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Even Clinton’s Nuclear Option Will Fail

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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 05:24 PM
Original message
Even Clinton’s Nuclear Option Will Fail
Even Clinton’s Nuclear Option Will Fail

That’s quite a strong statement, isn’t it? How can I possibly claim that to be true? Even Clinton’s nuclear option will fail.

Well, you probably know by now how curious I can be. I had a different question in my mind nagging me today, and as I set out trying to answer it, I discovered an answer far beyond what my intentions were to find.

The original question: Regarding this primary, what’s the worst that could happen?

Of course, I’m speaking from the perspective of an Obama supporter. To me, “worst” would be a situation, any situation, where Senator Obama would not be the Democratic Party’s nominee for President of the United States. I needed to verify, for myself, the absolute worst-case-scenario for Senator Obama’s chances of becoming our party’s nominee.

Considering the DNC’s status quo, Senator Obama already has the nomination clinched. The only way to change that fact is to change the status quo, or as we refer to it, “move the goalposts.”

Michigan and Florida, the Final Frontier (or is it?)

Changing the status quo would require reversing the DNC’s prior decision not to seat the Florida and Michigan delegations. But changing the status quo is only the first part of Senator Clinton’s nuclear option, and it’s the only part of the nuclear option that has any logic applied to it. The remaining parts of the nuclear option consist of noisemaking, pitching fits, whining, complaining, protesting, and threatening to hold the party’s convention and election process hostage if the first part doesn’t put forth the results that the Clinton campaign is seeking.

A meeting of the DNC’s Rules and Bylaws Committee is scheduled for May 31 to discuss the predicament with the Florida and Michigan delegations. At issue will be whether the DNC followed its own guidelines set forth in the Official Delegate Selection Rules for the 2008 Democratic National Convention when it ruled that none of the delegates from either Florida or Michigan will be seated at the National Convention in August.

The Clinton campaign will challenge the Committee to count at least half the delegations from Florida and Michigan by making reference to Rule 20.C.1.a. of the Delegate Selection Rules, under the heading of Challenges, which reads:

20.C.1.a. Violation of timing: In the event the Delegate Selection Plan of a state party provides or permits a meeting, caucus, convention or primary which constitutes the first determining stage in the presidential nominating process to be held prior to or after the dates for the state as provided in Rule 11 of these rules, or in the event a state holds such a meeting, caucus, convention or primary prior to or after such dates, the number of pledged delegates elected in each category allocated to the state pursuant to the Call for the National Convention shall be reduced by fifty (50%) percent, and the number of alternates shall also be reduced by fifty (50%) percent. In addition, none of the members of the Democratic National Committee and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from that state shall be permitted to vote as members of the state’s delegation. In determining the actual number of delegates or alternates by which the state’s delegation is to be reduced, any fraction below .5 shall be rounded down to the nearest whole number, and any fraction of .5 or greater shall be rounded up to the next nearest whole number.


Why, you may ask, didn’t the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee follow the guidelines provided under this Rule in the first place? The answer is simple, yet tricky. This Rule applies to seating the delegations at the Convention only. During the process and before the National Convention actually begins, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee acts as the governing body for adhering to the process. If a state violates the Rules in any way, the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee can certify non-compliance and remove the state from the process until the issue of non-compliance can be resolved. This is what happened with the Florida and Michigan delegations. They were simply removed from the process, pending resolution.

The Nuclear Argument

Given that the current status of Florida and Michigan is non-compliance, the Clinton campaign will first argue that both state primaries were conducted in a democratic manner and thus represent the actual intentions of the will of the voters in both states, and that no rules were violated. They may very well win on the first point, but not on the second, since the dates of the primaries were in violation of timing.

They would then argue that no compromise could be reached with the Obama campaign as to how to split the delegations, so the delegations should be seated as determined by the outcome of each state’s primary:

Florida:
Clinton – 105 pledged delegates
Obama – 67 pledged delegates
Edwards – 8 pledged delegates
Unpledged – 26 superdelegates

Michigan:
Clinton – 74 delegates
Uncommitted – 54 delegates
Unpledged – 28 superdelegates

The DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee will then, if they agree, make an official recommendation to the Credentials Committee that the pledged delegates be split in half and rounded for the National Convention pursuant to Rule 20.C.1.a. Thus, the delegations will be granted compliance status with these numbers:

Florida:
Clinton – 53 pledged delegates
Obama – 34 pledged delegates
Edwards – 4 pledged delegates
Unpledged* – 0 superdelegates*

Michigan:
Clinton – 37 pledged delegates
Uncommitted – 27 pledged delegates
Unpledged* - 0 superdelegates*

*From Rule 20.C.1.a.: ”In addition, none of the members of the Democratic National Committee and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from that state shall be permitted to vote as members of the state’s delegation.”

With nothing going to Senator Obama in Michigan, this is the best that the Clinton Campaign could possibly hope for.

The new goalposts would be:
3,427 pledged delegates (half = 1,713.5)
795 superdelegates* (see above)
4,222 total delegates
2,112 delegates needed to nominate

Obama’s Got It Covered

Senator Obama currently has 1,594 pledged delegates and 285 superdelegates, totaling 1,879. Adding the DNC-approved totals from Florida and Michigan would give Senator Obama 1,628 pledged delegates and 285 superdelegates, totaling 1,913.

The new halfway mark of pledged delegates would be 1,713.5, and a majority would be 1,714. According to his current pledged delegate count and the polls for upcoming state contests, Senator Obama will still earn a majority of pledged delegates:

1,628 pledged delegates to date
9 pledged delegates from West Virginia
19 pledged delegates from Kentucky
30 pledged delegates from Oregon
24 pledged delegates from Puerto Rico
8 pledged delegates from Montana
9 pledged delegates from South Dakota
1,727 total pledged delegates (13 above half)

At this point, Senator Clinton’s nuclear option with everything decided in her favor has failed, since Senator Obama will still earn the majority of pledged delegates and win the endorsements of Pelosi Club superdelegates.

The Counter Argument

Back at the May 31 DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting, the Obama campaign will provide counter arguments that could result in rulings made to his advantage, making it easier for him to clinch the nomination in a nuclear scenario. Such arguments are:

- No candidates except Hillary Clinton were on the ballot in Michigan, thus making it impossible to determine the actual intentions of the will of the voters in that state. The Rules Committee could throw out all of the results from Michigan, or split the entire delegation between each candidate after penalizing the delegation by 50%.

And

- Michigan voters chose 27 uncommitted pledged delegates, and Senator Obama could argue that the actual intentions of the will of these voters were to vote for him.

Favorable rulings would only serve to boost Senator Obama’s nomination chances.

:dunce:
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. ?

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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. :)

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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Breaking: Clinton wins West Virginia, earns 4,000 delegates, clinches nomination
Obama to give concession speech in straight-jacket from padded round room.

:P
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. I always look forward to your posts. K&R.
:toast:
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. *Click*
:toast:

:-)

So, when Obama concedes tonight, how should we take the news?

(giggle)
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I shall tear at my hair, I shall collapse into my fainting couch.
Edited on Tue May-13-08 07:19 PM by myrna minx


:rofl: Or I may pop in an episode of Arrested Development and treat this like any other night. :hi: As another poster noted, we're not at def-con 5 tonight, so we know it's a night like any other.

On edit: I'm interested in what the neilson ratings for the news channels will be for tonight.
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. LOL that's true!
Half the Obama supporters here didn't even bother to show up.

That couch looks comfy. Maybe we can convince Jack to draw Rose lying on it naked wearing only the heart of the ocean. Or better yet, I could find the remote and jump on it and eat my sweet 'n salty chex mix with honey nut clusters. mmmmmmmm! Heaven.



:D
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. We'll allow Hillary be "Queen of the world" for tonight with her win in WV
and we'll get back to work tomorrow. Ok, you have the yummy Chex mix, and I'll work on these dark chocolate bon bons. :hi:
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. Aw, come on...give this great thread one more rec!
:kick:
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Shae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. absolutely
k & r !!
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank you.
:hi:
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. lol
:loveya:
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. And off to the greatest for ye...
Always love your posts!
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thank ye! Myrna minx has been decorating this post ...
... and eating bon bons and drawing folks neckid on the couch. Grace Adler! :hi:
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. LOL. How do you know me so well?
:rofl:
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. lol ... I think I'll drag the couch into your next post and decorate your thread :)
You'll hear me coming. It's the sound of wooden couch legs dragging across the wood floor. :P
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. OK, I'll break out the absinthe and show you some color swatches.
:rofl:
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hogwyld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. You can count me in if the swatches
are psychedelic! That ought to go well with the absinthe.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. They could be all grey and the absinthe would make them psychadelic
Or so I've heard (never drunk it myself).
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Merci. I think most of the math nerds to the night off.
:hi:
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Yukari Yakumo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. And one additional facet to explore too...
Backlash against Clinton.

SDs from states other than FL and MI will not tolerate HRC's attempt to game the system.

But Team HRH HRC seems to not see this likely problem. Though their extreme short-sightedness would be par for the course for them.
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. True, their strategy is a bit of a train wreck
... the primary season wasn't supposed to last this long for them. The supers, particularly the elected ones, would act in force.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. she's got nothing - it's over
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I love your sig pic, AK
We might need to use the platter next week when Obama wins Oregon. New poll, he's up by 20 there.

:hi:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Can't wait til Obama delivers that ass-whooping in November !!
I've got that special tingly feeling Obama may throw down his winning hand May 20th with a monster win in Oregon and a bucketful of superdelegates to reach that magical 2,025 and yell Yahtzee!
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-13-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. she actually did poorly if you put outcome against expectations. She is down
between 20-30% in her projections of 80-90% win in WV. Consider as well that 7% went to Edwards. 60% is very low and shows that Obama made up some ground on her.
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. It could have been 75% to 25% and the outcome wouldn't have changed
It's funny that everyone saw a 40% win for her in West Virginia. No expectations were changed.

:hi:
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
26. Good job!
K & R :thumbsup:
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thanky Scurry :)
:toast:
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
30. Shameless self-kicking subthread
Feel free to throw spitballs at me :)
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-14-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. last time
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