Thank You Hillary, Its About Time

[Median Democrat]

I admit, I am a bit of a fence sitter. I have given substantially in the past election to Kerry/Edwards. However, I have been reluctant to give to either candidate in the primaries, since I wanted to focus on the general election.

Originally, I leaned towards supporting Hillary. However, somewhere along the way, she started listening to her pollsters, who convinced her to go negative, and focus on issues like "electability." As a minority, the obsession regarding whether a minority is "electable" was a touchy subject. Also, too often, I saw Hillary trying to triangulate by trying to run to the right of Obama on issues like tax cuts and guns while also benefiting in the ABC debate's focus on gotcha issues like Rev. Wright and Ayers. This hurt Hillary in my eyes, because she "disappeared" except as a "foil" for attacking Obama.

Now, she seems to be getting her groove back, and fighting Republicans. She was a step slow, but she did eventually bash Bush for labeling Obama/Democrats appeasers. My concern was that she sit on the sidelines to see if Obama got pummeled, but jumped in when the fight enhanced, rather than hurt Obama. Also, Hillary is finally going after McCain and Bush with some of the vigor that she went after Obama.

I am a Democrat. I know that her campaign managers know more than I do about getting elected. However, as a Democrat, I want a candidate who can explain why the Bush years were bad, and why McCain is not an improvement. The past few months, Hillary has not been doing that. Instead, she was focusing on reasons why I should not vote for Obama. This may have been the "correct" strategy, but it turned me off.

I want to see the Democrat presidential candidate go after some Republicans, rather than fellow Democrats. Its nice to see Hillary start to get back to that.

[Beacool]

1. Errr.............Obama is her OPPONENT in case you have forgotten.

She went after Obama and Obama went after her, that's the process during a primary.

I still don't get what's all the outrage about her criticizing Obama. Was she supposed to step aside for the Anointed One? He who couldn't even wait to finish his 2nd year in the senate before he thought that he was ready and deserving of the presidency????

Please........

[Fredda Weinberg]

2. Remember, we're always held to different standards ... and called

bitches when we complain. Whites do it, Blacks do it ... Jews do it.

HRC is not to blame. She's run a brilliant campaign, like other women before her.

We accept because we must. It's never going to be fair.

[bicentennial_baby]

3. Brilliant campaign?

Oh my....how can you type that with a straight face? :crazy:

[cali]

4. Stop whining and stop speaking for all women. You do not speak

for me. She ran a poor campaign. It's been massively documented just how poor it was. They didn't plan past Feb 5. She had to get rid of her campaign manager and her top strategist. She went seriously into debt and misspent millions and millions of dollars.

And life isn't fair for most people- men or women.

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. I thought the problem was my boasting ... who's whining but you, dear?

Of course life isn't fair for you - but HRC and I don't bitch, cali ... we form relationships around us that nurture and support. Best wishes, despite what silly season has done 2 u.

[cali]

21. You just posted a whine for all to see, fredda. And whining and

boasting are not mutually exclusive. I never said life wasn't fair for me, frdda wewiberg. That's simply you making some sort of silly leap.

[Fredda Weinberg]

24. I don't have to find the post, cali ... but I remember your pain

Again, best wishes despite your tone. I know you've been better.

[knixphan]

18. hear hear

[Arugula Latte]

6. Oh, please. Hillary had every advantage. She did herself in.

She had name recognition, big money, the establishment behind her.

Not having the courage of convictions, crappy campaign strategy, aligning herself with McCain, not a muslim "as far as I know," complaining about almost every aspect of the process because she wasn't winning like she thought she would, dissing educated voters and caucus voters, and on and on -- THOSE are the things that did her in.

You keep telling yourself Hillary has lost because she's a woman. I guess wallowing in poor Hillary's "victimhood" makes you feel better.

It doesn't make any sense to this woman, though.

[Auntie Bush]

32. She also lost because she was bashed by EVERY single bias

news media, blog or internet site. I actually can't remember a single positive comment from anyone about Hillary. I remember saying many times...I'm surprised anyone can vote for Hillary..with the press coverage she gets. Everyone is so negative. I also don't remember any of those people saying a single bad or negative thing about Obama. With press coverage like that...how could she ever win? I guess she can't! If you don't see that...you really haven't been paying attention or you just listen to what you want to hear and dismiss everything else.

[NeedleCast]

8. She's run a brilliant campaign?

She went from being in the lead by 30% to losing. If that's your metric for campaign brilliance, you'll be a perfect Clinton advisor

[Lucky 13]

11. Brilliant campaign? She's shot herself in the foot at EVERY available opportunity!

:rofl:

[cottonseed]

14. She thought it would be over Feb 5th

This is why she lost, not because of sexism:

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x134125

[Shae]

33. Aww, poor you. NT

[Texas Hill Country]

5. and its not like they havent gone after her?

[CakeGrrl]

20. Define "they" and "gone after her"

Do you mean the Obama campaign or the MSM? Two different things. And if you think the MSM is in Obama's pocket, by the way, you'd probably agree with Bush supporters that the media has a "liberal bias".

You can't have it both ways.

This is, as Hillary supporters want to keep reminding everyone when they're in the "Hillary is tough as nails" phase, a campaign. As your candidate said, "If you can't take the heat..."

If you're selling snake oil in the form of a gas tax holiday, it can be pointed out.

If you lie about your bravery dodging sniper fire to puff up your CiC resumé, it can be pointed out - even though the Obama campaign had the courtesy not to go there.

Cite any example where the Obama campaign has impugned Clinton's personal character or drummed up fearmongering to cast doubts on her electability as a woman. Her campaign's offenses on these points regarding Obama's character and electability by virtue of his race have been cited many, many times.

[gateley]

7. It's not the legit charges she levied against him --

but more the "as far as I know" types of things that I found distasteful.

[Median Democrat]

10. As I said, You Political Experts Are Smarter Than Me...

I have not given to either candidate, and will start to contribute to whoever the nominee is once he or she is chosen. The "smart" strategy as you point out was to slam on the Democratic front runner. I can't question this strategy, because I am not qualified to do so. I have never run a campaign.

However, if you ask me what I want as a Democrat who has suffered through the Bush years? I want to see someone start going after Bush and McCain. As you correctly point out, Hillary focused on going after Obama. Hillary spent so much time saying that she was better qualified than Obama at going after Republicans, while Obama (perhaps arrogantly) just went after the Republicans, rather than making the focus of his campaign how Hillary was not qualified.

Hillary is right. Its a job interview. I like how Hillary is not aggressively going after Bush and McCain. However, I wish had done so earlier. My concern is that she refrained from doing so, because she did not want to offend the Fox news/Rush types who were by their own admission using her as a foil to go after Obama.

So, Hillary ran a "smart" strategy. However, did it inspire me a lifelong Democrat? No. Did the continual talk of the electability of a minority inspire me as minority voter? No again. Would I have voted for Hillary if she is the Democratic candidate in the GE? Yes.

All I am saying is that for all the talk of Hillary being a fighter, I want to see her fight some Republicans, and she really has not done so until now. If she had taken that same energy that she used in going after Obama, and went after Bush/McCain, then I would feel a lot more positive about her.

However, I guess that was not the "smart" strategy, which is why I don't run campaigns. I'll leave that to the experts.

[butterfly77]

15. Is he suppose to step aside for ...

the entitled one? Hillary is owed nothing you and her are sore losers..As Hillary says "if she can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" Hillary did all of the attacking and you expect him not to respond to her attacks?

[Terran]

29. I think it's those occasions when she...

said or implied that McCain was the better candidate than Obama. That sort of thing is, or should be, forbidden by common sense among Democrats...and yet she went there, more than once. She can say she's the better candidate all she wants; for both of them it's mostly just talk at this point; but when you give away talking points to the dark side, that is what upsets people.

[AllentownJake]

9. No she's up to her typical self

MAYSVILLE, Ky. - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton on Monday said her opponent Barack Obama may be getting a little ahead of himself in acting like the party's nominee before the final contests of the primary season are over.

Clinton and Obama are still set to face off in several more primaries, including two in Kentucky and Oregon on Tuesday, but Obama has been increasingly portraying himself as the nominee already facing Republican John McCain. Obama has scheduled appearances later this week in Iowa and Florida as he looks ahead to the swing states in the general election.

"You can declare yourself anything, but if you don't have the votes, it doesn't matter," Clinton said Monday in a satellite interview with an Oregon television station before a campaign appearance in Kentucky.

The former first lady trails Obama in the delegate count by such a margin that it is mathematically unlikely for her to overtake him in the remaining primaries, which end June 3 with Montana and South Dakota.

But both candidates have been angling to win over the party leaders and elected officials known as superdelegates, whose support will likely determine the nominee.

Clinton has been making her case to the superdelegates by casting herself as the more tested and experienced Democrat with a better chance of beating McCain in November.

She said Monday that she is the "more progressive candidate" and dismissed the hype surrounding Obama that results in the large crowds like the record rally of an estimated 65,000 he drew in Portland on Sunday afternoon.

Clinton said Obama, who has refused to debate her since they last faced off just before the Pennsylvania primary last month, would "rather just talk to giant crowds than have questions asked."

Later, while speaking to several hundred people in a high school gymnasium, Clinton picked up her campaign's argument that Obama's victories in states that had caucuses instead of primaries are somehow less significant because turnout was lower.

Clinton also revived her pitch that many of the states where he has beaten her, like Alaska, Idaho and Utah, matter less because they would not be competitive for Democrats in November. Anybody "who's really analyzing this" should come to the same conclusions, she said.

"So I'm going to make my case and I'm going to make it until we have a nominee, but we're not going to have one today and we're not going to have one tomorrow and we're not going to have one the next day," Clinton said. "And if Kentucky turns out tomorrow, I will be closer to that nomination because of you
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080519/ap_on_el_pr/clinton

[NeedleCast]

12. Falling Back on the "Small States Don't Count" meme

Just goes to show how far this campaign has come off the tracks. When a tactic fails, you don't wait a month then trot it back out there again.

I find this particularly telling though

"Later, while speaking to several hundered people in a high school gymansium, Clinton..."

vs

"...dismissed the hype surrounding Obama that results in the large crowds like the record rally of an estimated 65,000 he drew in Portland..."

Obama draws 65,000. Hillary draws several hundred.

[AllentownJake]

13. She's touting KY

at the same time as bashing Idaho, Alaska, and Utah. I find that hillarious.

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. 'the Democrat presidential candidate'?

Helpful hint: it's 'Democratic'.

[GoesTo11]

19. There's a lesson here - be authentic. l

Through 2007, Dems really liked HRC. Then she started saying what pollsters like Penn advised, instead of what she really thought. Then her support plummeted. It's always that way. And it's not the "correct strategy" as we have seen.

I think she ran a brilliant campaign between 2004 and 2007. Since then, she's had flashes of excellence - certainly some strong performances on the stump and in debates. But these were diluted by "Shame on you" moments that made it hard to tell who she really is.

[Median Democrat]

23. Hillary's Ran A Perfect Political Pundit Campaign

On the one hand, I kind of liked Hillary's never say die approach. However, I really wanted to see her use that approach on the Republicans, which she did not do. What I wanted to see was who did a better distinguishing and selling the Democratic platform from the Republican platform. I am sure Penn advised Hillary that she needed to focus on Barrack, and try to explain why she is so different from a person whose voting record is largely identical to hers. Sorry, but the differences ended up soundling really superficial, and left me wanting.

Hillary's campaign largely missed me. I wanted red meat. I wanted to see a Democratic candidate who would give voice to my complaints regarding the Bush administration. Hillary did not do that the past few months, and focused on attacking Barrack Obama.

This was the smart strategy I guess, since I am not a highly paid political consultant. All I am is a voter in the Democratic primary who is waiting for a nominee to be chosen so I can start contributing. I am not rich, so I want to give when it really counts, and that is in the general election, since the last thing I want to see is 8 more years of the same old thing.

I had high hopes for Hillary. I liked the New Hampshire Hillary who spoke with conviction regarding why she wanted to be President, rather than the attack dog Hillary celebrated by the political pundits. I really would have liked to see who is better at attacking McCain. Hillary tried to show this, by showing how good she was at attacking Obama, which did not really translate for me. In other words, Hillary's sell appeared to be that I because I am good at attacking Barrack Obama, I will be good at attacking the Republicans. Obama, on the other hand, simply attacked the Republicans.

Now, Hillary is bashing Bush and McCain, which is what I would have liked to see from the outset. However, the campaign experts on Hillary's staff dictated otherwise.

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. "her campaign managers know more than I do about getting elected"

I think you assume too much.

[demokatgurrl]

25. As one who has been on and off the fence

I can relate. But I've grown tired of Clinton. She'll go after Repubs like McCain when it serves HER purpose. She had to step into that one. She was not really defending Obama, she was trying to show her Democratic bona fides.
Very transparent.

And I was a Clinton supporter! After I was an Edwards supporter. After I was a Kucinich supporter.
But I ended up voting for Obama, and now I wish his lead were bigger because I am frankly afraid of what's going to happen at, or before, the convention when the DNC gets involved.

[Median Democrat]

26. Agree, I Would Have Liked To Have Seen . . .

A Hillary campaign that did not try to overwhelm me with the hundred and one ideas she had, which always made me wonder why she had not introduced legislation to that effect. Rather, I would have like a focused discussion of what is different between her George Bush, and why that is better. I also would like some upfront discussion on who would lose out, and why.

Someone said that Obama was her opponent, which is why she ran the campaign that she did. That's the problem. Obama is not President. Obama is a junior senator, and Hillary wants to define her campaign by being anti-Obama. It might work, but it does not get me excited to rush out and knock doors on her behalf. Also, as a minority, the white working class will not vote for a minority rubbed me the wrong way. Yes, that is my bias, sorry to say.

In other words, Obama for the most part, ran as though George Bush was his opponent. Hillary ran against Barrack Obama. I know that this is what the pundits said that Hillary should do, and they would like to take credit for Hillary's wins in State's whose demographics favored her. However, I personally think that she would have carried those states without rubbing our nose in the fact that "working class whites" won't vote for a Black man.

In the end, Hillary Clinton disappointed me. She ran a campaign that the political pundits said she had to run, but left non-professional little old me, scratching his head regarding what she stood for, except for everything that was not Barrack Obama. Barrack did not get the U.S. into the mess it is in. George Bush did.

[paulk]

27. god forbid we focus on "electibility"

since Democrats are so good at winning national elections.

[Median Democrat]

28. George Bush Was Electable. . .

That does not make me want to vote for him, let alone rush out and convince friends and family to vote for him.

[paulk]

30. faulty logic

[Median Democrat]

31. Nonresponsive Response

nm

[paulk]

34. false analogy

false premise

red herring

take your pick.

[Median Democrat]

36. That's Conclusion, Not Analysis

Saying that it is false, does not make it so, unless you are George Bush.

[Seabiscuit]

35. The primary season is still alive and kicking. She's not running against Bush/McSame right now,

she's running against Obama for the nomination.

That is and must remain her focus from now until the Convention. So cut her some slack.

Then your appetite for GE attacks by our nominee will be satisfied as whoever it is (and all other senior dems) will be going all out against Bush/McSame.