Dear Hillary: You had it easy.

[cali]

No, not from the media, but from Obama. There's any number of juicy things he could have thrown at you. He didn't. You? You took the kitchen sink route. And now, as you've lost, you just can't stop yourself from keeping it up; scurillously attacking the person who will almost certainly be the democratic nominee. You can't stop lying. Yes, lying. You do not have the popular vote lead. And you know it. And attacking Obama for not condemning sexism? Hillarious in a black humor kind of way. You've happily used gender when it suited you. Obama has never used gender to attack you. You have used race to appeal to certain "hard working" voters with pale complexions.

Had you only managed to control yourself and your campaign this last couple of weeks, you could really have done some good. But nope, you just couldn't do it. How sad.

Sincerely,

a middle aged white woman democrat.

[BlooInBloo]

1. True that.

[papau]

102. Bull that - Obama had it easy - but the OP is just another Obama "uniter" of the party

[Lucky 13]

136. How can you say Obama had it easy?

do you not recall the WEEKS the press spent on Rev. Wright?

[hfojvt]

156. if you figure that the campaign began in March 2007

and the media spent most of that time gushing over Obama as a potential rival to Hillary while they took down John Edwards over his house, his haircuts and while Hillary was taking all kinds of flack from Tucker Carlson and Chris Matthews and Tim Russert and people selling Hillary nutcrackers and Leno and Stewart mocking the "cackle".

The media didn't set their sights on him until he was basically the nominee. If they had done in October, November or December in 2007 what they did in April 2008, it might have been a much different race.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

154. EASY? hardly. the problem is obvious.

Hillary hired shills and creeps like Wolfson, grison, penn, solis doyle, and others. They made it harder than it should have been.

Obama hired pros, and ran a great campaign, clean and above board. They made it seem easy.

When something this complex, with 50 states, and several territories seems "simple", it is because of the hard work put in by the candidate and staff. While Hillary was busy demanding presidential suites, flying a separate plane away from media, BO and staff worked hard. THAT IS WHY IT LOOKED EASY. Even during Hill-Bill's major league rabid dog, kitchen sink, lie-based fool court press on him, he maintained his cool, and persevered.

[dchill]

196. 'another Obama "uniter"'

And you are...?

[Heathen57]

218. perhaps you didn't read the OP

The topic wasn't about the media, but rather how Obama treated his opponent. He treated her much more above board than she deserved after she pulled her kitchen sink attacks, IMO.

He could have torn her up over several things, but he played fair and square and the voting public have responded. If you look at the way this campaign has played out, every time she pulled one of her attacks, her negatives would creep up. People are tired of the politics as usual BS. Hillary and the DLC still haven't plugged into that yet. They still think they should use the Repub playbook and use any dirty trick to win.

Barack has run a relatively clean, aboveboard campaign. And he won with that. He understands, Hillary and her ilk (DLC) don't.

[MonkeyFunk]

2. Yeah

except for that whole racist thing. :eyes:

[PM7nj]

6. When did Obama ever call Hillary a racist?

Answer: Never.

[BlooInBloo]

21. (crickets)

[PM7nj]

38. Why am I not surprised? nt

[OneSelf]

160. Just another "drive by"

Quite sad, really.

[judasdisney]

177. (more crickets)

[papau]

104. The coward Obama had his campaign manager David post NH chg the subject w/ "racist" labels for

innocent statements

It is known as "playing the race card".

Deal with it.

[ExPatLeftist]

119. How about translating that to English and providing some proof

rather than just (poorly) re-stating the baseless attack?

[The Wizard]

201. Hilbots remind me of someone

Oh yeah, here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWSjUe0FyxQ

[indimuse]

115. Have a dose of TRUTH! I F*CKING DARE YOU!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEQV4K1eFjI&watch_response "RACE BAITING BEGAN WITH OBAMA!" - TYT"THE RACE THINGS OUT THERE ALL OF SUDDEN, IT WASN'T OUT THERE BEFORE"- TYT


Right befor goin into SC...JJJ (Jesse Jackson Jr/ Jr CO/Chair of Obama's Campaign...STILL!!!!!!))Accused Hillary Clinton of being a RACIST on National TV. Just after hre HUGE primary victory! Obama was scared! Hillary's #'s with AA comminity was GRRAT!!! BEEEEEFFFFOOOORRRREEE THE Obama camp began their campaign to PAINT THE CLINTON'S aS RACIST! Obama HAD TO!


Obama Says Clinton Is ‘Bush-Cheney Lite’
By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE and MICHAEL FALCONE
Published: July 27, 2007 July 27, 2007 July 27, 2007 July 27, 2007 July 27, 2007
Senator Barack Obama continued to press his case against Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton yesterday, calling her “Bush-Cheney lite,” which prompted her to fire back GET IT??????

— on camera — that the escalating dispute with Mr. Obama was “getting kind of silly.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqhAJcHy4a0 BUSH CH LITE
“I’ve been called a lot of things in my life,” Mrs. Clinton said on CNN, “but I’ve never been called George Bush or Dick Cheney, certainly.”

[ExPatLeftist]

118. In what sort of Bizarro world

does "Bush-Cheney Lite" = "racist"

Damn some people are stretching...


BTW Let me know if I misunderstood something - your post was almost unreadable.

[Lucky 13]

138. I'm sorry, but your post is just idiotic.

How is saying she is "Bush-Cheney lite" playing the race card?

This doesn't even make any sense.

[rosesaylavee]

164. What is Ignored saying?

:rofl:

[dchill]

200. Ignored is saying...

Poop poopy poop "Bush-Cheney lite" = racist poop poopy poop.
:shrug:

[LSK]

141. how the fuck is Bush-Cheney lite a racist attack??? are you nuts???

[Jester Messiah]

184. Wow...

Hillary's folk even spell like freepers. (Badly.)

[Nederland]

193. The phrase "Bush Cheney Lite"

...was a reference to the GOP nominee, not Hillary.

That would be obvious if your clip had included more than 12 seconds of his speech, but then it wouldn't have suited your purposes would it?

[PM7nj]

204. You sound like a 5 year old child. nt

[progdonkey]

216. ah, random capitalization and multicolored text...

The sure sign of a thoughtful, rational mind at work.

:eyes:

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

153. I see lots of straw man attacks from that one.

[cali]

12. Just like your candidate, you have a truth problem. Obama never

ever called Hillary a racist or insinuated that she was. Hillary damn well did use both race and gender against Obama. She did what was expedient- or what she thought was expedient.

[greguganus]

14. He's got the hots for Hillary. n/t

[Heather MC]

116. Let's face it's the Double Standard. Imagine if Obama had run his campaign like HillBilly...

What if
Obama
ran his campaign into 20 million in debt
Lost 12 states in a row
claimed black voters will not vote for Hillary
Had a campaign manager that didn't know how the pledged delegates were allocated.
Had a campaign manager with a conflict of interest, and was making a deals for a free trade agreement with Columbia.
Had a campaign manager that was supposedly fired for the conflict of interest but is still on the payroll

What if Obama only campaigned to black people.
Cried after Iowa,
Lied about being shot at
Lied about NAFTA

Started every speech with I AM THE FIRST VIABLE BLACK CANDIDATE, AND HILLARY IS THE FIRST VIABLE WHITE WOMAN CANDIDATE.
And had no way to Mathematically, or MAP-matically win

The DEMOCRATIC Party would have forced him to quit way back in March.
They placated Hillary b/c she is a Woman, they allowed her to run her campaign into the ground b/c she is a woman. That's more sexist to me, than if that had forced her to face reality and get out of the race when the boat starting sinking, Now it's completely underwater. And is still trying to blame everyone else.
Her Campaign was a self drowning, it's the worse kind of Suicide.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

155. Mrs. Clinton is given the courtesy

that Mr. Obama would have been denied not because of her gender, I believe, but because of her husband, Mr. Clinton.

[BrklynGreenDog]

207. This post is one of the most offensive I've seen on this site.

And that's a pretty amazing feat. Where to begin with so much misinformation in one post? The ignorance, complete disregard of truth, lack of citation or fact checking, the assumptions of personal motives, character assassination, the vituperative disdain for any other viewpoint.

Truly shameful, and otherwise unworthy of comment.

[roguevalley]

50. self delete. not worth the effort

[grace0418]

98. Good choice. Never argue with an idiot...

...They will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

My husband found this quote the other day and I thought it really applied in many instances on DU. I've been making a lot of "self delete. not worth the effort"-style posts lately, too. Now I think I may just post that quote. Well, at least when I don't have the person on ignore.

:hi:

[Name removed]

69. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Colobo]

82. Why don't you give an example?

[EmilyAnne]

83. Obama never called Hillary racist.

[papau]

105. The coward used his staff and media plants

[ExPatLeftist]

123. Prove it or STFU

Must be fun just making shit up and thinking that it "convinces" people of something.

"He called her a racist!"
"Prove it."
"Well, uh, HE didn't, he made other people do it!"
"Prove it."

Now back to you. Please now post your next round of nothingness obfuscation and teenage tactics. This is sadly entertaining.

[jgraz]

180. I know. I hated when he planted those questioners at the town hall.

Oh wait...

[Occam Bandage]

107. Yeah, except for that whole "HRC used race-baiting bullshit and Obama never called her on it" thing.

[redstate_democrat]

3. I don't know what she could do to repair her image.

Right now it's in the tank. She's played every card she could play and it backfired. Pubes are on notice!

[corkhead]

13. she unwittingly did him, us, Democrats, Americans, and the World a huge favor.

I have chosen to not despise her for that reason.

[Kahuna]

37. True that. She introduced many of the racist attacks the repukes will

trot out in the fall. By the fall voters will yawn when the repukes trot them out again.

[TBF]

64. Actually I don't agree. It's not like we wouldn't guess that's what the republicans would do.

What else would they do? Obama deserves all the credit for running an organized, efficient, clean campaign with a message that resonates with millions of people. Hillary, by contrast, ran an ad declaring that she and the republican nominee were the only two capable of running the free world. Frankly, I disagree. I would say that she and that senile old guy should write their books, go on the talk shows together, and call it a career. GO OBAMA!

[ginnyinWI]

71. but the prolonged primary has been a positive thing

Not so much about HRC or Obama, but the fact that it's gone on without being wrapped up has gotten so many more people paying attention and registering to vote. The fact that they've gone from state to state to state will have people more engaged and they will want to vote in November. Obama's had to campaign for real in each state, and he's won them over fair and square. No taking any group or state for granted, and the people know it.

We've had the excitement on our side, and the Repubs only have boring old McCain with his grumpy speeches. He's Bob Dole all over again, and I smell a landslide.

But only if we all get united. And the time is soon coming for that. For us partisans it's been way, way too long--but for the average voter, just long enough to find it interesting and for them to get involved before it passed them by while they weren't looking, like it usually does.

[TBF]

152. It is true that average people who are not particularly partisan or even

interested in politics are not very engaged yet, accept for being annoyed by high prices & laughing at the jokes on the talk shows. So you would think (and I'm sure this is how the Clintons think) they could fight it out this summer and get ready for fall, when people are back to work/school, focused, and start noticing a presidential election is coming up.

But I would still argue that Clinton should've bowed out earlier. Obama, with the cooperation of the DNC, could've continued to do the voter registration drive. We didn't need Hillary for that. I don't see that she's added value by staying in the race. All she has done is drive herself deeply into debt and caused large riffs amongst the democrats. I wouldn't give her any kind of prize for that.

[jgraz]

181. Introduced? Or opened the door for?

Most Repugs have zero credibility on race issues, so if McSame brought it up it would likely be laughed off in the media. But to have a fellow Democrat start the race-baiting legitimizes the whole enterprise. I think Hill did McSame a much bigger favor than she did the Dems (and she knows it).

[Cha]

40. hilary is an object of pity and

scorn. She's the last person who wanted to do us all a favor but got shredded by the Law Of Unintended Consequences, inadvertently, highlighting Obama's strengths.

She can stop her demagoguery anytime now.

[VolcanoJen]

17. Ummm....

... pubes?

:rofl: :puke:

[charlie]

30. The Clarence Thomas subset of Republicans

Repubelickans.

[YDogg]

20. Pubes, or Pubs?

:rofl:

[greguganus]

29. Her pubes are on notice?

:wtf: :puke: :wow:

[BlooInBloo]

35. Not if they manscape!

:rofl:

[AZBlue]

60. I suspect she'll lose her seat in the Senate too.

I hope she makes the most of these next four years - they'll be her last.

[jgraz]

185. I certainly hope so. We need a leader in that seat

I suspect she won't be too fussed about it. Senate seats are for peasants.

[K Gardner]

4. K&R for TRUTH

[Joyce78]

5. It is finally time for you Obama supporters to wake up ...

George Bush issued the typical Karl Rove challenge and Barack Obama bit. This isn't swift-boating yet. Let's wait until the GE. Obama proved he's a novice at this and so is his wife.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. Okay, I'll bite, how would your candidate have handled it? nt

[Politicalboi]

114. She probably

Would have cried. :cry: It's her last defense.

[Lucky 13]

140. "Shame on you GW Bush! Shame on you!"

That'll learn him!!

[SeattleGirl]

9. WTF?

Did you pull that one out of your backside?

:shrug:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

10. And as you will not be voting for him, you are looking forward to an Obama/Democratic loss.

It is a sickness, or you are not a Democrat.

[VolcanoJen]

19. "and so is his wife."

What the hell happened to you? I thought you were da bomb back in 2004. Didn't seem to get much of a kick out of the Rovians attacking John Kerry through Theresa back then.

It's really sad, you know that?

[roguevalley]

53. go away. you lost. chew on that for a bit.

[Gore1FL]

61. He bit alright

and drew Bush and McCain blood.

[Divernan]

88. Art Rooney/Steelers owner & many Steelers have endorsed Obama - so lose the Steeler avatar

as long as you're dissing Senator Obama and his wife. Mr. Rooney has never publicly endorsed a presidential candidate or ANY political candidate before.

Bet you're really upset that the international community and Pope Benedict and the Red Cross et al are in Dublin trying to get a ban on cluster bombs - what with HRC supporting them and all.
Source: BBC News

Diplomats from around the world are gathering in Dublin for a conference that aims to secure a treaty banning the use of cluster bombs.The proposed ban has the support of more than 100 countries.

Humanitarian organisations say a binding treaty is now urgent because the weapons cause unacceptable harm to civilians. But some of the world's main producers and stockpilers - including the US, the UK, Russia and China - oppose the move.


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7407631.stm

And re HRC's vote against banning use of clusterbombs on civilians (but hey, the war profiteers doubtlessly made it worth her while to vote in their favor:
http://mediabloodhound.typepad.com/weblog/2008/02/hillary-vs-obam.html

UPDATE: Just to be perfectly clear, Senator Clinton voted against banning the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas. Her vote was not against banning the use of cluster bombs altogether. Think about that: Should our military be permitted to use cluster bombs in civilian areas, with each exploding bomb covering the range of a football field? Yes or no? Senator Clinton said yes. Senator Obama said no. Here is the exact text, straight from Senate Amendment No. 4882:

Sec. 8109. No funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act my be obligated or expended to acquire, utilize, sell, or transfer any cluster munition unless the rules of engagement applicable to the cluster munition ensure that the cluster munition will not be used in or near any concentrated population of civilians, whether permanent or temporary, including inhabited parts of cities or villages, camps or columns of refugees or evacuees, or camps or groups of nomads.

Any questions?
Here's a little more info for ya - just to show you how your candidate has abandoned the true principles of feminism to endorse her inner macho male:


In July 2003, UNICEF's Representative in Iraq, Carel de Rooy, explained why children are drawn to these unexploded bomblets:

“Cluster bombs come in interesting shapes that are attractive to children,” said de Rooy. “Many children are injured or killed because they see a shiny metal object, sometimes in the shape of a ball, and they have to go and pick it up and play with it.”

And as Reuters reported last May:

Some 400 million people around the world live and work in what are effectively minefields, at daily risk of death or maiming by cluster bombs, according to a report issued on Wednesday.

The report, from the campaign group Handicap International, said over 13,000 civilians are known to have been killed or injured in recent years by the bombs, but that the real figure was probably many times higher.

In the wake of armed conflicts "unexploded cluster submunitions turn homes, livelihoods and social areas of 400 million people living in affected countries into de facto minefields," the report said.

[Occam Bandage]

108. He didn't "bite," he turned it around and went on the attack. That's what we have to do. Didn't

the swiftboating of John Kerry teach you anything?

[MercutioATC]

168. Obama didn't "bite", he hit it out of the park.

The Repubs are going to make ridiculous statements about Obama in the GE. The problem is that the electorate is so apathetic and ignorant that a segment of them will believe those statements.

When a softball like this comes along, Obama would be a fool not to jam it back down their throats.

[Jester Messiah]

186. BS

The playground bully took a swing at him, and Obama gave him a black eye for his trouble.

[FrenchieCat]

7. Hope you are sending to her through the contact page on her website.

:thumbsup:

[City Lights]

11. K&R

:thumbsup:

[VolcanoJen]

15. Word.

High-five, cali!!!

[iamthebandfanman]

16. the hypocracy of her supporters

is never ending.

just like they proclaim sexist thinking behind media coverage when ive talked to alot of her supporters who say they are voting for her because 'its time for a woman to be president, weve waited so long'

im sorry, but picking someone based on sex is sexist in itself.

[DemGa]

18. Except for constantly assaulting Clinton's honesty and integrity

-- in broad fashion. Profiting from, and fostering the continuance of the right-wing smears Hillary endured. Maliciously injecting false charges of race-baiting.

That's called character assassination - and you Obamas own it. Enjoy.

[cali]

22. Just like your candidate, you wouldn't know the truth if it hit

you broadside. Pathetic. Have fun watching her final losing days.

[DemGa]

47. No, I do see the truth - and it is a difficult one

But it is a better path, I think, than hiding away in denial. Enjoy your win.

[tabasco]

23. Got any examples?

I'll be standing by for the numerous links.

[DemGa]

39. Alright, here's a few

“People have heard a lot of things that just aren’t true from the mouth of the First Lady, from the mouth of the former president, from the mouth of the campaign," said Robert Gibbs, Obama’s communications director.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/8002.html

Senator Clinton has consistently made political calculations to deliberately mislead the American people and the voters have noticed.

it’s time that Senator Clinton be questioned aggressively about this pattern of misleading voters.

A history of misleading voters

just the latest in what has become a legacy of misleading voters.

It’s time for Hillary Clinton to explain these inconsistencies—and to put an end to the dishonesty.

http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-memo-on-clinton-misleading-voters/

Q. Has she been truthful to voters about what she would do as president?

A. “No.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/27/us/politics/28q-aobama.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Obama responded: "Hillary's idea is that we should force everyone to buy insurance. But this is yet another issue where she is not being straight with the American people"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/25/AR2007112501030.html

Obama Accuses Clinton of Deception:

charging her campaign with attempting "to deceive the American people just so that they can win this election."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/09/AR2008030902005.html

"You all know the okey-doke — when somebody is trying to bamboozle you, when they are trying to hoodwink you."

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20080311/1a_bottomstrip11_dom.art.htm

The Obama campaign made its clearest suggestion yet that the Clinton campaign is deliberately crossing the line on Obama's race and other attacks in a conference call today with reporters.

Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod, grouped former Rep. Geraldine Ferraro's suggestion that Obama owes some part of his success to the fact that he's black with other gaffes by Clinton backers Robert Johnson and Bill Shaheen, and with Clinton's "own inexplicable unwillingness" to flatly deny that Obama is a Muslim in a "60 Minutes" interview.

"All this is part of an insidious pattern that needs to be addressed," he said.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/Axelrod_Clinton_campaign_has_insidious_pattern_on_race.html

http://www.attacktimeline.com/

[D23MIURG23]

59. This is softball compared with the stuff she has thrown at him.

What is the standard here? Its OK if Hillary throws kitchen sinks, but Obama better never question her policies or integrity?

[Gore1FL]

62. And which of those are incorrect statements?

[EmilyAnne]

86. How are any of these examples SMEARS? This is ridiculous.

[DemGa]

124. Repeatedly calling someone dishonest -

Broadly attacking them on honesty and integrity - this is called character assassination. They did it to Gore in 2000; and again, it was a Democrat who led the smear (Bill Bradley).

Of course this smear campaign from Team Obama is likely unparalleled. And quite obviously, full use was made of the right-wing attacks against Clinton - the Obamas simply co-opted those right-wing generated perceptions. All delivered under the mantle of "new politics."

I don't know why this is hard to see. Really, I don't.

[Laurab]

132. The Clinton team launched an "unparalled" attack on Obama.

"I don't know why this is so hard to see. Really, I don't."

I watched my Senator (Hillary Clinton) play so dirty that I no longer recognized her. I can't help but wonder what primary you've been watching.

I had no problem with Hillary Clinton prior to the pitiful excuse for a campaign that she's run, now it will be difficult for me to EVER vote for her again - for anything. I imagine many New Yorkers feel the same. She is my Senator, and I thought she was okay. No longer. What she has done to lose my respect, she has done to herself.

Republican talking points - check. Constant attacking on lies and innuendos - check. Insinuating the REPUKE contender was more qualified than her Dem competition - over the line, and the final straw for me, although there was so much more.

Warnings from Dem leaders went unheeded, causing respected Dems to throw their support behind Obama early. They can see it, why can't you?

I had the utmost respect for Bill Clinton prior to this campaign. I no longer have any. His praising of McCain, race-baiting speeches, red-faced lectures, how they have demeaned this former President.

It's really very sad. In some Clinton supporter's worlds, up is down, losing is winning, day is night, and they accuse Obama supporters of being "delusional".

Anyone watching this primary with an open mind would see the Rovian campaign the Clinton's have run. It is the main reason she is losing, IMO. You can't see it because you don't WANT to see it.

I believe some Clinton supporters just do not want a black man running this country. It's the only possible reason I can find for the hatred toward the man who has clearly run the better, cleaner, more inspirational campaign, and the man who, if you bothered to learn about him, will undoubtedly make a damn good President.

[jgraz]

187. They didn't call her dishonest. They pointed out her dishonesty. There's a difference

A difference you can't see in your blind rage at having your queen dethroned.

[ExPatLeftist]

126. What's with the constant bait-and-switch???

I see this all the time here lately: An individual Clinton supporter claims that Obama himself made accusations that the Clintons were racists - or as you say "charges of race-baiting", then when called on it, they anounce that it was Obama working "through others" that made those claims, and when asked for proof of THAT we get either silence or a list of criticisms about issues and tactics, but not a "Hillary Clinton is a racist" quote or anything similar to it in sight.

Tell me, what sort of "logic" do you have to "learn" that makes "Hillary is a racist!!!" = "Hillary's idea is that we should force everyone to buy insurance. But this is yet another issue where she is not being straight with the American people"


Give up the BS and get behind the Democratic nominee. No one is buying this shit.

[GarbagemanLB]

24. As you said, it's just part of the vetting process for Hillary. Sorry if you can't take the heat.

[DemGa]

43. Umm, a vetting process is different

than making broad and general accusations against someone's honesty and integrity; which is, in fact, character assassination.

But I think we've been through this before!

[shellgame26]

91. If someone says one thing

then does another and you point that out that's not a character assassination that's exposing the person's hypocrisy. Too bad you can't tell the difference. BTW, Hillary assassinated her own character when she made up that story about landing under sniper fire. Obama didn't do that SHE DID IT TO HERSELF. DEAL WITH IT.

[graycem]

93. A vetting process..

so when Hillary tries to paint him as a friend of terrorists or radicals like Ayers and Farrakhan, that's "vetting" and he/we should be grateful since the Republicans will do this anyway. Yet, when Obama questions something she said or one of her plans and insinuates it's misleading, that's character assassination?

It's really amusing how you don't see the irony in this.

[DemGa]

145. No, and I will point it out once again

Broadly and repeatedly maligning someone as dishonest (as the Obama campaign and Obama himself has certainly done against Clinton) is the slander of which I'm speaking. It's pretty straight-forward.

It's speaking repeatedly in general terms of Clinton as dishonest, calculating, "do anything, say anything" - all attacks aimed at character. Do you honestly believe it is incidental or without manipulation that so many attacked Clinton a liar - morally corrupt?

A classic smear campaign - Umm, "New Politics."

[Maria Wr]

151. DemGa, please

DemGa is just baiting the respondents. I was ready to vote for HRC (56 AA woman) over O. I was pleased with my candidates. But when HRC said civil rights wouldn't have happened without a president to write the law,and dissed MLK, and Bill started with his *wink* innueundos, hell,they both threw my constituency under the bus. Then the wright mess came up. She had the opportunity to take the high road, she did not. She used it to discredit him and the black church as well. I've been to a lot of churches with demostrative preachers and I wouldn't mind going to Trinity. They love the Lord too. That is why HRC lost the AA vote. All she has left is the quasi-femmes and poor whites who don't know any better. She WILL do anything and say anything (gas tax holiday anyone? )I want some one I can trust to tell the truth-that's not HRC. Hell, she couldn't keep reins on Mark Penn, he was so after the money.

[graycem]

182. I honestly believe

a great deal of people had that opinion of Hillary before the first vote was cast. She's done that to herself. She reinforced it with Tuzla. Psst, she is dishonest.

So, classic smear my foot. He has been walking a tightrope this entire time, fully aware he's had to do/take things regular candidates wouldn't have had to, simply because he would be perceived as unfairly attacking Hillary. No matter how many times she punches, the minute he strikes back, she claims "the boys are being mean." Of course you don't see that, I don't expect you to.

New Politics doesn't mean roll over why your opponent paints you as a possible muslim terrorist/sympathizer, no matter what their party label is.

Now which is? Obama is a master campaigner and viciously attacked Hillary under the radar, and that's why she's losing? OR Obama is a glass-jawed naive newbie who will lose to McCain in the fall since he can't close the deal?? He can't be both.

[gmudem]

26. The race-baiting was and is very real

And I'd love to see some evidence of the Obama "smears." Good thing he didn't have to deal with any right-wing smears that Clinton took advantage of.

Besides the Muslim smear, the flag pin smear, the Pastorbating, not black enough, too black, bittergate, etc. etc.

"Hillary Clinton isn't a Satanist, as far as I know."

[VolcanoJen]

27. Assaulting her honesty and integrity?

Obama never once hit her on that Bosnia whopper, and you know it. You KNOW IT.

Those charges of race-baiting weren't false, they were spot on. And Obama never once called her or Bill out on it. The most recent example, "Hard-working white Americans," isn't race-baiting? In what world is that that clean and good and innocent and nothing-to-see-here? Planet Atwater, maybe?

Character assassination? Spare me. Cali's right. Obama took it easy on her, and he won the nomination by sticking to the issues, and taking the straight-and-narrow on the high road. Obama's well aware that the VRWC is for real, and it's aiming its sights at him next. I have full confidence that he's going to make all of us proud, whether you're too wrapped-up to see it, or not.

But your accusations are baseless. Nonsense. Hyperbole.

[DemGa]

42. Obama's been busy pretending "new politics"

All part of the charade - his campaign was certainly busy attacking Clinton on Tuzla. It is not me making baseless charges, but rather you've been shammed.

Obama Camp Memo on Clinton’s “Exaggerations” in Her Domestic Record

Senator Clinton’s claims about her visit to Tuzla, Bosnia—and the footage disproving her account—have created quite a stir. And with good reason. As the Associated Press wrote <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_campaignplus/20080325/ap_ca/on_deadline_bosnia> yesterday: “What makes Clinton’s situation unique—and the Bosnia embellishments so damaging—is the fact that the New York senator has built her candidacy on the illusion of experience. Any attack on her credentials is a potential Achilles heel.”

http://thepage.time.com/obama-camp-memo-on-clintons-exaggerations-in-her-domestic-record/

[VolcanoJen]

49. Of course his campaign hit back on it. That's the job of an Oppo Shop.

The same way Howard Wolfson is no shrinking violet. But Obama's camp kept the candidate clean, while Hillary's team sent her out to make some truly awful comments herself.

Hillary's overpaid campaign staff sucked, and you know it. They didn't protect their candidate. Read all about it, and be sure to read between the lines as they each take their turns blaming her, anonymously, of course.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=f7a4a380-c4a4-4f84-b653-f252e8569915

[shellgame26]

So now it's Obama's fault that Clinton lied?

The fact that you have to bring up that embarassing episode of her campaign in order to defend her shows how weak your argument is.

:rofl:

[DemGa]

149. No, it proves the surreptitious attacks put out by the Obama campaign

While Obama himself plays the role of being "above it all."

Just as Obama claimed in a debate he never used Tuzla against Clinton - when his campaign certainly had done so. It's the stunning hypocrisy many of us see.

[The Wizard]

205. Hey, DemGa

You're a Republican aren't you? It's either that or you'll vote Republican hoping Hillary can make her last run at the presidency in 2012.

[shellgame26]

222. unFREAKINGbelievable!

YOu're actually bringing up Tuzla-gate to defend her??? Her lying about that didn't bother you at all??

[ExPatLeftist]

127. So now candidates cannot point out hypocrisy and exaggerations

in other candidates??? Are you complaining that the Dems are going after McCain's hypocrisy now? Do you think that ANYTHING that the Clintons threw at Obama were over the top, or is it pretty much limited to pointing out hypocrisy and dishonesty based on Hillary Clinton's own exaggerations and lies?

[silverojo]

32. HRC has no honesty or integrity

How could Obama have possibly attacked nonexistent qualities?

(Sorry, sorry...couldn't resist.) :rofl:

[YDogg]

34. "false charges of race-baiting?"

The clintons would make Lester Maddox proud.

[BlooInBloo]

36. Your candidate is a lying, race-baiting warmonger...

Whether or not you agree, there's nothing REMOTELY *sexist* about it.

[roguevalley]

55. go. away. until. you. grow. up. she lost fair and square.

[Politicalboi]

117. Sniper Fire

Anyone?

[Lucky 13]

142. She assasinates her own character everytime she opens her mouth.

Hillary knows how to shoot herself in the foot better than anyone I've ever seen.

[LSK]

144. what did you say? I cant hear wtih all this sniper fire going on

[Vote4Change]

148. If The Shoe Fits!

I dont' see how it is even the least bit unethical or inappropriate to assail Hillary's lack of honesty after her dishonest claims about dodging (non-existent) sniper fire in Bosnia or throwing a (not-yet-invented) book bag across her room upon hearing of Dr. Martin Luther King's death, etc., etc.

I also fail to see how Obama can be accused of character assassination when the target of this alledged assassination has no character!

[H2O Man]

25. Interesting thread.

I will respectfully disagree with part of the idea of Senator Clinton having it easy. I think that it is more accurate to say that her campaign had invested a lot of time and energy on planning a route to the White House which never anticipated Barack Obama.

There was plenty of hard work, but it was done with a sense that the party would embrace her after a relatively short primary, and that the more difficult contest would be the general election. There is little doubt in my mind that Senator Clinton is a work horse, and that for the past 7.5 years, had been preparing for this time.

TIME had an interesting article last week, on the six errors the Clinton campaign made. It could be summed up by saying that they were anticipating something very different than what Obama's campaign has become. I think it has more to do with systems and the types of authority that Clinton and Obama represent, than anything else.

[cali]

28. Obama held back on attacking her. She did not do likewise.

That's the point. Simple as it is.

[H2O Man]

31. I agree with that.

You are right about that. I think that it fits the idea about the difference in authority: "politics as usual" versus "change you can believe in."

[DDQ]

44. You all have been making nasty remarks about Clinton and her

gender since this began. Keep going. It shows a lot about "change you can believe in"

[apocalypsehow]

56. ...

:cry: :cry: :cry:

[DDQ]

58. Case in point

[Gore1FL]

63. how is crying a gender issue?

I think it is a natural part of being a human. I am a male and have cried many times.

[DDQ]

66. Gee I seem to recall it was raised repeatedly in the campaign

[Gore1FL]

67. She actually got a bump out of in in NH

but that doesn't make it sexist. Muskie cried too.

Am I in touch with my feminine side when I cry, or am I simply in touch with my human side?

[Major Hogwash]

57. Naw, Obama never even really went after Hillary. He ran a positive campaign.

She ran a stupid campaign, and she lost and that is all there is to it.

This thing went downhill for Hillary clear back in February, on Super Tuesday.
Hillary didn't even get as many delegates in her own home state that she thought she would.
So, now we have to wait another week or so for it to be over and then move on to McCain.

[ExPatLeftist]

128. ALL of us?

Show me where I said anything about her gender.


The Democratic party is supposed to stand AGAINST broad-brush generalizations about vast groups of people. If you REALLY think that all the individuals are identical that chose, after analyzing the situation, to support Obama, then you really need to study logic.


It's just a few small steps from "ALL Obama supporters are..." to "ALL <insert any minority group here> are..." because the way of thinking is identical. "I have seen 100 Obama supporters be rude and sexist, therefore all Obama supporters are rude and sexist!" You could replace "Obama supporters" with anything else and it sounds just as stupid. "100 people that wear size 11 shoes have been mean to me - they are all bullies!" Here's a hint: Some people are assholes. It has nothing to do with shoe size or candidate of preference. The world is not black and white and people are individuals that cannot be lumped together based on individual traits. I know that may be difficult to understand by those that prefer to live in a black-and-white world, but it is a FACT.


I honestly thought that thinking like that ended around the age of 13. Guess I was wrong. Truly sad, especially that such ignorance has invaded our Democratic party, which has stood against that thinking and has always held up people as INDIVIDUALS rather than a generalization based on a single shared trait.

[ruggerson]

41. she wil "say or do anything to get elected"

was something he routinely said and uttered it in the first few debates, pouncing on her over the driver's license issue (which he fudged on as well).

It was clearly designed to echo and push a rightwing narrative of her as a scheming, calculating, overly ambitious liar.

If you don't think that's a character attack, there's not much I can do to help you.

I'm sorry I got sucked into this thread, it's venomous and pointless.

[ExPatLeftist]

129. And she has proven him right on that front. n/t

[PassingFair]

45. They underestimated the fact that the PEOPLE would vote for

ANY VIABLE anti-Iraq war candidate before we would
vote for Hillary Clinton, given the chance.

Iowa and South Carolina pierced her veil of inevitability.

[H2O Man]

46. The Clinton campaign

appears to have underestimated the way her vote that allowed Bush to invade Iraq would be viewed. That may be in part because, except for Obama, the other top tier candidate had voted the same way. Edwards would say that he had erred in his vote, but that was different than Obama's speaking out against the invasion before it happened.

Of the other candidates, Dennis Kucinich may have been the most clearly opposed to the war. However, the Clinton campaign viewed him as able to attract limited support from the progressive margins of the party.

Iowa and South Carolina certainly showed she was unprepared for the type of campaign Obama was running.

[PassingFair]

52. I agree completely.

Note the use of the word "viable".

Edward's mea culpa didn't really hold water.

[Blue_Roses]

94. I think this is really the "nuts and bolts" of how

things were suppose to be in the minds of the Hillary campaign. Like you said, they never estimated that Barack Obama would be such a formidable candidate, therefore, lacking in "plan B." It's enlightening to see that the people--we the people--are not living in a semi-conscious world just because we have an idiot in the WH now. On the contrare. The "people" are smart and it shows that not only are they ready for change in Washington, they are looking to the future by opening the doors to the first AA President.

I find that VERY exciting, especially after watching the interview this morning on GMA with Barack and Michelle Obama. They make it "real" and our country is hungry for it.:D

[Lerkfish]

170. absolutely. They had no plan B

so they scrambled and came up with "kitchen sink".

it was a poor strategy and might have worked if they were targeting republican voters.

it was woeful mismanagement on a biblical scale, and Obama didn't even really need to do anything. As the saying goes, never interrupt your opponent when he's hanging himself.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[knixphan]

48. Hillary got off easy. Now the gloves come off.

Obama-McCain is the battle we showed up for.

Let's get it on! I want my country back!

[southern_belle]

51. k & r n/t

[apocalypsehow]

54. Spot-on. K & R. n/t.

[PBS Poll-435]

65. Dear OP,

:eyes:

Thanks

[Jim Sagle]

68. Whadda crocka chickenshit bullshit.

[cali]

77. ah, so honored to have your usual perspicacious

commentary gracing my thread.

[jgraz]

175. Well, you're just a poo-poo head.

Sorry, was that response too sophisticated for you, Jimmy?

[Jim Sagle]

221. No, but it was subtler than what most Obamabozos could come up with.

[jgraz]

227. Funny that the only one spewing mindless insults is you.

[Jim Sagle]

229. You have a reading comprehension problem if you think so.

Either that, or a truth admission problem.

[jgraz]

230. Oh, so maybe you can explain the hidden meaning in "Whadda crocka chickenshit bullshit."

See, it doesn't help your spin if your posts are still hanging out for us all to read.


Kind of like all those Tuzla videos that turned up.... Boy, did you pick the right candidate.

[ruby slippers]

70. PS. If he offers you the VP spot, you had better curtsy!

[FrenchieCat]

72. yep!

He was so restrainted, he was being called names like wimp, etc.

I doubt I could have held back.

[guruoo]

73. IMO, blaming Hillary for throwing their kitchen sink back at them.

F**king neo-hypocrites.

[FrenchieCat]

74. How that happened? The Obama campaign didn't choose to use

the kitchen sink. It is still in the kitchen, intact. Remember?

[guruoo]

80. Sounds like one of those 'winners get to write the history' kinda thangs.

[ExPatLeftist]

130. Let's see some examples.

I'd also really like to see one of the people making these sorts of statements do an analysis of the tactics used by each campaign that is weighted by offensiveness. I cannot for the life of me understand how ANYONE, even a die-hard Clinton supporter, could look back on this campaign and say that Obama had been more negative and underhanded.

Sounds like either projection or simple delusions to me.

[barack the house]

75. I appreciate you highlight your background it means more from you.

[Wetzelbill]

76. He was frustratingly easy on her

Especially during the whole run up to the primaries, when she was supposed to be inevitable. I remember wondering if he had what it takes to beat her. I am not and wasn't an Obama voter, but it seemed to me like he was going to go down without even swinging. Then John Edwards really took it to her with his populist platform, and to Obama to a lesser extent. Then all of a sudden both Edwards and Obama started to catch on with the "change" thing. She's too much of an insider by now, she couldn't compete with them in Iowa. By then Obama was poised to make a battle of it and she wasn't prepared to go past February 5th. No plans. She ran a very bad campaign. The run up to the campaign she was solid, but it was a bit of a house of cards, because the media started catching on to her, saying she was "responsible" and "inevitable." But Iowa hurt her. Fortunately for her, New Hampshire is Clinton Country, if she had lost that she'd have been seriously on the ropes. I didn't think he had it in him to fight back, but he did. Edwards helped him out at first with the fighting back and he got stronger as things went on. Also, even though she won some big states like Ohio and Pennslyvania, those were big pro-Hillary states, and he closed gaps in them fast. People have to remember, Hillary is an icon, she's been around for 16 years, she's been First Lady. She's one of the top few most famous women in the country and the world. For Obama to beat her is a massive upset.

Did it get rough? Yeah, he personally never pulled out the types of attacks that she did. There is no Obama equivalent to her saying that both she and McCain brought a lifetime of experience and Obama only had a "speech he made in 2002." Her race language was iffy. It wasn't straight out racist, but she was riding a fine line on a touchy topic. But his campaign isn't perfect. They had the race memo, where his staffers sought to exploit the Clinton's race related comments. Hillary also had staffers do some bad things like sending out pictures of him in Somalia etc. He ran to the Right of her on health care, by eschewing mandates, and she ran to the Right of him on foreign policy by putting forth the 3am ad, and talking about obliterating Iran. I would say as a whole, her campaign was much dirtier. She had to be, to tell you the truth. After he won 11 in a row in February, he effectively won the nomination. It's really been over since then, but she had a glimmer of hope, so she went out and tried to take him out. Most of it was fair, I think. Hard, but fair. The racial language, she should have stayed away from it, flat out, but as dirty as it is, I'm not so sure it was totally out of bounds. She didn't inflame it the way Republicans do. The worst I think was her comments alluding to McCain being prepared to lead and Obama not. That was way below the belt, imo.

It really depends on what she does now, she's been beat for nearly two weeks, if she keeps trying to severely damage him, which I think she's toned down on, that would really be egregious. I think she's winding down though, she promised to stay in it, she has to still be coming to terms with it being over, probably pissed off, hoping for some miracle etc. It can't be easy to let go of your life's dream like that.

[Perry Logan]

78. Don't piss her off, Cali. We need her to pick up the pieces after Obama gets creamed by McCain.

[cali]

79. Snap out of it, Perry. Obama will run circles around McCain.

He ran a great campaign against the far more formidable Hillary. He'll do the same and then some against McLame. I know you long for McLame to be beat Obama so you can you indulge in "I told you so", but it's very unlikely to happen. This ain't 2000 or 2004 and the repuke party is on life support.

[jgraz]

176. Give him a break, Cali. These Hill supporters have no clue what a quality candidate can do.

Let him cry it out, first. Then (maybe) he'll figure it out.

[shellgame26]

103. Because obviously It's Mccain you're voting for

I honestly don't know what some people are doing here at DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.

[Lerkfish]

171. "ignored" is sowing as much discord as possible.

that seems to be the only objective at this point.

don't feed them.

[MethuenProgressive]

81. "Easy"? Obama apologized for Swiftboating the Clintons on race.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MethuenProgressive/551

RUSSERT: In terms of accountability, Senator Obama, Senator Clinton on Sunday told me that the Obama campaign had been pushing this storyline. And, true enough, your press secretary in South Carolina — four pages of alleged comments made by the Clinton people about the issue of race.

In hindsight, do you regret pushing this story?

OBAMA: Well, not only in hindsight, but going forward. I think that, as Hillary said, our supporters, our staff get overzealous. They start saying things that I would not say. And it is my responsibility to make sure that we’re setting a clear tone in our campaign, and I take that responsibility very seriously, which is why I spoke yesterday and sent a message in case people were not clear that what we want to do is make sure that we focus on the issues.

Now, there are going to be significant issues that we debate, and some serious differences that we have.

OBAMA: And I’m sure those will be on display today.

What I am absolutely convinced of is that everybody here is committed to racial equality — has been historically. And what I also expect is that I’m going to be judged as a candidate in terms of how I’m going to be improving the lives of the people in Nevada and the people all across the country, that they are going to ultimately be making judgments on can I deliver on good jobs at good wages; can I make sure that our home foreclosure crisis is adequately dealt with; are we going to be serious about retirement security; and are we going to have a foreign policy that makes us safe.

If I’m communicating that message, then I expect to be judged on that basis. And if I’m not, then I expect to be criticized on that basis. That’s the kind of campaign that we want to run and that we have run up until this point.

RUSSERT: Do you believe this is a deliberate attempt to marginalize you as the black candidate?

OBAMA: No.

[ProSense]

84. Stop spreading distortions

When Hillary's camp cites "memo" as race card, they always leave out the details before and after it

more

[MethuenProgressive]

95. Call Obama a liar all you want, but he said what he said

[not_too_L8]

99. Yes and he said.... notice the second line?

our supporters, our staff get overzealous.

They start saying things that I would not say.

And it is my responsibility to make sure that we’re setting a clear tone in our campaign

[cali]

85. He certainly did not. And your exerpt demonstrates that he did not.

He was gracious. He accepted responsibility for a rather innocuous memo that detailed some of the Clinton outrages. He did not like hilly, try to divide by race and gender. And in case you've forgotten your candidate had to apologize on at least 3 seperate occasions- and she did one of them in person, so grave was the Clinton offense. And that's not even mentioning that Billy had to go on an "apology" tour of black churches in CA.

Oooh, and don't forget Hill's pollster in NV saying latinos have a problem with blacks and won't vote for a black candidate. Or:

Hilly's "hardworking white people" comment.

Bill's gratuitous Jesse Jackson comments

Johnson's drug dealing crap.

Shaheen's drug dealing crap.

Bob Kerrey's Madrassa lie.

The Muslim emails in Iowa.

Cuomo's shuck and jive comment

And more.

[MethuenProgressive]

97. Another victim of Obama's Swiftboat heard from...

He asked you to stop.

[cali]

101. He asked his supporters to nice to Hillary supporters

He did not ask us to accept deplorable hillary swiftboater who are trying to destroy the almost certain nominee, with falsehoods and smear attacks.

[DemGa]

87. Obama supporters talking points always trace back to the BO campaign

The "race-baiting" accusations are a good example - as low-down as it gets.

[cali]

89. the Clinton Camp did it. They own it. Period.

[Texas Hill Country]

133. actually, no they didnt. it is invented bullshit, and it makes me sad that people cant see that.

[jgraz]

178. See, above the Mason-Dixon line, we know dogwhistle racism when we see it

Maybe you're just a little too close to it down there in "Hill Country".

[Texas Hill Country]

179. i grew up in Los Angeles and in New York... I just happen to live here now

thanks for the snark tho

[jgraz]

188. Sorry, just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Now I'm left with only one sad conclusion.

[Texas Hill Country]

189. that you are wrong? it's ok, apology accepted.

[jgraz]

190. See, now you're just reinforcing it.

But actually there are three possible conclusions: 1) You actually are thick enough to have been dup'd by the Clinton spin machine or 2) you know exactly what went on and you're just being dishonest or 3) you think racism is just fine.

So help me out... which one is it?

[Texas Hill Country]

199. i know exactly what happened, and think you got caught up in the Obama spin

[Occam Bandage]

109. Swiftboating? Obama took responsibility for an internal memo detailing possibly-racist

comments by the Clintons. Obama said no, that wasn't what he wanted to see from his staff, and said that he didn't want to see that going forward.

[MethuenProgressive]

125. RUSSERT: "Do you regret pushing this story? OBAMA: Well, not only in hindsight, but going forward.

RUSSERT: Do you believe this is a deliberate attempt to marginalize you as the black candidate?

OBAMA: No.

[Texas Hill Country]

210. thank you

[ExPatLeftist]

131. Main difference about this and the swifboat attacks on Kerry:

The swiftboat attacks were not true.


But honestly, if you cannot see the difference between lying about someone's military record and pointing out a candidate's own words, then I cannot help you.

[Texas Hill Country]

211. nice way to wait till the end of the primary to make nice... how disigenous can you get?

[EnviroBat]

90. Well said Cali, well said...

:applause:

[meow mix]

92. high road vs the gutter

shes the worst democrat of the moment.

[Texas Hill Country]

212. obama went beyond the pale gutter with the racist meme, sorry

[yellerpup]

96. Another middle-aged white woman wants to know

why we are still arguing over Hillary's (non-existent) chances when we should be looking forward to the GE. K&R, Cali. :kick:

Edit for smilie

[BlueJac]

100. Tomorrow will be a great day, Obama will go over the top!

:popcorn:

[Scriptor Ignotus]

106. a point that is worth repeating

well said.

[Dystopian]

110. K&R from another middle aged white woman.

peace~

[Apollo11]

111. Listen sweetie - the Obama campaign has consistently gone negative against Hillary

The Obama campaign put out fliers saying that Hillary Clinton will force everyone to buy healthcare - "even if you can't afford it".

In speeches, Obama has called Hillary a hypocrite on a whole range of issues from dealing with NAFTA to dealing with OPEC.

Then the Obama campaign whines about tame tactics like the "3AM" ad - and pretends that the Clinton campaign is "negative".

There was nothing negative or anti-Obama about the 3AM ad. But Team Obama has been punching against Hillary from Day One.

[ExPatLeftist]

134. So now pointing out differences on the ISSUES is verboten as well?

Is that for everyone or only Hillary Clinton?

[jgraz]

174. Any criticism of the Queen is verboten.

Didn't you get the memo?

[Texas Hill Country]

112. HAHA, you guys are so full of it... i love how no one seems to remember other elections and seem to

keep buying every bullshit meme thrown at you...


- Hillary fought dirty

- the Clintons are racist

- Obama has a halo over his head

- Obama is not a corpratist

- Obama is not a machine politician

- Obama actually knows what he is talking about

- Hillary went for the throat

- there is no difference between Hillary and McCain/Bush (anyone remember the meme about no difference between Gore/Bush?)

- the Obama camp has never made a sexist remark

- the Media is biased for the Clintons


hmmm... what other total bull has been floated?

[ExPatLeftist]

137. What's that, a laundry list of delusion?

How about backing up your allegation that Obama said any of the crap that makes up your straw man argument?

Or is that what you are claiming? It is very hard to understand what you are trying to say there...

Seriously, "Obama actually knows what he is talking about"... Is that supposed to be a valid point about anything other than your own sour grapes?

[democrank]

113. Hillary Clinton got a lot less than she deserved from Obama.

To this day Clinton can not admit that she screwed up. She spent all her time and energy moving to the right with the real men, starting with enabling Junior Bush to invade and occupy Iraq. She never, even with multi-millionaire consultants, glanced toward her left. That`s where the grassroots wing of the Democratic party was gathering.That`s where the call for change was happening.

I worked and marched for the Women`s Movement for a long, long time. That`s why I would never vote for someone based on their gender. We`ve had enough of that in this country. Clinton was obviously more certain of her entitlement to the nomination than many Democrats were.

Listening to Clinton is like listening to more DLC crap. I`ve had my fill of both.

[ExPatLeftist]

135. Well said! n/t

[pnwmom]

120. Why the continuing efforts to put HRC and/or her supporters down when

Obama is clearly the winner?

Too bad Obama's supporters don't have enough confidence in him and his judgement to follow his request to reach out to the HRC people now and lay off on the criticism.

[jgraz]

191. Because they are still supporting Hillary, still fighting Obama, still hurting the party

Once they stop, I'll stop.

[pnwmom]

209. It's not hurting the party. Obama's in the same position that McCain was

when Huckabee kept running past the point where he could ever have won. It didn't hurt McCain and it won't hurt Obama. In fact, it's giving Obama a chance to be the gracious, confident winner.

To bad his supporters don't follow suit.

[jgraz]

219. Key word: *was*

McCain has had a free ride in the press while Obama's been getting slammed by Hillary and her surrogates. And -- this has to be said -- for absolutely no possible gain for Hillary. She has zero chance of winning the nomination. Zero.

In addition, donors have been getting tapped, places like MoveOn and Emily's List are burning through cash, all for nothing but Hillary's ego.

All she has to do is accept reality, drop out and endorse Obama, just like all the other losing candidates did. At this point, anyone still supporting her run is supporting a McCain victory in the fall, plain and simple.

[pnwmom]

223. I disagree, and so does Obama. n/t

[jgraz]

224. The hell he does. He's saying what he has to, but he knows what's going on.

[pnwmom]

225. I go by what he says. I don't pretend to read his mind.

But what he SAYS makes a great deal of sense. And I KNOW how smart he is, so I believe him.

[jgraz]

226. What he's saying makes very little sense, and goes against what most Democrats think

Most Democrats who aren't supporting Hillary, that is.

He's saying it to protect the delicate sensibilities of Hillary supporters. But he's certainly capable of seeing the same thing everyone else is seeing.

[pnwmom]

228. I don't know how you can say what "most" Democrats think about this.

I've never been part of the HRC camp, and I'm happy to support Obama now (I'm assuming he'll be the nominee). And, I, unlike you, believe that he means exactly what he says. He's not dissembling.

[ekwhite]

121. Cali, I respect you, but

why post flamebait? This kind of post doesn't do anything but stir up controversy. I see no point in it now.

[emilyg]

162. I don't respect Cali.

[cali]

169. well, I respect you. and respect me or not, you have no right

to call me out. do it again and I'll alert. Thanks.

[Politicalboi]

122. I agree

She had it easy. Hillary Chameleon did this to herself.

[jgraz]

139. Not true. There are people who spent this entire campaign destroying her character.

Their names are: Bill Clinton, Terry McAuliffe, Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson and -- especially -- Hillary Clinton.

[Lucky 13]

143. Precisely. She shoots herself in the foot.

Her slimy tactics blew up in her face and revealed to the world the ruthless, self-promoter she is.

[hisownpetard]

146. So true, cali. Imagine if Hillary had to campaign against... Hillary.

My eardrums ache at the very thought.

[Cary]

147. The whys and wherefores are yesterdays' news

Today's challenge is to make sure McCain has no seat in the Oval Office without an invitation from President Obama.

We all win, or we all lose.

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

157. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

161. sure. you just dropped in to tell us that.

go back under your bridge or back to Free Republic. YOU are not a democrat. You are what rhymes with poll and stroll. Just strike the s on the latter word, (s)troll.

[jgraz]

173. Hey, that also rhymes with asshole!

What are the odds?

[LiberalLovinLug]

172. Freepers are Stupid

"i think some of you are really repugs cheering b.o. just to get mc cain."

"after reading your crap, i am voting for mc cain."


:rofl:

Oh and they're lazy as well. How much effort does it take to hold down the 'shift' key for capitalization?


edit: original freeper post removed. Really, sometimes its helpful to keep them up. It shows the level of maturity and logic we are fighting against. Like shooting rubber ducks in a barrel.

[cascadiance]

158. He could have easily minimized the Reverend Wright issues by NAILING her on "The Fellowship"...

... and her religious ties to Rick Santorum, John Ashcroft and the like who were in that "prayer circle" over the years with her...

But he chose not to. She's got to know when it is time to STOP this BS! At some point it will be brutally clear that she's not only hurting Obama and the Democratic Party and herself, and ONLY helping some corporate campaign contributors that are asking her to do this to help advance their agenda by "keeping Obama at bay"...

[DrZeeLit]

159. Count me! Me, too! Middle aged white woman Democrat here...waving wildly!

[natrat]

163. DLC crooks-no other explanation

[Willo]

165. Character assassination as per Wikpedia

Character assassination is an intentional attempt to influence the portrayal or reputation of a particular person, whether living or a historical personage, in such a way as to cause others to develop an extremely negative, unethical or unappealing perception of him or her. By its nature, it involves deliberate exaggeration or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person. For living individuals, this can cause the target to be rejected by his or her community, family, or members of his or her living or work environment. Such acts are typically very difficult to reverse or rectify, therefore the process is likened to a literal assassination of a human life. The damage sustained can be life-long and more, or for historical personages, last for many centuries after their death.

In practice, character assassination usually consists of the spreading of rumors and deliberate misinformation on topics relating to one's morals, integrity, and reputation.

In politics, perhaps the most common form of character assassination is the spread of allegations that a candidate is a liar. Other common themes may include allegations that the candidate is a bad or unpopular member of his family, has a bad relationship with his spouse or children, is disrespected by his former co-workers, or routinely engages in disturbing, socially unacceptable behavior, such as sexual deviancy.

[Willo]

166. Well said Cali. Even with Kentucky

she is telling them, "Obama said he would not come back".

Now, is that necessary? On your way out the door and you try to alienate yet another state against Obama.

She just can't be decent.

K&R Cali

[invictus]

167. K & R

[RelativelyJones]

183. He never mentioned Monica

in any context during the campaign.

[Bensthename]

197. I was sure he was going to mention that jizz stained dress.

:rofl:

[literacyadvocate]

192. History has shown...

that people like Obama who choose to travel by the higher road may take a hit in popularity when they are attacked, but eventually they come out shining like the gold that is dug out of the dirt.

[pdxprog]

194. Huzzah from another white woman...

...although both "white" and "woman" are quite incidental to how I identify, particularly as regards this election. "Educated person who values social justice and ethical behavior in general" comes closer.

Senator Clinton's attempt at dividing us along gender and race lines has alienated and appalled me. Even my mother, who as an old white feminist woman is in one of Clinton's target demographics -- I remember Mom bringing home and showing me the first issue of Ms. Magazine in 1972 and regularly holding feminist consciousness-raising meetings in the house throughout the 1970s -- now feels the same way, and she voted in the NY primary for Clinton, making her decision at the last minute on the basis that it was time for a woman president. I suspect many of Clinton's early supporters are no longer truly on that bandwagon, looking on in horror at how the Repub-style slash-and-burn tactics were subsequently ratcheted up by the Clinton campaign. Perhaps my mother is too well-educated for Clinton to value Mom as a potential member of the true base anyhow.

MLK said: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." For purposes of this discussion, one might also paraphrase King with "judged by the configuration of their genitalia" -- and, despite our undeniable legacy of both sexism and racism and the subtle and not-so-subtle ways in which each comes out at times, I believe both of these things.

From that perspective, if we believe we want the best policies for our country, that we want an end to war and a renewal of our prosperity and our moral standing in the world, for Senator Clinton to cry foul or to attempt to rally support on the basis of gender or race insults our intelligence. Say what we will about the Bush administration, one thing its composition has helped prove is that the left does not have the market cornered on diversity -- and yet the female, the black, and the ever-expanding list of gay Bush administration members do not represent us. Whether we work to elect the first partially-black POTUS or the first female POTUS, this is not about attempting to even the score by filling an Affirmative Action position. At this time in history, maybe more urgently than any other before it, we need the best *people* in charge.

Perhaps Senator Obama is offering up the Oprah presidency, but you know, I don't necessarily have a problem with that. He avoids insulting my intelligence and he inspires me to action -- both of these in a way no other Presidential candidate in my lifetime has done (I was born 5 years after JFK's assassination, if it matters). I can say that in spite of my insanely busy life and tight budget, if President Obama put out the call to American citizens to organize and better our neighborhoods, to feed our neighbors, to rebuild our cities, and if he crafted foreign and domestic policy to give us all greater wherewithal to do it, I would not hesitate. Senator Clinton's cynicism, endless word-parsing, prior votes for war and recent statements about obliterating other countries inspire nothing of the sort.

[Bensthename]

195. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

Damn it.. :argh:

[renie408]

198. I keep wanting to start a thread asking this, but I am afraid I will be blown to bits....

Why IS Hillary still running? What can her possible motive be? Leverage? For what? A position in Obama's campaign or administration? I don't get it...

[sfaprog]

202. K&R

:dem:

[ShortnFiery]

203. This middle aged white woman for Obama FEARS that HRC will continue with her SCORCHED earth

policy all the way to the convention. She's still touting the "I've got the most votes" meme AS IF popular vote was the criterion for the democratic nomination. Further she WARNS Obama and the "mean ole' sexist media" NOT TO DARE call Obama the Presumptive Nominee even if he gets 2025. You know HRC and her surrogates have changed the delegate rule to 2210.

Further, any HOPE that Wes Clark would be asked to be VP was nixed by the man himself shamelessly claiming that it's far from over. I kind of knew Wes Clark was no ally of Obama when, during the hit-job ABC debate, the camera panned over for a perfect Cameo of this "perfumed prince." :puke:

It's time for HRC and her surrogates to decide if they care about the PARTY or only their own reckless ambitions.

HRC hasn't a PRAYER for 2012 if she continues to spew lies and refuses to call Obama by name ("my opponent").

[wowimthere]

206. She thinks that perception is only chance. Republicans used it. Too late Hillary.

I don't want you anywhere near the Obama ticket. You are a republican.

[loyalsister]

208. Maybe she took one for the team?

She compromised her values and approved a campaign that resulted in extreme demonizing of her own self. What's new about the demonizing, been there done that eh?

This is my most optimistic hope regarding the nightmare these primaries have become.
As another poster pointed out, Obama is coming out of this primary as strong as he possibly could. Fully vetted. It appears to me that the trade off will be that the Veep will need to be either a woman or someone who carries a lot of strength on women's issues.

Is it possible that she has actually sacrificed her ambitions and reputation- (at least until the memoir is published- I am still reasonably cynical)? Is there a universe in which such a scenario exists?

Another middle aged white woman democrat

[quickesst]

213. "You took the kitchen sink route."

That's bullshit, and everyone knows it. The "kitchen sink" in this primary is the one created out of the knowledge that certain tactics had to be used, and certain issues had to be exploited for an inexperienced, and until recently, little known senator to have a chance of winning. Some just choose to view falsities as truth, depending on what advantage they can get out of it. As for Obama's treatment of HRC, what a marvelous joke it is that O fans can't understand it is not Obama himself, but his worshipers who's mantra of hatred has dominated most liberal blogs, and the msm, with DU being among the leaders. Most HRC supporters haven't been nearly as personal in their vitriol toward Obama as Hillary-haters have. The only reasons O fans can't see it, is either because it's what they want to hear, or it's coming from their own mouth, or both. Approving, defending, and repeating dispicable slurs aimed at Hillary Clinton, and based upon the one trait that sets her apart from any other presidential hopeful in the past, is good, justified, and encouraged by Obama supporters. "Fucking whore" comes to mind as an example. And guess what? Noone is admonished, or banned. What O fans know, and what they are sure of, it there will be no such attacks by any DU member based upon the one trait Obama has that sets him apart from other presidential hopefuls in the past, for if any dared, they know too well the swift action that would be taken, not only admonishment, but punishment in whatever form is available. Obama fans have taken advantage of this, and like a brickbat, have beaten the bejesus out of everyone within range. That's pretty much it in a nutshell, and between the Republicans, and Democrats, it seems a fourth are the only ones still capable of using common sense and logic to it's full potential. The other three-quarters are "spellbound" by a caricature of one ideology, or another, with it seems, no chance of breaking the spells any time soon. Repugs have been at it for a very long time, and just think, app. half the democratic voters have only just begun. Thanks.
quickesst

[cloud75]

214. Re-watch the early debates Obama attacked like a mad dog but people

forget including you.

[pipi_k]

215. I see a silver lining in all of this

And that is that whatever Hillary threw at Obama will be that much less McCain and the Repubs will be able to injure him with in the upcoming months.

She has made it possible for Obama to hone his fighting skills, so to speak. Because lord knows, he's going to need them once he's officially the nominee and the Other Guys start jabbing at him like vultures pecking at a nearly dead critter.

I just hope he does fight back...immediately and effectively.

[acmavm]

217. When you've accomplished one one-thousandth of what she's done then

MAYBE someday, someone just might care what you think.

But I doubt it.

[Jakes Progress]

220. Ahhh, chortles Darth Rove Sidious.

Can't you just feel the hate. Feel it grow deep within you. We will rise on the tide of hate we foment between these two Jedi. We will bask in the glow of the dark emptiness that will take over the heart of each Democrat if we can just keep this going. The Sith lord was a little worried when the young Jedi appeared speaking of love and unity and inclusion. But his followers were easy picking. If we can just keep them at it, the dark lord will rule for another 8 years. We get them to hate each other and blame each other for the destruction we wreak. Who needs a death star when hate is so strong.