I'll admit that I'm a sexist.

[last1standing]

No snark or joke here. I am definitely a sexist.

I come from a small town with traditional values and I was raised to treat women differently. To this day, I open doors for women whether I know them or not. I wait for women to enter or leave an elevator before I do. I call the women I know "dear" by habit. I ALWAYS pay for the meal when dining out with a woman.

That same small town made me prejudiced as well. My family and neighbors were racists and some traits die hard. When I meet a new person, the first thing that registers in my mind is their race. I go out of my way to be nice and consider my words more carefully. I probably defer to African Americans more than I would a white man

On the other hand, I respect women and African Americans as equals who not only deserve all the rights and opportunities I receive as a white man, but require them for the benefit of ALL people. I have no problems taking orders from a woman or a black person and often do. They are my customers, my friends and my family. They're the people who have been there for me when my world was crashing down and the people I've helped hold above water.

The point is we all have our own sexist and prejudiced reactions regardless of our own sex or race. We grew up having them instilled into our psyches and they will always hold some small place in our words and deeds. That doesn't mean we're bad people or that we can't make rational decisions because of it.

I'm a progressive and that means I support policies that make life better for ALL of us, not just me. the vast majority of DUers support the same thing.

I'm proud to have the chance to vote for an African American or a woman. To me that means that one day perhaps a new generation will grow up in small towns and not be subjected to the prejudices and hatreds that have scarred me and most others. That time might not even be as far away as I once thought it would be.

I'm telling my life story because I posted a thread earlier asking if we could all come together for just a moment to celebrate this but it didn't seem many were ready. So if we can't celebrate, can we at least look into ourselves and admit that there is more good than bad coming from all of this?

Win or lose, this is the start of a new day.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. Real policies that affect the nation are in order like the economy

[BlooInBloo]

2. Heh. We go into life with the upbringing we had, and not the upbringing we wish we had, eh?

Nothing to do but muddle forward as best we can, keeping a sharp lookout for improvement opportunities.

:)

[last1standing]

7. And I do muddle through.

I do my best and try to learn as I go along. Occasionally I even succeed.

[BlooInBloo]

9. We call those "good days".

[panader0]

3. Great post. You don't seem scarred to me.

Keep your mind on the goal. The world is changing, even faster than we know.

[last1standing]

11. Thank you.

It is a changing world, thankfully. I hope to see a lot more before I kick off. :hi:

[Jed Dilligan]

4. Actually, traditional etiquette dictates that the man

should enter the elevator first and leave last. Same rationale as walking on the street side on sidewalks: the man is supposed to assume the risks.

[last1standing]

5. I was taught "Ladies first".

And since my town didn't have any elevators I guess I just went with what I knew when I started riding them. :)

[Jed Dilligan]

10. When etiquette was more prevalent,

the cables on elevators were, shall we say, snappier. So it was a matter of testing the waters--a first through the breach issue, not a ladies first issue.

[panader0]

14. Elevators or women?

Women first is a fine principle, but not one I've always been able to uphold. (Damn)

[last1standing]

18. For the sake of this discussion I'll say elevators.

Thanks for the laugh, though. :hi:

[panader0]

6. "Traditional etiquette" is "sexist"

I too was raised to open doors, stand at the table when a woman came in, change the tires of a damsel in distress. Do women really want us men to stop that stuff?

[Jed Dilligan]

8. I'm not making a value judgment one way or the other

It depends on how the individual woman wants to be treated for me.

[BlooInBloo]

12. Much as men differ on the issue, so too do women. Keeps things interesting, I think.

:P

[Berry Cool]

19. For me, it's a matter of practicality.

If I come to the door first and my hands are free, I'll hold it open for anyone, woman or man. I certainly don't expect a man with full arms to go ahead of me and hold it open for me.

I don't really get the "stand at the table" thing, either. It's like a relic of a past time.

As for changing tires..."damsel in distress"? Kind of quaint, don't you think? Isn't it just a woman who could use help? Some women can change their own tires; if you come across one who can't, it's certainly the kind thing to do to help her. But if she should refuse your offer, and you have a phone and she doesn't, do call someone to help her. Try not to be offended; women today have learned that sometimes it's better not to trust male strangers. Nothing personal.

The thing I don't get is always paying for a woman's meal. If it's not a date you asked her out on, why? I mean, it's nice of you, but why? If she has money of her own, why feel obligated to pay for her meal--unless you feel somehow disconcerted and "out of control of the situation" if you don't?

It seems to me that in many cases where men insist on paying for something for a woman, such as a meal if they go out as colleagues or friends, it's because it somehow gives them a feeling of being in control of the situation. I don't mean in a sexual sense, just a general sense. It doesn't even have to be a date. It's like, somehow, they feel they are in control of things if they pay, and if they don't pay, they feel as if they have somehow surrendered some sort of control, and they feel really uncomfortable. I wish I knew why that is.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. Opening doors for women doesn't make you a sexist.

The only time I find the act annoying and sexist is when the man makes a big, flourish-y gesture of it, accompanied with some smartass comment like, "Some women don't appreciate it when a man is a gentleman! You're not one of those women are you?!" :eyes: Times like that make me think I druther do it myself because it ain't worth the irritation of being expected to coddle some puny man's massive ego. Other than that, I find it quite charming.

[last1standing]

16. I call it sexist because it entails treating women differently than I would a man.

In theory we should all be treated equally but I just can't bring myself to do that. To not hold the door for a woman would make me feel like a bastard. It probably shouldn't but it would.

Some habits die hard.

[Raine1967]

15. And you are a sexist, how?

I am so damn angry that we somehow have gone back to the the '60's version of feminism. That wersion NEEDED people like Gloria, Today, we don't.


I suppose I will get tossed under the bus...

You are so far from being a sexist it isn't even funny. I am a feminist. You paying for my dinner does not a sexist make you.
For the love of god, can we get beyond this shite?

If we are truly feminists, we need to stop rebuking random acts of kindness. SOMETIMES, a person holding a door, or paying for dinner is just that, a nice thing.

IF you find yourself in that situation, offer to pay for dinner yourself.

Most people who are concerned with such things will gladly be happy for you to pay.

Sexism is not about who holds a door or pays for dinner.

O...
K&R :)

[last1standing]

17. I don't consider myself a malicious sexist.

But I do use gender as a factor in how I deal with others just as I do race. I'm not saying its so horrible that I should be put down, but I think the very things I do are used as excuses for those with less good intentions.

[Berry Cool]

20. Not tossing you under the bus, but I do think it's sexist for men to do favors for women

based strictly on their sex, that they would not do for another man.

Men don't feel obligated to always pay for each other's dinners (if they did, imagine the fights that would ensue--"I'm paying!" "No, I'M PAYING!"). They don't feel obligated to open doors for men behind them or, apparently, help them change a flat even if they have no clue how to do it themselves. A guy with a flat tire is just a guy with a flat tire; a woman with a flat tire is a "damsel in distress" who needs "rescue" from a "knight in shining armor," I guess.

Come on, these are not "random acts of kindness." They are MEN doing SPECIFIC acts of kindness to WOMEN because of the man-woman dynamic.

Oh, and I am not saying the OP is some horrible person because of it. I'm just asking him to go that little extra mile and realize how deeply this stuff is bred into his bones and say yes, I know that for that very reason it must be very hard to divest yourself of, but if you'd think just that little teeny bit...

I guess my feeling is this. I have yet to meet the kind of man who wanted to open doors, fix flats and pay for all meals for women who didn't expect that just as he naturally did these things for women, women would naturally want to do other things for him in return. Such as, if the woman was his wife, she would do the cooking, cleaning and raising the kids, because of course she would want to and of course she would do it better. Whether it was true or not.

[last1standing]

22. You're right and I do realize that this has been bred into my bones.

As I stated in my OP, it is how I was raised and while I know it's sexist I still do it.

However, you have met a guy who does all this but doesn't expect the woman to be the homemaker and all. I am married and do most of the cooking and cleaning in our household.

So you have met one now. :hi:

[texastoast]

21. You think we don't need Gloria's wisdom?

In America?

Check out the ratios in comparable work for comparable pay.

Who does the most unpaid work--STILL?

Are the sentences for raping women and children and/or murdering them about right?

Read the studies on who gets the most food in impoverished areas in this country.

As long as big sheeshees are valued over brains and heart, we still got a long want to go, baby.

We are so not there yet.