Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Hillary Clinton vs. Mary McDonnell as Laura Roslin on "Battlestar Galactica"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
El Pinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:11 AM
Original message
Hillary Clinton vs. Mary McDonnell as Laura Roslin on "Battlestar Galactica"
Edited on Sun May-18-08 09:16 AM by El Pinko

Okay, now I know, it's just a silly science fiction show. But those of you who watch it must be as impressed with this character as I am. Authoritative, intelligent, thrown into the presidency with no warning, but still displaying impressive leadership skills, but also real frailty and sincerity.

Maybe it's because I see this character on a weekly basis and am so impressde by her demeanor that I tend to be disappointed by Hillary Clinton's.

I mean, I like Clinton - I admire her strength, intelligence, and tenacity. I was really torn about whether to vote for her or Obama.

But her manner is always so stiff, so controlled, and so unnatural. I never feel that she's really all that comforable in her own skin. At least not the skin she has to wear in front of the cameras.

It's probably too late, but I think she could win over a lot of people if she would just drop the pretense and concerted effort, and simply talk to the people the way she talks to the people she works with.

And she doesn't need to keep that forced tight smile on her face ALL THE TIME. Normal people do NOT smile constantly. Save the smiles for when you really feel it and then let'er rip.

Just relax and be real, Hillary. You've got everything else going for you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think Roslin has been Bush most of the time
The show is taking a hard metaphysical turn now. I love how they're incorporating the old show mythology (Head 6/Head Baltar is Count Iblis, I'm sure of it) into the new plot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
El Pinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Difference being she is faced with the genuine threat of annihilation at every turn...
...Bush constantly raises fears of people who at worst could kill a few thousand of us a year - an enemy that could never possibly defeat the US militarily.

I personally think Roslin's leadership has mostly been tempered.

That's an interesting take on Head 6/Baltar. I hadn't thought of that. I wasn't entirely convinced that they were evil, but I have to admit that the religion Baltar is selling is pretty flaky stuff, so it does make sense that these entities are using his vanity and sense of self-importance to lead him into damaging the fleet's well-being.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Brilliant show. Abolutely convincing. Human civilization nuked by its own robots.
Some crusty old admiral in an ancient clunker of a spaceship, already half converted to a museum, is all that is left of the defenses of the 12 planets of this civilization. He and his crew, the Sec of Education (Roslin) there for the decommissioning of his ship, and 50,000 people scattered between the planets in transports and science ships, are all that is left of the entire civilization. He prepares to fight back, with his one old clunker. She tells him, "The war is over. We lost." She is sworn in as president in a scene that is deliberately framed to resemble LBJ's swearing in, on AF-1, after JFK's assassination with distraught and blood-spattered Jackie Kennedy as one of the witnesses (i.e., think of Jackie being sworn in). Their civilization had a myth about a place called "Earth." She tries to convince the old admiral (James Olmos) to give up the fight and embark on a journey to find the mythical "Earth."

I do see the references to Bush post-9/11 in the situation that Roslin is in (and in her religion--the myth about "Earth"). Some of her decisions echo Bush's. However, Battlestar Gallactica, a fictional work, is far more convincing than the "terrorist" bullshit that dumbfuck Bush foisted upon the U.S. of A. after 9/11. That is the profound irony of this TV series. You believe in Roslin's (and Admiral Adama's) dilemmas. They are real. Although 9/11 certainly happened, everything that Bush says and does about it, from 9/12 on, has been a lie. Roslin rises to the challenge of shepherding the last 50,000 human beings through one crisis after another--including their being chased and repeatedly attacked by the robot (Cylon) victors--while trying to maintain the elements of their shredded civilization (civilian rule, civil rights, even a free press, etc.). Similarly, Adama maintains military protocol, chain of command and effective defenses, in this dire circumstance. These two authorities--civilian and military--are sometimes in accord, but more often clash, and the writers maintain a fine, dramatic tension between them throughout the series. There is no dramatic tension in the corporate news monopoly narrative of Bush and the "terrorists." It is lies, disinformation, manipulation of the public and total bullshit from day one.

So, while the show definitely uses 9/11 themes, at times--including the overarching dilemma of how to maintain civilized life and democracy when the civilization is under attack--Battlestar Gallactica makes a far better show of this (and other) themes than Bush and his handlers and their asshole press. And the comparison also breaks down in this respect: The U.S. suffered one attack in which 3,000 people died, but was not attacked, invaded and destroyed by a Cylon fleet and a robot army. There is no comparing the fragility of the condition of the human race in the show, with the situation of the U.S. after 9/11. The U.S. DID NOT NEED TO invade either Iraq OR Afghanistan--and slaughter over a million innocent people--to solve its problem. In Battlestar Gallactica, they are not even sure that 50,000 people are enough to propagate the human race into the future. As they lose more people--to Cylon attacks--this becomes are serious concern. The U.S., on the other hand, is under far more threat from corporate destruction of the environment--and from the war profiteers and looters and mass murderers of the Bush Junta--than it is from scattered cells of "terrorists."

There is one very interesting reference to 9/11, in BG, as to how the Cylons' attack on the 12 planets succeeded in the first place. A human-looking robot seduces their top IT scientist and gains access to their defense computer network. Their weakness was INTERNAL. (Think: Bush holding hands with Prince Saud?) Admiral Adama had opposed computer networking on his old battleship, which is how it had survived the attack. Maybe it's me, and my particular concern about our computerized election system, but I see a reference in this to rightwing Bushite corporations 'counting' all our votes with computers run on 'TRADE SECRET' code, with virtually no audit/recount controls. The mysterious innards of a computer can be your friend; it can also totally fuck over your civilization.

Well, your comment that "Roslin has been Bush most of the time" really set me off. The difference between Roslin and Bush is that Roslin's problems and her reactions to her situation are real and elicit sympathy, and Bush is just a poser. A "codpiece." A puppet. Fiction and reality do a flip-flop. Which is very strange.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. Unlike Rosalyn
Hillary won't be on an alien ship and have a hybrid yell "Jump" to take her to distant place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
El Pinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. That was a hell of a security risk, wasn't it?
Boy does that show keep me on the edge of my seat. Feels like each episode is over in about 20 minutes tops.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. By the gods you are right
Although it's not in the category of Star Trek's placing of the top tier of officers in harm's way every single show.

This last season of BSG will be a memorable one, that's for sure.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. LOL.
Did you forget that Roslin tried to steal the election ?

Thats rich.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
El Pinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes, because she knew that Baltar would be disastrous for the fleet (and he was)
Personally, I don't think she should have agreed to holding elections. Adama would have been correct to keep the fleet under martial law until reaching a permanent landing. The very notion of having anything more than redimentary democratic processes in a fleet of ships under military command and under the constant threat of attack is ludicrous, but obviously was added by the writers to create more interesting conflicts.

Roslin is far from perfect, but she is an impressive leader. Leadership and purity are 2 different things.

Jimmy Carter was a fine man of the highest caliber, but he was a very poor leader.


If Hillary or Obama were to do something underhanded to protect the country, and had the sense to keep it covered up at least until they were out of office (if not dead), then I would be okay with that.

Taking the high road can be suicide sometimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. I agree. Roslin ain't no frackin Bush. And Adama ain't no General Betray-us.
They have a real crisis and face it with honesty and nobility. Bush's crisis in bullshit and he "faces it" by slaughtering a million people to get their oil, and letting his buds steal us blind. As a TV show, Bush should have been taken off the air a long time ago.

BG plays out all the themes, dilemmas and drama of "What if?" What if alien beings (of our own making) wiped us out, and a few of us got away?

The "of our making" part is a nice twist. Did we not organize, fund and arm Al Qaeda?

BG is also useful as Greek purgative drama. Put your worst fears on stage, and watch them acted out--in this case with brilliant acting, writing and production values--a show with such gritty reality to it, you find it more believable than our actual political/national reality. The Greek idea was to "purge" the audience of nightmarish fears, so that people can clear their heads and enjoy life. BG does that. After watching this very gripping show, you have a feeling of relief. Our situation ain't so bad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
9. BSG has some GREAT actors & even better writers, you're right if Hillary would've shown Roslins.....
Edited on Sun May-18-08 10:46 AM by uponit7771
...character then should would've trounced Obama and I like Obama a lot.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. Didn't Roslyn outlaw abortion?
Just sayin'... :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
El Pinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Roslin outlawed abortion DESPITE being personally pro-choice...
...she felt it was necessary in the face of a decimated population.

Not that I agree with the decision, but I do understand it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
11. Colonel Saul Tigh similarities to Capt. John McCain



Saul Tigh is a line officer and former Colonial Viper pilot (though never as accomplished as the Adamas or Kara Thrace), approximately 60 years old. Memorabilia in his quarters suggest that he flew with a squadron named "Vigilantes".<2> His father, a viper pilot, and grandfather, a Presidential advisor, were also named "Saul Tigh." He has struggled with alcoholism for much of his life, a problem that stems from Posttraumatic stress disorder connected to the First Cylon War and his depression after he was mustered out of the fleet. Despite this, he has excellent tactical skills and is fiercely loyal, especially to William Adama.

He is regarded as a hothead and mentally weak by his superiors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Tigh


Great Show that deserves the accolades it has been awarded. The suicide bombers and occupation story
was a great political allegory to the Iraq war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-18-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. Dupe/ deleted
Edited on Sun May-18-08 11:03 AM by Ichingcarpenter
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC