Lanny Davis on the Ed Schultz Show: Hillary betrayed by Obama defectors. My thoughts...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

During Bill Clinton's impeachment ordeal, Lanny Davis was there. In fact, throughout the '90s, Davis was the Clintons' chief legal counsel and has been a loyal friend and very close confidant for at least 25 years.

So if one wanted to produce a list of people who could bring quality, unbiased insight into the minds of Hillary and Bill Clinton, that list would include James Carville, Paul Begalia, David Gergen and Terry McAuliffe. But Lanny Davis is your best bet and should appear at the very top of that list.

That is why I am very upset with Lanny's words when he appeared as a guest on the Ed Schultz Radio Talk Show the other day.

He tells Ed that Hillary is so depressed because she feels betrayed by Obama supporters, particularly her colleagues in the Senate for whom she has known for many years; the superdelegates like Jim Andrew (former DNC Chair) and George McGovern (former presidential candidate), and others that she felt should have been loyal to her rather than defect to Barack Obama's camp.

Understandably, she was upset at Obama and Edwards for not allowing her to enjoy a day basking in the glory of her WV win before trotting out John Edwards in MI for an endorsement. I do understand her gripe there. I thought that it was a little tacky for the Obama team to do this, but I guess that it became tiresome for them (and for many of us who found her comments quite detestable), listening to her and the media repeat ad nauseam that Obama can't win "hard-working white" voters.

Further, Lanny tells Ed that she was disappointed by what she called "the arrogance of the Obama camp" because they are planning to declare victory on May 20 before all the primaries are finished and before the Credentials Team meets on May 31. On this point I agree with the Hillary camp wholeheartedly. I hope the Obama camp will rethink this strategy because it would do more damage than good and will anger Hillary supporters. Let the voting continue until it is completed before declaring any kind of victory. I believe that he has the nomination wrapped up, but the more he throws it in her face, the more despicable her behavior becomes.

But the aspect of the Lanny discussion that has disturbed me the most--and I have been thinking about this now for two days--is that he told Ed that Bill and Hillary have worked tirelessly their entire lives on behalf of civil rights and racial justice. Lanny stated that civil rights is one of the issues that is "nearest and dearest" to her heart, therefore the "betrayal of African Americans" was most hurtful. Lanny kept using the words "hurtful" and "betrayal".

Why do Lanny's words disturb me? Because it speaks to the larger issue about who Hillary and Bill Clinton are. The Clintons really believe that nothing else matters besides loyalty. They seem to believe that they are entitled to the presidency. Judging based on Lanny's account of Hillary's state of mind, the concept of loyalty is much more important than doing what one believes. It so reminds me of how the Bush administration operates: rewarding loyal friends, punishing others who fall out of line even when doing so is the right thing to do.

When Hillary Clinton announced that she was running for the presidency, she enjoyed nearly 80% of black support. When Kucinich, Edwards, Dodd, Biden and others announced, that support declined to about 60% or thereabouts, mainly because Edwards is also very popular in the black community. (I became a supporter when Dennis dropped out, and Martin Luther King, III praised Edwards' Poverty Initiative.)

Despite the fallacy that African Americans supported Obama from the beginning, the media, Clinton supporters and their surrogates, and the Clintons themselves, continue to repeat that falsehood.

The unvarnished truth is that many blacks were distrustful of Obama and didn't believe that he should run for office. Black women especially were concerned for his safety. But many of us also believed that he didn't have enough experience. Perhaps he should finish out his term in the Senate and wait until 2012 to run. Additionally, there was a question of whether or not Obama could relate to the African American experience, since he spent a good portion of his life outside this country. I remember that even Jesse Jackson was highly skeptical. The ultimate irony is that he was squarely in Hillary's camp until his own son, Jesse Jackson, Jr., convinced his father that Obama was "an o.k. guy." Cornel West and other prominent African American scholars questioned Obama's integrity.

It is highly offensive when White America assumes that blacks simply fall in line without any critical thought. There was much critical analysis going on prior to the SC primary. If anyone listened to black talk radio, there was some serious analysis going on. Support for the Clintons all but fell apart the closer we got to the SC primary and Obama started doing well...

The Clintons damaged any good will left from the black community when both Bill and Hillary--aided by the media and their surrogates, black and white--started making veiled references to race and using subtle, racially coded language to drive a wedge within the Democratic party.

Note: please do not attempt to argue with me about who started what first and when. Bottom line is that the Clintons and their friends have been playing the race card since the beginning of this primary as Obama continued to gain prominence and started winning primaries and caucuses.

My point is that it is blacks who feel betrayed by the Clintons, not the other way around. Like any other candidate, one has to earn voters' trust and support. It's not just about loyalty. The Clintons have specialized in the Art of Projection, accusing their opponents of doing exactly what they are doing, then feigning outrage at the reaction of their opponents who are disappointed and frustrated by their actions.

The bottom line is that whatever you feel about Obama supporters, it is the Clintons who must make amends to the black community for their despicable behavior throughout this campaign for the Bob Johnsons and the Geraldine Ferraros. For the Ed Rendells and the "hard-working white" folk. For subtly downgrading the civil rights impact of MLK, Jr., a man who they say they admire greatly. For suggesting that Obama is not a Muslim...as far as she knows.

It is the Clintons who owe blacks the biggest apology if they are really sincere about wanting to bridge the divide and move forward. It behooves Hillary and her husband to want to work to bring healing to the party. I believe that Obama supporters will be forgiving and will apologize, too, for their behavior. But the politics of division always fails and will destroy this party, despite what Lanny Davis says!

I am confident that the Democrats will come together in the fall no matter what but, it would be nice if the healing started now rather than later and Obama needs to do his part too and not rub his victory in the faces of the Clintons and their loyal supporters.

Let's work together to heal this party after the appropriate amends are rendered. Then, let's join forces and go after the real enemies: Dumbya and the Repukes, Grandpa McCain, and the M$M!

[myrna minx]

1. This is a beautifully written post.

Thank you. K&R

[WillyToad]

22. Basically a hit piece...

If Obama supporters want to, "work together to heal this party," they have to stop the smear campaign.

If Obama supporters cannot turn off the hatred, the Democratic party is toast.

[roguevalley]

28. Oh for godsakes. get real. this piece sums it up. smear campaign?

yeah. right.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

35. Can you be more specific about the smear campaign?

I would like specifics, please...

[Teaser]

40. If HRC supporters want to, "work together to heal this party," they have to stop the smear campaig

If HRC supporters cannot turn off the hatred, the Democratic party is toast.

[K Gardner]

2. This is excellent. Thank you.. K&R.

[cali]

3. wonderful, beautifully expressed post.

While I may not agree with every point, you get an enthusiastic rec from me.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

18. Thanks! I'm curious...

Can you elaborate on the points with which you disagree? I like this discussion...

[Genevieve]

4. Thank you for this....nt

[mamalone]

27. Totally off topic here...

But your sig line is hilarious:rofl:


who said it?

[Genevieve]

36. Guess who:

Her Foreign Policy Speech:

"I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."

And, being confronted about statement (which she stated 4 separate times, and so did Chelsea) at an Editorial Meeting:

"Now let me tell you what I can remember, OK -- because what I was told was that we had to land a certain way and move quickly because of the threat of sniper fire. So I misspoke -- I didn't say that in my book or other times but if I said something that made it seem as though there was actual fire -- that's not what I was told."

Bill's response was the best though:
She's 60 years old, she was tired, it was 11 o'clock at night. ... she thought she was under attack by snipers in Bosnia.

[mamalone]

5. Good post...

I agree with you on many fronts. Interestingly enough, I had lunch the other day with a black woman and (as is usually the case with me these days. lol) talk turned to the Dem primary. She was not overtly supporting either candidate even at this late point. She felt that both Obama and Clinton had such similar policy positions that nothing there would ever induce her to preference. When I said that I thought that Obama was the kind of leader who comes along rarely... maybe once in a generation or less.. she disagreed. She felt that "there are many other men who look like him, who have never even been given a chance because of their race." When I brought up his ability to rally and inspire, she said that she felt his skills there were nothing out of the ordinary, in that they were very similar to the preaching style found in AA churches. Her grandfather had been a preacher and she said Obama sounded like him:) It was a great discussion and we both were so energized by it. I think I might have been able to bring her over to the Obama camp and that was very thrilling to me.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that I am seeing AA folk actually holding back from wholehearted support of Obama because of issues regarding his race. Just because people acknowledge race is a factor in their decision-making process, doesn't mean that things are always going to fall out as we think they will.


edited for clarity

[Diamonique]

12. I agree with your frient to a point, but...

Quoting your post:

"When I said that I thought that Obama was the kind of leader who comes along rarely... maybe once in a generation or less.. she disagreed. She felt that "there are many other men who look like him, who have never even been given a chance because of their race."


I think she missed the point you were making. As a black woman I agree with her that there are many other black men who have some/many of his skills but haven't been given the chance. I understand what she was saying. But you weren't talking about "black men". You specifically said "leader". And that's a horse of another color. I'm assuming you were talking about a political leader. And if my assumption is correct, then she missed your point. You're correct that this kind of (political) leader comes along rarely... no matter his race.

Just my humble opinion.

Interesting discussion. I'm sure she'll come around. She sure ain't gonna vote for McCain. :-)

[mamalone]

19. She did miss my point....

But I clarified it:)

The coolest thing about this discussion was that we were able to absolutely move beyond the issue of race and focus on the qualities of Obama himself. I brought up the point that although their policy positions are similar, Clinton does not possess the skills to convert her policies into reality. Obama has those skills in abundance. Anybody of intelligence can come up with great ideas of how to make the world better, but moving beyond ideology and into action and reality is the mark of a gifted leader. That's the thing about this man... he is so much more than his policy positions.

Another interesting part of the discussion was her statements about Clinton. She said that she agreed with her on many points, she loved the Clinton presidency, she liked the idea of a woman pres... but that Clinton's behavior during this campaign had done something to her personally that she couldn't describe. Waving her hand in front of her face, she said, "There's something there now I can't get past. She talks but I can't absorb anything she is saying."
"Kind of like a wall?" I said.
"Yeah," she said looking away,"kind of like a wall..."

Betrayal goes both ways, Lanny...




edited for clarity

[Diamonique]

77. I'm glad you were able to clarify...

Yeah, there is definitely a wall. Like you said.. betrayal goes both ways.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

17. I am seeing AA folk actually holding back from wholehearted support of Obama...

I believe this is true. I am originally from Atlanta and when I went home for a visit during Easter, I found that my family is divided, not even along generational lines, between Hillary and Obama. I have a huge family and if I could get a Hillary supporter who is convinced that blacks are only supporting Obama because of his race to be a fly on the wall during our heated political debates, they'd be shocked. Not all of us think alike and people will find that when politics is being discussed, many of us do speak intelligently on policy issues. This was true even in the beginning: blacks being highly distrustful of government and very skeptical of Obama's chances. I often wonder if the black vote for Obama was really a veiled reactionary vote *against* Hillary and not necessarily for him when she, her husband, and their supporters began their crusade to turn Barack Obama into "The Scary Black Guy". I had issues with Obama in the beginning as well, much of it because of how he presented himself and how the media presented him. Whenever the M$M fawns over a candidate, my antlers go up. Many blacks don't necessarily trust him because we don't believe that he can bring about the change that he represents, but many of us feel that he provides a refreshing alternative to Bush-Clinton. I think that's changing now as we learn more about his policy substance. I really had to do research on his records in both the IL Senate and the U.S. Senate. I like his progressivism on gun control, abortion rights and his impressive knowledge of the Constitution. I like what he did in the U.S. Senate, working with Lugar on the nonproliferation bill and the ethics reform bill. I was duly impressed with his performance during the Petraeus hearing. When I traveled to Harrisburg to hear him speak, I noticed how his eyes lit up when he started speaking on substantive policy issues. The fact that he had to spend so much time on the defense due to Rev. Wright and bitter-gate, is a shame because when he does speak confidentially about policy (despite poor debate performances) he does well.

[mamalone]

23. Yes.......

You stated:
I often wonder if the black vote for Obama was really a veiled reactionary vote *against* Hillary and not necessarily for him when she, her husband, and their supporters began their crusade to turn Barack Obama into "The Scary Black Guy".

I think you've hit on a truth here. The Clinton campaign apparently thought that framing race this way would draw people away from Obama, but in fact it has had the opposite effect. When we see this we are driven...forced away from her candidacy. We have no choice... it is unthinkable to support someone who uses race in this way.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

34. Hence, a possible reason why over 90% are now supporting Obama...

I think the Clintons' behavior may have pushed many blacks over the edge to Obama. And I'm not necessarily suggesting that there aren't blacks who are voting based on race--just as there are white women supporting Hillary simply because she's a woman. What I am suggesting is that the politics of division set the trend in motion when Hillary could have received a large percentage of the black vote without resorting to divisive tactics.

Additionally, I didn't mean to imply that Obama is the best thing since sliced bread or that he hasn't made mistakes which may have turned Hillary supporters off. But I am arguing that when people are merely *reacting* against her behavior, there needs to be some acknowledgement and understanding from Hillary supporters, and I don't see that. And then they turn around and accuse Obama supporters of being evil and divisive when they haven't even conceded the same on both sides.

The Hillary supporters have given us every reason for why we should not vote for Obama, but they haven't given any compelling reason for why we ought to vote for her instead, other than talking points and fallacies that can easily be debunked in two seconds.

[butterfly77]

24. Thank you ...

you stated it correctly, I have had many arguments with family members because I no longer support Hillary but now some are coming around as they have begun to see her lies, and they feel betrayed and used by her and Bill...

[Kber]

42. My mother voted for Hillary in the NY primary

and is feeling a little "betrayed" by her more recent actions.

[Number23]

52. Me too!

I am originally from Atlanta

What high school did you go to?? I am a proud Frederick Douglass High alum!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

64. Outside of Atlanta...in Downtown Decatur...

DECATUR HIGH SCHOOL...then on to Emory University for college...

[Kixel]

71. Thank you for this addition to a great post

Everyone has different opinions. Political discussions in my family are often diverse. The fact that black people are in one mind and share all beliefs is a horrible assessment by anyone. The implication that black voters are unable to distinguish between the qualities they want in a leader and are completely driven by color is insane. It also indicates that they are unable to distinguish between character, issues, and policy of candidates (i.e. white women can see more than just a white woman running for President, but the blacks only see the color of Obama's skin).

Obama has earned his support from everyone. To indicate anything other belittles the judgment of all people. It bothers me that it would be thrust on black voters.

[Diamonique]

6. You stated perfectly everything I've been thinking and feeling. n/t

k&r

[Kaylee]

7. Perfectly stated.

I feel horribly betrayed by the Clintons. For them to pull the race tactics they did, after we as African Americans loyally stood by them through all their trials and tribulations really hurts.

[goclark]

54. Amen to feeling betrayed

It is like they were so dearly loved, like family.

And now we are watching our "family members" turn on us day after day and encourage others to turn on us.

Sometimes I almost want to scream ~ "Where are you Monica?!"

Come out and tell us what really happened. We would probably believe you now.

[Tim4319]

8. Well said!

Also, when Bill was going through his Monica issue, it was black America that stood behind him!

[TexasObserver]

9. Agree that it is the Clintons who owe the black community the apology.

And I am so sick of their one way loyalty, sick of their attitude that they are the ones doing for others, instead of the reverse. They have gotten the better of every relationship they have had in politics. It's all taking from the Clintons, and little giving.

[Frustratedlady]

10. Kudos to you!

I hope Hillary and Bill receive a copy of this piece. Beautifully written.

[flpoljunkie]

11. Obama spent 4 years as a child living in Indonesia. That is not a "good portion of this life."

"Additionally, there was a question of whether or not Obama could relate to the African American experience, since he spent a good portion of his life outside this country."

After the way Bill and Hillary have been talking these days, I am in full agreement that he declare himself the nominee on May 20th, if has reached the threshold of 2026 delegates.

The Hillary camp attempting to create the new "magic number" of 2210 delegates for the nomination is bullsh*t and divisive. They need to do the right thing and unite behind our presumptive nominee--sooner, rather than later.

[Major Hogwash]

60. But, yet it is longer than Hillary spent in Bosnia "ducking sniper fire".

And it was proven that Obama lived outside of this country as a child.
Yet, there is no proof that Bubba "was against this war from the start."

[Dawgs]

13. I recommended your post, but you are wrong on a few of your points.

But, good post. I agree with a lot of it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

20. Can you tell me which ones?

I want to get the story correct. Thanks!

[pokercat999]

82. One I would like to point out is calling Lanny Davis

"unbiased". I can't think of anyone I would call MORE BIASED in favor of anything the Clinton's do. Lanny hitched his wagon to their star 25 years ago and isn't about to say ANYTHING bad about them. He is in denial as bad as, or worse, than Hillary.

Lanny Davis has been a spin machine for the Clinton's for a long time.....that may be his actual job.

Maybe instead of saying "unbiased" you should have written "admittedly biased in favor of the Clintons, but no one knows more about......"

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

86. Point well taken...

Probably more of a typo than a lapse in intellectual judgement. You're absolutely right!

[democracy1st]

72. yes I'd like to hear from you also thanks

[dansolo]

14. She's upset about the Edwards announcement???

Isn't she the one who keeps going on about how tough politics are, and that "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"? The extent of her hypocrisy is astounding. The timing of the Edwards endorsement was politically brilliant. She's just pissed because supposedly she and Bill had the reputation of being political masterminds, but apparently it was all done through smoke and mirrors (and most assuredly through back room deals and threats). Strategically, Obama has been running circles around them, and hasn';t had to rely on the tactics that got the Clintons to where they are now.

[blm]

15. When Edwards made his formal announcement in 2003, TeamClinton stole his coverage by

dangling Wes Clark.

Stalking horse.

[SoCalDem]

70. Bill said it best.. Don't put on the pads unless you plan to play hard and get knocked around

They cannot have it both ways..

[bluebellbaby]

16. They did it????

"started making veiled references to race and using subtle, racially coded language to drive a wedge within the Democratic party."

I protest this claim..."racially coded language"...what about Obama when he would mention Hillary and the "scratch his face with his middle finger"...who did what here???


Insulting analysis...the media did this not the Clintons...

[ErinBerin84]

25. I'm unclear about part of your post

You 're not actually legitimizing the claim that Obama took a "swipe" at Clinton by "scratching his face with his middle finger", are you? I haven't had my coffee yet, so perhaps my reading comprehension is not up to speed yet.

[bluebellbaby]

44. Yes...he did it on 3 seperate occasions...and the media only

mentioned it once...

[mamalone]

49. Please....

The claim that he gave her the middle finger is absurd. Why on earth would he do something so puerile?

[bluebellbaby]

53. I'll find a link for you...but why...you would have to ask Obama...?

[mamalone]

67. oh.my.

sigh..............

I do remember this dust-up, and as the other responders to your links have stated it was found to be nothing. Besides the fact that the evidence (pictures from other angles, etc) disprove these accusations, the very idea is absurd on its face. Obama has gone to great ends to refrain from personal insults to Hillary and to appear above the fray. If he did decide to throw all that away, the man certainly has sufficient interpersonal and political skills to insult her in a more effective way that "slyly" giving her the finger. Honestly, that's the kind of thing that a jr high boy might do to a despised teacher. Stooping to that kind of behavior wouldn't bring him anything but ridicule and disrespect. Even if, as I believe, it were not beneath his character, he's just plain too smart to do something this idiotic.

Seriously, if you dislike the guy this much, surely there is something more substantive that you can find to criticize him about! This kind of attack only serves to increase support for his candidacy, not decrease it.

[bluebellbaby]

56. Here's a few links...you decide...

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/04/17/is-obama-giving-hillary-the-finger-here/

[canucksawbones]

58. nice source

using stop the aclu as a source certainly doesn't make a convincing argument. They are beneath contempt and will use the worst sort of underhanded tactics to make a story from nothing.

GK

[blondie58]

76. yeah, I certainly agree! stop the aclu? they are about protecting

the Constitution. Are you sure you're not on the wrong web site, BB?

[Abacus]

63. Firstly, "STOP the ACLU"?!

Secondly, your own source discredits your position.

Update: Its pretty clear from the angle of this other video that two fingers were used. I’m pretty sure he was only scratching.

[mamalone]

68. Thank you!

[SeattleGirl]

62. Good grief, that again?

There were several pictures of the same events taken from different angles, and he most definitely was NOT flipping Clinton off.

Ignoring the truth is damned near as bad as blatantly lying.

[mamalone]

69. Agreed!

[uberblonde]

21. Politics is about relationships.

Now Obama wants to make sure all money flows through HIM by choking off progressive organizations who might have the audacity to support a candidate who's not 100% loyal to him.

Boy, are you people naive.

[atufal1c]

26. I agree with many of your points.

The point about Obama not having overwhelming support at the beginning dovetails nicely with a thread I responded to yesterday where someone said they were disturbed to hear black people on black radio question whether America would elect a black President.

I hope this isn't a violation of some protocol:

"I live in Chicago and I've told people before that I think a lot of black leaders did not take Obama seriously before Iowa. They liked what he had to say, but they dismissed him as throwing your vote away.

And after 8 years of Bushie/Republican bullshit, black people were as determined as everyone else to put a Democrat in the White House, so this was no time to take any chances. It wasn't until Obama won primaries in several states with large white populations that black people began to believe.

By that point, many of them had been committed to HRC for months. I know I was. And many black superdelegates were, too.

Witness the civil rights leader, John Lewis, a SD, switching to Obama. He talked about how he agonized over the decision. He knows that the Clintons have been very good for black people. I'm sure he shakes his head, as I do, when I hear people say otherwise. And he knows HRC would make a fine President. But in the end, he admitted, with some wonder, "Something's happening."

What's happening is that a combination of America's changing demographics, disgust with Republican policies, and, most importantly, it's changing attitudes, had made what seemed difficult if not impossible, suddenly seem within reach.

People are still adjusting to it.

And this isn't any old candidate. It's not an attempt to break through some barrier so that one day we can get a "good" black president. It's not a candidate that excites black people, but leaves other people cold. The ENTIRE Democratic party is excited about Obama.

It takes a little getting used to.

Having said that, WVON is what old black people listen to! And old black people are like old white people--they're set in their ways. And they've seen their hopes and dreams dashed far too many times to fall for something preposterous as the idea that white people would ALLOW there to be a black president.

Are you surprised? 40 years ago a black man couldn't drink from the same water fountain as a white man. Black people were openly attacked by whites in the streets with the SUPPORT of the police.

Some of those blacks are still alive. And they like WVON! LOL!

Some of those white are still alive, too.

I wouldn't expect either group to have a whole lot of faith in the process."

[eridani]

74. Geez! When I worked summers at the downtown Chicago post office--

--in 1965, WVON was quite the cutting edge station among my black Chicago agemates. It was a real eyeopener to us downstate white kids, and it got more than a few of us wondering how come you could never hear anything like that in Springfield or Decatur. And now all those kids are old people, as am I. Tempus fugit and all that, I suppose.

[atufal1c]

29. Do you believe the Clinton's think Obama is electable?

Part of me wonders if the Clinton's aren't frustrated because they believe Obama will lose. I would have told you he probably couldn't win the GE as recently as a few months ago.

If the Clinton's think they were dumped by black people for a black candidate that can't win, it would exacerbate things.

They are clearly hurt.

[NOLALady]

30. Do you believe HRC is electable?

Do you believe she could win the GE?

Maybe the Clinton's are hurt. But, many blacks also feel hurt and betrayed by the Clintons.

[eridani]

75. I personally don't see how you beat Repubs campaigning with sound bites

--that all say "Repubs are right about everything, and we are wrong."

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

39. I don't think they feel that Obama is unelectable...

I think they are making him appear more unelectable by using these arguments, all relating to race: he can't win the blue-collar white vote, etc. I think that they know exactly what they are doing and now they have the media and their surrogates repeating their talking points 24/7. The latest outrage is that they are attempting to force Obama's hand and make him offer Hillary the VP. Again, the sense of entitlement is baffling. They are presenting their case as if she is owed the VP spot and bolstering that claim by arguing that Obama can't win WV or all the other states that she has one because of the "white vote". It's very troubling and quite disgusting. The fact that her supporters choose to ignore this behavior is disturbing. Cognitive dissonance, willful ignorance or blind loyalty?

[grantcart]

31. For the Clinton's Loyalty is a one way street

you laid it out perfectly

[Doityourself]

32. I see nothing wrogn with Obama trotting out Edwards the day after WV..she'd do the same

[DU GrovelBot]

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[union_maid]

37. The Clintons are hurt, but they're not being realistic

I'm exactly in Hillary Clinton's demographic - white, female and 58. I was never enthusiastic about her run for president, but not because I disliked her. I had serious reservations about her electibility. Still do. I don't think I ever had a clear first choice. Of the early frontrunners I was probably leaning toward Edwards. I was softening toward Hillary during the early debates. She managed to look like the only adult on the stage in some of them. But when Obama won Iowa I gave him a second look and saw that he was the most charismatic leader we've had since Bill Clinton and that's very important. He's also exciting young people and that's the future of the country. I remember when young people were voting for Reagan. That was dispiriting. He's clearly brilliant and capable. Policy wasn't an issue. Every one of our candidates wants basically the same things.

I had all the same reservations about him Obama the AA community did. Too soon, too risky to run a black man and I was also afraid he'd get shot. Pretty soon it was just him and Hillary and Bill Clinton's Jesse Jackson remarks after SC sealed it for me when Super Tuesday came and I voted Obama. It seemed to me that Bill was trying to deny this whole country a watershed moment. Obama was a viable, serious candidate and Clinton's efforts to denigrate that seemed just so wrong. I don't mean that Hillary should have dropped out at that point or anything. I just mean that they should have passed on trying to frame SC that way. They really should. Now, if Edwards was viable I'm not sure what I'd have done. But I'm white and nervous about the GE.

If I was black, as soon Obama won Iowa and thereby demonstrated that he was viable, I would have HAD to vote for him. For my grandchildren. It is simply not the same as a white person voting for a white candidate for racial reasons. Obama's nomination represents the difference between saying to an African American child, "You can do anything." and saying, "You can do a lot more than your grandparents could, but you're not quite equal." How could there be a question? We Democrats were plenty nervous about losing a lot of the African American vote if the Republicans put up Colin Powell and then we worried about Condi. If we worried about that, how could anyone expect Obama not to get great support from black Americans? Even if the Clintons don't like it - and it's natural that they don't - how could they fail to understand that?

[pstans]

38. The voting is over, Hillary can't win the delegate count

Get over it. Hillary lost.

If there is a way that Clinton can win, please let me know.

[Renew Deal]

41. I feel betrayed by Lanny Davis the Lierberman supporter

Lanny supported Lieberman after the primary in 2006, so Larry is about as disloyal as anyone.

[CTLawGuy]

43. Hey Lanny

Hillary wasn't very loyal to us when she voted for war without even giving the question its due consideration...
She wasn't loyal to us when she supported the Patriot Act under similar circumstances...
Nor was she very loyal when she hobnobbed with Indian business interests looking for outsourceable jobs, and when she originally supported NAFTA.
She wasn't loyal when she essentially called all young people "lazy".

Bill wasn't very loyal when he almost got himself thrown out of office by getting head from an intern in the oval office.
He wasn't very loyal when he pushed irresponsible trade agreements without due consideration for our workers.
Nor was he very loyal when he deregulated communication and repealed the Glass-Steagall Act.
Nor was he loyal when he signed the one law that stops gay and lesbian married couples in MA and now CA from having FULL equality under the law - DOMA.


Frankly, I don't see what kind of "loyalty" we owe either of them.

[Cha]

55. Thanks darboy..Important points to remember

when hilary whines about "loyalty".

bilary betrayed Black Americans when they thought it suited their purpose..

<snip>

"Since January, the Clintons have pummeled Barack Obama with racially tinged comments and questions about his character.

Hillary Clinton has questioned why he didn’t walk out on the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr.; why he “denounced” but didn’t “reject” Louis Farrakhan; and whether he is too chummy with the former radical Bill Ayers. She chastised his characterization of white working-class voters as being highfalutin and chided him for not agreeing to a street-fight-style debate.

Bill Clinton has called Obama’s stance on the war a fairy tale, dismissed an early primary win as mere Jesse Jackson redux and recently claimed that Obama was playing the race card against him. Some of this is valid, the result of Obama’s own missteps, but some of it is baffling.

The rhetoric appears to be trafficking in old fears and historic stereotypes. The unspoken (and confusing) characterization of Obama is that he’s militant yet cowardly; uppity yet too cool for school.

The question is this: Have white Democrats soured on Obama? Apparently not. Although his unfavorable rating from the group is up five percentage points since last summer in polls conducted by The New York Times and CBS News, his favorable rating is up just as much.

On the other hand, black Democrats’ opinion of Hillary Clinton has deteriorated substantially (her favorable rating among them is down 36 percentage points over the same period).

While a favorable opinion doesn’t necessarily translate into a vote, this should still give the Clintons (and the superdelegates) pause. Electability cuts both ways"

<more>
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/opinion/03blow.html

[crimsonblue]

45. Hillary's senate colleagues: "The horse is dead Hillary."

Hillary: "No it's not.. and I am going to keep beating it until it is."

colleagues: "It hasn't moved in weeks, and bugs are eating its flesh."

Hillary: "It's just a flesh wound, and the bugs are little helpers that are keeping the infection away."


near future

colleagues: "It's time to get off the horse. The GE was last month."

Hillary: "I can still win! I am the better candidate."

[TexasObserver]

46. Lanny Davis makes Baghdad Bob look like George Washington.

Lanny is the biggest liar on all of television. If he's talkin', he's lyin'.

[yellerpup]

47. K&R!

"disappointed and frutrated" is how I feel, too. Nice work. :kick:

[Raineyb]

48. K&R

I find your analysis of the Lanny Davis interview fascinating. It has reinforced some things that I had suspected about the Clinton campaign mindset.

And it showed me that I was damn right for not voting for her.

Regards

[Number23]

50. Very nice!

I feel the same way you do. But I'm starting to believe that you are wasting your breath.

There are just too many people who want to pigeon-hole blacks and act as if we all work as a single machine, devoid of thought or analysis. Like some great big Soul Brother in the clouds hits a button and we all churn to life and move en masse to do whatever we've been instructed to do.

It is frustrating, exhausting, demoralizing and just plain DUMB that black people have to keep explaining to others that we think critically and analyze issues just like everyone else. And it doesn't matter how many times someone points out the obvious, that we DO think and read and analyze, there are people who just simply refuse to see it. So what's the damn point???

P.S. As I've mentioned before, it seems as if there are more and more black folks signing on to DU recently, and I think that's a good thing. Unless of course it's the same person using multiple accounts, which I do hope is not the case. :o

[Cha]

51. hilary's lies and smears of Obama haven't

earned her day to bask in her faux induced victory in West Virginia..this isn't about hilary ..this is about our country.

[Doctor_J]

57. Lanny's only on the air because he's a repuke

he works for Pox News, fer chrissakes

[Major Hogwash]

59. Hillary was a Republican in 1968. She went to the GOP convention and rooted for them.

I think she returned to her roots once she was elected to the Senate.

I don't listen to anything Lanny Davis says anymore, he's just out there lying his fucking ass off.
Just like Bubba.

[futureliveshere]

61. Beautifully written... Thanks for sharing..K&R

[Beacool]

65. For the reasons stated by Lanny and for many of my own,

I will never, ever vote for Obama. The only way I would even consider it is if Hillary, who has won almost half of the Democratic vote, is also on the ticket. I know that the Clintons will do the loyalty thing and campaign for Obama, but many of her supporters will not vote for him. When Edwards came out and endorsed Obama the day after the WV win, my phone was ringing off the hook. Her supporters and volunteers were furious at the tackiness of the timing of the endorsement and the booing of Obama's supporters.

[ashrob123]

78. So Obama is right

you are bitter. You are voting against your best interest for nonsensical reasons.

I'm not sure if you bothered to watch the Edwards endorsement but you do realize that by the time that he finished the Obama supporters were applauding Clinton profusely?

[Beacool]

87. Bitter??????

Too funny!!! Not bitter, I simply don't think that a rookie should be president, particularly in these difficult times for the country.

[Kahuna]

85. You need to SUIT UP girlfriend! nt

[Eurobabe]

66. I don't know if I would subject myself to

30 minutes of Whiny Davis. That guy is an A-1 dick. All I've heard him do since April 22nd is whine!

Clintons believe in loyalty alright, they're always there when they need you, or how does that saying go?

Problem with the Clintons is they take everything so GD personally, so it is hard for them to move on. Even with all the trouble they've stirred up on the campaign trail, it's their GD sense of entitlement that has me more pissed off than anything.

Having said that, I just let the negative comments roll off my shoulder, because Barack IS our nominee, I just pray that he is not held hostage by the HRC donors who want to force her on this ticket.

Promise her a Supreme Court appointment!!!

[democracy1st]

73. K&R you can't betray those Liberal/Progressive roots and expect to be continously rewarded

[KSinTX]

79. Well stated with a minor exception

Understandably, she was upset at Obama and Edwards for not allowing her to enjoy a day basking in the glory of her WV win before trotting out John Edwards in MI for an endorsement ... I thought that it was a little tacky for the Obama team to do this

Hillary Clinton has emphatically stated that "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." and further that "I feel real comfortable in the kitchen."

There is nothing tacky about landing a strategic blow to your opponent's momentum and sucking the winds of perception out of her campaign's sails. This is her kitchen of choice and there is nothing wrong with taking a valid political point advantage when one is made available. She has said she feels comfortable with the game; it was a valid tactical play.

:kick:

[Skwmom]

80. It's part of the "Clinton as the poor victim" strategy.

[saltpoint]

81. Lanny has a knack for nonsense.

[SaveAmerica]

83. I have written this same point so many times in my posts the past month

My posts are usually in the middle of passionate claims that it is racist for black people to vote for Obama 'just because they're black'. Usually my posts that show that Hillary had the support of the majority of the black community in the beginning and that her and her campaign's own actions and words were the reason they took a second look at other candidates. My posts were usually ignored.

I overheard a conversation yesterday that is an example of what you wrote about; an African American woman was telling her friends that she was going to vote for Hillary until she used the line in WV that she had the votes of the hard-working white people. Her campaign has just been a mess. Your point about MLK III is a very good one, I had forgotten about that. You mean a black man actually looked around at the candidates and made a decision based on his credentials? :sarcasm:

Really good post!

[RaleighNCDUer]

84. The only problem with all this is

the Clinton camp CANNOT apologize without admitting that they have been doing what they have been denying doing ever since Iowa.

If they admit it, it kills their credibility.

If they don't, it kills their credibility.

They've painted themselves into a corner.