I am a bleeding heart Dem that has been bled out.

[blues90]

I think back to when Reagan got everything he wanted while we had a majority of Dems in the house yet Reagan was allowed freedom to begin the phase I of the destruction of this country.

Even now we have a majority as slim as it is but still Bush gets and has got everything he wanted as well.

Now here we are once again being told and thinking there is some vast , definable difference between the two parties and I really wonder if there is.

They talk about rights and freedom and the poor yet nothing has changed other than we have now more poor than ever before.

Somehow people seem to think that with a half black half white president things will somehow change .

I have seen the Clinton's who while in office were torn down each and everyday, yet this was fine , people liked them for the most part but now they are scum.

We have so many deadly issues that there is no way to find the end of the ball of thread and figure out where to begin change. The fact is change comes from the people not some fake figure head.

Obama seems to feel his words alone will stop the attacks by the right. This I got to see in a country filled with racists as if has always been.

It's almost a joke where the peoples focus is all on the primaries and race and reverse racism and sexism , this is while the world is coming apart at the seams.

Now that we live in this global economy there is no turning back and no one has the fix. It's always easy to lay out grand plans while one is sitting in the house but quite another to live in reality.

I see the effects of decades of presidents and so called leaders and yet here we are in the 21st century worse off than ever before for so very many reasons.

When will the people wake the hell up?

[anonymous171]

1. "We are the change we have been waiting for" "Yes We Can"

[murielm99]

3. Yeah. Asinine slogans address the problems the OP

enumerates. How intelligent.

[anonymous171]

5. He said that Obama was a figurehead that claimed to have the power to change everything.

Those slogans prove him wrong. It's not about Obama, it's about US.

[blues90]

18. What are you talking about?

I SAID ALL !!!!!!!!! politicians through out my life were and are figure heads who change nothing. I said one thing about Obama which is a true statement he made. Slogans , jesus! What the hell do slogans have to do with REALITY?

[anonymous171]

20. "The fact is change comes from the people not some fake figure head."

Your words.

[Mags]

15. Hey, they have been programed, they can't help it.

[anonymous171]

17. See post #5.

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. Obama offers much more than 'just words'. Try looking at his website.

What do YOU offer?

[blues90]

9. Define a web site, is it not just words and graphic's?

What do I offer? I am not running a campaign. Asking that is an insane cop out. If I asked you what you had to offer what would I get?

I am pointing out reality, things I've seen and heard my entie life of 59 years and yet all I see is times worse than before. This is not the great depression , we are not even close to times like that , it's a different world now , no comparison.

Give me a break with the web site crap, it's not reality is an add just like on the TV set selling a personality.

I can or anyone can build a web site , we can say anything we want.

This is not about just Obama , I used him as one reference so don't come along reading what you want into what I said. I made a point about figure heads meaning all politicians sitting in the house or white house and what have they done with their positions that have done anything to better this country and keep it that way.

If as many people would have gone to DC as they do Obama or Hillary rallies then just perhaps we would not have had 8 years of bush or have allowed the attack on Iraq. It must come from the people , the reps work for the people.


If I recall most of the population was for attacking Iraq now when the shit hit the fan it's now a brave new world. Bullshit !

[Butch350]

39. You Started the Thread...

And all of the comp-out answer you can summon up is " You're not running for office"?

[blues90]

49. Absolutely I started the thread

Where did you see where I was offering solutions or implied I had them? It was a rant not a damn debate. I have my own solutions for dealing with my own problems in my own life. I see the things I see happening so I expressed them.

I don't know a damn thing about you or your life or anyone elses here, all I know is what sort of replies I have got and can tell why I got them, that is not difficult.

[Birthmark]

4. I think it's pretty much over.

I'm about done with politics entirely. Goin' off grid. Maybe I'll watch how this clusterfuck turns out on satellite. Maybe not.

[Occam Bandage]

6. If you're looking for policies, try his website. If you're engaging in a

"oh, what's the point, everything sucks and nobody can fix it without The Revolution and everyone is too lazy for The Revolution to occur" howl, then Godspeed.

[KoKo]

7. I read it that the OP is being cautious saying that even with a Dem President

and Dem Congress we don't always get what we are hoping for, so it's important to keep at the really important issues so they don't forget who put them in office. And, if they get there will they still be hounded by Repugs like Clintons were with a Dem Congress before we lost it.

I read it as "cautionary" given all the euphoria and high hopes around here that just electing a Dem President who isn't a Clinton will be the Magic Door to a future that will undo what the Repugs have done. It might not work that way for us and so we need to focus on past the election. :shrug:

[blues90]

13. You got it all wrong and you damn well know it.

Your type of crap may work on a fool.

[KoKo]

46. Who are you speaking to?

:shrug:

[murielm99]

42. Maybe I am reading into it, but I also saw that our party

rolls over too easily. We did not have to go along with everything Reagan did. We can fight these current republicans much harder than we are doing. (I think maybe a few are starting to do it).

Even if we get a Democratic President, our Congress has to keep fighting. It is unlikely that we will get a veto-proof or filibuster-proof majority, but we will have a majority that should be strong enough get our programs through.

I wish we had a master parliamentarian like LBJ. Say what you like about the man, he knew how to get things done in the Senate.

[FredScuttle]

8. If you can't recognize the VAST, DEFINABLE difference between Dems and the GOP

Well, there's very little I can do for you and I wish you well in voting for Nader.

[blues90]

11. Did I ask for you to do anything for me?

I don't want your help or do I desire it. You are just another Obama supporter shoving your two cents in where it was not invitd or asked for . Just stay with what you can handle and understand. What you do is read into something that has nothing to do with who I should or would vote for and this proves you did not read my OP , you ran with it and tried to make it what you want and that won't happen.

Have you no control over where you post empty comments?

[FredScuttle]

50. "...here we are once again being told and thinking there is some vast , definable difference

the two parties and I really wonder if there is."

Direct quote from your OP.

You are beyond my (or anybody else's) help if the last 7+ years haven't shown you the light.

I didn't ask you to vote for Obama....just simply get your head out of your ass, stop moping and get active!

[hfojvt]

54. your reply here is much better than the OP

The OP was sort of a "gosh life sucks, the world is going to hell, everybody's miserable or deluded". I guess I might have written the same thing when I was in my twenties. Life was not going the way I expected it to. My thirties kinda sucked too. Maybe now I am just more resigned to the "things I cannot change" but even though I am in a low status job and don't make very much money or do very fun work, and don't have many friends or social life or love life or prospects thereof. Still I find that I am more engaged and happily occupied than at any point in my life.

Maybe it's just the internet. It will be decades, if ever, before I run out of things to research and read and write even if some of the things I read are kinda foolish and so are some of the things I write.

Activity might be the key. You become too busy to mope.

[FredScuttle]

60. Cheers

Hope is something you have no control over....however, ACTION is!

[Gore1FL]

51. Did posting on a message board imply you wanted people to do something for you?

specifically, post a response?

[murielm99]

55. You must not spend much time here.

I am a Clinton supporter, fool. Ask anyone. I am surprised that the Obamabots have not yet targeted me for banning.

As someone else here said, I will vote for Obama if he is the nominee, but it will be the most joyless vote I have ever cast.

[DangerDave921]

29. Vast?

I don't know if I'd go that far. Sure there are differences. But actually, there are a lot of similarities too. I am leery of all politicians for the simple reason that they want to hold power over me. And that they will do anything to get the money to retain the power over me. Always makes me suspicious of politicians.

Honestly, my life hasn't been all that different between the Clinton years and the Bush years.

[hfojvt]

52. just goes to show those politicians do not have power over you

I can't think of any politician that has power over me. Not even the city council even though I work for the city. Bush? Does he have power over me? Could he call me up on the phone right now and tell me to go buy a pack of cigarettes? I just don't see this power.

The things that really impact my life, like my job, paycheck, work environment, my friends, my lovers (or the lack thereof), electricity, water, natural gas, availabilty of food, drinks, etc. Those are not under the direct control of any politician. I am sure that government policies have an impact, but not in such a way that I perceive the government or any elected official or bureaucrat to have direct power over me.

[DangerDave921]

61. Wrong

No, they can't call you and make you get them a cup of coffee. But in the laws they pass, and especially in the regulatory laws they allow agencies to pass, the politicians have a lot of power over you.

[uberblonde]

10. "Change" is like a diaper.

Change it, but it's still going to fill up with crap.

[jillan]

38. I love it, and I hope you don't mind - I'm borrowing that !!

[Nederland]

12. What's wrong with a global economy?

Just curious...

[ulysses]

37. I was wondering where you were a while back.

:hi:

[Fredda Weinberg]

14. I see a future n/t

[End Of The Road]

16. "there is no way to find the end of the ball of thread "

I agree very much with this, sorry to say that we must be in the same depressed boat.

[blues90]

23. That is exactly what this entire mess we are in looks like

to me. Where on earth would anyone begin with the countless issues we face today. We are hated over the globe and that is just one of the thousands of problems we face.

[End Of The Road]

25. I was once hopeful that we'd have a candidate who

at least had found a good place to start. Something quasi-linear, like "if we fix problem #7, it will help fix problem #42, which will save money to help fix problem #217, and then we can work on......

Silly me.

[thoughtcrime1984]

19. What constitutes "waking the hell up"?

Realizing that we're DOOMED and just roll over and accept our slow death? Damn, you're depressing. What are YOUR solutions? Obama is trying to make the people feel empowered to bring about change. I don't know exactly what you are trying to say.... Overthrow the government? Anarchy?

[blues90]

27. Obama has a simple message , I understand it

You don't. He is telling the people the people have to make the changes.

This is what burns my ass. Instead the people act as if Obama will do it all as if he has the answers. Inspiration is one thing , the work is quite another.

What I am saying it that if the people sit there and allow things to be decided and controlled for them then yes all hope is lost. This is the way many other presidents approached the people with the very same message as Obama . Did it work , did it last , absolutely not.

When the people decide enough is enough is the day things will change , when people decide they can live without wars and oil and murder, things will change.

Yes all politicians are figure heads , they work for the all the people not just the ones who have the prime time and money.

[quakerboy]

58. The difference is in the resistance

No matter who is in "charge" we have to do the work. But who is officially "king of the hill" does make a difference. Will they work with us or will they fight us? will it take a hundred thousand of us to convince them, or a hundred million to force them? That is the difference I perceive.

[sandnsea]

21. Look at Obama's Illinois Record

He introduced a constitutional amendment to make health care a right. Go look at the rest of what he did for the poor in Illinois. Look at the education legislation he passed in DC. He gets the difference between bottom up global trade and top down corporatism. Read some Susan Rice. Wake up yourself.

[thoughtcrime1984]

24. I think this person just likes to wallow in despair, so I wouldn't bother

pointing out facts and the good qualities of our candidate. Just a waste of our time, and with that, I am leaving this thread alone.

[blues90]

31. look into to your own mirror !

Stop passing judgement when you have nothing from your own mind to offer. Good bye!

[thoughtcrime1984]

45. You seem to be the ultimate passer of judgment

You do not know half of what you claim to.

[blues90]

47. Show me where I made a judgement ?

I voiced an opinion. You sit there telling me I don't know half of what I'm talking about, how would you define that comment?

This is all i said in reference to Obama .

"Somehow people seem to think that with a half black half white president things will somehow change ."

"Obama seems to feel his words alone will stop the attacks by the right. This I got to see in a country filled with racists as if has always been."

This is a big deal however true it might be?



I don't know why you chimed in in the first place other than to leap to Obama's defense. All anyone has to do here is mention the name Obama and if it rubs you the wrong way then there you are on the defense.

You don't know a damn thing about me and I did not go after you, you made the choice to chime in.

I see hundreds of topics here and just by the title I know whether I show bother or not.

Just because I don't see things the way you do does this mean there is a right and wrong here or personal opinions?

No one can have a disscussion here without someone always jumping in with the Obama defense tactics.

[murielm99]

56. None of that was Obama's legislation in Illinois.

Emil Jones handed it to him after other people had nurtured it for years. Jones wanted to be a kingmaker, and he got his way.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. The American Empire is crumbling. Obama, at least, is less likely to do as much harm.

Empire's rise and fall, our turn has come, whether we descend gracefully to "second rate power" status or make a bloody exit to has-been status is up to us.

Hillary's threats and swaggering bode ill for a gracious exit.

[blues90]

36. There is a much larger power at play here.

No president has the control, they either go along or they are dealt with one way of another. The people better start deciding on their own how they will somehow survive this.

I don't know what makes people think that DC is somehow in touch with reality.

They are either evil and go along or threatened to play along. Look at what has not changed since Nov of 2006. There are no other options.

Why has Pelosi and Reid and many dems just gone along, they play along in fear of things we will never know about or they are just as evil and don't care. What other options are there?

[DangerDave921]

26. Wrong on one point

You say "here we are in the 21st century worse off than ever before." I have to disagree. There were plenty of worse times in the world. How about when women were virtually owned by men? How about when blacks were slaves? Or when kids routinely worked in dangerous jobs? Or when people died of common illnesses because there were no such things as antibiotics or vaccines? Or when there was no centralized sanitation of water and our own waste removal? Or when books were unheard of except in the monasteries and castles. I could go on and on.

I am glad to live in today's world.

[blues90]

28. And we are headed right back there again.

It takes a job and money and a conscience . Without these what have you got with all the things you listed ?

[DangerDave921]

30. Not sure what you mean

Sorry, I'm not clear what point you're making.

[blues90]

32. If people cannot afford these advances then who do they serve?

Many of the other issues still exist they are just not right out there in the news, if that's what it can be called.

[Romulox]

40. Excellent point. The well-off enjoy their degree of luxury *precisely* because ordinary workers

suffer.

Telling an out of work manufacturing worker about the wonders of modern medicine (if you have money, of course,) is almost cruel.

[End Of The Road]

34. Funny you should mention conscience.

I have been utterly dismayed by the number of politicians who put party ideology ahead of plain ol' democracy. Take DeLay, for example. His desire for a permanent republican majority led to blatantly attempts to disenfranchise non-republicans. The courts haven't decided yet if it was all legal, but the mindset was treasonous, IMO. No candidate this time around is strong enough to combat it.

[Mimosa]

53. Not all gloom and doom

DangerDave, this is a big forum but I'm going to make a point to remember you because you have historical perspective.

[DangerDave921]

62. Thanks

It is an easy fallacy to believe that things used to be better. One of the funniest things I ever saw was a collection of quotes from retired baseball players lamenting the newer players -- not as skilled, not as disciplined, only in it for the money, etc. And at the end, you learn that these quotes were from 1916! It's almost human nature to want to believe that things are worse now.

[barack the house]

33. The vast difference of a black candidate is black people know the pain longer..

.. Blback people have lived the rejection by elite power longer and so know with more clarity what needs to be done.

[Butch350]

35. Wake The Hell Up and Do

Eactly what?

We can all sit down and write what's wrong with something. Will you please specify what it is that I am suppose to
wake UP and do?

Quit bringing me down will ya.

Let's just wait and see what the next Elected Democratic POTUS will do.

So your not even gonna give Barack a fricken chance before you start ragging.

SO DAMMIT ENLIGHTEN ME - JUST WHAT IS IT. What are you gonna wake up an do? Come on - thrill me.

[blues90]

41. I am going to do what I have always done.

Live small , don't drive unless there is no way around it or buy things because they are the newest thing. I don't need this STUFF to live.

I won't lie and lead people on.

I spent my years in the 60's trying with all sorts of opposition and what I see in reality is we have as a people become more and more greedy and more out of touch.

There is always created ways to make money by selling things we don't need . People did fine before these came along and they can do so again.

I was always against wars or any kind, and did a lot to protest these , but just as now most people can't be bothered.

It is not up to me to give Obama a chance , I know were we are and where things stand. I don't need to wait and see.

JFK inspired as did many others during that time.

I can't tell anyone what to do and I won't , each has to decide for themselves. I just know from my own lifes experience that I don't believe in anyone. Not anymore but you certainly can. I did.

[Honeycombe8]

59. Thanks for the uplifting, optimistic vote for your country and mine!

If you have any more great ideas or ways to lift us all up, by all means, post them!

Maybe you should go see the new Indiana Jones movie. It might pick your spirits up.

As for me, I have a belief in the country we call home, that we will get things to be better. Americans are a hardy, and hearty, group of people who are capable of both horrible and amazing things. We have been through a bit of the horrible. It's time for a little of the amazing part.

The world goes 'round, no matter what. Things get worse, then they get better. The stock market goes down, then it goes up. We run out of this kind of fuel, so we find another. We enter a war, then we leave it.

Things will get better. But to start, we do need something, someone different.

[blues90]

63. All I can do is face reality

It is not my intent to life people up or depress them. If the facts out there that we face are not uplifting, what can I say?

I don't agree with some of your thought's.

Yes things get worse and then better but I find it un-acceptble that millions of people have to die just so americans might find their way out or forward. Or that we went on with the fuels we still use damaging the planet and murdering people so we have what we need at someone elses expense as we turn a blind eye to it all.

When thing become not about the money then perhaps thing will get better and stay that way.

[DemGa]

43. But "Hope and change" just feels so good

Never mind the lack of substance or precedent - it's just got to work! Whatever it is...

[blues90]

44. That's what hope is really all about.

It's a word that is used to instill the ability to keep going no matter what the odd's.

I look at all the bush admin has gotten away with to this point. Where are all these people like Rummy and Torture boy and the rest of the criminals?

I look at 9/11 and Katrina and this Iraq occupation. Two stolen elections and all the crimes , yet nothing happenes. There was all the talk about impeachment yet bush is still there.

If they can get away with this and have continued as they ahve even to this day , then it is quite possible we could be looking at an attack on Iran and martial law and no elections.

I really don't feel we are out of the woods because of elections and the distraction they create. These people are to close to their long term plan to just walk away and risk trial.

They don't care how many deaths it takes , we can see the proof of this everywhere one looks. People may choose to pass it off but the reality does exist.

[Jamastiene]

48. You actually make some very valid points.

We have our choices and we do the best we can, though, but it could be lots better than this.

[Honeycombe8]

57. "[p]eople seem to think that with a half black half white president..."

You said, "Somehow people seem to think that with a half black half white president things will somehow change."

Let's call it like it is. That is a blatant racist statement on the face of things.

Did you recognize this in yourself before, or are you now just becoming aware of this?

Before you argue that it's not racist, read the statement again. I know of no one who is voting for a "half black half white president" who they think will fix things. I HAVE seen many people on TV rallying to the support of a politician that they think will bring much needed change to the country.

Out of all the nasty posts I've read tonight, this is one of the worst. And the saddest part is...you may not even realize how racist your beliefs are. (Note: The racist tag is unlike the "sexist" tag that some are trying to pin on other re Hillary; your statement is racist on its face, and even calls the candidate by his race rather than his name or anything else. A statement like "people think that voting for a fat, middle aged, white woman who is having hormone issues will fix the country's problems." Of course, no one is voting for such a person. They are, however, voting for a former First Lady and current New York Senator, hoping she will fix the problems.)

[Spazito]

64. Change WILL happen when people stop wanting someone else to do the work....

and start doing some of the damn work themselves. Moaning about what others, including politicians, aren't doing FOR you doesn't change a DAMN thing.

Spend LESS time waiting for change to come and MORE time working for it.