If the tables were turned, would you want us to hold this against Hillary?

[democrattotheend]

I have noticed several Clinton supporters say over the past couple weeks that it is too late to make amends, that we have alienated them with our (sometimes hateful and over the top) criticism of Hillary and it's too late for Obama to win their support as a result. It's one thing to vote against Obama if you don't agree with his policies, but to hold our behavior against him is insane.

Both sides have gotten overly heated at times here and said insulting things about the other candidate. If you don't believe Obama would be a better president than John McCain, that's one thing. But if you are willing to allow another 4 years of war in Iraq, another 4 years until we have a president who even tries to enact health care, another 4 years of cowboy diplomacy, and the possibility that a Republican president will appoint up to two Supereme Court justices because of things people have said on a message board, then you really never cared about this country that much to begin with.

For those of you who say it's too late for us to make amends and that you refuse to vote for Obama because of our behavior, I ask you to consider how you would feel if the tables were turned. Below are just a few of the many things that have been said about Obama here in the past week. If the tables were turned and Clinton needed our votes, would you want us to hold this against her?

Hopefully they have discovered the Cardboard Messiah is a Fraud

Name 1 thing that arrogant racist has done to bring people together.

And no "Obie-bots" said they would vote for McNasty if their Messiah didn't get the nomination??? Hmmmmmm.....

He's a rookie with a wafer thin record who should have waited until he had an actual resume before he decided to run for the highest office in the land. As it is, he does not deserve the presidency.

What's the difference between God and Barrack Obama? God doesn't think He's Barrack Obama.

He has been lying to the United States... Staging rallies, paying people to go to caucus states to vote for him, crying racism every time someone speaks!

when Barry lies, it's not a lie, because a saint can't lie. Really, honestly, he's not just another politician. Honest.

Let me know when Barry's babies stop. Because right now, I'd like to throw them out with the bathwater.

Obama is a cowardly, dishonest, substance-less crybaby.

Obama is a total jerk and an arogant opportunistic ass!

BHO the Precious One, is calling for hope and change, but, he has Kennedy Sharpton,,Kerry, Jackson, McGovern, Richardson, all the losers that you can think of that have in the Party for sooooo long.

I just think he's narcissistic, elitist, inexperienced, ruthlessly opportunist, has as much resilience as wet blotting paper, has a Svengali-like grip on his following, is burdened with a myriad of past shady associations, and has cynically used the race card against the Clintons.

I on the other hand, can't understand how anyone can fall for the snake oil salesman and his fake pitch.

[frogcycle]

1. I am not refusing to vote for anybody (but McCain)

I have never considered myself a "supporter" of either, and I think there is an abundance of asshole-ness amongst those supporting both. But I will be DAMNED if I will let the behavior of juvenile, obnoxious, snotty, name-calling brats influence my vote for POTUS.

I am voting for the Democratic nominee. Fuck their supporters :)

[JohnnyLib2]

30. I'm voting for the Democrat (in my 13th primary). Also a vote for

Frogcycle, who clearly understands the psychology of assholes everywhere and walks fearlessly apart from them! :thumbsup:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Mighty big "If."

Hillary or McThrowback? :dilemma:

Hillary in a second.

[gateley]

3. PLEASE tell me these aren't posts from DU!

I personally haven't seen any this hateful -- I'm hoping they're from another site.

[democrattotheend]

5. Nope, right here on DU

Do a search for "messiah", "Barry", "snake oil", "fraud", etc. Or just look at the posts of certain posters.

[gateley]

9. Sigh. That almost makes me cry.

The messages are so filled with hatred. :(

[SeattleGirl]

7. No, they are, sadly, from DU.

I recognized some of them.

Very sad.

[gateley]

12. It IS sad --

I guess I've been lucky to have missed these. :scared:

[frogcycle]

10. I recognize several

DU has its share of assholes. Many may be crossovers, part of a variation on "operation chaos"

I have so many people - from BOTH camps - on "ignore" my index looks like a redacted email from the White House. That is NO reason to refuse to vote for either candidate. I knew the world was full of assholes before the primaries started. That several people volunteered to verify that has nothing to do with either candidate.

[gateley]

16. Agree, frogcycle --

"Enthusiastic" supporters shouldn't keep anyone from voting for the best interests of our country!

:"...a redacted email from the White House"! :rofl:

[frogcycle]

20. thanks, but did you say what you meant?

"shouldn't keep anyone from voting against the best interests of our country"

[gateley]

24. Oops - I'll go correct it.

:hi:

[TahitiNut]

18. Good grief! I've seen all of that and worse.

I'm NOT an Obama fan by any stretch of the imagination. I think he's a realtively decent fellow with a lovely family, but a "centrist" ALMOST as far right as Hillary, perhaps not quite as deeply in the pockets of the corporatists, and with a markedly better character. The slack-jawed, knuckle-dragging, vile attacks on Obama and on Obama supporters have been noxious, imho, and far more vile than the attacks on Clinton.

[frogcycle]

25. i think its hard to quantify

the vitriol from both sides has been bad enough, that it is like asking which is bigger, a grande latte or a mongo-huge-o latte (or whatever they call the damned things today)

[gateley]

26. In Starbucks-speak it's Venti.

I knew you'd want to know. :7

[lastliberalintexas]

67. I think the attacks on Obama have been more blatant than

the attacks on Clinton, but the attacks against her have been just as vitriolic, if not more so. Both sides have more than their fair share of asshole posters who can't seem to shut up and listen, and some of those are probably disruptors who will disappear for some time after the nominee is decided. For a Socialist like me, it's been strange indeed to watch the 2 camps go after one another as they have, when there really isn't much AT ALL separating the 2. :shrug:

[SeattleGirl]

4. I am a Democrat, and I will be voting for the Dem nominee in November.

I much prefer Obama, but if Clinton gets the nomination, you can bet I'll be voting for her.

Anyone, in either camp, who says they won't vote for the Dem party nominee needs to take a serious look at themselves if they plan to stay home, or vote for McCain in November.

Anyone who would do that doesn't care much about women's rights, civil rights, the troops, or the Constitution, to name but a few.

[frogcycle]

6. anyone who would do that

is an idiot

[SeattleGirl]

8. Yep.

Total idiot thinking.

[gateley]

19. I've said before

that I will DANCE to the polls to vote against McCain, regardless of who our candidate is!

I'm too smart to shoot myself in the foot by taking any other action - or non-action.

[SeattleGirl]

22. And I'll be dancin' with you!

Obama or Clinton will be a damned sight better than McSame!

[jbnow]

43. I was always sure I would vote for the Dem. As the campaign

went on I knew it might be with more and more reluctance, but I'd do it.

But I have to admit I became honestly uncertain if that would be the right thing to do. For me I was very disturbed when our leading candidate was compared unfavorably by the other to the presumptive nominee of the other party. I had never seen that happen and I kept thinking "That was an ad for McCain. Whoever our nominee is, McCain can use that" It troubled me.
But it was the ABC debate where one candidate piled on, added to the frenzy, tying the other candidate to hate, Hamas, 9/11, Farrakhan, 9/11, bombs. Knowing none of it was true she smeared him to paint him as a scary person who can't be trusted. A person in our party did that.

I'm in my 50's and have never seen anything like it. I wondered is there some point where we say "this can't be rewarded"? Is there any line? Would that be encouraging future nominees to do whatever it takes?
I also know a lot of what has been done behind the scenes and it's even worse.

Our candidate not winning is never the reason to vote R, I had never considered it before. But if there is a line, what is it?

[apocalypsehow]

11. With all due respect, I feel you're wasting your time. The HRC boosters forfeited any understanding

or olive branches the day they decided to trot out Rovian right-wing talking points and use them against fellow Democrats while Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh - their new best friends - cheered on from the sidelines.

[frogcycle]

14. with all due respect

you just joined my ignore list
petulance is unbecoming

[apocalypsehow]

23. Oh, be still my swooning heart!!1! frogcycle put me on ignore! I might not sleep tonight...

:cry: :cry: :cry:

:eyes:

[jgraz]

13. Disgusting to see the white supremacist "Barry" nickname being used on this site

This is a dogwhistle to racists who know that calling Obama "boy" will not be tolerated in polite company. So instead, they choose an infantilizing name that basically means the same thing.

[MonkeyFunk]

32. Come on...

how is it "white supremacist"? It's the name he himself used in school.

It's mocking, it's derisivie, but it's not "white supremacist". That's just absurd.

If I said "Hilly" were horribly misogynist, you'd think it was stupid. But she's called that a lot here, especially by one prominent poster.

[leftofcool]

33. Didn't the Chicago Tribune

use the name Barry Soreto in several articles they wrote about Obama? Just asking because I thought I had seen an article in their archives that said he went by Barry and the last name of his step father who raised him.

[jgraz]

35. Yes, he went by Barry as a child. As an adult, he uses Barack.

See the connection?

[eridani]

49. I guess some just don't get the difference between Jimmy and James

Or Tommy and Thomas, or Chuckie and Charles.

[jgraz]

62. They get the difference just fine, and they know exactly what they're doing.

[RainDog]

15. this post explains why my ignore list grew by 25ppl when I came to gd-p

I really do not need to read this crap, but I am glad you have compiled and posted it so that it can be obvious that no one is a saint around here.

[TexasLady]

57. Same here.

My ignore list probably kept me from stooping to this kind of divisive crap. I like DU. I wanna stick around a while. :D

[leftofcool]

17. You overestimate Obama supporters' influence on my vote

Quite frankly, you don't have that much power

[democrattotheend]

21. Good, we shouldn't

That was the whole point I was making. Judge Obama on his own merits, not the behavior of his DU supporters.

Are you voting for him, or are you one of those who plans to sit it out, just out of curiousity?

[leftofcool]

29. I believe that votes are still private, at least when I woke

up this morning, I was still living in the US where they have been for over 200 years, so no doubt you will understand when this 63 year old gal tells you to mind your own business.

[democrattotheend]

34. Fair enough

Sheesh, sorry if I offended. You've been pretty vocal about who you support in the primaries, so it did not occur to me you would not want to share who you were voting for in the GE. Did not mean to offend you.

[emilyg]

47. Cheers!!!

[cali]

50. sure,but you lost that high ground when you repeatedly stated

here that you wouldn't vote for him.

[gateley]

27. Good -- and that's how it should be.

:headbang:

[TBF]

37. Good - because we shouldn't.

I've seen similar threads, lamenting that Obama supporters "made" them hate him, blah, blah, blah. It's just juvenile and passive-aggressive. We are each responsible for our own behavior and our own vote.

[BattyDem]

28. Who bases their vote on the behavior of message board rivals?

:shrug: :eyes:

[democrattotheend]

70. Apparently some people, based on comments I've read

Several insist they will not vote for Obama because people on a message board called them racist. Kind of ridiculous, IMO.

[Life Long Dem]

31. And we sit back and brush off the insults coming from Clinton supporters.

I kinda like that.

[woolldog]

36. Please, stop it with the handwringing.

You are reacting exactly the way they want you to. They're feeding off of it. And you only encourage this kind of nonsense. No more threads addressing those hreatening not to vote for th nominee or the democratic party. Knock it off. :thumbsdown:

[LaStrega]

38. voting for the Dem no matter what n/t

[BzaDem]

39. I hope you realize that there is at least 10x as much Hillary-hate here as there is Obama-hate.

I have seen much, much worse against Hillary. (One poster said they wouldn't mind if she were stoned.) And much, much more against Hillary than Obama.

I don't really hold it against Obama. I assume most people spewing this bullshit are just immature 18 year old idiots who have nothing better to do and have no understanding of American politics. Obama has done enough on his own for me to form judgments about him, thank you very much. (Though of course I would support him or anyone else in the general.)

[democrattotheend]

42. That's because there are more Obama supporters here

And I agree with you about them being immature 18 year olds, mostly. Although I have seen some immature posts from people who claim to be older.

Glad you don't hold it against Obama, and will vote for him in the general. This was in response to a couple other posters on another thread who basically said they were not voting for Obama because of the way some DUers behaved.

[Yukari Yakumo]

40. Surrender Terms for Individual Members of the HRC camp.

#1. If you had a pro-HRC avatar and/or signature, then you must switch to a pro-Obama avatar and/or signature for at least 3 months.

#2. Keep your profile enabled.

#3. Acknowledge Barack Obama as the nominee.

#4. Acknowledge Hillary Clinton lost the election.

#5. Apologize to Malia Ann and Sasha for eating their hamster.

#6. Post a picture of something blue.

[BzaDem]

41. This reminds me of something that you probably don't want to be associated with.

[RandomKoolzip]

44. I really hope no one complies with this list.

[Yukari Yakumo]

46. I meant it to be ludicrously over-the-top as to be not taken seriously {nt}

uguu

[democrattotheend]

69. In 2004, I would have kept my Dean avatar

Even though I voted for Kerry.

[bhikkhu]

45. One more dissent - nobody needs to do this.

Any more than everyone had to affect a Kerry avatar in 2004. None of it is really so hard - I'd settle for stopping the Hannity talking points, and voting for the Dem come November.

Substance vs. symbol.

[rove karl rove]

48. remarks in the heat of battle

there's still months before the election to heal and unite for the nominee.

[democrattotheend]

68. I hope so

I admit that the "Clinton Supporters Count Too" protests are freaking me out. As if anyone is saying they don't count. They just don't happen to be quite as numerous; therefore their candidate lost.

[rucky]

51. On a board with thousands of active members

this isn't all that bad, really.

They're getting the attention they crave.

[Perry Logan]

52. For most Democrats, being called a racist is a deal-breaker. That's why Obama can't win.

I keep pointing this out to Obamites. Half of them deny the charges; the other half repeat the charges.

[Forkboy]

53. For most Democrats, being called a sexist is a deal-breaker. That's why Hillary can't win.

I keep pointing this out to Hillbots. Half of them deny the charges; the other half repeat the charges.

[Perry Logan]

54. I believe it's called "echolalia."

I think racism is a thousand times worse. Plus the Obama people really ARE sexist.

[Forkboy]

56. You are in for one rough summer.

:hi:

[Perry Logan]

58. I'll be OK so long as the popcorn holds out.

[cali]

60. You're off the rails now.

have been for a while. Methinks you'll need something stronger than popcorn. Maker's Mark, perhaps?

[cali]

61. You're off the rails now.

have been for a while. Methinks you'll need something stronger than popcorn. Maker's Mark, perhaps?

[Perry Logan]

63. You can say that again.

[Perry Logan]

64. You can say that again.

[Vinca]

55. A country with John McCain as president is a bigger deal breaker.

Obama supporters have been called sexists and cultists, Hillary supporters have been called racists, but in the end what matters is whether we elect a Democrat or not. If not, this country will be changed for eternity. Elections get heated, although usually not to this extent in the primary. But the bottom line is, both candidates positions are very, very similar and the polar opposite of McCain's. To allow McCain to be elected for any reason is not an option.

[Perry Logan]

65. To quote e. e. cummings: "There is some sh*t I will not eat."

[democrattotheend]

66. When has Obama called you a racist?

Please point to evidence where he has called any Democratic voters racist.

[genna]

59. OT: I'd be hackering for concessions from Hillary if the shoe was on the other foot

Race would be upfront, in her face.

If her base is white voters, if I was negotiating for a graceful exit on BHO's behalf, I'd ask her what her reforms would be---compared to Bill Clinton's administration---in favor on non-white voters. She could have an administration that looked like America BUT would she have administration which understood and pressed Congress for votes on issues which effect minorities. Would she be willing to trade homosexuals in the military---don't ask don't tell---for crucial policy considerations in a legislative process?


If she didn't come out and publically put these issues front and center after the negotiations I would ask BHO to fight on.


It makes no sense to cut my nose off to spite my face in GE with McCain. I'd vote for the race baiting HRC, but I'd be demanding Dean do something about forcefully saying race is a fact of everyday life in America. No race or culture (includes these immigration issues) should be pilloried in a run for office. It is inexcusable and defies history/everyday life reality.


It should be noted civil rights/human rights organizations have not burned either BHO or HRC for the politically untenable statements and actions in this primary season. At least they have made in this election.