Message to any Obama staffers lurking on DU.....

[Laura PourMeADrink]

Please, please do not fall into any trap that makes you feel you HAVE
to pick Hillary as a running mate.

You don't. You don't have to pay her debt. You don't have to
put her on the ticket. You don't have to put her in the Cabinet.
Just let her fizzle out in due course.

Her self-aggrandizing statements are just that. Hot air to make
you think you can not win without her! BUT, you do not need
her to win! We will all work our hearts out to offset any loss due
to disgruntled Hillary fans. Besides, you have no guarantee she wouldn't
work against you, behind the scenes, no matter what bones you threw her way.

It is truly time to turn the page!

[Pisces]

1. I second that.

[David Dunham]

2. Hillary would be an asset to Obama's ticket

[Cha]

9. No she wouldn't ..she's been nothing but an a$$

and she's already gambled and burned that bridge.

Let me count the ways and this is only the tip of the IceBerg.

[blonndee]

12. "Obama is wrong and I'm...white!"

Dayum!

And the Stuart Smalley take-off is pretty smart too. (That whole skit was one of my SNL favorites.)

[Joe Bacon]

130. Hillary is dissolving like an Alka-Seltzer tablet!

She's all plop plop fizz fizz but none of the relief.

It would be nice to see if Obama could get Bill Nelson on the ticket. Would help patch things up in Florida!

[butterfly77]

159. No!

[Cieran]

158. Purge the Dixiecrats from our party!

We don't need Hillary and her supporters in WV who simply "don't like that whole Hussein thing".

We've already picked up more than enough disillusioned, disenfranchised Republicans to make up for the loss of the Dixiecrats, and in the General Election we'll pick up a good 10% more of the Republican base when all the anti-war Ron Paul supporters are finally free to vote Obama (I'm counting on Ron staying in till the convention to fuck up the party a bit :).

[How to be positive]

191. Bwahahahaha!

[Genevieve]

47. No THEY won't..... eom

[Ken Burch]

51. She'd have to start by admitting that it's certain that Obama will LEAD the ticket.

And she'd also have to agree from this day on only to attack McCain.

I don't think she's ready to do either, and even if she was, I don't think her more zealous supporters would tolerate it if she did.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

156. i cannot see her taking that awesome leap.

she never accepted a #2 role before, not even when bill was president. SHE DEMANDED and got control over the domestic issues and we remember how well that went.

How many people did she choose (unvetted) before picking Janet Reno?

[RaleighNCDUer]

63. She would be a great source

of republican attack ads. All they'd have to do is endlessly loop her saying that he is not up to it, too inexperienced, just an empty suit with empty words -

They'd get to attack Obama while making her look ridiculous, and not do a thing themselves.

[ekwhite]

83. I wish she were, but she won't be an asset

Hillary Clinton on the ticket would drive right-wingers into a frenzy, bring McCain money, and drive up the right-wing vote. I would rather see Obama propose her as a Supreme Court Justice to a Democratic senate. Supreme Court justice would be just about the perfect position for her - it might just make Scalia's head explode.

[jimshoes]

120. That's not a bad idea actually

I really wouldn't mind seeing Hillary on the SC. I just don't want her on the ticket this year.

[ekwhite]

125. Absolutely. I could get behind a Hillary for the Supreme Court campaign

The downside is her corporatist ties. The upside is her strong support for women's rights. She would be a strong counterbalance to Reich wingers like Scalia and Roberts.

[Frisbee]

148. I also agree...

...that a SC appointment is exactly what I'd like to see for her (been saying it for months). They should promise her that at the first opening, she'll be their nominee. They should do it VERY privately though, to acknowledge it publicly would really antagonize the pro-lifers who may otherwise be unimpressed by McInsane. With the youthful RWers GWB has added, we need to get some young liberals on there, and barring heath problems, Hillary could serve for a good long time. I believe that at some point in the past Hillary has made a comment that she'd like to serve on the SC.

[NorthCarolina]

155. Hillary is still more conservative than moderate

and I really think the court needs a healthy dose of Liberal to counteract the Conservative leanings. Moderately conservative like DLC'er Hillary won't cut it and may actually tip the scale further to the right. Besides that, she is an admitted liar, remember Bosnia? I really think you need to be a "truth teller" at a minimum to sit on the highest court of the land. Hillary is best to remain in the Senate until her term runs out.

[RaleighNCDUer]

168. No way.

Her ONLY stand that we could trust would be on RvW, and that, frankly, is not enough of a reason to put another corpratist neo-lib on the court.

The last thing we need to to have corporate imperialism enshrined on the Supreme Court.

[Yavapai]

186. Maybe John Edwards for the Supreme Court,

and Hillary for Attorney General? She might have the gumption to go after the war criminals.

[RaleighNCDUer]

202. I could live with that.

But she'd have to have the president TELLING her to go after the war criminals. She's DLC, and thus has no personal interest in doing so.

[MJJP21]

96. albatross

Hillary would be an albatross around his neck. Consider the baggage of her past going back to Watergate and Whitewater for starters. You can also bet Bill will be working on deals that might not be favorable to an Obama White House. The risk is too great with too many loose cannons on deck. No way no how to Hillary on the ticket.

[gal]

115. Ugh no she would not be a assett.

Putting her on the ticket is the first way to show the American People you lied, you did not mean change.
Hillary Clinton is not a change, she is as old politics as you can get, just look at her campaign to see that.

[debunkthelies]

190. No to Hillary

Obama would have to spend the next 8 years looking over his shoulder, if she were second in command how long do you think he would last. Just look back to Kennedy and Johnson.
Sorry Hillary fans that's just my gut feeling.:tinfoilhat:

[Buzz Clik]

117. She'd be pure poison.

[mod mom]

128. Can you imagine having Bill Clinton second guessing your every decision then going

public w his opinions? I believe President Obama would work best with some congenial who has not publicly attacked his experience. Hillary's high negatives among independents would also bring down the ticket.

I propose Sen Jim Webb-an experienced military leader, a former Republican who served under Reagan as Secretary of the Navy, whose son has served in Iraq, and who is a southern from a state (Virginia) that might go blue this year.

[Crunchy Frog]

175. You misspelled the word "ass hat". n/t

[DesertFlower]

3. agreed. nt

[Nitrogenica]

4. I third that. There are plenty of great candidates with significantly less baggage.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

16. OMG ! That pic ! love it. I looked at it and thought - who the hell is that ! nt

[MonkeyFunk]

5. LOL

Yes,I'm sure Obama comes to DU for all his campaign advice.

[musicblind]

25. Of course monkeyfunk, don't you know? Where else would he get his campaign advice?

Nicely paid, highly educated, well experienced advisers? Naaaaaah, he should definitely go with DU instead.

[Rockholm]

126. It seems that this is where his staffers hang out.

Endless threads on how great he is and how awful Hillary is.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NC_Nurse]

6. I agree. She won't help the ticket and it's not fair for anyone to force her on

the winner - OBAMA!

We need to win. We need change. We need fresh politics in this country - not the same old tired shit.

[awoke_in_2003]

124. Would love to see John Edwards along

for the ride. As an aside, I saw a pic the other day of him and Obama on stage smiling. For some reason the Kennedy brothers popped into my head.

[Cha]

7. Thanks Laura Pack Your Bags!

If necessary Obama and campaign will get the biggest petition they ever saw in order to make sure "that woman" is nowhere near our Dem ticket.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

24. great idea. isn't there a website that let's you set up petitions?

[Cha]

32. Here we go...

"SAY NO TO HILLARY FOR VP

Sign the Petition!

"We the undersigned respectfully urge Senator Obama not to include Hillary Clinton on a general election ticket when he secures the Democratic nomination for the Presidency of the United States of America. While we have enormous respect for Senator Clinton and her work, we recognize that the change this country requires prohibits us from supporting her as a Vice Presidential candidate. Senator Clinton does not represent the kind of change we need in Washington - and will not help Barack Obama unite the country to tackle the most extreme challenges that face our nation. Two families have occupied seats in the executive branch of the United States government for over 10,000 consecutive days. In order to truly turn the page, it is our belief that Senator Hillary Clinton must be removed from any "short list" for vice presidential consideration."

http://nohillaryforvp.com/

[Laura PourMeADrink]

36. Wow - you're the greatest ! Did you do that? Or was it already

out there? Why don't you post it in a separate thread?

[Cha]

38. I did not do that..I remembered there was a

petition on here last week or so ..so I googled it. I think this is the one I signed.

I don't start threads but you can put it up again if you have any threads left..
As Obama says..this is our campaign too.

[DeeDeeNY]

107. Thanks for the link. NT

[frog92969]

81. Thank you for that link.

Passing it around now, I don't know anybody who wants Clinton anywhere near the WH.

[gateley]

8. She won't bring the Republican voters over that we need. nt

[ClayZ]

10. I agree!

K and R

[Mags]

11. You are right, cause it won't make a difference for Hillary supporters

He can not win their vote no matter what appeasement he thinks will work to get the typical white vote, the Jewish vote, the uneducated vote etc, etc, you know the ones he has desposed of.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

26. I understand ! When I thought she would win, I said I would never

ever vote for her either. I'm sorry you are going to miss out on this exciting, wonderful
race against McCain though.

[sfaprog]

28. How exactly did he do that?

Seriously. I realize you are probably upset about Hillary not winning. But I'm curious how some of you Hillary supporters are blaming this on Obama. He has been a gentleman and remained classy throughout this campaign.

And don't kid yourself - a registered Dem not voting in the GE is the exact same as voting for McCain. It puts Dems down one vote.

[DeSwiss]

49. Do you wear those blinders all the time???

- Or do you take them off when you go to bed???

[nvme]

64. Please make no assuption

Just because there are many angry Obama supporter does not mean that Obama the candidate will not do everything possible to unite the party. If you think that McCain will lead the country in the best direction then vote for him. You have that right. However when your in that voting booth, think about things like the seperation of powers, corporate welfare, Universal healthcare, civil rights, the supreme court. Then make your choice. You will not be helping anyone but yourself and your country. Do not throw a tantrum because you have smug Obama supporter assholes trying gloat. Because if you vote against your own best interest for the sake of hurt pride, then you will be the lesser.

[NOLALady]

152. Do you think those groups will do just fine

under a McCain presidency?

If so, they should vote in their best interests if they think McCain will deliver.

[ExPatLeftist]

178. Nice collection of RW talking points.

"Appeasement" is the word of the week for the neocons and Fox News.

And the other "points" are unproven and unfounded.

You should be so proud of parroting that RW crap here.


BTW - About, "He can not win <Clinton supporters'> vote (sic) no matter what..." Speak for yourself: I know plenty of Clinton supporters that will get behind Obama in the GE. You do NOT speak for all Hillary supporters, and you are arrogant to even think that you do. Be a sore loser and enable Bush III all you want, but don't claim that you speak for anyone but yourself. I know a lot of Hillary Clinton supporters that are also good Democrats and will vote for our party in the GE.

[Moochy]

203. Re-Plonk

No Amnesty for hillary fans like you.

[onehandle]

13. Wishful thinking that they are here and would listen. They view DU in the same light as FR.

Seriously.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

27. I'm not convinced of that at all. Had a post here that I sent to

many in the media and to Obama campaign managers. The very next day, Plouffe
issued a statement with most of the same exact points, points that had never
been made by the campaign before that. Coincidence, maybe.

[helderheid]

14. I'm not sure. I had something hit me tonight.

Unless we voters come out the way they did in 2006, it can be stolen again.

ETA: Perhaps all the new voters will cancel out the ones who refuse to vote for Obama.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

22. I think we will lose some. But I think we have a new paradigm --

a new coalition. Up is down. Down is up. Red isn't always red anymore and conversely, blue may not always be
blue anymore. To me, his appeal transcends all that. One thing we need to remember too, Helderheid, is
the brilliant way he and his team pulled off the nomination win. They'll do that again. He knew exactly what he'd get and what
what he wouldn't and where to find votes. I don't know if you worked for him - but I was truly amazed at
the organization. And now, it's all in place and millions upon millions are ready and raring to go!

Just remember -- half the people in the country said they would never vote for her. Why bring that in to drag him down?

Just think how much better this will all be too - when he adds a wonderful running mate - that we respect. It's weird,
after reading his book - I just know he'll pick someone great!

[helderheid]

31. I needed this - thank you!!

[JuniperLea]

15. Most importantly...

Don't think all Obama supporters are filled with hate. Some of us really get Obama... he is a terrific role model.

[Diane R]

17. Agree....I second that emotion.

[gcomeau]

18. VP no.. help her retire her debt, YES.

Not out of money people specifically donated to Obama for campaigning of course, but Obama can put on a Clinton specific fundraising drive and anyone who wants to help out with that effort can contribute. Olive branches to reconcile the support bases after a very emotionally charged battle ARE necessary here folks. Let's not get too petty to see the big picture.

[RazBerryBeret]

while it would be a noble act....

I have trouble justifying that. John Glenn, from my state, paid off his campaign debt in 2006---it took him 22 YEARS to pay it off....it doesn't quite seem fair that Hillary could get out of it so easily.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/ba...

[frog92969]

84. Maybe

But if so, don't give it to her, give it to all the people she stiffed.

[emilyg]

19. They are not lurking here. Geez.

[Fox Mulder]

20. I 20th that.

[Sparkly]

21. Message to people who think Obama's advisors are amateurs who need their advice...

They aren't, and they don't.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

29. #27

[Darth_Kitten]

111. Right, they know it all.

n/t

[Mme. Defarge]

23. Hillary has run an inelegant, embarrasing, incompetent campaign

and has forfeited the right to run on the same ticket as Obama.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. I think Obama would sooner gnaw off his own foot than put her on the ticket.

I think his people are probably doing the sensible thing; i.e. thinking of some position HRC can be offered in an Obama admin. or the Senate that would be appropriate, but that is NOT VP.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## DON'T DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Whatever you do, do not click the link below!

[OzarkDem]

34. Hillary should never lower her standards to be Obama's running mate

Strong, intelligent women Dem leaders should resist the temptation Obama and other Dems have succumbed to - playing the role of corporate puppets, shilling for dollars.

[Pisces]

42. shilling for dollars is a job Hillary has already taken. If Obama wanted to hit her through

this campaign he could have on a number of her improprieties, but he didn't. He could have run ads on Snipergate, demanded to know the library donors. He could have run ads on Norman Hsu, He could have called her out on calling herself a girl therefore making herself a sexist joke. He could have demanded she renounce Rush Limbaugh instead of encourage his antics. He did nothing to put down his rival dem candidate. You are delusional and hysterical that your candidate lost of her own doing. She ran a bad campaign and trusted the wrong people. '

Go after Penn, Ickes and Wolfson and don't forget Patti Solis Doyle. There is where your anger should be directed.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DeSwiss]

52. Have you checked where Hills....

...gets http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011131.php">her money from??? I mean besides the money she loans herself?

- Maybe you could have a cup or two of coffee. It might help. If not, I recommend you try 12-year old scotch. Single malt...

[jbm]

147. absolutely!..n/t

.

[ExPatLeftist]

179. I'd be really interested to hear why you consider BO more of a corporate puppet than HC.

Sounds like a post from Bizarro World.


BTW Your post reeks of grapes of the sour variety. Hope it will end soon and you will join us in defeating McCain in the GE.

[KAZ]

35. Hillary is a joke now. Not a chance in hell,

[Lena inRI]

37. Oh yesiree. . make a clean cut. . .

. . .and I'm POSITIVE Team Obama feels the same way.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[KAZ]

40. Sorry, don't give a shit about what you think.

[Lena inRI]

45. What are you saying?

Though I'm agreeing and adding to your comment, you dismiss me with "shit"?

Does. Not. Make. Sense.
:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[KSinTX]

70. Welcome to insanity

You know you've hit rock bottom when you find yourself actually fighting with someone to agree with them. Geez, isn't this pathetic? I can't wait for the GE personally.

[KAZ]

144. I sincerely apologize Lena. Completely misread.

And even if I didn't misread, my reply was crap. I broke my personal rule about posting late in the evening. I'm just a cranky old man when I get tired.

[Lena inRI]

192. Your apology gladly accepted, KAZ . .

. . .and glad I questioned you quickly to clear up the mishap. . .

learned that from Obama, the quick responder to swift-boating. . .

He's going to be a model for all of us, both young and old, to copy. . .

GOBAMA ALL THE WAY!

:headbang: :kick: :headbang: :kick: :headbang:

[Ken Burch]

54. Yeah Kaz, you're response to that Lena's post was out of line.

Why diss somebody who AGREED with you?

You did not do Obama any favors there.

Apologize already.

[DeSwiss]

55. Geeze....

...lighten up!!!

[Ronnie]

39. This thread is a joke.

[KAZ]

41. Buh-bye.

[Jim Sagle]

86. You won't be missed.

[barb162]

48. It certainly is. n/t

[DeSwiss]

58. And your avatar is closer to Hillary's future....

...nothing.

[DeSwiss]

56. You're avatar is the joke... n/t

[Ronnie]

184. Your.

Your - possessive pronoun
You're - You are

[juajen]

161. Yeah, some joke! Even as we write, preparing to give him

a deserved trouncing in Kentucky. No answer needed here, I don't stick around long enough to get my clothes dirty.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

44. LOL ... I'm sure the Obama campaign has been ...

waiting for your advice.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

46. #27

[DeSwiss]

50. I thought when you got married....

...it was a dowry you were su'posed to get. Not debts and lobbyists.

- Hillary, just go away. Far, far away...



- K&R!!! Oh, yeah and http://nohillaryforvp.com/">I signed!!!

[Swamp Rat]

53. Keep ignoring Hillary.

She's unfit for executive office. I hope she loses her senate seat to a REAL progressive Democrat when her term is up.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

57. Obama staffers lurking!

Are any of them church members! If they are lurking! If they are here is a question. What are the ten wrong ways about wright!

[Swamp Rat]

59. Hey!!!

:hi: Way'at Wash. state Desk Jet! I've never seen you out of the Louisiana forum! :hi:

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

61. Sometimes I venture out on the town

Not very often though!

[Swamp Rat]

62. Glad to see you.

:hi: And I'm glad I got the chance to talk with you 'live'. :)

FYI, "Way'at" is how we say "hello, how are you" here in New Orleans. :D

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

67. Your art is good!

The real night out is a surprise for the lady, she love to dance to swing! Little does she know there is somewhat of a southern acentric at heart here! I only know of one place to go for what she loves so much!

[Swamp Rat]

69. Thanks!

Some folks don't think so. :D

In Lafayette, Louisiana, you can find a place to dance to Cajun music any day of the week.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

71. That 's the idea

Anywhere outside of the place is just a simulation, unless you have danced it up good where it all began! I know she will see what I mean when I surprise her with the plane trip tickets! When the time is right.

[Swamp Rat]

72. If you don't mind me asking, where are you going?

I hope you have a great time wherever it is.

If I had money, I'd fly to Brazil and dance to samba and forró music for a few months, until my visa expired. :D

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

73. Here we go,!

New Orleans,Nashville Tenn. Georgia, Buffalo N.Y. Niagara Falls, Hamilton Ontario Canada than Toronto Ont.Back to Washington state.That will be my last trip back east.We don't spend very much money.

[Swamp Rat]

76. Wow! Have a great trip!

I look forward to reading about your adventure in the Louisiana forum. Take photos!

This thread in the Louisiana forum has some good tips on what to do when you come to New Orleans (some other DUers are coming to visit too):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=155x3756

There are plenty of great sights outside the French Quarter, like the Audubon Zoo, IMAX Theater and Aquarium if the Americas, Magazine Street antique shops, and Streetcar rides to Uptown.

:hi: Bon voyage :hi:

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

78. Still in the planning and saving stages,

But that's the plan. Her mother is from Georgia,mine is from Tenn. You can guess the rest! Thanks, we are going to take it slow and easy!

[DeSwiss]

60. Well, here's one....

- What are the other nine???

[ima_sinnic]

97. awww, poor widdle desperate Hillary shill, still stuck on pastorgate

sorry, that train already left. it didn't work then and it won't work now. In fact, Obama picked up a few percentage points as a result of Hillary's back-stabbing.

and your ignorance about Wright is typical of the low-info ignorami Hillary base.

[Darth_Kitten]

114. Her seat's secure, check out why Obama won HIS.

:rofl:

Oh, this is getting beyond funny.

[Swamp Rat]

127. War mongers and their sycophants think they are secure.

It's a delusion that is wearing thin on We the People.

[KnaveRupe]

65. The Obama campaign has been EXTREMELY well-run this far.

I trust that they know what they are doing. If they decide Hillary as VP is the best bet to win in November, I'll trust them on that. If they think someone else is best, I'll trust that they know what they are doing there as well. This hasn't been some "Bob-Shrum-campaign-by-the-numbers" effort so far - Obama's team are on top of things.

That's not me being a "Kool-aid chugging Obamite cultist", that's a rational response to what has been a brilliant campaign run by a team that "gets it".

I really don't think we have to worry that Obama will get blindsided, buffaloed, bullied, or bullshat by team Hillary. He knows who she is, and if he picks her, it will be because he has decided it's best for the campaign.

My 2c.


(edit for typos)

[Jim Sagle]

66. Here's my message to those same staffers: Fuck off.

[ExPatLeftist]

181. For what? Or do you just enjoy behaving like a juvenile? n/t

[Snarkoleptic]

68. Inviting her into the tent would send the wrong message by rewarding her obscene behavior.

[ruby slippers]

74. AND Please tell Obama to COME TO NorthEast Florida, too, not

just the south. We will support him.....in Jacksonville.....

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

164. We'll also support him....

....in Tallahassee. The college students here seem to go apeshit @ the sound of Obama's name. I went to a little rally @ a local tavern, and the "little rally" almost shut the bar town because there were so many people.

[ruby slippers]

199. yeah, and he isn't going to the Panhandle either.....and

what about Gainesville? The students there would support him, too, I bet....

[mrbluto]

75. offset any loss due disgruntled Hillary fans?

How charming. Just the tact to take.

How about pissed-off Edwards supporters?

As one I remember how I got treated and the anti-Edwards comments around here by Obama people.

Am I causing a loss?

Perhaps you'd be better off without me?

Obama people better take the frigg'n beam out of their own eye before picking splinters out of mine.

If there's a cause for loss it's mainly smug zealots.

I swear posts like yours must come from someone other than an actual Obama supporter - no one who truly wanted to do their candidate any favors would luxuriate in such smugness.

A pack of sore winners - just what we need to have a unified party. Yesiree.

Don't bother responding. I expect you guys to stick your fingers in your ears and sing "La la la la" "Let it sink."

[Laura PourMeADrink]

113. You know, this IS politics? This is the primary season. This is

how it works. Many run. One wins. Has happened every single election. If every losing candidate's
supporters said they would never get onboard with the nominee - there would only be a very small
part of the electorate voting every November. The most people said he was their favorite. You
either stop and say do we want to win in Nov? Or you become so "disgruntled" that you stay home
or vote for a puke. Is putting her on the ticket the only way you would vote Obama? If it is
then we (the Obama supporters and Obama) just have to make the best of it and try to find enough
other people to make up for the loss of your vote.

[mrbluto]

200. So people must be destroyed in the primary?

And we have to hand ammunition to Republicans who certainly can't afford to discuss the issues?

You want to know what really pisses me off?

This entire primary, where we have the press salivating to cover what democrats have to say - what happens?

The party allowed the MSM to turn it into the "Woman versus a Black" show.

With some unity, rather than this clawing and scratching to get the office, it could have been different.

Candidates could have held to not showing up on Faux, except under favorable conditions.

Candidates could have pushed to have the crimes of the Bush administration looked into.

It is not enough to fix the mess - we have to make sure people know what happened and that those who conspire to flout the rule of law face prosecution and punishment. The twenty or thirty-something Karl Roves of today, whom will be "blooming" on to the political scene in ten or 20 years, need a shot across their bow at the very least.

There's all this talk about Obama saying "No preconditions to speak with leaders of nations with whom we are not friends."

Perfectly reasonable - you have your staff put in elbow grease ahead of time and, while not making the linkage direct, meet only when it's clear there's an expectation of progress.

But this is what the Democratic party should do with the MSM and the Bush administration:

Have some unity and insist the truth gets told, crimes examined, action taken.

Imagine if, rather than acting like cats stuck in a bag with the MSM whacking them with a stick, imagine if all the main candidates at a debate said "Hey Russert, screw your questions - each of us is going to take a minute and describe why a member of the administration ought to be in jail. (or at least an earnest investigation and/or prosecution should happen)"

Look - doesn't it bother you that Edwards basically got vetoed as a candidate by the MSM?

It would have been nice to see him as president, but more importantly I believe the issues he would have brought to the fore would have had a beneficial effect whether or not he got the nomination.

No - it was all hedge funds and haircuts. Or Rezko and Sniperfire. And the people on this board lapped it up. Many echoing the same freeper themes and swaggering with shadenfreude, congratulating themselves that their guy was that much more likely to win. All the while bashing, and bashing, and bashing people whose help they'll need down the road.

In an honest, clean competition there's not dishonor in not prevailing, but with the mud that's been slung you'd have to have little self respect to turn around and smile at this point. Maybe time would take the sting off and one would do the practical thing.

Take a look around this board. They aren't making that easy.

Even your post undelines part of the problem: you make absolutely no case for voting for Obama - only that the alternative is worse. You make absolutely no case at all. You merely say, in effect "I guess we'll have to figure out a way to replace you." This is precisely the sort of thought that operates in the managerial minds of our current corporate leadership - the squeaky wheel gets replaced. This was your first impulse. This is the sort of dynamic that makes people bunker down and fight dirty - the sense that the minute they're not in power they're gonna get kicked off the island. That those with power don't see them as people, but only as consumers, or workers - or "votes" that must be made up. Dehumanizing.

Given that is the underlying current of your thought, and here you are on a liberal board, what sort of footing does that put us on to combat having the country in general run like that?

Love it or leave it? Who the fuck will take us?

And once we cover the planet? Then what?

Most of the malice in the world stems from people position for some sort of end game. People who enjoy malice will even dream up end games, just so they have an excuse for malice.

At some point the real solution is to quit playing games, stop attacking the dignity of every "enemy", understand your "opponent", come to an understanding, and hammer out a sustainable, mutually beneficial way to proceed.

That was the intent of the constitution, the bill of rights, having a liberal democracy, etc.

But it's been purposefully damaged and gamed - repairs are necessary.

Why not start with the Democratic party?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

205. Thank you for your thoughtful response. You make some very

good points. I can not think of a way to tell Obama, or at least hope to tell Obama, not to
pick Hillary without speaking vitupuratively (my new favorite word from Rachelle Maddow).

But you are so right - we haven't set forth our reasons why we think Hillary supporters
should vote for Obama. My next project. It seems to me the old "which came first, the
chicken or the egg." Did Hillary fans start trashing Obama first or did we start trashing
Hillary first? (rhetorical point only).

Do you think maybe this has gotten out of hand because their differences are so slight
in policy that it's all about gut feelings, personalities, and who you just plain like?

If you asked me a year ago if we would all be at each other's throats I never, ever
would have imagined it. I, myself, would have never thought that I'd be saying earlier
this year that if Hillary had won, I'd not vote for her.

So, I understand, based on my own former feelings, that there will be a group of people
who will not switch to O - basically because you can not force yourself to like someone
if in your gut you do not. This was one reason why, early on, I thought Hillary's
campaign was ultimately a losing proposition -- because half the country said
(Zogby 2007) that they would never, ever vote for her. Forget that it's Hillary
it didn't seem wise to me no matter who it was, starting below zero - given that the
repukes would pile on.

Thank you for your post to me. I appreciate it. And, if I could edit this, I think
I would change the tone considerably.

As for the media - it seems there is probably little we can do to change it since it
is all about money except to hopefully, one day soon, liberals will pool money to
start an independent, honest, open news network.

P.S. In the meantime, if you could find it possible to read Obama's book(s) - I would
love to know if you change your mind about him in any way. Just sayin.

[mrbluto]

206. Oh - I'll vote for him.

I'm just concerned about how it all comes about and what happens inside the Democratic party.

I'm very concerned that, due to shallow understandings, disunity and internal fractures, the chance to really remediate what has gone on for the past 8+ years could be squandered.

There are things coming up where I wish we'd have a president that couldn't be dismissed on weak prejudicial grounds, where there'd be no excuse not to listen to a full repudiation of what went on.

This is in part why I thought Edwards was our best chance to fix things. For some who would dismiss what a "woman" or a "black" said, they would have much less room to squirm away from the truth if a white, southern, male still pushed their nose into the mess their bigoted attitudes have cultivated, that and just how royally screwed they were by their conservative "heroes". The rest of us, while nowhere near enlightened, more or less "get it" - it's the remaining 28%r's that screw the pooch (IMHO). They provide the 1% with ready-made shock troops of ignorance at their beck and call.

I could go on, but I have a paper due 9am on monday.

One last bit about the media - we, in this conversation, are in the midst of the new media. It's arguable that the internet is the medium which allowed Obama that extra needed push to break through the MSM barricade. Net Neutrality, Free & Open Source software, Anti-censorship efforts are the as-yet-unacknowledged battle going on right now. Maybe I'll read an Obama book this summer - I encourage you to check out Net Neutrality issues if you get some free browsing time. (for example: http://freepress.net)

BTW - Thanks for your response!

[countmyvote4real]

77. Politics is politics and I still say NO.

She is an anchor that will drag down the agendas of both primary candidates because she is HRC. Her negatives are huge and they get worse the longer she ignores the delegate math. Not going to happen unless... She is smart enough to do the math. Is she stupid enough to infer an incident (aka assassination) Probably not, but she is smart enough to couch the call. She shouldn't be in this race anymore, but she's holding on to some future event that changes the math in her favor.

If Obama is assassinated, HRC is the next to the last person I would vote for.

It's also very disheartening (and hypocritical) when the wife of the "First Black POTUS" spouts their contrived shit against Obama. Under the previously described circumstances I would be forced to vote for Nader or Barr. They are not my first choice, but neither was Obama. Edwards was my dog. When he dropped out Obama was the only logical choice left. We need to change our country back to our country and the nation we were raised to be proud of.

Whatever happens, and there is much left to fuck us, we have to remember our constitution.

I am not suggesting that HRC would ever be complicate in assassinating a political opponent. I'm just saying that under those imagined circumstances, my vote would not land on HRC. I have no sympathy...

(koo koo ka choo)

[frog92969]

79. I think he knows better.

I hope he knows better.
I do know that he dislikes the DLC, as all Democrats should.

[lilyannerose]

80. A Hearty Amen!

[Political Heretic]

82. I would eagerly support Hillary for VP *if* I actually thought she would help him the most.

But I'm just not so sure about that.

Biden and Richardson are both very attractive possibilities that may help him more.

[jennied]

85. I agree. If Hillary is on the ticket then it will be Obama vs. Hillary for four more years....

Ugh. It will be like this campaign for four more years.

[WA98296]

87. Completely agree.

[Grinchie]

88. The idea that the Media idea that Hillary could be VP

is so stupid, I can't believe anybody would fall for it.

A decision that lame would cause money to dry up for the DNC quicker than a wink. I know I would not donate money to anything affiliated with Hillary. She'd just spend it on snow shovels and deli-platters, and has lived so high for so long, she doesn't know how to manage her money, or check the peons she hires to spent it for her.

Let her and Bill Shill for Viagra to get their money back.

Kucinich has my approval as VP. Anyone without the smell of the DLC orbiting their soul.

[DFW]

89. This is a non-issue

If nominated, he'll offer it to her, and she'll pass.

A Democratic Senate majority leader under a Democratic president
has way more power than a Vice-President, and Hillary knows it.
Lyndon Johnson was dragged kicking and screaming from his post
as Senate Majority leader to be JFK's VP for the very reason that
JFK feared LBJ's power as Senate Majority leader.

If Obama supporters want Hillary in a position of reduced power,
they should be all for her as VP. If she gets the position as
Senate Majority leader under a President Obama, she'll be calling
almost as many shots as he will.

[ima_sinnic]

95. when he's nominated, he WON'T offer it to her, because she's a backstabbing traitor to the dems

she's a shrill wannabe who now has not even a shred of dignity.

Obama is not a Clinton puppet who is beholden to her and has to offer her the VP spot.

[DFW]

118. I disagree.

He knows full well that she will refuse, and it would be smart politics
(and he is nothing if not smart) to be seen making the gesture, which will
mollify some of her supporters, when he knows he'll get the benefit and none
of the risk (she's sure to pass, and he knows it). The only thing that would
get her to accept a VP offer from Obama would be a lot of external pressure,
and I can't imagine where that might come from besides a few blogs and
editorial pages that will have exactly zero impact on either of them.

[tandot]

142. Hey, I've found something you apparently lost:

[sofa king]

102. Do you think she has enough clout to get that position?

I follow the Senate fairly closely (not as closely as I used to) and this hasn't occurred to me until I saw you mention it.

On the surface, Senate Majority Leader should be far out of reach of Sen. Clinton. Harry Reid and Richard Durbin seem to have their respective jobs lined up, Reid having done the full pull as Minority Whip before getting the top slot. Sen. Clinton, #68 on the seniority list is even at the bottom of her class of 2001 because she's the only person elected that year with no prior experience in the House of Representatives (or as a Governor). (Obama is currently #86, another quickly rising star.)

However, seniority hasn't prevented past Members from catapulting to the top of the heap in short order--Lyndon Johnson being the most famous example, winning the Majority Whip spot in 1951 and the Majority Leader position late in his first term.

This campaign certainly has dramatically improved Sen. Clinton's visibility, so perhaps you're right.

[DFW]

112. As reviled as she seems to be in some circles:

She has earned high marks among her fellow senators on both sides of the aisle
for being accessible, easy to work with, and a hard worker as well. Maybe things
change dramatically when the national spotlight is on, I don't know, but within
the Senate itself, she is a very popular figure, and I think she is an odds-on
favorite, although someone like Durbin would certainly give her a challenge if
he so desired. Like you, I don't see her lack of seniority as being an obstacle
any more than I would see Teddy Kennedy's seniority as a free ticket to Majority
Leader if he were to seek the post. It does, of course depend on any opposition
she might garner, and her chances for the post would certainly be in direct
proportion to the effort she would put into getting Obama elected. Should Obama
indeed become the nominee, my bet is that she would run herself ragged trying to
get him elected, as he would for her. Neither of them is blind enough to think
that a McCain presidency would be anything but a disaster.

[sofa king]

123. I remember Senator Byrd calling her an ace student.

He was very pleased with her willingness to learn the ropes and above all to stick with the basic Senate principle of consideration for the minority voice on all issues.

With that in mind I certainly wouldn't mind her getting that job.

[DFW]

135. A Democratic president couldn't wish for a better ally

And I'd bet that they'd work a LOT better as a team than they would if she were VP,
where she would be out of the power loop. Plus she has a LOT of IOUs on the other side
of the aisle that she could call in when a President Obama was negotiating for a piece
of legislation that might otherwise be a hard sell.

The best part would be that Joe Lieberman would become a complete non-entity! He and
McCain could form the CIRS (Club of Irrelevant Right-wing Senators).

[autorank]

90. k*r - Tell her to "pack her bags"

[susankh4]

91. Want my vote?

Hillary will be on the ticket.

If you think you can get Mr. Obama elected without a swing state Clinton supporter... have fun!

I will turn my attention toward down ticket offices.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ExPatLeftist]

182. Are you actually...

...trying to extort your way to having Hillary on the ticket?

...so immature that you will either play by your rules or go home and pout?

...so lacking in conviction that you do not really care if another neocon wins the GE since your candidate is out?

...a Clintonite and not a Democrat?


This is all very sad and speaks volumes about you.

Grow up and join us in taking back our country.

[ninja8590]

94. Why would they be here? Are the most Obama supporters here?

Why would Obama staffers be here? I knew we Obama supporters dominated the web but I didn't realize this was the biggest Obama site....I guess that makes sense....cool.

[ima_sinnic]

98. I'm sure some Obama staff make it a point to be very aware of the netroots

I mentioned DU in a phone call to Obama campaign headquarters and the guy said they would definitely check it out. I was calling to voice my very strong concern against Hillary as VP, and he said I must be the "billionth" caller with that concern, many people call every day about it, and he could almost totally guarantee a Hillary VP would NOT happen (though of course only Obama knows for sure, and he's keeping his cards close to his chest)--but this guy was very reassuring that it wouldn't be Clinton.

[Unbowed]

99. Amen.n/t

[Kitty Herder]

100. Totally Agree! nt

[MethuenProgressive]

101. You think pick-the-running-mate level BO staff reads/cares what is posted on DU?

:rofl:

[Phred42]

103. Agree Completely. Obama/Clinton's would be, at best, a 1 term nightmare

Ron Reagan nailed it yesterday when he said 'There can be only 1 president' and that "Hillary and Bill are A PACKAGE DEAL."
There is no way around it. After what these two have shown us in the past 6 months alone - there is NO Way Obama could trust these two THAT close to the Presidency.

In addition - once the Dems have a majority in both houses and the White HOuse, They MUST begin an Internal CLEANUP. THE DLC and BLUE DOGS must be cleared out of the party they are NOT Progressive Democrats - that are at best Moderate Republicans. This includes Bill and Hillery.
This country cannot survive any further CONSERVATIVE control of anything in our Government. We have to have PROGRESSIVES in control for several terms to even have a change at cleaning up the Mess that Conservative control has cause in the past 8 years alone - not to mention the past 30 years.

[Le Taz Hot]

104. There is no reason Obama needs to bring in Hillary

as his V.P. candidate. There's no advantage in it for him. Not only does Hillary bring in an enormous amount of negatives which will mobilize the right-wing nut jobs, Obama knows damned well that with Hillary comes the the Clinton Machine and the FOB which will likely undermine his administration.

Besides, Hillary supporters tend to be Yellow Dog Democrats so they'll ultimately vote for Obama despite their threats and gnashing of teeth. The opposite is not true.

Let her stamp her feet, pout and threaten all she wants, the longer she stays in the race (which she can't possibly legitimately win now), the more of a pariah within the party and within the nation she becomes.

[quickesst]

105. Obama supporter.....

...pretending Obama can win with half the Democratic voters, and the "millions" of republican who have, through Obama's visionary persuasion, become champions of the liberal agenda. Will they overcome their faux-rage, based on a naive, and flawed idealism? Or will they sacrifice the future for it? If the rhetoric at DU is any indication, they will do so with a smile on their face. When the "vision" they have created for themselves comes face to face with reality, they will of course, lay the blame at anyone's feet but their own. Obama, if the nominee, could win the GE, but saying "Fuck You", to half the people needed for that win, is, logically speaking, illogical. Pretty vengeful, and angry people for "winners". Just think how angry they'll be if Obama wins the GE. Thanks.
quickesst

[Grinchie]

187. If people don't vote for their candadte because other voters are mean

Thats the most self defeating message I ever heard.

What ever happend to Independent Thinking? Don't they teach that anymore?

I've done my research, just like everyone needs to do, to verify my choice in the most important election in my lifetime. It seems like others just listen to CNN to get their information, when the world is available at their fingertips. All you have to do is go online and learn how to use Google*

The people that threaten this are sheeple and deserve what they get. Vote for who you want, but just shut up.
Hillary carries way too much Taint to be even considered. You can verify this yourself by looking at such things as DLC, Rose Law Firm, Tyson Foods, WalMart, Peter Paul, Her Book. Too much! Go Away Hillary!


*Abilty to comfortably read and comprehend complex interdisciplinary topics required

[mpalluzzi]

106. Hillary I sorry you lost.

It is a shame that she cannot just step down because she
thinks this is owed to her, because of her husbands' issues
before he left office. Pay back is a bitch. Obama can win with
or without the racist democrats. You know who you are!!!!

[Darth_Kitten]

109. OOOO, another long-termer we lost.

Ah, shucks. I sorry she lost too. I sorry about everything.

[Darth_Kitten]

108. Pathetic.........

really pathetic.....you really think the sun rises and sets around your candidate, eh?

[Swamp Rat]

129. Ironic and bitter

:D

[Darth_Kitten]

131. Petulant and deluded.

n/t

[Swamp Rat]

132. BINGO!!!

[Darth_Kitten]

134. Head in the sand about your fellow Obama supporters' posts?

Sad.

[Swamp Rat]

138. Get your facts straight Canadian lady.

I am a Kucinich supporter. :)

[Darth_Kitten]

139. No, you be straight?

People are automatically supposed to know you are a Kucinich supporter? Geez.....

[Swamp Rat]

141. You never bothered to ask, before you began the accusations and ad hominem.

[Darth_Kitten]

195. Man, is somebody both skittish and touchy today?

awhhh. :(

[Swamp Rat]

197. Aww!! Why the long face?

:)

[ExPatLeftist]

188. Nope.

I for one don't think that the sun rises and sets with our candidate - but I do KNOW that the Democratic nomination ends with him. Sorry that's not what you wanted, but it is reality. The question is what you do next - act like an adult and a Democrat or continue posting as if sowing sour grapes produces wine.

[Clear Blue Sky]

110. Well said!

[Darth_Kitten]

116. Not really, it's more than a childish, petulant rant.

n/t

[Laura PourMeADrink]

121. Yep - Ranting all the way to the WH with someone I'd walk

10 miles in the snow to vote for - a feeling many, many of us have been
starving for for a very long time. Get onboard, it feels absolutely,
positively fantastic !!!!!!!!!!

[Darth_Kitten]

133. Well, at least you are a happy person......

:)

[Swamp Rat]

136. Yes, even though my candidate has lost, I remain happy.

:)

[Laura PourMeADrink]

167. I hope, with all my heart , that you find a new candidate.

[Swamp Rat]

196. That would be the Democratic nominee.

Which is why I remain happy. :)

[paulk]

119. I doubt any Obama staffers

are stupid enough to get their political advice from Democratic Underground.

If they are, I doubt Obama is stupid enough to take it...

[Laura PourMeADrink]

122. Sorry, that's just crazy talk! Spending time here at DU, I have

learned SO much and heard thousands of great ideas. So often, people here
know a zillion times more than the talking heads on tv. I truly think
that a candidate would be very well served to listen to the ideas here.

[cjsmom44]

137. RE: I Second that

I second that....

AMEN ...we must speak out, they have no obligation
to make Hillary a running mate....

[rucognizant]

140. Hillary is NOT a favorable VP candidate!

Edwards has said NO.............Gore has found his "groove" his destiny. It would be foolisj for him to divert to a diffeent direction, with a different skill set needed!
Bob Graham, former Sen from FLa. who ran for Pres. in 04. He voted AGAINST the Iraq war, was on the Foreign Intelligence committee and knows more than he has ever been able to say. He was ridiculed for carrying a pocket notebook, to keep track of things....Exactly what is needed to hel< Obama clean up this mess! Didn't Obama say his weakness was organizing the papers? BINGO! Dovetail! Isn't that what good partnerships are made of. Different talents working together making a whole?[br />Chris Dodd! He is the only candidate who said his first action in office would be to restore the constitution. ( save Richardson, Bidden, Kucinich for the important cabinet positions.)
Want a woman? WHat about Barbara Boxer, heroine of the orange roses.............SHe has said she wouldn't run for Pres. but might accept the VP slot, as it would help her push her environmental cause further.
Dean? I'd love to see that. Is he still too controversail in the eyes of the MSM?
Set aside your EMOTIONS, personal likes, & dislikes and view it as a chess game.

[PATRICK]

143. You don't have to guess at her

intentionality. No matter he intentions or efforts the MSM still defines her role and is the primary fixed intention group in this election. They want Hillary for the sake of the GOP. They want division, distraction and the old narratives. They would continue this well into the Obama White House. So far Hillary has shown no signs of really not playing their game either. That was when it was to her advantage. Well, what can she do except try to wilt into total inconsequence as a VP candidate and VP for real? At both ends she is, regardless of her will motives or efforts, a sum negative. No real need to talk of her personal responsibility in such fixed scenarios where Bill too is dragged in as a truculent anchor to progress and the president.

Edwards, who has not been all that personal or negative about Hillary(neither has Obama for that matter),
already tried to veer the VP possibility away from Hillary- as well as himself. So have others in trying to end this. There is little groundswell among the Dems, the leadership, for a welcome change in prudence, to affix the VP slot to the Hillary endgame or for any overt deal or negotiation. Obama does not need her people to win the nomination. There goes the major card for HAVING to offer the second spot.
Courtesy and valuation of her campaign and constituency has been too damaged to make a strong case. In fact, any such grace could as easily be interpreted as weakness and concession that the rivalry will be cemented on the ticket, into the WH and the difficult future.

One of the favors Hillary has done in fact is the graceless scorched earth continuation which in the past obliterates all combined ticket sweetness. She has made it possible, credible and even obligatory to bypass her completely- even toward avoiding inclusion of some of her loyalists in the cabinet.

The sole power, and considerable threat, is her magnificent bloc of delegates- suffering a little attrition at the moment. Making life difficult for the nominee and bargaining harshly with that menace is the sole worry- though not one necessarily shared by a good chunk of her delegates.

That is the crux and HRC is making the party sweat it out. Again, Obama should show the the strength of his leadership and not act of out any fear of any one person. This would be a great start well noted by the populace at large. It is a question too whether base abuse, as practiced by Bush and Democrats will be revealed and come to an end, where the particular aspirations and predictable weaknesses of any bloc
are simply manipulated by a private few against most public interests. The absolute sign, the proof of bloc abuse is in good people becoming the mirror of their leader's selfish manipulations and emotional narrowness. The signs are hatred, divisiveness and ultimate destruction and the loss of all goals.

[Grinchie]

189. The Biggest Mistake the Hillary Made

Was not to plan on a viable Democratic contender in the Primaries.

She planned soley on fighting the Republican's on their terms, scorched earth, blood and guts. She knew it was going to be mean and nasty, and Mark Penn knew how to fight dirty.

Then Obama came out of nowhere, and grabbed the long neglected Populist message of the Democratic party that Hillary and the DLC had pronunced dead and unelectable way back in 1992.

They didn't get the message that Americans have been almost literally driven off a cliff by the Republican party, of which the DLC appeased and mimicked for so long.

Once they did realize that they were threatened, instead of devising a message that would resonate with the Populist movement, (How could they? They were out of money) they forged ahead with the scorched earth, blood and guts campaign strategy they had devised for the Republicans.

This blunder made Hillary look like the people in the White House, ranting and raving like Limbaugh, and it all fell on a very hostile audience.

Obama would have lost if he played against her strategy, but he chose to take the Populist, non confrontational approach, and thats what WE THE PEOPLE want.

However, Hillary should just go away and realize that she made a terrible strategic error and just call it. This attempt at Salvaging her legacy is not working on the people she has succeeded to alienate, and groveling for more money at this point only drives home to fact that she is incompetent and incapable of turning on a dime. Kinda like Bush.

[butterfly77]

My thoughts exactly!

[Jakes Progress]

145. Lots of applause for this

from the republican Party.

Sure, go ahead Obama staff. Listen to the deluded. What you really want for your candidate is that he join the great and distinguished list of our glorious successes from the past. You want Obama to be in the history books as the name that follows Humphrey, McGovern, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry.......

Nothing wrong with any of those men either. Nothing wrong with Obama. What is wrong is that we keep saying we want change and we keep doing the same thing over and over. This impotent rage against members of our own party isn't new here. We've done it over and over. The "fight for the soul of the party" isn't new here. We've done that over and over. Turning our hatred from the enemies of the progressive movement onto ourselves isn't new here. We've done that over and over.

We know what doing the same thing over and over while expecting change is called.

True change for the Democratic party would be to actually embrace with actions some of the rhetoric of the Obama campaign. Reconciliation. Acceptance. Unity. Only we need to show those for each other rather than the neocons.

We've done everything else. You want change. Embrace unity. Otherwise all the talk of a new way is just hypocritical chanting for the same old, same old.

[jbm]

146. I agree...she shouldn't attach herself to a ship destined to become the Titanic..

2012 is not that far away, and an Obama association will damage her chances for the future.

[grytpype]

149. I bet any Obama staffer would agree with you 100%.

There's no way they're giving Hillary anything. Why should they? She's beaten. He doesn't need to do a deal with her.

[mirrera]

150. k&r

[Freida5]

151. I agree and you don't have to have the votes of her supporters either..

[NOLALady]

153. I agree with you.

Voters are free to vote in their best interests.

[rucky]

154. Speaking of VPs

nice avatar!

[Ytzak]

157. Let's keep our eye on the prize here...

If Obama thinks he needs Hillary to win he needs to do that. If Obama thinks somebody else will be his pet attack dog and rip the balls off McCain's running mate and McCain's polices, choose that person.

I am tired of Obama's army thinking their support gives them the god given right to make that decision, just as I tired of Hilliry's minions thinking that simply because she doesn't need to adjust her package before she talks gives she is owed this position. Obama is not the Chosen one riding in on his charger to save us all. Hillary is not the secret spawn of Cheney and the Devil determined rule the empire with Darth Cheney's son at her side.

There is too much at stake here to fight like 5 year olds in the school yard.

Its time to win and I will back whoever Obama, with the advise of his staffers, feels he needs to do that.

[acmavm]

160. This is a PERFECT example of a really ignorant post. This 'person' thinks

that her and her ilk can win this election all by themselves:

<snip>

We will all work our hearts out to offset any loss due
to disgruntled Hillary fans

<snip>

Let her and her kind try it. It CANNOT be done.

I hate both Hils and Obama so I'm already screwed. But I must admit, this thread is enough to make me decide at least what I will not do.

[Exultant Democracy]

162. There are no Obama staffers here trust me, they are busy as hell.

[Joshua N]

163. I have not posted in a while, but I have to speak on this...

Obama should pick the vice president who he thinks would be the best president besides himself, shares his vision, complements his skills and will be an ally, resource, and source of strength over a potentially long 8 years. If that is Hillary, then pick her. If it is someone else, then pick her or him.


To really turn the page, we must stop picking VP's through triangulation, who polls well, who is from a swing state, who is so different they are supposed to serve as a balance, but by who we think is the best pick. Please, no more Liebermans. No more capitulation for the sake of votes.

It's funny, Democrats cow and capitulate and poll rather than stand on principles, and Republicans do whatever they want without listening to anyone. But they are not the party of principles, we are, and if anyone should be willing to take stands on issues it should be us.

[Tarc]

165. O-Bots are jerks to the last. They can't even be gracious in near-victory

Just focusing on your "core" of supporters, i.e. fellow Obama fans, and saying fuck all to anyone who has a different opinion is pretty much a carbon copy of the Bush/Rove tactics of 2004. Appease the core righty wingnuts, kiss off the rest and hope to eke out a victory.

It barely worked then. It ain't going to work for you now. Smarten up and start talking to ex-Clinton supporters rather than pissing them off even more.

[Pawel K]

166. We'll talk in due time. Right now us Obama supporters are still a little pissed off

Obama won this thing back on Feb 5th, it is now May 17th and many Clinton supporters around here are still refusing to let go. Hillary "as far as I know he's not a muslim" Clinton did long term damage to our chances in November because of her inflated ego, her personal attacks, and her refusal to end this campaign earlier.

So you have to excuse us about the fact that we are a little bitter.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

170. Of course, I want you to get on board. And, I feel your pain - of

supporting someone you love and having them lose. But, time is running out. As great as many here think Hillary
is, she has lost - by every standard measurement. If it was up in the air, sure, everyone would be more
respectful. (Say March 6th). But, because no one can set forth a logical argument on how she can win (without
a supreme stumbling by Obama) then what are we supposed to think? It is very hard not to think she is just
being a spoiler. Can you understand that? If someone laid it out - if there was an iota of possibility - I
would say, stay in, fight it out. But there is not. And it's not just that we are Obama fans. It wouldn't
matter who it was - if you had a challenger who defied all custom, rule, and practice and refused to bow
out. And trust me, animosity will grow. The press is mocking her now. Is that what you want? Look, I
know, many, many love her. I respect that. But when, honestly, are you going to say, "good fight, we
didn't win?"

[knixphan]

169. K&R for great minds thinking alike :)

[Laura PourMeADrink]

172. and so do we ! haha that's what my friend says everytime I say what you said. nt

[knixphan]

171. Biden!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

174. good one! biden, clark, or richardson. I respect them all and they

all would add a tremendous amount of gravitas - legitimizes him in a very special way.
I just wonder if Biden is interested. He's not one to hide his feelings and he's not
throwing off any indication he'd like the job.

[Crunchy Frog]

173. That would truly fit the definition of appeasement. n/t

[happygoluckytoyou]

176. HILLARY SAYS OBAMA ISN'T QUALIFIED.... DON'T LET HER STAND BEHIND YOU

ET TU HILLARY!!!

[gbrenna]

177. Hill as running mate

She would be the best thing to happen to Obama. er expertise is amazing. She is smarter and has a better chance in November. Obama should drop out for the good of the party.

[muryan]

180. The campaign doesn't feel we HAVE to include her

but the general consensus around here is that she would be an incredible asset.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

183. Are you on his campaign? Welcome

[Beacool]

185. Whatever...........

No Hillary on the ticket, no Obama in November as far as I'm concerned.

PS: A replacement female, such as Sibelius, won't do. Women are NOT interchangeable!!!!!!!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

193. You whatever. I guess your sour grapes want McPain.

[mistertrickster]

194. When she said that McCain had experience to be Pres but Obama didn't . . . she crossed the line. nt

[Beacool]

198. And she lied how?

As much as I have no use for McCain, he has many years more experience than Obama.

[mistertrickster]

211. She didn't say McCain had more experience -- she said he had THE EXPERIENCE

to be president and Obama didn't.

F*** her forever.

[cboy4]

201. Ughhh....what a terrible avatar,

[uponit7771]

204. Richardson is the best!

[QC]

207. If Obama and his people are hanging out here, I suspect that they

are mortified by the hateful, childish antics of many of the people here who claim to be Obama supporters and would prefer that they gave it a rest, instead of alienating people whose support is needed in November.

[knixphan]

208. you want change,

embrace the MIDDLE CLASS.

THAT is unity.

[apocalypsehow]

209. Agree 100% - excellent OP>

:thumbsup:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

210. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

Oh that's gotta be the best example of inflated ego I've ever seen!!!!!!!

Yeah, they're gonna be soooooooo interested to hear what some online zealot has to say. Why, why, it could TOTALLYYYYYYY change the whole landscape of our ticket!!!

My god that ego shit's gotta be some of the funniest shit I've seen today!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: