Should the FL and MI votes/delegates count, and if so, in what way.

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Poll question: Should the FL and MI votes/delegates count, and if so, in what way.

simple enough

on edit: cleaned up some clumsy wording on the delegate half vote options, meaning left unchanged

[anonymous171]

1. What is this popular vote thing? It's not counted in the primary.

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3. Uh, a measure of the will of the people. It was all the rage in 2000.

[Alexander]

4. And how did President Gore's term go?

Oh, wait....:eyes:

[anonymous171]

5. Well, my vote isn't counted, since I voted in the WA state caucus.

Thanks for ignoring my vote.

[merwin]

14. My vote isn't counted, since I voted in the WA state primary.

I feel for you man! Only way for your vote to count in WA is to attend both.

[kid a]

15. Um, now let me explain to you like a fucking kindergartner: The GE is different from a Primary.

[babylonsister]

2. Let the DNC decide. Period. No vote here. nt

[bobbert]

6. What difference does popular vote make? What about caucuses?

Who gives a shit about popular vote? You can count them however you want but Obama has the lead in delegates.

[quakerboy]

7. No SD's.

Thats my take. It seems to me that the party players in the 2 states were key players in causing this problem in the first place, and in prolonging it rather than solving it. Thus, I would say Do Not give the MI/FL super delegates a vote in the nomination.

I wish it had been resolved much earlier. I think that all 5 involved groups played a part in elongating the problem far past what was reasonable. The Delegates should probably be seated at half each, just as the repugs did. But if the SD's from the states are penalized those votes, I would feel ok even if the pledged were seated as is.

As to popular vote, since there is no such thing in any official manner, that is left in the eye of the beholder. Whoever is considering the concept has to decide for themselves. For instance, does Puerto Rico count in the Popular vote, given that it is not a state, and has no electoral votes? Do the 2 penalized states count, with the issues involved there? Do people who voted in Caucuses count? How about people who voted in Open primaries? Since it is an amorphous concept with no official standard or measure, its all up to whoever is considering it, based on how fair they want to be, the implications of why they are considering it, and any other factors they choose to consider.

[democrattotheend]

8. Count the delegates, giving Obama the uncommitteds from Michigan.

Ditto for the popular vote. At least give him 73% of the uncommitted, since 73% said in the exit polls that they would have voted for Obama. Still probably underestimates his support, since a lot of his voters stayed home or vote in the Republican primary, but I guess it's the best we can do right now.

And don't count superdelegates from either state...they caused this mess and don't deserve to vote.

[mcctatas]

9. Counting the popular vote for anything other than bragging

rights is unfair to caucus states which are a part of our primary system. As to the rest, it's in the DNC rules published in August of 2006 that every candidate was aware of and agreeable to at the time they entered the race, MI and FL should be seated as is according to the rules (namely, only 50% of the totals).

C. 1. a. Violation of timing: In the event the Delegate Selection Plan of a state party
provides or permits a meeting, caucus, convention or primary which constitutes
the first determining stage in the presidential nominating process to be held prior
to or after the dates for the state as provided in Rule 11 of these rules, or in the
event a state holds such a meeting, caucus, convention or primary prior to or after
such dates, the number of pledged delegates elected in each category allocated to
the state pursuant to the Call for the National Convention shall be reduced by
fifty (50%) percent, and the number of alternates shall also be reduced by fifty
(50%) percent. In addition, none of the members of the Democratic National
Committee and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from
that state shall be permitted to vote as members of the state’s delegation. In
determining the actual number of delegates or alternates by which the state’s
delegation is to be reduced, any fraction below .5 shall be rounded down to the
nearest whole number, and any fraction of .5 or greater shall be rounded up to the
next nearest whole number. http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/de68e7b6dfa0743217_hwm6bhyc4.pdf

[dubeskin]

10. Other

I say three possible things could and/or should happen:
1) Complete re-primary, allowing an accurate and fair allotment of delegates, allowing Obama to actually campaign and have a chance. Votes and delegates would fully count for both states, and both would vote at the convention.

2) Release all delegates to vote for whoever they please, essentially making all Florida and Michigan delegates Superdelegates or like those of a candidate who dropped out.

3) Sort of count them. Rather than do a complete count of Florida and Michigan, proportionally add a delegate to every other state who followed the rules so that the delegate totals are increased and FL/MI still don't count, but those delegates from other states can vote as pleased.

Ether way, it's Hillary pulling at strings to try to get the nomination - a nomination that Obama has nearly clinched.

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12. Neither candidate campaigned in those states.

Sorry, but your first option doesn't apply.

I like your option number two.

Number 3, eh.

Obama may be near clinching the nomination, but he hasn't as of yet.

I admire Hillary for fighting on.

[yewberry]

11. No such thing as popular vote in a primary.

Never has been.

However, I think it would be fair to seat half of the FL delegates and half of the MI delegates (unc to Obama) as long as the FDP apologizes to the rest of the Democrats in the country for trying to bully and blackmail us, and the MDP apologizes to the party and voters of NH and IA for calling them 'terrorist, rogue' states. Both state parties should also apologize to their respective state Dem voters for risking their votes in an attempt to gain prestige.

The state parties did this, and they should step up and be accountable for it.

Fair enough?

[featherman]

13. FL and MI were not authorized primaries and the results can not be used

for delegate selection. Since these events were not authorized for delegate selection the "straw poll" results are not binding.

Each state party must submit a plan to the DNC for delegate selection. Some choose primaries, some caucuses, some conventions, some a combination of these. All delegate selection plans must be submitted to the DNC for approval. MI and FL's were not approved.

MI and FL had no approved delegate selection plan. The vote results are non-binding as regards to being used as a delegate selection plan.

Since time has run out both states are in negotiation to seat a delegation of some sort that is NOT based on the non-binding straw poll results.

It's really pretty simple. Not sure why so many here on DU find this so hard to understand.