Why are some people so intensely loyal to Hillary?

[George_Bonanza]

I don't understand why some women are so intensely loyal to Hillary Clinton. I doubt that they'd be this emotionally invested if Barbara Boxer was about to lose her Senate seat, or Janet Napolitano was about to lose her gubernatorial race. Are they not feminist trailblazers as well, perhaps more so since they did not have to rely on their husbands' last name to achieve political prominence? It's not as if Hillary's done anything in particular for the feminist cause, other than trying to link her own personal success with the progress of feminism. But it's Hillary Clinton, the wife of one of the best politicians in modern American history, who gets the loyalist brigades. Why?

Here are some of my speculations:

1) Her infamous and tumultuous relationship to Bill Clinton makes her more identifiable to some women. They place themselves in Hillary's shoes, and replace Bill Clinton with every sleazebag boss, boyfriend, co-worker, or regrettable one-night-stand and feel an instant bond forged out of a supposed common experience.

2) Her lack of distinguishing talents makes her the champion of the "grinder". Hillary is the quintessential grade-grubber who seems to overachieve beyond her natural means. She's not a good speaker, lacks grace and charm, does not embody any unique message or platform (is she too liberal? is she a warmonger? is she a working-class hero?), and is intensely divisive. This makes her endearing to all the people who had to fight for everything they got, while they watched the supposed "naturals" coast through life with minimal effort.

3) She has been vilified by the male-dominated media since day one, which automatically makes her the martyr of the feminist cause. It's not a secret that the media has never liked Hillary Clinton, for one reason or another, and just like in New Hampshire, women didn't come to Hillary's aid until they felt that the boys were ganging up on her. And ever since she came into the national spotlight and the media boys started to bully her, some women have been standing up for her since. Their bond has only grown stronger with time as a perpetual reaction to the incessant Hillary-bashing that goes on in our society.

[NJmaverick]

1. The ironic part is Hillary has shown no inclination to reciprocate that loyalty

[rock]

18. I disagree

Loyalty is a two way street. I'm sure the Obama supporters feel the same way (that is, that he's been loyal to them).

[FrenchieCat]

2. She was supposed to win ever since 2004......

So its more of a level of shock that it ain't gonna happen.

Hillary has also been stoking the fire, as she does so well.....being a victim again as she has been so many times in her life.

[mudesi]

3. Ignorance. Stupidity. Delusion. Take your pick. (nm)

[LostinVA]

4. Because she's the best candidate

"Speculation #1" is horribly sexist, by the way.

[Kittycat]

10. If she was the best candidate, then she would be winning.

But she's not.

[LostinVA]

13. She's won the important states and remember, the GE is not a caucus

Plus, the media has been horribly against her.

I don't think Obama has a chance against McCain. Hell, there's a good chance NEW JERSEY will go red with him as the nomination.

[AllentownJake]

14. Ahh

No. Obama was actually polling better in NJ than her a month ago.

[LostinVA]

15. I'd be interested in knowing where they got that polling sample

I actually live here, have a lot of family here, and I just don't see that, at all.

[rinsd]

20. Here's the poll, both beat the snot out of McCain.

http://www.monmouth.edu/polling/admin/polls/MUP16_1.pdf

[AllentownJake]

23. I live in PA

and thought Obama was going to win it. Sometimes your bias or the people you are with cloud judgement.

[musiclawyer]

19. Point # I is not sexist

The S word gets thrown around here gratuitously and it needs to stop. The poster was simply putting forth a hypothesis

Common definition of Sexist:

1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
2. Attitudes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender

The poster was not expressing an attitude that promotes stereotyping of a social role. It's not like he said all women are victims. What he wrote is not different than me writing that lots guys probably identify with or root for golfer John Daly-- regular guy, beset by a lot of inner demons, who soldiers on. That's does not mean I'm saying all guys are alcoholics.

Geez

And HRC is not the best candidate. Maybe in your head. But objectively speaking, looking at what the primary voters have said thus far, she's not. Otherwise she'd be winning. Most of them have now spoken. Period.

[dugggy]

5. Because Hillary is THE smartest woman in congress and in

Washington politics.

[Carolina]

27. oh really, is that why she trusted Bush and supported

IWR, the Patriot Act, the bankruptcy bill.

Spare me. She's a calculating witch who cares only about her political career and power!

[DUgosh]

6. No Sherlock ... it's way more simple than that.

The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

[Bullet1987]

7. A LOT of her supporters believed it was her turn...many more than I thought actually

I believe it's a combination of things. This long primary season has created factions within the Party. Obama's race I'm sure is playing a role, etc.

[MonkeyFunk]

8. Same reason

you guys are loyal to Obama - we think our candidate is the best one.

[Straight Shooter]

9. Let me respond to your speculations:

1. Wrong
2. Wrong
3. Wrong

I am "loyal," since that is the word you choose to employ, because I believe she is more competent when it comes right down to hands-on work. Don't give me the canard about running a campaign. george w. bush proved that you can run a campaign well and then run the country like an incompetent dipwad.

[Ashy Larry]

11. I'm sure people have different reasons

There are some people who really want to have a Democratic president but are not comfortable voting for a black person. They need Hillary to be the nominee so they don't have to make the tough decision between four more years of terrible government or voting for the black guy.

I really think its mostly #3 though. In my experience, the people who are fiercely loyal to Hillary are the type of people who complain about how busy they are after having five or six kids. Its a martyrdom thing and Hillary plays those emotions like a fiddle.

[griffi94]

12. i think your #3 point is spot on

she has been demonized by the rw for years, she's been the butt of stupid ass jokes and mean spiteful comments. in spite of all that she's won 2 terms in the senate and is one of the most accomplished women in america.
now the haters are from her own party, and from the posts i've read regarding hillary they don't just hate her politically. they hate her the way the right wingers do, so they've come up with excuses for why it's ok to hate her. you know...she's a racist, she's ambitious, she's an egomaniac.

i'm not a huge fan of hillarys but i don't hate her, and i certainly respect what she and bill accomplished. so it's a bit unnerving to watch democrats pile on with the talking points that i used to hear when i visited my parents (mom & dad are fox news junkies)

the main effect this years very hotly contested primary has had on me, is to make me question whether or not i want to remain in a party that has invested so much in hating another democrat. not voting for her and supporting obama are one thing but the extreme that some here have gleefully gone is imo way over the line.

my loyalty is not to hillary but rather to myself. i hated the shoutdown screamfest of the neocons, and now i see the same tactics here. the attitude seems to be "we won so you'll eat whatever shit we tell you to eat, and then you'll tell us you like it"
i don't doubt that many of obamas supporters really would like the rift to heal, but enough of his supporters are just a bit too enthusiastic about the prospect of getting even. imo getting even with clinton is what gave us bush.

[Auntie Bush]

34. Bravo! n/t

[apocalypsehow]

16. Speculation #4:

They actually condescend to women by holding Senator Clinton to a different standard. Think about it, if the roles were reversed Senator Obama would already be out of the race at the insistence of about everyone. But everybody is too scared of being labeled a "sexist" to forthrightly tell HRC several things she needs to hear & heed: the nomination is not something you're entitled to; there is no mathematical way you can win the nomination; you got beat fair and square; you are hurting your Party; it is time to suspend your campaign.

[Thrill]

17. They thought their candidate was inevitable

its tough

[izzie]

21. I think your No. 1 hit it right on.

I know women who think like that and I am a women for Obama but I still see that type of women. Some women would just like to see a women in the WH also. I would but I do not want her their on the coat tails of her husband. Some women have got to the top on their own. Besides that I do not think a lot of these people are voting for Hillery but against the 'black man'. Heck they will vote for McCain in Nov. any how. They will think once more about a women in the WH for sure. These type people go back to what they knew and do not go for anything very new.

[stewie502]

22. reminds me of my little sister..

she wants Hillary to win and when my dad asked her why she said "because she is a girl" I mean what do you expect she is 7 but the people who are going to vote for Hillary are old enough to vote(obviously) and I bet if you asked the feminist type people why they are voting for her they would probably say the same thing as my little 7 year old sister, I just hope that she won't vote based on that when she is older.

[DemGa]

24. I just think Hillary's the best we have running for the job

and that Barack Obama is most certainly not. It's true the continuation of the right-wing attacks found in the Obama campaign have been offensive - and there is of course reaction to this slanderous assault.

But these things aside, I believe Hillary Clinton to be superbly qualified in character and experience - A tragic loss for our country should she not succeed.

I'm a male btw. I know women who feel the same.

[etherealtruth]

25. Why is anyone intensely loyal to any politician?

They represent their interests and values ...?

Despite her portrayal as being the love child of Mussolini and Stalin (with a little Pol Pot thrown in for good measure), her actual voting record doesn't reflect that.

My heart and loyalty lies with John Edwards ... but ANY democrat that receives the nomination will receive my heart, loyalty, $$ and time.

[Bread and Circus]

She's blonde and has blue eyes...just like nearly every "damsel in distress"

in pop culture and on "abducted so and so" media orgies.

I think there's some culturally visceral about it. It doesn't make any sense but it's there.

[LucyParsons]

26. I am a feminist, and I despise Senator Clinton.

I find her to be transparently ambitious, duplicitious, and devoid of moral courage.

Like most other members of Congress.

I will vote for Obama, somewhat disappointedly. I think his supporters are going to be massively disappointed; looking at his record, it's obvious he's no real change-agent in the mold of Dr. King. He's corporate, too (like Clinton), or he wouldn't have gotten THIS far.

I don't vote for people based on their race, sex, or any other demographic. I vote based on who I think is most likely to respect the Constitution and our civil liberties as Americans. And personal integrity is a secondary factor. That's it. Period.

I cannot fathom why so many people think Hillary gives a shit about them.

[Carolina]

29. Totally agree, LucyP

Your statement: "I find her to be transparently ambitious, duplicitious, and devoid of moral courage," sums it up perfectly.

That's why she voted for IWR and has otherwise gone along with Bush while in the Senate. My question for all her supporters is when has she fought for them during her term as a senator? All I have seen is that she fights for herself, her campaign, her political viability and her personal power.

Her vaunted 35 years experience is hollow, based on proximity to Bill's power. It's analogous to a surgeon's wife claiming s/he has OR experience!and can therefore perform your coronary artery bypass graft.

HRC moved to NY to run for Senate there precisely intending to use that state as her POTUS launching pad. She is arrogant, petulant and truly despicable. So I can't fathom the stupidity (yeah, I said it) of those feminists who support her just because she's a woman. Would they support Condoleeza Rice, Karen Hughes, Dana Perino, Barbara Bush, Laura Bush...

I don't have a dog in this fight any more.

[LucyParsons]

35. "Would they support Condoleeza Rice, Karen Hughes, Dana Perino, Barbara Bush, Laura Bush..."

Exactly.

Condi Rice's womanhood hasn't helped her make any more morally courageous (or even, correct) decisions. Fuck that.

[Lyric]

28. Because I wanted to win the general election more than anything.

I sincerely believe that Hillary could have won it, and Obama cannot. Obama seems to freak out the poorer white folks. We can't win without that demographic. It's not a pleasant reality, but there it is. :shrug:

As a person with a racially diverse family, I share the desire to get a racial minority in the White House. But as a poor person...the utter despair of our circumstances made getting a Democrat--ANY Democrat--in office more important than ANYTHING else.

Slightly more than half of my party disagreed with those priorities. Oh well. It's no longer something I can do anything about, so I'm just kinda floating along, watching the sideshow at this point.

[Tennessee Gal]

30. Could not agree more with this statement.

"I sincerely believe that Hillary could have won it, and Obama cannot."

[Taxmyth]

33. I sincerely believe that Hillary could have won it, and Obama cannot.

agreed

[dcindian]

31. Because it gives them the chance to play the victim card

while slinging poo at their opponent.

[intaglio]

32. I think some of them seriously view her as a Goddess

[LWolf]

36. Are you sure it's an intense loyalty to HRC,

and not just an intense dislike and distrust of Obama?

There are Obama supporters who joined his camp, not because of any enthusiasm for him, but because an intense dislike and distrust of Clinton. I'm betting there are some people in the Clinton camp for the same reason.