Cobb bar protested as racist for Obama T-shirts (poll on the left too)

[skipos]

Mulligan's selling shirts with 'Curious George' picture

By CHRISTIAN BOONE
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 05/13/08

Marietta tavern owner Mike Norman says the T-shirts he's peddling, featuring cartoon chimp Curious George peeling a banana, with "Obama in '08" scrolled underneath, are "cute." But to a coalition of critics, the shirts are an insulting exploitation of racial stereotypes from generations past.

"It's time to put an end to this," said Rich Pellegrino, a Mableton resident and director of the Cobb-Cherokee Immigrant Alliance. It was among the organizations planning to gather outside Mulligan's Bar and Grill Tuesday afternoon to protest the "racist and highly offensive" shirts.

"There's no place for these views, not in this day and age," he said.

Just down the street from Marietta's famous Big Chicken, Mulligan's has carved a provocative niche in an increasingly multicultural area, thanks to its owner's ultra-conservative political views. If you live in Marietta, it's impossible not to know what's on Norman's mind, as he posts his views on signs in front of Mulligan's.

Among his recent musings: "I wish Hillary had married OJ," "No habla espanol — and never will" and the standard "I.N.S. Agents eat free."

"I'm saying out loud what everyone in this town whispers," Norman said.

more...
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/cobb/stories/2008/05/13/mulligans_0514.html

[gabby garcia]

1. what a dick.

[DarienComp]

2. "I'm saying out loud what everyone in this town whispers."

What, "I'm an asshole"?

[nxylas]

10. LOL

:spank:

[Clark2008]

3. Hmmm... I thought InCurious George was already taken

as the iconic symbol or our current presinut.

[lligrd]

6. My Thoughts Exactly nt

[DangerousRhythm]

4. I hope the Curious George people...

...sue his ass off. Ugh.

[LowerManhattanite]

5. There was a tombstoned poster who used to like posting “Curious George” pics

...when commenting about Obama.

Real card, that one.

Lamented? Not one bit.

[Freedom Train]

7. But comparing Bush to a chimp is A-OK, isn't it?

For instance, nobody has missed this I presume:



If you laughed at this, isn't it hypocritical to condemn the same kind of montage but with Bush's picture replaced by Obama's?

Conclusion: Either condemn the Bush/Chimp comparisons or allow Obama/Chimp comparisons as well.

What's it gonna be?

[EFerrari]

8. I always thought comparing Bush to a chimp was insulting

to all the greater apes.

[SoonerPride]

9. As long as I can compare Hillary to a witch.

How does that sit with you?

[NashVegas]

12. We've Pretty Much Gotten Used to It

You've been sitting in a zone where race-based attacks against Obama have not been permitted - while sex based attacks on Clinton were, if they were subtle enough. Outside of this world it's open season.

[nxylas]

11. Yes because there's a long history of Connecticut bluebloods being compared to apes

Thus justifying their enslavement and lynching on the grounds that they're not really human.

[Freedom Train]

15. But Obama is half white,

and his ancestors weren't slaves either. The Africans ancestors on his father's side were of Arabic descent (thus the Hussein middle name), and were most likely slave traders themselves.

No, I tend to view the chimp comparisons as predominantly a slam on intellectual capacity. In any case, they make for poor, cheap and low-brow political discourse and should not have been used against Bush either.

[cali]

18. Ack. Wow. "The African ancestors on his father's side were of Arabic descent". bzzzt.

They were not. The come from a distinct African tribal group. And it's unlikely that they were slave traders, but so the fuck what if they were? What does that have to do with anything? Furthermore, Obama, walking down any street in this country, would be seen as a black man. It's that simple. And he identifies as a black man, though he's certainly open and affirmative about his white heritage and family.

Your post is reprehensible.

[Freedom Train]

23. Yes, so the fuck what if they were?

Wouldn't bother me none. Just like it doesn't bother me that most of the Founding Fathers owned slaves either.

But what you're saying is that chimp comparisons are ok for white people, but not for blacks. Isn't that kind of differentiation in itself inherently racist? You see, I'm SO not racist that I don't even make that distinction.

Reprehensible? Yeah well, tell it to someone who cares.

[Occam Bandage]

28. "Isn't that kind of differentiation in itself inherently racist?"

Yes, but not for the reason that you're implying. There is a long history in this nation of dehumanizing blacks by comparing them to apes and monkeys--and as a result, such comparisons cannot be anything but offensive today. You cannot simply insist that stereotypes be taken in a vacuum devoid of context, citing only your ignorance of that context.

[hisownpetard]

106. Truly insightful comment, well put!

:applause: :yourock:

[cali]

33. I'm saying you're pulling crap out of thin air and claiming it as fact

I'm saying that you made up the shit about Obama's ancestry being Arabic. I'm saying there's a long and ugly history of white people comparing black people to apes, and thus not fully human as a justification to murder and enslave and oppress them. I'm saying there is NO comparable history of blacks doing the same to whites. I'm not justifying the bush=chimp comparsions though they are obviously not as offensive due to the FACTS I've brought to your attention.

And I have not even hinted that you are a racist in any way. Interesting that you want to make the claim that I have.

[Freedom Train]

40. I haven't made up anything about his ancestry

You are either being an ignoramus or are deliberately trying to hide the facts, for unknown reasons.

[cali]

49. Sorry, the Luo tribe is not remotely Arabic, dear.

I'd suggest that a glimpse in the mirror would give you a definitive look at an ignoramus.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

69. "Does not compute, weird names being thrown in here. Information overload,

Hussein has to be an arab.....bzzzzzt"

[Freedom Train]

99. Again, from Kenneth Lamb's research:

http://kennethelamb.blogspot.com/2008/02/barak-obama-questions-about-ethnic.html

Here is the truth about Mr. Obama's name, and his father's ancestors:

True Negro tribal members of western Kenya where his father was born have Christian names, not Arabic. His father's decision to name him with an Arabic name is a matter of his father establishing his ethnic identity in Africa - it is done deliberately to separate him from the African tribes. He may live among them, but he is not one of them. His father's message is that he is Arabic, not Negro.

Many will find these truths unsettling. I'm often asked, "But I thought his father was Kenyan. How could Mr. Obama not be African-American, how could his ethnic composition be so Arabic?"

The definitive clue to that answer is to look at his name, his father's name, and the names of all his ancestors on his father's side. They are all Arabic.

Researching his roots reveal that on his father's side, he is descended from Arab slave traders. They operated under an extended grant from Queen Victoria, who gave them the right to continue the slave trade in exchange for helping the British defeat the Madhi Army in southern Sudan and the Upper Nile region.

[Occam Bandage]

101. And again, he doesn't source anything. He simply claims "I have secret evidence

that Obama is descended from Arabs," ignoring the fact that the Luo people have absolutely no Arab connections. Here, I can do it too:

"According to my research, John McCain is secretly a white supremacist. If you disbelieve me, look at the neo-Nazi records yourself."

[Occam Bandage]

50. Sure you have. You've claimed he has Arabic ancestry. He doesn't; he's a Luo, which

have no ethnolinguistic ties to the Afro-Asiatic (sometimes called Hamito-Semitic) group.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

53. Hey

moron, there isn't a history in this country or anywhere in the world of people comparing whites to apes because of their race. You seriously can't be this stupid. Or can you?

[Aloha Spirit]

42. The only reason someone would write that is if they have been indoctrinated by some pretty unsavory

internet sites.
I guess that's what the ignore feature is for though?
Thanks for carrying the torch of reason, cali!

[cali]

52. thanks. it's frustrating to see this kind of ignorant, right wing bullshit

pushed here.

[SoonerPride]

58. Until admin tombstones these trolls, I move em to ignoreland.

You have more patience than I do.

[LowerManhattanite]

64. And he'll get one, too. n/t

[GoneOffShore]

87. That one's been there for a long time.

:rofl:

[cali]

13. Are you really that igorant of the ugly racist history behind comparing

black people to apes? How sad. That's why your comparison is utterly spurious. Learn a little history before self-righteously lecturing.

[Freedom Train]

16. #15 goes for you too

I enjoy having you follow me around like a dog on a leash though. Expect to see you soon again, 'cause you know, the Ignore feature just isn't my style.

[cali]

19. so now, you're comparing me to a dog on a leash?

YOu don't deal well with being called on your ridiculous bullshit.

[Freedom Train]

26. You are the one prone to serving up ridiculous bullshit

The dog on a leash reference isn't racist, is it? Because you never know with Obama supporters, they'll find a way to paint most everything you do and say as racist unless you agree that their Dear Leader is the Anointed One.

[cali]

30. YOU are the one that made the bullshit claim that Obama is of Arabic descent.

Patently ridiculous and WRONG. You are the one that tried to claim his ancestors were slave traders on his father's side with no evidence whatsoever. And I didn't say that your vile little dog on a leash quip was racist. It's simply nasty and stupid. Furthermore, I see Obama as flawed but miles better than hillykins. You've made bullshit false claims. I called you on them and too bad that you don't like it and can't handle it.

[SoonerPride]

32. Anyone that posts "Anointed One" gets ignored forever.

He was voted on by millions not "anointed" by fucking anyone.

I plonk those trolls off my screen forever. Nothing good can come with arguing with a hateful sore loser.

[cali]

34. Maybe. But I'm unwilling to let someone make the lying claims

that Obama isn't really of African descent but Arabic descent, and that his ancestors were slave traders.

[Freedom Train]

37. Arab African descent. Truth, not lies. Deal with it.

Why are you embarrassed about it?

[Occam Bandage]

39. No. He is a Luo, which are not ethnically related to Arabs at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luo_%28family_of_ethnic_groups%29

[Freedom Train]

73. Then why were Obama Sr. officially classified Arab African by the Kenyan gvt?

:shrug:

I take it you are familiar with these claims?

http://kennethelamb.blogspot.com/2008/02/barak-obama-questions-about-ethnic.html

In any case, Obama is more Caucasian than anything.

[Occam Bandage]

77. Well, looking at that completely unsourced blog post ,

I'm not given a whole lot to go on, and a Google search gives me nothing but links to that blog. What is the Kenyan government's classification system? How are people classified? Does it look at tribal identity, at region, at current culture, at ancestry? If you intend to go against everything that has ever been published about the Luo people, you're going to need more than one blog post making the bizarre assertion that Obama is not "legally African-American."

Frankly, I doubt that entire claim, as I can find no references to anything but that one blog post anywhere on the internet.

[Freedom Train]

96. You may contact Mr. lamb himself for documentation:

Again, everything in this article is documented, and I can get with your choice of researchers to have them document my documentation.

Also, the reactions in this thread has certainly served to drive home another point he makes:

Nobody can dare speak against Sen. Obama without generating at least a flickering flame of doubt about his or her own sanity – not to mention the knee-jerk reaction that questioning him is indicative of some deep, dark, racist agenda spurring those questions on.

[Occam Bandage]

98. Anyone can "claim documentation." There are no other references to this *anywhere.*

Seriously. Shouldn't you be able to find some claim that the Luo are Arabic anywhere? The Luo are the third-largest ethnic group in Kenya. Don't you think that some scholar somewhere might have noticed an Arab link?

[cali]

43. Nope. His ancestry is the Luo tribe of Kenya- not Arabic

And I'm not at all embarassed of his ancestry or his middle name. I just hate stupid, false bullshit.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

70. Come on be a man and back up your statement. In other words you should deal with it. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

75. Look. It's TRUTH. Never mind that it goes against everything

that is known about his ancestry, about the Luo tribe, about the Sudanic people, about the Arabic people, and about ethnolinguistics. It's truth, goddamn it. And you--you can't handle it.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

76. OK I'm now convinced. I think Barack Obama is a secret Arab-Muslim. A kind of

"Syrian candidate" if you will.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

46. LOL! kind of fun seeing your nonsense blown out of the water.

still want to claim he's of Arabic descent? Go for it.

[Freedom Train]

91. Yes, I do. Watch me:

I claim he's of Caucasian, African, and Arab African descent.

Why are you so afraid that it might be true? Do you find Arabs scary? A little bigoted towards them maybe?

[Occam Bandage]

94. It's not a matter of fear it might be true. It's a matter of knowledge that it is not.

Why are you insistent on pushing a line which has been debunked before your eyes?

[LowerManhattanite]

105. FAREWELL, FREEDOM TRAIN...

...thou hast puffed thy last cloud of steaming bigotry.

[muryan]

71. You also apparently can't read

Or have some other glaring mental defect.

[Freedom Train]

92. An Obamite resorting to insults?

The novelty value in that expired long ago.

[muryan]

112. As has the novelty of spreading some unfounded rumor

only to disappear in a wisp of smoke when proved wrong numerous times. Your inability to admit fault is paramount to my post. Also, who I endorse has nothing to do with my ability to point out your fault.

[Freedom Train]

36. I said they were "most likely" slave traders

Though the claim is somewhat circumstantial, many Arab Africans were. And yes, he has Arab African lineage, but you are the one trying to make this out to be a bad thing. I don't see it much differently than his Irish American ditto.

[Occam Bandage]

44. The Luo are Nilo-Saharan. Obama has no Arab lineage.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

60. But you see Hussein is an Arabic name. Therefore anybody with that name

must be an A-rab or something weird like that. Just like anybody named Arthur has to be welsh. :sarcasm:

[Occam Bandage]

62. Bill Cosby speaks English and is named "William." Therefore, he is an Englishman of Norman descent.

[SoonerPride]

65. I notice "ignored" hasn't bothered to admit it is a dumbass

No surprise there.

[cali]

68. He's fled rather than admit he was wrong.

How courageous.

[Occam Bandage]

78. Nah. #73; he's now scrounging unsourced blogs claiming that Obama

is "not sufficiently Negro to earn classification under American law as an African-American," and citing "the Kenyan records" which apparently only he has access to.

[SoonerPride]

81. Wonder if this same person wrote those unsourced blogs? Linking to himself?

It might be a conspiracy of one.

Regardless, opinion is one thing.

Stupid is another.

I don't have time for stupid.

[Freedom Train]

90. I am not Kenneth Lamb, no

Published by journalist, op-ed columnist, radio news-interview program host, Kenneth E. Lamb.

[Occam Bandage]

93. Have you found any evidence of "the Kenyan records" calling Mr. Obama an Arab yet?

[cali]

82. yeah, but you can tell he's giving up the ghost

his claims are mere whimpers now.

[H2O Man]

95. Thank you, cali.

What you have done on this thread is most appreciated.

[cali]

110. Thanks Waterman, but the person who reallly deserves credit in

in this thread is Occam's bandage.

[Freedom Train]

97. Yawn.

I must pause very briefly to note usage of the word Negro in what follows: In all academic studies of race, the proper scientific word for the ethnic composition I discuss is Negro. For any who scream racist at its mention, I say take it up with the scientific community. It's not my word, it's theirs. I am using it in its proper scientific context.

You are free to travel to Kenya and look at those very same records.

[Occam Bandage]

100. "In all academic studies of race."

First, there are no academic studies of race. "Race" is an outmoded concept that has been abandoned a half-century ago. It now exists purely as a sociological construct, not as a scientific classification.

Second, the word "Negro" has not been in common use in African studies in decades. It's simply useless; there are far, far too many ethnolinguistic groups for that word to have any common meaning. He's exposing his ignorance of modern ethnology, not demonstrating his competence. (And to claim that any "science" is involved smacks of Victorian eugenics, not modern anthropology).

[Freedom Train]

102. Tell it to Mr. Lamb

I'm sure his address is on the blog.

[Occam Bandage]

103. Why? He's a two-bit fundie talk-show host. I'm sure he doesn't give a shit about reality.

Not sure why you're holding him up as some sort of authority. The dude's never been published, except in a few local non-regular, non-syndicated opinion pieces, and excepting his brief stint as a one-city fundie talk-show host. He has no credentials. He is not an authority in anything. He is a pompous jackass with a blog, an ego, and a computer-repair shop.

[LowerManhattanite]

104. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...

...our “Freedom Train” has derailed and exploded in a noxious cloud of methane. :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=217182

[Occam Bandage]

107. Thanks for the notice. This one was too easy.

[muryan]

113. Saw that coming

:toast:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

66. I'm glad you over-sensitive bastards are starting to get it.

:evilgrin:

[marylanddem]

14. Great compilation! Thanks for making me laugh. But...

I am guessing you're doing a tongue-in-cheek number about the Obama thing, right?

[Occam Bandage]

20. Are you actually ignorant of the long and vile history of comparing blacks with apes and monkeys?

[demwing]

21. Not the same thing, and you know it

Bush/Chimp comparisons come easily, because the man looks like a freaking chimp. His facial features, expressions, and blank stare remind us of a primate. The Curious George comparison is even more fitting, because the name directly relates, and the adjective fits like a glove.

Now, please explain to me how Barack Obama looks like a chimp...

[Freedom Train]

24. I never really saw the Bush/Chimp similarity

Explain to you how Obama looks like a chimp? I'm not touching that one with a 10-foot pole.

[Occam Bandage]

31. "Explain to you how Obama looks like a chimp? I'm not touching that one with a 10-foot pole."

Of course you won't. The reasons Obama "looks like a chimp" are bound to be the same reasons any person of African descent "looks like a monkey/gorilla/ape/chimp" to people meaning to dehumanize them. One can't answer that question without citing features particular to his African heritage--his skin color, his hair, his nose, his ears. One therefore can't answer the question without implying that blacks are ape-like.

[demwing]

35. You never saw the Bush Chimp similarity?

Right...

And I'm glad you're not touching my question. You weren't meant to answer it. It was asked so that you might be directed to consider how disingenuous your previous post sounded to the majority of us.

Thanks for helping.

[awoke_in_2003]

48. "I never really saw the Bush/Chimp similarity"

Your own words from post #15

"I tend to view the chimp comparisons as predominantly a slam on intellectual capacity"

How you cannot see the similarity with what you said and Bush is beyond me.

[Greenwood]

25. GREAT POST! I salute you.....

If it is wrong one time in one case it is wrong in any case.

Standing ovation to you!

[truebrit71]

29. ...and another rocket scientist chimes in....

...:eyes:

[awoke_in_2003]

51. Hey now

I am studying to be a rocket scientist (aerospace engineering major)- please don't disparage all of us :)

[truebrit71]

56. Sorry!!! ROFL!!

:rofl:

[awoke_in_2003]

59. No problems

Just trying to get another DUzy:) enjoy your day :hi:

[GoneOffShore]

88. A weight lifting one too.

:eyes:

This whole thread is great for my Ignore list.

Lift rock, find ugliness.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

61. I salute your stupidity. n/t

[Faygo Kid]

109. You'll have to look down at his grave to salute him now.

I wonder what kind of salute you would use?

Anyway, say goodbye to your hero.

[truebrit71]

27. Wow...that's a SPECIAL kind of stupid....

...or are you COMPLETELY missing the point on purpose?

[awoke_in_2003]

54. Thanks for the great line:

"that's a SPECIAL kind of stupid". Mind if I steal it?

[truebrit71]

55. Knock yourself out!

...

[Shakespeare]

84. You took the exact words right out of my mouth.

Seconded.

[LowerManhattanite]

45. You know what?...

I actually can't tell if you're being intentionally dim here or are actually not cognizant of long-standing, historical comparisons of African Americans to simians.

Waitaminute. With one more read, I can see where you're coming from. Exactly where.

You seem to want to throw out ALL of the known, historical, sub-human “creature from darkest Africa” stereotyping in an affort to make what appears top be a context-free point about it being okay for Obama to be mocked the same way as Bush is.

Blue-blooded , silver-spooned Mainers of practically royal lineage are not mocked as “chimps” because of their race. When ONE is, like President Bush who you are defending, it is because of his less-than-fully-evolved intelligence level. He IS IN FACT QUITE A SIMPLETON.

Comparing a random African American you know nothing of (or condoning it) save for his achievements and academic brilliance TO A MONKEY, as many racists have for as long as there has been American racism is exactly what it appears to be.

You can gussy it up in faux-egalitarian “good for the goose, good for the gander” BS, but we all see it for what it is.

You want an opportunity to get your racist little digs in without the worry of being called on it.

Well Mr. “What's the diff”, show how much the “maverick” and equal-opportunity zinger you are.

“Man up.” Run your own comparative of Obama and a monkey and defend it as “Well, Bush got it too.” on this board or any other progressive board.

Show the courage of your “I'm about fairness” convictions.

You won't. Because you know the difference between the two, and getting tombstoned from here would prevent you from continuing with your puerile, race-baiting drivel.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

80. This Is The Most Stupid Excuse For Blatant Racism I've Ever Seen.

Jesus christ try and take your head out of your ass sometime.

[Warren DeMontague]

115. Can I compare you to a frozen pizza?

Bye Bye, Lardass.

[Joe the Revelator]

17. I live in Marietta and this place is nowhere near as backwoods as this guy makes it sound

With that said, I miss Virginia.

[yourguide]

22. BS - I grew up in the hell hole next door known as mableton...

and it is indeed every bit as bad as that.

[Joe the Revelator]

41. Then you havn't been many places I guess. Do you still live in Mabelton?

If not, when did you leave and where do you live now?

[yourguide]

47. left in 1993. live in NY.

[Joe the Revelator]

57. Well there you go. Marietta, and by extension places like Smyrna and even Mabelton

Aren't the same as when you were here, just like my hometown is much different then when I left it.

[yourguide]

63. My family still lives there.

I go home once a year. For the most part Marietta/Smyrna is just a bunch of rednecks with a little more money than the WV folk.

It looks nicer, it feels more affluent, but the racism and bigotry is still prevalent down there.

[Joe the Revelator]

67. My family still lives in my home town, and I go back every three months...

It doesn't mean I still have the pulse of the area, espessially if I had moved to a different region of the country 25 years ago.

[yourguide]

79. I moved to a different region of the country 15 years ago. Not 25.

And it doesnt mean when I'm home I dont go to the mall, or to a bar, or see my family's friends, or see my old friends...I think all of those things still give you a sense of what the community is like.

When people keep saying the same garbage regardless of how old the face is, it's pretty clear there is still a problem down there.

It has gotten better certainly, but it's still pretty bad. Not the least bit surprised to see that tee shirt coming out of there...are you?

[SparkyMac]

72. I dated a girl who lived in Mableton. A long time ago

Small world, isn't it ?

[yourguide]

85. Hahahahaha.

Really small world...mableton was a really really really small town a long time ago.

[BlooInBloo]

74. America makes me so proud sometimes!

:rofl:

[helderheid]

83. DU THE POLL

What do you think of the Obama T-shirt?

It's racist 45.91% 3102
It's fine 54.09% 3654

:mad:

[MagickMuffin]

111. Current Numbers

What do you think of the Obama T-shirt?

It's racist 48.56% 6035

It's fine 51.44% 6392


Come on DUers: GO VOTE

[truebrit71]

86. It would be a real shame if that place burned to the ground...

...with the racist, sexist asswipe owner inside...Oh, and to those that don't condone ill-wishes, "I'm just saying what everyone on DU is whispering"...

What a cowardly chicken-shit asswipe this guy is...

I sincerely hope he meets the business end of an industrial-sized ass kicking soon...

[frickaline]

89. I suppose you'd get hungry after throwing up so much at all the signage

maybe that's his strategy?

:puke:

[Faygo Kid]

108. I hope the Muscular Dystrophy Assn. throws the money back in his face.

They should not accept the proceeds from the sales. And they should reject them publicly. If they do, they will make hundreds of times more by standing up for what is right and decent.

[sofa king]

114. It's racist to compare Obama to Bush?

Yeah, I'm sure someone's already said this, but I want to say it, too.

[Warren DeMontague]

116. Ick.

Someone should alert the Secret Service about that OJ thing.. is it me, or does that sound like some kind of veiled threat?

...What is it with right-wingers and the barely sublimated violence they seem to have seething beneath the surface?

Anyway, what a shmuck. I hope his business dwindles away to nothing.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. Someone should sell shirts with a picture of Yosemite Sam fucking a Goat

and put "Mike Norman" underneath.

[Warren DeMontague]

118. "Curious George is a registered trademark of Houghton Mifflin Company."

Perhaps someone ought to contact their legal division.