters casting ballots for Obama...

...in the GE to push him to a win against McCain. If he can get 36% of the white vote in NC (and he did), then I'm encouraged.

[electron_blue]

9. I disagree. I don't think it's "a lot" at all.

I think it's a very small percentage who won't vote for a man bcs he's black.

[KansasVoter]

11. In WV??? Really.

[electron_blue]

14. I was answering the OP, which used the term "country". As for WV, I don't know what

the stats are. I'll stick to national averages and I think the amt of people who will refuse to vote for a man bcs he's black - nationally - are small and will not affect this election. Esp when you consider the small percentage of people who will vote for Obama solely bcs he's black.

[wvbygod]

31. I think WV has no more racists than Kansas does

Really. Claiming they do does not make it so.

[Bullet1987]

10. Yes, we still have racists in this country...this only comes as a shock to

White people though (those who have never met a racist person and thinks it's a figment of Hollywood movies and unrealistic of modern America). They think movies like Crash are unrealistic because "people aren't that racist." I'm serious, read some of the old internet opinions on Crash.

[Supersedeas]

57. so the current shock and dismay is what....a white thang?

[Egnever]

13. Yup there are still a lot of americans that wont

But theres a whole lot more that will.

[Bake]

35. We won't really know that until this fall, will we?

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding.

Bake

[ClassWarrior]

16. True, but a lot of the people who will... who will CRAVE being able to do so...

...are people who haven't voted before, and people who haven't voted for a long time, and people who haven't voted for a Dem for a long time. And that's potentially massive.

NGU.

[endarkenment]

17. Lets face it, a lot of the country will still not vote for a Democrat.

I think we can scratch 30% of the likely voters and just hand them over to the Rethuglicans. They just aren't going to vote Democratic. Not now. Not any time soon. By an odd coincidence there are approximately another 30% of the likely voters who aren't going to vote Rethuglican. Not now. Not any time soon.

Then there is that other 40%. They are what the game is all about. Plus I made those numbers up. The real swing, the voters who are actually in play, are perhaps 10-15% of the likely voters.

[graycem]

19. I think

that open minded people now outnumber the racists in this country. If they didn't, I find it difficult to believe he'd of gotten this far.

[grasswire]

20. I was with you until you got to this point:

"But even if running Obama meant losing the election because of racists, I think Obama has earned this nomination. And the most important reason is because it is the RIGHT damn thing to do. How are the closet racists ever going to begin to change their point of view if we don’t ever run a black man who deserves it? "

At this point you are running a principle, not a person, for president. You switch from advocating the person who is the right fit for the job to advocating the nannying of the electorate to do what you think is the "right damn thing."

I oppose that kind of thinking. I oppose telling voters to pull that lever for the purpose of broad social engineering rather than to pick the person with the right resume for the world's most difficult job.

And no, Hillary is not my candidate. I just feel very strongly about social guilt or shame being left out of electioneering.

[The Traveler]

21. I am now convinced Obama is the right person

for these times.

If the Democratic Party over turns his victory in order to pander to racists, I cannot support the Democratic Party.

Obama was not my first choice. I would have preferred Edwards. I have no great emotional investment in his candidacy ... I am a relative late comer to his camp. And if Hillary had beaten him cleanly ... if she has Obama's numbers now ... I would support her without regret.

But I will NOT continue to support a Party that dumps its front runner just because of the color of his skin. If that happens, I'm out. Standing by principle is more important than victory ... for if one must shed principle to win, then victory is meaningless.

[Harry Monroe]

22. We are at a crossroads in this country

And I don't get how people are still hung up on race. Some people will NEVER vote for a black person, male or female. Obama is a better choice than McCain period. Yet it is sad that we have not come that far in this country yet for people to see this.

I had an illuminating discussion with an old high school friend of mine. When his little daughter was born, the conversation turned to her future etc. and the topic turned to dating and how protective he would be. Somehow, the conversation also turned to race and dating and I posed the question to him about the race of his daughter's eventual husband. I asked him would he prefer his daughter marry a black or white man. White was his reply, of course (This is a lifelong friend and I knew he grew up with bigotry and prejudice in his household). I then asked him would he prefer his daughter marry a sucessful, Harvard educated black man or a trailer trash, Confederate flag waving gaptoothed uneducated, unemployed white man. His answer was still the white man!! I was floored and astounded that he was so bigoted and racially ignorant.

The point being is that there is no changing some people and if Obama doesn't win after all the excitement and hope he has built up, I don't think any black person will ever win in this country until attitudes are changed. And the catch 22 of it all is that attitudes about voting in a black person as president will never happen unless an African American wins the presidency. Hopefully Obama will get past these obstacles and bullshit and win the general election so we can begin to change the paradigm. People will never look past race and see the most qualified person until this happens.

[Kokonoe]

24. Who is this A. Black Man.

Barack Obama is the democratic nominee, and everyone is very impressed by him.

We need to stop talking about him as if he is something anonymous.

People will decide based on who we can trust to change the direction.

[Two Americas]

25. if

If the campaign fights for the downtrodden, the left behind and abused, the poor and homeless, the marginally employed and suffering people, if the campaign fights for the have-nots and takes on corporate power, race will not be an issue. If on the other hand the campaign is nuanced and subtle, professorial and academic, a celebration of the enlightened and progressive minority and their "values" then all of the right wing themes will hit home, including "elitist" and race and class resentments.

The things Obama has been saying and doing have been very effective in the primaries, but the same things will be poison in the general. We shall see if he shifts gears and re-focuses now. There is so much momentum now in the "progressive" direction, it may not be possible.

[BlooInBloo]

26. Yup.

[Beacool]

27. I think that Begala is correct.

He was on the radio recently and said that in his opinion the first AA president would be elected in only two ways:

1- If the person had the heft of experience of a Colin Powell.

2- If this person was first a vice president, which would enable people to familiarize themselves with him.

[endarkenment]

36. I think begala is a clinton campaign operative uttering campaign talking points

But that is just my opinion, as Begala's utterances are just his opinion. We are going to find out if Barack Obama, not a discredited war criminal like Colin Powell, can get himself elected, as he is our candidate. Time to get on board.

[Beacool]

39. Colin Powell a discredited war criminal???

No wonder you support Obama!!! Too funny........

I wouldn't vote for Colin Powell if he ran for president because he's a Republican, but he has infinite more experience than Obama and is a far better man than him.

As for Begala, he didn't mean that it literally had to be Colin Powell, he just meant someone with that level of experience and not a rookie.

[endarkenment]

41. Yes a discredited war criminal.

Too funny! Flat out lying to the United Nations. Knowing full well that the 'case for war' was complete bullshit. Going along anyway. Fully participating in the conspiracy to commit our republic to a war of aggression, an act for which we executed some of the leaders of Germany and Japan after WWII.

No Begala meant Colin Powell, the DLC faction has wet dreams over a Powell-lead unity ticket.

[frickaline]

42. really? So when Colin lied to your face, you respected that? nt

[Beacool]

44. I respect Powell much more than I respect Obama.

Not that I would vote for the man if he ran for office since he's a Republican.

[Toucano]

50. Bite your tongue. n-t

[progressoid]

58. Good caveat...

"Not that I would vote for the man if he ran for office since he's a Republican.

Good thing you threw that in there. Don't want to get banned for supporting a Repub over a Dem right? :eyes:

[NorthernSpy]

45. Hillary has never been VP, nor has she the "heft of experience of a Colin Powell"...

Of course, she's not black either, so I'm not surprised that she has fewer hoops to jumps through.

[jeffrey_X]

59. And that's truly a fucking shame.

eom

[izquierdista]

28. Pick one

Elitist? maybe to some people <---------------------------------------> Elitist? NOT!

Somehow, I don't think picking who is less elite is such a good criterion... :shrug:

[chitty]

29. I Think It's Time.......

that some Americans need to wake up and realize that black folks are not going away.

I repeat - Black Folks Are Not Going Away!

Get over it.

We have a candidate that can inspire black & white people equally.

Let's give him a chance for Christ's sake.

[RethugAssKicker]

30. You're unfortunately right.... however lets just hope

enough will.

Its scary though....If the race is so tight between Democrats..and 70% of HRC supporters say they will support McCain if Obama is nominee....SHIT.. how is Obama going to do with the rest (Rethugs and independents???)

[Traction311]

32. Sure they will, just not Obama

Independents and some Hillary supporters who won't vote for Obama would vote for Harold Ford, Jr. in a nanosecond.

[NorthernSpy]

49. No, they won't. They'll say they will, but in the end they'll always find a reason not to.

When people say, "I won't vote for Obama, but I would vote for (acceptable black man) in a heartbeat," they're trying to portray themselves as more reasonable than they actually are. When Acceptable Black Man stands for election, they'll soon find their rationale for backing away from him too ("...but of course I would vote for Latest Acceptable Black Man in a heartbeat!")


As far as these people are concerned, we should not waste much time appealing to them.

[Traction311]

63. Well, the hardcore racists will never vote for a black person

But they probably would never vote for any Democrat. I'm talking about white swing voters, people who sometimes vote Republican, sometimes Democrat. I think they could vote for a black candidate, even if they are slightly prejudice. However, many won't vote for a black candidate who goes to a black church. It's sad, but true. Obama may be too black for these undecideds. Harrold Ford Jr. could have pulled it off. To these people (not to me, I'm just going by what I hear), he is more one of them. In other words, he's precieved to act whiter.

[yardwork]

33. "How are the closet racists ever going to begin to change their point of view..."

That's exactly the point. If the country had waited for southern states to eliminate Jim Crow, it wouldn't have happened. Sometimes, progressive thinkers have to take the initiative even when some people aren't ready. Some people are cowardly weasels who will never do the right thing unless they are forced to go along. We can't wait around for cowardly weasels to get over their fear.

"Either lead, follow, or get out of the way."

The same goes for gay rights, by the way.

[DeschutesRiver]

34. Of course we should put up a black nominee

if he wins the primaries (which he has).

What would have happened if this logic - the country isn't ready for blacks to do anything yet - had prevailed around the time of the Civil Rights Movement? Man, it was like the freaking dark ages to look back at that time I was born into, and realize even how much worse it was for the generation before me.

I think we are way past that now - and if not, I'd rather find out than not even participate in the game. I do disagree on one point - I firmly believe that those same people will not vote for the woman candidate either. Sure, a racist will say black vs. white - vote white. Then comes the GE? Man vs. woman - vote man.

And besides, I'd like to continue the progress towards marginalizing the opinions people who make an issue of race solely in everything they do. I'd like to eventually see them in such a minority themselves that they have to travel far and wide just to find those of their kind. That's how I'm feeling, after all this race crap has come up time and again in the recent weeks.

[PVnRT]

37. And they live mostly in states no Dem can win

So, it's a wash.

[stillcool]

38. Hillary's Last Stand?

[IsItJustMe]

40. Yep, there are. They are called Republicans.

[StrictlyRockers]

43. Your thinking is outmoded and I don't think you're right.

It may be that this is the feeling you get from talking to people in your community. In my community, I do occasionally hear this sentiment, but I think it is fading fast. I think he can win. I think he will win. I think he must win.

SR

[CaptJasHook]

46. Thanks for the CONCERN. Yeah I like to live by fear, not hope.

[TZ]

47. Really?

So what were all those votes in Indiana (home of the KKK) for Obama? Aliens?Virgina? North Carolina?
Yeah sure. The same people who wouldn't vote for Obama cause he's black probably weren't gonna vote for a democrat anyway. I don't sweat it.

[Auntie Bush]

48. You are really good with projecting!

"There is no way I am supporting that Harvard educated black man, who in the hell does he think he is”.
“My tax dollars probably paid for his education”
“He is sure uppity for a black man”
“All he is going to do is give blacks all of the tax dollars and just help them not us white people”
“After he is elected, Jesse Jackson will live in the White House”
“If I can’t be president then no way will I vote for a black man”
And the list could go on forever. "

This looks like a list you copied from another place...not your personal observations You are just drumming up racial issues.

I've never heard those comments or thinking. You are projecting your own bias hatred. Posts like this don't help heal racial problems.

An observation I've had....... Many Obama supporters post race related posts exclusively. Seems that is all they have on their minds. I wish the vote for President was for the one they felt was best to hold the presidential office, run this country, pass Democratic issues and get things done in Washington. Instead many people here are only considering race. They are the ones who are racist! If Whites are racist because they won't vote for Obama...then blacks are also racist for voting for Obama because he's black. Racism works both ways you know.

[mikelgb]

51. even black sexists have white moms?

[Triana]

52. HELL NO. Because some people are racist is NOT a good reason not to nominate Obama

He's a fantastic candidate and it's time for this racist shit to CHANGE. That's what he's about and he can't make the changes ALONE. If a small percentage of the U.S. wants to continue to be racist - fine, but the REST OF US have to MOVE FORWARD - dragging them along behind if necessary but we've got to MOVE FORWARD - that's what progress IS. This is how we evolve as humans. WE HAVE TO LEAD the rest. SOMEBODY has to lead the rest.

SOMEBODY is US.

DAMN THE RACISTS! FULL SPEED AHEAD! Obama is the FACE of CHANGE. Half-black, half-white, he IS US.

If we leave him behind because of his skin and a few people who don't like it - we leave OURSELVES behind. Are we going to NOT evolve because of a few racists?


We'd have the SAME fight if Hillary was the nominee (except it'd be sexism instead).

I'm sorry, but I'm appalled that this question is even ASKED.

[nichomachus]

53. Then, we've got our work cut out -- we just need to work harder

and not sit around moaning about what some people will do or not do

[HereSince1628]

55. How much is "a lot?" n/t

[kentuck]

56. And a lot of people will not vote for any Republican....

or any Democrat....or any woman...or anybody with a funny name. Remember "Dukakis doesn't even sound American"?

[MNDemNY]

61. Great, the "high horse" to defeat.

[eridani]

62. And racists are also misogynists, 100% of the time n/t