I finally get why some women support Hillary

[dkf]

They want revenge for past slights by all the men in their life...

"Mrs. Clinton seemed to channel the lives of regular women, who often saw her as an avenging angel. Take Judith Henry, 67, for whom Mrs. Clinton’s primary losses stirred decades-old memories of working at a phone company where women were not allowed to hold management positions. “They always gave us the clerical jobs and told us we didn’t have families to support,” she said. At a rally last month in Bloomington, Ind., she sat with her daughter Susan Henry, 45, a warehouse worker, who complained that her male colleagues did less work and made more money than the women did.

Decades after the dissolution of movement feminism, Mrs. Clinton’s events and donor lists filled with women who had experienced insult or isolation on the job. Moitri Chowdhury Savard, 36, a doctor in Queens, was once asked by a supervisor why she was not home cooking for her husband; Liz Kuoppala, 37, of Eveleth, Minn., worked as the only woman in her mining crew and is now the only woman on the City Council.

Ms. Kamarck, 57, the Harvard professor and a longtime adviser to Democratic candidates, said she was still incredulous about the time her colleagues on Walter F. Mondale’s presidential campaign, all men, left for lunch without inviting her — because, she later discovered, they were headed to a strip club."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/19/us/politics/19women.html?_r=2&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

I guess I didn't get it because I don't think I can get back at my boss by electing Hillary...

[LostinVA]

1. My wife and I support her, because she's the best candidate

Not because we have issues with men. The funny thing is, we often get along better with men than women.

So much for your "theory."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. LOL

But seriously, what's the real reason?

[dkf]

7. Well it makes sense to me...otherwise I still don't get it.

As a female, I don't understand what about Hillary is supposed to make me vote for her because she is also female.

[patrice]

11. Re theory: people are trying to explain to themselves why her strong negatives are being ignored. nt

[Darth_Kitten]

49. Exactly......

remember, they are all "progressives" who love women and equality. :eyes:

[macracan]

52. Because she's a woman

I talked to this couple in OH in Nov 2007, before all the primaries. They are in their 70s and were strongly for Hillary. I've asked the lady why and all she could tell me was that "because she's a woman". Pardon me, I thought, but that is such a bad reason. As if I would support Edwards because he's a man (at the time I was an Edwards fan).
Choosing a candidate based on gender is short-sighted. That was a put-off for me.

[cd3dem]

57. sounds like Obama's bitter comment doesn't it?!

I support Hillary Clinton because she is the most qualified... she is the best person to beat McCain in November... she has the qualities and character that I look for in my candidate.... she will serve us well and restore our country's image through-out this world... she is strong and is a fighter, which is good for a president and tremendous role model for young women!

I trust her and would feel good and proud to call her my president.

I cannot say the same of any other candidate running.

[Larkspur]

3. My mother was never impressed with Hillary and laughed at her

"I'm not Tammy Wynette" claim. My mom saw Bill Clinton for the philanderer that he still is today and she knew that Hillary was aware of it but kept it to herself for her ambitions.

[Texas Hill Country]

4. vengeance? that is what you come up with? how patronizing is that?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

30. Uh, it's in the article? nt

[dana_b]

5. I think that you just stated the unmentionable

prepare for fallout. :hide:

[dkf]

8. Hey, it wasn't me...I'm quoting from the article what Clinton supporters are saying.

[ej510]

12. You should've said some. Some of her supporters think that she is the better canidate.

[dkf]

14. Being a better candidate is one thing...voting for a woman because you are a woman is another.

[leftofcool]

6. You have got to be kidding me?

More sexist trash from the media

[Darth_Kitten]

45. exactly.......

n/t

[hendo]

60. ah yes, the sexist NY Times

:eyes:

Whether sexist or not its true. Those quotes are from some ofHillary's own supporters.

[Marrah_G]

9. Just as I am sure "some men" support Obama because they think women are beneath them

See how that works?

Then there are the majority of us. We support Hillary AND we like or even love men. Shocking, I know.

Do you really honestly want to go down this path?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

17. Why don't you take it up with the writer of the NY Times article then?

That seems to be the gist of the piece, which may or may not reflect the true views of the women interviewed for it. But the woman were definitely painted as vengeance-seeking. Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with it if they were. They certainly seem to be justified. I don't understand why they think electing Hillary Clinton will mitigate it, but they do.

[Marrah_G]

24. Because the OP posted here and added in that TERRIFIC first line

"I finally get why some women support Hillary

They want revenge for past slights by all the men in their life.."

Switch Black for Woman and Obama for Hillary and Whites for Men. Then tell me you think that sort of BS belongs on DU.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. Mrs. Clinton seemed to channel the lives of regular women, who often saw her as an avenging angel.."

The very next line in the OP, from the article itself. Last I checked, the NY Times was an acceptable source here. Again, if you have an issue with the article, take it up with the writer.

[Marrah_G]

31. I'm taking it up with the poster- The same way people answer posts with anti-obama articles

Also do not see this line "I finally get why some women support Hillary. They want revenge for past slights by all the men in their life.." anywhere in the article. That comes from the OP.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

35. The article does bolster that.

The OP said SOME women supporters and the article gave examples of women who seemed to be supporting Clinton for just that reason. Again, take it up with the MSM. It appears you are trying to pin something on Obama and his supporters that is clearly coming from your candidate's supporters. Shooting the messenger.

[Darth_Kitten]

47. Right on!

:D

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. I understand how they feel but what I don't understand

Is why they think the nomination should be handed to Hillary because of it. She's run a terrible, inept campaign and has been caught in pathetic lies.

[dkf]

13. Exactly...I was waiting for her to do something impressive that would

change my mind about her, but I waited in vain.

[patrice]

18. She supported the IWR because she planned to run for pResident and needed to be able to say

that she is "strong on defense". She didn't vote FOR War. She voted for at least a 50:50 chance of War, for her ticket to the pResidency.

I WANTED a Woman pResident too, but some things are more important than gender. We also MUST send a message to ALL future candidates and elected representatives that THEIR AMBITIONS ARE SECONDARY TO THE PHYSICAL AND MORAL WELL BEING OF THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY.

[no_hypocrisy]

15. Last time I heard of that logic, I was reading "The World According to Garp" with

the neofeminist movements that embraced Ellen James (the Ellen Jamesians) and Garp's mother, Jenny Fields.

[JTFrog]

16. A perfect explanation for why some of them would threaten to vote for McCain.

But I'm not worried about those Stepford republicans.

[TexasObserver]

19. Oh, it is definitely vicarious fulfillment for all those resentments.

Here's the logic:

"Hillary is old, and she's a female. I'm old and I'm a female. I tolerated sexism in the 1950s and 1960s. Therefore, Hillary should be president."

Not logical, but that is the thinking process, such that it is.

[NJmaverick]

27. Yes it is

[TexasObserver]

32. Yep, it's her pissy posse.

[napi21]

20. I lived through those times, and I think there are some women

who are Hillary supporters because of their past experiences and the admiration they feel for her because of her successes. I voted for Barack, but I'm STILL a little worried that he isn't hard & tough enough to fight off all the crap the Pubs are going to throw at him. I think Hillary IS! I had to be much like Hillary during my career, and yes I was called a b*tch, and I was PROUD OF IT!

[demokatgurrl]

51. "Bitch" is DEFINITELY a compliment! n/t

[patrice]

21. Men-hating is an economic luxury that lower-class Females cannot afford. nt

[yourguide]

22. It's sort of like a reverse reverend wright.

Many of these women dont really see how far women have truly come. When they say things like, "this is the only chance for a woman" they are not only selling themselves short but the entire feminist movement short.

They dont truly see how far things have come, although not perfect, and sure there is still plenty of sexism out there, and that is why they are gripping this with all of their might and will not let it go.

I think this is what explains this age/gender voting gap with Hillary, the older women really did suffer through the worst of it on the job. The younger generation of women have not had the same experiences, they see more potential and less sexism.

[SeaLyons]

23. Hillary gets my support because she is the BEST candidate....

your post is just more of the same sexism this campaign has been filled with.

I support Hillary because I know she would be a GREAT president based on her experience, tenacity, intelligence and concern.

[NJmaverick]

25. My mother is in her 60s and this article decribes her to a tee

She has talked about how great it would be to get back at all those sexist men by having a woman President.

[marions ghost]

41. absolutely this idea is out there...

I was surprised to hear the mother of a friend say that very same thing when Hillary first started running. This woman not only wants to "get back at men" but she also wants to get back at her husband who voted for Bu$h twice while she voted Dem. She couldn't imagine a better revenge than Hillary as president. She said this in unmistakeable terms. Her vote for Hillary was without a doubt a "payback" vote.

The one thing we need to realize from some (I said some) of the support for Hillary is that there are a LOT of pissed off women in America.

[knixphan]

26. a small aside...

Barack is 'tough enough'...everyone's metrics of toughness may vary, but I measure strength in degrees of intellect.

That said, I'm sure there are supporters of EVERY candidate, who support that person not based on politics, but as a means of catharsis...

[SoCalDem]

28. expecting (a woman) Hillary or ANY woman to "right" long-ago wrongs is the WORST

reason to vote for HER or ANY woman..

The easy answer is UNIONS.

If all jobs were UNION, men and woman would be paid by the JOB and seniority..and everyone knows what everyone else makes.. In that kind of atmosphere, women DO get fair par and opportunity.

A MAN who supports unionization will ALWAYS be a better choice, than a woman who just reminds everyone about how "she-been-done-wrong" for years, by the boss-man..

[mrreowwr_kittty]

33. Honest to god, I think many of the women in the article would vote for Condi

If she simply sprinkled some woman-powery sounding stuff into her rhetoric.

You are spot on about unions. Unfortunately, the anti-labor propaganda has been so thick, and so effective the past few decades that people don't see how obvious it is. A lot of working women would apparently rather hear faux-feminist platitudes than fight for real power.

[juno jones]

34. The women have a few legitmate gripes,

My mother was paid less as a physical therapist in the 60's because she 'didn't have a family to suppport.' This was totally specious as she was supporting me, my sister, and my dad who was busy with his education, graduating from Bradley with a master's in ed in '66. That was one of the reasons she helped campaign for ERA back in the day.


However, I do not see Hillary doing a damn thing for them. Too many connections to companies who profit from the exploitation of female labor; for example, Walmart, which has very few women in management and pays it's largely female clerk force nearly nothing, prevented from organizing, given bad or non-exsistant benefits and kept in working conditions that can only be compared to slavery enforced by big brother. There is no money to be had in changing things. You can't bank 'fairness' or pay your campaign advisors on 'equality'. Change will never occur on her watch. She is our own home-grown Thatcher, if we will have her.

[ellenfl]

36. y'all need to quit letting the msm set your agendas.

the msm has been doing this from the beginning. i try to believe the opposite of what the msm tells me which is more likely to be the truth. it is very satisfying. i am so gratified that obama is not falling into the msm traps. we shouldn't either.

as a woman who has seen her share of gender discrimination in the workforce, i do NOT support hillary because of her policies. i assume that most women who DO support her, do so for the same reason i don't. i won't sell my sisters short by ascribing ignorant reasons for their support of hillary.

ellen fl

[lastliberalintexas]

37. Or perhaps it's because those women see that, despite the

advances of women's issues over the last couple of generations, women still only earn about 72 cents for every dollar paid to a man for equivalent work. Maybe those women think that Clinton, being a female herself, can better understand the gender issues they themselves face, since they assume that she has also faced them.

You know, kind of the way that many African Americans might also choose to support Obama because he can better understand the biases they have faced.

No, of course it can't be anything as legitimate as that for either side, it MUST be some stupid, insipid reason proffered by the corporate media. :eyes:



Whether I agree with either of those statements above, I am sure that there are plenty of supporters of each candidate who believe that their candidate can empathize better just because of DNA. Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "man hating", racism or supposed reverse racism. But go ahead, keep yaping at each other's heels in such productive ways.

[Two Americas]

38. I don't understand

How does people relating their own experience of discrimination to their political views invalidate their political views?

You selectively pulled the section from the article that supports your theme here. I don't believe you that you read this article and then suddenly had some sort of revelation that helped you understand why people support Clinton.

To get to "I guess I didn't get it because I don't think I can get back at my boss by electing Hillary..." from that article is a real stretch. A handful of people, expressing a wide variety of views on this subject, does not justify your claim that any significant number of people are trying to "get back at their boss" and this is why they support Clinton. In the process, you trivialize and mock the very real discrimination and oppression that women face.

[Orsino]

39. Heck, yeah.

You can't ignore the symbolic power of a female president. It would be a great leap forward, though I have serious reservations about the particular woman.

The presidency is a mighty symbol, one person we depend on to save us from trouble. Even a complete chowderhead like * had the devotion of tens of millions following 9/11, and held onto it even after years of pissing on us. A woman in that position would go a long way toward shattering all sorts of glass ceilings, and that a woman appears to be denied that position now angers some people more than is IMO warranted.

[Arkansas Granny]

40. And some of us support her because we feel she is the most qualified

for the job of the two candidates that are left in the race. Revenge has nothing to do with it.

[Darth_Kitten]

44. Oh, it's always about revenge when it comes to women.......

:sarcasm:

[intaglio]

42. Here's why they support Hillary - and why I don't

[Darth_Kitten]

43. Why do young Obamabots hate Hillary?

Because she reminds them of the parent they've always resented and hated? :sarcasm:

[BlooInBloo]

46. I think it's because they bribe people.

[EFerrari]

48. Hmmmm. I guess I never thought men were important enough

to be that self-destructively pissed over.

lol

(Sorry, men! You're great and everything but, tank my party? :wtf: )

[demokatgurrl]

50. Now take me, for instance

I've led a truly coddled life as a woman. Growing up in a house of all sisters, I was told early on by my mother that if I wanted to make a good living, I should enter a field that was traditionally thought of as a man's field. (This was a mother, by the way, who rarely worked outside the home and had no education to speak of). I took her advice and went into science. I am old enough that in college and grad school, I was a definite minority in terms of gender ( I am a white woman). Many of my classes were 80 or 90% men. Interestingly enough, I did well enough and "worked hard" enough, white person from working-class background that I am :sarcasm: that I never got treated unfairly and was given the same opportunities to succeed as my male colleagues. Meanwhile, I never suffered a shortage of eligible men to date. How great is that??

So, I guess I don't have any slights to avenge. And therefore I just don't get why it is assumed that because I am a white woman of a certain age, I have to support Clinton.
don't get me wrong, I DID at one time support Clinton, but it had nothing to do with her being a woman or my being a hard-working white person. I thought she had a better chance of winning the GE, it's as simple as that. Now that I see how she runs a campaign, I am amazed she did as well as she did.

And I wonder, would Ms. Karmack have liked to go along to the strip club? Maybe when she found that out she understood why they might not have mentioned it, for fear of offending her. And anyway, that was HOW many years ago? Let it go, let it GO!!!

[loyalsister]

53. That has been my observation

I have friends who have that perspective. I have two friends who are Clinton supporters.
One with a history of having been sexually harrassed, another who was in an abusive relationship.

[TheDonkey]

54. Sexism is a HUGE problem in our history (global history) and it is sad that Hillary has to be the

"Messiah" to help visibly shatter the glass ceiling because she is a flawed politician and a flawed candidate. It has nothing to do with her sex, it has everything to do with her as a person. I do feel bad for women that must still look forward to seeing a woman be PRESIDENT someday, the most visible and powerful leader in the world, but HILLARY is not the one, and will not ever be the one.

[VotesForWomen]

55. so black people are voting for O because they want revenge on white people? jeez, you really want to

lose the GE, don't you. well, you'll probably get your wish.

[Seeker30]

62. Hate to say it but....BINGO

[anonymous171]

63. OK, but why aren't black people threatening to vote for McCain?

[BigBluenoser]

56. The problem with this article is...

That by telling this story in this fashion it reinforces the cultural stereotype that women are irrational - they are using emotion, past grudges, bitterness, trauma etc. So we have a bunch of women who are making this BAD decision due to their own warped perspectives and not based on a rational decision. This is (as we see on DU all the time) easily then geralizable to all female Clinton supporters.

What is left unsaid of course, is that people who support Obama came to their decision to support him by weighing the pros and cons etc. In other words they decided rationally and therefore made a proper decision.

[KoKo]

58. Amazing? Dems Dissing fellow Dems who Support Hillary. Bunch of bitter old ladies

who "can't keep a man." Sheesh....:eyes: I guess I'm not even surprised anymore about what passes for posts on "DEMOCRATIC underground" these days. :rofl:

[Perry Logan]

59. The OP is blatantly sexist. You guys are amazing.

[dkf]

61. Hello, I'm a female. If I'm a sexist, does that mean I stereotype men?

I don't get it.

And seriously, I didn't understand why I was supposed to vote for Hillary because I'm a female.

Reading this article actually makes me understand why other women may think I'm not in the sisterhood or whatever for not wanting her as President.

So sue me if my "eureka" moment isn't something that you appreciate.