O's 'change' is gonna be tough with the establishment's Kerry, Kennedy, Richardson, Edwards in tow

[splat]

Owing all the old guard doesn't leave much room for anything new.

Hillary would bring real change -- women (!) and none of those old warhorses!

[saltpoint]

1. Women aren't new. They've been around for quite some time, looks like

to me.

I disagree with your initial assumption that the Democrats you name do not endorse the reforms Sen. Obama represents and proposes.

I believe instead that that's why they endorsed him in the first place.

And it looks to me as if they made the right call.

[madame defarge]

2. Hillary brings Bill.

That's not a change. That's regression. That's the '90's, a different century.

[babylonsister]

3. I relish the idea of Obama having the 'old guard' to turn to

for advice. It's the best of both worlds yet they're not at all trying to step on Obama's message.

[leftofcool]

4. It's the good ole boys club

[stillcool]

13. I have no problem with my Senators, and Congressman..

they consistently vote for my interests. I don't understand why "Democrats" berate those elected officials with the best voting records. Why is that?

[blm]

20. You prefer Clintons alliance with Bushes. I prefer Obama's alliance with OPEN GOVERNMENT DEMS

And don't even PRETEND that Hillary couldn't have known how much protection Bill provided BushInc throughout the 90s.

She was tapped to CONTINUE that protection. Clintons protect the Bushes. They always have and always will.

And they think that there are plenty of Dems who are dumb enough to fall for it again.

[SeaLyons]

40. It's the "Loosers" Club...

[ClassWarrior]

5. No old warhorses? What about Mondale, Ferraro, Glenn, Clark, Kerrey, and Vilsack?

Not to mention the Big Dog himself.

NGU.

[cali]

6. Kerry, Kenned, Leahy, Dodd, etc

are part of solution- and have been for a long time. They're the liberal/progressive wing of the dem party, and their collective experience and long adherence to dem and liberal principles is valuable. It's absurd to maintain that because of their long service they're somehow part of the problem. I esteem those folks and hope Obama takes many a cue from them.

As for real change being somehow gender based, sorry that's just sexist nonsense.

[karynnj]

I wish we could recommend comments! You say it all

A candidate in line with the collective values of these 4 men is a change from where we've been in the divisive last 2 decades. Between them the things they stand for are fairer domestic economic policies, a saner foreign policy than we've had sibce the 1960s, and a respect for the constitution. (It is striking that these are same 4 men who gave the strongest speeches against what we called the "torture bill". What was clear in each case was that the idea that America does not torture was not even political but something they believed to the bottom of their souls.)

[mckeown1128]

7. Endorsements don't mean he isn't going to bring chance...

but you know that. Your post is meaningless. May I point out that Hillary has establishment support too, so your claim that she would bring real change is negated by the previous sentence in your post. If your gonna spam with anti-Obama sentiment...at least make it interesting.

[saltpoint]

8. Meaningful reform in any construct doesn't mean you line up people

over 65 years of age and shoot them.

A president represents all the people, across all demographic borders.

His or her job is to erase those borders and and walls and meld the whole thing into a workable, effective republic.

That's why the job is so stressful to begin with and why I admire many other cultrues -- Native American and Chinese, just to name two -- who revere older members of their society.

Gore Vidal is also chronologically old but he's one of the most liberal folks who ever stepped onto a debate stage.

If President Obama intends reform, it is likely to take the form of long-needed legislation, and most of the names you list are going to be the people he asks to help shove it thru the Congress.

[frogcycle]

9. nonsense

utter nonsense

That 'old guard' is the team who will get things done. The POTUS will be the boss. Neither one of the candidates can 'bring change' singlehandedly.

The suggestion implicit in your post that having an all-woman Executive Branch would somehow cause "change" is an absurdity. There are plenty of rightwing women, plenty of female corporatists. Your premise is sexist on the face of it, and has no more validity than would saying Obama would bring change because he is from Hawaii.

Please read my disclaimer below before flaming me as a blind Obama fan.

[bowens43]

10. complete nonsense.

what did you expect, that congress would be purged and that Obama would not interact with any of the existing members?

This is a truly ridiculous argument.

[NJmaverick]

11. You complain about a few party establishment types with Obama

Then Hillary, who is PART OF THE ESTABLISHMENT, you say can bring real change. How on earth do you figure that? It makes no sense.

[cali]

14. Don't buy into the OP's "argument"

The people he's maligning are some of the most progressive people in D.C.

[cyndensco]

43. And let's face it,

If the people the OP is maligning had supported hillary, the OP would not be maligning them...

[flor de jasmim]

12. This "establishment" that you mention has been FIGHTING for CHANGE and deserves a real shot at it!

This group is NOT an obstacle to change.

[saltpoint]

15. Kerry and Kennedy are sitting U.S. Senators from Massachusetts.

Before posting on this board to slam them through mischaracterization, I think it would be instructive for you to ask Democrats in Texas and Idaho and South Carolina if they would trade the Senators they have now for either or both Kerry and Kennedy.

My guess is they'd be REAL interested in that trade.

[Rose Siding]

16. Eat sweeter grapes.

And how is Hillary herself, regardless of what's in her pants, anything but the old guard?

[blogslut]

17. Ha!

You really don't know what you're talking about. (Some) of the men you named may be old but they are hardly "establishment".

[blm]

18. If Bill Clinton sided with Kerry instead of Bush1 there would BE NO Bush2, no 9-11, and no Iraq war.

The ONLY reason Hillary has this shot is because Clintons protect the Bushes and the powerful elite. They always have and always will.

Do you REALLY want to go on record at a Democratic site and claim you WANT Kerry's longtime efforts to expose government corruption to be buried permanently?

Do you want to go on record at a Democratic site and claim you PREFER closed government protection of secrecy and privilege that comes with a Clinton presidency instead of the open government advocacy that comes from lawmakers like Kerry, Leahy and Kennedy?

[high density]

19. Huh? He owes nothing to them

Why would you think otherwise? All of those politicians stand on their own and I have to wonder what you are trying to insinuate here.

Is this another guilt by association trip? Give us a break already.

[sfaprog]

21. Oh, so who's this fresh-faced kid "Hillary" you keep talking about?

"No old warhorses"?!?!? :eyes: I have nothing but rolling eyes for that ridiculousness... :eyes:

[Eurobabe]

22. What crack are you smokin?

:eyes:

[stillcool]

23. I suppose you would prefer...

those "New Democrats"? Why have a "Democratic Party", if you want a Republican majority?

New Democrat Movement

GROUP

The right wing current of the Democratic party, characterized by its neoliberal economic policies, support of Israel, desire to increase defense spending, and links to heavy donors and fundraisers.

Believes that "left-wing" positions are not politically viable. Describes itself as "moderate and pro-growth". Probably responsible for erosion of the Democratic Party's historical labor and minority base due to support of treaties like NAFTA, lack of support for affirmative action and poverty programs, and their siphoning away of campaign funds from minority groups.

At the national level, the movement was founded by the Democratic Leadership Council (501c4 educational non-profit, founded 1984) and includes the House New Democrat Coalition (founded 1997), the Senate New Democrat Coalition (founded 2000), the New Democrat Network PAC (founded 1996), the misnamed Progressive Policy Institute (501c4 think tank, "Bill Clinton's idea mill", founded 1989), and the umbrella funding group The Third Way Foundation (501c3 non-profit, founded 1996).

Since coming to power within the Democratic Party with Bill Clinton's presidency, the New Democrats/DLC have worked towards "essentially the same purpose as the Christian Coalition... to pull a broad political party dramatically to the right" according to John Nichols of The Progressive.

DLC operatives actively worked to sabotage Howard Dean's candidacy for the US Presidency in 2004, claiming that the "far-left" Democrat was wrong to attack George W. Bush's tax cuts and national security policies.

Corporate contributors to the DLC and New Democratic Network include Bank One, Citigroup, Dow Chemical, DuPont, General Electric, Health Insurance Corporation of America, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Philip Morris, RJR Nabisco, Chevron, Prudential Foundation, Amoco Foundation, AT&T, Morgan Stanley, Occidental Petroleum, Raytheon, and many other Fortune 500 companies.

The New Democrat Movement is sometimes referred to as the Dixiecrat movement due to the DLC's origination in the southern states, their desire to get rid of affirmative action, and their membership's overwhelming whiteness.

" shift the primary focus from racism, the traditional enemy without, to self-defeating patterns of behavior " --Chuck Robb, 2nd DLC Chairman, Governor & Senator of the Great State of Virginia, White Man, 1986.

"I'm from the democratic wing of the Democrat Party" --Paul Wellstone, progressive Democrat, criticizing the New Democrat Movement.

"Democrats for the Leadership Class" --Jesse Jackson, progressive black Democrat, describing the DLC.

[Pryderi]

24. Who's the gum chewer in the following?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX6CyIwGYoM

[ProSense]

25. Here's what you will not get with Obama:

The DLC, Lieberman and Hillary



Get on the change wagon.

[ClassWarrior]

26. Here's what else you won't get...

NGU.

[rucky]

27. change we deserve?

[WA98296]

28. The change is coming, we're getting rid of the DLC way, starting wth HRC's run.

[AtomicKitten]

29. I'll put Obama's "warhorses" up any day against the Clinton Good Old Boy coalition.

[Texas Hill Country]

30. dont forget about Carter

[Renew Deal]

31. Vote for me because no one likes me,

That's a good one.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[DemGa]

33. I still don't know what "change" Obama is talking about

What has Obama changed? I see no substance or precedent for change from Obama.

[cyndensco]

45. I'll welcome breaking the bush/clinton/bush... cycle.

[snooper2]

34. Hillary INC.

Is about as inside washington as you can get...

Jeeeezzzzzz....

Up is Down, Black is Blue, Night is Day, :rofl:



GOBAMA!

[SeaLyons]

35. Yup, he's going to be a busy man keeping up with all

the obligations...(if he get's elected).

[DevonRex]

36. So men are bad and women are good? nt

[Forkboy]

37. LOL...this went over like a fire at an orphange.

Dumbass.

[SoxFan]

38. That '70s Show

Walter Mondale
Geraldine Ferraro
John Glenn
Dick Gephardt
Rob "Meathead" Reiner
Billy Jean King
Elton John
Barbra Streisand

[FlaGranny]

39. Those people are

as anti-establishment as Washington gets. They're the establishment mavericks. You don't make sense.

[julialnyc]

41. Not at all. They chose Obama, the new guy.... it wasn't some pledge of loyalty owed for things

Obama owes them nothing and they don't want anything in return (okay maybe some of them are hoping they may get VP or a cabinet position, but they certainly weren't "payed" for their endorsement).

All the people you mentioned are progressive democrats who see in Obama what his supports see.......... they also see that Obama is going to deliver them a bigger majority more easily.


Just look at Hillary's campaign staff..... it's filled with losers who were loyalists. If somehow she could overtake this thing it would ONLY be with the help of some big wigs who she would owe HUGE payback. Hillary has not shown any evidence of bringing real change and her losing campaign is the first place to look if you need an example of why.

[Cha]

42. The lying, pandering, word twister, smearing, lying hilary..what a tragic joke

..

[AllentownJake]

44. So that is how we are spinning the superdelegate difference now

:rofl:

[WA98070]

46. It's a little late to argue that either candidate isn't tied to the "old guard"....

Those who don't, got dumped by the "Old Guard" before they had a chance.

70 % of Americans when given the issues matched Kucinich; and Nadar is the true "change" (to mention two) but MSM gave them no chance.

Now we have a "Hope" for change versus a "Really I'll be the change you want. Change is my specialty."

[book_worm]

47. All those old warhorses as you say would be endorsing Hill if she were the nominee too, how stupid.

by the way, according to a new Quinnipiac national poll Obama wins by 7 and Hill wins by 5 vs. McCain and Obama does about as well with women as Hill and as well with white voters.

[Unbowed]

48. They aren't in tow. They are the old guard making way for the trail blazers.

Hillary on the other hand, is getting blindsided because she isn't capable of seeing the change our country is going through. It's not about her. It's about us: America and Americans.

There is a purpose for old guard. There is a passing of the torch going on. Barack Obama will use the experience and wisdom of all the old guard to make things better for the country, but he will owe no one. That includes Clinton. You won't see her on the ticket as this fall. He isn't going to drag along that old war horse, that's for certain.

Clinton is certainly more of an old war horse than either Richardson or Edwards.