Help our nominee let's bring a civil case in October!

[aasleka]

John McCain was born in Panama, while there is dispute on what makes a "Natural Born Citizen" there is no dispute that the Panamanian military installation is not considered US soil.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

Also prior to 1941 there was no guidance of the issue leaving it open to interpretation. Since we have original intent "constitutionalists" on our Supreme Court they should view the framers intents of "Natural Born" as being born within the continental US at the very least.

I wonder what Obama would say, he is after all studied in Constitutional law and he did win his first campaign by having the others disqualified.... I would support a case brought by him or the general public say..... late October to disqualify McCain.

[crankychatter]

1. Overseas Military or State Dept Foreign Svc families are considered to be US born

this is a no go

[aasleka]

3. Check the link, current US state department policy does NOT consider

military, consulates or other such installations US soil, the only debate that can be had is the definition of "natural born"

[scheming daemons]

2. Dead issue.... already resolved with Barry Goldwater, who was

born in Arizona before it was a state.

[aasleka]

4. It was a territory but there was clarification in 41' on the law. Being inside the continental US

[DearAbby]

7. Wouldnt that also disqualify Obama being born outside the

continental US..Tells Hawaiians and The citizens of Alaska, they can never be President...sucks huh.

:eyes:

[rug]

12. Hawaii was a state when he was born.

[DearAbby]

17. But not in the Continental US as the Poster stated...n/t

[Zynx]

30. There was no such thing other than the Continental U.S. in 1941.

[DearAbby]

36. true

[DearAbby]

5. If McCain is ruled not eligible to be a candidate....who will it be?

I prefer to have to run against McCain...not Romney. Or whoever else they place in his stead. October is kind a late to create a whole new campaign against a new candidate.

[crankychatter]

8. good point... I'd be happy to be wrong but... yeah... who next? - nt

.

[Texas Hill Country]

19. Obama co-sponsored legislation that would allow McCain to run. I think Hillary signed on too btw.

[reflection]

6. This is the sort of thing

that would drive normally complacent voters to McCain in droves. Respectfully, I think this is a very bad idea.

[DearAbby]

9. I agree

[rucky]

11. double agree. n/t

[Adelante]

20. Agree nt

[NYCGirl]

10. Obama co-sponsored a bill with Claire McCaskill to make sure McCain is

qualified to run.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/02/29/mccain_panama/

On Thursday, the New York Times took up the question of whether John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, is even eligible for the presidency. The Constitution specifies that "no person except a natural born citizen ... shall be eligible to the office of President." This has been popularly (but never legally) interpreted as meaning that only those persons actually born in the United States were eligible. But McCain wasn't born here; he was born in the Panama Canal Zone, as his father, serving in the Navy, was stationed there at the time.

There might not have ever been much of a controversy over the issue, but one senator has taken steps to ensure that McCain will indeed be eligible. And no, the senator in question isn't a Republican trying to ensure the health of the party -- it's Missouri Democrat Claire McCaskill, a prominent backer of Barack Obama. McCaskill has introduced the "Children of Military Families Natural Born Citizen Act" into the Senate. McCaskill's legislation, which she wrote by hand on a notepad after reading the Times article, specifies a new part of the definition of "natural born citizen," which, if the bill passes, would include "any person born to any citizen of the United States while serving in the active or reserve components of the United States Armed Forces."

Obama himself is now cosponsoring the bill.

[aasleka]

13. Damn, I respect that dude!

[DangerDave921]

14. Old news

Already been brought up and shot down as not being legally viable. Sorry. Good thought though.

[whistler162]

15. McCain is full qualified to run(mental is another story)...

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html

According to US code section 1401.

[suston96]

16. I hope there is a "lawsuit" so that another court can repeat what has been decided in the past..

....George Romney (born in Mexico of American parents} ran for President in 1968 or 1972. McCain was born of American parents in the Panama Canal Zone - an American possession.

Citizenship also depends on American parentage. I am such a citizen and so is one of my children. My citizenship comes from my father and my daughter's comes from me, even though we were both born overseas.

[aasleka]

26. Yeah as was said citizenship is granted by bloodline or birthright

although if your parents have never lived in the US even though they have citizenship you would not be a citizen.
Also women who are citizens who are not married and the father is not a citizen have children outside the US the children would not be citizens (never enforced)

men who have citizenship that father children over seas with non citizen women must prove paternity before the child is naturalised.

There are different types of citizenship, a naturalised citizen cannot become President, only a "natural born" person can. The definition is up for interpretation.

As I have also said, despite misconception military installations or consulates are NOT US soil.

[Vinca]

18. That would go over really well. The reason McCain happened to be

born there was that his father was serving in the military. Do Democrats want to tell soldiers whose kids are born on foreign soil their children aren't citizens? I don't think so.

[aasleka]

23. Umm that is the reason they fight, to protect the constitution

Laws are laws but nm it is a moot point since the new bill.

[cali]

21. for the love of reason.

this is as stupid an idea as attacking McCain on his war record. You're clearly a disruptor with your snide comments about Obama. McCain is an American citizen, born to two American citizens.

[aasleka]

32. yeah, questions and debate are "disrupting"

WTF where'd my flag pin go!

[cali]

33. you're peddling bullshit with a vengeance

and you're clueless.

[aasleka]

37. Please point out which of my links you disagree with, what parts of my arguement

you think is clueless. I have made an interpretation based upon current state department policy and an ongoing debate of "natural born".

I advocate debate and have actually already conceded the point but will continue to point out the difference in citizenship that some don't seem to understand. You won't bluff me by puffing out your chest feigning indignation and crying about soldiers and duty. The military is made up of big girls and boys they understand the difference between having freedom to say what you like, having the freedom to be an asshole and be laughed at and shutting someone up or out.

If you disagree, point out my error, you may just make me rethink my position much like earlier posters who pointed out the law being proposed.

[cali]

40. Here's what's clueless: Obama is supporting legislation to

remove any question about the issue. In other words, what you're suggesting goes directly against your candidate's express desires. I could give a shit about soldiers and duty- as people familiar with me can attest. This has zip to do with that, but hey, you'have the freedom to jump hastily to erroneous conclusions like an asshole.

Hate to break this to you, champ, but I'm not patriotic. I'm not a fan of romanticizing military service. I am however, rooted in the real world, and I know a moronic idea when it marches in the room.

[aasleka]

42. heh, clueless see post #13

[kwenu]

22. McCain is a citizen under the INA Act 303. Let it go please.

INA: ACT 303 - PERSONS BORN IN THE CANAL ZONE OR REPUBLIC OF PANAMA ON OR AFTER FEBRUARY 26, 1904


Sec. 303. <8 U.S.C. 1403>

(a) Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.


(b) Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.


The weak debate is over "natural" born. However, the intent of this act is clear. No court will dispute it.

[aasleka]

27. exactly my point, the "strict" constitutionalists that populate the SCoTUS

might have an interesting take on the interpretation of the founding fathers.

[Texas Hill Country]

28. depends on the interpretation of the law... if your parents are american citizens, no matter where

you are born, you are automatically and american citizen.

I was born in England, on English soil, to American parents, so I was born an American citizen, but under the standard interpretation of the term "natural born" I cannot become a US citizen.

the INA Act 303, does not stipulate that the Canal Zone is US soil. It merely says that if one or both of your parents are American and you are born here, then you are American.


Hillary, Barack and a host of others have sponsored legislation that would clarify INA 303 to allow McCain to run... not sure if it has passed already or not... but it will be.

[aasleka]

31. /sigh, no, you would be a naturalised citizen

[Texas Hill Country]

38. no, i am not a naturalized citizen.

[kwenu]

34. George Washington was born in Virginia Colony, British America, NOT the U.S.A.

In fact there are eight U.S. presidents that technically weren't born on "U.S. soil" but were understood to be citizens by birth as opposed to the naturalization of a foreign citizen.

[Texas Hill Country]

39. that was the same exemption McGovern got with Arizona. you have to be born in a state of what has

become a state... you could not be president and have been born in the UK for example.

[aasleka]

41. natural born or citizen as of the date of signing

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution"

[kwenu]

43. I give up. Proceed with the suit against McCain.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

24. Um, no.

We can win without the need for questionable lawsuits that would almost certainly be thrown out of court on the first blush.

Us Democrats can win the democratic (big D and little d) way.

[2rth2pwr]

25. Great idea, first we soften him up by attacking him because he looks funny when he tries to

raise his arms, torture can have weird effects like that, then we go after him for being born while his father was serving.

Brilliant.

[aasleka]

29. yeah personally serving in the military does not give you "special" rights

You swear to defend the constitution, if a bill is passed changing the interpretation that's great but to ignore the law because someone was a POW belittles the reason we serve

[barack the house]

35. Leave it to Ron Paul folk. It would more scupper our chances if we did it. u

[WeDidIt]

44. Barack Obama has Already Sponsored LEgislation

that would specifically define being born within the confines of a United States Military Base as being a "natural born citizen".

LEt it rest, Obama doesn't want to win this way.