Bill Clinton in Oregon denigrates DNC rules, says Florida did no wrong.

[madfloridian]

Bill Clinton did just as Terry McAuliffe did on TV this Sunday. He reinvented the party rules right out loud. There has been too much of this, and everytime I see it I will speak out.

Here are the rules:

Under the DNC delegate selection rules, if a state party’s plan violates the rule with respect to timing, the number of its pledged delegates—those delegates awarded proportionally to candidates based on the primary or caucus results—is automatically reduced 50%(without any action by the RBC or DNC); no member of the DNC can attend the Convention as a delegate; no Member of Congress can attend the Convention as a delegate; and if applicable, the state’s Democratic governor can not attend the Convention as a delegate. In addition, any presidential candidate who campaigns in the state for the event in violation of the rules cannot receive any pledged delegates from that state. In addition to these automatic sanctions, the DNC RBC has authority under the rules to impose additional sanctions, including further reductions in the state’s delegation.

Rules committee testimony..pdf format

Here is part of what Bill Clinton said in Eugene, Oregon.

Bill Clinton in Oregon

Kendrick Meek, a 40 year old African American Congressman from Miami.... knows that the Democrats are blameless in Florida's decision to have an early primary, and yet we basically gutted them. The Republicans, who did it, were treated quite differently. Because the Republicans like to win elections. So they did what their rules provide. And what our rules also provide, they said, 'Okay...you went ahead of time so we're going to seat you at half-delegates and seat all your super delegates. That's what any political party with any sense would do."

—Bill Clinton, Eugene, Oregon May 12, 2008

In one breath he says Republicans have better rules, he redefines our own party rules, and he puts down the party implying it has no sense. He further said that Republicans like to win elections...the implication being our party does not. Terrible thing for a former Democratic president to say.

Not just Bill Clinton.

Former DNC chairman Terry McAuliffe also "redefined" the rules on TV recently. This is amazing to me how her campaign has done this so seamlessly. They are lying about the party rules so easily. So shamelessly.

McAuliffe misleads about the party rules

McAuliffe was in there swinging on both Face the Nation and Meet the Press, arguing that Clinton still has a chance to win the party nomination. And if they're smart, he suggested, superdelegates will hold out and not do anything that might turn off the many people who have voted for her this primary season.

"Most of the superdelegates will wait til the end til everybody's voted," McAuliffe said. Clinton will be ahead in the popular vote, he predicted, and ahead in delegates.

Someone tell him that it is not the popular vote which chooses our nominee.

[hisownpetard]

1. I am sick of the whole lot of them. Can't wait for Terry to Mc-Call-it-Off.

[redqueen]

2. Lie lie lie lie lie.

And the media calls them on it how often?

[Oregone]

3. In Newport yesterday, he said republicans were more fair and democratic than us.

And he also repeated what was posted above. Hell, he had Meeks from Florida introduce him.

[Cha]

84. Oh bil clinton is also Stupid as well as a

Liar.

[cstanleytech]

93. Got a link to what he said exactly there? NT

[still_one]

4. it was ok when he ran, now he has a problem with it /nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. Bill Clinton to the DNC rules

[CakeGrrl]

6. As long as Pelosi, Dean, et al are watching

Go ahead and burn those bridges, Bill and Terry. Knock yourselves out.

[ZinZen]

64. Yep, there goes Bill's legacy

in the pooper. Hope it was all worth it especially since he was doing some good work on climate change prior to Hillary's candiacy. Now Bill will be reduced to an old man who shouts at the clouds.

[Thrill]

7. Why was it neccessary for Bill to say Meek was Black?

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. Because he could

add that point which is soooooooooooooooooo not relevant.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. Do you have an answer to that? He feels Meeks stabbed him in the back

might be another reason. Hunter Thompson warned us on Bill Clinton.

[Thrill]

34. I don't. But its just further proof that any chance they get

they bring up race. Always from the Clinton side.

[babylonsister]

8. Rec'd. I wish I had Dean's e-mail addy. He needs to see this, though

I suspect he's heard about it.

[AZ Criminal JD]

10. Obama has been bragging he is ahead in the popular vote.

Now all of a sudden the popular vote does not mean anything.

[madfloridian]

12. Stop it. He is correcting Hillary on that. He is ahead.

But she is claiming she is by adding in FL and MI. He called her on it.

Damn Hot Damn, we are in a really big state of denial, aren't we.?

[AZ Criminal JD]

20. No, let's just wait and see after June 3rd

It's not that far away.

[madfloridian]

21. Oh, Good Lord.....it is over.

I never saw such denial.

[DemBones DemBones]

11. Florida VOTERS were screwed by a GOP-run legislature and then by the DNC.

I'm re-registering as an Independent, after 40 years as a registered Democrat, because all the votes should be counted in every state, but only once. Howard Dean and Barack Obama are destroying the party, aided by their loyal followers.

Get ready for the night they bring Obama down.

[SoCalDem]

13. Then who were all those strangers who wandered in off the street,

pretended to be elected democratic legislators, and then voted (almost unanimously) for the move-up? They were all over tv & the press, showing off their cutesy "merchandise" that bragged about how "size mattered" and how they were going to diss Dean & the DNC?.. It soounded to me, at the time, that those people had been ELECTED by the Florida democrats, to represent them..

They knew what the rules were, but one of them even proposed the bill that ushered in the rules-breaking part..

Someone needs to send out a search party to find the "real democratic legislators".. these guys must have them stashed away in a spider hole somewhere..

better put OJ on it.. he can look for them, while he's out there looking for the "real killers"..

[charlie]

19. Fuggedaboutit

You're talking to one of this place's prime Hillary bashers, one who'd never vote for her, who didn't go independent when the punishment for Florida was meted out last year. Along comes a guy named Obama and suddenly it's wimmen power, everyone's unfair to Hillary, Florida's being robbed of its delegates, Dean is a bastard. Kinda like Hillary herself.

[madfloridian]

14. Well, so you are leaving the party now. Bye bye

[PurityOfEssence]

15. The Democrats were virtually in lock-step with them

The idea that this was something forced on us by the evil reactionaries simply doesn't hold water.

Much as I disagree with the thread-starter on relative merits of the candidates and electability, he's been correct on this from before it even actually happened and has been very vocal on the subject.

I don't think either state's delegates should be seated, and I hope that drives the lesson home.

It doesn't really matter if this is then used as an excuse that the nominee wasn't properly chosen; there are going to be endless recriminations and reassessments for years to come, regardless of the outcome of the nomination or the general election.

It's a horrendous mess, and we can thank this state for another fine mess.

The selfishness seems to have been bi-partisan, to say the least.

[Carolina]

27. oh, but Florida's elected Dems are blameless!

Spare me me your delusions, distortions and despicable projection!

[neverforget]

38. And to the 48 states that followed the rules?

RULES ARE FOR SUCKERS!

[hokies4ever]

43. FL and MI will be seated

Only a true political idiot would believe otherwise. They've even scheduled a date to seat them (5/31). This waiting period is punishment for the legislators of those states who took part in these shenanigans. Howard Dean is brilliant. He knows that their phones are ringing off the hook and their e-mails being flooded by their unhappy constituents, so he sees no problem in letting them endure it for another couple of weeks before he puts them on trial in front of all of the nation to see. He'll show them to be somewhat incompetent legislators and then he'll seat FL and MI.

[davidpdx]

70. Hokies

You hit the nail on the head. That's what I've been saying for awhile and argued on another thread. People may not like when or how they are seated, but it will happen. My major point is that Clinton needs to stop using this as a divisive wedge issue to stay in the race. If she wants to stay in the race, fine. Talk about issues that matter. No more BS attacks or playing the Florida and Michigan got screwed card.

[hokies4ever]

71. Two points

1. The biggest losers are going to be the state legislators from MI and FL who moved up their primary date. Donna Brazile said on CNN after the WV Primary that the 5/31 delegate seating hearing will be televised live and completely open to the public. It's clear to me that they plan to hold their feet to the fire and put a curse upon their houses before seating the delegates. That way when 2012 comes around people will remember the 5/31 embarrassing hearings before trying to move their primary up again.

2. Why does Hillary need to make her superdelegate argument public? That's one of the things I dislike about Hillary's campaign. She has the phone numbers and e-mails of the supers, so why make your case to them public instead of just contacting them? I think that's why Howard Dean wants the superdelegates to decide sooner rather than later. This election has slowly transformed from being just about the people in the early contests to being just about the superdelegates late in this primary season. The ABC debate was the best example of superdelegates being more important than the average voter. Remember the last question of that debate? It was the classic, "What's your last pitch to an undecided voter?" Asked a million times at the end of political debates. However, it was asked from the perspective of what's your last pitch to 20 undecided supers at the Convention. There's just something wrong about a debate that focuses on the superdelegates instead of the voters. I'm sure that many of the supers are unhappy with the way that Hillary has made the end of this election a focus on supers instead of the voters.

[davidpdx]

72. I agree with you

I missed the ABC debate as I'm overseas. In a way I'm glad though, because I'm sure it would have pissed me off.

[OmahaBlueDog]

44. DemBones, Florida is being screwed, but voting for McSame just screws Florida twice

As bad as this is, it's nothing compared to what was done to us in 2000. I say let's pay back Katherine Harris before sending a message to Howard Dean.

[roguevalley]

57. dream on, dembones. dream on.

[PassingFair]

89. Good, you and Papau can start your own "compound"!

The FUN you'll have!

[cyclezealot]

91. Guess for those of us who think the 'Rules," stink & demand reform.

They just will have to kick "we anarchists," out of the party.

[madfloridian]

16. Bring it on.

I say that to all who are in severe denial about who is gutting our party right now.

I have seen the side of the Clintons that I heard about in the 90s and did not believe.

I have seen it, and I do not like it.

I say to Howard Dean to hang in there, and to the rules committee, hang in there. Do the right thing.

If people leave the party because rules are followed, we will rebuild quickly.

[mystieus]

17. The clintons only have one thing on mind, salvaging a now rejected legacy

[madfloridian]

18. He said we would unify at the end if FL and MI were counted.

"Beginning with a unifying tone, he began by claiming that no matter what, the Democratic party will unite soon behind a nominee, and all will be well.

And I want to begin by saying, as we come to the end, it's profoundly important—more important than anything else—to change the direction of this country. So I can say for my candidate, and our family, whatever happens, we are going to unite the Democratic party for victory in November."

—Bill Clinton, May 12, 2008, Eugene Oregon

The crowd loudly cheered at hearing this. Clinton then went on to posit that in order for this to happen, the delegates in Florida and Michigan should be seated. In explaining his thinking, he offered a line reminiscent of the times Hillary has praised the Republicans as she has sought to capture the Democratic party's nomination for Presidential candidate."

http://culturekitchen.com/nezua_limon_xolagrafik_jonez/blog/bill_clinton_in_eugene_ore

[Donna Zen]

25. A question for you

If the Maine DC had violated the rules and knew the delegates wouldn't be seated, we had plenty of time to organize an alternative plan. We voted on the rules over a year ago, and I've written at DU, we made sure that our delegates would be seated. What I don't understand is why the Florida DC didn't create a new plan once they knew that they were in trouble?

It makes no sense to me.

[madfloridian]

32. It is odd, because FL had 30 days to fix things.

They only had to act in good faith.

The only way to make sense was that it was deliberately done to play the bully.

[Donna Zen]

56. When was the primary date decided

I ask because my committee voted on this over a year ago. At that point, even if my state had decided to screw us, we could have made other plans. As it is, we chose to pay for our own caucus rather go for the state financed primary.

[madfloridian]

61. I THINK it was in March 2007....according to this.

I posted this in Nov. 2007 and referred back to the vote being in March of that year.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com:80/madfloridian/1461

[Donna Zen]

65. That's what I thought

You see, our committe had to meet a deadline. But what gets my knickers in a twist is that this is being presented to the public as if somehow this was just sprung on MI and FL. I love you guys, but honestly, there was plenty of time to come up with another plan.

Now whack job McAuliffe, the man who nearly brought the party to its knees, is saying that the new number is 2209. Absolutely. No Debate.

My friend stopped by the other day, she is neither an Obama or a Clinton partisan, but she said that if the Dem. Party refuses to play by its own rules, then she's done.

I'm very angry about this...and it is the Clinton junk rationale...because I feel that the time I've spent working has meant nothing. As a caucus state, our popular vote doesn't count. Playing by rules doesn't seem to be valued.

[madfloridian]

67. It infuriates me. FL Dems worked with the GOP as early as March 2006

http://journals.democraticunderground.com:80/madfloridian/1564

I have never been so angry at the way they are using my state as a tool to get to convention. As Dean says...we have to consider the 48 states that followed the rules.

[Usrename]

22. Kick

someone make them stop!!!!!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

24. He's right.

It doesn't matter if you say it is for the wrong reasons or wrong motive, the man is absolutely right.

I really hate to admit it, but the RNC handled their own Florida delegate situation infinitely better than Howard Dean and the DNC. (Mind you, even a broken clock is right two minutes out of the day.)

[OmahaBlueDog]

26. It makes no sense that Florida Dems are penalized for the decision of a GOP legislature

..and (as I've said before) I think the DNC is out of line for telling states when to hold primaries that they pay for. If the Democratic party (or anyone else) don't like the dates a state chooses, they should rent facilities and hold caucuses. To me, this whole idea that Iowa and New Hampshire should set the tone leading up to Super Tuesday is absurd.

I hope that in 2012, we have a national primary, and I hope that we reform the rules to NOT allow party switching within 30 days of the vote.

[Carolina]

29. but you completely ignore the fact that Florida's elected

Dems went along instead of protesting the GOPers in the legislature THEN!

The the Bill Nelsons (DINO-FLA) of the world played as much a part of this mess as the GOP members of the legislature yet instead of directing their ire at the GOP, they cannabalize the party, Dean and of course, Obama.

With apologies beforehand to family, friends and fellow DUers in that state, let's face it folks, FLORIDA IS FUCKED UP!

[madfloridian]

33. You are not telling the truth. FL Dems went along.

and they worked with Marco Rubio from the beginning.

[OmahaBlueDog]

37. What's the diff? The GOP was going to pass the change with or without them.

[madfloridian]

39. The former president is advocating breaking party rules...

saying they don't matter.

I see people here just excusing her campaign for things like this.

[OmahaBlueDog]

40. I agree with the former President in this case: Party rules should not trump state law

The role of parties in the process (Democrats, Republicans, Libertatians, Greens) is to assemble slates of candidates for office built around common principles, and to gain economies of scale in campaigning.

States pay for the elections, ensure (we hope) fair counting of the votes, secure the polling places, and agree upon the dates, times, and methods for voting.

It's not any party's place to dictate to any state when they should hold their elections; again, if a party doesn't like the date, time, and means a state has chosen to hold a primary, they should hold caucuses at the party's expense.

You want to make this about Hillary Clinton -- we're way beyond that point. I don't see any hope for our party winning Florida in the General Election because of the arrogance of Dean (who I normally agree with on issues of party stewardship) and the DNC.

Aside from this argument (in which neither one of us is going to convinve either one of us), I'm curious if you are a Southwestern, Southeastern, Central, or Panhandle Floridian. I lived outside Fort Lauderdale (very divided politically) for over 20 years. I don't see the Democrats there being particularly forgiving on this issue; perhaps your outlook is different.

[madfloridian]

42. They always have trumped state law....even a supreme court precedent.

This is called rewriting history.

[OmahaBlueDog]

45. This is the same SCOTUS that said the 2000 recount should be stopped?

[madfloridian]

47. The Clinton are trying to split the party, change its rules..

and you think it is ok.

[OmahaBlueDog]

50. You see this as being about the Clintons: I see this as being about Florida

Florida should decide when they want to have election day, unless the Federal Government mandates a national primary (which I sincerely hope comes to pass). The party should have smiled, nodded, shown up with their candidates, and campaigned. Why we chose to make an asinine, arbitrary argument out of this I don't know. As it stands, whomever gets nominated (most likely Obama) will have a tainted nomination and a handicap to overcome in Florida that was unnecessary.

In happier news, Childers is up on Davis in Mississippi by just under 6700 votes with 93% of the precincts counted. Maybe we can agree to be happy about this?

[madfloridian]

51. Tainted because rules were followed? That is just Clinton spin.

I am glad about Childers. But I don't think half of DU sees the danger of the propaganda about FL and MI.

Only the Clintons would try to split a party like this, making it sound like having rules is wrong.

It is a new low for them.

[DesEtoiles]

54. where is your "briar patch" video of that Dem in the FL legis. mocking the DNC?

[madfloridian]

62. Here is the Quicktime...You Tube took theirs down.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/files/geller_amendment_fullh.264%20300Kbps.mov

Takes a minute to download.

[DesEtoiles]

66. excellent. thanks. this should put the whole thing to rest as to what REALLY happened

[roguevalley]

58. everyone agreed to the rules. they need to follow them or this is just bullshit

I am sick of people not following the rules and whining,. Jeez, you wanna be treated like an adult, act like one.

[OmahaBlueDog]

63. Well, since Florida's Democrats votes count, I'd go with "This is just BS"

Either we (the National Democratic Party) should hold a do-over (at our expense), or we should count the votes that were cast on the day the state chose to hold the primary.

Otherwise, no one should be shocked in the fall when every "all-the-votes-should-count" comments we've made since we got screwed in 2000 are used against us.

[madfloridian]

75. The DNC and Dean asked them to have a "do-over". The states refused.

.

[JTFrog]

73. The difference is that all they had to do was act in good faith and they

would not have been penalized. They were complicit. There is video of the democratic leaders LAUGHING about their obvious complicity for cripes sakes.

Play by the rules and just give it up already. She has lost. It is over.

[DesEtoiles]

55. have a link to that video? I've seen it here before.

[Prophet 451]

92. Somewhat agreed, but...

As I understand it, Florida can be seated more-or-less as-is and probably will be. Michigan can't be seated because Hillary's was the only name on the ballot and her campaign has blocked the only two fair solutions (a re-vote or giving Obama the "uncommitted" votes). Sucks for Michigan, I agree but with the Hillary campaign insisting that they get all the delegates and Obama none or they'll scweam until they turn blue, there's not much that can be done.

The DNC has to have some control over when primaries are held just to avoid a game of one-upping that would end up with the 2012 primaries being held before the 2009 inaugaration but I'll confess that I've never understood the fixation with Iowa and New Hampshire either (perhaps because I'm British?). A one or two-day national primary just seems obvious to me. Then again, we don't have primaries at all here.

[madfloridian]

30. FL and MI planned it well

and it worked. It is Hillary's ticket to the convention.

[billyoc]

28. I can't understand why he would say tha--oh, yeah, he's a trianulating DLC liar. nt

[Major Hogwash]

31. There's about another week of Bubba left, and that's about all I can stand at this point.

Then he can go back to playing golf or whatever he was doing for the previous 7 years.

[madfloridian]

36. I feel the same way.

And it is sad that I do.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dano81818]

41. listen, the whole thing is a clusterfuck... no doubt...

the question is whether hillary deserves the delegates from those 2 botched elections which were held in violation of party rules. obama wasnt even on the ballot in MI and she wants those freakin delegates?? if i recall, "none of the above" did pretty well in that election.

[City Lights]

46. BC has gone from the Big Dawg to the Rabid Little Mutt.

IMHO.

Bill, it didn't have to be this way. It shouldn't be this way. :-(

[AtomicKitten]

48. Bubba can try to reframe and restate the rules til the cows come home but

he's not in charge. McAullife at least in his book agrees rules are rules, and Howard Dean intends to enforce the rules. As it should be.

[madfloridian]

49. He keeps pushing for FL and MI....

"EUGENE, Ore. - Pundits say the math is against Sen. Hillary Clinton and she should drop out of the race for the Democratic nomination for president.

Her husband, former President Bill Clinton, disagrees.

"She's won most of the elections she's been in," Clinton said May 12 after an appearance at the University of Oregon. "If they're so worried about, why don't they let everybody vote and we'll see."

Clinton earlier told the crowd that Florida voters should have been allowed to weigh in on the Democratic primary. The Democratic National Committee is refusing to seat delegates from Florida because the state held its primary earlier than allowed by party rules. But Clinton said the date of the primary was set by the Republicans in power in Florida.

Democrat party officials are refusing to count delegates from either Florida or Michigan."

http://www.kval.com/news/local/18914289.html

[kevinbgoode]

52. At this point, I'd almost agree to seat Florida . . .with one stipulation

Florida gets seated and Bill and Hillary Clinton go back to NYC and don't attend the convention. . .hahaha.

[madfloridian]

53. Dean said over a month ago they would be seated.

But counted as both candidates agreed or the nominee decided.

But they want it all counted...all of the early primary. They are not going to get it.

Dean offered an olive branch to Florida. Delegate apportionment not settled.

Not enough for them.

Hubby and I are to the point we don't even look at them on TV anymore. Lost all respect.

[rodeodance]

59. oh that little weakling shrilling for obama is a pust!

[ShortnFiery]

60. Bill, Hill and Terry = The Devil's Rejects ... I wish they'd quit our beloved party - make it REAL

[Lilith Velkor]

68. Bill's right

If the party had any goddamn sense it wouldn't let the Republicans get away with ratfucking it, but no.

They don't seem to want to win.

[New Dawn]

69. The Clintons need to get out of politics

Bill Clinton is also no "expert" on winning elections. The reason he won in 1992 was because of Ross Perot.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

74. Eat us! Hey, it's Thanksgiving Day! Eat us, we make a nice buffet!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIufyg09WnQ

Eat us! Hey, its Thanksgiving Day!
Eat us, we make a nice buffet!
We lost the race with Farmer Ed,
eat us 'cause we're good and dead.
White man or red man from east, north or south,
chop off our legs, and put 'em in your mouth!

Eat me!
Sautéed or barbecued!
Eat me!
We once were pets but now we're food!
We won't stay fresh for very long!
So eat us before we finish this song!
Eat us before we finish this song!

[Politicalboi]

76. We are still

Talking about FL and MI when ALL of the candidates agreed that FL and MI would not count. And now that Hillary is losing she wants them to count. I tell ya if Obama acted like the Clinton's if he was behind in EVERYTHING like Hillary is I would not support him. And he would be laughed right off the stage if he tried to do what the Clinton's are doing. If Obama said "Hillary can't win the male vote" she needs to be home taking care of her family and baking cookies. Or do you really want a woman to handle your tax dollars. Hell Hillary will probably spend it all on shopping or getting her hair done. Well at least we know what she doesn't do.

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=ldpvm

[Tommy_Carcetti]

77. Flamebait n/t

[madfloridian]

78. From First Read...Bill Clinton bashing party rules. Appears to accuse Dean of favoritism.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/14/1020792.aspx

"MISSOULA, MT -- Bill Clinton today made an expanded and direct argument for seating Florida and Michigan delegates, suggesting his wife is being punished and arguing that Obama's campaign opposed a re-vote.

“I never thought it would be the Democratic Party that didn’t want to count votes in Florida,” he said at a rally at the University of Montana. “I thought that was a Republican strategy -- or strategery as the case may be. And I just ask you all this, do you really believe Florida would be getting this kind of treatment if the vote had turned out the other way?”

For more than six minutes, Clinton went through the timeline of how both states lost their delegates, and who was to blame. While he has made the case before, he placed new emphasis on it today, as it becomes clearer that seating the delegates from both states is one of the few remaining options to help Hillary Clinton defeat Obama.

Clinton said the removal of Florida and Michigan had a “superficial element of fairness” because Obama and John Edwards took their name off the ballot. But, he added, they did that because Hillary Clinton was ahead in the polls and there was a “very organized and funded campaign to get everyone to vote uncommitted.” However, Clinton herself said last fall that the Michigan contest was "not going to count for anything."

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. He's still "triangulating" towards the Republicans.

Which is exactly he got into office, in the first place.

[demokatgurrl]

80. He's right, you know. the VOTERS in FLA did not

create the fuckedup situation. The SUPERDELEGATES DID!

[flpoljunkie]

81. Madfl, Bill's at it again today in Montana! He has totally jumped the shark!

(Sorry, I see you posted part of this already, but I would add that Terry McAuliffe today on MSNBC with Andrea Mitchell said Hillary's was now ahead in the popular vote. Interesting, Andrea ignored that little gem.)

Bill Clinton expands on FL, MI

Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 2:38 PM by Mark Murray

From NBC/NJ's Matthew E. Berger

MISSOULA, MT -- Bill Clinton today made an expanded and direct argument for seating Florida and Michigan delegates, suggesting his wife is being punished and arguing that Obama's campaign opposed a re-vote.

“I never thought it would be the Democratic Party that didn’t want to count votes in Florida,” he said at a rally at the University of Montana. “I thought that was a Republican strategy -- or strategery as the case may be. And I just ask you all this, do you really believe Florida would be getting this kind of treatment if the vote had turned out the other way?”

For more than six minutes, Clinton went through the timeline of how both states lost their delegates, and who was to blame. While he has made the case before, he placed new emphasis on it today, as it becomes clearer that seating the delegates from both states is one of the few remaining options to help Hillary Clinton defeat Obama.

“Hillary offered a revote in Michigan; we offered a revote in Florida,” Clinton said. “In both cases, the other campaign said, ‘Nope, no re-vote, we will just see what to do when this thing is over.’ Why would we put Michigan at risk and pretend that these people didn't show up and pretend that somehow she is responsible and the voters themselves are responsible and she should be punished for what intermediaries did?”

Clinton said the removal of Florida and Michigan had a “superficial element of fairness” because Obama and John Edwards took their name off the ballot. But, he added, they did that because Hillary Clinton was ahead in the polls and there was a “very organized and funded campaign to get everyone to vote uncommitted.” However, Clinton herself said last fall that the Michigan contest was "not going to count for anything."

“So if we are gonna decide a closely held contest, it shouldn’t be decided with those kind of tactics and those kind of principles,” he said. “This should be a great empowerment election, and how ironic it would be, if after so many people have been empowered through internet giving and active participation, if the thing would be decided by the most disempowering top-down, and I think mindless decision I can recall in a month of Sundays.”

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/14/1020792.aspx

[madfloridian]

82. He's really going too far.

So tell me...doesn't this sound like he was accusing Dean of favoritism?

"I never thought it would be the Democratic Party that didn’t want to count votes in Florida,” he said at a rally at the University of Montana. “I thought that was a Republican strategy -- or strategery as the case may be. And I just ask you all this, do you really believe Florida would be getting this kind of treatment if the vote had turned out the other way?”

[flpoljunkie]

86. Bill is, no doubt, unhappy with the DNC, but he omits Michigan got the same treatment as Florida--

for not following the rules. Of course, Hillary wasn't concerned about counting the votes in Florida and Michigan until she needed them--it's not about having our votes count in Florida and Michigan, it's about having the votes count for Hillary Clinton.

It's too bad they cannot see the damage they are causing in their quest to return to the White House--not only to the party, but to themselves.

[Cha]

83. bil clinton, convicted LIAR.

silver tongued, poisonous politician.

[ORDem]

85. Bill! Hey, Bill! Yeah, over here... see this? It's the world's tiniest violin

and it's playing just for YOU! :nopity:

[tbyg52]

87. Shut up, Bill. Just. Shut. Up. nt

[YDogg]

88. "I did not have sex with Florida and Michigan"

[krkaufman]

90. Where are all the Clinton supporters who were berating Obama's "Reagan" comments ...

... now that Bill Clinton is denigrating the Democratic Party and promoting the good sense of the Republican Party?

"That's what any political party with any sense would do."

[cstanleytech]

94. Does what BILL Clinton says really matter to many of you here

or is it because you are obama supporters? I'm just wondering is all.
Anyway I think its pretty much over for Hillary because of Edwards supporting Obama, lets hope he can beat McCain as 4 more years of Bush policies would be 4 years to long.