Roe v Wade! Roe v Wade! Get On the Bus or Lose Roe v Wade!

[NashVegas]

Find another one, will ya? It's not working.

[DemVet]

1. K&R

[papau]

78. agree - indeed given a Dem Senate it is LOL to use as a "uniter" of the party

[Texas Hill Country]

102. no kidding... i am not worried about SCOTUS at all.

[last1standing]

131. Alito was confirmed by a Democratic senate.

What gives you the impression that other nominees just as conservative wouldn't be confirmed?

[WeDidIt]

2. If women want to be petulant children

and lose the right to choose, they have every right to hold their breath until they become second class citizens again.

[CreekDog]

19. women are not a monolith

most "people" who care about Roe v. Wade will vote for Obama. of those who will not, they cannot claim that as a woman they couldn't vote for Obama since so many women will vote for him.

[WeDidIt]

32. But that's precisely the argument peoplelike the OP

and Geraldine Ferraro are making.

It's really sad.

[Elspeth]

71. You know, if I said "If African Americans want to be petulant children" the post

would be deleted, as this one surely will. But you can say anything against women, right?

[aquarius dawning]

98. Hey, quit being uppity.

[Texas Hill Country]

103. agreed.

[ecstatic]

142. You don't get it. HRC is losing based on the rules that they both agreed on

Obama has been extremely gracious and classy towards Clinton. He didn't gender bait. He didn't try to switch the rules midstream. WTF are you so angry about?

[LisaM]

151. I don't think he's gracious.

I think he lets his surrogates initiate things, then steps back and pretends to be above it. I don't find that admirable in the least.

[MattBaggins]

80. Since it is OK to bring up Obama's AA "padding"

would it be OK to consider the possibility that many of those "Hillary or McCain" women voters are of a "certain age" and might not care one iota about Roe v. Wade?

EDIT

I should have read down thread. I was correct.

[NashVegas]

84. This Is a Conversation

Some older women started having way before this election season. They are no longer affected by Roe, or are losing their ability to be; meanwhile, younger women aren't picking up the slack. There's a general feeling of, "why should I bust my ass for something I can't use and am only going to be called names for, by the very people who need it most?"

[MattBaggins]

90. Wow boogeymen are everywhere.

Amazing how Hillary not winning is proof that young women are "slacking" or turning their backs on them.

[NashVegas]

108. Wow, People Are Making Shit Up Left and Right

I neither said nor implied any such thing.

[MrsT]

3. How about "Sen. Clinton is smart enough to support the Dem nominee"

are you?

[reggie the dog]

39. that works for me

If she comes out after the primaries and endorses the nominee and holds on to her senate seat she could very well be the next Senate Majority Leader. She could get the whips out to make sure all the important votes went correctly and that president Obama could sing lots of great reforms into law. She will still be young enough to try to run again in 8 years.

[MonkeyFunk]

59. Under what scenario does she

not "hold on" to her Senate seat? The only one I can see is her becoming Vice-President.

[reggie the dog]

65. bingo

[cali]

4. It's not about fear. it's about facts.

please read Toobin's recent article. Vote or don't vote for Obama, but don't kid yourself about Roe's durability under a McCain administration. It's simply foolish to do so.

[WeDidIt]

5. Four Solid Votes to OVERTURN ROE Already Exist on the court

All they need is one more.

At least two and probably three appointments will happen in the next four years.

Ya gotta look at the odds and wonder what some people who claim to be feminists are really thinking.

[cliffordu]

92. DING DING DING We have a winner!!! That's exactly right.

[LeFleur1]

105. Why Would McCain's Presidency Be Worse than Bush's?

There has been a Republican majority for 7 years, and 4 before that. If they wanted Roe V Wade gone, it would be gone.
It wouldn't be prudent.
I'm not sure Obama would support Roe V Wade, anyway. Is there a statement saying he does?
Just pointing things out. I will be voting Democratic if the platform is right.

[Boojatta]

130. "There has been a Republican majority for 7 years, and 4 before that...

... If they wanted Roe V Wade gone, it would be gone.
It wouldn't be prudent."

Good point. Republicans just continue their existing policies and never implement anything new. That explains why the troops have been in Iraq for 92 years and why McCain would need to keep them there for just another 8 years to achieve a grand total of 100.

[last1standing]

132. Congress can't override the Supreme Court. That's why it wasn't done.

The Supreme Court is the final interpreter of the Constitution. In order to override a Supreme Court ruling, congress would need to enact an Amendment to the Constitution which would be nearly impossible.

However, if one more ultra conservative ends up on the court, there will be a majority of justices who favor overturning Roe v Wade and it will be done.

[NewHampshireDem]

6. You are entirely correct ... so let's take a look at what could be on the line

http://www.now.org/issues/judicial/supreme/#decisions

Some highlights:

Equal pay
Equal opportunity
Access to contraceptives
Educational opportunity
Protection for victims of domestic violence


Take your pick. Which ones don't really matter?

[OzarkDem]

11. But, but, but

Feminists are EVIL

Gender discrimination doesn't EXIST

Women in this country already have EQUAL RIGHTS

or so say the Obama supporters....

Since the younger generation doesn't appear ready to learn from the past, then let them fight those battles anew. Its their future.

[NewHampshireDem]

30. Keep digging, you'll find a pony in there someplace

'cause you sure aren't shoveling the truth, are you?

[cliffordu]

93. Complete bullshit. I support Obama and I have NEVER said

anything approaching what you have written there.

I have called Hill a panderbear in a pantsuit, but that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

[msallied]

107. Nice strawman. n/t

[muryan]

119. Be happy the people of the generation before you

did not share your attitude, and they fought hard so that you could have the rights you have today. So thanks for saying that you wont stand with women of the next generation

[Peacetrain]

158. It matters

Why would you want your daughters or granddaughters or great grands to have to fight those battles again.. I do not understand your attitudes. In the 70's I was part of a group that fought to make sure that women could not be committed to institutions just on the say so of a family member.. why would you want anyone to have to fight those types of battles again.. it is more than roe v wade.. this is about a movement to overturn those strides that we fought so hard for..

Would you truly truly not vote for the democratic candidate if that candidate was not your original choice.

And that is what this comes down to.. supporting the democratic candidate no matter who it is Senator Obama or Senator Clinton.. to sit out this election, is to support the party of the neo cons who view strong women as feminazix

[Fox Mulder]

165. This Obama supporter doesn't think that at all.

[NashVegas]

145. Yes, And I'm Sure All of Those

Are very, very important to the DCCC.

:sarcasm:

[Buzz Clik]

7. So, you're voting for McCain?

And you're convinced he won't load the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v Wade?

[WeDidIt]

8. He's already said he'd appoint more like Alito

Bye bye Roe if McCain is elected. It will be inevitable.

[jsmirman]

9. Seriously. If it's not working, you either don't care about Roe v Wade or you're too stupid

to realize that the position that Roe v Wade is doomed under McCain is entirely correct.

Just because you don't fucking get it doesn't mean it isn't 100% correct. Sheesh.

But when you help McCain get elected and Ginsburg and Stevens are replaced, be sure to come back here and tell us all how proud you are of how stupid you're being.

[Buzz Clik]

20. You really need to direct your ire to the OP and not me.

[jsmirman]

26. I was agreeing with you. When I say "seriously" that's my version of ITA.

The whole post was directed at the OP.

[Buzz Clik]

43. Okay, thanks. We agree to agree.

[jsmirman]

46. Now that's a new one!

Agree to agree? OK!!!

[cliffordu]

94. Please don't agree here or I'll have to alert the mods.

[jsmirman]

135. We can't help it

we know this is an agreement-free zone, but it just didn't work out.

:shrug:

[Barrymores Ghost]

150. We agree to disagree about agreeing to agree.

Can I have a jelly donut?

[NashVegas]

146. I'm Undecided

And am ready to leave the Roe v Wade fight to the next generation.

[OzarkDem]

10. Agree

I'm past the age for worrying about pregnancy. If all these little Obama girls hate feminist Dem women so much, let them go protect or restore their own choice agenda.

[WeDidIt]

12. So you are now anti-choice.

Nice.

[OzarkDem]

17. another Lee Atwater Obama supporter

Your candidate is going to lose the GE regardless of whether Clinton supporters vote for him. If you lose the right to choose its your own fault.

[WeDidIt]

25. I am male

I support the right to choose, and have done so my entire life.

I even voted for Geraldine Ferraro in 1984 for Vice President because she was the best choice and(I thought at that time) a feminist.

I guess feminism is now cutting off your nose to spite your own face.

Sad, truly sad.

Enjoy being a second class citizen, I'm still going to vote in favor of the candidate wyho supports equal rights for all people and equal choice for all people.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

120. You voted for Geraldine in 84?

Seriesly??77?

C'mon, NOBODY votes for Vice President, do they?

:rofl:
:hi:

[OzarkDem]

121. Obama won't win, even with votes of all Dem women

Many Dem women are considering not voting for him because their vote will be wasted, again.

He is an un-vetted, inexperienced candidate who is not popular with the voting public. He will be destroyed in the GE, probably well before November as the GOP mines his personal history and political connections.

Even today, Obama loses handily to McCain in the electoral college vote.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May19.html

Our votes won't matter because he is going to lose anyway.

[Boojatta]

133. "Our votes won't matter because he is going to lose anyway."

You have a good point. It was reported that Dewey defeated Truman, so surely it's not too early to report that McCain has already defeated Obama.

[Kittycat]

144. Those are republicans, not democrats

Any free-thinking, real democrat votes to support women's rights regardless. Not to mention, McCain has voted against equal pay, and will likely draft their sons.

[msallied]

109. Your premise is false and it's clearly you looking for an excuse to cover your ass

for not supporting the Dem nominee.

[sakura]

114. WOW. An object lesson in selfishness.

Apparently the right to choice was only important to some when they could make use of it. Keep insulting those who are younger than you. They are the ones who'll be supporting you in your dotage, remember?

[Blondbostonian]

13. You're no Democrat

I don't want your vote. Remember this though.

Hillary Clinton will never be President. :)

Have a nice day.

[cliffordu]

95. That's right.

[jsmirman]

15. She's "past the age for worrying about pregnancy." The amazing selfishness

and "I am the only one I care about" attitude of Ozark Dem in all its spectacular vile glory.

Sic, btw.

Now we see the truth about this poster. What a great Democrat she is, who only gives a shit about herself. I thought that was supposed to be the hallmark of a Republican voter.

Disgusting.

Btw, me? I have two to many testicles to worry about getting pregnant. But that doesn't mean that I am not concerned with a women's right to choose.

[WeDidIt]

18. She has outed herself as anti-feminist and anti-choice

It's odd, finding out the true stances of supposed DUers.

[OzarkDem]

24. bwahahahaha!

You kids are really desperate to demonize Clinton supporters. You're in the wrong party, the GOP is much more to your liking.

[WeDidIt]

29. Kid?

I'm probably older than you are.

[jsmirman]

31. Oh no. We are not the ones who have lost our way. She just said because she can't get pregnant

she doesn't give a shit about Roe v Wade.

And then she has the temerity to suggest that WE are the Republicans here.

I'd laugh if it wasn't so disturbing.

Someone please tombstone this wretched creature.

[cliffordu]

96. Are you even a democrat?

You don't ever really sound like one.

[Auntie Bush]

126. Hillery has brass ones...what are yours?

[mckeown1128]

22. wha?!....

you just jumped the shark. Just becaue "these little Obama girls" as you put it... don't support Hillary it has nothing to do with them "hating feminist Dem women."


You reveal how selfish you are. You say your past the age for worrying about pregnancy, but what about all the women out there who still need a choice. How dare you. You lived (I'm guessing) most of your life with freedom of choice with your body and now your going to let it slip away because your candidate didn't win. You are sad and pathetic.

[OzarkDem]

34. If they're worried about choice

they need to do a better job of choosing a winning Dem candidate. Its that simple.

Choosing the latest fad to run in an election they're guaranteed to lose is foolish and short-sighted. You're only hurting yourself. But young people reject the opinion of older Dems, so they will be left to learn for themselves. Who knows, maybe it will end up making you a better Democrat.

Either way, its out of my hands. Obama isn't going to win whether I vote for him or not.

[jsmirman]

41. Her new position: I can sling all the bullshit I want because he won't win anyway

add this to I can pretend I didn't just clearly say that I don't give a crap about Roe v Wade because it no longer affects ME ME ME ME ME ME.

What a pitiful last act this is.

[sfaprog]

64. "The latest fad" sure is picking up more votes than the grunge 90's, isn't it?

I wonder if you will admit you were wrong when Obama takes the WH. Somehow I doubt it.

Know this, though: Hillary has burned the bridges she would have needed to run again for president, especially among the progressive base of the party. She will never be POTUS.

[jsmirman]

37. Bingo. I think this should really be the last of her. It's getting disgraceful in here.

What a shocking statement she just made.

[leftofcool]

48. Okay, I'm confused

I have seen hundreds of posts on DU by Obama supporters who say, "we don't need the working class vote" or "we don't need the female vote" or "we don't need Hillary supporters" "we can win with out all of these." Now, you are angry because there are many women who will not vote for Obama if he is the nominee? Which is it? Either you don't need our vote, or you do. If you feel you don't need the female vote or the votes of Hillary supporters then why are you angry? If Obama is going to win in a landslide just on the AA vote and the college crowd, then why worry about how the rest of us are voting?

[mckeown1128]

118. I am angry at the stupidity of these people.

who say they are going to vote for a Republican instead of Obama and then say it's because Obama is sexist. These idiots can't even back up their claim that Obama is sexist or that McCain is better for the country. I am angry on intellectual level. I also think Obama can win without the fringe Hillary supporters. I would prefer however to not have to test my theory.


Ohh and no one has shown any proof that Obama isn't or can't win blue collar workers. It's all Hillary spin. In the polling Obama is pulling the same amount of blue collar workers as Hillary. Primary results don't equal GE results.

[Buzz Clik]

23. "I've got mine. Fuck you." How very conservative of you.

[OzarkDem]

27. Your choice, not mine

You're the one who is backing a candidate who won't win the GE, with or without my vote.

[Buzz Clik]

33. We're not talking about that. We're talking about your choice of words.

Shit. I just took your sorry ass off my Ignore list.

[OzarkDem]

36. Good, I'll put you on mine

[Buzz Clik]

44. Why don't you put DU on your ignore list?

Anyone who is willing to walk away from Roe v Wade is NOT a Democrat.

[cliffordu]

100. SO: Describe why

Obama cannot win in November....


Could it be.......Naw, it couldn't be.....

[yellerpup]

35. So am I, but I wouldn't wish any girl to have to climb up on

a kitchen table and have an abortion illegally they way I did. Abortion is going to happen any way, just because it isn't going to happen to me again doesn't mean we don't insure the rights and safety of the younger generation.

[WeDidIt]

49. Those of us who remember the pre-Roe horors

will fight to insure we do not move back.

It's truly sad that the people who would be most negatively affected by a McCain presidency might enable him to become president. It's sort of like the poor people who enabled Bush to make them poorer.

[yellerpup]

61. It is ridiculous that anyone would sabotage Roe v. Wade

in a fit of pique because Hillary Clinton is not the Democratic nominee. I hope such hyperbole is mere posing at this point. Clinton is my senator and she has not voted as I have asked her to vote on most issues related to the Iraq War. I'm not choosing my candidate based on their 'junk'. For me, it is all about the issues. Always about the issues, and I can't support a candidate who has enabled Bush at almost every opportunity. I want real change.

[slinkerwink]

67. Wow. You'd have us die of ectopic pregnancies under a McCain court?

[Barrymores Ghost]

163. Just like an old lady that votes to let her district's school bond fail 'cuz her kids are grown...

...and she thinks she has no personal vested interest in public education anymore.

I can't begin to tell you how much what you just said fucking disgusts me.

[Iceburg]

14. If the Obamatrons had cared about R v W, they would have thrown their support to Hillary

The truth is ... Obama is opposed to universal health care, what in hell makes anyone think he will champion women's reproductive choices.

[WeDidIt]

16. Get real

Seriously, if all you have is lies about Obama, you're hopeless.

[Barack_America]

42. "I believe that the possibility for life begins at conception". nt

[leftofcool]

51. Exactly what Obama said.

[Barack_America]

58. Source: Hillary Clinton, CNN "Compassion Forum". n/t

[SwampG8r]

hahahaha

snap
your own candidate said it leftofcool
oh my god
snap city
what a bunch of mewling hypocrites the clinton democrats are

[Barack_America]

87. Here's a link to it.

Should have provided that earlier. Apologies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQLZLFl4ZF8

[SwampG8r]

82. hahahaha

snap
your own candidate said it leftofcool
oh my god
snap city
what a bunch of mewling hypocrites the clinton democrats are

[cliffordu]

101. Mewling...Great word!!!

:hi:

[bowens43]

55. Why would they do that? Obama is obviously the best candidate we have.

You make no sense at all.

[cliffordu]

104. Nice. A complete load of shit, but nice, anyway.

[mmonk]

21. Not only Roe v. Wade but the justices the republicans want

care nothing about equal pay nor much else that advances the causes of women either. They are corporate stooges, people that believe interpretation of the constitution has been wrong for the last two hundred years concerning voting and since 1937 on settled law.

[WeDidIt]

28. Their latest ruling in that regard proves your statement

but it's more important to hold your breath and let John McCain win if you're a feminist these days.

[OzarkDem]

40. Obama will lose all on his own

[WeDidIt]

45. I despise REpublicans

And that's wha tyou've become.

[OzarkDem]

138. Then you should back a Dem who can beat them

and Obama is not that person.

[Barrymores Ghost]

175. It's over. Obama has beaten Clinton. American Democrats have spoken.

You can deal with that reality, or you can work your petty ass off to sandbag Obama and your party and your country -- just to satisfy your unquenchable, vindictive and bitter thirst for some modicum of validation.

I'm sure you'll opt for the Spite with an unsweetened Bile chaser.

[bowens43]

56. You hope so , don't you?

fucking pathetic.

[NashVegas]

63. Funny, Though

That equal pay isn't the bell that keeps getting rung.

[mmonk]

74. That's due to journalistic laziness in this country.

[Barack_America]

38. Hillary is the only woman who could be President! Hillary is the only woman who could be President!

Looks like that training model actually works! Y'all seem to believe that one completely.

[BrklynLib at work]

47. There are lots of vital issues at stake this year, but Roe vs Wade is one of the most essential

fights we have. If women lose the right to chose...and they are well on their way to losing it..it will be like a domino effect. It will be just the first of many attempts to deny women their rights in all areas of society.
This conservative stacked court just needs one more member of that persuasion to take us all back to the 18th century. Roe vs Wade is a symbol of all that women have been fighting for over the years.
The next target may very well be our right to own property and to vote. Don't think they won't try it.
We MUST win in order to ensure that the Supreme Court protects women from being dragged back into a secondary-citizen role, and to protect all of us from the domination of businesses. A corporate loving Supreme Court is as dangerous as a woman-hating one.

[OzarkDem]

50. Then pick a candidate who can win the GE

[stratomagi]

52. We did.

Where were you?

[Iceburg]

57. Why the worry and whining then?

[WeDidIt]

60. Because Republicans are not welcome on DU

and the OP and Ozark are proving to be REPUBLICANS.

[stratomagi]

66. Consider this stuff domestic infighting

I fully expect despite what polling of Hillary supporters say now because of hurt feelings most democrats will be behind the democratic nominee. I understand if some stay home, fine, but if they go over and vote McCain, thats a severe lack of principle.

[Mags]

75. I believe you are wrong. I fully expect most of Hillary's supporters to stay home.

[stratomagi]

77. Unfortunately you can only speak for 1 Hillary supporter who is staying home

the rest is speculation based on assuming everyone else thinks just like you.

[Mags]

79. Well, actually there are several Hillary supporters in my family that feels like me.

[stratomagi]

81. Well hopefully they all "feels" better in November

and cooler heads will prevail, as I'm sure most will.

[SwampG8r]

83. so the tendency to delusion

is genetic?

[Mags]

88. yes.

[OzarkDem]

136. Obama is far behind McCain

and has no chance of improving his lot with anyone other than his base of half the Dem voters.

He's called them racist, whiners, bigots, gun lovers, etc. He has nothing to offer swing voters except a bad reputation for trashing them.

[WeDidIt]

53. The Democratic PArty already has

Get on board for the big win or become and anti-feminist anti-choice Republican.

It's your choice.

We'll win with you or without you, but you'll always remember how you threw women under the bus.

[OzarkDem]

137. No they haven't

Get off the George W Bush "Mission Accomplished" bandwagon, no one is buying it other than Obama supporters and the greedy, ignorant fools in Dem leadership, ie Pelosi, Emmanuel, Dean, and the rest of the corporate cash loving crew.

[akbacchus_BC]

129. We already have and his name is Senator Obama. n/t

[bowens43]

54. stick your head back in the sand

you'll be more comfortable there.

[Vinca]

62. Roe v. Wade isn't working? You need a reality check.

Having come of age in the pre-legal abortion era, I can assure you there is nothing more painful than an unwanted pregnancy. Unless you have experienced near death from a back alley abortion, lost a friend or relative to same or made the devastatingly hard decision to give a child up for adoption, you have no right to say Roe v. Wade doesn't matter. You must be young and you must be taking things for granted.

[NashVegas]

68. I Have Reality Right In Front of Me, Thanks

I'm not saying Roe v Wade doesn't matter. I'm saying that those who wave it in the face of Clinton supporters, who are pissed off enough about the sexism of this primary season to threaten to stay home, are barking up the wrong tree.

[Hugabear]

70. Because it fucking matters, that's why!

Jees, are you that friggin' clueless? There are some things that are FAR more important than sitting home on election day pouting because your candidate didn't win, and this is ONE of them!

Sorry if pointing out that there are fucking PRIORITIES pisses you off.

[Hugabear]

69. Your OP is so incredibly DENSE

Fine. Go ahead and support rethug candidates. After all, rethugs just LOVE Roe v Wade, and they would NEVER appoint conservative Supreme Court justices who might overturn or restrict Roe v Wade.

And there's NO chance that McCain would have the opportunity to tilt the Supreme Court to the right for the next few decades.

:sarcasm:

[LiberalAndProud]

72. I found another one. *** 4079 ***

http://icasualties.org

I cannot imagine why you would support more months -- would that be 48 MORE MONTHS? or 10,000 more years?

Sweet Jesus!

[rodeodance]

73. and Obama caused tthose deaths with his funding.

two can play your stupid game of blame.

[SwampG8r]

86. so buying a soldier bullets and food after neocon dems vote for a war

is what killed them?
not hillarys unequivicable support for bushs war going in?
its making sure poorly committed soldiers have all the equipment that counts more than who actually threw them onto a battlefield for a short term personal political gain?
giving them supplies is worse than sending them to die without even reading the intel?
how do you look at yourself?

[rodeodance]

89. That is RW talk. ALL the bills, including Russ Feingolds had $$ for SAFE

withdrawal.


so stop with your stupid excuses and educate yourself.

[SwampG8r]

91. but the most important bill

the one that said we would send our children to be shot at was signed and agreed to by hillary rodham clinton
and she never read the intel
dont put the blood on obamas hands for giving them supplies after your candidate sent them there without a clue as to what was going on

[LiberalAndProud]

127. Blame? That would be BUSH!!! And McCain will

just keep doing what we've been doing and NOTHING WILL CHANGE!

I have NEVER criticized Senator Clinton for her Iraq War vote. I don't think she took a courageous stand, but she was not alone. I voted for Kerry in 2004, and happily so. I realize that there is a history of mud flinging on this board, but do NOT confuse my passion for the end to this INSANE WAR, with Hillary hate. If Hillary in some way, by some miracle, wins the nomination, I will vote for her. I have claimed otherwise on this board in the past in moments of outrage, but in November, I will be voting in the hope of a MANDATE to end this insanity. Personality politics be damned! This war will not end unless and until we kick the warmongering Republicans OUT of Washington.

[tpsbmam]

76. OK, in addition to issues that directly affect women (e.g., equal pay)....

The likely ramifications for ALL Americans:

Continuation and likely strengthening of the imperial presidency.

A Supreme Court even more likely to support corporate America over the average American's rights. A Supreme Court likely to further undermine civil liberties. A Supreme Court that may amend our Constitution to discriminate against gays, among other possible assaults on our Constitution.

A continuation of Republican economic policies that have bankrupted the US.

An even more extended war in Iraq.

Increased likelihood of invading/nuking Iran.

Increased tensions around the world thanks to insane & illegal US international policies.

A renewal of the cold war (see McCain's Russia statements).

Continued massive destruction of the environment worldwide with no resolve on global warming.

Given the good possibility that the legislature will become majority Democratic, more gridlock on all of the above issues.

No health care for Americans.

etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,

[Forkboy]

85. Like I've said all along, most of you don't really care about sexism or women's issues.

It was just a campaign tool to get your way. Now that you can't get your way we see the real people underneath. Thanks for proving it so eloquently.

[bicentennial_baby]

112. Disappointing, isn't it?

[Forkboy]

113. Well, I suspected many of them were full of shit about caring in the first place.

So, no real disappointment or surprise. In fact, I'm glad they're showing their true colors for all of us to see. Most women are clearly smarter than this one, and know the consequences of a McCain presidency. They'll do the right thing, and I'll be honored to stand by them against the sexism that is all to prevalent in this society.

But fuck these poseurs who claim to stand for women's rights but will fuck over a whole generation of women because they didn't get their way.

[bicentennial_baby]

115. The argument that disturbs me the most lately is

the "I'm past childbearing age, so I don't care about reproductive rights anymore, you should have voted for Hillary"

It just...blows my mind. :wow:

[Forkboy]

116. yeah, I've seen that one a couple times. The term "mentally deranged" comes to mind.

So does "selfish little shits".

[lastliberalintexas]

124. Many people here don't care about issues, period

I've also seen posters who talk about how fantastic it will be to have an AA president who have never discussed racial issue- or if ever, so rarely that one would have to search to find those posts. Education, underemployment, urban renewal, poverty, unfair and discriminatory sentencing guidelines, profiling- when was the last time you really in truly saw an actual discussion of those issues by very many in the Obama camp?

Identity politics suck, and that is why Kucinich can not win polls even on DU, even though his positions mirror many posters here.


Oh, and btw, I do care about sexism and have tried to discuss those issues many times over the years on this site, only for those threads to be inundated with other posters wanting to discuss how the man haters give feminists a bad name or that male circumcision is just as bad- if not worse!- than female genital mutilation. And many of those "man hating feminists" left this site long before this primary, unfortunately. We could use a few more Eloriels and NSMAs these days.

[Forkboy]

125. Pretty much have to agree there.

Though I suspect a lot of people that care don't always speak up. I'm guilty of that sometimes because I come to a thread and someone has already said what I was thinking, and usually said it better.

And yes, Eloriel and NSMA would be cool to have around again. :(

[livetohike]

97. Perhaps I'm assuming incorrectly that you aren't old enough

to remember (or not even born yet) what life was like for women before Roe v. Wade. I see from your profile that you are a woman, so your inconcern is frightening.

[Romulox]

99. I feel as strongly about economic issues as most Dems feel about abortion

All politics is about coalition building, which means that if abortion rights are important to people, they will have to support issues important to people like me in order to build a coalition.

The tactic described in the OP (which is all too real,) is closer to extortion than coalition building.

[NashVegas]

110. I Think You're Like

One of the 4 respondents who get it. Maybe.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demodonkey]

111. Hell, 90 Year-old Nuns just lost their right to vote thanks 2 the SCOTUS, why could we not lose Roe?

:grr:

[Shakespeare]

117. That's the same shit Nadar supporters said 8 years ago.

So fuck that.

[ampad]

122. Yup because I'm more concern about the war

Too bad you children only care about your hurt feelings meanwhile we got men and women dying and for an unjust cause. Hey your feelings (or should I say e-feelings) are gonna have to take a back seat this election, I don't give a good damn. There are more than enough sensible people out there who realize what is at stake this election season. Those of you still fuming over your hurt feelings over Hillary, those of you who refuse to vote or will vote for McCain, well you are shit in my eyes. Roe V Wade, nawwww ya'll can keep that meme. Over 4000 dead and McCain talking about more wars and 100yr of this shit, well yea that peaks my interest. I will tell you what I tell the repigs enlist or enlist your children. I don't give a damn about your hurt feelings and neither do the people of Iraq or the men and women who have spent a good amount of time in the fucking sand trying to make it through the day alive, guess what? they don't give a damn about Hillary and her supporter "hurt feelings" Some of you are a piece of fucking work and the more you whine and cry the more I am convinced that some of you are GOP plants or you have just gone off the deep end. I don't think I witness this much crying and sobbing during the Bush stolen election of 2004 and that was something to fucking cry about. Hillary supporters are a good indication of just why she didn't win this election and while you continue to cry in your Jack Daniels I hope you all know that the world is bigger than your hurt feelings. I hope you all realize that this country has taken a sharp right turn to hell and that we are all on that bus. If you want to live another four years of Bush then by all means do what you got to do. I'm not going to kiss your ass though, rest assure of that. What I will do is get my ass out and work for Obama to ensure that my children do not have to live another four years of this madness. I want to ensure that my family is not torn apart because of war. Your hurt feelings, your hurt e-feelings well stick them. Roe v. Wade well I guess if it is overturn and it is fine and dandy with you then so be it. You just showed yourself to be a poser of the feminist movement something I have suspected of most of you for a quite some time.

[seabeyond]

123. how about dem vs repug. seeing we are on du. wtf. my female friends voted bush saying the same

b.s. as you and look, we are two justices closer to losing roe vs wade. but hey.... reality, fact doesnt work for you, it didnt for my baptist republican female friends in 2004 either.

[sniffa]

128. Ok, fine

Adios. :hi:

[last1standing]

134. This is an extremely eye opening thread.

Because we all claim to be Democrats there's a desire for most of us to believe that all Democrats are less selfish then republicans. This obviously is not the case. Some people vote their own immediate interests and once they no longer have the same requirements they will abandon those still in need.

[OzarkDem]

139. "Clap harder" thread

Some fools think by repeating a fairy tale often enough it will come true. The rest of us support evidence based politics.

[last1standing]

143. To be honest, I'd rather be a fool than forget my principles.

I have supported progressive causes my entire life. That will not change because of some imagined slight.

[Perry Logan]

140. How's this: "Vote for Obama or endure a slow and agonizing death."

Forget that he called your mother--a "typical white woman"--a racist.

[anonymous171]

141. lol I don't care. I stopped caring about wedge issues long ago.

As a man, women's reproductive health really isn't at the top of my list.

[AZBlue]

147. You're ok with it being overturned? Why are you here on DU?

Shouldn't you be on freeperville?

[NashVegas]

148. Of Course Not

But I don't see how it matters whether or not its overturned when the party that is named for our very form of government is behaving so very, very, undemocratically.

I'd rather have no Roe v Wade + a vote, than have Roe v Wade and no vote.

[RichardRay]

153. It's enough to make me wish there were a hell,

so that you could find yourself damned to it should the alternative you espouse come to pass.

I'd rather have no Roe v Wade + a vote, than have Roe v Wade and no vote.

Replace the applicable phrase, and that comes out as:

I'd rather have innocent women who can't afford to end run the law get killed because I feel bad, than to defend the right of those women to choose and have to work to change some party rules I don't like.

That puts you in the camp of advocating the murder of innocent women, plain and simple.

Can you put some other frame around it?

[NashVegas]

161. Nice Demonization, There

I'll try to break it down for you, and if you still want to accuse me of advocating murder, there's not much to be done for you.

From where I'm sitting - and many others also - it appears that there are people in the DNC, the DCCC, and the media (both MSM and allegedly liberal) who don't want all the voters to have their say.

From where I'm sitting, it looks like it is no coincidence that these people are supporting Obama and often trashing Clinton.

Also from where I'm sitting, it looks like it is no coincidence that these are many of the same people saying, "if you don't vote the way I want you to, safe & legal abortion will go bye-bye.

And I'm saying: I'd rather have all the votes count, because people can always vote to keep abortion safe and legal. People can vote for politicians who will take ownership of their desire to keep abortion safe and legal and not vote "present." I'd rather not leave it to a bunch of guys in funny robes.

"And I trust women to make these decisions, in conjunction with their doctors and their families and their clergy, and I think that's where most Americans are." — Barack Obama April 26, 2007

[RichardRay]

164. OK, that makes more sense....

although I'd say that the bald statement that you'd rather have a vote and no Roe v Wade than no vote and keep Roe v Wade doesn't parse like that when it's read as written.

[NashVegas]

167. Rough Day

Please accept my apology for being flip.

[RichardRay]

169. De nada, it's like that around here these days.... n/t

[rucky]

149. Will anything work?

or is it the thought that counts?

[LisaM]

152. Yeah - apparently scare tactics are okay if used against Hillary supporters

Not okay for her to campaign on national security and supposedly "scare" people, but perfectly acceptable to tell her supporters to freak out about Roe v. Wade.

[Barrymores Ghost]

154. Then pick ANY women's or civil rights issue you please...

...and tell me how they'll be served by a McCain presidency.

Please, I'm all ears.

Then, you can tell me how to justify their vote for the continuation of morally and fiscally bankrupt policies. You can plead their case for aiding and abetting a criminal and treasonous government. You can school me on their justification for enabling the protracted illegal occupation of a sovereign nation and a few hundred thousand more dead and maimed innocents.

And you can tell me how they are perfectly right in rationalizing all of it by comparing Hillary's self-failed nomination effort to a sexist hit-job on an uppity woman -- a "Misogynistic Holocaust," as these loons prefer to call her misguided camapign efforts.

Roe v Wade, as you surely must see, is only the tip of the iceberg.

You wanna align yourself with a small collective of hysterically and vindictive nutjobs? Great. We know where you stand...and it'll be duly noted come Election Day.

[LisaM]

155. I'm not voting for McCain. Who said I was?

It doesn't mean I appreciate being condescended to on the basis of Roe v. Wade, though.

[Barrymores Ghost]

156. And I never said YOU were, either. But Roe v Wade "scare tactics," as you call them, are...

...an example of what a McCain presidency could usher in (among all the other things I mentioned above) -- and these points are specifically addressed to those who are whining about how they'll vote for McCain, and to those who voice sympathy or empathy for these foot-stomping children.

If the latter shoe fits, wear it.

If not, then methinks you doth protest too much.

[LisaM]

157. I'm just tired of it, and I'm tired of the hypocrisy.

I don't think McCain has a chance anyway.

[Barrymores Ghost]

159. You and I agree for the most part, but...

...I refuse to underestimate the criminal depths to which the GOP will sink to remain in power (mostly for self-protection, now)...and I will be LONG in forgiving any so-called Democrat who puts McCain into play for sake of a stupid temper tantrum.

[LisaM]

162. Well and that works both ways

there are so many people here who have completely tarnished Clinton (and have said here that they wouldn't vote for her) that I think her political future is in jeopardy, and her reputation is at stake. Clinton has worked hard for the Democratic party for YEARS and has raised millions of dollars for other candidates, yet she's being treated like an outsider, a pariah, and a piece of food whose shelf life is up, even though she is still strong and vibrant.

Jim McDermott recently endorsed Obama. It broke my heart. He even said that he felt badly about it becuase the Clintons had helped him raise the money he needed for his legal defense fund.

I belive the Clintons' loyalty to the Democratic party is deep, perhaps deeper than Obama's. I have never seen him out here in Washington campaigning for anyone else or raising money for them either. I'm not talking about this election cycle - I'm talking about the last one. Hillary raised money for Maria Cantwell in her Senate run - important for saving the balance of power. I didn't see Obama doing this for her. Yet Cantwell will no doubt be - probably already has been - pressured to cast her SD vote for Obama. It's this kind of pressure that is making it very difficult for Hillary supporters these days. It's completely unseemly, and I think it's unfair, too.

[Barrymores Ghost]

168. We wouldn't be having this conversation if Hillary was still scratching out a lead.

She was the presumptive nominee once. That included a resounding lead among men, women, blacks, whites, gays, straights, you name it.

She began to act like she didn't need to earn it...like the nomination was her birthright. She declared victory before Super Tuesday, lost, and was forced to retool. Her fund-raising apparatus was flawed. She had the opportunity to run an above-board campaign and instead chose scorched earth. And now she is using the last arrow in her quiver, and it, too, will backfire. If she finds herself kicked to the curb at the end of this Senate term, it won't be anyone's fault but her own for making shamefully false and divisive cases to pursue a very self-centered and self-possessed agenda.

[LisaM]

170. I never saw that. I never heard her say it, and I never heard her campaign say it.

I heard a few pundits say it. I've never felt that she was the presumptive nominee. I thought she had the odds stacked against her from the start. In fact, when Obama spoke at the convention in 2004, people started discussing him as a candidate then. I was not the least surprised when he moved to Washington, and essentially unpacked and started running for office. I believe that HE - not she - has been the one wearing the cloak of inevitability.

[Barrymores Ghost]

173. The difference:

She ran a backward-looking campaign, constantly harking back to the good ol' 1990's under Bill, without laying out a compelling vision for the future, without feeling like she had to answer for or apologize for her support of NAFTA or the IWR, without supporting a withdrawal from Iraq, without having to make a case for support of her by ordinary Americans. Instead, she ignored the demands of progressive constituents and courted big-ticket donors, allowed a slimy cretin named Mark Penn to run her campaign...rewarded loyal idiots on her campaign with continued employment....and the list of blunders goes on.

She waltzed into the early stages of the campaign with a very comfortable lead in Democratic polls, banking on her "experience" as First Lady, her overflowing coffers, her jammed Beltway Rolodex and her historic candidacy as this country's first serious female presidential candidate. She took her swagger of "inevitability" right into an October debate in which she fell all over herself. She got blown out in Iowa and she was on the ropes. She was courting a potential double-digit loss in New Hampshire before she decided a televised waterworks display couldn't hurt, and she rallied to eke out a two-pointer overnight. Then, her Super Tuesday "landslide" failed to materialize and after that, it was no-holds barred. No crossbar was too low. No slander to unconscionable. No excuse to pathetic. She became snide, petty, apoplectic and unapologetic. She let Bill run his yap and make a fool of both of them, even when campaign insiders and friends begged her to shut him up because he was a liability and nobody was buying his bullshit. When people turned off to her and became resentful of her taking the low road, her downward spiral deepened. I don't know how to describe the incompetence of her campaign with anything other word than "presumption."

Well, maybe "hubris." Or "denial."

Hence, ergo, thusly, we've arrived at "sexism" as the raison du jour for her failed candidacy.

Obama never considered himself the "presumptive" anything. He's captured people's imaginations in ways that the Clinton's can't even fathom, let alone emulate. THAT's why he will be the Democratic nominee. And it galls the Clintons and everyone else who thought that the White House was her birthright.

[Barrymores Ghost]

176. P.S. Jim McDermott makes me proud to be a Washingtonian.

Jim McDermott has rarely been wrong in his decisions, and Jim McDermott cast his support to Obama because he listened to his heart, his head and to the people of his state. Jim McDermott has nothing to apologize or second-guess himself for.

Hillary Clinton still has time to save her own legacy, and maybe even her political career. Of course, most of the damage she's suffered in the last four months has been entirely self-inflicted. We'll see how she conducts herself after June 2nd, assuming she continues her present course...but she's got a lot of bridge-building to do.

[cornermouse]

160. The way I see it.

Women's rights cover more territory than Roe v. Wade alone. Most of the other objectives (equal pay, etc.) have never really been brought to a satisfactory solution. Certainly the Equal Rights Amendment or its equivalent is not the law of the land.

I'm past the age of getting pregnant. I look around and I see young people who think Roe v. Wade is the sum total of equal rights. They don't seem to really care that they get less salary, pay more for services, they seem to think harassment in the workplace is at worst a minor inconvenience, etc. They seem to think the ERA is nothing more than history. They don't care about my rights but they want me to care about theirs? Why?

When it comes down to it, it's not about a single issue. It's not about my rights. It's not about your rights. It's about our rights. It's about moving the whole package forward.

[Occam Bandage]

166. So you're saying you don't give a shit about women. Gotcha.

[susankh4]

171. K&R

And just for the record... the Roe vs. Wade argument holds no water this time around.

This dawg ain't huntin'.

[Barrymores Ghost]

174. Bookmarking your comment for future reference. n/t

[JVS]

172. Any piece of shit who wants McCain to be president can fuck off and vote for him! Happy?