why does the entire Dem party have to placate Clinton and her supporters

[carpe diem]

like they are spoiled 4yr. olds having a tantrum? Hillary claims herself to be as smart, tough, and capable as any man, why can't she take her ass-whipping and lose like a man? Edwards, Biden, Dodd, Richardson, Gravel, and Kucinich all threw their hats in the ring and took their best shot. When it didn't work they thanked their suppporters, paid their debts, hugged their families and went home. They accepted that it wasn't going to happen for them and went on with their lives.

But, with Hillary, OMFG, the entire Democratic party has to coo and coddle and coax and woo her back from the edge lest she jump and take the whole party with her. WTF is this shit?!? This was the most important campaign of her life and she took it for granted and the 'new guy' out-smarted and out-hustled her. She made stategic errors and misspent her money and by the time she 'found her voice' she was too deep in the hole and there was no way out. THAT IS HER AND HER CAMPAIGN'S FAULT! Not the mysogonistic media or Barack Obama's. He read the rule book and beat her fair and f**king square!

I have had all I can stand of this 'she so tough, experienced'/'she's a victim' schizophrenic, have it both ways bs.

She lost. Like the vast overwhelming majority of the people who run for president. Most of them lose. She's in good company. One of her own supporters acknowledged that they 'lost this thing in February', yet we've had to indulge this three-month long act of rage(tantrum) against the Democratic front-runner and presumptive nominee. She's not crazy or stupid and I'm sure she can count. It's all about harming Obama, because it was 'her turn and he took her bleeping prize', wah wah wha! Act like a grown-up, show some dignity and think of the country if not the party and let's get on with this shit.

[tritsofme]

1. If you're not interested in "placating" Hillary supporters, good luck

finding the keys to the White House.

This isn't the GE, you can't take the prize and tell the losers to fuck off.

[theHandpuppet]

2. Touche'

:evilgrin:

[BlooInBloo]

5. Watch us.

[StevieM]

82. The words of the McGovernites throughout history. (eom)

[dchill]

128. (eom)

[VotesForWomen]

163. yep, have you ever seen a more ignorant, arrogant, foolhardy bunch of people in your life?

[Forkboy]

200. Yes

[Adelante]

207. Actually, I have, every goddamned day

Those who are willing to offer aid and comfort to John McCain rather than vote for Obama. Ignorant, arrogant and foolhardy.

[pnwmom]

221. The kind of attitude in the OP encourages just that, indirectly.

It is extremely divisive.

[JeanGrey]

224. Look, she LOST. And she made a lot of enemies and a FOOL

of herself and Bill in doing so. Do you really think people are going to just placate her forever? She's history, it's over. She doesn't have the power anymore.

Now you can delude yourself that if the "supporters" get mad McCain will win, but I believe my next door neighbor could beat McCain.

[pnwmom]

293. I didn't say people need to "placate her." I said they need to reach out

to her supporters and try to heal the breach. And insulting her isn't a way to do that.

Or we can all watch the party go down to defeat by a few critical percent. (Don't forget also that Nader is in the race, sucking off his few percent.)

[Ken Burch]

310. OK, Obama people should reach out. At the same time.

HRC people need to accept that it's over and that it's not appropriate for them to keep trying to discredit Obama. That's not really asking that much.

Both sides need to ratchet down the rhetoric, and I'm trying to do that with my own posts. It needs to go both ways.

[pnwmom]

371. The greater obligation goes to the winner.

Obama knows that, and that's why he's just told his supporters to help him by "being nice" to Hillary's supporters.

He is not helped AT ALL by his supporters continuing to spew the Hillary hate. They should follow his example, declare victory, and unilaterally withdraw from the war. It's OVER. Be confident enough to follow Obama's lead.

[shadowknows69]

386. It's a Democrats obligation to vote for the nominee

Regardless of how their ego might have been bruised from one of their teammates.

[pnwmom]

387. No one has any obligation to the party.

That's why we have a secret ballot.

As citizens, I think we have an obligation to vote, and to make the best choices we can. Period.

And I say this as someone who fully intends to enthusiastically vote for Obama in the fall. But I don't think anyone should be taking the votes of Hillary's supporters for granted. It's time to mend fences.

[shadowknows69]

389. As as Clinton supporters agree to back our nominee fences are mended

How easy is that?

[pnwmom]

392. Fences will be mended much more quickly and sturdily

if supporters of other candidates acknowledge that HRC's supporters to have some valid reasons to be unhappy about the misogynistic and/or sexist attacks that she and her supporters were repeatedly subject to.

It was a minority that engaged in these attacks, but a nasty and loud minority. And instead of joining together to fight this, supporters of other candidates were more likely to pretend it wasn't happening, or to minimize the seriousness of it. Sorry, but that doesn't cut it.

[VotesForWomen]

416. exactly, and this wouldn't be the first election in which dems fail to grasp that.

[Hoof Hearted]

403. My vote is sacred. I'll never be a blind lemming who elevates any political party above my own

personal convictions. I will not vote for McCain. I will not vote for Obama.

[shadowknows69]

404. If you don't support our candidate your helping McCain, it's that simple

If you can live with helping to enable 4 more years of Republicans then bully for you. My conscience tend to keep me from doing such disastrous things.

[PoliticalAmazon]

411. It's months between now and November Give them the time they need to make...

a decision when they aren't constantly torn up by Hillary's anger and hate.

[pnwmom]

437. Same goes for you. And Obama says that the way to support him is

to "be nice" to HRC's supporters -- don't pressure them -- be patient while this plays out.

I can't understand why Obama's supporters don't trust him about this.

[PoliticalAmazon]

410. I support Obama, but I agree with your determination not to sheeple on up to the polls....

and vote for someone just because there is a (D) in front of its name.

I voted for Kerry in 2004, and that is the last time I will vote for someone just because they're the only (D) left in the ring. I could have kept the integrity of my own convictions, voted for a candidate I believed in, and the result would have been the same: John Kerry didn't care shit about our votes and immediately ceded the election to Bush Jr. So, once again, my vote in the presidential election didn't count because the Dem leadership in this country and in Congress would not stand up for our votes.

Anyway, I hope you will give Obama another look once this acrimonious primary is behind us. He's not perfect by a long shot, but he has a lot of offer America as president, ad his ability to stay mainly forward-thinking and positive during the campaign, IMO, atests to his desire to lead by inspiration, not by threats or scare tactics like Bush Jr has done.

[JeanGrey]

340. The party isn't going down in defeat. That is a pipe dream.

No placating will be done. Check out Oregon and Obama's numbers. Seventy five THOUSAND. He doesn't need to worry about Hillary supporters.

[pnwmom]

372. A pipe dream? You think I WANT the party to go down in defeat?

Obama, unlike you, is smart enough to know that he won't win this election without the support of the vast majority of HRC's supporters.

That's why he JUST asked his supporters to be "nice" to Hillary's people. You should listen.

[JeanGrey]

418. He asked them to be nice to them because he IS NICE. Which

we have ALL SEEN throughout this campaign, when he could've been really, really, nasty. It is character, not neediness.

[pnwmom]

438. I didn't say it was "neediness." I said it was smart.

And evidence of self-confidence.

Too bad his supporters aren't as secure in his victory as he is.

[JeanGrey]

452. If it goes on much longer however it CEASES to be smart

and starts to be stupid. Hillary is dangerous, and IMHO, not firing on all cylinders. This farce cannot go much further.

[pnwmom]

454. I think things will look very good for Obama tomorrow night.

Don't you?

[Robert Murphy]

383. Well Said (N/T)

..

[PoliticalAmazon]

409. Don't feel we have to "placate" them, but we do owe them their right...

...to take the time they need to get over their disappointment. Trying to force them won't work, and insulting them helps nobody but McCain.

Ultimately, it is their right to vote for whomever the want. I have faith that most, once Hillary isn't daily stirring up hate and anger, will give Obama a second look and many of them will ultimately decide to vote for him in November.

It's all about respecting our fellow Democrats, their rights, and their ability to decide for themselves who would make the best president.

[StevieM]

366. I don't think a candidate who got as many votes as Hillary did looks too foolish. She will probably

finish with the popular vote lead, even excluding Michigan.

That arrogant attitude, that Hillary has been disgraced, is why Obama is so disliked by many Democrats.

Enjoy doing the McGovern thing. On Election Day exit polls will show that Hillary would have beat McCain, while Obama gets wiped out. And history will begin to record his reprehensible tactics, recognize the unfairness of the criticism of her, and ultimately she will be Senate Majority leader.

That's assuming that she still can't pull something off, which I haven't ruled out.

Steve

[JeanGrey]

419. I'm sorry, but she has. Watch and see.

[VotesForWomen]

415. *she* made a lot of enemies??!! back at you. and if you thinks O's got an easy win, you are the FOOL

[JeanGrey]

453. Obama is going to win by a LANDSLIDE. You can take thatq

to the bank.

[RaleighNCDUer]

349. I got this little problem. I will deal fairly and honestly with anyone

who deals the same way with me. And when when I am treated like trash, I respond the same way. I do NOT turn my fucking cheek.

When Hillary supporters stop saying I'm a cultist, stop saying I'm under some kind of fucking mind control, stop saying SHE is going to win, then I will stop responding to that shit. THAT is divisive.

I don't care if she's won 47%. 47% is not enough to win. That means she lost. And trying to hold the party hostage instead of focusing on beating McCain goes beyond my now meager limits of my patience.

[pnwmom]

374. HRC's people could say exactly the same thing.

When they are called "Hillary's harpies," when they hear their candidate being called a witch, a bitch, a whore, and worse, when they hear her being mocked for her thick ankles, her hips, her pantsuits, her "shrill" voice, her "cackle," etc. etc. -- don't be surprised if they don't feel like turning the other cheek.

Obama has won. He has the sense to realize that it is HIS job to reach out in reconciliation to HER supporters -- not the other way around. Too bad his supporters aren't all as smart as he is.

[RaleighNCDUer]

412. Oh, (deleted) and your self righteous bullshit.

You KNOW that your candidate is not being called those things by fellow democrats. You keep posting that same fucking trash to guilt the Obama supporters who are NOT doing it. You've been posting it for fucking MONTHS. And it has NEVER been true.

You pick a couple posts from trolls and apply it to ALL Obama supporters as if it was god's given truth. You selectively read into a couple posts and pretend to misunderstand - as when Randi Rhodes caller her and Ferrarro 'whores' - when the OBVIOUS meaning is a political whore selling out their principles for their own gain (which is the very definition of the DLC).

And you ARE smart enough to know that throwing out those accusations is anything BUT in the interests of party unity. That is EXACTLY what I was talking about - you accuse and I'm supposed to make nice.

Fuck that.

[VotesForWomen]

420. back at you.

[VotesForWomen]

417. Hill is not holding th party hostage. 47% matters, and many of us have been called racists and heard

hillary called a bitch far too many times to just forget about it and jump on the obamawagon. besides, it doesn't matter anyway. O is going to lose in Nov, because when he tries the 'anybody who doesn't vote for me is a racist' thing in the GE it is going to backfire on him.

[Ken Burch]

290. No one who hated McGovern ever did a damn thing for women in office

It's not possible to be a feminist and a Scoop Jackson hawk.

Every war we're in and will be in again is right wing and antiwoman.

[The Doctor.]

316. For you;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6020269&mesg_id=6020269

I think you judge too quickly.

[VotesForWomen]

421. hmmm.

[hokies4ever]

273. Don't jump on the bandwagon late

after we beat McCain. You'll be a Judas to us. :rofl:

[Ken Burch]

289. Your candidate, if she does get nominated, will make no conciliatiry gestures towards Obama

and his supporters. Why does this HAVE to go to the convention before your side can accept reality?

Why does it have to drag out to the end?

[pnwmom]

294. She won't get nominated. But historically speaking,

making conciliatory gestures toward the #2 candidate is exactly what general election winners do -- and it's why they're winners. Do you think JFK asked Lyndon Johnson to run with him because he LIKED him?

You have no basis for your statement about HRC's unwillingness to make conciliatory gestures, and neither do I, but my gut tells me that she would have reached out to Obama's supporters.

And I certainly expect Obama to be smart enough to reach out to her supporters.

(I don't expect either of them to end up as V.P. however, but there are many other ways of reaching out.)

[Ken Burch]

304. What exactly could Obama do, at this point?

HRC's supporters aren't showing him the respect he is due as the frontrunner.

They won't even ADMIT he's the frontrunner. Too many of them keep acting like he has no right to be in the race at all.

How much reaching out can you expect the man to do while the other candidate and her supporters keep trying to delegitamize him?

I'm sure Obama will reach out. The man isn't suicidally stupid. But the HRC people need to accept that it's over first. And they need to admit that Obama deserves the nomination and is just as qualified for it as HRC.

Do you see ANY of them doing that?

I'd like to see, as I've said before, Obama appoint HRC to the Supreme Court. But you can't really use that as a campaign promise.

I started another thread asking HRC supporters what steps Obama could take to reach out to them. Some answered respectfully(and I appreciate that)but others were still demanding that he simply give way to her.
Would you at least agree that the HRC people need to stop the bashing?

[pnwmom]

308. For one thing

people should stop calling them "losers" and other nasty names. (That happened on another DU thread just today.) That isn't going to make them feel better about their situation.

Obama is being a gracious winner. His supporters should follow his lead.

As someone who has not been a partisan in this long race, but an observer, one thing that I think would help would be to acknowledge that HRC supporters have some valid grievances. There WAS indeed a surprising amount of misogynistic and sexist vitriol directed against HRC in this race. Not from Obama, but from a significant number of supporters of both Obama and other candidates. Much of the Hillary-hate used the same language and seemed to come from the same toxic well that Limbaugh supporters drink from. It was truly disturbing for me to run into so much of this here on DU. Obama people don't help his cause by trying to minimize the problem.

[ExPatLeftist]

323. You're judging all Obama supporters based on the actions of a few individuals

And there is nothing the rest of us can do about it. Each one of us controls only our actions.

So please look at Obama and his message and see if you can get on board with that rather than shooting the party in the foot because a few people that Obama has nothing to do with said some things you didn't like.

[pnwmom]

328. I told you I've no problem with Obama or "getting on board" with him.

But we could all HELP Obama by reaching out to HRC supporters in positive ways. And one way is to acknowledge the validity of their feelings. Yes, they have watched their candidate being subject to nasty sexist slurs. Yes, even some Dems are misogynists, or use that language. Let's all work together to change this as we move forward.

And one of the best things men can do is not to insist the problem is very small or limited to a few bad apples -- but, when they see it occur, to call it for what it is -- even when it is done by supporters of their OWN candidate.

[ExPatLeftist]

382. Many of us call others on their crap.

I am one of them.

But I am one person and you are painting with a broad brush, talking about his supporters rather than the few that do this. Other than calling them on it, there is not much else the rest of us can do, and it is getting old being lumped in with them by Clinton supporters that want to chastise all of us for the acts of the few.

That is not helping the situation either.

[RaleighNCDUer]

344. It's hard to be a gracious winner when the loser refuses to admit the loss.

Obama supporters are jumping up and down on the couch saying "Nya, nya, nya, Youu looooost!"

We are responding to Clinton supporters who insist on saying "it isn't over" when by all rational calculations it IS over. They say, "We will take this" and we say "no, you won't", and they say "yes we WILL" and we say, "no you WON'T, wake the fuck up!" and they say, "poor me, you can't be nice. Why do you hate women?"

Mysogyinism has NOTHING to do with it. Was sexism at play when we were all pissed at Nader for being a spoiler? No, it was the TACTICS. The boldfaced opportunism that would rather drag down the winner than admit to being a loser.

[pnwmom]

368. Obama is being a gracious winner, and his followers should follow suit.

Otherwise, they seem insecure, immature, and defensive.

There's no reason to rub salt into the wounds of HRC's supporters. Obama is calmly waiting until he has the necessary number of pledged delegates -- which will likely be on Tuesday. Why can't his supporters trust him?

Misogyny and sexism was at the bottom of much of the Hillary-hate around here. I never minded people who criticized her strongly for her positions or her actions. But I WAS offended when people made fun of her feminine voice and body shape, her ambition (as if ambitious men are ever criticized for being ambitious) her pantsuits, or called her nasty misogynistic names. That kind of vitriol has no place in a contest among Democrats, and would be akin to making fun of Obama for his skin color or the texture of his hair.

[spag68]

345. Obama supporters

I tend to observe as you do, but I agree with your statement.

[StevieM]

373. Hillary supporters are required to change our opinion as to whether Obama is as qualified as HRC?

And we have to say he deserves the nomination and that he was the right nominee for our party?

And if we don't, then Obama will do what? He needs us, we don't need him.

But I can't believe that you actually think that we need to do those things you listed. It's almost sureal.

It's not over until MI and FL are resolved on May 31 and Obama gets a majority of all delegates.

Steve

[WillyToad]

132. This is the most ignorant post Ive ever seen here

Hate makes people say stupid things

[StevieM]

213. Yep, and that's saying a lot! (eom)

[JackORoses]

231. It's not Hate. It's Pity and Disgust.

[mrbluto]

236. Probably the other way around in this case.

I think it takes a really dedicated idiot to keep churning the hate when it looks like the candidate they supposedly support has such a strong chance of being the nominee.

Basically this supporter is shitting where his candidate eats and loving every minute of his (vicarious) victory dance.

At this point it's clearly about wallowing in smugness and denying dignity to people whose support might be helpful, or even necessary, in the future.

What do you think Obama would ask him to do?

a.) Quit tripping on hate.
b.) Get a clue
c.) STFU
d.) All of the above.

If you answered "d." then there's that much more hope for the future.

[complain jane]

314. .: clap clap :. n/t

[AZ Criminal JD]

166. We will

[liberalcommontater]

216. What, lose?

That would be bad for all of us.

[pnwmom]

220. Fortunately, Obama's much smarter than many of his supporters. n/t

[movonne]

6. And is this a threat that they will vote for mc cain or stay at home

and not vote..that would be the same thing as voting for mc cain

[TLM]

92. A significant number of hillary voters are voting mccain anyway.

Just like rush told them to.

[sufrommich]

181. Do you have a link which states democratic

women will vote how Rush tells to,or that any "significant" number of democratic women will be voting for McCain? Why even post an asshole statement like that?

[KaptBunnyPants]

209. I believe he is referring to Operation Chaos voters, not actual Hillary supporters.

[babylonsister]

7. No, the losers have to face reality. What's your problem? Obama would

have been gone months ago if the shoe was on the other foot.

[VotesForWomen]

164. the reality is that you need us "losers'" votes, or O is going to be a loser. got it?

[totodeinhere]

185. If the losers are good Democrats then O automatically should get your vote...

since he is the party's nominee. And if you are not good Democrats then what are you doing here?

[acmavm]

237. He's the 'nominee' that the MSM saddled us with.

[NOLALady]

280. The MSM,

as well as the delegates and the popular vote.

[acmavm]

287. No. This was just a set-up so the media could play all this tacky tawdry

drama off on the American public for months and months and months.

These two were the worst of the entire bunch. But they have shown that they do have that 'The Dumb and the Rest of Us' soap opera pathos down to a science, and that's all that mattered.

[shellgame26]

354. AMEN

Stop trying to sabotage the party with your "well you need our votes so you Better kiss our ass" crap. If you are not willing to get on board the victory train THEN YOU ARE NO FUCKING DEMOCRAT Keep your vote cuz you know what? The people who REALLY LOVE THIS COUNTRY AND WANT TO SEE CHANGE WILL VOTE OBAMA!

[VotesForWomen]

422. i'm not a 'good democrat;' i vote on principle and long term strategy, and i am here because the dem

dems *usually* represent my values more closely than repugs (of course), but if the dems f-up too bad, i can certainly vote independent or otherwise. it is very foolish for dems to simply assume that they are entitled to 'loyalty votes.'

[JeanGrey]

225. Oh, Lord, right.

:crazy::crazy:

[JackORoses]

235. you act like you are the one who has bargaining chips. You don't. Hillary lost.

So the question is, "Are you a Democrat, or not?"

If you are, then you will vote for Obama in the Fall.
If not, then good riddance.

There is no need to appease your demands.

You're either on the Bus, or you aren't.

[VotesForWomen]

423. if she loses the nom she'll still be viable in 2012; if O loses the GE he's history forever. so yeah

i'd say hill and her supporters have some bargaining chips.

[JackORoses]

430. Hillary will be lucky if she is reelected to the Senate after such a Public Embarrassment as this

[Raineyb]

440. If you think Senator Clinton has a chance in hell in 2012...

then you're as delusional as Senator Clinton is.

LIEberman thought he could run again in 2004 and look where it got him. Considering the number bridges Clinton burned this year she'll be lucky to be reelected to the senate.

Regards

[Carolina]

258. and what of the reverse ???!!!

If HRC steals the nomination(and that's what it would take), she will lose because Repukes have a loathing of her and Bill that is limitless. They will come to the polls in record numbers simply to vote against HER. Now, with her arrogance and petulance, she has alienated Indies and many Dems.

She will surely lose the GE just as she has lost the primary contest!

And if you STUPIDLY want to bite your nose off to spite your face because that bitch lost, then so be it. Go ahead, hurt yourself.

[philk17088]

278. need you????????

YOU need to get on board for the Dem or you will suffer thru McCain along with the rest of us.You want to punish us?
Maybe if Hillary and her followerss kiss OUR asses long, hard and deep enough we MAY supporter her in her next endeavor what ever it may be.

[pnwmom]

297. Why is that the choice? YES, the "losers" have to face reality. And YES

the "winners" -- if they're going to stay winners through the general election -- need to reach out to them and try to heal the breach.

Even calling people losers and winners sounds negative and divisive to me. All of us Dems were either neutral or were SUPPORTERS of various candidates. How does it help to heal the party by repeatedly referring to Clinton's supporters (or Kucinich's or anyone else's) as "losers"?

And won't we ALL be winners if -- together -- we defeat John McCain?

[The Doctor.]

317. True. It seems they really won't listen, but give them a chance;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6020269&mesg_id=6020269

[SeattleGirl]

9. I didn't read "fuck off" anywhere in the OP.

:eyes:

[The Doctor.]

318. Should you have?

It's funny how so many seem uninterested in getting along.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6020269&mesg_id=6020269

Vilification is the objective, not conversion.

[carpe diem]

10. more threats and blackmail...it really has become a hostage crises...n/t

[Donkeykick]

13. Exactly!

Hillary's numbers do talk, don't they?

[leftofcool]

28. And it the voice of women is about to get very loud

[DesEtoiles]

31. yawn

[rodeodance]

42. whats the matter? tired of distoring information?

[rodeodance]

43. HEAR THEM ROAR

[leftofcool]

46. Oh yea!

[jsmirman]

115. Roar what and roar about what? You act as if there's a woman issue here

that is complete and total bullshit.

There is no woman issue. Only a candidate issue, where you have a candidate who can't accept that she lost and is a whiny, deluded, vindictive loser. And she has supporters who equal her in each regard.

Here me roar should be reserved for some actual woman shit, like say defending the right to choose. But you mensites would put that in jeopardy to take up the cause for a self-entitled jerk, all the while screwing women in general.

I hope you're proud of how stupid you are being. It's pathetic.

[Raejeanowl]

157. Actual Women Shit???????

You know, you had me agreeing that there weren't women's issues in this contest between candidates until you said that. It's like trying to forgive Obama for the "typical white person" crap. You have no idea how bigoted you really are, even when this garbage flows past your lips, and that IS pathetic.

[jsmirman]

176. Oh, bullcrap. You're reaching. Letty Cottin Pogrebin's son taught me how to play hockey

My mother is a working woman who worked most of my life and rose rapidly through a major advertising company. Get bent. Just because you come up with some irrational interpretation of what I said because you desperately WANT to believe I'm bigoted on women's rights and issues doesn't make it so. Your post is a joke.

[pnwmom]

376. The son of a feminist taught you to play HOCKEY and so you're an expert

on women's issues.

I think I have to

:puke:

[jsmirman]

378. That's crap. When in the world did I ever say I was an expert??? I said that acting like

I don't respect women or don't care about women's issues is bullshit.

But way to totally make up what you wanted to think I said and attack that. That's not messed up or anything.



:thumbsdown:

[pnwmom]

380. You declared there is no "woman's issue" and to support that flat statement

you said that a feminist's son taught you hockey.

Please.

[jsmirman]

390. You hardly need to be an expert to declare this is bullshit. Like I said elsewhere, please

enlighten me as to how this is a woman issue and not just a losing candidate issue. I think it's complete and total bullshit and that people would be telling her that the campaign was over if she was man, woman, or hermaphrodite, but maybe I'm missing something here.

But apparently, according to you, anyone who states an opinion is automatically claiming expert status, which is further bullshit.

Get fucking real and complain about something real.

The poster I responded to "claimed" to be following my reasoning until they took lame issue with my specific syntax. The syntax was used to indicate that I didn't give a flip about women's issues. THAT is what I responded to. But keep making shit up. It's very in keeping with the schizo you support.

[pnwmom]

377. Did you just have an "Aha moment"?

You were about to say there weren't women's issues in this contest -- then you ran into one of the sexual bigots that keep popping up around here.

You are right that Obama and Hillary are both strong on women's issues. But it is ALSO true that a lot of misogynistic and sexist garbage has been spewing from the mouths of some of his fervent supporters. And it will only hurt OBAMA in the long run.

[jsmirman]

391. Ah, see, I'm a "sexual bigot" now. Could you be any more full of it?

And THAT again is what I was responding to- which is quite different from using my examples to claim any sort of "expert" status on women's issues. But actually following along to the extent of "a: this is what someone said and b: so this is what is being responded to" is obviously too much for you.

Citing what I said as some sort of example of "mysogynistic and sexist garbage" is so twisted and such a reach that it shows what nonsense this whole package of whining is. It's pathetic, it's disgusting, and if you have a shred of intelligence, it should be demeaning to that shred.

Your posts in this thread are vile.

[pnwmom]

393. I wasn't talking to you. But if the shoe fits . . . n/t

[jsmirman]

402. Riiiight. Except that you were stroking a post that was a direct response to me.

But try to play gotcha. It's as much bullshit as the rest of what you posted.

[sufrommich]

183. What the hell is a "mensite"?

[cali]

167. yeah? If you don't think there will be a roar back from women

like me, think again. 53, white, educated. don't care for latte.

[shellgame26]

357. And there'll be a roar right back from me

You behave as though no woman is supporting Obama, or lemme guess, only white 53 year old women count right? For all your efforts in trying to make this about gender YOU FAIL. This is not about gender AND IF YOU WERE REALLY ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS YOU WOULD NOT BE WILLING TO WATCH THE CONSERVATIVE WHITE GUY BEAT THE PROGRESSIVE BLACK MAN.

[cottonseed]

214. NARAL just did.

[SoxFan]

230. HEAR THEM BORE

Please take your preening sense of Boomer entitlement and be gone.

[bvar22]

239. By all means, ROAR McCain into office!

[Mimosa]

445. LOVE the cartoon...Is it Sorel?

The cartoon is fabulous.

I'm a boomer broad and I supported Obama early on. Hillary's not entitled to votes from anybody. No candidate is.

[cascadiance]

45. If it is about women's rights issue, then SPELL THEM OUT!!! Obama will likely listen!

But the whole f'ing problem is that it isn't about these people championing issues they want to have worked on! It is about having their God made our God (even if they don't want to admit their into religious government rule). Because that is really what is going on here! If it's not Hillary who's leading us, then they won't jump on anyone else's ship. That's a non-negotiable position that frankly MOST of us here are getting VERY tired of!

Like I said, if it is some specific women's issues that you think Obama's campaign is being insensitive to, or for that matter gay people's issues, etc. that Hillary has been putting forth superior positions, PULEASE spell them out! Then we can go over them, and I'm guessing many, if warranted, would have a lot of us jumping in line to support as well. But we're past the point of picking *WHO* we are going to nominate. It is more what our party stands for at this point and how we reach a majority of people to beat McCain in the Fall. Anything else, and we can rightly regard you a cancer on this party for this coming election!

[rodeodance]

56. too bad you are getting tired.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

134. Yes. Very tired of your ignorance and willful stupidity.

[democracy1st]

170. best to put that fool on ignore

[leftofcool]

61. You are assuming this is just about Hillary

[jgraz]

74. It is as far as Hillary is concerned

Why is it so hard for you to see that?

[leftofcool]

86. Then you have not been paying attention

For many women, this is not just about Hillary. But, I will be wasting my post trying to explain it to you.

[jgraz]

95. It seems for many women, this is about electing someone with a certain configuration of genitals

How's that for paying attention?

[leftofcool]

109. No, it isn't

That is what you would like for it to be about. But, it isn't

[StevieM]

363. I know, seriously, I'm a guy. This isn't about electing a woman, it's about electing Hillary (eom)

[jsmirman]

118. No, really, please tell us how the fuck this is a woman's issue.

Because that is complete and total bullshit.

Waste the post and let's hear how insane your logic is.

[leftofcool]

126. Sorry kiddo, you will have to educate yourself

[jsmirman]

133. Oh, that is complete bullcrap. You have nothing.

Post something or get bent.

Seriously, if there's one thing the mods should crack down on, it's these posts that refuse to engage on an issue and just keep saying the same shit over and over again, without a shred of logical support. It's horse crap.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

135. Duck and cover... because you have nothing.

[1monster]

242. It's about respect. It is possible to disagree heatedly with another party and

still practice courtesy and respect.

Example of how NOT to behave?

BlueDogDemocratNH just wrote upthread, "HEAR THEM BORE. Please take your preening sense of Boomer entitlement and be gone."

There he not only disrespected women as a whole, he disrepected a whole generation too.

Of course BlueDogDemocratNH (BLUE dog????) is male and obviously ignorant about the fight for women's rights.

When I was a kid, the only acceptable options for women were wife/mother, nurse, waitress (if you were lower class), nun, or teacher.

It was the "Beat Generation" and the "Baby Boomers" who changed that. And today we have ignoramouses who sneer and tell us to be gone. :eyes:

[philk17088]

281. Not be gone but

you are entitled to nothing because of your gender or generation.

[1monster]

302. Everyone is entitled to respect. Even you who seem to not have any for anyone.

[rodeodance]

91. because I do not live in the Obama bubble like you do. Educate yourself as what is happening.

[jgraz]

96. Yes, you live in the rodeodance bubble

You know, the one where anyone actually cares what you have to say.

[jsmirman]

119. Her post has all her hallmarks- abuse of the english language and nothing beyond a subject line

the subject is always nonsensical and the support isn't even nonexistent- there's never anything in the message body. Because none of what she posts makes any sense.

[rodeodance]

156. ah such a sweet wittle bully you are. bye bye

[jsmirman]

177. Does anyone have more posts with nothing but a nonsensical subject line than you?

Just wondering.

[Moochy]

191. I try

but don't even come close... :cry:

[dchill]

131. Exactly.

Too bad they don't/won't/can't see through the act.

[Life Long Dem]

84. Oh, get real.

Your all sounding like a bunch of whining sore sports. And bah hah... the Obama supporters said something... so i won't vote. Like I said get real.

[cascadiance]

300. The "depth" of your responses here basically prove my point!

as well as others here... That this isn't about championing women's issues, but insuring that your "Goddess" or some MYSTERIOUS facsimile is elected which you don't seem to want to elaborate on.

Since you can't seem to come up with any issues that you are concerned about here in any sort of substantive detail, I think I can go on assuming that my original premise here is right. That you are all into "Hillary or the highway" way of thinking without thinking of really WHY you are voting for/supporting her.

And no, Obama wasn't my first choice. In fact he was probably my fourth choice behind people like Feingold, Gore, and Edwards. But he is AMERICA'S choice now, and he does seem to me to be a reasonable and helluva better option than McCain. Now if you guys are going to continue this and SCREW America with four years of McCain (and perhaps a supreme court that will throw out Roe v. Wade to boot!) by continuing this pointless battle just to keep a Dem out to get Hillary in office in 2012, then I'm sorry, but I don't have ANY sympathy for you when Obama gets the nomination. You in my book are WORSE than Nader supporters in battleground states in 2000.

As I said, I and I believe MANY Obama supporters are strong supporters for just about all women's rights issues, and we won't let Obama avoid his responsibility in supporting them. I don't see any evidence that many Dems that aren't in the Hillary camp are NOT concerned about women's issues.

I am more concerned about what perpetuating the corporatocracy status quo that Hillary will have us endure during any reign she might be given with this office that I find far more evidence for her likely doing than any unique positions on women's rights that other candidates don't have. And that issue affects just about every other issue, the Iraq War, outsourcing, health care, education, global warming, oil prices, etc. Just "being a woman" doesn't do it for me or most others in the Democratic Party either... We need more than that to annoint her as our leader.

[Jim Sagle]

114. Sure he'll listen...sweetie.

[Raejeanowl]

159. Word!!! n/t

[DesEtoiles]

49. Women like Michelle Obama and her daughters?

[hendo]

58. it is sad

that you feel compelled to lump all women with a sore loser like hrc.

[jgraz]

69. They already have gotten loud. And most of them chose Obama.

You really need to check your demographics, sweetie.

[havocmom]

76. BINGO! Older white woman here & working for the DEM nominee

and DEM candidates for Congress. Because THAT will help women more than the silly tantrums of a bellicose minority.

[leftofcool]

90. Yep, just about half

[jgraz]

108. Actually, I have a lot more faith in women than you do.

I don't think they're a bunch of immature, whining little girls who need rubber pants before they can sit on the furniture. I think most of them will act like the mature, sane, intelligent adults they are and get behind our nominee.

As for the other ones, apparently you've been elected their leader. Congratulations.

[leftofcool]

129. You really don't have a clue do you?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

137. Dupe.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

138. Spell it out for us.

[jgraz]

140. Ah, the rhetorical equivalent of throwing the gun after you've run out of bullets

Looks like my work here is done. Nighty-night!

[Carolina]

259. don't paint with such a BROAD brush... record

numbers of women support Obama, and some simply support anybody but HRC.

[StevieM]

367. Don't disenfranchise me. I'm a man, I love Hillary and my voice is about to get pretty loud too. eom

[shadowknows69]

405. About 90% of the women I know are loudly supporting Obama

[Raineyb]

441. Really?

Because last I checked Obama was getting 90+% of the black vote.

That does include women in case you didn't know.

Regards

[ampad]

14. Really, if that is true

That she has so many supporters that need to be "placated" they why is her campaign in debt. Who's campaign is it raising record number of dollars from small donors? The reality is that the sensible Hillary supporters know the game is up and are ready to support the nominee. Those who are not ready or will never be ready are few and far between and we really don't have to kiss their ass to get them motivated. If your civil rights and reproductive rights are less important than your hurt feeling of not getting the candidate you want then there is no hope for you. No amount of kissing up is going to get these people to vote for Obama.

[leftofcool]

29. "No amount of kissing up is going to get these people to vote for Obama. "

For many thousands of female Dems, you are exactly right

[Forkboy]

38. Oh well.

The Dems will win, with or without the few remaining holdouts in November.

[jgraz]

78. Cool. I hope they enjoy their last few months of reproductive autonomy

Cuz I guarantee you, if McCain gets elected because of petulant female Democrats, no amount of whining is going to get me to raise a finger when they overturn Roe.

[1monster]

249. You know what. I wasn't a Hillary supporter. Nor an Obama supporter.

And I will vote for the Dem.nominee in November.

But you people make me sick.

I wish Skinner, Elad, and EarlG had never allowed GD:P to degnerate into what it has become.

It cannot be shut down soon enough.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msallied]

62. Translation:

Waaaahhhhhhh!

[tritsofme]

146. Darn I wish I could see the deleted post above you.

Those are always the most fun.

[Life Long Dem]

72. And they are nothing but a buch of whining sore sports n/t

[dchill]

125. Three more days.

:hi:

[StevieM]

365. Unfortunately, the DU mods won't be banning us. Obama's "victory" won't be recognized.

See you in Denver!

Steve

[mkultra]

180. yes we can.

[JeanGrey]

223. Of course they can! Do you REALLY think that Barack

is going to lose because Hillary supporters are mad? Oh please.

[tritsofme]

255. Historically, Democrats have shown a propensity to abandon their candidate and contribute to huge

GOP landslides.

Its happened in the past, its not too far fetched that it could happen again.

[JeanGrey]

341. It isn't happening. If Hillary wants "healing" she needs to start

by acknowledging she has lost and stop her divisive ridiculous efforts.

[shaniqua6392]

274. The keys to the White House are in Hillary's purse.

You have raised some great points tritsofme! Thinking Obama can win as we stab Clinton's supporters in the back is just arrogant. Everyone had better be ready for a group hug and shut their friggin mouths if they want to win.

[bjobotts]

282. Yeah, I keep forgetting they're not part of the democratic party

[bjobotts]

284. We ask that those wanting to serve us pay till we pick one. How dare they ask to be reimbursed.

[Ken Burch]

291. Your side doesn't want to be placated. Your side wants the progressive wing of the party

to just surrender and hand the nom to your candidate even though she's clearly been rejected by the party.

Why can't you accept that you've had your shot and your candidate didn't make it?

Why can't you accept that it would do too much damage to us to IMPOSE her as nominee when the party's clearly voted against her?

[iamthebandfanman]

311. that wisdom should apply both ways...

this isnt the ge, you cant lose the prize and tell the winners to fuck off.

[tritsofme]

320. Doesn't really work both ways.

Its up to the winner of the nomination to make sure he wins the GE.

The losers have other options should they choose.

[Texas Hill Country]

397. bravo

[babylonsister]

3. Good post, and you've got my attention. Rec'd. Why indeed. It's over! nt

[Hoof Hearted]

4. You are totally fucked without us, that's why.

Next question.

[K Gardner]

8. We're fucked WITH you. Vote for McCain, he deserves you.

[rodeodance]

48. HA HA you will get him also.

[havocmom]

79. Nope. We outnumber you and lots of GOP voters are coming along too

PLUS all the new people coming into the system.

Delusions may be fun, for a while, but they are not ballots.

[Hoof Hearted]

89. You are correct about delusions.

McGovern had them too. Looks like it's a habit too difficult for him to break.

[cali]

168. no, sorry. that's a poor comparison.

2008 is not 1972. The differences are marked.

[jsmirman]

120. This is the most fucked up pursuit of female equality and rights I have seen - EVER

unreal.

[DesEtoiles]

54. damn straight

[jgraz]

81. Exactly. After all, they did their chosen candidate SOOOO much good with their support

McCain is welcome to them. :puke:

[babylonsister]

12. Cool, So by next week, you're voting for McCain. At least now we know.

So go... away.

[havocmom]

15. Do you seriously believe ALL who voted for HRC in primaries will boycot if we don't give them candy?

Hell, lots of HRC voters in California would have voted against her if they knew then what they know now.

There are very few noisy egos who will boycott or vote McCain. They will be outnumbered by all the new people who are coming into the process and all the former Republicans who have had enough of bush and won't go for bush II known as McCain, nor sit this one out.

Bellicose does not equal a big enough force to actually do much. If a real force to be contended with was there, bellicose would not be necessary.

Sorry, we have tried nice for a couple weeks now and HRC's 29%ers didn't take the hint. Now, we just have to accept that some people will just not face facts. Not unlike bush's 2922%.

Sorry, you aren't big enough to totally fuck the rest of the nation.

[leftofcool]

34. "Sorry, you aren't big enough to totally fuck the rest of the nation."

This should go out to all womens groups immediately. Start with the NOW and work your way down

[havocmom]

36. Card carrying member of NOW myself

You do not own women. Get that out while you're at it.

[leftofcool]

44. Did I say that?

I think I said, send them that statement and all other groups as well

[hendo]

60. I think havoc was agreeing with you. n/t

[havocmom]

73. ah, NO. havoc was saying women are not a herd to be led by a few egos with delusions of grandure

and most of us who have fought for issues essential to equality in this nation are not gonna be bullied into going along with the 29%ers who think HRC gets to be the boss of all of us. A few high profile woman may come out and say really rash things about not supporting the DEM nominee, but rank and file? Nope. Not gonna sit this one out.

[hendo]

288. sorry, I must have missed that n/t

[havocmom]

63. Implied threat was that it mattered to millions of women that I don't like the tactics

Threat is hollow and we both know it. I am a feminist and a humanist. Always have been. Women are not a herd led by some bellicose bullies who are not dealing well with reality that HRC has lost and the nominee will be someone else. Most real feminist will NOT vote McCain nor sit this one out. And we both know that too.

[leftofcool]

66. I think that remains to be seen

[mcctatas]

116. And voting for McCain promotes feminism how exactly?

I know this over simplifies the issue, but seriously, think! I will cast my vote in November for the candidate most likely to advance womens issues, and his name sure as hell isn't John McCain!!! :grr:

feminism

Main Entry: fem·i·nism
Pronunciation: \ˈfe-mə-ˌni-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1895
1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests
— fem·i·nist \-nist\ noun or adjective
— fem·i·nis·tic \ˌfe-mə-ˈnis-tik\ adjective

[jsmirman]

123. Because losing the right to choose = feminism

oh, no, that's right, pursuit of a course that leads to that equals flat out retardation.

[jbnow]

301. As a femimist I know that feminism is: Belief in the

social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.

But I keep seeing it being used as it being wrong to support a male over a female and claiming betrayal when they don't whether it's Kennedy or NARAL. That's what I don't understand.

I am a white, middle aged woman and I do not understand. I have read through this thread hoping to see some explanation. I think the askers have been rude. There has been a lot of rudeness

[jgraz]

87. Of course, you mean WHITE women's groups, don't you?

The rest seem just fine with Obama.

[leftofcool]

94. The ones I am aware of are fairly mixed

lots of various ethnic groups

[jgraz]

97. I believe you, really I do.

:eyes:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

143. Yes. Wreak havoc. How fucking old are you? 8?

[Gore1FL]

147. You might want to leave NARAL off your mailing list

and save a stamp.

[cali]

169. you and others promoting McCainiac over Obama will be gone

soon enough. You can go over to some pathetic hilly group and try to elect McCainiac from there. It won't work. And in November, you'll have to choke out the words President Barack Obama.

[tnlefty]

203. Why? Would you actually try to encourage women and women's

groups to 'fuck the nation', as in fuck it over royally? If that in your intention, than I want no part of it and I would be appalled by such petty, vindictive behavior.

[aasleka]

241. Isn't that sexist to assume because women or women's groups are women they would support Hillary?

You make it sound like they are simply supporting Hillary because she is female, not because of her ideals, policies or accomplishments; that really sounds sexist to me.

[Zhade]

55. Same for Ohio. She'd likely lose now, since her lie about NAFTA has since been revealed.

NT!

[rodeodance]

85. yeah, we know and OHIO knows all about Obama'a lies and nafta.

[dchill]

136. Yet another snappy one-liner.

It's sad that you've bought the whole load - it's obviously driving you nuts. Hey, guess what! Tomorrow I can start saying, "Two more days!"

:crazy::eyes:

[gal]

352. Ohio knows it was Clinton that lied on nafta.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DesEtoiles]

50. Michelle Obama is every bit as strong and smart as Hillary Clinton

[Hoof Hearted]

399. Since you chose to bring her up, Michelle is a small, sour and petty woman

Who does not have the dignity, strength or creds in her entire life that Senator Clinton has in one little pinkie. Thank goodness after this season Michelle will never have to be bothered with the rigors of the campaign trail again.

[haymakeragain]

426. I detect a note of...........

racism. Am I right about that? Michelle is just a bitter black woman who isn't fit to be discussed in the same breath as Hillarious? The Hillarious campaign is dropping all kinds of "hard-working white voters" bullshit, what exactly are you dropping here? Is it that woman have issues but not Michelle Obama, she's doesn't have issues with America like Hillary does and she should just shut up? Let me ask you, do black women have the same issues, complaints, disappointments as white women, or are they different and not as important?

You Hillarians are always talking about color, is there something about color in your comment?

[DesEtoiles]

51. yawn - go back to watching Fried Green Tomatoes for the 50th time

[Hoof Hearted]

124. I'm curious as to what demographic you intend to insult with that remark.

Please tell us.

[mcctatas]

141. Hell...

now I'm pissed, I love that movie! (common ground has been reached;) )

[Prophet 451]

347. People who like bad movies?

(Sorry, I hated that film)

[dchill]

142. OK, NormaR, now you just cut it out!

I've always loved that movie, but you've just deepened it's meaning for me - not to mention its hillarity!
:rofl:

[Hoof Hearted]

158. Since it fills you with such joviality, I'm sure you can explain it to the rest of us.

What exactly was the intended insult?

[dchill]

198. No insult intended whatsoever.

The movie, Fried Green Tomatoes, IIRC, deals with "getting rid" of an abusive male figure. I sincerely find NormaR's comment hilarious, and maybe you would, too, if you thought about it.

[Hoof Hearted]

227. I don't know if your interpretation is naive or generous so I'm going to assume you are generous.

As I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt.



I speak of NormaR's comment, not the movie, BTW.

[dchill]

247. I don't need the benefit of your doubt.

NormaR's comment is funny. I complimented her on it. I'm trying to be generous, here, too.

[Zhade]

52. A few dozen petulant online whiners isn't going to stop Obama from winning.

NT!

[rodeodance]

67. you need to educate yourself about this issue before you spout off again and look foolish.

[Darth_Kitten]

192. Her faith in Obama gives her strength to weather all...........

:eyes: Don't disturb her deluded hero-worship. Her God will prove himself a mere mortal one day. :rofl:

[DS1]

248. Your ego must fight Rush's ego for oxygen way up there in the stratosphere

[Darth_Kitten]

190. But your petulant and childish attitude might.......

No wonder people will want to stay home.

[BlueCaliDem]

360. Only the ignorant and self-possessed will stay home...

... because their feelings got hurt.

The rest of us will do whatever it takes to get a Democrat into the WH because our stung egos and sore feelings can be set aside long enough when eyeing the dire importance of what hangs in the balance - THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES and all the progressive rights we've fought so hard for.

I hate voting for Diane Feinstein, my State's Senator. She's so conservative and so aligned with the Republicans that I'm still flabbergasted why no one has called her on all her votes that always tend to sway across the aisle.

But until another Democrat steps up to the plate, I'll hold my nose and vote for her. If I can do it for the greater good of our Party's power in Congress, why is it so friggin hard for Hillary supporters to do the same without being wined and dined?

[Window]

178. LOL! The damned Republicans don't even want McWar.

[krabigirl]

199. Well, our whole country is fucked if you vote for McCain.

[Name removed]

201. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

244. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hoof Hearted]

334. Is that the politics of hope? or unity you're spreading there?

[chefgirl]

256. That may or may not be so

Seems to me that what all you disenchanted Hillary supporters, who are threatening to vote McCain, are losing sight of is that WE'RE ALL FUCKED WITH McCAIN.

Wake Up!

-chef-

[Hoof Hearted]

337. Reading comprehension. It's the latest craze. Show where I threatened to vote McCain please.

But since we are on the subject........

Like hell am I going to vote for a candidate who fights to disenfranchise millions of American voters.
Like hell am I going to vote for a candidate who in throwing his grandma under the bus as a"typical white person."displays his own racial prejudice against a large portion of the country.
Like hell am I going to vote for a candidate who, in a calculated move, goes on a traveling revival show with people who think my gay friends need to be "cured" with prayer.
Like hell am I going to vote for a candidate who's wife was never proud of her country till her husband graced us all with his presence on the campaign trail and would have to "think about it" before voting for the Democratic nominee of the party, unless it's her husband.
Like hell am I going to vote for a candidate who is so narcissistic he explains away people who don't vote for him as "bitter", and then proceeds to explain that they are all a bunch of backwards, uber-religious racist hicks.

I won't vote for McCain, but like hell am I ever going to vote for Barack Obama.

[rucky]

384. But you wouldn't be?

[mcctatas]

11. I think for the most part Hillary the candidate is in her last throes...

that being said, while she has pulled from pretty dickish moves throughout the entire process, I refuse to hold her responsible for some of the vile shit seen on the peptobismol pink site, rumors about Michelle Obama disseminated through places like townhall and freeperland or even the more vile things found right here on DU (and I'm sure there are a few you can think of;) ). Once Barack wins the nomination they will either disappear into the ether, be consolidated back into Little Green Footballs or come to their senses. It won't be long now:)

[crankychatter]

17. kicked for being more courteous than I can manage to be now - n/t

.

[emilyg]

18. Such a unifying post. I feel the love.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftofcool]

26. Well, 48% of use are indeed sick..........ROFLMAO

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mcctatas]

150. Oh snap....

:rofl:

[ima_sinnic]

202. "48%" my frikkin ass --0.48% MAYBE

I mean, look how many showed up for the Gigundus Pot & Pan Rally in NYC, where normally thousands can be rallied at the drop of a hat :rofl:

the sulky, pouty, vote extortionists are deluded freeptards who are sore because the repuke is now forced to run against Obama instead of easy-pickings hillary.

[ima_sinnic]

251. if it's so many, why is hillary BROKE? don't you MILLIONS & MILLIONS of "supporters" ever send $$?

[emilyg]

32. Connect with kindness and love

you can do it.

[NJSecularist]

19. And you wonder why alot of Hillary supporters won't vote for your candidate?

Have fun when your candidate is back in the Senate and is as irrelevant as a white freshman senator with no legislative accomplishments after he loses the election by 200 electoral votes.

[kenny blankenship]

25. Not sure why someone like you who works actively for the defeat of our party is allowed to post here

If I were you I would erase that vile hateful Republican shit you just sprayed on our forum, and I don't mean your latest locked thread.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kenny blankenship]

41. He really gets under your ...uh...skin... doesn't he?

[NJSecularist]

53. No, actually he doesn't.

But for his biggest supporters to deny this obvious truth.... that gets under my skin, no question about it.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

151. No shit. Nothing from that poster has any hint of democratic ideals.

Why this a-hole is still with us is beyond me.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

37. You'll probably flip-flop back to him in November.

Like you did before.

[LeFleur1]

39. But You See

If Obama loses it will be the fault of the Hillary Supporters. Obama's people already laid the groundwork. They are never, never going to admit he didn't win (if he doesn't) because people didn't think he'd make a good president. They will say he didn't win because "Hillary's supporters" didn't vote for him. They won't take responsibility for backing a loser. Watch.

[leftofcool]

98. That is exactly right

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shellgame26]

362. Yea!

You found a friend!

[jgraz]

103. Wow, good job laying the groundwork for deflecting blame from your destruction of the party

Seriously, who do you think is buying your bullshit?

[leftofcool]

110. But didn't you just say that a few disgruntled women

wouldn't make a difference? If they won't make a difference, then how can they be blamed for an Obama loss? You can't have this both ways.

[jgraz]

112. I didn't say you'd be successful at it, just that you don't want to accept blame for it

I suspect you'll be just as successful as you were at inflicting your craptastic candidate on the rest of us.

[leftofcool]

130. LMAO

[haymakeragain]

427. What hogwash. How's hillobeans gonna win exactly?

That is what will piss off the Obama supporters, the fact that you gotta steal it to get it, so if you do manage to crowbar it away from him, it'll be by hook or by crook. so, yeah, expect some blowback.

[D23MIURG23]

93. Have fun being identified as the next generation of Naderite then.

[dchill]

145. Stop demeaning the term "Secularist".

Crawl back in your hole. Say hi to Sean, Rush, Bill-o, Ann, et al for me!

[cali]

171. Obama will win the presidency. You're vastly inflating the number

of dems who won't vote for him. Anyone paying attention knows that. He'll win handily over McCainiac. Can't wait to see hateful heads explode when he does.

[VotesForWomen]

424. bookmarking. you are vastly inflating the # of indies and repugs who will vote for O by the time nov

rolls around.

[aasleka]

243. Obama has written more legislation in one year than Hillary has in 6

I think Hillary just needs more funds, have you tapped out your 2,300 yet?

[StevieM]

375. I doubt he will get 169 Electoral Votes. I think he'll win Hawaii, Vermont and DC. And lose Illinois

This is a disaster waiting to happen. And the Obama people will just turn around and blame Hillary.

You know....at least McGovern was a nice guy. Obama isn't even a good person IMO.

Steve

[Hoof Hearted]

395. Everything you just said sounds exactly correct.

[haymakeragain]

429. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Are you Series!!!!!!

Yeah, that prediction of vermont, Hawaii, and DC is right on the money. Would you mind explaining those three wins for me? I understand your racist connection with DC, but explain Hawaii and Vermont for me will ya Rush?

[StevieM]

443. Wow, now saying that Obama will win DC is racist?

This is so pathetic. I really don't know what else to say at this point.

Steve

[VotesForWomen]

425. word. i think the Obamites are in for a big dose of reality if he gets the nom. nt

[haymakeragain]

428. I don't believe you could possibly

be more full of shit. Can you try for me, I want to see how bloated you can appear? Hawaii, Vermont, and DC? How'd you even come up with that? That's fucking hillarious. Oops, I meant Hillarious.

[StevieM]

442. I don't even understand your point. Are you saying that if there was a landslide that

those wouldn't be the three places most likely to still go for Obama? Do you think NY is more solid then Vermont (which elected Bernie Sanders, and where Howard Dean will probably invest a lot of resources)? Or California more solid then Hawaii (where Obama grew up)?

I was predicting a landslide loss. That's not being "full of s**t," it's a prediction, which may or may not come to fruition.

Steve

[qijackie]

20. You're all so full of hate. May you get the President you deserve.

[jgraz]

104. We will. And, lucky for you, you'll get much better than you deserve.

[StevieM]

444. Yep, all of us Hillary-backers are bad human beings who don't deserve a good president.

Not that it matters--Obama won't win.

Oh well, at least McCain will only look to serve one term.

Steve

[democrattotheend]

21. I'm an Obama supporter, and I don't see how this is helpful

If the tables were turned, a post like this would make me so mad I'd be really tempted not to vote for her in November.

I went through this with Dean in 2004, and I can tell you that it's painful. It takes a while to come around to a candidate you've been busy running against. I am worried about hard feelings lasting longer than usual this year, because of the length of the primary season and the identity politics involved. I am worried that some women feel slighted, right or wrong, and we really need to be sensitive about that.

[leftofcool]

27. You are right, it isn't helpful

but this won't stop. You are right to be concerned about women not voting this election

[NanceGreggs]

101. I must have missed the meeting ...

... where you were elected the voice of all women.

And BTW, I would have voted against.

[leftofcool]

102. I didn't say I was the voice of all women

I said there was a reason for concern, but no one is suggesting that you worry about it.

[jgraz]

105. Your concern is noted.

:eyes:

[NanceGreggs]

106. Believe me, I'm not worried.

A few Hill campers - who insist on actually being the stereotype of the petulant woman who stamps her feet and slams the door when she doesn't get what she wants - does not a movement make.

[leftofcool]

111. You keep believing that

I know you need to

[NanceGreggs]

117. Yeah, hm mm, whatever.

Don't look now, but I'm not the one clinging to the delusion that vast numbers of women voters are going to march, like Stepford Wives, away from the party or the polls if they don't get their own way.

Ironic that the ones who are always talking about women's equality are the same ones who think all women think alike, act alike, and should support the same candidate.

[rodeodance]

80. Thank you.

[KaptBunnyPants]

217. Should we pretend that Hillary really is a victim?

That seems to be the only thing her supporters really want to hear. They want us to say that Obama played the "race" card, that if Obama had won Florida and Michigan the DNC would have certified the results, and that by winning the "big states" Hillary really does have a valid claim to the nomination. These arguments are dishonest, and it is patronizing to do anything but hold them to the same standards I would hold any person. If they choose to aid McCain, then let them go from this place and call themselves Democrats no longer. I was a Dean supporter as well. When he lost, I supported Kerry full heartedly. Just as I supported Obama after Edwards lost, and Edwards after Kucinich failed to get off the ground. I expected Hillary to win this primary before it started, and I was prepared to support her as well even though I have strong ideological differences with the DLC faction she and her husband lead. This is a coalition; if they are unwilling to support the team just because it's not their turn to lead they shouldn't be here.

[mcg]

261. nor do I, winners also need to be realistic,

or they can turn into losers. We don't want to lose the GE.
Obama supporters are not the ENTIRE democratic party, Clinton
supporters are a big part of the Democratic party. To suggest
otherwise is foolish.

The fact is, Obama needs the support of Clinton supporters.

Edwards and Obama both showed class with Edwards' endorsement
speed for Obama. Edwards started with good words for Hillary Clinton.
Obama seemed to approve and motioned to some of his supporters
who were booing to chill. They both showed political smarts and
were respectful.

It seems to me that Obama did some negotiating with Edwards
to get his endorsement. It wouldn't surprise me if he does
the same with Clinton, and that would be fine with me.

[ampad]

22. We don't have to and we shouldn't

You would think these people would behave as adults and face reality but as you said many of them are behaving like spoiled children. Most Americans have more important issues to worry about other than Hillary and her supporters hurt feelings that she did not win. There is a mark difference between McCain and Obama and those that vote for McCain over Obama because of Hillary were never true dems in the first place. I refuse to kiss the ass of a repig pretending to be a dem. Also, you got people egging this shit on on the DU, people who don't even have a dog in this race. Those people do not have Hillary supporters best interest at heart because when the chips fall they will not be the ones without health-care or a pot to piss in. I cannot wait for this to be all over and for the weeding out process to begin on DU and in the real world. There are people out there who would like you to believe that they are true dems but their hate is too strong to hide.

[leftofcool]

23. Hillary supporter here.....does not need or want to be placated

but thank you anyway.

[DU GrovelBot]

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This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
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[BenDavid]

35. No one has won anything, yet. You do not need to appease us

in any way, shape, form or fashion. We will be just fine, and thank you for your consideration, but I thought the goal in here for 4 years was to win the next presidential election, and not to make a point.

[Zhade]

57. Yet. Just a few delegates away, though.

Enjoy supporting our nominee Obama!

[rodeodance]

40. YOU ARE one acting like spoiled 4yr. olds having a tantrum"!! Grow up--this the primary season

[HowHasItComeToThis]

64. OUT DAMN SPOT

[rodeodance]

65. *WHAT A CRY-BABY you are. Get out of the kitchen if the heat is too hot for you. WIMP!!

[Forkboy]

75. IMMATURE NAME CALLING! The wonderder of it. SHAME!!111!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

149. More hypocrisy. Who could have seen that coming?

:eyes:

[mac2]

68. They would do the same for Obama and his losers if it was

to be.

[lligrd]

99. No They Wouldn't nt

[mac2]

107. You don't know that.

The party needs all the voters it can get.

[lligrd]

70. They'll Get No Placating From Me nt

[mac2]

77. The President threatened the country with another 911

attack if Democrats won the election. Impeach him. That fear mongering traitor of a President. He may be involved in all those disasters.

[lligrd]

100. Ok nt

[TexanDem]

71. you sound like a lunatic! But let me join in and say DITTO DITTO DITTO!!!

[TexasObserver]

83. a wise, old Democrat once told me how this goes in primary fights

He was part of Texas progressives nearly 40 years ago, and he had many years of fighting the conservative Democrats in Texas, who were DINOs. He told me "son, when you get them down, just keep putting it to them!!"

Kiss their asses? Not where I come from.

[D23MIURG23]

88. Fucking-A

[TLM]

113. Is an extension of their arrogant sense of entitlement...

Even when they've lost, they think they should be treated as if they won, and catered too.

They do not yet understand that their time is over.

That's how our government was designed... to facilitate bloodless revolution when things got to a point where enough people said, not this time.

We are witnessing history... and not the black or female president history. Rather the history we are witnessing, is the blowing of the release valve that makes american democracy work. Most people are fed up with the current aristocracy that's been handing power back and forth for 20 years.

What the die hard clinton followers don't seem to realize is that an entire generation of voters has grown to adulthood under these two families, and they're sick of it. They see the pictures of bill and bush sr out golfing and having a swell time. They know this is a rigged game. They want to end it, to break this cycle. Why do the young voters so overwhelmingly favor Obama, because they've grown up under 20 years of clinton/bush.

Obama could win, on nothing more than the fact he's not a Clinton or a Bush.

The republican party is in shambles, and their nominee inspires noone. McCain is like Reagan, only older and a much worse actor.

[dorktv]

174. Um...you do remember that President Clinton came from nothing

he got where he was by virtue of hard work and effort (helped by the wife of course) so to say that he is aristocracy is kind of um...wrong.

[Carolina]

264. True, but he changed or forgot his origins

Unlike Jimmy Carter, for example, who also came from humble beginnings but after the White House, returned to his home state from whence he has done good deeds worldwide, the Clintons continued their power quest by carpetbagging to NY so HRC could run for Senate and use it as a launching pad to get THEM back in the White House. Plus Bill seems to revel in spending time with George HW Bush. What gives with that???!!!

Again, Jimmy Carter never hobnobed with the likes of the Bushes. How telling.

[TLM]

333. Where he came from doesn't change what he's become....

[Diane R]

121. Fabulous OP. Remember, Hillary said, "It's not over 'til the lady in the pantsuit says it's over".

[bigtree]

122. they don't

But, you shouldn't assume their participation is as shallow as you make it out to be. Voters expect the person they vote for to represent them. They need to be convinced. If you want their vote you will need to convince them. If you don't care about their vote you can just ignore them as you suggest.

Oh, and there were 17 million or so of them who voted for Hillary Clinton in this race -- a fraction of that total here on DU who are subject to your tough love. I'd suggest you treat every vote as important.

[Beacool]

127. Errrr.....................

maybe because unlike those who you mentioned she has 49% of the Democratic vote and supporters who are as loyal to her as Obama's supporters are loyal to him?

Throw Hillary and her supporters under the bus at your own peril.

[jgraz]

144. Nope, we'll just chuck out the few little children intent on throwing their pants-wetting tantrums

Pray tell, which group are you in?

[AntiFascist]

309. Obama doesn't have to do anything...

except continue what he does so well. He won't throw Clinton under the bus, but he may not ask her to be his running mate either. Hillary has already affirmed that she will support the Democratic nominee and many of her followers will do likewise. The ones who are so bent out of shape can stay home or turn Republican. The way things are going, McCain's chances look very slim.

[Name removed]

139. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

153. BC her supporters are half of the party.

[roseBudd]

154. Actually they are not, if CA could vote today they go for Obama, HRC has alienated many

google it

[anonymous171]

155. Holy shit! Not helpful.

[SoCalDem]

160. Because she annointed herself Queen

[JohnnyLib2]

161. Maybe you can watch and listen as Obama deals with the Hillary faction.

He has a vested interest and will probably do a better job than your OP
can.
:banghead:

[mcg]

262. Obama is smarter than many of his supporters. nt

[Prophet 451]

350. Gods, I hope so

I'd like to think that both Hillary and Obama were significantly brighter than their supporters. We've seen what happens when a candidate isn't...

[VotesForWomen]

162. maybe cuz she's got almost half the democratic votes, and the ones she's got are in big, battlegroun

battleground states. but hey, if you don't mind losing the GE, i don't suppose you need to bother 'placating' her.

[eridani]

165. Because they are Democrats? n/t

[Perry Logan]

172. Obama/McCain 237 - 290; Clinton/McCain 280 - 241

[totodeinhere]

186. Any prediction like that this far out from the election is totally meaningless.

[ElboRuum]

336. Consulting a Magic 8-Ball is no way to decide an election...

Just sayin'

[haymakeragain]

431. Hillobeans crushes McCain but cannot beat Obama?

What gives?

[WinkyDink]

173. "Hillary claims herself to be as smart, tough, and capable as any man,"

Excuse me, but who made men the standard by whch women are measured? Don't make me laugh. Have you seen the world lately? I'd say men ought to look to women as THEIR standard.

[TBF]

175. Yes, I'm an Obama supporter and I was deeply offended by that line.

Hillary as smart, tough, and capable as any man? I don't support her but I would be honest enough to say she is smarter, tougher, and more capable than most men and women.

The contest is essentially over and we should be working towards reconciliation, but this type of inflammatory, misogynist language is not going to help matters any.

[Darth_Kitten]

193. LOL.........

What a slam to poor Hillary. ;) :sarcasm:

Seriously though, you are right.

[KittyWampus]

394. Hillary did when she did shots w/beer chasers & talked guns. We all know she was trying to be butch

Just like when she voted for the war, she wanted to be seen as tough just like the boys.

[sufrommich]

179. Perhaps because "the entire democratic party"

did not vote for Obama in the primaries?

[Hoof Hearted]

234. Wow. So you noticed that too? Amazing isn't it?

They claim to be such great scholars of math, and yet this simple problem they can't seem to figure out.

[haymakeragain]

432. So what do you want?

Will an ice cream help?

[Chalco]

182. It's simple. Because there are so many of us.

When Huckabee pulled out his supporter didn't have to be appeased, he didn't have that many. Clinton has half. That's huge. Do the math.

[jbm]

184. I don't want to be placated..

Trust me, there's not a damn thing you could do to placate me anyway. I'm pissed, and justifiably so. Hillary Clinton has devoted her whole life to public service, and she's been insulted, disrespected, and accused of everything in the book.

When Edwards endorsed Obama, Edwards was very respectful of Hillary. While I would have preferred he endorse Hillary, his approach didn't offend me. When he mentioned Hillary, the Obama people booed. That was immature and rude, but I wouldn't have held Obama responsible for the behavior of his supporters. However, after about three seconds of pretending to contain the boos, Obama gave up and laughed about it. Say what you will, but Hillary Clinton would never have laughed had the roles been reversed. That is one example in hundreds of why I have no use or respect for the people who will claim to be representing the top of the Democratic party this year. There's nothing you could possibly do that would make me support immature, inexperienced, bullies, and to be honest, the thought that placating me would somehow make a difference is insulting.

[Carolina]

266. what crap

"Hillary Clinton has devoted her whole life to public service."

HRC is concerned with power, pure and simple. Always has been, always will be.

[Olney Blue]

305. One could argue that anyone seeking the presidency is concerned with power.

[highplainsdem]

187. It isn't "placating" -- it's building a coalition with an equally strong Democratic leader.

You don't ignore a primary opponent who gets roughly as many votes and delegates. Not if you want to win in November.

She isn't throwing a tantrum, but you clearly are.

And you're clearly a sexist

Hillary claims herself to be as smart, tough, and capable as any man, why can't she take her ass-whipping and lose like a man?

which explains much of your Hillary-hatred.

[stlsaxman]

307. I have yet to see the slightest interest in "coalition building" from HRC.

It's all about Her winning. She doesn't even feign negotiating from a position of power. She wants all the power.

She's acting like she believes the office is her due.

[DesEtoiles]

188. .

[Darth_Kitten]

189. Say goodbye to the base and what are you left with?

:eyes:

[Catherina]

196. You're the base now?

:rofl:

The base spoke and whooped your ass.

[ima_sinnic]

204. hahahaha--the "base"--a bunch of whiny, petulant sore loser ignoramuses

in case you haven't noticed, HillBilly's disapproval is at about 60%, and that was before it started trash-talking fellow Democrats.

If you're the fucking "base," why is it bleeding superdelegates? Wouldn't the SDs be wise enough to see where "the base" is?

"Base" :rofl:

[DeschutesRiver]

194. Agree with the OP

I mean, I do hope to see a democrat in office, and not to have a Gore or Kerry repeat.

If dems don't just move on about this, then we have another 4 years repub, fact. At this point, I don't really care, to tell the truth - I won't spend a dime or a minute of my time "placating" people in order to get Obama elected. I am simply tired of people acting like small kids. Maybe they need another four year time out. If so, so be it.

This is the the real world - if tantrums continue to be thrown, and if people take them seriously, then I will look ahead to 2012, and not get all whipped up that the democrats again are saying they want to win the WH, but behaving as though this were not a real contest with real consequences. As an independent, I saw give me your best candidate, who is Obama, and let the road show between him and McCain begin. And back him up. I've seen plenty of Hillary as VP nonsense - that will be another GE non-starter (and if she is smart, she won't be even remotely interested in imposing herself on Obama this way. Unless this is just about a personal power grab for her, which is what I suspect, but with which others disagree. We'll see).

I think this time there is a great chance that dems will be able to find the resolve to STFU about Hill, put her in the same category as others who withdrew from the race, and make a democratic win happen. But only because I am hoping that this time around the tantrum throwers are just a very vocal minority. I personally am not even opening any threads that appear to be crying about not getting the results they wanted in this race (if I can tell from the header). I want progress, not regression.

[Aloha Spirit]

195. This thread makes me hate myself

for supporting the same candidate as you.

[sfam]

197. It would be helpful if Hillary would withdraw gracefully, but she's not. So do many men stay...

well past their born-on date. Neither is it helpful for the party then. Lets face it - if the second place person wants to make a stink and smell up the joint, they can. Hillary is doing this for her own reasons.

Our "hope" is that she just wants to "finish" the race. Why this is important, we'll never know, but clearly it is. The problem for us will be if she wants to force her will on the rest of us in choosing the VP. That WILL be destructive, but like this race, she "can" make a stink about it. If we don't accommodate her, she has the power to hand the race to McCain. This is why we have to pay attention to her, just like Carter should have paid better attention to Kennedy, for instance.

[RTBerry]

205. This reminds me of how Bush acted after "winning" his "mandate."

n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

206. On the ground

I have met some wonderful Obama supporters. Here on DU, his supporters, even those with some verbal skills, have sold out for back slapping and circle wanking. He is winning in spite of the people here, and because of the informed, hard working and highly postive people who do actual campaigning for him.
I have attened several events on the Obama campaign and a few of Hillary's as well. Not one of the candidates or surrogates dripped the bile that is the Sacramental Whine of the partisans here. All of them have been able to boost themselves or their candidates in the positive. Here, to be honest, this is a place that is all about the egos of some posters who I guess don't know how to gain praise in the greater world, and need to rely upon bashing and attacking other Democrats. I think they are scared to go after McCain, so they just keep attacking Democrats. For voting differently.
As a person who has won many times in highly contested competitions, I am here to tell you all that the definition of the winner is made at the moment of victory. The way a sucess is handeled can destroy chances for future sucess or lay a groundwork for more and better victory. What is coming is a very important moment for Seantor Obama, one that will define him in the minds of many voters. He will do a fantastic job of it, and I heartily recommend that his alleged supporters listen and learn from the candidate, and take up his style, instead of stinking up his campaign with a bunch of venting and off gassing. All of this bs is stuff the Obama campaign itself would not dream of saying and doing.
The backers of a candidate have only one job. To win the election. Only a unified Party will win. Making enemies out of half the Party is just stupid. Making enemies out of even a tiny fraction of voters is just stupid. Obama is not stupid. His boosters should take the hint.

[Name removed]

208. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CakeGrrl]

211. Alerted. The mods asked this graphic NOT to be posted, nor the "Hillbot" version. n/t

[Forkboy]

212. You get off on that graph...we get it already.

[meowomon]

210. They know where all the bodies are buried

And you don't fuck with the Clintons.

[Blue_In_AK]

215. Maybe because she got the votes of approximately half

of the people who participated in the primaries and caucuses? :shrug: I don't know, seems logical to me that some compromises might need to be made.

[dailykoff]

218. She LOST. Not approximately, repeatedly. She's NEVER LED IN PLEDGED DELEGATES.

This is an election, a Montessouri exercise.

[Blue_In_AK]

245. So what?

So she lost. That doesn't mean that Obama's supporters need to treat Clinton's supporters as if they are second-class Democrats or should be kicked out of the party or some of the other suggestions I've seen here. Hillary and Barack were my two least favorite choices, but I think the way some of Obama's supporters have characterized Clinton and her supporters is very counterproductive. Obama will need all the votes he can get in November. Antagonizing Hillary's supporters is not the way to win them over.

[girl_interrupted]

228. jg82567."Obama supporters unwise to attack Hillary Clinton" or "It's about the votes, stupid"

Think you should read the article, then maybe you will understand "why". To coin a phrase "It's about the votes, stupid" Think we should all adopt John Edwards attitude and try and make peace within our party, so we can join together and win in November. Losing 17 million voters, isn't the way to go.


"Obama supporters unwise to attack Hillary Clinton "by Froma Harrop Seattle Times

"Many in the Barack Obama camp, having outfoxed the apparently not-so-formidable Hillary Clinton machine, can't seem to get the hang of winning gracefully. They feel a need to drive a stake in Hillary Clinton's reputation, then dance. If they were smart, they'd heap praise on Clinton and let her finish out the race, however she chooses to do so.

Nonetheless, Obamites are throwing victory parties over the impending defeat of a fellow Democrat who has thus far pulled in more than 47 percent of their party's primary and caucus participants. Disrespecting the nearly 17 million who have supported Clinton is politically unwise, but turning them into "the enemy" is insane.

Weirdly, Obamite triumphalism seems to be merging with the festivities on the Republican side. You can understand why the right would welcome what it prays is "the end of the Clinton era." Bill Clinton presided over the longest peacetime expansion since World War II. His budget surpluses put his so-called conservative predecessors and successor to shame. Wouldn't a vow to build on the Clinton legacy, rather than dismantle it, be a better tack for the Obama campaign?

By the way, Clinton's continued sparring with Obama does not hurt the Illinois senator's chances in November. It only crowds out Republican efforts along that line. Believe me, you'd rather have the Clinton version." http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2004411946_harrop14.html

[LiberalLovinLug]

269. Where is this "Obama triumphalism"?

I do not see Obama supporters rubbing it into the face of Hillary supporters, except for a few, and there always will be a sad few from any extreme. Like the sad few who would rather stay home or vote McInsane into office to appoint anti-choice, rightwing judges.

This defensiveness of SOME Hillary supporters is really sad. This "if it had gone the other way, you'd all be throwing a hissy fit as well!" nonsense. And so they project their petulance onto the Obama camp by claiming, or at least implying, falsely that the majority of Obama supporters are jeering and insulting towards Hillary and her supporters. That is simply not the case. And just repeating over and over does not make it so. It's like some of you Hillary supporters NEED to be jeered at and bullied so you can justify her loss as brought on by ignorant louts. And I admit there are a few. But just a few.

Many of us decried her exaggerations, veiled racist language, McCain praising behavior. Sorry if you took deserved criticism of public behavior by her as assault. In spite of that myself, and most other Obama supporters, are willing to see that she was temporarily led off the path and are willing to love her once more. I would have certainly voted for her had she won. She is miles above McCain in having the right qualities for President.

But please. While I don't think this OP is particularly helpful, the responses from Hillary supporters, reveal just how defensive and insult-baiting they remain. Good news is there is still time to lick our wounds and move on.

[RaleighNCDUer]

346. A bullshit editorial by an obvious Hillary supporter.

She hit all the talking points, from 'Obamite' to 'Clinton's continued sparring with Obama does not hurt the Illinois senator's chances in November' which is a bizarre bit of prognostication.

Be nice to Clintons or they will FUCK YOU UP.

With that attitude, why should we?

[Ken Burch]

343. If HRC was talking about compromise, it would be one thing.

She and her supporters STILL don't accept that Obama has a legitimate right to be ahead in delegates and votes.

Compromise needs to go both ways. HRC's compromise needs to start with her accepting that it's over. That's not too much to ask. She's had her chance and she knows it.

[Blue_In_AK]

355. I'm pretty sure she knows that.

Maybe she's just keeping on her "game face" until everybody's had a chance to vote. Once the primaries are all over, I'm sure everybody's going to come together and play nicely.

[Ken Burch]

364. I hope you're right.

n/t.

[pnwmom]

219. History. And because Clinton's supporters now represent almost half the party.

We'd be very stupid -- and ignoring history -- not to try to heal the breach at this point.

Other than Edwards, the other candidates got only a few percent of the vote. The math alone should convince you.

[JeanGrey]

222. Very good question. It is pretty disgusting, isn't it?

Let's all kiss Hillary's butt and pay her debts so she'll go away quietly - gag we don't need her

[Ewellian]

252. I think Senator Obama disagrees.

I think he would prefer to have the Clintons campaigning for him this fall.

[Stephanie]

226. K&R. Well said!

We have INDULGED the Clintons long enough.

[madrchsod]

229. cause we are all nice people?

[Cha]

232. Speaking for myself..

I don't. They can go down in history as the worst managed Democratic(sic) campaign in history that got Hoisted By their Own Petard and they can stay there.

[w4rma]

233. Apparantly they're crazy and prone to acting with their emotions rather than with logic.

Actually that's just a vocal minority of them, and probably many of them are Repugs trying to create division.

[northernlights]

238. actually the only tantrums I see

are the spoiled, ungracious soon-to-be winners demanding that Hillary supporters do as they say or else. Or else what, exactly?

The entire Democrat party doesn't have to placate Hillary or her supporters. For one thing,

1. half the party supports Hillary

Not to mention, also 1. Hillary's supporters aren't asking anyone to placate them.

BTW, just because the media claims somebody is "playing the victim" doesn't mean they are playing the victim or playing anything else. She simply is going down with her ship instead of jumping overboard. Her choice.

Hillary intends to allow everybody the opportunity to vote and express their opinion. Exactly what is so horrible about that? It's legal, it's her right, and it's the right of her supporters to support her to the end, or not.

What I don't understand is what about Obama's message of unity do his supporters not understand? The "our way or the highway" is, as I recall, Bush's message. Is that *really* who you want to emulate?

[XtraProudDem]

342. It's called the DEMOCRATIC Party

"The entire Democrat party doesn't have to placate Hillary or her supporters."

It's DEMOCRATIC Party. Please don't make that mistake again.

[Willo]

240. Hillary supporters and the Hillaryites

A recent article mentioned the difference between the two. In a nutshell, the Hillaryites were described as the ones who will ONLY vote Dem in the GE if Hillary is the nominee.

Unfortunately, there is no way to distinguish between the two without dialog that (sadly) is prefaced or concluded with "I will vote Dem". It might be helpful if threads and posts made a distinction. I truly have respect for Hillary supporters and don't like how they get pulled along (and feel forced at times, to defend themselves and their candidate), in this ugly endgame.

Needless to say, there is no way to placate the members of that other group and no reason to even try.

[RTBerry]

268. A recent article mentioned...

Some have said... There are those who believe...

These are not the best choices for honest advocates to begin their arguments.

And needless to say, just because the article said it, doesn't make it so.

[Willo]

270. There is nothing wrong with prefacing an opinion by indicating

the source that sparked the thought.

Nor does it necessarily mean that there is total agreement, if any, with the source.


"I said/did/saw ___________ and it got me to thinking..." Statements such as these is where new inventions, technologies, relationships and reconcilitions begin.

[Phillycat]

407. Well. Thank you for this post.

As a Hillary supporter who will willingly vote for the Democratic nominee in the GE, I appreciate it.

[knixphan]

246. It's over. Time for McCain.

[DS1]

250. The real test is what happens when Hillary endorses Obama

The ratfuck blowhards here will hopefully have one final flameout, making a horrible and lingering "McCaiiiiiiii" sound from their tombstones.

And I can't wait

[StevieM]

369. Here's a prediction. When she endorse Obama his supporters, both on-line and in the media

will be totally un-gracious. They'll say that she has to do it to redeem herself for all her reprehensible actions and to salvage what it left of her legacy.

Enjoy your high-five moments. They won't get you the White House in November.

Steve

[suston96]

253. Hillary supporters? Who needs them anyway. Obama has 90% of the black vote. He will win the GE...

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May18.html

Oh, my! Look at all those red states Obama won in the primaries with that black vote. Will any of those states go to Obama!

[Hekate]

295. I'm thrilled. What percent of the US vote is that again?

I have an Obama yard sign and an Obama bumper sticker on proud display. I love this guy. Obama is running as a unifier.

But excuse me when I roll my eyes and sigh one of those exaggerated sighs, okay? We need EVERY VOTE to win this election.

We need the Hispanic vote, which is rising fast in numbers.
We need the white vote, which is still, last time I looked, the majority of this country.
We need the black vote, and the gay vote, and the blue collar vote, and the white professional vote.

We NEED THE HILLARY CLINTON VOTE.

Or we will lose. Again.

Obama is running as a unifier. Can we please help him do that?

Hekate

[frog92969]

254. How to deal with a spoiled 4yr. old's tantrum?

Ignore the tantrum.

[Carolina]

257. K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R!!!

You are so right.

Both Clintons have revealed their true selves. It's all about their egos and claim to power.

The wingnuts of the 90s were right, and what a fool I was to support and defend them back then.

[jillan]

260. Ummm - because she has 48% of the Dem vote and Obama needs them to win?

[NOLALady]

263. If her base is similar to the WV voters,

they will probably not vote for Obama even with her endorsement.

[jillan]

267. Which is a shame because Bill won them in the 90's.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

279. Why do you want the votes of racists? I don't. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

356. Yes, it's a shame Obama can't get a new skin color like Bill's. Then he...

... might've had a chance to get WV votes in the primary.

Then again, has WV ever gone Democratic in the election that counts the most - the General Election?

[aaaaaa5a]

265. It's Sad But True.....

There is no racial, gender, or demographic group in the World that enjoys more special rights and privileges than an American White Woman.


The point of this thread is long overdue.

[OzarkDem]

271. Because the race is a draw, she's not losing

[RunningFromCongress]

401. A draw? That's funny. Keep trying to change the metric.

[lumberjack_jeff]

272. Because they're over more than half of the Democratic party? n/t

[Raineyb]

446. Far be it for me to correct your math but...

If Clinton supporters were more than half of the Democratic party then Clinton would be -er winning.

Regards

[OzarkDem]

275. You don't have to

Your candidate will lose and his sexist supporters will be rejected. Unless you get over your sexist attitudes, you won't be accepted by the Democratic party much longer.

[quaker bill]

276. They don't. N/T

[Unbowed]

277. Amen.

We Democrats have enough to worry about without having to waste our time coddling a bunch of poor sports. It's not worth the time or the effort. Obama has a better chance winning over the neocons than these myopic, sore losers.

Hillary Clinton has picked up a nasty coalition of low-information and bigoted voters. These people are never going to vote for Obama. They are the people who voted for Bush, not once but twice. The rest of the Clinton voters, and most likely the majority, are simply Democrats trying to choose the best candidate for the primary. These folks don't need coddling. They will vote Democratic in the general election.

[tpsbmam]

283. I feel the need to put a little damper on your premise.....

that Hillary should "take it like a man" and all of the men dropped out like men.

Gravel is still in the race. You don't hear about him, but he's still in and he's still debating.....he's debating the Libertarians, but he's debating. He was on the ballot in NC.

That said, I can't disagree with much of what you say. I don't mind the wooing of Clinton supporters, I do mind the expectation that I'll be PC when confronted with those Clinton supporters who claim they'll vote for McCain and won't vote for the Democratic nominee.

[Occam Bandage]

285. The fighter/victim mentality is one that continues to confuse me.

[aaaaaa5a]

286. What Could Possibly Be Confusing???

She's a strong, independent, history making, trailblazer when she wants to be.

And she's a weak, coddled, complaining, rule changing, gender card playing victim when she wants to be.

I don't see any contradiction that's confusing? (sarcasm)

[TexasObserver]

359. Fighter?! No, professional crybaby. She loves to curl up, whining about being a victim.

[TexasObserver]

292. Because Hillary has never had to pay her way in life, ever.

Hillary is a spoiled brat who has always had someone else do the heavy lifting and pay her way in life. She's never had a real job. She's been Bill's wife most of her adult life, and her dad paid her way before Bill came along. She couldn't pay for her wardrobe on the money she makes.

[Hekate]

296. It's called party unity, and it's because we need every vote. Or we will lose. Again. nt

[pipi_k]

298. sigh...I dunno...

I guess I'd be willing to placate Hillary and her supporters and a whole lot of other people too, if it meant winning back the White House in November.


Why kick 'em when they're already down?


Can't winners afford to be magnanimous? In a good sport sort of way, I mean...not patronizing....

[The Doctor.]

315. Yes...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6020269&mesg_id=6020269

[cyclezealot]

299. Does Obama like to win

Because they have enough supporters to make the difference between victory and defeat. Don't encourage the big tent thing, then the tent is half full.

[merkins]

303. Kick!

[hayu_lol]

306. "The entire Democratic Party has to..."

Naw. Its only half the Dem Party you have to worry about.

Perhaps you guys should have thought more and attacked less over the past 5 weeks. Nicht wahr?

Since the two candidates are essentially tied at the moment(when were they not?), neither has lost yet--ummm, and neither has won either.

Continue to have your fun...it will be at your expense in the end.

[femrap]

312. So millions of women, the backbone of the dem

party, do all the unglamorous work of phone calls, canvassing, driving around delivering signs. But I think the young people can do all that this time. It'll be their first election....they're so cute and excited.

Those older women who support HRC just don't have the memories or sharpness they used to....they just might forget which day they're supposed to vote.

Keep it, you little newbies....keep insulting....and all of you other stupid fucks keep recommending it. I doubt you can follow a canvassing map....better bring your cell phone and that gps so you don't get lost. And try to sound professional on the phone....instead of some sloppy slang-using, snotty snob.

And most of all...remember this. You are NOT as important as you think you are.

[ElboRuum]

335. And neither are you.

So, here we have another front in the Obama/Clinton war. Generational warfare.

Classy. Real classy.

[femrap]

451. I think it was Obama who didn't like 'the

excesses' of my generation...but Raygun was cool with that vision thing of his. He started it. Where have you been? It's been a Divide and Conquer campaign for a long time: male v. female Older/old v. young and Black v. White. TPTB are having a lot of fun with this one.

It's class alright...class warfare set up by TPTB.

[ElboRuum]

456. Meh... I have a feeling that TPTB had little to do with it...

But even if they did, was it so smart and forward thinking for us to embrace the us/them idea? We certainly didn't have to be hard sold on it, did we? Naaah. American's like to identify with the group. It's our thing. And nothing passes the time on a bored Thursday evening than a nice rousing game of "What's Wrong With These Kids Today", doesn't it. Oh, don't worry, the kids are getting together on Wednesday nights for a game of "Boomer Hypocrisy, Deluxe Edition" so they've pretty much swallowed the Kool-Aid, just like everyone else has.

So we all just keep playing the game because its what we've always done, and we wouldn't want to let our team down, now would we?

Me? I'm a conscientious objector in the generational war, thank you very much.

[femrap]

459. Who got all the $$$$??????

TPTB picked the candidates...they enjoy watching the masses hating each other...they have their own agenda. Could be that Africa is the last continent to be raped of natural resources. And who would make that job easier?

TPTB own the MSM...and the message was heard (Edwards gone with little to no coverage).

[ElboRuum]

460. The point is...

...they did it with the tacit acceptance of those who should be most against it. You and I.

[jbm]

338. we think alike..

and it sounds like we have similiar experiences as well. In my area, there are a small handful of women who do all the canvassing, all the phone banking, all the fundraising, and somehow cover all the details. We're all Hillary supporters. Every year we have two or three fundraisers to come up with the money we need to rent the headquarters.

About a month ago we were at a meeting where the purpose was to plan the first fundraiser. We began talking about how disgusted we were with the way Hillary was being treated and by the end of the convo, someone suggested we take this year off. We all thought that was a great idea, but it didn't seem right to not give fair warning, so we told many people that we weren't going to be able to organize the fundraisers this year. It's like they don't believe us or something. I think maybe they believe a miracle just happens and a headquarters with free coffee appears. It's going to be an interesting year.

[femrap]

400. That has always been my experience....

except for the usual retired guys who are good workers and willing to work for free.

Keep me posted as to the 'interesting' events at your HQs...

And GOOD FOR YOU!!! What was that saying...'Feminism is declaring the difference between a woman and a welcome mat?' Well...you get the idea.

[jbm]

439. the retired guys are great!

They fry the fish for the fish fry fundraisers, grill the burgers for the candidate fundraisers, and good naturedly bid ridiculous sums of money when they auction the leftover desserts at the end of the night. The retired guys I speak of are Hillary supporters as well, and so far I haven't heard any of them suggest that we reconsider our decision to sit this year out. I'll keep you posted.

[femrap]

448. Thank you...

I bet you'll have some good stories!

[haymakeragain]

436. How is Hillary being treated?

In your opinion. and trreated by whom?

[TexasObserver]

358. "Remember this. You are NOT as important as you think you are" to quote you.

I highly doubt you've ever worked in a presidential campaign other than Drivin' Miss Hilly. If you had, you wouldn't so glibly dismiss the job of actually working for the nominee just because YOUR candidate has lost.

Hillary has a cult of personality, and she appeals mainly to people who have never worked for the party before. Her core support is white women over 60, many of whom think if she's elected their lives of failure will somehow be vindicated. It isn't rational, but one wouldn't expect it to be.

[femrap]

398. Millions of women ARE important...but

then maybe you consider only the boys to be. Go look at some stats on who votes for dems. And it appears you're the one who is new to politics.

If anyone has a cult, it's BO..youngsters who love American Idol.

Keep up the insults....you only hurt your special little guy.

[haymakeragain]

433. who's insulting whom?

Nice going. If I remember correctly, I think it is a high percentage of women from 20-40 that don't bother to vote at all. Is that right? what are they going to do this time? Not vote again?

[femrap]

450. There's more young men that don't vote...but when they do

they vote repugnant. Unmarried women vote Democratic. There's a gender gap most definitely.

Guess the young newbies to politics will have to get out there and canvass and get them registered and then to the polls.

Women's Voices, Women Vote have a great web site where you can learn. I'm done teaching.

[Gman]

313. This thing is far from over

just because Obamabots "claim" victory does not make it so. There's the Florida issue and telling 1.7 million Democratic voters to go fuck theirselves. THere's close to half the Democratic Party primary voters who want to see Hillary as president to deal with.

This thing is very far from over.

[northernlights]

319. something about this all seems

soooo familiar.

Oh yeah, I remember...it's all coming back to me.

Back in '94, I was at the library with the Sunday Globe. An old harpy on the other side of the room started staring at me and, apparently doing her best Coulter imitation, rattling on about Hillary with a sneer on her face. Everybody in the room stopped reading and watched, waiting to see what would happen. I barely knew who Hillary was, and to this day have no idea why the bitch singled me out for harrassment. I did my best to ignore her for half an hour, while she sneered and yammered on, smirking at me. Her husband tried to stop her, and when she shrgged him off, mouthed apologies.

Finally I couldn't take it any more. Very politely, I asked her if she would please keep her voice down. I explained that I'd been unemployed for nearly a year, my unemployment run out, and it was impossible for me to concentrate on the 'help wanteds' with her talking at me. Stopped her dead in her tracks. Her husband looked like he wanted to crawl into a hole. And then the effing library walked *me* out. Those assholes never got a donation from me again.

A lifelong left-leaning political independent, for 14 years I've been harrassed by total strangers in the street for being a "liberal baby killer" and more. My last job was working for a bunch of so-called christian rightwingnutcases who literally poisoned me, harrassed me at work, harrassed me in my home with early morning hangup calls, and ultimately trespassed and assaulted my yearling filly and then my elderly gelding.

I joined the democratic party in '03 and gave up beautiful October Saturdays to make calls for Kerry.

And now it's come to this. Hillary wasn't my 1st choice...more like 3rd or 4th at best. I preferred Biden, then Richardson, then Edwards. For a while there, I would have voted McCain before Hillary, until he started hugging Bush and giving up his independence and whatever principles he may have once had.

I had many reservations about Obama from the start, and not because of anything Hillary said, but because of what HE said, or rather, what he didn't, and has yet to, say. He looks too young and naive, and his message is too empty and lacking in specifics. "Change we can believe in" says exactly nothing. NOTHING.

And as for his supporters, well, I've run into you before. There is not one iota of difference between you and the arrogant, ignorant snotnose rightwingnutcases that harrassed me at work, in the street and in my home for 14 years. If you represent what Obama has to offer, than he's no different than Bush. Your way or the highway. Fine. Fuck you too. I'll take the highway, tyvm.

Now go dance yourselves a little victory dance, and label be a whiner crybaby or whatever.

It's still one less vote for Obama and you have only your obnoxious, offensive and digusting selves to thank.

[man4allcats]

321. The entire Democratic Party doesn't. You don't,

so what's the problem? Don't take it so personally. It's just politics in America today, and politics in America today is awful. Choose another endeavor. You'll be happier.

[dailykoff]

322. The Clintons are playing them for fools.

They're a fine pair of manipulative charlatans and Hillary's bedraggled CNN gazers are about the only cohort left that hasn't gotten wise to them.

[elleng]

324. Use your head,

fool.

[Bensthename]

325. Obama has to walk on egg shells to appease Hillary Supporters

I feel sorry for the guy.. He can not campaign as hard as he should for fear of pissing off a Clinton supporter.. Oh well she will be out soon enough.

[pnwmom]

326. No, he doesn't. He just needs to lead his supporters in reaching out

to Hillary's supporters.

[pnwmom]

327. You don't have to placate Hillary supporters. Just stop calling them names

and saying things like "they are spoiled 4 year olds having a tantrum."

Stop insulting them for having been supporters of HRC, stop name-calling, and start to recognize that they have had valid reasons for being upset with how HRC and her supporters have been treated by too many other candidates' supporters.

I haven't taken sides in this campaign, but I have observed a significant amount of sexism and or misogyny among the Democrats. Some Dems think that the solution is to minimize the problem or even pretend it doesn't exist. I think we'd be better off to acknowledge it and work toward changing it in the future.

[frogcycle]

329. oh, stuff it

[onehandle]

330. Because if her supporters don't vote for Obama, we lose in November.

Clinton has lost. Why are Obama supporters still stirring up shit?

What purpose does this classless post of yours serve?

(and no, I'm not a Clinton supporter)

[Ravy]

331. Maybe because over half of the Democratic Party (who voted) voted for her. nt

[dpbrown]

332. I think you should just revel in your pompous "we don't need" any other candidate's voters attitude

Yeah, that's the ticket. Why don't you condescend to Kucinich supporters, Edwards supporters, Richardson supporters, Biden supporters and Clark supporters while you're at it.

That's sure to heal the ticket.

Oh, that's right. Obama the Messiah doesn't need anybody!

:rofl:

[Catherine Vincent]

339. Spoken like a true pompous ass of an Obama supporter. nt

[rainlillie]

348. GREAT POST!!!!!!!!

!!

[DeepModem Mom]

351. Because we want to win the election in November???

And we can't do it without the half of the party that voted for HRC, including the majority of voters in all of the huge Dem states except Illinois?

"Act like a grown-up, show some dignity and think of the country...." I think that goes for both sides. If Clinton supporters say they won't vote for a ticket headed by Obama, that's treasonous, IMO. If Obama supporters risk a GOP victory to indulge ourselves in a snit of revenge, same thing.

[MADem]

353. Because seventy two percent of the public are taking issue with her treatment.

Fully 72% of the public - including comparable percentages of Democrats, Republicans and independents - say that journalists should not be anointing Obama as the Democratic nominee at this stage in the race. Just 20% say that journalists should be doing this.

Opinion among Democrats about what the press should do in this regard may well reflect their view that Hillary Clinton should stay in the race. Recent surveys by Gallup and ABC News/Washington Post find that most Democrats believe that Clinton should stay in the race. In the ABC News/Washington Post survey, released May 12, 64% of Democrats, including 42% of Obama supporters, said Clinton should remain in the race.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=421

If he's such a "presumptive nominee" why gripe about it?

Go pop your champagne and let it play out.

Unless you are afraid of something.

[dailykoff]

361. It's confirmed.

Heard it on the conference call.

[MADem]

406. What's confirmed? That seventy two percent take issue? NT

[haymakeragain]

434. Right on message.

"They're all picking on Hillary the sexists bastards".

I think most of those "journalists" just think that she cannot gain the number of delegates that she needs and merely wonder how she's gonna win, as am I.

[MADem]

455. Wow, you're just FULL OF preconceived notions, aren't you?

Look at the cite I provided, there, genius--those first two paragraphs in my post are FROM THE CITE. Which is a POLL, not an OP-ED.

You got issues, take it up with them.

The cite had nothing to DO with "journalism." It was about a public opinion survey. By a polling outfit. If you'd clicked on the link you might have NOTICED that.

But then, you had your talking points all sussed out--can't let pesky facts interfere with your "opining" I suppose.


I didn't say it. YOU did. And that says something.

[rove karl rove]

370. two of the biggest reasons they should

1. to be a gracious winner
2. those are voters the party will need to win back to win the general

[Two Americas]

379. you contradict yourself

You say that there is one group - "the entire Democratic party" - that is being unfairly called upon to "placate" another group - "Clinton supporters."

Clinton supporters are almost half of the party. How can your favored group be justifiably called "the entire Democratic party?"

Never mind "placating." How about you stop insulting people? That would be a start. Nothing is more insulting than to leave half of the Democrats out of your idea of "the entire Democratic party."

[Secret_Society]

381. I think you overlook that this is not an "ass-whipping"

I don't think you need to placate anyone, but you shouldn't forget that HRC supporters are half of the party and not just some roadblock to an Obama coronation.

[PretzelWarrior]

385. I think she's just a tad bit too emotional

you know?

[TexasObserver]

388. Because Hillary is a part of Placation Nation.

sung to the tune of Rhythm Nation

[Texas Hill Country]

396. because we represent half the party

[Beacool]

408. Simple, she won 49% of the votes

and Obama won't win the GE without her help and that of her supporters.

:shrug:

[Texas Hill Country]

413. yeah, i would say that sums it up

[haymakeragain]

435. I'll ask again,

what do you want?

[Beacool]

447. What I want? I want Obama not to be the nominee,

but I doubt that I will get my wish. Hillary is only 2% behind Obama, why should she or anyone else in that position drop out? This is not about "hurting" Obama, it's about electing the best candidate for the job and for millions of people that person is Hillary.

The media may want Obama, his supporters may want him, as of late, even the party leaders may want him, but half of all Democratic voters want Hillary. It's that simple.

[blm]

414. Now you can better understand what Gore and Kerry had to go thru with Clintons controlling

the Dem party during THEIR election cycles. They made it so much harder than it ever should have been as they had the party infrastructure set up only to serve their needs.

Think what would be happening now if Clintons succeeded in getting one of their loyalists a head of DNC yet again in 2005. Clinton would have gotten her Super Tuesday closing and we'd all be in the same rut as ever - defending Clintons while the party went to hell.

[Jim Sagle]

449. Why? Because Clinton supporters ARE half the party.

Do. The. Math. It's. REALLY. Simple.

[cynatnite]

457. Obama needs us if he wants to win the WH n/t

[Orsino]

458. It wouldn't take much placating.

Not referring to them as "spoiled four-year-olds" may all that's needed.

Clinton is pledged to campaign for the nominee, and presumably, most of her supporters will eventually concur, whether or not they feel like talking about it right now. If there's anyone in particular you want to join you, I recommend updating your vocabulary for future discussions.