Why are we committing so much attention to racism in this nation, and so little to sexism?

[Writer]

Just curious.

~Writer~

[slinkerwink]

1. Sexism is very prevalent, and I speak out against it when I see it

[bowens43]

2. what sexism?

are you talking about in the primary race?

[Writer]

4. In general as well as in this primary race. n/t

[Marrah_G]

3. Because sexism is a socially accepted norm. n/t

[frickaline]

23. I think this is the problem also. nt

[highplainsdem]

33. I agree that it is.

And that's been particularly obvious here at DU where Democrats who claim to be progressive see nothing wrong with calling Hillary "Hilldabeast" or a "harpy" or criticizing her appearance.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

62. So is racism, apparently. It just goes by other names these days.

But it's the same old thing it ever was.

[dansolo]

83. Then why isn't that an argument against Hillary's electability?

If Obama will have troubles because he is black, then why wouldn't Hillary have troubles because she is a woman, especially since sexism is such a "socially accepted norm"?

[mmonk]

5. The media has it reasons.

[Writer]

6. What are their reasons?

[mmonk]

57. Ratings

[PBS Poll-435]

7. Because racism is more pervasive than sexism around the world.

Remember?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5615495&mesg_id=5616542

[sandnsea]

8. "Vagina Voters For Hillary"

Is that the sexism you mean?

[LizW]

41. Ironically, yes. n/t

[Writer]

42. Actually there is some irony in that post.

I didn't notice that before.

[LizW]

54. ...

:evilgrin:

[sandnsea]

48. Hillary isn't going after the female vote?

purely to elect the first woman president?? And women aren't proclaiming it proudly, all across the country? While at the same time warning against electing the scary black man.

[SoCalDem]

89. or

[still_one]

9. Because a lot of it was propagated by Clinton

I have not heard Obama try to divide intentionally on gender issues, though I have heard the Clinton camp try to divide on racial grounds

[whatchamacallit]

10. When you can site a state which won't vote for Hillary because she's a woman, then we'll talk

[BlooInBloo]

11. I speak out when I see sex-based epithets used against Clinton...

But I haven't seen any "America won't vote for a woman" threads, or similar, so I just don't see the comparison to primary racism.

[JerseygirlCT]

74. I do too, Bloo.

And while I don't doubt there are some who won't vote for a woman, period, I do think the numbers who won't vote for an African American are larger. Problem is that polls won't ever show that.

[LiberalAndProud]

12. Because Hillary is polling well with the "blue collar men".

So where has sexism been manifested? Is it possible that sexism might play well for Hillary (I'm not voting for her, I'm voting for her husband) -- in the sense of the God-> Man-> Woman hierarchical thought process.

[cliffordu]

13. I guess the 40 years of feminist literature and the dialogue

some of us have had isn't enough.


I've got a novel idea:

Get those

"Teach him 10 hot sex things that'll blow your mind"

and

"Does this universe make my ass look huge"

magazines aimed at women off the grocery store shelves - you know, the ones that reinforce the error in thought that women are nothing more than vain, shallow trollops and want to be nothing more than spokesmodels for Tommy Hilfiger or Juicy, or some other mass market Chinese made clothes pimp, and then we'll talk.

As long as women are WILLFULLY reduced to what InStyle or Cosmopolitan or Glamour portray, I don't think they'll be taken as seriously as men.

Got my flamesuit on, go ahead.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

67. When my income and social status aren't DIRECTLY linked to those things, then we'll talk.

Really, until you have travelled a few miles in my high-heeled pumps, you really aren't qualified to make pronouncements on how I experience life as a woman.

[cliffordu]

76. And yet so many women are content to tell me how I should live my

life as a man.

My wife's income and social status are NOT linked to those things. She answers to no fashion magazine.

[hfojvt]

87. because they know what your life is like, dammit

floating through life on a cloud of male privilege, your feet never touch the ground and you never break a sweat as all the work is done by women who only make 63% of what a man makes and you spent most of your time watching porn or sports and drinking beer.

[dkf]

14. Racism is more malevolent than sexism.

People can decline to associate with a person because of race, but you rarely hear of men who hate being around women... Being a horny guy helps in that aspect.

[Writer]

17. But wait... hold on...

you said "being a horny guy helps." Isn't that an example of seeing her less as a person and more as a sex object?

[dkf]

47. I really don't think that matters in guy land. lol.

And I do think that every man likes being around a beautiful woman. I may be off base here but I don't think so.

Sexism as I see it is how a guy treats the females he is around, not that he shuns them, like true racists shun others of different race.

And when is the last time a person vandalized another's property simply because of their sex? Highly unlikely.

[vi5]

15. All I know is I know a lot of women......

who are voting for Hillary because "They want to see a woman president in their lifetime" even if when pressed they can't point out why she would be better than Obama at the job or what makes her more qualified.

Even when I was leaning Hillary early on it was as much because I wanted my daughter to see a woman president and not because I really liked Hillary or thought she was the most qualified.

So the gender bias does cut both ways on this thing and she's likely benefitted from it as much as she's hurt her. Same thing for race with Obama, no doubt.

[skipos]

21. Actually it isn't the same with Obama

Remember all the "is Obama black enough" debate a few months ago? Back when most blacks supported Hillary?

[skipos]

16. Has Obama claimed that Hillary can't win the GE because she won't win men?

If so, you'd probably hear a lot more about sexism.

[redqueen]

19. Seems very simple and obvious, doesn't it?

*sigh*

[Writer]

24. I think in Clinton's case, she wouldn't win conservative men AND women.

I think the idea of her as president rankles people of both genders in that mindset. Fundamentalism is the well-spring of sexism.

I have a fundamentalist Christian friend who believes firmly that men should lead. His wife happily adopts the same concept.

Oh... by the way... she's 29 and he's 31. These aren't old traditionalists.

[cliffordu]

38. I just threw up a little in my throat....jeesus.

[Writer]

39. My fundy friends?

[cliffordu]

43. Yeah....I belonged to the Pentacostal Church when I was young....

reminded me of some of the fundies I met there.....

[Writer]

49. They're not Pentacostal, if you can believe it.

They attend some local bible church.

My friend decided to start talking to his pastor some years ago about "what it means to be a man." At some point he concluded that men have lost much of their identity over the years, and therefore, men need to lead again. He started putting together this scenario for himself. He proposes to an old friend of his from back home (who came to similar views in her local fundie church.) During their preparation for their marriage, they adopted the logic that she would submit to him fully - that he would decide when to have children, money matters, etc., and that she would attend to their home.

Fast forward more than three years, and their home is a wreck. They're so busy with church activities that it's almost impossible to see them, and when we do see them, she isn't exactly the kindest "Christian" woman I've ever met. She's snarky and judgmental, and at times spending time with them has been unpleasant. Unfortunately, work stress has caused my friend to back away from his own personal education goals that I think he hoped would improve his work situation in the future (that part is no fault of his own), but the point is that the utopian belief system they developed has not meshed with reality. They've lightened up on the concept a bit, but I can see how their lack of flexibility has damaged them. She refuses to work (she thinks that's not her place), staying at home to attend to a few personal projects. My friend's company has not been raising their employees' salaries, so his already high salary is suffering from inflation and rising gas prices.

I really do feel for them, because my husband and I always kept apart from their lifestyle decisions. They're friends, after all. However, the more I see this situation, the more I see how a narrow mindset such as this can be so hurtful. I worry about my friend, especially considering his work stress. It's not fair to him, and with a wife who refuses to work or contribute much more than sitting at home and baking cookies (literally), the stress of the responsibility he has must be overbearing. I'm sure his church is a support to them, but I do hope they can make the right changes to adjust to the reality of modern American life. Or at least something that suits them.

[cliffordu]

55. I've heard of variations on this "what it means to be a man"

before - I think the most recent excess in this matter was a 'movement' called 'The Promise keepers" which on it's surface seemed to be a pretty good idea - beneath, not so much.

There was some faction of this that had fathers giving rings to their daughters as surrogates for wedding rings for a while too....the implication being that the daughter would "be married" to dad until the real hubby came along.....a metaphor for being married to Christ, or some crap.....

I knew some of those "Left Behind" dominionists, too but they were so scary I lost track of them on purpose....

Religious extremists of any stripe scare the hell out of me...(LOL)......

[Occam Bandage]

18. When you read media reports of voters saying "I'll never vote for a woman," then we'll talk.

[highplainsdem]

30. Google "never vote for a woman" -- like that, in quotes to get the phrase --

and see what turns up.

It's a very real prejudice against women, and a number of polls have shown there's more prejudice against a woman running for president than a black man running for president.

[Occam Bandage]

31. Actually, that doesn't at all help OP's point, since every single one of those

is a discussion on sexism in this country. None are, as in recent media reports from WV, voters declaring their prejudice openly and smugly.

[Nederland]

20. I hear about the sexism in this race all the time

Certainly it's pointed out all the time on DU, and in the major media we've got people like Cokie Roberts mentioning it...

[ampad]

22. LOL, here we go again

Waaaaaaaaaaaaa sexism exist dammit pay attention or else. It amazes me how people don't seem see the big difference between racism and sexism both historically and currently. The way some of you equate them as if they are the same; as if the discrimination is on the same level or equivalent is hilarious. I guess you would have to deal with both (as some of us have) to really understand. It must be really nice to only have to deal with one issue and then put that issue on a pedestal whenever things don't go your way. I wish I had the luxury of picking and choosing.

Oh for the record: The suffrage movement didn't do much for black woman as black women where still expected to take the back seat to white women and nothing much has changed. Just saying.

[JuniperLea]

27. WTF?

Respect the hate toward me but I'll shit on the hate toward you?

Nice. That will garner a lot of sympathy to your cause.

:eyes:

[Raineyb]

78. Way to not pay attention

You did at least look up her profile and see that she's female before dropping that bomb right?

You just made ampad's point.

Your attitude is typical of white feminists. They are so quick to tell women of color that their womanhood should trump their race while completely ignoring the issues women of color bring up and then wonder why women of color are not so quick to side with them.

Personally, I'd much rather be called a bitch than the "n" word.

That would be Ms. Bitch to them.

Regards

[frickaline]

35. "Waaaaaaaaaaaaa sexism exist dammit pay attention or else"

Did you really just post that? Speaking out against sexism is "crying" and "attention seeking" not to mention baseless according to your post. Nice.

If that's not sexism, I don't know what is.

[LiberalAndProud]

40. Is it a question of which "ism" trumps?

How do you know if you're dealing with a racist, a misogynist or a racist misogynist? I had always thought that we were dealing with mostly the same voter block in this election -- the ones who won't vote for any black man OR any woman. It just seems like a marriageable mindset. It is interesting to note which "ism" trumps in WV.

[Occam Bandage]

25. I've often stated that minority-interest group relations are often seen as zero-sum.

This OP is a great example. The mere existence of people advocating for a different minority interest seems to threaten the OP, despite the two interests having no mutual exclusivity.

[rucky]

32. that's the biggest barrier to progress right there

and Jesse Jackson realized that when he formed the Rainbow Coalition.

[merh]

50. I just don't get it

How is it one minority is more important than another? I've always been of the thought that if you lift up one group of people, if you fight for equality for all people, you are fighting for all minorities, including women. You can't leave out one minority while advocating for another, they share the same goals.

It's like a superiority of a minority thing that definitely does reflect any type of equality mindset.

[JerseygirlCT]

75. Yes! Thank you!

That's a losing proposition every time - looking at this as zero sum.

[TahitiNut]

26. I'm sure Geraldine Ferraro would claim Hillary has an advantage in votes due to her gender.

Oh. Wait. :eyes:

[Guava Jelly]

28. Go make me a sandwich woman!!!

:hide: :yoiks: :sarcasm: oh and :loveya:

[rucky]

29. More attention to equality covers both. n/t

[last1standing]

34. I'd say it's because the media has hyped the "WV is racist" angle.

And many people are buying into it. But it does still exist and we should be calling out racism whenever we see it, even here at DU.

Sexism, homophobia, hatred of overweight people, fear of special needs, etc... it all still exists and none of it gets the attention it deserves. Too many people are willing to denigrate people different from themselves for a quick rush of superiority.

How many times to we hear a woman called a bitch or hear comments about how ugly they are here at DU? How often do fat jokes get chuckles instead of reprimands? I'm sure you can find a thread on DU right now where someone hopes that some right wing criminal gets raped by other men in jail. As for special needs, those comments are everywhere.

The saddest thing is that too often when these comments are pointed out it's the non-offensive person who gets taken to task for not having a sense of humor or for being the PC Police. We're told to lighten up.

Anyway, yeah there's a lot of talk about racism right now, and rightly so, but I'd like to see the day when we start shining a light on all the other examples of hatred that affect our society - and DU.

[Emillereid]

36. I have found it curious that in poll after poll questions are asked about the

willingness to vote for a black person, but not for a woman. There are always those who say they would never vote for a black person, but are there people who would never vote for a woman? If so, why is the question not asked? It makes one think that racism is playing a greater role in this election than sexism no matter how much Gloria Steinem bellows about sexism being the more prevalent bigotry. I am a white woman and in my lifetime I have witnessed racism as the greater evil by far and this election seems to bear that out. Democrats should not sanction this or celebrate Hillary's ability to garner ' white blue collar voters' (code for 'I will not vote for a black person'). An historical footnote - when Humphrey was told by a supporter in the 1960 campaign that 'I am voting for you because I could never vote for a catholic,' he responded that he did not want the fellow's support if it was based on bigotry. I sure wish Hillary would do the same.

[Writer]

37. A CBS poll from this year found otherwise

A recent CBS poll found that gender, not race, may be the bigger obstacle for American voters.

39% of those who responded to the poll believe a female candidate "faces more obstacles in presidential politics today," compared to 33% who believed a black candidate did. Meanwhile, 42% of voters believed Clinton has been "judged more harshly" because of her gender (compared to 27% who said the same thing about Obama and race). And 45% of those surveyed believed that most people they knew would refuse to vote for a woman candidate (compared to 33% who believed most people they know would refuse to vote for a black candidate).

Nearly 1/5 of those surveyed (including 16% of women) said they would "prefer to vote for a man" than a woman, compared to just five percent who said they???d prefer to vote for a white candidate. Despite all that, just ten percent believed that sexism was "a bigger problem" than racism in America.

[Emillereid]

46. But there is no poll I've read that indicated women did not vote for Hillary because she is a woman.

Voters might prefer a man, might think gender is a factor - but whether it determined their vote? Doesn't look like it - she's getting the 'male blue collar' vote who would normally be as sexist as you can get - but it's clear that their racism is even stronger.

[Writer]

52. Actually its in the same poll.

"Nearly 1/5 of those surveyed (including 16% of women) said they would "prefer to vote for a man" than a woman, compared to just five percent who said they???d prefer to vote for a white candidate."

[Emillereid]

51. But there is no poll I've read that indicated women did not vote for Hillary because she is a woman.

Voters might prefer a man, might think gender is a factor - but whether it determined their vote? Doesn't look like it - she's getting the 'male blue collar' vote that would normally be as sexist as you can get - but it's clear that their racism is even stronger.

[Forkboy]

44. I see plenty of people talking about both.

Sadly, a lot of it is just hyperbole by both sides, and as I said months ago, there's been so many cries of racism and sexism that didn't exist that when we see the real thing rear it's ugly head we assume that's just bullshit too. I've seen both sexism and racism decried here, and I've seen both defended here.

My biggest fear has come to pass, and we now have a battle of which is more prevalent, or whether women or African Americans have been treated worse. The fact is that both are far too prevalent in our society, and a race with a black man and a woman was bound to bring it out, and it's revealed a dark underbelly of America.

[shaniqua6392]

45. Because Americans are far more ready to vote for a black MAN

than they are for any woman. Sexism is an accepted practice in America. How many times have you heard that old story about how women only earn 60 cents for every dollar a man earns? No one ever does a damn thing about it. But if blacks earned less just because they were black, everyone would be screaming. We have come a long way baby, but not far enough.

[newmajority]

53. Maybe because Obama never put an inflated importance on some backwoods state

where the voters said "I AIN'T NEVER VOTIN' FOR NO GODDAMN WOMAN!!1111!!!!"

Mostly because he wouldn't want to claim that sort of "victory", but also because no such state exists.

[damntexdem]

56. We have quite-correctly committed much attention to both.

But we need to commit much, much more attention to both.

[EmilyAnne]

58. I haven't heard anyone say that the United States is just not ready for a female president.

I haven't heard anyone say that, "I'm not sexist, but I just don't think a woman can lead this country."

I haven't heard anyone say that they are afraid that a female president will appoint too many females to positions of authority over men.

I haven't heard anyone say that if a woman is elected president, she will give too much power to women and they will get to do whatever they want.

I haven't heard anyone refer to Hillary Clinton as an affirmative action candidate or that the only reason she has gotten so far is because she is a woman.

Both sexism and racism are still problems in this country and, as a Democrat, I believe that I am a member of the political party that has the best chance at defeating them.

Still, if it seems that we are focusing more attention on racism than sexism at the moment, it is only because racism seems to be a much bigger problem in this particular primary. Don't derive a bigger meaning from it, please. We're all on the same side of the fight for equal rights for ALL Americans.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

59. Because if people can express racism so blatantly, when we thought it had become impolitic to do so

Then we women are really screwn. :(

[EFerrari]

60. Because one campaign says we're not ready for a black president

but the opposing campaign is not saying we're won't vote for a woman.

[carolinayellowdog]

61. Your premise is false n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

63. BTW, not all women are white, nor all black people male. Just saying. nt

[mythyc]

64. you're right; we should pay more attention to sexism and less to racism

ever heard of one of these? :

[Laura PourMeADrink]

65. All the men voted for a woman tonight. Doesn't look like

there is a sexism problem. Although, Chuck Todd did a study on the subject - in the
more progressive states, the electorate was more likely to vote for a black man than
a women (based on a study of past elections).

It looks like the opposite is true in the less progressive states where there
is a relatively low African American population. They will pick a woman over
a black man.

[mythyc]

66. you're right; we should pay more attention to sexism and less to racism

ever heard of one of these? :

[swishyfeet]

68. Our friends in WV don't seem to be skeert of the women nt

[bigwillq]

69. Or homophobia

:shrug:

[Writer]

77. Good point. n/t

[grannylib]

70. While I firmly believe that sexism exists just as racism exists,

I don't see it as an issue in this campaign. My issues with Senator Clinton have nothing to do with her being female; I was and am excited about the candidacy of a woman for the presidency. But she and her supporters have tried to use racism, purportedly as an "issue" to make an issue of "unelectability" which is crock
Obama has never questioned her ability to be CIC, and certainly not because she's female; I've heard precious few comments from anyone anywhere about her ability to do the job, but I have heard a lot about "are we ready to elect an African American." I do think racism is the larger problem overall.

[OzarkDem]

71. Good point

Don your flamesuit! Most Obama supporters have a real double standard when it comes to other forms of discrimination.

[Withywindle]

72. Because racism affects MEN, silly! n/t

[dcindian]

73. Because the tone of the discussion was set by Hillary and MSM

Perhaps you should ask them?

[Jamastiene]

79. Having female apologist 0bots just emboldens the misogynists.

Any excuse they can use to explain away their violent wishes against a woman, they will use and there are women* who will defend their violent* wishes right* here on DU*. The fact is that some women are enablers for that kind of violent behavior.

The fact that these women feel the need to step in and defend men who are wishing violent harm to come to women is something I see as THE BIGGEST OBSTACLE to an end to sexism and misogyny.

I place the blame for violence perpetrated against women squarely in the hands of the men who do it and the women who enable and embolden them by encouraging that violence.

*Let me count the ways I have seen sexism expressed and women defending it right here on DU:
:redbox: wishing to behead a woman
:redbox: wishes to kill(euthanasia, horse reference)
:redbox: caricaturizations of a woman being bound, gagged, burned and tortured
:redbox: calling a woman bitch, cunt, whore, and other demeaning language used to belittle women
:redbox: claiming they hate her because she reminds them of their mother (This was the clincher, believe it or not. Who knew so many men hated their mothers so much? I sure didn't.)

[mrreowwr_kittty]

81. I know I'm on your ignore list but fuck you anyway.

I guess you "enable racism" since some Clinton supporters are nasty bigots, huh?

[amandabeech]

80. What about "classism?"

It's alive and well on DU every day, but today it seems particularly pernicious.

"Ageism" is also popular.

I certainly hope that DU is not what the Democratic Party will become.

[crimsonblue]

82. You're right..

women voted against Barack because he's a man. It makes perfect sense now!

[eridani]

84. Sexists and racists are the same people

They wouldn't vote for either candidate in the GE.

[indimuse]

85. sexism is more personal..

It can happen even in your own home...daily! Your brother...father...husband..It doesn't have to be LOUD and In your Face..But it's there...sometimes. I don't think an AA at home, with his or her family, throw racist comments back and forth.

[unlawflcombatnt]

86. Because playing the race card helps Obama

And addressing sexism does not.

And since Investment banks, globalists, open-borders advocates, Corporate America, and the mainstream media are all in love with Obama, discussion of the legitimate claims of sexism are excluded, while the false claims of racism have become the rate, since it plays well for the Great One.

So the overt sexism toward Hilary Clinton is ignored, while the phony claims of racism are pushed to the forefront by Obama and his cult.

[ShortnFiery]

88. Because first and foremost HRC is "a Clinton" ... there has been little sexism because she's

considered "political royalty."

Even NOW we have to "let her down easy" because she doesn't realize that the game is over. Too much power and privilege over the past couple of decades has made BOTH Clintons profoundly "delusional." I honestly believe that they still believe that they OWN The Democratic Party. :crazy: