Could someone explain to me rationally how voting for McCain

[cali]

makes any sense if you're a dem supportive of the dem platform? OK, I can understand, not voting for the dem candidate, even though I think that's born of irrational emotion and pique out of seeing one's chosen candidate lose, but vote for McCain? I don't understand why anyone who currently supports Clinton would do that- outside of hatred of Obama and/or his supporters. Why would anyone think he'd be a better president than Obama?

Please explain.

[book_worm]

1. I don't understand how anybody who calls themselves a democrat wouldn't vote

for the democratic nominee. Let's face it on the issues by and large Hillary and Obama are pretty close. What it would be is just somebody not happy becuz their candidate didn't get the nomination and so they will take it out on the country.

[skooooo]

2. When I went to our state's caucus...

...there was one gentleman there - must have been in his early 60s maybe. He said if Clinton wasn't the nominee, he would vote for McCain. He said this AT A DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS. I was appalled. Hopefully people like this will be the underwelming minority, but it really pissed me off.

[Skittles]

17. may I ask you skoooo

did you think perhaps this could be racism? I can't help it - that was my reaction to the same sentiment expressed in two letters I read in USA Today. It makes no sense. :o

[skooooo]

38. He said it was "experience..."

And I guess I believe him. I can understand that some folks (especially older folks) would be afraid to vote for a "young whippersnapper."

[Skittles]

42. I'm wondering if that's the polite excuse they are using

because so many of the people in Texas who claim Obama doesn't have experience voted twice for bush - and cannot tell me what HIS experience was when I grill them - no INDEED

[skooooo]

47. True that...

The only comment I have is that maybe they see that the country is so incredibly effed up now, that they are taking things more seriously and think this is a way to express that. Of course, some of them maybe racists - who knows. Probably not all of them.

[bookman]

59. Here's one...

... 60+ White male from Texas who will be voting for the "whippersnapper"! :)

(That makes me feel so old)

[dsc]

3. because some people don't vote on issues

If experience were your only criteria for example, I could easily see Clinton making the cut, McCain making the cut, and Obama not making the cut. Similarly if you refused to vote for women then it would be McCain or Obama.

on edit I don't agree with people who don't vote on issues. But to say they don't exist is just stupid. To act as if they don't exist is deadly.

[GarbagemanLB]

5. If 'experience' was my issue, I'd look at how both candidates ran their campaigns, and see

Obama ran his beautifully, while Hillary did not. Doesn't speak much to her executive skills.

[Straight Shooter]

37. So you voted for bush in 2000 and 2004?

You voted for Reagan against Carter?

You buy retail products because of how they're marketed, too, don't you.

[GarbagemanLB]

63. Do you seriously not wonder about Hillary's executive ability when she is 20 MILLION DOLLARS

in debt??

[Straight Shooter]

82. I seriously do not.

Nor did I wonder about Kerry loaning himself money for his campaign. Believe it or not, I don't give a flying fudiddlewhoopie about who has the dollars. The GOP poured tons of cash into bush's campaign. Maybe that gave bush the illusion that somehow the dollars will always appear for his agenda.

As for running a campaign, if Hillary Clinton had Robert Gibbs as her communications advisor, Obama would never have known what hit him. Everyone thinks Axelrod is so sharp. Maybe he is, but he's the general. Gibbs is the lieutenant.

Anyway, it sucks to work on Saturday, but I gotta go. :hi:

[Mags]

9. I agree with you, experience means a lot when it comes to running a Country.

I can also see Dems. not voting for BO because of the way he has run his campaign and his supporters trashing Hillary all over the internet.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. And how will you vote?

[DAGDA56]

14. So not voting for BO (as you call him) or voting for McCain? Which is it for you?

Is there any difference?

[GarbagemanLB]

15. Do you really want to compare how Obama ran his campaign to Hillary? Hillary's campaign

has been a MESS. 20 MILLION DOLLARS in debt, her choice to hire Mark Penn with his blatant hypocritical ties to Colombia, and her overall LACK of a winning strategy and preparation in the primary.

Doesn't that tell you something about her executive skills?

[cali]

16. Abraham Lincoln had considerably less experience than Obama

And that people would vote for McCainiac because of what internet posters say about them or Clinton, makes the case that it's all about emotion and irrational hate. Thanks for illustrating that for me.

[Mags]

20. no problem. You have helped make my decision more then you could know.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. And what is that decision?

Don't be so coy. Out with it.

[cali]

27. She has come out with it. In all fairness, she's said

she'll vote for McCain on several occasions.

[Mags]

39. I will not vote for McCain. Got it. I will write Hillary in. Got it.

[cali]

Then why have you threatened, on this board to vote for McCain?

[Mags]

46. I have finally made my decision. If BO wins the nomination, I will write Hillary in.

[Warren Stupidity]

57. Barack Obama

You are so wrapped up in hatred you cannot even type his name.

[Mags]

68. I most certainly don't hate BO . I do despise alot of his supporters though.

[Warren Stupidity]

75. Barack Obama

You can do it. It is not that difficult. Try it.

[Mags]

83. things we can no longer talk about: BO

We can't talk about his mother.

We can't talk about his father.

We can't talk about his grandmother unless he does, brings her up as a "typical white person."

We can't talk about his wife,

can't talk about his preacher,

can't talk about his terrorist friends,

can't talk about his voting record,

can't talk about his religion.

We can't talk about appeasement.

We can't talk about color;

we can't talk about lack of color.

We can't talk about race.

We can't talk about bombers and mobsters who are his friends.

We can't talk about schooling.

We can't talk about his name, "Hussein."

We can't talk about his lack of experience.

Can't talk about his income.

Can't talk about his flag pin.

This started out we can't call him a liberal.

It started out we just couldn't talk about his ears.

Now we can't say anything about him.

[Warren Stupidity]

92. You cannot bring yourself to type the letters Barack Obama

Your are stewing in seething hatred. Reflect on that.

[Mags]

94. the hatred has always come from your side, my friend.

[Warren Stupidity]

98. Not really. But then again our side won.

I understand the disappointment in backing a losing candidate. I backed Dean and we got Kerry. I backed Edwards and he lost. I backed Obama and he won. You need to step aside and think once more about what this contest is about. What it isn't about is who exactly is the nominee, it is about winning in November. The nominee selection is one part of a larger game, and you seem to have mistaken it for the game itself.

[cali]

96. that's a construct of your own mind. People absolutely can and

do talk about all of those things. What they can't do is think they can lie about those issues and get away with it. Tough. And really, what is there to say about his middle name, Hussein?

[Mags]

97. I don't think that it is in just my mind, I think it is in alot of Hillary

supporters minds, you know almost half of the Dem voters. Nothing to say about his middle name Hussein, but his lovely wife ask others not to use it.

[cali]

100. And I'm sure you have a link to that quote from Michelle Obama.

So post it. Your word that she asked others not to use it, isn't worth a thing.

[Mags]

103. she thinks it's a fear bomb,

Michelle Obama: name Hussein is 'the fear bomb'
Posted February 28, 2008 8:25 PM


Michelle Obama campaigning in Chillicothe, Ohio for her husband, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., Thursday Feb. 28, 2008. (AP Photo/Chillicothe Gazette, Sarah Wright)

by Mark Silva

Michelle Obama, who often has decried "the fear bomb'' that opponents have used against her husband for his middle name -- Barack Hussein Obama -- said in Canton, Ohio, today that it is happening again and shows why it's so important that he wins election as president.

"They threw in the obvious, ultimate fear bomb," Obama said today of her husband's 2004 Senate race. "We're even hearing now. … 'When all else fails, be afraid of his name, and what that could stand for, because it's different.'"

The senator's wife said that rivals use innuendo to play on fears. "Just as they're saying it now," she said.

But, she told about 200 supporters this morning at a restored theater in Canton, Obama won despite that "climate of negativity and doubt" in 2004. "We learned, number one, that when power is threatened by real change they will say anything to stop it," she said. "But we also learned that the American people can handle the truth."

What America needs, she added, is a "fundamentally different kind of leadership," one that challenges people to be different, and better to one another. And that, she said to critics who say it is not his time, cannot wait.

"Barack Obama will be the kind of leader we need right now, not in four years or eight years or 12 years," she said. "We can't wait to get
http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/michelle_obama_name_hussein_is.html

[cali]

109. exactly she didn't ask anyone not to use it. She pointed out the obvious

that some sleazeballs who oppose him use his name to stir up fear and to lamely try and paint him as some stealth Muslim terrorist type. Pathetic.

[Mags]

116. that's the way the BO folk work.

[slinkerwink]

114. Please give Obama another look in October, and if you have any questions about his policies

I'm more than happy to answer them.

[Warren Stupidity]

51. So you will do your small part to aid a McCain victory

over your anger at having backed the loser in the Democratic primary. It seems that because of some posts here on DU that hurt you, you are willing to enable four more years of republican rule. Get over it. A priamry campaign results in winners and losers. We fight each other like hell in the primaries, and then we get behind our nominee and fight the republicans like hell. Those are the rules and they are good rules.

[Mags]

34. I will write Hillary in.

[cali]

40. Take responsibility for your own actions.

Blaming me for your decision to vote for the war mongering, tax cuts for the rich, corrupt- and stupid- McCainiac, is weak.

[Mags]

45. so be it.

[Colobo]

65. Let's unite, Mags. Obama is our nominee.

[Mags]

106. he's not yet.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. Yes indeed Bush surrounded himself with very experienced people

who proceeded to wreck the republic.

[dsc]

60. which is an arguement against your candidate

Bush's whole message was "I don't have experience but these people do and I will listen to them". To the extent the country regrets buying into that it will hurt Obama.

[Warren Stupidity]

73. No actually it isn't,

The point is that experts and experience are not as important as what 'the decider' does with that expertise. It doesn't matter if the president is 'experienced' or 'surrounded by experts' - they all are one or the other - it matters what is done with that knowledge.

[qazplm]

44. didnt bill say something

about politics being a rough sport and dont get in it if you arent willing to take some hits?

Guess you dont follow his lead?

So basically it boils down to Obama and his supporters said mean things, so I'm going to work for the candidate that will elect conservative judges and continue getting Soldiers killed in Iraq because of it by either not voting for Obama or sitting home.

Absolutely childish.

[Mags]

49. Hasn't BO preached Unity from day one, just where is the unity

coming from BO's supporters?

[Warren Stupidity]

62. "I will write in Hillary"

Do you not see the problem here is you?

[Mags]

72. no, I think the problem has been his supporters, frankly.

[Warren Stupidity]

79. So you think that the shit flinging was one-directional?

Are you that blind?

[Mags]

85. No I'm not legally blind. Shit has been thrown both ways.

[Warren Stupidity]

89. But the Obama shit was like super-shit or something?

You make very little sense. You seem to be claiming that you will not vote for Obama in the GE because Obama posters here insulted Clinton posters here, but you readily admit that your side was doing the same thing. So we had nukular-poop or something?

[Mags]

91. I just don't know.

[Catch22Dem]

4. Real dems (liberals & progressives) don't vote for McCain

That's it, plain and simple, anyone who disagrees is wrong.

[Mags]

26. I've been a strong devout Dem for 58 years, and you my dear have no

aren't anyone to tell others what they are, just because they don't vote your way.

[last_texas_dem]

It doesn't matter how long you've called yourself a Democrat

If you vote for a right-wing neoconservative Republican for President, you're a Democrat-in-name-only, not to mention an idiot.

[Mags]

52. whatever you think means nothing to me.

[last_texas_dem]

58. Then why respond to my post?

ON EDIT: And, oh yeah, what's with the "who cares what you think?" Who do you think you are, George W. Bush?

[ecdab]

64. Because Mags wants to make the point that real Democrats

vote Republican - how dumb is that.

[Colobo]

67. True Democrats will vote for the Dem nominee- Obama.

[Mags]

74. get a life .

[Yael]

86. But you just posted that people on the internet made your decision for you

and that you won't support a democrat unless it is the one the minority of the party chose.

How do you square that with not caring what people say?

[graywarrior]

6. E over I

No emotional stamina.

[sufrommich]

7. It's coming from people who have no allegiance to party,

or are ignorant of the effect politics have on their real lives,or like to throw public hissy fits on the internet. All real Democrats will vote for Democratic candidate,without question,and I say that as a Clinton supporter. I know a lot of Democrats in real life and none that would vote for McCain. I think this whole outrage over Clinton voters going to McCain is typical internet melodrama.

[cali]

50. Thanks. I most certainly would have voted for Clinton had she been

the nominee. But on Hillary support sites, poster after poster states that if Obama's the nominee they'll vote for McCain. Some have even proposed fund raising for him.

[sufrommich]

76. I'm sure that if Obama were in the same position as Clinton

his internet fans would be doing the same.It has nothing to do with the caliber of a certain candidates base and everything top do with human nature in the internet age.For all the hope there was for the internet being the great voice of democracy in action it turns out that it's greatest claim is it allows us to behave like total assholes anonymously.

[Skittles]

8. it DOESN'T make any sense

I have never been a fan of Obama but I cannot help but think there's SOMETHING going on with the folk who say they'd vote for HRC but not for Obama - and then turn around and vote for McCain - it makes no sense to me whatsoever. Even if one was miffed at the conduct of SOME Obama supporters, why wouldn't one say they would not vote at all as opposed to voting for that batshit crazy piece of shit McCain? (I think not voting or voting for McCain are BOTH sheer insanity)

[Mags]

10. I agree with you also, I probably won't vote at all.

[sufrommich]

22. If Obama is the nominee and you chose to

stay home,you WILL be voting for McCain. Look, I'd rather be voting for Clinton too,but if she's not the nominee,I'm voting for Obama.His platform is a democratic platform,what would be your reasoning,as a democrat,for not voting for our candidate?

[Mags]

30. I will write Hillary in.

[qazplm]

48. so in other words

you will cast a meaningless vote that will give McCain one more vote because it will be one less for Obama.

ridiculous and juvenile but please do it. I dont want sunshine democrats in the party, who only vote for Dems when they get their way.

[Mags]

77. ok , thanks

[Colobo]

71. Why do you want to hurt oru nominee? It seems like you want him to lose

because he beat your candidate...

[last_texas_dem]

88. Because some of his supporters on a message board hurt his/her feelings

[Skittles]

29. now wait Mags

I'm not a big fan of either HRC or Obama but I will hold my nose and vote whoever the nominee is because either one of them is 10,000 times better than ANY repuke. Yes INDEED.

[Mags]

32. that's ok, you have a right to. That's fine.

[Warren Stupidity]

36. Why would you do that?

Your one vote doesn't count for much, but it does count. By not voting for the Democratic candidate, you are aiding the Republican candidate. Why would you do that?

[Mags]

43. I will not vote for McCain. Got it. I will write Hillary in. Got it.

[Warren Stupidity]

54. Same thing. Got it. 4 more years. Got it.

You should think about what you are advocating here.

[last_texas_dem]

55. What's the purpose of writing in a non-candidate?

(This is assuming that Clinton does not somehow end up as the Democrats' candidate.) If you're going to cast a wasted vote, you may as well vote third party. Writing in someone who isn't running serves as much purpose as writing in Mickey Mouse.

[martymar64]

104. Then as per DU rules, you'll be leaving us soon

The rest of us will be supporting the Democratic nominee.

[Mags]

105. no, I can stay as long as I don't attack the candidate

[martymar64]

113. If you say you will not support the nominee, then you are breaking DU rules

Go look it up if you don't believe me. Once Obama is the Democratic nominee, then you cannot advocate on this site for Hillary or McCain or Nader or anyone else over the nominee.
Thems the rules, they would apply if Hillary was the nominee. If you have a problem with that, then take it up with Skinner.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. Obviously it doesn't make any rational sense.

Some have gone off the deep end due to emotional attachment to their candidate. Others are behaving quite rationally.

[The Magistrate]

12. Probably Not, Ma'am

But it might provide some low amusement to see any attempts at it....

This kind of thing is simply a product of emotional heat, and will go away as people calm down.

[cali]

24. I think a lot of it is heat of the moment, but not all of it.

I suppose it's possible that some people really believe that Obama doesn't have the experience they believe is needed, and that thus they'll vote for McCain on that issue.

[The Magistrate]

35. It Is Hard, Ma'am, To See Anyone Who Would Have Voted For Sen. Clinton Doing That

Though people have been known to do some damned odd things, it is true.

[rucky]

18. Not even PRETENDING to go McCain

makes a lick of sense.

I don't know what these people want, and I don't think they do either.

[mohc]

19. Not everyone focuses on a left vs right debate

Some are establishment vs anti-establishment. Others focus on personal issues. I believe those that are honestly considering McCain as the alternative to Clinton, meaning not including those just throwing a tantrum, are doing so because they are part of the group that supports the establishment. Often this is wrapped up in arguments on experience, as only those that are part of and support the establishment could have the experience to be president.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. The establishment as in the last 8 years of crap?

Or some other establishment?

[rucky]

31. that really is the subtext of the "experience" arguement

in this case, at least.

With Gore, Biden, Kerry, Dodd & Kucinich, I saw us having the best of both worlds: Insiders who still buck the system.

[last_texas_dem]

28. It doesn't make any sense

Any "Democrat" who votes for McCain is an asshole.

[Mags]

61. do you really think anyone cares if you call them an asshole because they

won't bow to the Precious?

[last_texas_dem]

66. I thought you were writing in HRC and not voting for McCain?

If the shoe fits, asshole.

[cali]

80. It's funny to see you deny you hate Obama when you

clearly express hate for him.

[Mags]

90. laugh all the way to defeat in the GE

[last_texas_dem]

93. And you'll be doing your best to contribute to that, won't you?

Bush and McCain thank you.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## DON'T DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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==================



This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Whatever you do, do not click the link below!

[SoFlaJet]

41. I'm in the entertainment biz down here bro

and the bar i work at is so friggin slow right now. I'm talking to a LOT of people telling them you GOTTA vote for the democrat b/c we can't survive another 4 years of this

[sufrommich]

81. Amen.That is the bottom line.nt

[wishlist]

53. If McCain continues to embrace Bush/neocons, he will lose Indys/Dems

McCain this week has flipflopped from his earlier moderate stance about negotiating in order to get in line with the Bush neocons and he already switched his moderate stance on immigration. If he continues moving right by defending the Bush regime torture policy and other issues where he got his reputation as a maverick independent straight talker, he will lose many of those voters who have a favorable image of him as a moderate with some integrity.

The right wingers don't like his acknowledgment of global warming and his pro-environmental statements, so he will probably backpedal on that too. Dems need to portray him as weak panderer who cannot be be trusted on that issue either. He also has a problem in saying his White House will be open and transparent when he and his wife insist on secrecy over their financial dealings and refuse to release her information.

Bush got votes in 2000 by convincing many voters and media that he would be a moderate uniter with few differences from Gore, so that race became a personal popularity contest. But he did the opposite of his campaign promises and proved to be a radical right winger. But he still managed to win in 2004 by exploiting the war and fear of terrorism and hiding his top priority of privatizing Social Security until he got re-elected. McCain is already revealing his willingness to move to the right and dependence on the use of promoting voter fear. We can only hope that enough in the media and the voting public see through the lies and hypocrisy and don't get fooled again.

[Straight Shooter]

56. I'm not worried about Dems voting for McCain. I worry about them voting for his veep.

If the GOP chooses someone who can sway moderate/conservative Democrats to vote for McCain (wishful thinking that McCain will croak within a couple years), then those Dems will vote for the GOP ticket. I think this is why McCain has positioned himself as he has regarding global warming; he's trying to attract indies and moderate Dems. He wants to regain his reputation as a maverick. (Fat chance.)

Just as there are Repubs who are, for example, pro choice, environmentalists, non-homophobic, and those Repubs vote for Dems, there are also Dems who are *cough* pro life, homophobic, and anti-environmentalism. A very good friend of mine is a Repub because her family has been Repub for generations and she has family in public office. But she was an incredible Dean supporter and she voted for Kerry. (She really doesn't like Obama or Clinton.)

Now, if you're talking about the Dems on DU and lambasting them for voting for McCain, that's a different story. Most here are hard core, just as most Freepers are hard core Repubs. So I can see why you would want to ostracize them, if they stray from the herd.

[rucky]

70. They'll go the other way on the ticket

their party is splitting at the seams, too.

[Straight Shooter]

84. We live in interesting times :)

:D

[sufrommich]

99. It really is frightening to think about how fragile

the reasoning is for most peoples votes. I have a friend who I consider to be a very bright person who told me a week ago that he's thinking about voting 3rd party because neither of out candidates are "radical" enough for him.I told him it's imperative that we vote for the party that can deliver real change instead of a fringe party that can deliver nothing,this is no time for a protest vote,this is serious shit. I honestly don't understand that kind of logic at this point in time.

[pipi_k]

69. You ask why they would think McCain would be

a better president than Obama, but I don't think that's it.

I really believe it's all about the 8 year old hissy fits.

I'm sure we all knew at least one kid when we were younger who, just because he brought his baseball and his bat to the neighborhood sandlot game wanted to play by HIS rules. "It's MY bat and MY ball, and if we can't play by MY rules, we won't play at all!!!"


And, quite honestly, anybody who would take one of our country's most precious rights and play childish games with it should have that right taken away.

How many people in other countries would die...have died...for the rights we take so much for granted....the ones we just play with like we're spoiled eight year olds...the ones we think will always be there.

So what are these people gonna do? Stay home on voting day? Vote for McCain, and, when he wins and screws up the country even more, sit back for the next four years and smugly say, "SEE???? I TOLD you Hillary should have been chosen in the primaries...SHE would have won against McCain!!!!" For them, it's not about party loyalty...for them it's all about their own shitty little egos and, in the end, punishing the entire nation because they couldn't have what they wanted.

And, if Hillary had been the nominee, I'd say the same thing to any Obama supporter who voted for McCain instead.

Seriously, people need to grow the hell up

[Mz Pip]

101. Well said.

This falls into South Park's Eric Cartman's "Screw you guys, I'm going home!" rant when he doesn't get his own way.

If our election is decided by those with the emotional maturity and political foresight of rude spoiled cartoon characters then maybe we get the government we deserve.

Hillary would make a far better president than John McCain; so would Obama, but misplaced over the top loyalty to either one of them at the expense of 4 years of John McCain in the White House just doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Yael]

78. Ignorance and selfishness

Because they are perceived as backing the wrong horse, they will vote against their (and our) greater interest rather than admit that the country chose another approach than they did.

Pure self-centeredness.

[dugggy]

87. Very simple to explain......there are gobs of Reagan democrats

who vote. They need a centrist candidate like the Clintons.
Obama with his MOST liberal voting record in senate will lose
again. McGovern redux.

[last_texas_dem]

108. On what grounds is the assessment of Obama as "most liberal [Senator]" based?

I seem to recall Kerry being the "most liberal" and Edwards being the "fourth-most liberal" Senator in '04, but this was based on the fact that they had missed many votes while campaigning for president, tending to attend when more high-profile legislation was being voted upon, and thus biasing their voting records in a more liberal direction.

[LoZoccolo]

95. It's not really rational, but explainable in terms of attention whore tactics. n/t

[OHdem10]

102. I am not defending anyone here.only answering the question.

With the world facing such serious problems and our country
on the verge of a depression, it could be just human behavior.

When anxiety is high, people look for the familiar and seek
familiar for their own feelings of security. This has been
both Hillary's and John McCain's appeal.

Obama is an unknown quantity and is therefore not as psychologically
reassuring.

You know the old saying--I will go with the devil I know , rather
than the one I do'nt.

[joeybee12]

107. Obama will be a very weak president...he's being propped up by his

supporters and enablers in the press...there is nothing in his background or history to show that he will actually accomplish anything, so being on the right side of the issues matters little if nothing gets done. And if nothing gets done, then how pissed off will voters be come 2010? Could we see another 1994? I think that's a real possibility.

McLame will also be a lousy president, but that gives us a good chance to even add on moer in Congress in 2010, and then dump McLame in 2012 for a Democrat who might matter. Look at him as a caretaker president.

That said, I didnt say I was voting for McLame, but face it, come November, McLame will seem very palatable to a lot of people

[cali]

110. really, another lame know it all oracle.

Obama has a distinguished career. He's clearly intelligent, well organized, able to listen and think. He's a constitutional scholar. He's exhibited that he's well versed on issues. He has clear policies. Does that mean he'll be a good president? No, but your completely false construct in which you trot out the tired old "he's just an empty suit" meme, means nothing.

Now don't you have some Hilly group to be busy with stirring up repuke like bullshit?

Looks pretty clearly like you plan to vote for McCainiac against Obama.

[joeybee12]

111. Oooh...a mind-reader! Being intelligent does not necessarily equate

into being a good president...take Jimmy Carter, a very smart and honroable man who was a really lousy President. So, tell me all about Obama's distinguished career, the legislation he has fought tooth and nail over, the hard-fought battles he has won to advance those positions.

[cali]

112. He fought tooth and nail for legislation mandating

the video taping of suspects in Police custody in Illinois. He fought for health care coverage in the Illinois Senate. He passed the Lugar/Obama legislation that passed in the U.S. Senate. Now tell me what hilly has done in her 7 years in the Senate. Aside from bending over for bush, of course, and enthusiastically backing Lieberman's K/L crap.

Oh, and I'm not the one that made any predictions about how the next several years would unfold under an Obama administration. I assumed from your words about how JMac would be a care taker president that you preferred him to Obama.

[joeybee12]

115. No, I don't think I'd prefer McLame, however, since I think he'd

be a caretaker president, he can't do much more harm...the SCOTUS is already lost as far as I'm concerned because they got 5 nutjobs and the ones being replaced will be the liberal members in the next several years. What is Lugar/Obama? As for Hilary, she and Patty Murray blocked Bush's appointment as head of the FDA (can't think of his name) one of many nutjobs Bush appointed that the rest of the senate laid down for.