Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

An argument to Hillary's supporters about the importance of voting for Obama

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 12:59 PM
Original message
An argument to Hillary's supporters about the importance of voting for Obama
Edited on Tue May-20-08 01:44 PM by tblue37
I posted this as a response in another GD:primaries thread, but I feel so strongly about the argument I am making here that I decided to give it its own thread. I especially want to address Hillary voters who are considering simply not voting for Obama in the GE if he is the nominee--or even voting for MccCain!
For years we here at DU have complained about how the corporatist Republicans have corrupted our electoral process and how easily people are manipulated into voting against their own self-interest.

All a politician or a party has to do is press their buttons and they respond like Pavlov's dogs, voting against the candidate whose positions most closely resemble their own, voting against their own economic and social needs just because they are emotionally attached to a given politician's image or to certain causes (abortion, gays, guns) that are not directly relevant to how the winning candidate will govern the country.

For example, just because GWB's handlers have convinced voters that he is a Christian, they vote for him or against his opponent because they think he is a "godly man." Or they vote against Kerry because he "looks French."

It really disappoints me to see how easily Democrats, who really should know better, are manipulated into voting against our nominee in the fall or simply staying out of the process altogether, when every vote is needed. We need a true tsunami to overcome the inevitable attempts to steal the election by voter suppression tactics and electronic hacking. We will lose a lot of votes by way of such theft, so we need a lot more to balance out those lost votes.

I am quite certain that we won by much larger margins in 2006 than showed up in the final results. I am equally sure that we won more seats in both houses of Congress than we ended up with. We also know that we won in 2000 and 2004, but close elections are just too easy to steal.

So we need Hillary’s loyal voters to vote for Obama in the fall, to protect us against such inevitable attempts to steal the election again. If they stay home, or if they vote for McCain, then we could lose the election, despite the many thousands of people at Obama’s rallies (don’t forget the huge crowds Kerry and Edwards drew in 2004), and despite the millions of new voters Obama will bring to the polls.

Any dispassionate analysis would reveal to Hillary’s voters that Obama is light years better than McCain, and that McCain would appoint 2 to 3 new SC Justices, locking in the radical right wing majority for an entire generation, perhaps even longer, and undoing the gains we have made since FDR. Also, the already far advanced corruption in the DOJ and all through the federal bench would become worse under a McCain administration, whereas a Dem administration could begin the process of straightening it out.

Do we really want more partisan witchhunts like the one that imprisoned Don Siegelman? Do we want the government to use those KB&R-built concentration camps to round up dissenters like us?

We can’t afford emotional, irrational votes (or non-votes). Our lives and our children’s and grandchildren’s lives will be dramatically affected for the worse if McCain wins this election. That’s an incontrovertible fact, and I believe that even the most committed Hillary voter must realize this. If they did not realize how much worse the Republicans are for our country, they would not want to vote for Hillary in the first place!

So how can anyone, anyone, who is aware of how much damage Republicans have done to the quality of life in this country, to the world, to everything, even consider doing anything that could risk letting the Republicans remain in power? We need a Dem president, no matter who it is, and a large Dem majority in the House and Senate, not just to prevent further damage, but also to begin undoing some of the damage this criminal administration has already done. A large Dem majority, led by a Dem president, can begin to untangle the pervasive corruption in the DOJ, and also undertake real investigations aimed at bringing some of the worst criminals of these past 8 years to justice.

Come on, people—how can you not want that, no matter who the Dem nominee is? I don’t see any way for Hillary to take this nomination, but if she somehow did, I would not only vote for her, I would work my ass off to try to help her win! We all need to work for whoever the nominee is. It’s that simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. You're right
that is annoyingly long.

:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I changed the title to avoid scaring people away.
Edited on Tue May-20-08 01:17 PM by tblue37
We here at DU are supposed to be the ones who think a bit beyond the sound bites that pass for political discussion in our country.

I am hoping that people who spend hours reading and responding to political discussions online won't be scared away by being asked to read a few hundred words at one sitting.

Maybe I am wrong, though.

If so, I am also disappointed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Heh - prolly a good idea. I read it, but I'm not really your target audience. We'll see what happens
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. I think most of the Clinton supporters have been run off -
Just an observation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. We don't want to run them off...
we need to win them over. Without groveling, of course. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Oh, I hope not!
We are on the same side, even if emotions are too high right now for some people (on both sides) to recognize that truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow! Within about 7 seconds, this thread dropped all the way
to the middle of the page, with no reads at all. Maybe the title of the thread is scaring people away. hope not. Anyway, I am kicking this in hopes people will read it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent post!
Long, yes, but in no way annoying. Well said!

:kick: & REC'D!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Thanks, Nance. Being validated by one of my favorite DU
posters means a lot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. K & R.
Keep up the good work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hello? Hillary supporters? Hello?
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. They don't want to deal with reason.
They are blinded by loyalty to Hillary at all costs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I know, but we really need to wake them up.
It's morning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yes, I would certainly like to hear their response to my argument.
Since I am directly addressing Hillary supporters, and even say so in my revised title, I keep hoping that some of them will respond.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. I agree totally...
Edited on Tue May-20-08 01:20 PM by jesus_of_suburbia
I'm most worried about:

1) Supreme Court Justices

2) Wealth Disparity (I'm talking about the top 2% vs the rest of us)

3) Foreign Policy

4) Health Care



Hillary supporters can't afford to not vote Dem.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Kick that!
:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
griffi94 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. i would ask
Edited on Tue May-20-08 01:32 PM by griffi94
why the gop was able to so thoroughly dismantle the constitution, shit all over the middle class, and put dissent on the same level with treason. the answer is because the democrats went along with it.
i'm not advocating not voting or voting 3rd party, merely pointing out that so far it hasn't seemed to matter which party was at the wheel. according to many posters at this very site, the clintons are as bad as the bushs. hillary voted for the iwr. of course so did a majority of congressional democrats, and obama has voted to continue funding.

the tone in gdp has been nasty to the extreme. i'm not blaming all of that on any particular set of supporters both sides have thrown their share of bombs, but since obama is going to be the nominee his supporters here are starting to notice that he'll need hillarys supporters to win in november.
i would be willing to bet that a majority of her supporters will vote obama in november. of course some of them won't, maybe they wouldn't have voted for obama anyway, but they feel pretty slighted and to be fair they have been piled on.

i'm not a big fan of the "we won so fuck you" school of politics. i didn't like it when the neocons did it, and i don't like it any better when the democrats do it.
it seems like some of obamas supporters here are almost daring the hillary supporters to not vote obama. i don't personally understand that logic, but should it continue, and should obama lose in november can you really say that you'd be surprised.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. They will. Anger is common when your candidate drops. They'll come aboard.
Just give them time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
20. you make some good points but
I don't think most Clinton supporters will read this because they are tired of people suggesting to them what they should do. Hopefully most will open their eyes and wake up AFTER Clinton stops filling their heads with this "we can still win" stuff. If they don't, they probably are just being stubborn and won't come around anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC