The Official DU "Dream Ticket" Poll

[democrattotheend]

Poll question: The Official DU "Dream Ticket" Poll

I have really mixed feelings about the idea of an Obama-Clinton ticket, so I thought I'd test out some of my theories here.

My thoughts:

If she had won North Carolina and they were at essentially a stalemate, with him having more delegates but her winning all the later contests, I think a Clinton/Obama ticket would have made a lot of sense.

But I am not sure the other way around makes as much sense. A lot of people see Obama as inspiring but inexperienced, and wonder if he is ready to be president. Clinton is seen as a policy wonk who has experience in the White House (though not on national security issues) and has a strong following but high negatives as well. I am not sure putting her on the ticket does much for the perception that Obama is inexperienced. Even though she's been winning the white working class vote for the most part, I am not sure that having her on the ticket would make people who can't bring themselves to vote for a black man any more willing to do so. Also, putting her on the ticket might drive away some support among independents and disgruntled Republicans.

On the other hand, she has a strong following, and putting her on the ticket might help to mollify some of her committed supporters. I know a few weeks ago, when it looked like Clinton might end up being the nominee after all, I felt that I would have a hard time voting for her, but if Obama were on the ticket it would be a no brainer. So I imagine it might be the same way for some Clinton supporters, particularly older women who may feel slighted.

Of course, these are just the electability considerations. There's also the question of whether or not she could play second fiddle as a VP candidate and as VP without undermining him, intentionally or not. Beyond the question of what role Bill would play, they'd have to see if they could agree on strategy and priorities for the campaign and the presidency, or if she is willing to go along with his judgment if she doesn't agree. I don't think they had that rough of a relationship before the past few months, so hopefully they could get along well enough to work together.

I know DU is hardly representative of the general public but I still thought this might be interesting. So please vote in the poll below, and feel free to comment. If I don't include an option for you post a comment.

Note: This poll assumes that Obama becomes the nominee, which I am not taking as a given yet. So if you are a Clinton supporter who is still holding out hope, good for you, and view this poll as a hypothetical, what you would do IF Obama is the nominee.

Comments welcome. I know there are other threads about the merits of a joint ticket, but I'd love to hear some intelligent arguments for or against here.

P.S. Someone please say something outrageous so this poll will get a lot of responses and a lot of people will vote in the poll.

[democrattotheend]

1. On edit

Just wanted to clarify that this poll assumes that Obama becomes the nominee, which I am not taking as a given yet. So if you are a Clinton supporter who is still holding out hope, good for you, and view this poll as a hypothetical, what you would do IF Obama is the nominee.

[marylanddem]

2. I believe that thousands of Hillary voters were

in reality Republicans who crossed over or loyal Democrats who will support the Democratic ticket with or without her. The white racists who support her over Obama will vote for McCain in the fall. She is too polarizing & has dissed Obama way too much to be considered for the ticket.

[democrattotheend]

3. I agree with you about the racists

But I think there may be some older women who feel slighted and would be more likely to vote for Obama if Hillary is on the ticket. But I'm curious how that balances out with Republicans and independents who might be less likely to vote for Obama if Clinton is on the ticket. I hope they do some polling soon of an Obama/Clinton ticket matched up against McCain.

[MattBaggins]

18. Or if the DNC and candidates would release what they have

Someone has to have already polled this.

[democrattotheend]

4. Someone please say something offensive

So that this thread gets a lot of hits and I don't have to keep bumping it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. I'm more anti-Clinton than pro-Obama.

In fact, the reason I'll probably hold my nose and vote for the moderate Obama is because he's not a Clinton.

[Onlooker]

6. Ten reasons why Obama should choose Clinton

First, he can largely freeze her out of the administration is she doesn't cooperate. Vice Presidents have very little power.

Second, if he doesn't choose a woman, McCain will, and that will steal a lot of the thunder from Obama and the theme of change, and also be very tempting to some women.

Third, choosing Clinton pretty much heals the divisions in the Democratic Party, allowing Obama to focus on McCain and making it more difficult for Republicans to play on our divisions.

Fourth, Clinton connects very well with some key constituencies, including Latinos, gays, Jews, the elderly, and poor whites.

Fifth, she and her husband have a lot of know how in how to deal with the Republican machine.

Sixth, it gives in access to an organization and fundraising machine that is second to only his own.

Seven, Clinton is better connected than he is to many statewide Democratic parties, which are crucial in get-out-the-vote efforts.

Eight, Clinton is extremely well spoken and effective. That means we'll have two candidates who are better spoken than McCain.

Nine, If Obama's first term is rocky, it's less likely that Clinton will run against him in 2012 if she's VP.

Ten, she brings with her a liberal voting record and experience to that will counterbalance charges that Obama isn't experienced enough.

[PoliticalAmazon]

8. 14 Reasons Why Obama Should Reject Hillary as VP...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5935549&mesg_id=5935963

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. I disagree.

"First, he can largely freeze her out of the administration is she doesn't cooperate. Vice Presidents have very little power."

He could also freeze her out by not giving her any position. He'll still have the junior senator from NY to deal with, but oh well.

"Second, if he doesn't choose a woman, McCain will, and that will steal a lot of the thunder from Obama and the theme of change, and also be very tempting to some women."

I really don't see how that works.

"Third, choosing Clinton pretty much heals the divisions in the Democratic Party, allowing Obama to focus on McCain and making it more difficult for Republicans to play on our divisions."

Nonsense, Clinton's an entirely polarizing figure. The shit she's pulled so far in this campaign only accentuates that.

"Fourth, Clinton connects very well with some key constituencies, including Latinos, gays, Jews, the elderly, and poor whites. "

All of whom will connect with Obama just as well.

"Eight, Clinton is extremely well spoken and effective. That means we'll have two candidates who are better spoken than McCain. "

Now I know you're joking.



"Fifth, she and her husband have a lot of know how in how to deal with the Republican machine. "

Her and her husband have been the Republican machine for the last 3 months. Obama's done just fine.

"Sixth, it gives in access to an organization and fundraising machine that is second to only his own."

She's 20 million in debt.

"Seven, Clinton is better connected than he is to many statewide Democratic parties, which are crucial in get-out-the-vote efforts."

Obama's been running a 50 state strategy. Clinton disparages every state that doesn't vote for her.

"Nine, If Obama's first term is rocky, it's less likely that Clinton will run against him in 2012 if she's VP."

If she wants to run against him in 2012, bring it on.

"Ten, she brings with her a liberal voting record and experience to that will counterbalance charges that Obama isn't experienced enough."

She brings her conservative IWR voting record and contradicts Obama's entire message of change.

[MattBaggins]

19. I agree with you except for one little point.

I question either McCain or Obama choosing a female running mate other than Clinton. It would be seen as the ultimate in pandering and go over like a ton of bricks.

[Lilith Velkor]

7. If Clinton is on the ticket, the Unity talk is not bullshit

I would vote for Obama in that case.

If not, I will consider myself duly purged, and vote for Cynthia McKinney.

[democrattotheend]

9. Would putting another woman or a Clinton supporter on the ticket make a difference for you?

Some people have suggested that he put a Clinton supporter, rather than Clinton herself, on the ticket as a compromise and a nod toward unity. Other people have suggested he pick a woman. I am curious if either of those things would make any difference.

[Lilith Velkor]

10. Not to me

I'd rather see the mob that's been howling for her blood cordially invited to fuck off and vote Republican if they don't like it. Anything less is non-compromise bullshit "unity" IMFO.

[rox63]

11. I would love to see him pick Wes Clark as VP

Clark is a Clinton supporter, and he has major national security and foreign affairs credibility. And he'd help bring in votes from more southerners, veterans and active-duty military.

[redqueen]

16. Unity with old politics? He never said that. You're conflating things.

[Lilith Velkor]

20. Oh my bad - unity with the fresh young politics of Ronald Reagan.

Gosh, what was I thinking? :crazy:

[redqueen]

21. Who said that about Reagan?

I was upset when he praised Reagan's success as well... but he didn't say he wanted "unity with the fresh young politics of Ronald Reagan". Let's try to stick to reality.

[Lilith Velkor]

23. OK - so half the party is to be dismissed as "old politics"

Obviously, we don't want unity with that. That might lead to a budget surplus or something equally horrible.

So who is Barack talking about when he speaks of unity?

[redqueen]

25. No... Hillary ran a campaign based on old politics.

Let's not conflate the voters with Hillary or her campaign.

[Lilith Velkor]

31. I reiterate: with whom does Obama want unity?

If his campaign is just waving the word around, that's old politics, a/k/a bullshit.

[redqueen]

32. I'm sure he'd like unity with Clinton.

Sadly, she and her husband are still playing race-baiting politics and pushing RW bullshit memes about "elitists".

You can't have unity with people who use hate and fear to divide. That's what we should be fighting against, not appealing to... not exploiting.

[Lilith Velkor]

35. They are not the ones who hate and fear poor white people

Obama zealots are the ones pushing that, and they need to back the fuck off with assuming the white working class are all racists (i.e. race-baiting) if he's the nominee and they don't want to lose. Having Clinton on the ticket nips that shit right in the bud.

Instead of having unbridled contempt for the "low information voter" (i.e. elitism) it's a good idea to just deal with the fact that most Americans just don't do nuance, and use name recognition to the party's advantage.

[redqueen]

36. She's one of the richest members of the Senate.

Putting her on the ticket will not show "unity" with poor white Americans. It would imply "unity" with the disgusting tactics she and Bill are engaging in. The idea is laughable on its face.

And you must be joking if you think what a few troublemakers here say is going to have any effect on the GE.

As for name recognition, how's that worked out for her so far, while she's only had to appeal to Dems? Do you honestly think that name will help in the GE? With most people thinking she's the *least* trustworthy candidate (even including McCain!)?

Really?

[Lilith Velkor]

37. Most people remember relative peace and prosperity in the 90s

while the right was screaming about it the whole time. When the right finally got their way, they destroyed the fucking country.

The Obama camp takes the right's view of the Clinton years as a campaign tactic. How is that not disgusting?

If you all want "unity" with that crowd, have at it. I want no part of it, so don't come crying to me when it comes back and bites your ass clean off.

[redqueen]

38. It's not "the right's" view... it's the country. That includes moderates and independents.

Do you think that Bill and Hillary's reinforcing that RW meme about liberal "elitists" is not also disgusting?

It's not Obama who has "unity" with the people who pushed that crap for years (Scaife, Drudge)... it's Clinton's campaign.

I think the last sentence in your post is ironic, considering...

[Lilith Velkor]

39. Still no answer on with whom Obama wants unity.

Obviously not the evil evil Clintons who are so evil for pointing out an image problem ("elitists") that won't go away if you stick your head in the sand, the wife even having the gall to have lunch with Scaife, and committing the unexcusable crime of having Drudge lie his ass off about her.

So who is it?

[redqueen]

42. Her campaign has a liaison dedicated to Drudge.

I see you're not interested in an honest discussion.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

[Lilith Velkor]

43. I see you have no answer to my honest question, and "unity" talk is just bullshit

So I will. Ta ta.

[graycem]

13. Outrageous.. ok

P.S. Someone please say something outrageous so this poll will get a lot of responses and a lot of people will vote in the poll.


Obama rules, Hillary drools!

I'm kidding. :P I am maybe one of the few, that even though I have much disappointment with her tactics, think this may be our only way out of this mess. I mean, they do both have roughly half the vote. It could be the fastest way to a united party. :shrug:

[democrattotheend]

14. I have really mixed feelings about it

For all the reasons stated above. The question is, does the number of passionate Hillary supporters who won't vote for Obama without Clinton on the ticket outweigh the number of people who would be turned off by her presence on the ticket? Judging from the poll above no...but Obama supporters outnumber Clinton supporters here so it's hard to say. I don't see how any Obama supporter can say they won't vote for him if he puts Clinton on the ticket, but I guess everyone has their reasons.

[graycem]

15. I'd like to have an idea too

of that before it became formal. I'd like it if the polling companies would see how it would play out. Of course the results could be skewed because feelings are so raw right now on both sides, but I think people who are really committed to their chosen candidate, and would suck it up for the sake of us winning in the fall, and we can't do that without unity. That said, I trust Obama's judgment and no matter who he picks, I'll be supporting him unless he picks Karl Rove. I am really excited about the Obama campaign, but I'm more excited about winning.

[redqueen]

17. If she's the VP, I won't vote for him.

I live in a safely red state... if I didn't, I'd hold my nose and vote for another DLCer on the ticket.

As it is, I'm not hurting my party's chances in the GE by voting for another candidate for the top slot, and Dem for down-ticket races.

[Meshuga]

22. I'm an Obama supporter who doesn't understand the logic

of a Hillary supporter who will not vote for him in November. I would have no problems voting for Hillary in the unlikely event that she wins the nomination.

[democrattotheend]

24. Kicking

In case anyone missed this yesterday.

[democrattotheend]

26. Almost 10% of Obama supporters would not vote for him if he picks Clinton for VP?

Geez, with supporters like this, who needs Republicans?

I am so happy about getting my first choice for the top of the ticket that I don't think there's anyone (within reason) he could put at the bottom of the ticket that would dissuade me from voting for him.

[invictus]

27. I would not vote for the ticket if Hillary is on it. Neither will a lot of progressives. n/t

[democrattotheend]

33. That's insane

You're going to let a progressive candidate lose because of his VP pick? Everyone knows VP candidates are chosen strategically for electoral value, not necessarily because they embody the same ideas and principles as the nominee. Obama's young enough that I don't think we have to worry too much about the VP pick. If Clinton is his best bet in terms of electability (and I am not convinced that she is), it's a small bitter pill to swallow and a small price to pay, IMO. I am just excited that it looks like I am going to get my first choice on the top of the ticket...that's a first for me.

[newmajority]

28. You cannot combine change with the continued appeasement of the DLC

Hillary Clinton will not be on this ticket.

[Apollo11]

29. I think a Clinton-Obama ticket would work, but Obama-Clinton? Maybe not.

For many weeks now I have believed that a Clinton-Obama ticket would be our strongest ticket against McCain.

I have been very impressed by how Hillary has been performing in debates, in her speeches, in TV interviews.

But if Hillary Clinton is not the Presidential nominee I think she should stay in the Senate and become a Committee Chair or maybe majority leader. I cannot see Hillary being comfortable in the VP slot.

[democrattotheend]

30. I can't see her being comfortable in the VP slot either

Which is one of my hesitations. I actually agree with you that if we are going to do a joint ticket, Clinton/Obama made more sense than Obama/Clinton, but I don't see how you put him in the second slot when he has won more states, more delegates, and more votes.

[4_Legs_Good]

34. I go back and forth over whether or not I think it's a good idea, but I would CERTAINLY

vote for the ticket if it came to it.

I think Clinton is mostly great, but the baggage created for her and particularly created by her in this campaign may be more than Obama wants to bear.

OTOH, a lot of Democrats LOVE her, so that's a plus, plus I think yesterday showed that she's strong where he's weak, so she could be a benefit there.

Plus she'd be a great attack dog for the ticket, so long as she can explain away her attacks on Obama...

David

[cbayer]

40. I have been unwaveringly in support of a unified ticket.

They complement each other very well in many ways and I continue to believe they would make an unbeatable ticket.

I also think that along with all the other groundbreaking events we are seeing with this election, we may also have the possibility of something close to a co-presidency.

[Swamp Rat]

41. I am a Kucinich supporter who hopes Obama will choose Bob Graham, John Edwards, or RFK jr, for VP,

among other great possibilities. :)

Of course, Kucinich would be the BEST choice. :D

[democrattotheend]

44. Bumping one more time

Because I like polls.