Bill Clinton lets loose ANOTHER vicious attack on the DNC today.

[madfloridian]

He truly needs to stop this kind of thing for the sake of the party and the sake of his wife.

Bill Clinton: In Defense of Michigan and Florida

Today, at the first of five campaign events in Kentucky, just days ahead of the May 20 primary here, the former president said the lack of attention to the unseated Michigan and Florida delegates was proof that the party and the political pundits are trying to force Democrats to get in line behind Obama.

How dare he continue this tactic of accusing the party of favoritism toward Obama. That is just sickening to me.

Over the past few days Clinton has frequently focused on the delegate controversy in his campaign remarks, going on about how the primary scheduling flap that resulted in the party and the campaigns' boycotting primaries in those states, has effectively disenfranchised millions of voters.

"What did the Democratic National Committee do? They obliterated them. Who cares if you wanted to get up there with these other states because you've been broken by this economic policy of the current administration. We're gonna show you who's boss. We are obliterating you from the face of the earth and pretending that your voters did not vote. You just have to know, that is the position of your national party. Nobody quarrels with their right to discipline them. They made a decision they did not have to make. And do you seriously believe, if the votes had been the other way, that they would have made the same decision?" Clinton asked a crowd in Owensboro.

This is unbelievable he is doing this. "We're gonna show you who's boss?" That from a former president?

He attacks Obama as well.

"Her opponent, now seeking to disembody Florida, buys national cable television and says 'oh, I'm sorry it got into Florida but I had to buy national cable television.' Nobody buys national television for any reason, there is no conceivable reason to do it other than to advertise. And I believe there was also some television in south Georgia. So only one candidate broke the rules. She still won by 295,000 votes, 17 percent," said Clinton.

Hillary Clinton needs to sit down and have a chat with her husband. I hear she is trying to tone down her rhetoric, so maybe she is not aware of what he is doing.

People in Florida are divided enough now. He should hush, tell the truth about the fact that Florida did it to themselves...and let us have some peace and come together.

[OzarkDem]

1. Go Big Dog

I love it when he gets riled up. He's ALWAYS willing to stick up for those less powerful.

[tabasco]

18. You are WAY off on that analysis, Bucko.

Billionaires and dictators are the people Bill Clinton has been working for lately. That's why he is so desperate to get wifey back in the White House. Buuba loves the millions that come with influence peddling.

[fascisthunter]

24. Yup... Just a Matter of "Perspective"

all we need is a definition of "less powerful". Surely he/she didn't really mean poor Americans?

[JuniperLea]

57. Not all billionaires are bad...

There are many who do a lot of very good work for humanity, and it's not fair to paint them all with the same brush.

[Tarheel_Dem]

94. I think the poster's safe in painting "Big Dog" with that brush...nt

[JuniperLea]

109. No, a broad brush is never "safe"

I happen to have worked for two billionaires who are very wonderful, and both supported Bill. I don't know about any support for Hillary. So, I know for a fact that some of Bill's billionaire friends are stand-up people.

[Tarheel_Dem]

133. Don't know about "Bill's billionaire friends", but I think the brush fits "Bill"

quite nicely since he left office.

[tabasco]

96. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

How about the one he's got his arm around, Sweetie?

[JuniperLea]

110. That's not what I'm talking about and you know it, dearie.

:eyes:

[tabasco]

113. How 'bout this one. Has he done a lot for humanity?

[ooglymoogly]

190. No but what he has done, is a lot for insanity

Ushering in the boooshcobal and now paling around with them.

[Bjorn Against]

159. If they have billions of dollars in wealth then that means many others have less...

There are many people who are living in poverty and there is only so much money to go around, I can't consider anyone who hoards billions for themselves to be doing good work for humanity. Sure there are some who give a lot to charity, but that only masks the fact that they have exploited a lot of people to get to where they are. People don't become billionaires by working for the good of society, people become billionaires by exploiting others.

[OzarkDem]

127. Sucker!

:rofl:

Only a fool would look at corporate America's shift of its campagin largesse from Clinton's campaign to 100% Obama and still think Obama represents democracy or the best interests of the democratic party and its voters.

Only a fool would think disenfranchising Democratic voters is a winning strategy to build the party.

Go suck up to the DLC Dems out selling their souls (and your future) for corporate cash.

[TLM]

136. Bill and Hill are DLC dems.....

"Go suck up to the DLC Dems "


Who started the DLC?

[Triana]

141. WHO is ahead in each of the categories in this chart from opensecrets.org? (hint: HILLARY)

HEY LOOK! She "won" - in most money taken from drug and insurance companies and most other corprats and lobbyists too. Obama is quite a bit behind her in that regard...



Ha Ha. Jokes on YOU!

[DeeDeeNY]

157. The lobbyists chart is especially telling

Hillary is in first place and Obama is down near the bottom of the list

[Triana]

168. YUP. When I hear about how "Obama takes more corp/lobbyist $ than Clinton", I produce this chart

It's public info. Right on opensecrets.org. VERY telling. And them's the facts.

[fascisthunter]

19. Like he did with NAFTA

oh that's right... he was helping the poor in China get jobs. I guess it really is all about perspective. I'm sure Hillary wouldn't agree with NAFTA today, though... oh no. She cares way too much about the "less powerful".

[blm]

22. Yeah - like when he spent his 2004 book tour defending Bush's decisions on Iraq that the nasty

powerful left and Dem nominee were attacking at the time.

And when he defended poor little Bushboy when the Downing Street Memos popped up.

And when Bill generously protected powerless Poppy Bush and his weak pals throughout the 90s when that mean old Kerry viciously went after them on their itsy bitsy deals in IranContra, BCCI and CIA drugrunning. That Kerry used all his power to against poor BushInc and the mighty Bill came along and sided with the embattled Bushies, protecting their secrecy and privilege like any strong, honest Democratic leader would.

[MethuenProgressive]

31. Clinton's a real Democrat - Dean is still in full tilt scream mode.

Count the votes, Johnny Dean!

[PoliticalAmazon]

42. Clinton's a neocon whore. However, I applaud his latest spate...

of bullshit spewing. Believe me, the SDs are watching this and realizing how bad the Clintons are for the party.

Buh-bye, Hillary! Buh-Bye, Bill! Buh-Bye, Chelsea! Buh-Bye, Socks!

[ZinZen]

137. I think Socks is dead.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pocoloco]

81. Stick up or stick it in 'em.

Especially the young and less powerful!!

[OzarkDem]

126. Stand for democracy and don't back down

no matter how much 20 year olds and their junk food candidates whine.

[Two Americas]

115. ironic, isn't it?

Obama is supposedly the anti-establishment candidate, changing the way the party and the politicians are doing things. But President Clinton attacks the establishment, and he is treated like a traitor. And of Obama is the anti-establishment candidate, how come all of the establishment Democratic party politicians are endorsing him?

[canucksawbones]

155. only when it suits him

Clinton is the establishment candidate. Slick Willy only gives it to the estabblishment of the Democratic party when it suits his ends.

Which is too bad, I had high hopes for Hillary when this started, but her and hubby just come off as desperate now.

GK

[Grinchie]

183. Call it Survival

Bill Clinton has already proven himself a Corporate shill.

Yet, when people call him out on real issues, he'll wag his grotesque finger and tells them "Shame on You"

He doesn't care that he facilitated Corporate Prisons. Gmo Foods invading our food supply without being labled thanks to his help, and most of all, NAFTA.

He is a big feeder at the Pork trough. Always will be.

[mkultra]

120. "less powerful" that about describes it.

[LibGranny]

129. Slick Willy only "sticks up" for himself and his own!

He has become irrelevant and can't stand it - he's a limelight seeker/lover and now finds the only way to get that light is to be hateful and ugly! Go home Slick Willy! Somebody should ask him how Monica is doing - that would really blow his gasket!

[bvar22]

138. Bill really "stuck up" for Monica.

I love the way he poked out his finger and gritted his teeth when he called her "That Woman".

[PaulaFarrell]

149. yes, go away, big dog n/t

[LeFleur1]

165. Right

I can't figure out the opposition of Obama and his supporters to counting the votes of the people. How Republican is that? I don't care WHAT the party did or WHAT the legislators did. The votes of the people should count.
The DNC did not ask that candidates remove their names from the ballot, according to a DNC spokesperson. Those who removed their names made a mistake. They lost their gamble. Judgement, again. Party loyalty before people loyalty.

There is a saying. Birds of a Feather Flock Together. So when some say that the Obama supporters on here are not anything like Obama, and therefore, he is the person to support...you have to wonder. Why do these vicious posters flock to Obama? Is there something in his personality that attracts such supporters? OR Are they an anomaly?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

175. Is there something in Hillary Clinton's personality that attracts this kind of supporter?

[Grinchie]

184. I think they all share a prescription of Xanax or other Antidepressant

Most likely mixed with a 6 pack a day of Diet Soda loaded with Aspartame.

Not familiar with Aspartame? Check it out here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
You don't get on top with Big Pharma for no reason.

[blonndee]

2. "You just have to know, that is the position of your national party."

Is he trying to get people to NOT vote Democratic?

[JuniperLea]

12. Of course not...

He's trying to get the DNC to clean up the mess, change the rules, and make sure this fiasco never happens in a Democratic campaign again. To that end, more power to him.

[madfloridian]

20. You are excusing his behavior? That it will "help" the party.

My list is filling up quickly again.

[JuniperLea]

68. Not my fault you can't separate your hate for Clinton

From everything else.

The party fucked up. The primary rules need to be changed. You don't see that?

[dmr]

145. Hillary helped write those rules, and the ramifications if they

were broken. Now she wants to renege and play the victim because two states (I'm in one) decided to buck and dare the DNC and the 48 other states who with integrity abided by those rules.

I'm trying very hard to remember that it is the primary that is making some of you who are falling for the BS the Clinton people are spouting. Ordinarily, in DU, DUers believe in the rules and bylaws; and abhor those, primarily Republicans who decide to find a way to break them for their own self interests.

All I can say is READ! READ! READ! and use your critical thinking skills!

Whether anyone thinks the rules are right or wrong. One thing is certain - we have - we must - follow them! And for heaven's sake, get off Howard Dean's back - there is a board of Democrats who will have the last and final say. They will be fair. It's not only about Hillary and not only about Obama. It is about fairness to the 48 states who did follow the rules - to all the voters in this country who held elections within the ground rules approved and signed off on by all the candidates!

I am saddened by the intellectual dishonesty displayed over and over and over again by the Clinton campaign and by DUers who have over the years complained about the Bush administration and the GOP who are habitual rule/law breakers.

[Grinchie]

185. How do we fix it?

Don't we normally vot in more intelligent people to replace the idiots that make the mistakes? I guess that's the whole election in a nutshell.

Common sense dictates that you have the ability to enter into a contract and abide by it. Unless the leadership in Florida were drugged, lacked informed consent, or brain damaged, I believe their agreement is binding. However disenfranchising it may be, it's a great step in waking up the people to the idiots they elected to office.

Hopefully the people will take more interest in voting next time.

[blonndee]

27. By tearing down the party at a campaign event? Doesn't seem too productive to me.

[K Gardner]

44. This was in KENTUCKY? I don't even get the rationale for it. It is beyond bizarre. Look at the

repeated uses of the term Obliterate. Gah.

[blonndee]

83. It seems to me that such a tactic could drive down turnout.

And you're right. The "obliterate" thing is creepy.

[Chiyo-chichi]

161. and Obama wants to "disembody" Florida??!!

:wtf:

[catgirl]

163. It's like Bush attacking Obama from overseas

[JuniperLea]

63. The party fucked up

The rules need changed. You don't see that?

[blonndee]

77. I see that all candidates knew the situation and agreed to it going in.

Only now that Hillary is losing have they decided they want to change the rules. More importantly, for Bill to bring this shit on the campaign trail is shameful and most certainly harmful to the party. If the rules need changing, that can be done later. But for now, there were clear rules that were established and which were broken, with well-known and agreed-upon consequences.

And it was Michigan and Florida that "fucked up." Not Obama's fault, or any of the candidates'.

[JuniperLea]

90. They can't change the rules for THIS primary

I never once said it was Obama's fault. Jeebus!

And how often have you heard complaints about the SD situation?


People need to leave the hate behind and look forward with a more postive attitude, or we are all doomed.

[blonndee]

105. I agree with your last statement.

And that goes for Bill, too. I don't think he's being helpful or productive at all, that's all.

I'm not sure what rules you are hoping will be changed, but probably there are things that can be improved. I personaly don't think we need to change the rules to a winner-takes-all system. I like the proportional representation, but it seems like it might be a little TOO heavily favored to the loser of each primary. I remember reading complaints about how a 55-45 split might mean just a difference of 1 delegate in some states or even a tie. That doesn't seem fair either.

[JuniperLea]

107. States should never be able to play against the rules

for one thing.

MI and FL should have never lost the right to vote for thier citizens in this primary. It was a sucker punch. The whole SD deal needs revised too. I don't pretend to know all the answers, but I do recognize the problems.

You don't have to be a brain surgeon to recognize a headache.

[mkultra]

121. the time for that is before an election, not during or after.

now hes trying to win

[rateyes]

180. The DNC didn't make the mess.

Let the ones who made it clean it up.

[OzarkDem]

128. Allowing everyone's vote to count is what Democrats stand for

Disenfranchising voters because of problems that were not their fault is the Republican way.

[skooooo]

3. I'm just impressed that you used the word "loose" correctly. nt

[madfloridian]

55. I need to think about that one.

Do I update my list or not? Inquiring minds.....

[skooooo]

59. Because many people think "loose" = lose.

That's all I meant.

[madfloridian]

66. Gotcha...thanks.

It's the school teacher in me. I cringe when I see misspelled words...but I am guilty if I post late at night. :hi:

[indimuse]

84. ****((((( PART 3 AND 4 )))))****

*3) There are people of strong prejudice and limited means but strong popularity (Brazile), and then there are the charlatans. One such charlatan is the Rev. Sharpton, whose action network is advocating the line, that counting MI and FL is direct theft of those votes, which were never cast.
Among all the arguments made in the press, this is by far the stupidest, most useless, and based on the greatest emotional appeal. I don’t expect anyone to make it at the May 31st meeting, but the media will try. My response to this inane logic, is this:

a- for every imagined Obama voter who did not vote, one can easily imagine Clinton voters who did not vote. Such imagining, when taken to its logical extreme, can be applied to every single election ever held on earth, from Roman times, to present. If you just imagine a better turn out in Florida of 2000, Gore could have won. If you just imagine a better turn out for the Communists in 1933 Germany, Hitler would never have won the Reichstag. If you just imagine… well, elections are fundamentally based on opposition to the imagination. They are metrical, tallied, and thrive on assumptions such as one man one vote at one time for one candidate. For every imagined Black who did not vote for Obama, there is an imagined Latino and Asian - you choose- who slept in on Clinton.

I realize Axelrod’s campaign thrives on the imagined. From imagined “grassroots” to imagined “victims,” but disenfranchising 2.4 million voters, requires no imagination.

b- This argument ignores, conveniently, that the Democratic Parties of both states, encouraged turn-out, and at no point did the DNC discourage it. Neither the Parties nor the DNC ever or even suggested replacement elections could possibly be held, and not a single FL and MI voter was under the impression that they had a choice in the matter. Voters’ options were simple, either vote now or you don’t vote at all. If you don’t vote, there wasn’t a single message or promise from anyone that you’d be given another chance to cast your ballot. This was 100% clear!

Obama bombarded the Florida election market, and while he didn’t show up in person, at no point whatsoever did he hold out the hope of another re-vote. In Michigan he promoted voting uncommitted. If some Blacks and college students, contrary to what was obvious, want to lie that they didn’t show up in FL and MI because of the DNC ban, then logically, they failed to heed their Leader- who was paying serious money for a messages getting them out to vote!

*4) Compromise.
We can compromise on delegate numbers within very narrow constraints. Neither cutting the delegates by half, nor playing around with the voter turnout and numbers, is politically acceptable. Any such shenanigans amount to further dilution of the one man one vote rule. You cannot accept one person’s votes, while rejecting another’s. This is a fantasy option, which only occurs in nightmares. It spells defeat for Clinton, and democracy along with it. It is not the position Clinton takes, nor should her supporters. Votes must be recognized, exactly as they were cast.

In conclusion. There are three choices before the Rule Committee on May 31st. Stall (fail), approve, and re-vote. Here is how I speculate the outcome.

The Clinton camp, made repeated attempts to offer Florida and Michigan a re-vote. Contraty to DNC rules, and to what Dean and Pelosi maintained, Axelrod declined every single opportunity. His drive to disenfranchise both states, was determined. It was an illegal disenfranchisement, and there are no two ways about it. Still, a re-vote can be put on the table. It may be the only acceptable solution to the impasse.

Unfortunately, Axelrod knows his demographics, and strategy. He understands that a re-vote is both a political defeat of his candidate, and that the demographics will not budge. He would be taking a big risk, hoping for an outcome even marginally more favorable to Obama, than that already tallied for MI and FL in January.

Approval, will be very difficult for the Rules committee to approve MI and FL on May 31st. Approval amounts to admission of sins, and confessions will be in order. I don’t expect the political wherewithal for approval. Clinton proxies need to win the argument, without expecting a decision. Had the committee met on June 4th, this may have been different, but May 31st is too early, for a Primary hinging on the Puerto Rico popular vote.

The most likely outcome for May 31st, will be nothing politically, but by documenting a Rhetorical victory, Clinton can carry it over to the next meeting, when her popular vote will provide the wherewithal for more courageous decision making. I may be wrong, this is just guessing the future, but there is no guessing the argument, and Clinton supporters are 1000% correct, to fight on behalf of FL and MI.

[madfloridian]

86. It's growing.

By

[madfloridian]

4. Dean talked about the FL and MI deals on Jay Leno. He was fair and sensible. Video link here.

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=54e10c10-3304-462a-9dc4-18ac5137c123

This is just getting tiresome as hell.

[JuniperLea]

17. Dean needs to keep his cool... he has a job in the DNC

Bill has nothing to protect except the party, and I think he should raise hell until the rules are changed so this crap can't happen again.

[dionysus]

53. Bill has nothing to protect except his own sorry-ass legacy, which he manages to diminish daily...

[JuniperLea]

62. That's his business

If he manages to draw enough attention to the asinine rules the Democratic pary runs primaries on, fine with me if he want's to further "diminish" his legacy.

[frylock]

97. bill clinton is looking out for bill clinton..

he doesn't give fuckall for your precious "party."

[RTBerry]

179. Your?

n/t

[EFerrari]

54. When he was on the Daily Show, he also said they'd find a way

to seat those delegates.

[Forkboy]

5. He'll be back to playing golf with Poppy soon enough.

[mcctatas]

6. I'm telling you, it's "pump head"

"Brain damage during bypass surgery is so common that hospital personnel refer to it as “pump head.” The primary cause is emboli produced during surgery from clamping the aorta and from the “heart-lung machine.” This machine pumps blood to keep the patient alive while the heart is stopped during the operation. Unfortunately, this pump also introduces toxic gases, fat globules, and bits of plastic debris into the bloodstream of the patient under anesthesia. Once they are in the bloodstream, these particles migrate to the brain where they can clog capillaries and prevent adequate amounts of blood and oxygen from flowing to the brain. Essentially, all patients experience brain emboli during surgery and for many the damage is permanent."



http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2008other/080412clinton.htm

[goclark]

58. He is different, mighty different

He is way out of control and will say ~ anything.

God help us all if they are returned to the WH

[JuniperLea]

7. "The Party" will be fine

I'm really getting weary of this over-used and totally untrue meme.

I think this will help the party in the long run. The whole deal that went down with MI and FL was completely bogus and the rules need to be changed so this fiasco doesn't happen again. To that end, GO BILL!

He can't hurt Obama at this point. Unless something really stinky surfaces, Obama will continue to be the golden child.

[madfloridian]

13. "golden child"???

You think this will help the party??

Bullshit.

[JuniperLea]

23. Yes, golden child...

The divine and untouchable. It's a complement... jeez... get a fucking grip already.

Yes, this will help the party! If you can let go of your stupid bitterness long enough to see the big picture!

What happened in MI and FL was bullshit... and it should never happen again. Let Bill stir the shit until the rules are changed for good.

[returnable]

75. Psssssst! The time to "stir the shit" was BEFORE the primaries...

...but Bill and Hillary were oddly silent about it then. Go figure.

It's ridiculous for the Clintons to claim they're fighting for every vote to count when they were all too happy to throw Michigan and Florida under the bus when they the thought Hillary's nomination was inevitable...

[JuniperLea]

79. Psssttt... the red flag wasn't raised until

after MI and FL screwed up. The whole SD deal needs changed too.

I can't blame Bill for taking advantage of the platform to get things done.

They ARE fighting for every vote to be counted! Jesus! Get a fucking grip! Making a spectacle of this debacle is a very good way to make a point and to get things changed before this BS ever happens again.

[returnable]

132. Psssst! Hillary knew what the consequences were when she AGREED to the DNC's plan...

...hindsight is NOT 20/20 in this case.

I'm with the folks who think the primary schedule is screwed and needs to be looked at. But once the rules are set for a season, they are set. What needs to be "changed" is state parties need to follow the rules of the national party, as asinine as they may be in any given year.

[mkultra]

122. hillary was the golden girl!

[MethuenProgressive]

51. "Obama will continue to be the golden child."

that is the Hope of some...

[JuniperLea]

65. One would hope this is the hope of all Democrats

And once he is president, the hope of all Americans.

[Grinchie]

188. Are you one of the Disenfranchised Juniperx?

Why are you beating this dead horse?

I may not live in Florida, but you can be sure that we watch Florida very closely after 2000.

I reviewed the evidence that was presented regarding Michigan and Florida, and I agree, the Democratic Leadership in Florida acted very stupidly. They brought it upon themselves, as it looks like they were well aware of what they were getting into.

As I recall, there was talk of having another election, but as you know, these things cost money, and open an entire can of worms in regrads to validity of the vote. These lawamakers are not so naive as to not understand this. If they were, then Tough titty. Vote in smarter party leaders in those states.

Bill is impotent in this matter, and I'm sure a resolution will be forthcoming, but it needs to be fair and framed within the existing agreements. His direct attacks on Obama are out of place. He needs to be calling out the Florida politicians that allowed this to occur. Haven't we had enough Tampering with the election process since 2000?

You are fighting like Don Quixote on this issue, and regrettably, you sound a lot like a republican trying to explain away some wrongdoing.

Either that, or you are a Troll, and this is all wasted on you.

[bluestateguy]

8. He really doesn't have the mojo anymore

This is not the campaigning Bill Clinton of 1992 and 1996 I remember.

[monmouth]

9. I'm starting to think that Bill wanted the WH as much, if not more than Hillary.

His legacy will not change, the window of opp has closed. He thought it would be a cakewalk and his ego is just not able to absorb this. Get with it Bill, the party's over. Your wife is showing far more class than you are.

[LiberalLovinLug]

176. Yes Bill wants it more than his wife

I can see this as well. He desperately was counting on a 'second term' to blot out the stain on his first one (literally).

[MethuenProgressive]

10. You oppose votes being counted? You know this is a progressive Democratic site, don't you?

We're the guys that want votes counted. Join us!

[madfloridian]

15. I emptied my list.

It is filling up again quickly. By

[K Gardner]

21. You and me both. I thought for certain they'd be gone by now.

[JuniperLea]

70. Ouch

That will leave a mark. Booo hooo and waaaa... Happy now?


That's a lame threat. You can't even see that the primary rules need changed. Brilliant.

[mkultra]

124. you cant even see that you cant change rules in the middle.

[blm]

26. Bill could've made an executive order to count all votes in Nov2000, but he didn't.

Bill could've directed the head of DNC after 2000s theft to secure the election process for 2002 and 2004...but, he wouldn't.

You can't fool us, anymore.

[MethuenProgressive]

37. Revisionist fantasy.

"Bill could've directed the head of DNC after 2000s theft to secure the election process for 2002 and 2004...but, he wouldn't."
Dean's failures are Clinton's fault!

[blm]

162. Do you OWN a calendar? Terry McAuliffe led the DNC thru Feb2005. CLINTON PUT HIM THERE.

Dean has been working to BUILD the collapsed party infrastructure that Terry oversaw in order to keep 2008 open for Hillary.

You don't care. That's YOUR team and you don't care what it takes for them to prevail, as long as they stay on that pedestal you erected. The Dem party, the country and the world can suffer 8 yrs of Bush2 as long as Clintons get what they want.

[PoliticalAmazon]

49. Unfortunately, Hillary couldn't be bothered to stand up for FL's votes in 2000....

so her latest attempt to cheat and steal the election are just a tad transparent.

[eridani]

151. Yes. I oppose basketball games with only one team playing at a time also n/t

[ErinBerin84]

11. sad that he is using this divisiveness

Good thing that there are actually important things going on in the political arena that his conspiracy theory craziness isn't getting media attention that it doesn't deserve. He does nothing to help his wife's case.

I did kind of laugh that he used "obliterated" though.

[CakeGrrl]

14. Bill and Hill sure like the word "obliterate" lately

I guess he's hoping that his audience lacks the information about MI and FL so as to buy his bullshit.

Nice Republican tactics, Bill. Your transformation progresses apace.

[me b zola]

38. Think the Clintons will do a full lieberman?

I think the odds are 65-35 they do. :D

[CakeGrrl]

67. I wish they would! On the upside, I hope he keeps tanking Hill's VP odds

I don't know why the Dem leadership would want them this close to the levers of power with all the recent spew and divisive talk to whip up faux outrage against the DNC.

Maybe they know what's about to happen and are going down swinging.

I wish she WOULD end up on the McCain ticket. I'd bust out the :popcorn: for that.

[K Gardner]

16. Dear lord.. that's worse than what he said yesterday ! Obliterated?? Threats ?? WTF ??

[ej510]

32. This is why Hillary has no chance in hell of being VP. Bill

is a party traitor. He is on the verge of becoming Zell Miller. Bill Clinton just may be racist after all.

[habitual]

40. hehe, he's upset that he can't control the focus of the party like he thought he'd be able to

it's terrible to watch Bill complain that, as the party moves now to focus on McCain and the GE, he is not getting the focus he wants for an issue that is so important to them now. I certainly didn't hear him trying desperately to focus on this issue when it wasn't beneficial for them to, like say before she was facing the prospect of losing. That alone is such obvious bullshit.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. Is "obliterate" the new password for the Clintons?

After 8 years of caving to the Republicans, they are now getting "tough"...against Democrats and Iranians?

[flpoljunkie]

93. "We are obliterating you from the face of the earth and pretending that your voters did not vote."

Bill Clinton has really jumped the shark. This is truly unbecoming of a former president--railing like a true demagogue to low information voters.

[K Gardner]

28. Just a suggestion, Mad.. given that there's a post up about his attack on

Wednesday ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5995162&mesg_id=5995162 ) you could probably put "another attack" in your OP title so people will know you're writing about a different attack and that he's still at it two days later. :hi:

[madfloridian]

36. Good idea. Fixed it. I wrote more even earlier than this week.

I found one from March...will look it up.

This is terrible.

[K Gardner]

114. Yeah, I've been reading your journal.. you should write a book !

[IsItJustMe]

29. And people wonder why some of Hillary's supporters say they would not support Obama. This is sad.

[madfloridian]

30. He is using my state as a tool to attack Dean and the rules committee

I now believe all the things I heard in the 90s from all the Republicans around here. God, I defended that man from all his shenanigans.

[indimuse]

78. MY STATE 2:: ( **((((PART 2)))))**

*2) Donna Brazile recently suggested that admitting FL and MI delegations was unfair to all other states, and would be a destructive precedent for future elections. The logic here is appallingly stupid. Is Brazile suggesting that nixing the vote of 2.4 million voters, is the only way we can keep our Primaries fair for 48 other states? Or is she seriously suggesting that accepting 2.4 million voters, will somehow disenfranchise 48 states? In either case, the stupidity is ghastly.
Numerically, FL and MI do not impact the 48 other states. Numerically they neither enfranchise or disenfranchise them. To bring 48 others states into the MI and FL argument, is plain insulting.

Politically, for both the Nation and the Democratic Party, 48 states lose only, if FL and MI lose. If FL and MI win, the 48 states gain. There is no scenario, in which a loss of MI and FL, is a win for 48 other states.

In plain English, depriving 2.4 million voters of their vote, is positive sum loss for the Party. Reinstating their vote, is a positive sum gain. Brazile’s argument, is a cheap ploy, which anyone sitting across the table from her, should be at liberty to call for what it is, an unfounded “Victim” card.

The same goes for precedents. Mrs Brazile would be well advised to consider her “precedents” wisely. (Never mind that she needs to be fired off CNN), what kind of precedents does disenfranchising 2.4 million voters send for future elections, compared to the precedent of counting FL and MI send?

The precedent at disenfranchisement needs no explanation. A careless party, which carelessly abandons its state parties, and which is vulnerable to partisan infighting, will not make it into the next election cycle. The hemorrhage will be awesome. Then there is the 48 state strategy- which is an outright insult not only to FL and MI, but to every state. Ban MI and FL, and you are telling every state that its vote is never guaranteed into the future.

The precedent set by counting both FL and ML delegates, is altogether positive. It sends the message that the DNC is aware of its faults and negligence which it intends to correct, and that our party is a democratic party not just in name. That it is competent enough to apply its rules correctly, and even failing to do so in a timely manner, finds ways to compensate.

Now Brazile will say, that counting FL and MI sends the message to future DNC election rule violators, that the rules can be broken with impunity. She wont be troubled with the obverse question; whether the rules can be applied, without cause, shame, impunity, and in a haphazard - hence discriminatory - manner. No, counting FL and MI will not tell future violators, that the rules don’t matter. The opposite will be told, that no matter how biased the media, and partisan the party, the rules will be applied fairly, without discrimination, and at the appropriate time.

Donna Brazile should pause, before talking of any precedents. Her logic, is self-incriminatory.

[dchill]

108. It almost seems like you don't care for Donna Brazile...

Or Howard Dean or the DNC. Many on Clinton's campaign staff were part of the creation of the rules which FL and MI subsequently broke. Whatever happens, it will be more favorable to both of these states than what they deserve.

It also seems that you believe that if the delegates are not seated ("depriving 2.4 million voters of their vote"), that it means the citizens of those states won't be allowed to vote in the General Election. All it means is that they don't have a hand in picking the nominee, a punishment they KNEW they were risking.

[President Kerry]

170. Donna Brazile is right.

FL and MI decided to give themselves the advantage of an earlier primary. Doesn't this screw the states like Kentucky who get to have their say way at the tail end of the process? The primary system is fundamentally unfair in that some states get to exercise a lion's share of influence (IA, NH, SC, super Tuesday states), while others don't matter - and that's a separate discussion. But if every state could freely pull what FL and MI did, they'd do it in a flash. You don't do that on a whim, there's a process. Nevada got their primary advanced the right way. So in that sense, yes, treating FL and MI like every other state is an affront to the other 48 states that played by the rules. Otherwise it's an anarchy within the party.

[Grinchie]

189. You know whats Weird Madfloridian, I am starting to believe all that 1988-1994 stuff myself.

Bill Clinton would do better for himslef if he just crawled into a cave somewhere.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## DON'T DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Whatever you do, do not click the link below!

[Swamp Rat]

140. You can run, but you cannot hide Evil GrovelBot!

[C_U_L8R]

34. I like the big dog but he's starting to look helpless.

Nobody likes a sore loser. I expect a little more self respect from Bill.

[LisaM]

35. Good for Bill!

I think we all know who Howard Dean supports.

[madfloridian]

39. List....updating....again.

.

[K Gardner]

47. Right behind you... LOL

[jonestonesusa]

143. Oh, no, Dean supports Obama!

Quick, throw Dean under the bus! Forget the 50 state strategy that has helped create a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress and has helped the Democrats come back to prominence in Montana, Colorado, Virginia, Kansas, and perhaps even North Carolina and Louisiana.

Yeah - let's bring back Terry McAuliffe and his gang to run the DNC again, maybe Newt Gingrich can come back as speaker again. Bob Barr still needs a job, let's get him back in Congress!

Come on, LisaM, you Democrat - give Dean credit for his successes. We are far better off than we were under the DLC-leaning McAuliffe and Big Dog selling out the Lincoln Bedroom to raise a few bucks. Onward to the future! No Democrat need apologize for supporting Obama.

[ima_sinnic]

147. asinine

the greed-head corporate ass-kissing DLCers are just too obvious in this thread

[DemGa]

41. You go Bill!

[madfloridian]

43. Updating.....

again.

Can't take it anymore. Denial is one thing...just plain hatred of the party is another.

BY

[DemGa]

48. I've never used the ignore function once - you are the exception

[K Gardner]

Yes, because Mad posts such inflammatory things.. like facts. Damn those pesky facts !

[habitual]

45. exactly.... Bill, Go.

be gone! I've heard enough from him about this, but obviously he doesn't think so.

[Zachstar]

88. Cheering on the person destroying the political future of Clinton.. Good Going!

Bill has gone rouge in my view.

[Ichingcarpenter]

46. Sounds like the Big Dog didn't get his shots

Definitely showing signs of Distemper or even rabies.

[NeedleCast]

60. Fire Bad!

Who is this Franken-Bill?

I miss the old Big Dog. I want 1990s Bill Clinton back.

[Ichingcarpenter]

73. Not photoshopped or changed

It is an original AP photo.

Hardly recognize him sometimes these days.
I worked on his 96 campaign locally.

He can go back to Arkansas and play with Duke
the hound dog for all I care.

[madfloridian]

91. Sad to believe it is not photoshopped.

I know this is painful for them, but it hurts to see it.

[Why Syzygy]

118. Look of pure terror. He knows he is facing indictment.

[frylock]

100. holy damn!

with finger wagging kung-fu grip!

[ErinBerin84]

52. paging Dan Abrams, paging Dan Abrams

prime example of why an Obama/Clinton ticket would not and should not happen. It wouldn't be as bad if not for Bill and the Clinton campaign staff chock full of incompetent bozos.

[Life Long Dem]

56. Obama is fighting in the GE with McSame and Bush and

Hillary and Bill look so little down there throwing rocks at the DNC.

[madfloridian]

71. Yes, it does make them look like little people.

You are right.

[Ichingcarpenter]

80. Do you know the Private Detective they used was sentenced today?

Clinton Investigator Convicted Of 76 Crimes

The private investigator hired by the Clintons to intimidate their political enemies and dig up dirt on Bill’s mistresses has been convicted on 76 federal criminal charges, including racketeering and wiretapping.

Anthony Pellicano, renowned private eye to Hollywood stars, has already served a 30-month prison sentence for possession of explosives and this week’s convictions by a Los Angeles jury could make jail his home for years to come. Among other things the jury found him guilty of racketeering, wiretapping, wire fraud, identity theft, conspiracy to intercept or use wire communications and manufacture or possession of a wiretapping device.

Pellicano specialized in digging up dirt for wealthy clients to use in lawsuits, divorces and contract disputes. He often bribed corrupt public officials and police officers for the information and was hired by Hollywood heavy hitters such as Tom Cruise, Michael Jackson and Elizabeth Taylor as well as the heads of major studios.

His most famous clients, however, are a powerful duo consisting of a former commander-in-chief and his senator wife. The Clintons first hired Pellicano in 1992 to contact and intimidate some of the women who had romantic affairs with Bill, including his longtime mistress Gennifer Flowers.

In fact, Judicial Watch represented Flowers in a defamation suit against Clinton campaign officials and Hillary based on their attempts to use Pellicano's analysis to discredit and thus defame her. During a jailhouse deposition in the Flowers case, Pellicano refused to answer questions from Judicial Watch attorneys.

Pellicano also helped the former First Couple with damage control in the Monica Lewinsky scandal by unearthing Lewinsky’s old boyfriend (Andy Blieler), who told reporters that Lewinsky told him she wanted to go to Washington to earn her “presidential kneepads.”


http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080515/D90MBD600.html

[avenger64]

61. Howard Dean is the new Antonin Scalia...

... Florida 2008 is now the new Florida 2000. We've got somebody in our own party now disenfranchising the voters of the 4th most populous state in the country on procedure.

It's disgraceful, and every Democrat should be alarmed. And don't give me this 'rules is rules' s***. Hanging chads were rules, too.

[madfloridian]

69. List growing...quickly.

[avenger64]

76. Oh, we don't get 'parallels', do we?

Yeah, it's challenging. Better to ignore things you can't refute.

[frylock]

103. they make it so easy..

collect the whole set!

*click*

[GodlessBiker]

64. Bill who?

[indimuse]

72. ***(((((Part 1)))))***

READ AND LEARN OBAMA PEEPS!!!


On May 31st the DNC rules committee meets, and Clinton loyalists will need to present coherent, persuasive, and unimpeachable arguments to crush any attempt to further stall progress on Michigan and Florida.


SNIP

I’ve already debunked most arguments made by Axelrod’s camp claiming FL and MI deserve no hearing. I neglected a few more, which the likes of Donna Brazile plan on deploying on May 31st:

1) DNC rules were applied - and they will stand
2) Admitting FL and MI is unfair, and somehow “disenfranchises” other states, sets destructive precedent
3) The “Virtually disenfranchised” in FL and MI
4) Compromise

Before I get into into each argument, I’d just like to acknowledge what is already commonly known in Clinton circles.

DNC election rules apply only to delegates, not to the popular vote. When the popular vote is tallied, (RealClearPolitics measure will most likely be the benchmark), only fools will keep 2.3 - 2.5 million Florida and Michigan voters in the cupboard. I hope this descriptions applies to a limited number of Superdelegates (”independent delegates”).

1) DNC rules were applied.
No. They were not applied. The rules call for a 1/2 reduction of delegate totals. This option was not exercised - the rules were ignored. Nothing in the DNC rules allows for total disenfranchisement of FL and MI. Nothing. To claim that MI and FL were disenfranchised legally, is bombastic nonsense.

Neither Dean nor Pelosi, nor Clinton, ever maintained that FL and MI would not have their delegates seated in Denver. The implication all along, was that Primaries in MI and FL, would not be allowed to marginalize Primaries in four states previously scheduled ahead of MI and FL.

When Obama, Edwards, and Clinton signed a four-state pledge to honor the DNC position on Florida and Michigan, all this implied was to not allow Fl and MI to take precedence over Primaries in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina. No candidate in any way, shape, or form, signed on to banning FL and MI delegates from the Convention in Denver.

What Obama signed, or how he interprets his signature, is an altogether different matter. Removing his name from the Michigan ballot, while relying on the neighboring media market of Illinois to advertise, and explicitly rally his supporters to vote Uncommitted in Michigan, sends a mixed signal on his intentions, and a clear signal on his incompetence.

The only binding aspect of candidates signatures in the four state pledge, came in the form of limiting their campaign activity. Candidates interpreted this to mean, a ban on physical appearances in either MI and FL. No more, and no less. Both Clinton and Obama appeared in FL, but for reasons which cannot be legally pinned down as “campaigning”, and there is no doubt on their staying true to their word.

To construe candidate signatures as binding on their policy stance on FL and MI delegates counts, is to spread disinformation. We see such disinformation every time FL and MI are mentioned in the media. It is plain wrong, and Obamacans need to get this through their heads, no matter how thick.

Continuing on the subject of DNC rules. Not only is the DNC not following the rules, in denying FL and MI the vote, they have absolutely no grounds to negotiate with FL and MI representatives, about 1/2 reductions of their delegate count.

DNC rules state that any state party which itself moves the voting date, will be penalized. As is well known in Clinton circles, neither the Florida nor Michigan Democrats chose to move their elections forward. The choosing was done by someone else! Republicans controlled both FL and MI State Legislatures, and when passing omnibus bills disbursing moneys for both Democratic and Republican Primaries, forced both of them forward.

Democrats fought against this in both states, but in both cases could not veto omnibus bills apportioning moneys for their own election! The DNC provided them with no alternative options or moneys for their elections, and carelessly left the Democratic parties of MI and FL, stranded!

Not even the finest reading of the DNC election rules, permit stripping or reducing in half state delegates, for actions committed under duress by the opposing party!

[suzie]

153. The Florida Democratic Party had a year after the

legislation passed to make alternative arrangements that would comply with DNC guidelines. They did nothing.

After August, they still had time to figure out a way to comply with the DNC. We've seen the memo posted here earlier from a prominent member of the DNC and the Florida Democratic Party exhorting the leadership to fix it before January 29.

There was no campaigning whatsoever in Florida--where you usually have to watch the premium cable channels to retain your sanity. Voters went to the polls thinking that their votes wouldn't count.

Do you really think it fair to say, "All Florida votes should be counted", when the primary was basically considered a straw ballot by those who went out to vote?

[livetohike]

74. Apparently he wants to flame out

It's over. He and his many hangers-on will have little power at the convention and he knows it. Perhaps he thought this day would not come this soon, or ever. The magic is over.

[undeterred]

82. He's getting desperate, and its not pretty.

[RiverStone]

85. Would Bill be making these attacks if his wife was not running?

:think:

I sure worked hard to elect him - and he was a damn good president.

Too bad he did not stop there; I barely recognize him anymore.

[MaineDem]

87. The Clintons (Carville et al) are really afraid of losing their perceived power in the Party

They aren't happy with the state partnership - it gives too much power (?) to the state parties.

I also think they don't know how to lose with grace. But, in their defense, it can't be pretty to be a Clinton right now.

[madfloridian]

89. You are right. Also FL Dem leaders have been vocal about not liking the 50 state plan

They think it made them less important.

[ShortnFiery]

92. Bitter Ole' neutered Dawg!

He's behaving in a vile manner. I have ZERO sympathy for him and Hilly ruining their reputation, not only within the AA Community, but also within the entire Democratic Party. Go back to NY State ... and mercifully consider STAYING PUT!?!

[frylock]

95. bill who?

:shrug:

[AntiFascist]

98. More evidence that the old Clinton-led DLC is a party unto itself...

they should just join forces with Lieberman and announce the formation of a new party, before the remaining DLC-members supporting Obama turn against them.

[sfam]

99. "Nobody quarrels with the right to discipline them"? Other than Hillary you mean?

She wants all their delegates to count from votes cast prior to when they were allowed. Sounds pretty clear like HILLARY quarrels with the right to discipline them.

[Bucky]

101. Goddang, that boy can spin! I can't wait until he's working to elect Obama.

It won't be long now.

[still_one]

102. gee bill, you didn't have any problem when terry told MI the same thing Dean did

regarding not seating their delegates if they ran their primary earlier

Incidently Bill,DO YOU REALIZE THAT OBAMA WANS'T EVEN ON THE BALLOT BECAUSE THE DNC TOLD THEM NOT TO

It is all about following rules. I know you don't like rules bill, hell you committed perjury and lost your law license, c'est dommage

I agree with you that Bill Clinton needs to tone it done, but this could be a game of good cop bad cop

[dchill]

104. "...maybe she is not aware of what he is doing."

Much as I'd like to believe that, I just can't. Fool me once...won't get fooled again.

[Auntie Bush]

106. Sounds like you actually believe your own spin. Pathetic!

How dare he continue this tactic of accusing the party of favoritism toward Obama. That is just sickening to me.

It may be sickening to you but it's the TRUTH. So stop spreading lies and show some common sense.

[madfloridian]

112. You are also accusing Dean of favoritism? Now that is just pathetic.

[CakeGrrl]

154. The new Clinton spin: "Favoritism" = "Rules that don't work in our favor" n/t

[johnnydrama]

119. listen up

The decision to not count FL or MI's votes was made when Hillary was 30 points ahead.

So how exactly was it made to favor Obama.

Jeez people, have some common fucking sense.

[President Kerry]

171. thank you! Amazing how people forget that.

[ErinBerin84]

111. I'm sorry.

Bill, I just don't buy the sale of Hillary as the anti-establishment candidate who the Democratic party is conspiring against. Hillary has had the help of countless democratic machines in states just by virtue of being a former first lady (I'm not saying this to diminish Hillary Clinton as a candidate. She is an extremely competent and worthy candidate, but I think it's obvious that a lot of the political machine help has been because of Bill Clinton). Christ, how many superdelegates came out for Hillary Clinton before a single vote had been cast? If Bill wants to play this card, he is doing it in an incredibly tone deaf manner.

[Freida5]

116. Go Bill. Count the Florida and Michigan votes.

[thoughtcrime1984]

117. Not only will she not be Pres, she won't be VP either

they pushed people too far. Is that how they get their way, by chastising Democrats?? Ridiculous. I am embarrassed for them.

[NashVegas]

123. And Your Objection Is ... ?

That he's being truthful in the first part, and presenting his opinions in the second and delivering some sarcastic barbs along with a helping of truth on the third?

[madfloridian]

125. That really doesn't deserve an answer, but I will try.

The man whom I used to respect and defend has lost his dignity putting the blame on everyone else for everything else.

It is sad to see, and there is no pleasure in it.

Dean has been totally fair and neutral, and all fair-minded people know it. Clinton is attacking him, mocking the party structure and rules.

That is my answer to you.

[CreekDog]

130. i sure wish they would get him an "undisclosed location"

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

131. I was wrong when I said she might not know what he is doing.

I apologize. After I heard her call with her bloggers today...I know she knows exactly what they are doing.

It is shameful. They don't care if they hurt the party.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6003215&mesg_id=6003215

Here is the link to the audio.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6003215&mesg_id=6003361

[Samantha]

134. Bill Clinton has gone from being the Big Dog to the Mad Dog

The Obama campaign went to purchase the 50-state cable buy and was told by the cable company they could not eliminate one state, such as Florida. The only alternative was to make separate buys, which would cost the campaign a lot more money. With regard to the pledges the candidates themselves had signed, three of the four involved states had already had their elections. The fourth, Florida, was openly requesting to be relieved from that pledge with the candidates. The Obama candidate requested advice from the DNC, going thru its Representative in South Carolina (I believe her last name was Fowler and she was the SC DNC chair, which is where the two candidates' campaigns were at the moment). Her response, documented, was that it was okay for the Obama campaign to make the 50-state cable purchase. I am sure she had to check that out with the National Office before signing off on that release, but I saw no public indication of that.

Bill Clinton, in his tirade, completely omitted these facts, released into the public domain AT THAT TIME.

[madfloridian]

135. Yes, Obama got specific permission for that ad....

:hi:

[frog92969]

139. Which means Clinton could have done the same.

But she didn't want a 50 state strategy anyway.

[rebel with a cause]

144. No, but now that she is in Kentucky, the neighboring states are being...

bombarded with her ads, and news announcements of their appearances, and coverage of their appearances. I live in Illinois but the CBS, NBC, and FOX local cable channels come from Kentucky and Missouri, and the Clinton machine is hitting them hard. I am watching mostly non-local channels now, because I don't like over flowing political ads on the whole. I know this is different in the sense that it is not against the rules for them to flood Illinois and Missouri while they are campaigning in Kentucky, but you would think it would give them a bit of understanding in how stations are now broadcast further (thinks to cable and satellite) than they once were. Just my own humble opinion.

[charlie]

142. Those two love the word "obliterate", don't they?

ObliterateObliterateObliterate!

[PaulaFarrell]

148. Clinton defintion of obliteration:

Not having your vote counted in a primary. That puts Hillary's comments about Iran in a new light. If they launch a nuclear attack against Israel, Hillary will...not let them vote

[JNelson6563]

150. Much ado about nothing

The hysterics in this thread are hilarious. Bill's rantings would also be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

Michigan and Florida will be seated though there may be some penalty. My hope is that the Supers (at least in MI) who screwed this whole thing up and tried hard to throw the primary to "their girl" are deprived of their votes.

Julie

[LiberalArkie]

152. But Jack Stevens said Hillary could be presidents after poppy's son had a go of it.

[Skidmore]

156. Interesting. I just heard an MSNBC reporter this morning say something about the DLCers

and other conservative Dems and the Jewish voters are "concerned" about Obama's foreign policy statements this week. Now that makes me firmly believe that Obama is on the right track for meaningful change in the US and the world. We can't forever live with a powder keg threatening to ignite and blow up the world. We need dialogue and cooler heads to prevail. It is time to put extremism of any stripe or hue to bed and to prevent moneyed entities of any political persuasion from exploiting that extremism for the sake of power.

[TBF]

158. To use Bill's own words, he needs to chill! I guess with Hillary toning down her rhetoric,

Bill decided to ratchet up his attacks. Just disgusting. It is sad that the two of them are going to be remembered for this crappy campaign. Their legacy now consists of divisiveness and racial hatred.

[book_worm]

160. Bill knows and everybody knows that FL and MI will be seated but it won't make a bit of difference

in the outcome.

[catgirl]

164. They need their excuse for losing

This is their excuse (but we would have won with FL and MI). The only
thing is, either way they would still lose.

[1monster]

166. madfloridian lets loose ANOTHER vicious attack on the Clintons today....

and on anyone who had the absolute gall not to worship Howard Dean.

It's time to hang up your guns. By all accounts on DU and other places, Obama has won and it is all over but the announcement. And Howard Dean will probably keep his job.

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

169. Madfloridian tells the truth about what Bill Clinton said.

Like it or not.

He is attacking the party structure, he is trying to hurt the party.

[K Gardner]

177. Mad quotes another news article ! Bill should stop saying this crap if he doesn't want

reporters to report it and bloggers to pick up on it.

[grantcart]

167. Nothing shows that they know they are going to lose with the DNC more than

when they attack it.

It is so over now that even if they get the most favorable ruling on MI and FL then they will still be behind by 50 delegates.

You have to wonder if these crazy people want to take it to the convention floor?

I think it is all about pressuring for the VP job.

[happygoluckytoyou]

172. WATCH OUT --- HERE COMES THE STAIN ON THE BLUE PANTSUIT

WHY DOES HILLARY KEEP A GUN IN HER PURSE? TO KEEP THE INTERNS OUT OF THE WHITEHOUSE
WHY DOES HILLARY KEEP AN EXTRA ROUND IN HER POCKET? TO KEEP BILL OUT OF THE INTERNS

ITS OVER-THE-HILLARY.... TIME TO GO.... LET OBAMA CHOOSE A DIFFERENT WOMAN OR HISPANIC FOR THE NUMBER 2 SPOT....

THERE ARE MANY DEMOCRATS.... NOT JUST THE 2 OF YOU.... NOT JUST THE 9 WHO RAN....

HUNDREDS WITH WIDE EXPERIENCES IN THE POLITICAL ARENA.... AND MOST WITHOUT YOUR BAGGAGE

[Enrique]

173. aw, that poor widdle fragile kitten known as the DNC

that bad bad monster with the big head is being mean to it. :cry:

[casus belli]

174. We didn't hear this rhetoric when McAuliffe did the same thing. Why now? n/t

[cui bono]

178. re: nat'l ad... Clinton also held fundraisers when they weren't allowed to campaign.

They're even.

So now Bill, STFU and GO HOME!!!

[Grinchie]

181. What a Maroon

As Bugs Bunny would say..

How dare he? Well, if he doesn't salvage the Clinton legacy, he might be considered impotent. A little too late for that, which is why it's so fricking hilarious that watch this pack of millionaires self destruct. Truly will be in the History books.

Just remember this, Bill Clinton is DLC. Bill Clinton is former Attorney General of Arkansas. Bill Clinton is a Lawyer. Bill Clinton thinks he can interpret agreements in a way that benefits himself the most. Apparently, this applies to Hillary as well.

They are blowing smoke out of their ass most of the time, like most lawyers do, trying to implant some sort of viewpoint that they have been wrong or damaged.

Now if they were to come out and say that they personally talked about the ramifications of what the Florida Democrats did to the Florida Democratic Party, and advise them not to do it, maybe they would have a shred of credibility. But they are on the attack, and it's not going to stick, because the decision was made long ago, and in MY world, history does not change once it has been recorded on paper, unless of course, you mark it as a state secret and hide it from everyone.

[zulchzulu]

182. Bill Clinton doesn't have a corner market on following rules and being truthful

He has shown himself to be exactly what Democrats were warned about... a lying scumbag.

[Beacool]

186. Tell it like it is Bill!!!!!!!!!!

Come Novemnber..........no Hillary, NO Obama.

[paulk]

187. well, you've got us all at each other's throats again

mission accomplished.

[madfloridian]

191. LOL yes it is all my fault.

The Clintons can do and say anything to divide us, to divide my state....and I am to blame.

[paulk]

193. well, that's your POV, I guess

mine is that it's people like you that divide us - with your constant need to be outraged, your constant spin of anything and everything to feed that outrage...

[madfloridian]

194. Hey look over here what Madfloridian is doing....ignore what the Clintons are doing.

shhhh look over here.

[paulk]

195. you mean, your spin on what the Clintons are doing

those evil, horrible Clintons

whatever gets you off, I suppose....

[Rene]

192. Once again, Bill Clinton is absolutely right. pouncing obama bloggers jump on his case

as is their mission to muddy the truth......but Bill is absolutely right.

Go Hillary....fight to the floor of the Convention.

[defendandprotect]

196. Bill Clinton is a founding member of the DLC --- and HRC is part of DLC leadership --- !!!

They don't like Obama . . . .

It don't work out corporate-wise for them . . .