Hillary will be the VP Nominee!

[kennetha]

Here is a prediction. If Hillary Clinton doesn't capture the nomination -- which, barring upsets in Oregon, SD and Montana, she seems unlikely to do -- will be the VP nominee. There is an inevitable and irresistible political logic, inexorably driving in that direction. By the end of the primary she will almost certainly be ahead of Obama in the popular vote. If and when Florida and Michigan are seated, she will be within a 100 delegates of him. Her supporters are just as passionate about her as Obama's are about him. Between the two of them they will have garnered nearly 40, 000, 000 votes -- an amazing number. The best way to ensure that the vast, vast majority of those voters remain committed and engaged through the GE is a joint ticket. The best way to ensure that some significant number of those voters sit out the GE or go for McCain is for Obama to stiff arm Clinton.

Some Obama supporters, both on this board and among the chattering class on TV and even some politicians like Teddy want to resist that logic. What seems to stand in their way of bowing to the inevitable politica logic is their deep personal antipathy toward Hillary. But they aren't thinking straight. Some on this board say things like choosing Hillary would undercut Obama's message of "change." But that's just silly. If we're talking change relative to Bush and the Repugnant era that is coming to a close, Clinton on her own would represent radical change, a radical departure from Repugnant policies. And Obama and Clinton would represent an amazing sea-change in American politics. Plus together they have the potential of stitching together a remarkably broad coalition.

Obama supporters are delusional if they think he's free to choose somebody else and if they think that choosing somebody else will achieve the same result. And the delusion is generated by pure antipathy toward all things Clinton. But that antipathy is just getting in the way of mature sober judgment.


Actually, I personally regard it as a test for Obama. If he doesn't choose Clinton, I will regard him as too small minded, to politically naive, and too arrogant to deserve my vote. Sometimes even would-be presidents have to swallow their pride, do things they would personally rather not do, for the good of the party and the country.

[ccharles000]

1. I hope she gets to be VP.

[Hope And Change]

2. And I will be the President!

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kennetha]

5. Stupid silly offensive remark

hardly deserves a response. But I can't sleep. So I'm responding despite my better judgment.

[goldcanyonaz]

8. and, who the fuck are you to say such things? some lowly voter?

[Alexander]

42. A "lowly" voter? You have such a low estimation of the voting public?

That explains a lot.

[billyoc]

53. This is a constant theme with the DLC and their supporters, the voters are a shame,

something deserving scorn and derision.

[billyoc]

51. That's "lowly New York voter" to you, cowgirl.

Clinton is finished here. You can run her for Senator in Arizona if you want.

[MyNameGoesHere]

58. Mass murderer? Ok Ok so it is open mic night at the moran improv i see.

If i said Obama is a terrorist how long would i last here? You are pretty much a sad case and YOU are the one that does not deserve to be here.

[Colobo]

4. Who knows what's gonna happen in that regard...

[chknltl]

26. I DOOOO like that picture

I had other notions as to a great ticket but after seeing the entire Edwards endorsement, (recorded it too!) I knew who my dream ticket would be! John Edwards will bring in the Blue Collar vote and please a great many progressives because he is a bit to the left of Obama! Corporatists are the biggest thing WRONG with America right now, pretty much all of our ails can be traced to them imo. Edwards is a foe to the corporatists.

Senator Obama has given me back my hope and when I see him and Senator Edwards standing side by side I dare to hope for even more.

:patriot:yes we can :patriot:

[MattBaggins]

66. Can't run two metrosexuals on the same ticket.

Obama/Edwards won't happen because that will be how the GOP paints them.

[ima_sinnic]

6. so you're just another Clinton supporter who is going to hold her vote for ransom unless Billary

is on the ticket?

Well, be prepared to vote for McCain, or Nader, or whoever your deluded heart desires, because IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

That's all Obama needs, the plotting, scheming, backstabbing Hillary making deals behind his back with people like Uribe 24/7, scheming against him, undermining his presidency (oh, subtly of course), running her little 3-ring media circus -- and what about Bill? How does he fit into all this? I know it's the Clintons' dream to move back into the White House so Bill can take up once again with his groupies and "coach" Obama while Hill plays wannabe Rambo and plots worldwide obliteration -- but it's not going to happen.

If you and another person are both up for promotion, and the other person starts spreading false rumors about you, gossips behind your back, creates all sorts of dissent and division in the company, even goes to the higher ups with threats and bribes and intimidation if he or she doesn't get the promotion, tries to change the rules in the middle of the decision process to favor him or herself, lies about this or that to make himself look good, plots to see your downfall, even says someone from a competing company is more prepared than you are to take that position -- and you get the promotion --are you going to then turn around and make that person your next in command?? YOU'D HAVE TO BE A DAMN FOOL! You'd choose someone who had proven loyal to you and good to work with.

Obama will choose the person with whom he can work the best while appealing to a broad range of voters --NOT Hillary, with her 55+% disapproval (I'm sure her disapproval is more like 60% or even more now, that 55% was before she started her trash-talk and "obliterating Iran" bullshit).

Just because a candidate comes in "second" in the primaries does not make that person "automatically" the VP candidate. That choice is up to Obama. One day Operation Chaos will be forced to put this absolutely INANE IDEA to rest also.

[kennetha]

10. This is nonsense

Your analogy makes no sense. This is a COMPETITIVE POLITICAL CAMPAIGN. As such campaigns go, it's been remarkably civil. And you have no evidence whatsoever that Hillary would be working behind Barack's back. Look, they are on the same page on just about every issue. His agenda and her agenda are almost the same. What would she have to gain by working against him.

Again, you are just letting Hillary hatred cloud your judgment. If your candidate's judgment is as clouded as yours is, he doesn't deserve to be president.

[ima_sinnic]

17. "remarkably civil"? "not a Muslim, AS FAR AS I KNOW"?

"I would have renounced Wright a long time ago" (paraphrasing)
"elitist"
oh, and the best one: FORT WORTH, TEXAS, Mar 1, 2008 -- Hillary Clinton told reporters that both she and the presumtive Republican nominee John McCain offer the experience to be ready to tackle any crisis facing the country under their watch, but Barack Obama simply offers more rhetoric. "I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say," she said. "He’s never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002."
A "competitive campaign" does not mean she should smear a fellow Democrat and big up the Republican! What the hell is wrong with you, that you think she's "on the same page" as Obama?

Hillary is a corporate kiss-ass -- she will sell our bridges, highways, and airports to Dubai. She has worked tirelessly as the Senator from Punjab to make sure YOUR job goes to India. And she wants to "obliterate" 70 million men, women, and children.

She takes money from Big Pharma, Big Media, Big Lobbyists of every stripe, and she gives them what they want -- meanwhile all of Obama's funds are from We The People.

After talking to Obama campaign workers about this issue, I will bet any amount of money that he will NOT choose that rambo-wannabe, that divisive, shrill entitlement queen to be his VP. So give it a freakin rest. He's TOO SMART for that.

[kennetha]

21. You are hardly worth having a conversation with.

[ima_sinnic]

40. good, because there's nothing to "converse" about

your twisted wish to see the Democrats ridiculed and humiliated by putting that desperate person carrying ten tons of scandal and baggage is NOT going to happen. With so many good Dems, real Dems, not fake, Republican Dems like Hillary, to choose from, who haven't smeared him, even in "poltical competition," who have remained loyal to the Democratic Pary, why the HELL should he choose her? Her career in politics is pretty much over. She has no monetary support and she has shown herself to be a dirty, disgusting player who cries foul when the rules aren't changed to make her win.

[Tesha]

48. What did the Clinton's do *FOR* the Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate in 2006?

What did they do against him?

Hint: The Democratic candidate *WASN'T* Joe Lieberman.

Tesha

[EnviroBat]

61. Your candidates loss has "clouded YOUR judgement".

You've spoken your peace, now sit down. Because it's what YOU want doesn't mean it's gonna happen Sparky. It would be foolish and irresponsible for Barack to even consider running with a conniving, backstabber like Hil-Liary.

Get over it. Go post this shit at Hillary's44.org where it really belongs. You're wasting bandwidth with your delusional crap.

[Boz]

7. Have you ever been to the convention, if she cant pull the presidency from the SD

She doesn't have the clout to pull the VP.

[goldcanyonaz]

9. Have you?

[Boz]

22. Yes I have thank you,

[WeDidIt]

11. If Hillary demands the Veep spot

it would be miserable for her.

She would have no other duties than to be the spare wheel in the Senate in case of a tie vote.

She would get no White House office.

She would ahve no other duties other than to wait for something to happen to Barack.

It would be a miserable existance as she'd have even less power than she does today in the Senate.

Anything beyond the spare wheel power is 100% determined by the president, and demanding the veep spot would result in the president giving her absolutely no power and absolutely nothing to do.

[kennetha]

12. It's not a matter of her demanding.

If Obama is at all intelligent and not blinded by arrogance and pride, he will see the writing on the wall and will offer her the VP slot. And he will want her to be a integral part of the team -- the way Gore was in the Clinton WH, the way Mondale was in the Carter WH. Only a willful pride, arrogance and stupidity could lead to his not seeing that. If he is that prideful and arrogant, he doesn't deserve the office.

[WeDidIt]

16. It would be a disaster for Obama to ask her to be on the ticket

She does not fit in with the overall theme of his campaign. She is not change, she is status quo and that means she can never be a part of his administration.

This is why the only way she gets the veep spot is to demand it in a floor fight at the convention. If that happens, she will have no office in the whtie house and her duties will be only to be the spare wheel in the senate and to wait for something to happen to Barack.

She will end up the most pathetic political figure since Admas was Washington's veep.

[kennetha]

19. In what sense does Clinton represent the status quo?

this is nonsense. Even Obama has dropped this meme from his campaign. Hillary would represent profound change over the current status quo.

[WeDidIt]

23. I dunno, maybe eight years in the white house

She's the old politics.

There is no way at all that Obama will ask her to be veep. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch.

There is only one way that Hillary Clinton will be the veep and that will be to start a floor fight for the position at the convention. If that's how she gets it I guarantee that she will not want what she gets out of that deal.

[kennetha]

24. First Female presidential candidate with a serious shot to win or first female VP

represents the "old" politics?

A progressive agenda, for Universal Health insurance, for a "green"" economy, for ending the war in Iraq.

That's the "old" politics. Whatever are you talking about?

[WeDidIt]

27. She's definitley old politics

it's a matter of the approach she takes to politics.

There is no way her old politics fits in with Obama's new wave.

[kennetha]

30. Explain, please, the difference between Hillary's "old" approach and Obama's "new"

Let's see, political campaigning is about mounting a case for yourself and against your opponent. They both have done that.

Political campaigning is about building broad-based coalitions. Check They both have done that.

Political campaigning is about organizing and mobilizing. Check. They both have done that.

Governing is a different thing. The Clinton's were sometimes brilliant at governing. They rescued the democratic party. they took welfare and it's racial divisiveness off the table. they mounted the first sustained attempt at National Health insurance in American history. they made us respected citizens of the world through their diplomatic efforts. But at the same time, they used force to good effect in Bosnia and Kosovo (which I initially opposed, but which worked out extremely well). They brought us the first surplus in decades and presided over a booming economy. If that's "old" politics, I'll take it.

Sometimes in both campaigning and governing, you've got to be willing to stick it to your opponents. The Clintons know how to do that. If Obama doesn't know when and how to do that, he better learn fast --otherwise he'll be an ineffectual Jimmy Carter type.

[WeDidIt]

52. Old approach vgoes for old money

Obama's new approach put together a coalition of 1.5 million donors instead of going after a few large donors.

Old approach politics lets it boil donw to just a few contests in states like Ohio and Florida.

The New poltiics takes ti to all fifty states.

Hillary Clinton is old politics and represents the status quo.

[bowens43]

14. especially when it's refused.

[Boz]

28. Her clout to be the VP is not there. They tried already by pressuring Pelosi IT FAILED

The only way a person is forced onto the slot is what they can bring to the table, not politically, when its forced its never about the peoples representation.

Its about fundraising networks and beltway and Union support and strings and favors.

He already has every bargaining chip she has covered, he doesn't have the paybacks owed by hillary.

All you have to do is look at what happened when the Machine tried to force Hillary ahead by threatening Pelosi and the party, it didn't work, in fact more money was raised the next day to replace the old machine that the old machine had raised in months.

Shes got no clout, no aces to play, game over.

[bowens43]

13. lets hope not, we're trying to WIN the election , not lose.

well, hillary might be trying to make us lose so she has a shot 2008 but the rest of us hope to win. Obama doesn't need to be tied to that boat anchor.

[kennetha]

15. Another silly, stupid, juvenile remark

Do Obama supporters ever look beyond their personal feelings? I know you don't like Hillary. Some of you seem even to despise her. Don't quite know why. But the reality is that Clinton is an amazingly strong candidate who would probably win the election, with a larger electoral vote margin, than Obama. So how could she possibly be a drag on the ticket? Sounds like the people most likely to defect if Clinton was on the ticket are diehard Obama supporters like you.

[lanlady]

18. god I hope not

Pardon me for being "too small minded, politically naive, and too arrogant" but I don't want the Queen of Pander on the ticket.

[kennetha]

20. Hope for your candidate sake

that he isn't as blinded by irrational personal antipathy as you are. If he is, he loses.

[ima_sinnic]

38. my my, a real seer -- I have bookmarked this as yet another

ridiculous prediction. The only way "he loses" is if people vote for McCain -- and I'm sure you're not going to be one of them, right? :eyes: along with Bush's 19%? At this point McCain would be creamed by a turnip, the people are so fed up with Republicans. Just because Hillary -- who would be like a lead weight on Obama -- won't be on the ticket is NOT going to stop people from voting for Obama (well, maybe foot-stomping Clintonistas, who won't vote for anybody but the Queen) -- and Hillary on the ticket would bring out every repuke to vote AGAINST that ticket. You haven't been awake for the past 10 years? You haven't heard the rabid Hillary hate among the repukes, and how much they want her to run so they can vote against her? And how much they want her to run against McCain, so they can bring out their warehouse of slime and scandal to use against her? (somehow, I think you are all too aware of this ...)

[BeyondGeography]

25. She (and Bill) trashed the guy too much to be on the ticket

Republican attack commercial #1 (using Hillary's words):
What are Barack Obama's qualifications to be C-in-C? John McCain is qualified. Barack Obama has a speech he made in 2002.

Republican attack #2 (using Bill's words):
Barack Obama? He's a roll of the dice.

Republican attack #3 (using Hillary's words):
Barack Obama? He's a leap of faith.

Republican attack #4 (roll the tape):
It's 3 a.m. in the morning...

Republican attack #5 (roll the tape):
"He wouldn't have been MY pastor..."

Etc., etc.

There's plenty of precedent for rivals getting together on the same ticket, but the Clintons' rhetoric in this campaign makes it EXTRA difficult. Ronald Reagan picked George H.W. Bush after the latter called Reagan's policies "voodoo economics." But Bush never questioned Reagan's qualifications for the job in the very fundamental way that HillBilly has. Big problem, not to mention all the vetting of the Clintons that hasn't happened in the Democratic primary and which would happen if we put them on display in the general.

:thumbsdown:

[susankh4]

29. "If he doesn't choose Clinton....

I will regard him as too small minded, to politically naive, and too arrogant to deserve my vote."

You said a mouthful there!

And I am with ya 100%.

If the great "uniter" cannot unite his party.... he can take a long walk in the woods as far as I am concerned.

[DangerDave921]

31. No freaking chance

Obama would be an absolute moron to put her on the ticket. She is about the most calculated, driven, obsessed political candidate I've ever seen. Do you think she could take a back seat and keep her mouth shut when disagreed with Obama? Hillary is not VP material. She would demand the limelight. She would want her positions adopted. The focus would always be on Hillary and Bill, rather than on Obama.

[ima_sinnic]

36. yes, exactly -- but the little hillary foot-stompers, think she's somehow going to take a back seat

this VP crap just won't die. There's no way he's going to choose someone from the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton drug-dealing, arms-peddling, BCCI Bank rug-sweeping, scandal-ridden dynasty. Poor widdle hillary "supporters" (read: Operation Chaos trolls) will just have to scurry back under their rocks and continue thumb sucking until 2012, when they can start plotting once again how to divide the Democrats.

[DangerDave921]

47. LOL

You took it further than I did.

I just think it would be the height of stupidity for a president to pick someone as VP who has even more ambition for the office than the actual president. VP is -- by definition -- a subservient role. Does anyone here think Hillary fits that bill? Of course not, but they envision some kind of dual presidency which ain't gonna happen.

And if I was Obama and had Hillary as my VP, I'd sleep with one eye open and have all my food tasted before eating. LOL. (Just kidding folks!)

[cali]

32. Perhaps. I think Obama will certainly consider it. He may or may not

offer it. And she may or may not accept it. if she feels this was her only shot at the presidency, and that running at age 68 isn't something she wants to do, she may not accept it.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[chknltl]

43. GrovelBot: The non partisan DUer in the great Clinton/Obama debate

Yet suitably flame-retardant. Here is to you GrovelBot:toast:

[asthmaticeog]

34. "I personally regard it as a test for Obama."

"If he doesn't choose Clinton, I will regard him as too small minded, to politically naive, and too arrogant to deserve my vote."

There are no reasons other then arrogance to choose someone else? Like for example someone whose repellent attacks on the candidate aren't certain to be a feature in GOP ads this fall? Just checking.

[JTFrog]

35. You folks have an endless supply of hoops you expect this man to jump through.

He has won the popular vote.
He has won the most delegates.
He has won the most superdelegates.
He has won the most states.
He has the biggest donor base.

You already tried to give him a black enough test, a patriot enough test and a religious enough test.

Your little tests leave no doubt that you are too small minded, politically naive and arrogant to realize what delusional really is.

Denial..... It ain't just a river in Egypt.

[lojasmo]

37. I deny your reality, and substitute my own. EOM.

[union_maid]

39. It's not going to be personal

Whether Hillary get the nod or someone else does is not going to be either a gesture of conciliation or of pique. It's going to be a result of discussions with the DNC and internal polling. Of the qualified people, who best can deliver at least one state that Obama couldn't get on his own? Will his chances be better or worse with Clinton on the ticket? That'll be the determining factor, I'd imagine.

If he needs to pick her, he will. If he doesn't want to, I doubt if it would be because of the campaign. More likely it'll be because no president would want an former president as his co-vp and right now it seems if you get Hillary, you get Bill. It would create a very difficult situation for a new president. If he does, what I'd like to see is that it's done with an agreement that she jettison every bit of staff that ran her campaign into the ground. No Mark Penn, Ickes, or the rest of them. We don't need those guys damaging our chances in the GE.

In any case, Obama's going to go into the convention knowing what's going to happen. You can bet on that.

[chknltl]

41. Boat Anchor reference above in another post was correct.

The Clinton name among Republicans is only slightly better than the name Hitler. I personally know three supporters of the Republican Party who have ONLY voted straight ticket Republican since IKE and perhaps earlier. Each one of these will be voting FOR Senator Obama because they hate SOMETHING that bush has done and they they despise mCcain as being a fake Republican. All three of these voters promised me that they would hold their noses and vote for mCcain if a Clinton got the nomination.

This story is being played out again and again and again across America. Adding Senator Clinton's name to the ticket will cost us MORE votes than not adding her name to the ticket. Senator Clinton needs to not only bow out graciously soon but she MUST publicly decline all notions of her desiring that position. THAT is what would be best for our party right now.

I see your unwillingness in above threads to face charges your fellow DUers have leveled against Senator Clinton. Sorry to see that. I agree with the charge that she is a corporatist. Do your own research: google the words Hillary Clinton Military Industrial Complex and come to your own conclusions. Then tell me in all honesty why that is a good thing to have tied to your VP choice.

I further agree with the charge that she is at the very least a saber rattler when it comes to a possible war with Iran. That particular charge does not sit well with a war weary electorate looking for change. Do you really want to antagonize the entire Middle East like that? Obama wants to talk with these folks NOT INTIMIDATE THEM INTO SUBMISSION. A further boat anchor imo.

I add to this that her husband has offended quite a few of our black community during this race, yet another boat anchor. I could go on, others above me have done that, some better than I, but I want you to know that this is NOT about hate as you may suggest, at least NOT in my case. This is about a love for America, her democracy, her place in this world and it is about our world. Senator Clinton as a VP has betrayed my confidence to be of any use in the above concerns. I don't hate Senator Clinton, I just have HOPE for a better place for you and me and ESPECIALLY OUR CHILDREN.
c

[hokies4ever]

44. If he does choose her

he will be regarded as politically weak and a puppet that can be manipulated at will.

[shadowknows69]

45. Another extortionist from the Clinton camp

Can't we start tombstoning these despicable creatures?

[EnviroBat]

63. I agree. This tool is pathetic.

This whole "Barack had BETTER pick Hillary for VP, or I'm taking my ball and going home..." Childish bullshit.

[tekisui]

46. She won't have the popular vote.

And she won't have the delegate count. She has no claim on Obama's VP pick.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

49. That's your test for Obama? His choice of VP?

If he doesn't pick Clinton for veep, he doesn't earn your vote? Now who's being small-minded, naive, and arrogant?

Here's my test: If he gets the nomination, he has my vote in Nov. If Clinton gets the nomination, she has my vote. Regardless of who is in the number two slot on the ticket.

[dkf]

50. I....Highly....Doubt....It

[NorthCarolina]

54. Just say NO to the DLC and all it's members

including the Clinton's.

[DemVet]

56. Yeah, let's discount all those Democratic votes.

[NorthCarolina]

57. If they're DLC they're more Republican than Democratic

eom

[Kokonoe]

55. Ask not what your country can do for you...

Sometimes we have to swallow our pride, do things we would personally rather not do, for the good of the party and the country.

[EnviroBat]

59. Here, you may need these...

I so enjoy the last ditch hopes of those supporting a failure. "Well, if she can't be the president, we'll stomp our little feet and DEMAND that Barack puts her on the ticket"!

Really, really sad... Not going to happen.

[JNelson6563]

60. Ah, I love advice from keyboard commandos

and the pending judgments if major candidate who has run a historically successfully campaign doesn't do as said keyboard commando on obscure DB (with likely little to no real life experience in politics) demands.

Oy.

[GoesTo11]

62. Hope she can help the Obama campaign more than she did her own.

[newmajority]

64. Hillary could no more be Obama's VP than Jeb Bush could

And for the same reason.

[MattBaggins]

65. I am willing to accept Hillary as VP

But could you folks please quit with the lies that she will have the Popular Vote. You do not need to lie to try and make your case. In fact it hurts it.