"The typical conversation" gets it wrong.

[themaguffin]

And so it continues, talking points about Florida and Michigan that seem to leave out the facts.

Florida, Michigan and every state AGREED to the rules and the schedule.

All of the candidates agreed to them as well.

This means that they acknowledged the unfortunate situation that would happen if any state decided to make themselves more important than all others by breaking rules that all of the states agreed to.

Again, they knew that they would be penalized for breaking the rules. Don’t blame the DNC for the state’s actions. If you are a resident of one of these states and are upset that your state screwed up, let your relevant representatives know it.

Hopefully, they won’t pull a stupid stunt like this again. The primary schedule needs to be improved, but breaking the rules is not the way to do it. Causing unnecessary commotion for the entire party, nationwide is not the way to do it.

Everyone knows that letting states break the rules would set a horrible precedent. And everyone knows that the two contests in question were unsanctioned and the results would not accurately reflect those of a sanctioned contest regardless of any punishment for breaking the rules.

And yet we still see threads that refuse to accept the reality of the situation.

No, the contests don’t count and no they should not count. In the spirit of good will, the states should gladly accept any offer the DNC extends for a limited delegation for state representation in Denver.

[2rth2pwr]

1. Yes, the voters in those states should be grateful that the DNC even is considering any

representation. Selfish bastards.

[dcindian]

3. The only way Hillary can win is to make sure all the states don't count.

Where do you stand on that?

[Texas Hill Country]

5. how does that even make sense?

[dcindian]

7. Hillary can't win the majority of the pledge delegates.

So the only thing she can hope for is the super delegates overturning the primary.

[2rth2pwr]

6. I stand for the millions of voters in MI and FL that Obama is disenfranchising.

[themaguffin]

10. do your homework unless you want to continue to make an ass of yourself

[2rth2pwr]

13. Obama has blocked resolution on this issue.

[elocs]

12. Right, Obama and Obama alone is disenfranchising them. Their reps had nothing to do with it?

Life is about choices and consequences. Both FL and MI knew the consequences of their choices, but they chose to do so with impugnity believing nothing would happen. Clinton agreed with the consequences when she thought she would not need the delegates from both states. Once she did need them, she changed her tune. Care to explain that one away? I thought not--no Clinton supporter does.

[2rth2pwr]

14. Obama had a choice to redo, he chose to keep the peoples voices silenced.

[themaguffin]

18. No, the state made the CHOICE to BREAK the RULES

[2rth2pwr]

21. Afterwards, fool.

[themaguffin]

23. Yes it was foolish for the states to be stupid and selfish.

[elocs]

19. Right, Obama alone had the power to do that--regardless of the rules?

Didn't the candidates agree to the rules and the sanctions? Didn't they?

[2rth2pwr]

26. Both states were open for a revote, Obama squashed democracy.

[Texas Hill Country]

4. yeah, to hell with the voters for insisting that their votes count!!! how dare they!!!

[rucky]

9. We're all pissed about that.

We just need to all be pissed at the proper entities, and quit muddying it up any more than it already is.

not the candidates. not the DNC. The STATES.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. The DNC has the final call as to whether to seat the delegates and give effect to the vote

The buck stops there. At Howard Dean's desk. He had the discretion on how best to address the situation, and he made the wrong decision to collectively punish the voters instead of simply the state officials.

I'm sorry, but that's the plain truth of the situation.

[themaguffin]

17. bullshit

The states KNEW that if they broke the rules that their representation would be in jeopardy.

Yet they did it. They KNEW THAT THEIR RESIDENTS WOULD SUFFER PER THE RULES.

I suppose if someone gets a DUI, it's the judges fault that he got the charge and not the person who drank and drove irresponsibly.

After all, the judge made the decision to sentence the person.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

20. You're conveniently forgetting who is getting punished here

The voters are getting punished here. And all they did was vote.

Congratulations, you are in the awkward position of supporting collective punishment.

[themaguffin]

22. I am not forgetting anything. I think that states hopefully will learn their lesson

and not pull such a stupid stunt again.

Maybe they can act like the other nearly 50 states who followed the rules.

The states put their residents in this position. Not Dean. Not Obama. Not the DNC.

[rucky]

24. Easy to say he made the wrong decision...

tougher to say what the right decision should be - especially w/ Michigan.

Nothing's really been decided yet. Just lots of arm-twisting.

[Exilednight]

15. On a scale of 1-5, most Clinton supporters will answer zero or less because........

that is the stance Clinton's camp has.

No more making decisions based on principle, the only thing that matters is defending Hillary, right or wrong.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

2. So one quick question:

Who is the "they" in your account of events?

[reflection]

8. Why, the Illuminati, of course. n/t

[elocs]

16. Damn! The Illuminati--I haven't heard about them in years. n/t

[reflection]

25. Those dadgum Illuminatis

always riding their bikes across my lawn. Buncha ne'er-do-wells.