What if Hillary Treated Iowa like Obama Treated Kentucky & WVa?

[OzarkDem]

No wonder Obama is losing the Electoral Vote race...There's no way he will pick up any of the key swing states...


"In the walk-up to Kentucky's nomination contest this Tuesday, the closest he's come to its borders was when he was at home in Chicago on Thursday. Since then, he's gone off to South Dakota, Oregon (which also has a primary Tuesday, and where he was greeted by a massive crowd, at left, on Sunday) and Montana. Tuesday night will find him in Iowa -- not only the site of the caucus win that first fueled his candidacy, but a likely key swing state come November.


One, public protestations notwithstanding, his willingness to concede them to Hillary Clinton in the Democratic race is an unmistakable signal that as he and his aides look toward the general election, neither state figures in its Electoral College calculations. (They are not alone in this assumption -- an astute overlook of the electoral map posted on Salon.com late last week by Democratic pollster Paul Maslin did not include either on the list of 17 states he views as competitive, to varying degrees, in an Obama-John McCain match-up.)

Secondly, it caused us to hark back to the very early stages of the campaign and wonder: What if Clinton had followed the controversial advice of her then-deputy campaign manager, Mike Henry, and taken a pass on a full-fledged effort to win the Jan. 4 caucuses in Iowa?"




http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/05/what-if-hillary.html

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. "The electoral vote race"

:rofl:

Any port in a storm, I guess...

[terrell9584]

12. that is how we elect a president in this country

it is a valid argument. To a large extent, the assigning of delegates is just a recognition of that fact, because in a way, the delegates are electors in and of themselves

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. You let me know when Massachusetts and California vote Republican this fall

In fact, let's have a little wager. If

1)Obama wins the nomination AND
2)Either Massachusetts, California, or New York electoral votes go to the Republican and
3) Texas' electoral votes go to the Democrat THEN
I will donate $100 to DU.

If, on the other hand

1)Obama wins the nomination AND
2)Massachusetts, California, or New York electoral votes go to the Democrat and
3)Texas' electoral votes go to the Republican THEN
you donate $100 to DU

Put your money where your mouth is, Mr. Valid Argument.

[terrell9584]

39. There was nothing as disrespectful in what I wrote

As what I am seeing here. I shall address your argument however.

First, Obama pretty much has the nomination barring an act of God. Second, I never said anything about what states would do what or etc. It is a bad idea to assume things because when you assume something.......

I was making a point that we do elect Presidents by EV, we do. I prefer it this way because I don't live in a large population state, and even though I'm aware of the the fact that it is the only workable system in a country that is more of a collection of nations, rather that a single nation itself.

There are states that are in play electorally, it's undeniable, and my fear is that we could see a situation in which Obama scores a victory in the popular vote, but where McCain manages to pull 300 because of the EV map. Valid concern.

And none of what I just said was in any way rude or disrespectful.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Nope

The "electoral vote race," as the OP so disingenuously calls it, is meaningless at this point, if it's considered a race between primary opponents. It's more than invalid. It's dumb. You can't tack electoral votes to a primary candidate for the purpose of comparison, since the electoral votes have ZERO to do with the primary.

If they did, you'd take the bet rather than huffing and puffing about your above board behavior. But you didn't take the bet, and you won't, which says all we need to know about the "electoral vote race" as a way of comparing the relative electability of primary opponents.

[KSinTX]

40. Primaries don't have an electoral college

In GE, yes; once a nominee is declared, yes. Prior to that it's premature to make judgements to that end.

[OzarkDem]

13. You support winning the primary, but not the GE?

Interesting, and certainly too dumb for Democratic Party politics.

How do you plan to have Obama take the WH if he loses the GE? Will you all stage a demonstration and cry and stomp your feet until McCain lets him in?

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. Yes, my post indiciates that I really want to lose the general election

Simply because I find your use of apples and oranges an insufficient - correction, utterly laughable and desperate - measure.

You are an incisive and not at all pathetically flailing commentator.

[anonymous171]

2. lol nice try. I know it's hard for you to accept, but some people like Hillary.

Doesn't mean they don't like Obama or that they won't vote for him.

[democrattotheend]

3. She probably would have been better off if she skipped Iowa

And do I really need to make a list of all the primaries she blew off and dismissed as insignificant? At least Obama made a token effort in West Virginia...she did not even do that in a lot of states.

[Cant trust em]

4. She probably wouldn't have won the nomination.

Oh wait. She didn't win the nomination.

[Drunken Irishman]

5. Uhm, she already did.

Wisconsin, Minnesota, Oregon (believe it or not, Oregon is a swing state) and Colorado.

[Buzz Clik]

10. ding, ding ding!!!!

[Condem]

6. She would lose big, Ozark

Oh, thats right , she already did.

[skipos]

7. "Electoral race!" You are awesome!

Baghdad Bob would love your work!

[NYCGirl]

8. "The electoral vote race"!

[Buzz Clik]

9. You mean ... like she punted in Virginia? Wash DC? All of the caucus states? You mean like that?

[quantass]

11. Once Obama clintches the nomination can't he go back to WVa & Ken for the next 5 months!

[OzarkDem]

16. Good luck with that

They'll kick his bony ass out. People don't take kindly to being called racist.

[pdxmom]

20. Please provide the link to Obama calling anyone in those states racist. Thanks. N/T

[OzarkDem]

21. Pennsylvania - bitter remarks

Obama's remarks resonated across state lines. He won't win that state in the GE, either.

[Forkboy]

25. What's racist about being bitter?

[OzarkDem]

46. Ask the voters who don't like him

in the states he can't win in the GE. Make your sales pitch to them.

[Forkboy]

48. No, you tell me Ozark, don't backpeddle and chicken out. YOU made the charge.

I hate cowardly shit like you're trying to pull here. Back up YOUR OWN FUCKING WORDS. I asked YOU, and apparently you know it's fucking bullshit and don't really have an answer. You just want to take your bitterness and shit wherever you can like a spoiled little punk. Grow the fuck up.

[Forkboy]

49. Kick for OD.

:kick:

[chascarrillo]

14. Hoe many campaign stops did Hillary make in Washington?

There were all of two, if I remember correctly (Seattle and Spokane over two days, again, iirc).

[OzarkDem]

18. How many did she insult and call racist?

[chascarrillo]

23. I see you're unfamiliar with the "latte liberal" meme. Well, that's a plus, I guess.

[CreekDog]

15. well she did! for a while

[Kittycat]

17. This is one of those Epic Fail posts where the OP wishes

they could delete the thread, but too many people responded already.

[book_worm]

19. how absolutely ridiculous! how about all the states she wrote off and didn't campaign in

because they were "small, red states." There were a long string of states she wrote off and to the detriment of her campaign.

[yourguide]

22. What if Hillary Clinton didn't bother campaigning in Louisianna

Oh, that's right...she didnt

[CoffeeCat]

24. Hello? Can we face reality?

The race is OVER. There's no way she can win. It's about the delegate count. Period.

He's competing in the remaining states in which he can win. Why would he waste money
on states that favor Hillary? And by the way, Hillary never campaigned in Nebraska. She
didn't step foot in the state. Were you as outraged by that? I don't remember seeing a post,
which pointed out Hillary's evil behavior toward the good people of Nebraska when she didn't
campaign there and Obama did.

And since you asked the question, "What if Hillary treated Iowa like Kentucky and West Virginia?" I have
to address something.

Hillary Clinton has treated the state of Iowa and the Democrats in Iowa--like shit.

The day she lost the Iowa caucuses, she tore off on a lie-based distortion campaign, falsely suggesting
that the caucuses were unfair and do not represent the will of the people.

Because she lost, she threw our entire Iowa caucus process under the bus. She disrespected Iowa, our
100-year old process (which no one ever complained about, until HER--not even her husband when he
campaigned in Iowa!) and tore down all of the Democrats who worked hard to make the caucuses a grand
success.

Furthermore, in Hillary's latest, "I'm the one winning!! I've got more popular votes" meme---do you
know how she factors that she's winning the popular vote? SHE LEAVES OUT THE VOTES CAST IN THE
CAUCUS STATES. THAT INCLUDES IOWA.

Iowans don't count. We are shit to her. Just take us out of the primary equation and call yourself
the winner, Hillary! Iowans, or anyone else in other caucus states--you're not important in
Hillary world.

So my answer to your question is---Barack Obama would never have the unmitigated gall to participate
in a primary contest, lose and then leave the state screeching and mocking the process--and behave like
a sore loser. Barack Obama has never disrespected the people of West Virginia or Kentucky--by tearing down
their process or suggesting that their way of voting isn't fair.

Hillary Clinton has no class. She's out for herself, and anyone or any process that doesn't please
her is ripped to shreds and maligned--by her bloggers who are ordered to spew her false talking points
and venom.

Barack Obama would never--and has never engaged in that type of behavior. Only Hillary. Biden, Richardson,
and Kucinich lost the Iowa caucuses. Did you see them tearing the entire state down because of it?

Obama has had nothing but wonderful things to say about the people of West Virginia and Kentucky. Obama
has never done to the people of Kentucky and West Virginia---what Hillary did to the people in the
state of Iowa, and to the rest of the caucus states.

You should be ashamed to even ask that question!

[book_worm]

26. isn't it funny how when Obama wins a small, red state it shouldn't matter but if she wins

small red states like WVA and KY then it is supposed to demonstrate how weak Obama is. If she had won Iowa, caucuses would have mattered. If it had been Obama who kept his name on the ballot in Michigan and she didn't, does anybody honestly think that she would be arguing that Michigan should count? The goal posts in the Hillary campaign have kept moving every time one argument evaporated a new one was concocted. In the end she ran an amazingly bad campaign. If she had not written off 10-12 states as "not counting" there is every chance that she could be leading, but she made that decison based on her assumption that she was on her way to a coronation and would have this wrapped up on Super Tuesday.

[PM7nj]

27. Kentucky is a "key swing state" now?

lol :rofl:

[anonymous171]

28. SAME WITH PUERTO RICO!

:rofl:

[Hippo_Tron]

47. You forgot Democrats Abroad!

Oh wait, Obama won them, so clearly they don't count.

:rofl:

[populistdriven]

30. Who is Hillary?

Is she that former presidential candidate? Bless her heart.

Remember how competitive of a race it was?

[CreekDog]

31. she treated almost all the caucus states like that

if you have a problem with it, Obama's your guy, he actually campaigned in more states than she did.

[CakeGrrl]

32. NEWSFLASH! The race for Electoral Votes begins with the GE. You're welcome.

n/t

[KSinTX]

44. Now, now - that was a very serious and sincere OP

:sarcasm:

[graycem]

34. Psshh...

they all usually skip over most states and only concentrate on Iowa, NH, and the others they consider "swing" states. Hillary said herself this would be over by Feb. 5th, so she would've skipped them too. She doesn't get extra points for being so considerate of these states when the truth is they wouldn't have rated even 1 event from her if this hadn't dragged out this long.

This isn't a general election. It is the Democratic primary.

[PseudoIntellect]

35. Hillary was trying to win in categories that actually exist.

Pledged delegates. Superdelegates. Total delegates. States won. Primaries won. Caucuses won. Red states won. Blue states won. Fundraising and donors. She lost every single category.

Hillary was not trying to win the electoral vote race, and neither was Obama. But now Hillary happens to be winning in this nonexistent category and now brags about it as an electability argument.

[RBInMaine]

36. Obama HAS campaigned in WV and KY, has offices, has staff, has canvassers, and

he HAS vistited both states several times. However, knowing that right now demographics favor Hillary, in the end game, at the moment, he focusing on other states. Don't worry, he'll be back, and he'll continue to make a strong case to working class whites as the guy who as a kid was once on food stamps, paid for school with loans, worked as a community organizer and advocate for laid off steel workers, and has been a strong legislative advocate for working Americans. He has plenty of union support. Elitist?? Don't think so. He's a christian, flag-pin-wearing (sometimes), extremely patriotic American who will be a fighter for the white working class and all Americans. And a vote for John McBUSH is a vote to fill more body bags, little more.

[RBInMaine]

37. Obama HAS campaigned in WV and KY, has offices, has staff, has canvassers, and

he HAS vistited both states several times. However, knowing that right now demographics favor Hillary, in the end game, at the moment, he focusing on other states. Don't worry, he'll be back, and he'll continue to make a strong case to working class whites as the guy who as a kid was once on food stamps, paid for school with loans, worked as a community organizer and advocate for laid off steel workers, and has been a strong legislative advocate for working Americans. He has plenty of union support. Elitist?? Don't think so. He's a christian, flag-pin-wearing (sometimes), extremely patriotic American who will be a fighter for the white working class and all Americans. And a vote for John McBUSH is a vote to fill more body bags, little more.

[RBInMaine]

38. Obama HAS campaigned in WV and KY, has offices, has staff, has canvassers, and

he HAS vistited both states several times. However, knowing that right now demographics favor Hillary, in the end game, at the moment, he focusing on other states. Don't worry, he'll be back, and he'll continue to make a strong case to working class whites as the guy who as a kid was once on food stamps, paid for school with loans, worked as a community organizer and advocate for laid off steel workers, and has been a strong legislative advocate for working Americans. He has plenty of union support. Elitist?? Don't think so. He's a christian, flag-pin-wearing (sometimes), extremely patriotic American who will be a fighter for the white working class and all Americans. And a vote for John McBUSH is a vote to fill more body bags, little more.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

41. She'd have come in 4th place instead of 3rd?

:shrug:

[Peacetrain]

42. Maybe it is not what it seems

I have been thinking about this for a while..Senator Obama not engaging West Virginia and Kentucky.. Because he has engaged in other battle ground states, and when he puts the time in his numbers come up, no matter how far ahead his opponent is.. Could it possibly be a gracious bowing out of those two states and letting Senator Clinton who has worked so hard, go out with large victories, .. Senator Obama has never struck me as one who had to beat an opponent into the ground to feel victory.. just a thought..

[RBInMaine]

43. If anything HILLARY is the "elitist" !! i.e. Yale, Wellsley, former RePuke, $109 million, AND

takes lobbyist $, PAC $, supported NAFTA, has relied MUCH more heavily on fat cat donors in this campaign, etc. etc. etc.

[Thrill]

50. We have to win Iowa. KY and WV are going to be red no matter what