Question for those ranting about MI and FL not being counted....

[TLM]

Can you link to any rants you posted about this subject when it took place.... or even before super tuesday?

When hillary was sure she'd won by front loading the election, where were your rants about how wrong it was not to count the states that moved up their primaries.

When hill said those states wouldn't count where were your rants against her?

Can you link to even one post ranting about MI and FL before it was apparent Hillary was losing the race for the nomination?

[Diane R]

1. I'd like to see a link to a complaint about caucuses before she started losing, too.

[TLM]

4. how about just the earliest post?

What was the earliest post ranting about MI and FL not being counted.... when was the first rant posted on this subject?


I bet it was well after super Tuesday....

[ecdab]

17. The postings here on the topic started right after Hillary started sending out mass emails

about it - before that it was a very minor topic.

[Johnny Battleground]

13. They have been disenfranchised

The party has punished the electorate.
They wanted their votes to count, and they do not. No fault of their own.
Pure and simple.
In a tight election Dean's mistake looks catastrophic.

Does not matter how the cake is cut... these voters have been disenfranchised. Period.
For a party that wanted all votes counted in 2000, we look a little stupid cutting out all voters from 2 KEY STATES.

Any idea what that will cost us in November?

Super Delegates Vote Hillary.
AND DUMP HOWARD DEAN.

[quantass]

18. And you dont see the contradiction of Hillary's logic of disenfranchising Caucus goers in her silly

math? Something tells me you are picking and choosing what you are in favor of...like hillary which says you couldnt care less about voters. just saying

[Johnny Battleground]

28. They weren't disenfranchised in NV.

[TLM]

36. And what of the 4 or 5 other caucus states she wants not to count?

[hokies4ever]

23. FL and MI will be seated

Dean is just punishing the legislators of those states by keeping the media focus on them. Stop beating a dead horse.

[Johnny Battleground]

27. Bottom Line: The voters get F'ed.

Period.

.

[hokies4ever]

29. No, because their delegations WILL be seated

not sure what you don't understand.

[TLM]

35. Repeat the talking point all you want..... won;t make it true.

[TLM]

34. Repeating the current talking point, is no answer Kevin James...

Where it the link to any rant about this subject prior to super tuesday?

I mean i have the most strident and hateful hillary followers on ignore, so perhaps they all posted links and I can;t see this massive influx of proof that they've been ranting about this from day one.

"In a tight election Dean's mistake looks catastrophic."

Only to hillary.


BTW do you comprehend the legal difference between a state party nomination and a federal presidential election?


You keep trying to compare to the election of 2000, which shows you, like Kevin James, have no clue what you're talking about. You're just repeating the talking points.

[Johnny Battleground]

44. open your mind... take everyone off ignore

Repeating talking points?
Will the FL and MI voters votes count?
Really count?

If not... = disenfranchised voters.
Period.

Super Delegates Vote Hillary.

I'll add this... what a retarded system our party has.
We set out and have state elections... caucuses or otherwise I don't really care... but then we have hundreds of Super Delegates that can overturn the votes of the people?
That combined with the FL & MI debacle in a tight race... what timing for it all to hit the fan.


You're obviously there for a reason... to ensure unvetted candidates who make it deep into the race... like the Prince of Weakness don't hand an election to the opposition... so...

...Super Delegates Vote Hillary.

[Honeycombe8]

42. She threatened to sue over NV caucuses in Vegas, until she won them. ....

Just helping you out in your quest.

See, I think we've ALL noticed that same thing about the Clinton campaign.

[shadowknows69]

2. Crickets chirping

[TLM]

6. maybe hillary followers are busy reposting that ad for hillary for the 20th time?

Or perhaps they are searching through all the rants they posted on the subject prior to super Tuesday to find one that's best?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. A link to popular vote and swing states being the arbiter would be nice, too.

:)

[TLM]

5. Didn't oberman do a timeline of metrics?

That was for the campaign.... I wonder how well the change in metrics by hillary, and the change in rants by hillary followers on DU match up?

[NanceGreggs]

7. Wow! Colour me surprised!

Came back to check on this tread, expecting that by now it would be full of replies, complete with links!


Where are all of the Hillary campers? :shrug:

[DerekJ]

8. It is full of replies, and links, you just don't see them. Not good with secret ink, are you?

[NanceGreggs]

9. Ahhhhh ...

Nobody ever lets me in on the good stuff.

[MonkeyFunk]

10. Here's a thread from January

where I argued for seating them

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4229872#4229888


But the fact is, it wasn't an issue until it appeared that those states might be important in deciding the results.

[DerekJ]

14. Ahem..it looks like this thread was after Hillary tried to make an issue out of them, not before.

[MonkeyFunk]

15. The OP asked if there was one from before Feb. 5th

:shrug:

[tekisui]

19. And, now we see that they won't change the outcome.

They will make a decision on May 31st, and this will be put to rest. Unless Hillary sues, but I don't see that happening, she would gain nothing.

[MonkeyFunk]

25. Maybe

we'll see if the DNC wants to risk losing in November in order to defend Iowa's primacy in the process. I think it's a stupid tradeoff myself.

[sandnsea]

38. No, until Hillary LOST

IA, NV and SC - and tied NH - it wasn't an issue.

[PassingFair]

39. I was VERY angry about my state party and my representatives...

*ucking with the party rules...

Not that it did me any good.

[ruby slippers]

11. the state was gerrymandered where I live before the election anyway....

and Hillary was here for a fundraiser while Obama stayed out of the state. No one here thought the votes would count anyway. The only reason they all came out to vote was for the extra homestead exemption.....that was the real target on the ballot.

[Occam Bandage]

12. Though it's been said, I'd like to see *anyone* complaining about the caucus system before HRC lost.

[dorkulon]

16. FL is one thing, but MI would be crazy.

That's a one-person election. Saddam Hussein used to have those.

[quantass]

21. And whats sad is including FL as is punishes Obama for FOLLOWING the rules...which isnt fair

...why should Obama be punished for the silly happenings of state leaders and DNC rightfully punishing them, after warnings in advance.

The DNC knows this and they will not punish Obama....they will find ground on total fairness on both sides...Obama is the one in the drivers seat since there is no chance Hillary will get MI and FL seated as is....no chance. And i dont know why Hillary is so pasionate about it since this will not give her the popular vote still (but i gather she is incorporating Peurto Rico -- which is silly since PR doesnt vote in GE and thus Popular Vote is even more worthless).

[5thGenDemocrat]

24. Well, not exactly

I live in Saginaw, Michigan and I voted for Dennis Kucinich, who WAS on the ballot along with Chris Dodd and, of course, Clinton. Kucinich wound up getting three or four percent of the Michigan total -- not enough to earn any delegates but, still, I don't feel like I was disenfranchised as I got to vote for exactly who I wanted to.
John
On the other hand, if I'd been an Obama supporter I'd be pissed off about this whole situation.

[dorkulon]

26. True, and I think Gravel might have been on there too.

Still, with the current situation being what it is, the results are meaningless in terms of selecting a nominee.

[5thGenDemocrat]

31. Yes, he was and yes, they are

I just posted what I said to note that not every non-Hillary supporter in Michigan got jacked. My candidate only polled four percent, true -- but I DID get to vote for whom I wanted.
John
And, honestly, I don't much care what happens vis-a-vis the Michigan delegates. None of them will represent Kucinich, so it's a wash to me. Split 'em, seat 'em, don't seat 'em, whatever.

[tekisui]

20. I want to see the link for when HILLARY was defending seating the delegates

when it happened.

[noel711]

22. Is it just me, or are many of these so-called Hillary supporters...

DU posters with very few postings...?

Like they just joined or something?

And they show up with bizarro statements, and then flame away?

But then, I'm not here all the time myself..

just sayin'.....

[TLM]

40. trying to get around ignore lists.... I'd bet.

Hill sends out the call for blog rolling, and ta da hillbots show up posting all the same talking points.

But frankly I'm surprised there are so few.

She must really be hurting, if this is the best she can muster up.

[DerekJ]

30. kick ..

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Maribelle]

33. Before super tuesday ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4269075

[PassingFair]

37. You can visit the Michigan forum and see ME ranting...

against my state party!

:hi:

Edit to include link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=159&topic_id=11327&mesg_id=11327

[Vinca]

41. I remember when the DNC ruling came down. I was totally pissed

about it since I live in New Hampshire and predicted, rightly, it would end up disenfranchising voters and create a giant mess. The majority of posters either ignored me or pooh poohed what I said, figuring I was just a crazy, New Hampshire voter. Very few people were against the DNC ruling that was signed by the candidates . . . including Hillary. It was supposed to put Iowa and New Hampshire "in their places" after all. How times have changed. Not only has Hillary gotten amnesia over the document she signed, so have her supporters.

[PassingFair]

43. In Michigan, the party said that because we voted so far down in the schedule...

we had "nothing to lose" by breaking the rules
and having our delegates stripped.

Another thread from before January...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=159&topic_id=11195&mesg_id=11195