If Obama loses the GE....

[Blarch]

it won't be his fault ...it won't be Hillary's fault.

It will be the fault of the American people.

If you try and teach a monkey long division you will fail ...not because you approached the issue in the wrong manner,it is because the monkey is too stupid to learn long division.

The American people still might be too stupid to save themselves. The writing is on the wall, and if they are too stupid to read it ...it won't be anybodys fault but their own. This election isn't a test for Obama or McCain ...it is a test for the American people.

With that said. Obama will win the GE ...it will be one of the largest landslides in recent history.

[LakeSamish706]

1. Lol.. I have been making posts like this for some time now... If the American people...

vote for McCain and he wins the Presidency, then they deserve what they get and will have to live with it... The only problem with that is, the rest of the world also suffers with this scenario and that sucks big time.

[candice]

37. The media wants to elect Obama, so as long as they don't start falling

in love with Maverick McCain, he's going to win!

But the MSM did sell us Bu$h over Gore, over Kerry, and I didn't fall for Axelrod's rerun of the Deval Patrick ad campaign for Obama.

We are the people we are waiting for? How dumb is that!

Take a chance on your own aspirations? No, I'd rather vote for a qualified candidate.

[stillcool]

63. and don't forget Reverend Wright!!

they pimped that about as hard as the Iraq War.

[AndyTiedye]

67. Where is This Media That Wants Obama to Win?

OK, they want him to win the primary, but for the general election they are totally in the tank for McCain and the Repiglickins'.

[shenmue]

2. Calling American people stupid is not a good way to win votes.

This is what you call a strategy?

Oh, by the way, Bush isn't running. He can't.

[anigbrowl]

3. Case in point.

[Exilednight]

4. McBush is running. n/t

[Blarch]

5. should I ignore reality ?

Look around you ...Most Americans are idiots.

[Honeycombe8]

10. I wouldn't put it that way, but you are right. After the horrible things * did, they voted him in .

they voted him in a 2nd time by an even larger margin than the first time. It was mind boggling, prompting a U.K. paper headline to come out the next morning, "HOW COULD 40,000,000 PEOPLE BE THIS STUPID?"

It was obvious to the world how terrible the administration was, but half the registered voters in the country voted him in again. It was unbelievable.

[msallied]

28. I remember that headline. I remember never having felt so bewildered and heartbroken

by the actions of my own country. At least second to the Iraq War.

[Kaleko]

65. I can assure you that most Europeans

will agree with you that way too many Americans are idiots. Specifically, they're perceived as isolated, brainwashed, uneducated, criminally dumb fucks - and flaunting it as if it were an accomplishment.

Anyone not ignoring that reality gets three thumbs up :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[msallied]

21. You prove the OP's point.

And hint: a lot of Americans are stupid. In fact, most of them take pride in it.

[stratomagi]

49. Would you prefer masochistic then? nt

[unblock]

6. no way in hell!

if obama loses, it will most assuredly be the result of yet another election theft by the reich wing.

please don't blame the american people, except perhaps for failing to figure out an effective way to thwart the will of the massively powerful corporatists.

[highplainsdem]

7. This is exactly the sort of attitude that leads people who aren't already Obama fans

to view him and his supporters as elitist and cultlike.

Of course it will go over well here at DU where, for the most part, you're preaching to the choir.

This is likely to be a close election. The Democrats have a better chance now than they have had at times in the past.

One thing that will make it much more difficult for Obama to win, assuming he's the nominee -- as looks likely -- is any perception among the general public that his supporters feel the way you do toward the American people.

If you want to hurt his chances in November, be sure to make as many voters as possible aware of how you feel about them.

[Honeycombe8]

9. What is wrong with his post? He's pro-Obama and optimistic, to be sure.....

but he doesn't slam Clinton. He concedes in the beginning that "if Obama loses the GE" (admitting it's a possibility). And he states that if either Clinton or Obama lose the GE (he's saying that Clinton may even be the nominee..that's rare, these days), it'll be the fault of the same public that voted for Bush TWICE.

That is not elitist at all, and in no way cult-like.

I am thinking the Hillary supporters have lost all objectivity and see everyone and everything as bad, unless they are saying outright that Hillary is entitled to win, will win, and has made no significant mistakes in her life whatsoever. It's getting surreal.

[highplainsdem]

14. He's saying Americans are idiots if they don't elect Obama.

The imagery of teaching a monkey long division is really contemptuous, too.

This has nothing to do with supporting Hillary or Obama or any other candidate. This is basic politics. You are NOT going to bring in people to support your candidate by treating them as if they're idiots who have to support your candidate, as a way to redeem themselves, or they'll supposedly prove they're idiots.

This will alienate even more people than telling them they're racist if they don't vote for Obama.

And when his supporters say this kind of thing, they sound like delusional new converts to some religion who simply can't understand why others won't instantly convert, and who are also convinced others are damned if they don't see the light.

[newmajority]

15. 70% of the people in this country, at one time, believed IRAQ was in 9-11

Despite the complete and total lack of one single shred of evidence proving that to be the case.

That's more ignorance than it is outright idiocy, but if their main argument for NOT voting for a candidate is "he's black", then yes those people would be racist fucking idiots. You just can't get around that fact.

[Orsino]

24. I doubt the electorate will be intimidated by a post hidden away on DU.

Those who would be offended are idiots for choosing McCain over Obama.

I don't know whether Obama (or Clinton) is the candidate to "save" us, but I know damned well McCain isn't. Are most Americans smart enough to pull back from conservatism? I have my doubts.

[Honeycombe8]

25. You're objecting to a monkey ref. to "the chimp" after all these years of comparisons

on DU to that? It's a running joke in this forum. You know....Bush is called "chimp." There's a photo of him scratching his head, and the chimp is trying to calculate figures on a blackboard. It's standard DU stuff.

Also...he didn't say Americans were idiots if they voted against Obama. He implied they were stupid if they didn't vote for EITHER OBAMA OR CLINTON (whoever the Dem. nominee is) because....well, we all know why, unless you've been sleeping these past 7 years.

As I said, all objectivity has been lost by some Hillary supporters. They cannot seem to discuss the election at all anymore.

[msallied]

26. You are reading way too much into this.

Americans have time and again voted against their best interests, and THAT is what the OP was talking about. Your hyperbole about Obama supporters being part of a cult is ridiculous. WE haven't changed. We're the same dedicated, idealistic, optimistic Democrats who rallied behind our nominee and watched in disgust as Bush Co nearly ruined our great nation. You hold-outs are helping NO ONE but are concerned only about your egos, feelings, and self-interests and have exposed the nasty, cynical underbelly of this party.

[Liberal Gramma]

62. If Americans vote for a third Republican term after

the last two disasterous ones, then they ARE idiots. Even some Republicans see that.

[MyNameGoesHere]

12. Well in this realm i have always said

i like the candidates message of hope, unity and change. His supporters here can go pack sand. Or maybe they could actually listen and learn from his message?

[highplainsdem]

40. I agree. I have to keep distinguishing between Obama and many of his supporters here.

[msallied]

23. If you can't get the point of this post, you ARE an idiot.

[Honeycombe8]

8. I don't know about a landslide. But I agree w/your assessment of the public...

after all, look who they voted for in 2004! (even with the fraud, he should've lost by a landslide, so that the fraud wouldn't have mattered.)

[Thrill]

11. We'll never win a Presidential Election again if this country elects Grandpa

If Grandpa wins. The Republicans have perfected the art of scaring up votes in Presidential Elections.

[msallied]

29. Fixing elections, more like.

[LWolf]

13. If Obama loses the GE,

it will be his fault for not being able to win the votes, assuming that there are no election dysfunctions, and the fault of the majority of democrats who nominated him.

When does the blame game ever stop? Why not just be accountable for our choices?

It's not because everyone who disagrees with you, and doesn't vote the way you want them to, is "stupid." :eyes:

[swishyfeet]

16. America elected Bush for a second term. DUMBASSES!!

It's irrefutable.

[sandnsea]

17. If you try to teach me calculus

You will fail miserably. It is not because you are a bad teacher or have faulty information, it's because you're trying to teach me something I simply CAN'T learn. If Obama tries to tell people information that is so far over their heads that they'll never be able to grasp it, then that is the problem and yes it will be Obama's fault. And the Democratic Party. And if there are Democrats here who don't get that, then you are part of the problem too.

[BlooInBloo]

22. I wouldn't fail at that. You'd be wondering why you never learned it earlier.

[sandnsea]

27. nope, you really couldn't

I have done Algebra 3 times myself, once with my husband, and 2-3 times a piece with each of my kids. I didn't know a heck of a lot more about algebra at the end than I did at the beginning. I can look at a problem, look at the equations, and not know why one should be used and when. I just do not get it. And at my age, forget it. Not much of anything I can learn anymore. There really are things that are just over the heads of some people, everybody isn't as smart as everybody else. Then consider time available and motivation, and you can see why some people just can't learn the intricacies of all the policies that are presented.

[BlooInBloo]

30. I hear you. But you can. :)))

[sandnsea]

33. I think there's a communication gap

I think there's something going on in the math that isn't getting translated to the language oriented person. I also think if they started introducing mathematical 'language' at an earlier age, there wouldn't be so much confusion when kids hit algebra. At one of the most difficult times in the human life, puberty, our education system decides to introduce some of the most difficult concepts there are. It's kind of crazy.

[BlooInBloo]

34. No communication gap. We just disagree on your abilities. :)

(And yes, I perfectly realize the oddness of saying to a person I know only thru the intertoobs.)

Not everyone can be Michael Jordan in basketball. But pretty much everyone can attain basic competence at the game. Math is no different.

[msallied]

36. I personally knew that I was reaching the end of my limit

when I was asked to prove the quadratic formula. lol

[BlooInBloo]

39. Hah! Completing the square RULES! :))))

EDIT: If it were up to me, nobody would even be taught the quadratic formula, but rather only the completing the square process.

[msallied]

43. AAAAHHH!! Flashbacks!

I'm gonna go find the slope of a line so I can feel smart again. lol

[BlooInBloo]

44. Heh. Not to spoil it, but it turns out to be constant.

:P

[msallied]

50. Well that is true. I have to admit...

although I am not a numbers gal in the slightest, I can get down and dirty with some linear equations. lol

[BlooInBloo]

52. That's hawt.

:rofl:

[sandnsea]

41. If that were true

Why aren't there a lot more scientists? And if it's just the teacher, why doesn't anybody in my family know math any better than I do. And why did my niece, who has been a straight-A student since kindergarten and is now getting her PhD in psychology, need an Algebra tutot. Math is hard. There might be methods in which it could make sense, but I haven't seen that happen yet.

I don't mean a communication gap between me and you. I mean a communication gap between the mathematical mind and the linguistic mind, as it pertains to math.

[BlooInBloo]

51. A complete answer would depend rather heavily on the details of everyone's personal history....

The vast majority of which I'm not privy to, unfortunately. :P

But the teachers are the nub of that particular problem, which over a person's and a society's time leave the current population with the absurd notion that "math is hard". When the blind are leading the blind, no-one should be surprised at the results.

[msallied]

53. You sound just like my previous Algebra professor.

He had an amazing way of drawing out abilities in adults that they never thought they had, all because he had the attitude that it was assumed that if you had a fully-functioning brain, you could do math. No one felt intimidated, and so many people blossomed as a result. I never in my life thought I would get A's in math. I failed basic Algebra three times in high school, had to take the standardized state tests three times and had consistently gotten failing marks in math throughout elementary and junior high. I was as defeated as they came.

[BlooInBloo]

54. "it was assumed that if you had a fully-functioning brain, you could do math"

I assumed it when I first started teaching, but thankfully it turned out to empirically true, across thousands of students, schools, geographic regions, cultural backgrounds, and any other variable I can think of.

EDIT: As a matter of practicality, the biggest issue is getting the little monsters to stop *clenching* when they see the mathematical hen-scratches. Once that's achieved, it goes much more smoothly.

[sandnsea]

55. A country of lousy teachers

is that it?

Or perhaps, you have bridged the communication gap. The greatest thing I learned in Algebra is how to think analytically, to pay attention to process and detail. But I still couldn't figure out a way to remember which formula to apply to which equation, or why I follow the exact process of add, subtract, multiply, divide, inside-out, and still end up with the wrong answer because no, you're supposed to do this first when the numbers are like this. It shouldn't be hard, it's just piles of arithmetic for chrissake, but it is.

[BlooInBloo]

56. Basically, yah. Except that there's no gap to be bridged in the first place....

It's just the (metaphorically) blind teachers that lead one to think so. I don't deny that bridging a non-existent gap can be challenging in the *extreme*.

Do you commonly, as a rule, encounter great difficulty figuring out what word to write? No more should you in determining what operation to perform next.

After being properly taught, and sufficiently practiced, one's thoughts typically "write themselves". So, too, in math - one's problems "solve themselves". (I'm talking about the non-professional level, of course.)

I'M SERIES!@!!#@!!

:)

[sandnsea]

61. It's like learning a foreign language

and there's about as much success with Algebra as there is with high school Spanish. It's why I said I think kids should be introduced to as many more concepts and vocabulary as early as possible, so it becomes as second nature as language.

In any event, once a person is off working and raising a family, the likelihood that they will take the time to learn Algebra is about the same likelihood that they'll take the time to seek out additional information on foreign policy, health delivery, professional educators' challenges, etc. A lot of people are running on the equivalent to an arithmetic mind and they really aren't going to get any better.

[BlooInBloo]

64. Yup. It *is* learning another language. It's definitely easier to get 'em while they're young...

No doubt about that.

But of course, a sine qua non is to have someone who speaks the language fluently as the teacher. Someone steeped in "Spanish Education" coursework, without being fluent in Spanish is a predictable disaster. Similarly in math.



EDIT: Small clarification added.

[Jed Dilligan]

70. This reminds me of when I introduced the idea

of a "distributive property" in fiction to my writing workshop. At first, mad fury, but in the end people started referring to it all the time.

[Patchuli]

59. "blind are leading the blind"=No Child Left Behind

and there you have it. Don't blame the teachers who are there wanting desperately just to teach; blame the gubmint who think they know how teachers should teach!

[BlooInBloo]

69. Yah - like education was soooooo grand before nclb ruined it. Not.

Teachers below the university level commonly knew little about their fields then, and they commonly know little about their fields now.

That's not NCLB's fault, although other things are. Still other things are parents' faults.

They *want* to teach - and that's wonderful. I happen to think they should also know the subjects they teach. I'm funny that way.

[Patchuli]

73. And how many teachers do you know?

And how many children have complained to you personally that they are tired of taking tests and would like to learn something important for a change. NCLB is a disaster. Do NOT blame the teachers, overworked and underpaid as they are.

[BlooInBloo]

74. Sigh. There are *numerous* problems. One is NCLB. Another is that teachers are stupid....

Another is that there's not enough funding. Another is that parents suck.

Teachers being smart and knowledgeable is a sine qua non of a successful educational system. We don't currently have that. Therefore that's one of the things that needs to be worked on.

[Patchuli]

76. Teachers are not "stupid"

and not all parents "suck" and I can't believe how simplistic your answer is to what is the problem. I believe the kids who say they are sick of government tests and just want to learn. That is the biggest problem. Ignorance foisting itself upon education. Your response as outlined above is just a slam on some of the hardest working people I've ever known. And no one cares for kids as much as parents and teachers!

[AndyTiedye]

72. Calculus, easy! Basketball, forget it!

Not everyone can be Michael Jordan in basketball. But pretty much everyone can attain basic competence at the game.

Really bad example for the point you are trying to make. Basketball is the ultimate tall-person's sport.

Math is no different.

Math is easy for me. On the other hand, achieving "basic competence" at sports eludes me. Once I reach the limits of my coordination no further improvement occurs at all.

We are not all wired the same.

[msallied]

32. It's all about having the right teacher. :)

Math was never my strong subject. I never excelled in it until I got into college. lol

[msallied]

31. Well, it's a good thing that America's issues are easier to grasp than Calculus.

It's not so much that the issues are difficult, but that most people have a stubbornness and cynicism in them that is very difficult to break after years of being lead astray by the government. Obama has done a miraculous job of bring people into this process. I don't think he will fail us.

[sandnsea]

38. Foreign policy is easier than calculus?

I don't think so. The aluminum tubes, yellow cake, uranium enrichment, was not easy. Figuring out the right balance between open economic growth and gilded age greed isn't easy. How does one school with a $7,000 per kid budget produce smart kids and another with a $11,000 budget produces failinng kids. There are a lot of complex issues out there.

[msallied]

47. Sure there are complicated issues out there.

I wouldn't stipulate that. But most of it can be framed in a way for average folks to understand, if they are open to learning. There are so many ways to communicate issues so that they can be accessible by many. If people are not, however, you can't blame the candidate. There has to be a willingness to receive information if it's going to sink in. If you enter into anything with a closed, defeated mind, there isn't much that can be done.

[BlooInBloo]

18. (shrug) Every election is a referendum on the American character...

But depending on the details of what happens, something more specific may or may not be able to be said.

There's no way to say in advance, of course - that's just stupid.

[Perry Logan]

19. He will probably lose--partly his fault, partly another victory for the Arkansas Project.

Most of the damage to our party which has occurred during the primaries goes back to the multimillion-dollar smear campaign against the Clintons.

Many DUers were weaned on lies about the Clintons, and today they hate the Clintons, repeating as fact all the things the Repubs spent millions to spread around. When they talk about the Clintons, it sounds like a bad comic book or a softcore porn movie. In other words, it's like being at a Repub fundraiser!

Apparently, none of them checked out the truth of the accusations, so you still hear them today. They have gone on to add countless lies and false accusations of their own, following the MO set up by their Republican masters.

The psychotic fecklessness of the Obamites is now universally known and acknowledged by all but themselves, and it raises a question: how could Democrats be acting so much like Republicans?

I must sadly conclude we have been undone in 2008 because of the continued effect of the Arkansas Project--and the countless related campaigns by which the Right successfully took our President (and millions of our own members) away from us.

Obama's campaign deserves some of the blame for our imminent defeat, though, because they used the ill-feeling about the Clintons to win the primaries, thus splitting the party and destroying any chance they had in the GE. Calling their fellow Democrats racists was absolutely fatal.

[msallied]

20. Huge K&R!

[candice]

35. Yes, Hillary's fault...because she would win it!

Obama is too much in the Kerry elite mode to win over the Reagan voters or typical "sweeties."



http://youtube.com/watch?v=7UAFbMLZm4g&feature=related

[lojasmo]

48. Um, no.

Her negatives are sky high. If Clinton got the nom (she won't) I don't think she could win.

[NJSecularist]

42. If Obama loses the general election, it will be his fault and his fault only.

Which is looking more and more likely by the day.

[stevietheman]

45. Why are you doing this? Maybe it's time for a little self-assessment...

like asking yourself "Why am I so angry?"

[Shine]

46. If he loses, it will be because it was STOLEN....again.

I remain confident in an Obama landslide. The machines will be unhackable b/c so many will come out to vote. :toast: That said, we'll need to PAY ATTENTION and make sure we monitor what happens on Election Day.

The GOP won't go down without a fight.

[NJSecularist]

57. I see the Obamites have their excuses ready-made and sealed already. n/t

[hopein08]

58. Oops, I've likely failed already.

Some scenario there, Blarch. Obama would have to pick the perfect, and I do mean perfect, VP for me to even consider voting for him.

But the way to convince me otherwise is most assuredly NOT saying that I am too stupid to save myself. You see, my friend, there is something very un-American about calling people with other opinions stupid monkeys.

So good luck with your landslide, you do it without me.

[avenger64]

60. Wrong. It will be his fault.

He has a lead, and eight years of disaster brought on by the GOP that only a bad candidate couldn't exploit.

The only thing he can do now is screw up - stop trying to avoid accountability.

[VotesForWomen]

66. largest landslides in recent history.... heh. bookmarking. nt

[OneBlueSky]

68. actually, it will likely be the fault of the vote tabulators . . .

they seem to make a lot of mistakes in favor of Republican candidates, especially in close presidential elections . . . and they're untraceable! . . .

[crankychatter]

75. yup, windows platform, easily hacked - MSM not reporting exit polls anymore

Polling credibility called into question all year... day after day

and now the only exit polling they air is demographically parsed

so even a not so close election can swing wildly, given all the faux demographic issues the media raises, without raising an eyebrow

even overwhelming numbers may not be enough this time.

[papapi]

71. Virginia will be BLUE this fall!! And possibly the tie breaker!!!

[StevieM]

77. This post sums up what is about to happen to us. "It will be the fault of the American people"

This is a remarkable statement. The American people are always at fault/credit for what happens in an election. By definition it is their blame or their triumph.

If Obama can't win then maybe that reflects on something wrong with him, not something wrong with the country. Lord knows there is a great atmosphere out there for a Democrat.

I expect Obama to lose in a landslide. I think he'll carry Hawaii, Vermont and DC. That's it.

Steve

[Patchuli]

78. Too bad you don't just get behind 'whoever'

the Dem candidate is. Either way, McBush is the SSDD, only probably worse.