E-mail I just got from Hillary:

[gateley]

Millions of voters in Florida and Michigan are depending on you to help make sure they have a voice in this race. Will you stand up for them today?

Thanks to your efforts, thanks to the hundreds of thousands of people who have already spoken out, the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee is meeting May 31 to make a decision about whether or not the votes in Michigan and Florida will count.

Now I need you to urge the DNC to make the right decision on May 31. I need you to remind them that in the Democratic Party, we count every vote.

Tell the Democratic National Committee to count the votes of Florida and Michigan.

On May 31, the DNC has a chance to make it clear that the people of Florida and Michigan have a voice in our party. The decision is especially critical given the important role these states will play in November.

And your voice could make the difference for the millions of people who went to the polls in those two states to make their choice for president.

Stand with me today and tell the DNC to count the votes in Florida and Michigan.

I have consistently said that every vote must count. It is such an important principle in our party. I really appreciate you standing up for the values we share.

Thank you,


Hillary Rodham Clinton

P.S. Forward this message on to your friends, and urge them to join you!

[DJ13]

1. Dear Hillary, and the good people of Michigan & Forida

[Apollo11]

10. Dear Rosa Parks - go and sit quietly at the back of the bus

Seeing as how you are such a huge fan of rules, I am sure you will approve this message!

:sarcasm:

[bobbert]

11. How are Rosa and Hillary at all related?

Horrible analogy.

[Apollo11]

12. Have you seen the post I was responding to (posted by DJ13)?

It implies that people who break rules should be attacked using military force.

[roguevalley]

61. humor. get it. humor.

[papau]

25. A fair del results split-as NONE campaigned in either state-gives Hill 111 more than O - she still -

Likely loses but no matter, the Obama fans are too busy continuing to spit and piss on her (as they have for a year) so as to stop a united party with Hill as VP.

In the old country getting even was always more important than helping someone get ahead because it would help you if they did - and the old farts - male and female - understand this and will act on it rather than help Obama win in November. Indeed it is becoming the only response for even those folks that have vote Dem for 50 years.

[JackORoses]

68. whenever I piss on Hillary, I think of you

[PoliticalAmazon]

28. They both slept with Bill? Just guessing... n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Why don't you ask Terry McAuliffe what he thinks?

Or, you could ask him what he thought about the same issue before the 2004 primaries.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/03/terry-mcauliffe-sang-different-tune.html

"I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/25/165935/668/909/503541

"If I allow you to do that, the whole system collapses"

"They will not get a credential. The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television."

[grytpype]

55. :eyes:

:eyes:

You're joking, right?

[my3boyz]

2. hahahaha...Yeah, Hillary..you won't like the response I sent. LOL

Oh and I sure will email it to my friends and ask them to do the same thing I did! LOL

[Zachstar]

3. Haha! Good idea!

[Joe the Revelator]

43. What is the email address? I'll add to this.

[skipos]

4. Hillary quotes

"I personally did not think it made any difference whether my name was
on the ballot. You know, It's clear this election they are having is
not going to count for anything." - Hillary Clinton, before the MI
primary

"I have consistently said that the votes cast in Florida and Michigan
in January should be counted. " - Hillary Clinton, after the MI
primary

[gateley]

5. Those two quotes are all that's needed. Thanks. nt

[havocmom]

6. Whoa, that exposes it pretty well

[Hope And Change]

7. Great quotes.Thanks.

[jsmirman]

8. Precisely. It's like "You keep using this word consistency, but I do not think it means what you

think it means."

:rofl:

[PoliticalAmazon]

29. Indigo Montoya, "The Princess Bride" n/t

[roguevalley]

62. it amazes me how much she doesn't get tape recorders, video

cams and the internet.

[Forkboy]

9. And that sums it up. Her and most of her supporters didn't give two shits about those votes.

Until they needed them, of course.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

21. And there it is:

[Cha]

41. Everyone needs to duck for sniper fire when hilary

starts talkin' "consistently".

[suston96]

13. Here is another quote: Who needs 2.3 million Democratic votes from FL and MI in Nov.? nt

[cliffordu]

14. Responded to wrong person, sorry

[suston96]

15. Whiner? Not so. I stayed awake during 5th Grade arithmetic.

Try this site and check out the electoral projections:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

[cliffordu]

16. I still responded to the wrong person, sorry....

N/A

[SemiCharmedQuark]

22. Clinton should not be pretending she gave a damn about FL and MI before she

needed them. This is *not* about their rights or she would have been fighting for them all along. This decision was in place since Fall 2007. She must think we're stupid.

[PoliticalAmazon]

30. She didn't give a rat's ass about FL's votes in the 2000 presidential election... n/t

[Terran]

26. If you think 2.3 million people are going to go vote for McCain

because of the Dem primaries, you are sadly mistaken. I doubt even 100 people feel that strongly about it, and most of them are posting here (and 98 of them are not FL or MI residents).

[Lord Helmet]

17. Dear Hilary: Why do you think you're exempt from the rules?

you're not

[suston96]

19. I could care less whether "Hillary is exempt" from the rules.

You cannot exclude 2.3 million Democratic voters from the Primary Process. Check the Democratic Party Charter: ALL members must be guaranteed full and equal participation in the nominating process of the party.

It doesn't say "candidates". It says "members." ALL members!

Only the Democratic Party Convention can change that. And be assured - it wouldn't dare......

[Lord Helmet]

20. too bad, the rules are the rules and you can't just do an end-run around them

[suston96]

23. Basic constitutional law: you cannot have laws that violate the Constitution.

The DNC cannot make rules that violate the Democratic Party Charter.

You do not punish members of the party for the stupidity of their leaders. Punish the leaders but count the votes of the rank and file membership.

That is the democratic way. Uh, we are the Democratic Party, still - yet?

[Lord Helmet]

38. oh baloney, she was OK with it all earlier this year until she was losing

man you guys are poor sports

[DerekJ]

40. Hmmm. MI was ruled unconstitutional by a judge...

:shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Wow. So no one told Terry McAuliffe before the 2004 primaries about this? When he said, and I quote:

"the rules are the rules"

Michigan wanted to break the rules re: Scheduling, and McAuliffe said, quote, "The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/25/165935/668/909/503541

[DesEtoiles]

50. no Constitutional right to vote in a PRIMARY. Duh.

[msallied]

59. Idiot. There is NOTHING about primaries in the Constitution.

[suston96]

66. Nothing about primaries in the US Constitution? .......

Read these comments about the 17th Amendment where the federal courts interceded in state primaries......

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment17/

Very shortly after ratification it was established that if a person possessed the qualifications requisite for voting for a Senator, his right to vote for such an officer was not derived merely from the constitution and laws of the State in which they are chosen but had its foundation in the Constitution of the United States. 2 Consistent with this view, federal courts declared that when local party authorities, acting pursuant to regulations prescribed by a party's state executive committee, refused to permit an African American, on account of his race, to vote in a primary to select candidates for the office of U.S. Senator, they deprived him of a right secured to him by the Constitution and laws, in violation of this Amendment.

Get it? ".....to vote in a primary...."

I am starting a separate thread on this. Important topic.

[suston96]

67. Oh, and by the way, "...nothing about primaries in the Constitution"? That right?

What's this? From the Twenty-Fourth Amendment to that Constitution?

Section 1

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

And this from the Fourteenth:

Section 2

...... But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,4 and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged,

Get it? ...at any election..." and ...or in any way abridged...."

[rodeodance]

24. Think 'process"--not just a single rule. They all work together to make the process

[suston96]

31. Think "process" ? No, think basic rights. Rights extended to its members by the....

...Democratic Party Charter.

I have quoted it a million times:

"Section 4.

The National Convention shall be composed of delegates equally divided between men and women. The delegates shall be chosen through processes which:

(a) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate .....

(b) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who participate in the Presidential nominating process..."

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:i1Dy8P2UOcoJ:www.democrats.org/pdfs/charter.pdf+Democratic+Party+Charter&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

Further, these are "processes" for nominating candidates to the offices of President, Vice-President, and the US Congress - all US Constitutional offices.

As such, they call for elections that must be governed by inherent and explicit constitutional safeguards as any other elections. ALL members must be guaranteed full and equal participation.

"Think process"? No, "process" is what was used to keep blacks and women from voting. Think voting rights. They are the only processes that count.

[sfaprog]

35. Actually, they had the opportunity. They don't get to choose when their oppoprtunity will be, though

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3134

[nvme]

44. This section is dealing with race and gender discrimination

I agree that race and gender should not play a part in determining the nominee, but how does this pertain to "disenfranchising" FL/MI voters? Both states refused to follow the DNC rules by moving their elections. Should these states rights supercede the National party's ? What if California decided to move its General Election to September or January? Would this be ok? This same reasoning would allow for that. chaos would soon follow. Had this been challenged sooner by all the candidates affected then it would be a viable argument. had all the major candidates pledged that the 2 states in question would not count i would wholehearted agreed with you. But as a resident of Florida i was well aware of the situation and voted knowing it would not count. I made choice. As people we make choices. As voters we make choices. If those whom we consent to govern us fail to protect or represent our interest, then we as voters will remove them.

[suston96]

52. The punishment by the DNC violates the Democratic Charter....

...which guarantees full and equal participation to ALL members. That is undeniable and indisputable.

Your attempt to read something else into that basic Democratic dogma has no merit.

ALL Democrats vote and ALL votes are counted and ALL states and the rest are counted and their delegates seated

[msallied]

60. The punishment by the DNC has nothing to do with this charter.

They participated. No one prevented them from participating.

[Gore1FL]

34. They voted

and their allotted delegates will be distributed accordingly.

[boppers]

46. I think you missed one word:

"opportunity". MI and FL had the opportunity to count, they declined.

[TBF]

58. Right, all members who follow the rules. What is it about the English

language that is so hard for Hillary's supporters to comprehend?

[Heather MC]

18. NO Hillary a fair comprise was put on the table, you declined it.

You don't care about the voters of MI and FL, if you did you would not have signed off on the agreement to began with. but you were so sure that you were going to win by Feb 5th, that you agreed on camera that FL and MI wouldn't count.

If you hadn't run your campaign into the ground, wasted $118 million bucks before Feb 5th. Ignoredthe caucus states and hired people who knew nothing about how the delegates were dispersed. you would not give arats but about MI and FL.

Obama had to win this race without FL and MI and so did everyone else. Obama did it you didn't
except the deal that's been put on the table to seat the delegates 69/59.

And count Fl at 50% and call it a day.

[PoliticalAmazon]

27. Funny, Hillary wasn't willing to stand up for FL's votes in 2000 or Ohio's in 2004.....

Oh, that's right...it didn't benefit HER to do so then.

It is going to be very difficult to heal the party as long as HIllary is pulling this bullshit. She's using her typical ham-fisted approach, and roping in Dem voters, too.

Hillary just doesn't get it: the SDs are watching her, and THIS will be as important as a Hillary-goaded email campaign.

I can just imagine what the SDs thought when they heard McAuliff dismiss Edwards' endorsement as "unimportant" and Bill's latest "fuck 'em" statement that Republicans are more progressive than Democrats.

[Life Long Dem]

32. Hillary is old news

It's the start of the GE and Bush started it today and Obama and McSame joined in. You have to hand it to Obama, he really is on top of things, and he is not letting go of McSame/Bush link.

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[sfaprog]

36. I like this press release from Hillary even more:

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3134

[AllentownJake]

37. Her supporters have nothing to do with the Rules committee

meeting.

[Cha]

39. Whine Whine Whine...Cheezewhiz..ugly yellow stuff.

:nopity: :nopity: hilary knew the rules and it's on record and now bilary is trying to change them 'cause they're LOSERS.

How dreadfully pathetic.

[Cha]

42. An Open Letter to the SuperDees from Paul Kirk(former DNC Chair)

"To my fellow superdelegates ...
An urgent message from PAUL G. KIRK JR., former chairman of the Democratic Party"

<snips>

"No, I'm not suggesting we urge one candidate to step aside before the primaries run their course. But I am suggesting we urge both campaigns to cease the intra-party slurs. The problem is not the length of the calendar; it's the negative tone of the dialogue that will hurt our chances in the fall. Our candidate will be a weaker nominee in November if the bitterness continues. None of us should look back from November and ask: "Why didn't I speak out in April?"

If your voice is to be heard at any time in this process, now is the time. Let's urge both campaigns to cease the slash-and-burn tactics and get back to the kitchen-table issues that worry America's families.

• Resolve Florida and Michigan now!

In sports as in life, if you don't play by the rules you must pay a price. The same should be true of politics.

One "price" being considered for Florida and Michigan, both having ignored party rules on the timing of their primaries, is to nevertheless count their votes at what could be a determinative moment late in the calendar. But every candidate knew that neither state held a valid election, so no candidate should be able to claim an advantage from it.

It is equally untenable for our party to convene in Denver without Florida or Michigan being represented. But the answer is not to award them a do-over after they violated the rules. The fairest solution is to divide their delegations equally between the two candidates. The campaigns can work with the state parties to assure appropriate demographic representation.

Let's use our superdelegate influence to insist that the campaigns agree to this solution now. The states need time to plan; the party must abide by its rules and must avoid an unnecessary and divisive credentials battle in Denver.

• Stay focused. It's about the delegates!

Questions are floating as to the real measure of "winning" in the run to the nomination. Number of states? Big states? Popular vote? Electoral College?

Helloooo? ...

We have rules. Everyone understood them at the outset. This is not a national primary; it is not a red-vs.-blue, caucus-vs.-primary or big state-vs.-small state competition. It's a state-by-state contest (some primary, some caucus, some big, some small) by which delegates are selected in proportional representation to the popular vote in each state.

Once the contests are over, do the math. By mid-June, we must unite behind the candidate who has won the most delegates under a process we all understood and approved in advance. After eight years of Bush-Cheney, if we cannot unite our constituencies behind the Democratic nominee, shame on us!

• Close ranks before the Democratic Convention!"

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08097/870671-109.stm

hilary's being a disingenous piece of shit.

[ruby slippers]

45. Hillary I'm from Florida and you don't speak for me.....now

go sit down yourself and be seated....

[DesEtoiles]

48. Hillary is an obscene joke at this point.

[bhikkhu]

51. So she will hand FL and MI to McCain unless the DNC coronates her

and knowing that will not happen, she'll hand them to McCain anyway because that's what sore losers who ran losing campaigns do.

A fine example to set for women in politics everywhere.

I suppose in some twisted way she might think it demonstrates power and influence, but really its just the ability to royally screw over two states and one political party, out of hateful spite, which is what the repugs have been doing on a much more impressive scale for years.

on edit - it won't work this time. And HRC is running out of time to have any kind of future in politics.

[suston96]

53. Nonsense! The DNC and the DNC alone is handing FL and MI to McCain.......

....because enough of the 2.3 million Democrats in those two states are pissed at showing up to vote and their votes being trashed by the DNC and not counted.

For crying out loud, the way things are going, Obama doesn't even need them. Think about it! Let them count and seat the delegates. It won't matter and the mandate of the Democratic Charter guaranteeing full and equal participation to ALL members of the Party will be preserved.

[bhikkhu]

64. Hillary is pushing disenfranchisement

Dean and everyone else is saying the delegates will be seated in some manner fair to all parties.

The whole episode reflects very poorly on her, and leads her supporters to act in similarly delusional ways.

[bvar22]

65. No. Hillary is actively fanning the flames.

She is working to DIVIDE the Democratic Party for personal political advantage.

Her actions directly benefit the Republican Party.
She has NO chance at the nomination, even if she manages to get the DNC to change the rules for her personal benefit.

The DNC already decided this issue.
Hillary signed on.
Case closed.

[DesEtoiles]

54. kick

[smoogatz]

56. You can't have primaries without rules. There's no point in having rules

unless everyone agrees to abide by them. Hillary initially agreed to abide by the rules, now she's changed her tune. And none of it will affect the outcome. What it does, though, is send a strong message to voters and the super-delegates that the Clintons are as willing as ever to manipulate the rules, engage in legalistic wrangling, and parse meaning endlessly in order to get their way: it's what the definition of is is, and whether it's sex if it's "only" a blowjob, except that it wasn't. In other words, all the Clinton bullshit that annoyed Americans in the '90s will be back to haunt them if somehow Hillary manages to steal the nom. The very thought makes me want to gag.

[Diane R]

57. Dear Hillary. YOUR campaign staff WROTE the Florida & Mich rules!

[tbyg52]

63. Dear Hillary: Go jump in the lake. nt