[Pretend Anger]How Dare She Mention RFK or Assassination!!!![/Pretend Anger]

[Austinitis]

Seriously, not only isn't this a big deal - it's not any sort of deal at all. Her point was just that, historically, it's still early in the campaign season. That's why her RFK comment followed a comment about her husband's campaign.

If you Obama people want to trash it, please provide:

1) An interpretation of her comments; for which you provide an explanation of

2) Why that message would be offensive; and which you also

3) Defend with some kind of arguments or evidence.


Of course, you're not going to and that's because you're just pretending to be angry. And that's what I, and everyone else, are going to continue to assume until you back up the fake anger with some kind of substance.

[Austinitis]

1. Also, it's Friday before memorial day. This won't even matter in a political sense

let alone in terms of substance.

[Saturday]

2. It's just the May 23rd BO Supporters Tizzy Dance. They love bitter outrage. nt

[Occam Bandage]

3. I understand it may be difficult for one who deals in manufactured emotion to comprehend

actual emotion.

[Austinitis]

11. I agree. That's probably why Obama supporters can't tell the difference between

what they're doing and how normal people respond when someone says something that's actually offensive.

[Occam Bandage]

16. Austin, it was actually offensive. Candidates--especially candidates who

consider 'toughness' and 'steady leadership' to be premium commodities--do not issue immediate apologies lightly. If a candidate apologizes for a statement, it means they fucked up.

That said, the mass head-exploding here is rather ridiculous. Not out of the ordinary for the Internet, but internet outrage is always ridiculous.

[Austinitis]

30. It's not actually offensive,

and we see that in the fact that no one's been able to say what she was implying that should offend. And she apologized because she can kill the story which didn't even break until 3 before anyone gets back from the memorial day weekend. It doesn't have anything to do with being sorry (since political apologies rarely do).

[Occam Bandage]

43. "And she apologized because she can kill the story."

Why should she have had to kill a story in which nobody was actually offended? If the outrage is transparent, and there's no real 'there' there, why not simply turn it around?

[Austinitis]

47. Because it crowds out any message that she might be pushing.

[Occam Bandage]

49. So does any story that isn't pre-approved. Certainly the race flaps crowded out her message.

Yet she didn't go on-screen to give a personal apology for those, now did she?

[Austinitis]

57. Because normally in politics it's a mistake to back off from something

Then the story line becomes "now that we all agree they did something wrong, how bad was it?" But if you can kill the controversy before a long weekend you deprive it of air and it drops off the radar. If this had happened on Monday I doubt she would have apologized.

[Occam Bandage]

68. "If this had happened on Monday I doubt she would have apologized."

This is going to be over by Monday whether she apologized or not. You're right that bogus controversies die quickly. If it was actually unoffensive--that is to say, if voters were not actually going to find offense anywhere in this statement--then simply denying the offensive quality of the statement and claiming that Obama is engaging in hysterical gotcha politics would be equally effective. You have one person's statement, another person's statement, and voters don't give a shit. Everyone starts over Monday.

No, she realized that in that case, the "voters don't give a shit" part would not apply. She knew she had to kill it--because she knew that it was a politically boneheaded statement. This isn't just getting play on DU and the Obama blogosphere, you realize.

I think you're a bit too far gone into Hillaryworld to see reality as anything but a set of learned rules and figures, to tell the truth.

[Austinitis]

113. Looks like the voters don't care

Not that the people here did either, since it was all pretend anger, but this proves my point. Hillary's numbers are actually up in our first data back since after the comments. In fact, her numbers are back to where they were on May 4th, before NC and IN. So despite the entire media establishment trying to drag her down, Obama still can't finish the job.




So I'm going to wait for the popular vote to come in before I declare this thing over...

[sniffa]

4. I don't think she was advocating for his assassination

just hoping for it.

[Occam Bandage]

9. I mean, I don't know. I take her at her word.

[JoFerret]

108. That is big of you

And you know what....I take you at your word too.
All this faux outrage is way too distracting and way too r/w-gop-esque.

[Coexist]

19. as far as I know.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Are you pretending to be stupid too?

[Austinitis]

13. Why would I go around pretending to be like you?

Then I would never be right about anything...

[Occam Bandage]

24. Given the track record of your predictions here, I'd say you've got nothing to lose.

[Raven]

6. No pretend here. I am outraged. This was just beyond anything

acceptable. I just wonder what that family with those two little girls are thinking right now. Don't minimize this...it was awful, just damn awful.

[Austinitis]

15. Seriously: Why was it bad?

We agree she wasn't advocating assassination (right?). So what do you think she was saying?

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Austinitis]

23. Arguments?

Or do you just expect us to take your absurdity on its face?

[Arkansas Granny]

35. You cannot possibly believe that to be true. She made a historical reference

and some on this board are using it as a means of tearing her apart because it is your favorite pasttime.

[SoonerPride]

51. No, I totally believe it

Sorry, but she has hinted before and this time it was blatant enough to set off alarm bells from coast to coast.

She is inciting her followers to take out Obama for her.
She is throwing a match at a gas can seeing what happens.

[Arkansas Granny]

53. Then I think you must be one sick puppy.

[SoonerPride]

55. How dare you.

plonk

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shadowknows69]

96. 100% spot on

[muffin1]

72. GAWD!

She was saying let me stay in, just in case Obama get assassinated. What else could she have possibly meant by that?????

[Austinitis]

79. No, she wasn't. And even the people there have come out and said

that she was just pointing out how early it is in the season.

[muffin1]

81. What people?

By the way, there are many ways to say how early it is in the election season...without mentioning an ASSASSINATION! For Christ's sake, this is a brilliant Senator. This makes no sense whatsoever.

[bvar22]

102. Translation of Hillary's comment:

The ONLY way I'll ever get to be president is if someone shoots this motherfucker!

Say "Goodbye" to the VP.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. [Pretend DU'er] How dare I pretend?

Seriously.

[wileedog]

8. I'm not angry, I just think it was an incredibly dumb thing to say

BECAUSE some people - and some of them not even Obama fanatics on DU, will take it the wrong way.

If she thought this comment was just going to sail by un-noticed - especially when Bobby's brother just got diagnosed with brain cancer - then one has to question her political ability to do the job she is running for.

[Stagecoach]

10. Early in the primary season?

Since when is 2 states left out of 50 remaining considered early?

[union_maid]

12. It's beyond the pale

You don't have to think she was planning or hoping for Obama's assassination to understand that this statement was a symptom of some kind of serious problem. She needs help. She really does.

[Austinitis]

21. :eyes:

:eyes:

So really, what do you think she was saying?

[union_maid]

74. Pretty much just what she said

Anything can happen. Assassinations have happened. If you don't see what is so wrong with that, I can't ever explain it to you.

[MattBaggins]

86. What do you suggest she was saying?

She was trying to point out that "anything" could happen. She made an absolutely silly comment comparing her husband hitting his mark with the most populated state CA in June. She has no CA left and she took it the next step and tried to hint at the "catastrophic" option. Just by turning in that direction she was hovering her foot over a flaming pile of poo. Hell she could have at least minimized it by stating that a "Gary Hart" moment could happen. No she slammed her foot right down on that brown bag by pointing out that "anything" could even be assassination. What kind of platform is it to say I'm still in this because something really bad could still happen?

No she wasn't trying to get a supporter to do this; but all she needs is one crazy Hinckley to hear something that dumb and try to act on it.

Too stupid to be President.

[cottonseed]

14. So if he is shot, like I suppose she's hoping. Wouldn't she still be #2?

I mean, she could step out of the race t day, and if her wish were to come true, she'd still probably be in the next spot. So, why is this a logical point for her to reference as a reason for staying in?

[Melinda]

17. You're obviously a child... I remember Bobby/MLK & JFK assasinations

I fucking LIVED IT!!! Do you know that the 40th anniversary of Bobby's murder is in less than 2 weeks? Do you know how the diagnosis of Teddy's cancer has affected those of us who were once young and full of idealism even in the midst of a war that killed 58+ thousand of our young men and women including the young boy I was to marry?

You are a gutless child with no empathy for anyone except your fearless piece of shit leader. You have NO idea the firestoprm that is about to descend on that Situational Ethics only BITCH called Clinton.

A pox on BOTH of YOU!!!

[Chalco]

25. Melinda. Calm down.

I, like you, lived through all the assassinations. I know exactly where I was at the time of each one. It was horrific. I do not believe, however, that Clinton was unconsciously wishing for it to happen so that she could be the nominee. She is also a candidate as is John McCain. Was she unconsciously wishing for her own demise or that of John McCain's? The anniversary of RFKs is coming up, she was thinking about Ted Kennedy and history and was talking in generalities about the history of the nomination process. Take a deep breath. She was talking about why people keep pressuring her to get out of the race and going over the history. She has approximately half of the delegates/votes whatever. It's not like when Huckabee pulled out. She's got half. Meaning half of us want her and not Obama. Half.

[shadowknows69]

98. She crossed a line, she should be driven out of the party

[Austinitis]

32. If you keep pretending this hard you're going to burst a vein or something

Again, just mentioning the assassination isn't a big deal (a NYTimes article did it a few weeks ago; was that offensive?) Unless you have some evidence that she was implying something, I'm going to take this for what it is - pretend anger.

:eyes:

[Cosmocat]

75. I am not angry, but two points ...

I am not angry ...

It just is yet another in a long string of statements that reveal how unhinged she is ... It just is a flat STUPID thing to say, and as someone else noted, the fact that she apologized so quickly, that SHE apologized so quickly reveals that it was a massively horrible thing to say ...

Second, whatever rage, real or imagined, from BO supporters is NOTHING compared to what the rage would have been had this been BO saing it in relation to Hill ... Hill's campaign would have called for him to immediately leave the race ... It would have made the faux Wright issue look like nothing ...

[deerheadgal]

18. I AM angry...not just pretending...

There are enough nuts out there to take this as an open invitation. What a thing to say!

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bhikkhu]

26. Your assumption is pretty screwed up -

that because people are only pretending to be angry, they will not pause to satisfy your three-pointed request.

It doesn't really work that way in the real world, and much less here.

[Austinitis]

41. We know they're pretending be

We know they're pretending because no one can manage to defend an interpretation of the comments that is actually offensive. There's nothing in the comments to get upset about, so it's a farce.

[bhikkhu]

85. Denial.

[Tarheel_Dem]

111. If Hillary's remarks were so inconsequential, why is the o.p. in all out spin mode?

The campaign is issuing statements left & right, and her minions here have started any number of threads trying to tamp down the veracity of her "misspeak". She immediately issued an "apology" (which is totally uncharacteristic). They know in their hearts that she stepped into a big 'ol pile of dookey, and like the Wright story, this will dog their candidate throughout the remainder of this campaign, especially when her SD's begin to switch.

Fortunately for us, the o.p. doesn't get to tell us how we should feel about her comments. Full out damage control mode, that's what we're witnessing.

[quiet.american]

27. Why would anyone have to "pretend" to be angry on DU? If people are angry, they're angry.

Further, why would anyone owe you an explanation of why they're angry? Your post implies you are more qualified than anyone else to decide if their anger is justified. Further, this anger is not confined to DU. Assume what you like. People, and not just on DU, are genuinely offended and upset over her words. If someone has to explain to you as to why, I can only assume you can't really be serious about why you have no clue as to what could possibly upset anyone about Clinton's words.

[Austinitis]

28. I don't know why, but Obama supporters do it all the time... n/t

[quiet.american]

107. Link? :) nt

[Guava Jelly]

29. Assassination isn't anything to joke about

It isn't forgivable it isn't funny.
It is a fucked up thing to insinuate.

[Austinitis]

33. She told a joke? Oh, nvm... I forgot you weren't talking about the facts to begin with...

[Guava Jelly]

40. I am talking about "nudge nuge , wink wink, say no more,

say no more"

[Austinitis]

44. She nudged someone? Or winked? Oh! Silly me, I forgot again that you're not doing the fact thing.

[Guava Jelly]

54. Why are you being so abrasive?

Sniff sniff.. :rofl:

[Occam Bandage]

58. Why do you think? Austin thinks the appropriate countermeasure is to deny the problem and push back.

It's often an effective strategy. It's dumb as hell when your candidate has actually fucked up, though. Even the Clinton campaign realizes the best course of action is to retreat here.

[Austinitis]

66. It's the substantively correct position (bc/she didn't do anything wrong) but it's a politically bad

move, since it keeps the story alive. I'm not driving the story here, so I don't mind calling the fake anger for what it is.

[Occam Bandage]

69. A quiet denial on a Friday before a long holiday weekend kills a bogus story just as dead.

This ain't a bogus story. Yours is neither the substantively correct nor the politically intelligent position.

[theboss]

31. Historically, it is not early in the campaign season since we are done with primaries

It is late in the campaign season. The dates may be different, but that's because the process is different.

But on top of that, why does she keep brining up the assassination of a candidate?

[tekisui]

34. It was a Major Gaffe, a Fuck Up, and a Show Stopper.

I am just disgusted she thought it was okay to say.

Shame on you for defending it.

[Austinitis]

36. No. You're not. You're pretending to be disgusted.

And not doing a very good job at that...

[tekisui]

38. I am disgusted. I was disgusted with Hucka bee's joke,

The gun mag cover, and Hillary's fuck up. I am giving her the benefit that she didn't mean what it sounded like she meant. It was still Grade A stupid and is a deal breaker for her VP slot.

I am disgusted, and don't give a shit if you deem my disgust worthy of you blessing.

Anybody got anything to cure this fucking itis?

[MonkeyFunk]

37. aw you're gonna ruin their hate-frenzy!

Well, actually, no you won't. They dont' care about the truth anymore - haven't for awhile. They're just going to glom onto this lie like a pitbull.

Any excuse to hate is like a new toy for them.

[tekisui]

39. And you think what she said was okay?

It was a royal fuck up.

[Austinitis]

42. Well, I do regret that what she said

is now subjecting thousands of her supporters to the bad acting of Obama supporters...

[tekisui]

46. Oh woe is them.

Ever the victims....

[MonkeyFunk]

45. Her point was that Kennedy was still in the race as of June

It's absurd to say that any use of the word "assassination" implies the speaker wants or wishes for somebody to be assassinated.

[tekisui]

50. I don't think she wishes that.

I think she was sowing fear or doubt. She could have made the point about long races in many different ways without bringing up an assassination of a popular candidate.

It was a ridiculously stupid thing to say. Especially after all the heat huchthefuck caught for his "joke". It isn't something to toss around lightly.

[MonkeyFunk]

56. So you're saying

that ANY reference to assassination is a veiled threat. That's just absurd.

[tekisui]

65. I'm not saying that at all.

I am saying she was using a sensitive subject to either sow fear or defend her campaign length.

She knows as well as anyone that every word coming from a candidate's mouth is picked over. She messed up. She could have made her point of campaigns going past June without referencing an assassination. She knows that is a sensitive subject. I don't think she was threatening or even wishing that. But, the alluding was very bad form, and open herself up to criticism and suspicion.

[martymar64]

78. Nice excuse Sirhan!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

83. They.

Some people say you are broad-brush smearing asshole.

[Edgewater_Joe]

48. The Explanation? Hillbot Spinners Are Vile Humans

Truth hurts?

Too bad.

[Gore1FL]

52. Not a Big deal?

So I guess it wouldn't be a big deal if Obama's counter argument was to point out that the Carpetbagging Senator from New York was the one assassinated? How would you feel then? I know I'd be pissed. Come on! She fucked up, and did so in a big way.

[opiate69]

59. [Pretend intelligence]"I'm for Hillary! Hillary is 44!![/Pretend intelligence]

[Medusa]

62. You deserve a DUzy for that post.

very funny. :evilgrin: and oh so true. Her new campaign spectrum should be, "If your IQ is below room temp, I'm your candidate", that's how smart they all are.

[opiate69]

73. heh.. I usually try to stay out of the feces-flinging here.. but every now and then,

there comes a post whose abject ridiculousness leaves me no choice but to let fly with the snark..

:evilgrin:

[dave29]

61. You are trying to get people to explain an emotional reaction with logic

how stupid

[Austinitis]

67. There's no emotional reaction to explain.

The lack of logic simply points that out.

[dave29]

87. Truly impressed with your ability to understand the mind of everyone

who might be offended by a reference to assassination.

[rucky]

63. Hold on, let me get my paperwork in order...

before I submit my application to be Pissed Off.

I really hope you approve it.

[Pale Blue Dot]

64. March 30 2008 - 693

I'm just sayin'....

[ebdarcy]

70. Trust me, I'm not pretending to be angry.

I am absolutely pissed.

You want an interpretation of her comments? She used RFK's assassination to justify her staying in the race. What more do you need? She is saying that because a tragedy happened 40 years ago, it can happen again. And that if it happens she'll be the nominee. I'm sorry if you're too dense to understand her meaning.

So, why is it offensive? Well, I'm pretty certain that the people who love him would find it offensive. No one wants the possibility of a tragedy pointed out to them. Both Barack and Michelle are smart enough to know the stakes. They don't need the opposition to point out what may occur.

And don't underestimate the damage to the American psyche that would occur if something were to happen to Senator Obama. My mom was 16 in 1968. She still remembers that day, as I'm sure everyone else does. She became so jaded and hopeless that she didn't vote until the 1992 presidential election. She is perhaps the most pessimistic person I know. And why shouldn't she be? It was just too much.

So, believe me, my anger is genuine.

[slinkerwink]

71. It's offensive because she mentioned RFK being assassinated as a reason

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oviedodem]

77. The problem is not one of fact, it is one of tact/taste. It is tasteless to bring up the mere

thought of assassination. Regardless of who is running, it is the worst kind of political event that could happen to any public official. It is even more highlighted because Obama has/is/was threatened with this; ie the sniper target photo in a magazine just last week.

It is quite disturbing that she would say this after hearing about Teddy just recently.

And lastly, it is just plain tasteless.

I don't how else to put it to you.

[Austinitis]

80. So the NYT article last month talking about assassination was tasteless?

And what about the Obama bringing up the possibility of a Hillary assassination when he rejected her offer to let him be VP?

[oviedodem]

82. When did Obama say that?? Second, newspapers and pundits are one thing BUT

the candidates SHOULD NOT GO THERE!

[Austinitis]

93. Right here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esdY8PK_q8Q

[sam kane]

84. I hope that you got paid a lot for that soul.

n/t

[Thrill]

88. Hey turn on your local or national news. IT IS A BIG DEAL

[zulchzulu]

89. I would fully expect Hillbot apologists to feign ignorance on this latest Hillary treasure

My middle finger salute aims right at you.

If you are STILL supporting her at this point, you are indeed an inane idiot.

[ericgtr]

90. Go to hell!

[Austinitis]

91. Yawn.... Weak acting...

[ericgtr]

104. Not as weak as your candidate is now.. she's finished

bookmarked to point this fact out after she is pushed out of this race before it's finished.

[Warren DeMontague]

92. Let me guess: "outrage" over Rev. Wright/Arugula/"bitter-gate" or using the word "punishment"

in the context of government forcing teens to stay pregnant against their will (and you wonder why NARAL endorsed him instead of your candidate?) ... all those were totally legitimate sources of the levels of outrage we saw spewed around here...


right?

[shadowknows69]

94. I'd love to meet someone that thinks this is no big deal in person

And show them how not angry I am.

[Austinitis]

97. I wouldn't try that... If your acting is this weak in text

I can't imagine what it would be like in person.

[shadowknows69]

101. Oh I wouldn't be acting

Tearing, ripping, pummeling, breaking, eviscerating, but not acting.

[CreekDog]

95. c'mere a minute

wanna take a closer look at *fake* anger? :eyes:

[dailykoff]

99. No, it's no big deal if you're as craven and evil as Hillary.

No big deal at all.

[Imagevision]

100. Finally! Hillary is staying in the race because there is a chance he may be assassinated in June...

[SeaLyons]

103. The only thing truly outrageous about this whole thing is...

KO's comments. That was absolutely OUTRAGEOUS, and I'd say Hillary has endured having her character ASSASSINATED endlessly by KO and the MSM for months now. No one with any common sense would believe that Hillary meant anything dark with the comment she made.

Faux outrage, that's all it is, and a continuation of slamming Hillary.

[TheZug]

105. Stoking racial animosity and then talking about assassination is PLAYING WITH FIRE.

[TheZug]

106. Stoking racial animosity and then talking about assassination is PLAYING WITH FIRE.

[Latin liberal]

109. RFK's comment was on point

Great analysis.

[Garbo 2004]

110. Historically, primaries started later then than they do now. And CA used to have primary in June.

Not the case now. So in 2008 June really is later (not early) in the primary season considering when the 2008 primaries began.

Furthermore, Bill Clinton effectively had the nomination wrapped up in March of '92. The California primary numerically put him over the top, but for months before there was no question that Bill Clinton would be the Dem nominee.

[ClassWarrior]

112. It's no big deal. Just talk of cold-blooded political murder.

Go about your business. There's nothing to see here.

:puke:

NGU.