She fucked up. She apologized. And the outrage here is fucking ridiculous.

[cali]

If there's one thing I'm sure of it's that politicians say stupid things from time to time, particularly when they've been freakin' campaigning day in and day out for almost a year.

Attributing deep dark ugly motives to Hillary's comment about Bobby Kennedy is absurd. She doesn't want Obama dead. It's disgusting to say she does.

Hillary has done and continues to do things I think are wrong and harmful to the party.

This was a stupid comment, but she apologized.

I'm not shy about criticizing Hillary, but the crap about how she's a murderous psycho, is just sickening.

[slinkerwink]

1. she didn't apologize. It was a classic non-apology apology.

"I'm sorry if you were offended."

[americanstranger]

30. Yeah, and she didn't apologize at all

the first two times she said the same thing.

I got no sympathy for her. She's supposed to be so politically smart.

Either she's not, and that precludes her from being president. Or she is, which is even worse.

She should go back to NY and get a nice, long rest. Like until Inauguation Day.

- as

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

181. poor Hillary, Obama owes her an apology for still breathing

right?

Why the Obama icon? Think that will help hide what you are?

Your words give you away.

[musicblind]

192. OMGsh???? Did you just call CALI of all people a Hillary supporter?

This poster has been a VERY VERY vocal Obama poster and made overwhelmingly negative comments on Clinton in the past. Though, for the most part, only when she felt that Clinton had done something deserving of those comments. (though she felt that way often) She is just trying to state, in a rational way, her opinion on this subject and you accuse her of lying about who she supports?

[Name removed]

216. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arkansas Granny]

31. Were the Kennedy's offended? I haven't heard anything about it if they were.

[americanstranger]

47. I haven't read anything from the Kennedys yet.

Those who are watching the teevee will probably hear about that first.

- as

[tishaLA]

57. they won't say anything.

they are, as a group, decent people who love the party.

[McSame]

53. The week that the father of the Kennedy clan gets a death sentence and you are asking...

if the Kennedy's are offended?

Geesh!

[kskiska]

146. Robert Kennedy Jr. speaks out on Clinton comment

Robert Kennedy Jr. issued a statement this evening regarding the comments Hillary Clinton made today on the assassination of Sen. Bobby Kennedy.

"It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband's 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense,” read the statement.

more…
http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080523/UPDATES/80523048/1003/BUSINESS

[Auntie Bush]

153. Somebody ought to send that to KO. He's getting full of himself.

If Bobby can understand...he should too and not go off the deep end.

[Beacool]

256. Who listens to KO other than the Obama fans????

The guy lost it a while ago. I can just imagine what he made of Hillary's comments. How long was the diatribe this time around? Did he beat his own record?

:crazy:

[ebayfool]

164. That left out the bit that he had NOT seen or heard the video when ...

he gave that interview. Wonder why they didn't mention that?!
Here's a source that fills in that blank -

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/clinton-calls-vp-chatter-completely-untrue/index.html?hp

snip (with bolding to ensure the relevant bits are noted)/
Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who has endorsed Mrs. Clinton, defended her remarks in a telephone interview Friday evening. “I’ve heard her make that argument before,” Mr. Kennedy said, speaking on his cell phone as he drove to the family compound in Hyannis for the holiday weekend. “It sounds like she was invoking a familiar historical circumstance in support of her argument for continuing her campaign.”
Mr. Kennedy said he has been traveling and had not seen the video or read Mrs. Clinton’s comments, but said his support of Mrs. Clinton has not wavered.

[musicblind]

194. Wow, considering that came from Robert Kennedy Jr.

maybe a few more of us on DU should consider his reasonable position.

[shaniqua6392]

222. Any Obama supporter is not going to care what RFK, Jr. said.

His opinion on the matter is far more important to me than anyone here on DU. If he was not insulted, then I am not insulted. She did not mean anything horrible by saying that. She was just trying to explain that there have been many other times that the nomination process went into June and cited a few examples. Now everyone is running around saying she secretly wants someone to kill Obama?? What the hell is wrong with people? Don't they understand that this actually does not help Obama or the Democratic Party in general? It looks like we are a bunch of idiots fighting and now threatening to bump off candidates to get into the White House. I can see the New York Post and Faux News taking advantage of it, but fellow DU'ers and Obama supporters should be careful not to cut off their nose despite their face. But no....I guess it is much more fun to paint a Democratic United States Senator named Hillary Clinton as a murderous thug.

[highprincipleswork]

175. Much more than about the Kennedys

This is about much more than the Kennedys. This is about someone running for President who brings up the concept of "assassination" in an implied sense of "doing harm" to a political opponent.

This simply cannot be tolerated.

She has shown her true colors, to all that would see them. If she could handle defeat gracefully, she would do herself and the Democratic Party a huge favor. While her efforts in recent weeks strike many of us as ungraceful, disingenuous, calculating, self-serving, cynical, appealing to the lowest common denominator, and hurtful to the Democratic Party, this statement of hers crosses the line.

One cannot seriously run for President and imply that something like "assassination" could happen to the other candidate. It simply is not morally proper to bring up such a repugnant concept.

[Cosmocat]

89. Yep and ...

This is the same "republican" apology we have heard 1000 times since the media started to call them on their nonsense ...

And, make no bones, had BO said this same thing Hill herself and her campaign WOULD be on every media outlet possible calling for him to immediately terminate his campaign ... There is no way to overstate how hard they would have pushed this story as a clear example of how he was not ready to be president ...

[roguevalley]

101. I guess that 99% of the world currently boggling at her stupid words

are being silly. how sad you are, op

[dchill]

136. Yep. And the apology was to the Kennedy family...

you know, IF it was offensive. I'm sorry, but I think cali got this one wrong. But Keith got it right. :)

[WillyToad]

243. Anger has turned into a comfort zone...

and it is shredding the Democratic party to pieces.

[skooooo]

2. Well the rest of America disagrees with you by and large.

[K Gardner]

3. Respectfully disagree with you on this one, Cali. The outrage is NOT about her being "murderous"..

and I think you know that.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. It's Not The One Thing - It's The Accumulation Of All Sorts Of Stuff

It's hard to give her the benefit of the doubt on anything.

[libnnc]

5. SHE DID NOT APOLOGIZE TO BARACK OBAMA AND HIS FAMILY

FAIL

[2rth2pwr]

12. SHE DID NOT APOLOGIZE TO ME OR MY DOG.

DAMMIT.

[Doityourself]

59. You owe your dog an apology for having to hang out with you, you on the other hand deserve nada!

[Raine]

69. Oh is she waiting for you to die too?

[dchill]

137. Get in line. :)

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[2rth2pwr]

177. Oh good Lord, the dramatics around here are quite the sight.

[musicblind]

197. haha, great response 2rth2pwr

had me :rofl:

[grassfed]

6. It was rehearsed - there is no defense

For those who contend that Clinton was referring to competitive contests or example, why didn't she bring up Ted Kennedy in 1980? Or Gary Hart in 1984? I think she was pointing to primary races where the eventual nominee was unknown at this point in the cycle.... But 1984 would apply more, her husband was the de-facto nominee at this point, and the compressed calender really renders such comparisons null and void.

She made an apology to the Kennedy family, not to Senator Obama. Since some seem unwilling to point out why this remark was more than unfortunate, it is worth remembering that we have the first black candidate for president. You only have to spend a few minutes talking with African-Americans about this campaign to discover that the fear that Obama could be assassinated is very much on their minds. It is in everyone's subconscious, especially Michelle Obama's. To refer to the June assassination of Bobby Kennedy in the context of reasons to stay in this interminable race against Barack Obama is therefore catastrophically inappropriate. Coming after her pitch for "white votes", it is reckless.

As for her argument that June primaries are nothing new, she is correct. But in no previous primary election did the voting start just after New Years' Day. The New Hampshire primary in 1968 was on March 12, two months later than this year. For June, therefore, read August. Yes, this season has gone on for ever. And for Senator Clinton, it has now obviously gone on too long.

She's been waiting for Obama to implode. Instead, she just has.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com /

[Raine]

75. There was also Ford vs. Raygun in 76

I remember that going all the way to the convention as they fought right down to the individual delegate. There's no excuse for bringing up the assasination, none at all.

[Auntie Bush]

154. Don't you all see you are just using this as an opportunity to push Clinton out.

It's all just made up fake outrage of convenience. ..it's pathetic.You can't even see your own motives.

[Name removed]

167. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Writer]

7. I think it's there because it's dangerous for those few supporters to believe anything different.

Because doing so would actually challenge one's world view. She will never be given the benefit of the doubt, and I think for some Clinton supporters, Obama will never be given the benefit of the doubt.

[Deja Q]

13. A universal truism, how dare anybody believe or think anything different?

[musicblind]

199. Not for this one

I do give Obama more than the benifit of the doubt. I think he's a swell politician. I do think he was misleading about his lack of knowledge regaurding Rev Wright just as Hillary lied about Bosnia. I voted for Hillary and support her. But I think Obama has such a great message and will be able to win states we haven't won in a long time. I think Hillary has a greater chance carrying places like West VA or Ohio or PA. I just wish more people could be like you and I and look at things as objectively as we can to be honest with ourselves. There is so much hate here. I don't understand it. I have never felt the need to hate someone merely because I did not vote for them???

[jerryster]

224. So far yours is the most rational reply

Sadly, there has been a lot of hate spewing on the DU. Those who indulge in it are no different to me than right wing haters. They fail to make rational arguments in favor of their candidate, hoping that vitriol and hatred will persuade. How sad.

[WeDidIt]

8. Damn, I'm gonna miss you

I cannot abide ANYBODY defending that abomination any longer.

[cali]

17. Why would you think I'm going anywhere?

just curious.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. June is coming?

[tekisui]

44. Terry Macauliff, "It will be over by mid-June"

"I expect Hillary to be the Nominee"

[ChairmanAgnostic]

67. standing by the liquor (GET THE CROWN ROYAL!) shelf

and saying NOTHING to Obama about her third reference about assassination of the leading candidate? Oh come one. She is one sick puppy. and she really needs to get out now. forever. just go away.

[cyndensco]

155. Macauliff: "It will be over by mid-June."

Tonight it seems so eerie....

[LibraLiz1973]

39. I think that was code for, "You disagree with me so you are going on ignore"

[WeDidIt]

72. I owe you an explanation

I have been putting ANYBODY who stoops so low as to actually defend this statement on ignore.

At the moment, you have been the only exception.

It's a matter of principles, and I'm conflicted on one person and only one person to this point, and that's you.

[cali]

84. I'm not defending the statement. It was stupid. It was crass.

It was ugly. Her apology was typical politician speech. I've been quite clear about how I feel about Hillary employing the Southern Strategy, making comments about how McCain is fit to be CiC but Obama isn't, etc. And it's true I'm not big on what i consider overreaction. In any case, put me on ignore or don't, that certainly your decision and not one that effects me in any way.

[msallied]

168. I've been holding the same principle. And share the same conflict.

[musicblind]

200. I think she means she is going to ignore you. Which is horrible.

because your post made sense. She made a horribly stupid and irresponsible comment. She DIDN'T however call for Obama to be assassinated and the outrage here is uncalled for. Just call it a stupid comment. Make jokes about her lack of oratory skills, call for an apology (though one was given... though she could still make another one to help smooth things over if need be) and move on.

[golddigger]

242. Well Cali it's like this. Questioning doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

Here's another one for ya Cali: The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
Would you like another one Cali: The group teaches or implies that its supposely exalted ends justify the means that members would have found unethical before joining the group.

I have a lot more if you want on why they think you are going.

Edit to add another one: Members are encouraged to socialize only with other members and if one strays they are to be ignored.

[golddigger]

241. Lmao, you people are already eating your own.

[tekisui]

9. It was a very stupid thing to say.

Why did she say it? I don't think she was threatening, or hoping for harm to Obama, but she opened herself up to suspicion and anger.

Again, why did she say it? she know the sensitivity around that subject.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

43. She was implying that something *could* happen to Obama and she would be the 'safer' choice.

She wasn't threatening Obama or wishing anything unthinkable on him, IMO, but she was definitely suggesting it could happen to Obama.

[tekisui]

46. I agree.

And it was a stupid thing to say in public.

[Arkansas Granny]

79. No. She was saying that it is not uncommon for campaigns to run into

the month of June and she gave two instances where candidates were still campaigning in June. Some people are reading way too much into the example she used. Was it a good example? Probably not. Was she suggesting that something could happen to Obama? I don't think so.

[msallied]

169. If that were ALL she said, then there would be no outrage.

To mention the assassination of RFK in the same sentence is not only wrong, but it's fucking WEIRD.

[eridani]

201. Was it ever common for campaigns to start right after New Year's Day? n/t

[Cha]

Why did she say it again? It's not the first time.

But, maybe with the Outrage it will be the last.

[JerseygirlCT]

50. That's her problem, I think. The BEST face you can put on it is

that it was HUGELY stupid.

And again, my fear is that *he* is threatened by her stupidity as much as she is hurt by it.

[ecstatic]

10. If the apology was sincere, I might agree with you. nt

[grassfed]

42. Apology scripted, adding insult to injury

When you watch the video, her buggy eyes widen and she fakes a searching for words look and says "uh..1968... in June" as if it's just coming to her. It was totally rehearsed and written by Penn or someone, probably with note to "look up searchingly, flash white lady blue contacts". The apology was expected, etc, so long as the message was sent to upcoming primary voters: "Why waste your vote on a dead black guy?" There are many other June examples she could have chosen.

UGLY CREEPY BI*CH

[Bjorn Against]

11. She did not apologize.

She said she only regretted her remarks IF people were offended by them, and she only mentioned the Kennedy remarks she did not apologize to Obama for suggesting he could be assassinated. She has a lot of explaining to do.

[Name removed]

Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sniffa]

14. Sorry, I disagree

It was a despicable comment, and that wasn't an apology.

[AllentownJake]

15. She never apologized to the Obama's

EOM

[H2O Man]

16. It was wrong to say.

People have been upset by the news about Ted Kennedy. The 40 year thing is coming up. I can understand why people are very upset.

[Lucky 13]

18. She triangulated again by apologizing to the wrong person.

She doesn't need to apologize to the Kennedys. She needs to apologize to Barack.

[phrenzy]

19. The "Outrage" Is Over The Top

People are reacting like this was a conscious attempt to put the "assassination" of Obama in people's minds. I swear, some of the absolute hatred people have for Hillary sometimes makes me worry about HER safety.

BTW - I am for Obama all the way, and want HIllary to drop out, but this is rising to the level of frightening paranoia.

[dansolo]

95. Then why the repeated mentions of something "catastrophic"?

Happening to Obama? This is just like the Bosnia episode. Once or twice, you can attribute it to fatigue or a gaffe, but after that, it is clearly planned.

[cyndensco]

159. Several of my mother's friends would not support Obama in the beginning.

They were afraid for him. They had witnessed not only RFK's assassination but several more of their heroes, and feared the same might happen to Obama.

What hillary did struck a nerve with many people. The possibility had been there all along, but hillary brought it front and center. The first few times she got away with it, but this time someone was listening.

I hope it was not a conscious attempt. I cannot say for certain that it wasn't.

[LittleBlue]

20. I don't believe the outrage is ridiculous

But I do believe she slipped. She knows this can't help her even in the most Machiavellian motive.

[Cha]

58. She "slipped" again..this is not the first time

hialry has mentioned Bobby Kennedy's assassination in her June argument..she was defended before and now she's at it again.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

21. COME ON.

what she said was that Bill won in June, changing the equation. Bobby was killed in June, changing the equation. It's only May. she has plenty for either a victory, some change or someone to shoot Obama for her.

That is what she meant. That is what she said. and SHE was pissed because people wanted her out without giving an assassin full opportunity to shoot her opponent.

[2rth2pwr]

22. Careful, you may get tried and convicted of treason here.

[Joe the Revelator]

56. Color me shocked that you would try to play the victim in this situation

[2rth2pwr]

80. I don't play a victim, I noticed how Obama supporters turned their vitriol

on the OP immediately. I see it as humorous.

[cali]

91. LOL. Color me not shocked that you'd say something

deeply stupid. How on earth you got playing the victim out of my OP, only the FSM knows.

[Joe the Revelator]

103. Hey, sweetie, I wasn't talking to you this time.

[Barrymores Ghost]

111. cali, he was addressing the idiot above him, not you. n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

110. You must LIKE to get singled out for ridicule.

You seem to wade right into a room with your arms wide open, sputtering stupid, nonsensical shit, and then cap it with a "Go ahead, abuse me now - after all, I'm the victim here."

Jesus, you are such a one-trick pony.

[2rth2pwr]

187. Oh please, Obama supporters of standing have come out one after another to state their opinion that

they think Hillary is being falsely vilified and they have been attacked mercilessly. I am just pointing out the obvious.

When have I ever complained about being attacked?

[dorkulon]

23. She apologized to the KENNEDYS. Nothing in there about

how she didn't mean to imply Obama would be assasinated. Why?

[Stephanie]

24. For months her campaign has been floating the idea that some catastrophic event cd befall Obama

And she'd be there to pick up the pieces. Why do you consistently exhibit so much concern for her?

[havocmom]

54. Yep. Think we should revist her repeated tale of snipers?

I think she was planting seeds back then, or her sub-conscious was seeping up to the surface.

Hillary sees ANYTHING that is helpful to Hillary as OK.

She is sick. Her apologists are not much better off.

[Cha]

62. Agreed she is sick..and she has too many

enablers.

[indimuse]

221. There is a TON of INFO out there...she know's about...but has TOO MUCH CLASS to release herself!

All you Obama people, give it a rest…as someone else said, Obama has compared himself in the past has to slain individuals. This is a lot of BS about nothing….Obama needs to get back to work and try to bamboozle the people for the November elections…and oh! ya……Hillary isn’t going anywhere…”get use to it”



I've seen an amazing amount of material against BO...you could NEVER post here...BUT guess what...I think after this lil' episode..GAME OVER for BO! The damage created in this primary is unprecedented and intentional....via the BO campaign.

[redqueen]

25. If anyone's saying she's a murderous psycho, then yeah that's bullshit.

But it seems to me that this, being a pattern as it now clearly is... is more likely a calculated effort intended to plant fear in voters minds that he might be assassinated. That's how I read it.

I can't see it as a stupid gaffe. Sorry.

[ErinBerin84]

26. I'm not really shocked or outraged.

But I do think it's worth noting that she makes the WEIRDEST historical references! Is it just me? I think I'm less shocked by this particular thing because I have heard her use it before. At best, it was really tone deaf, especially this week.

[WA98296]

27. How should she apologize for possibly insighting the assassination of her competitor?

She didn't come close. She didn't even try. She is a trained lawyer, and a seasoned politician, who KNOWS well about weighing every word.

[book_worm]

28. Except she really didn't apologize to Obama.

[99th_Monkey]

29. Her "apology" just added insult to injury. Go Hillary!! To the exit door that is.

[michaz]

33. That is her problem, she always says stuff she shouldn't, then apologizes and gets away with it!

Well, not this time!

[tularetom]

34. Of course she's not a murderous psycho - as far as i know

What she is is a very unhappy and bitter human being. Of course she didn't say this intentionally but the fact that she said it at all is an indication of her thought processes. She is desperate and flailing around for somethin, anything that may catch on with the superdelegates. The fact that she thought this would help is reason enought to pull the plug on her campaign now.

[LibraLiz1973]

35. Great post from an Obama supporter I think is A1.

Right on Cali.

[qazplm]

36. not really

if she'd said, oh my goodness I said something horrible that I didnt intend and I am sorry, then Id agree with you.

But she didn't, she said, I'm sorry if anyone was offended.

That's a non-apology, apology that you say because you realize you have to say something, not because you truly feel sorry.

[reflection]

37. I respectfully disagree with you too Cali.

And I'm the guy who got snarked at for listing you on the 'uniter' thread, so believe me, I've no axe to grind (nor does it bolster my point, but I'm just saying). I felt it was desperate and contrived, especially in lieu of her earlier verbatim comments to Time Magazine.

In my opinion (and I've cooled down somewhat) she is either using possible assassination as a clumsy tool to deflect criticism of her dead campaign carcass stinking up the joint, or she's trying to make the public uneasy with fears that a madman will go after Obama.

[JeffR]

38. I seldom disagree with you

but I do here. The apology - at best - was weak, and as noted upthread, it's not the Kennedy clan she should be apologizing to anyway.

[oviedodem]

40. I am not angry and she is not implying that this happen HOWEVER you don't

plant a seed like that. And it would not matter who was the other candidate.

[KAZ]

41. Love you Cali, but I have to disagree on this. It wasn't the 1st time.

And that was hardly an apology.

[AspenRose]

71. Agreed.

.

[Barrymores Ghost]

118. It was the third, to be precise. It's not a bad habit, it's a whistle-stop chant.

And I am beginning to seriously wonder to whom she's really directing it.

[Windy]

45. Its her profound lack of judgment Cali that is exemplified by this latest gaffe.

Its a pattern with her.

[Arkansas Granny]

48. I appreciate your remarks, Cali, knowing how much heat you're going to take for them.

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail, but I suspect this is going to be the main topic of discussion this evening.

[Joe the Revelator]

49. First of all it was a weak apology. Second of all, the fact that you're NOT outraged that Hillary

would use the specter of assassination is "ridiculous".

The lady is crazy.

[DevonRex]

51. I listened to it. I read the transcript. No reason to mention

assassination at all if all she meant was that primaries don't end until June. Pretty simple to leave out the assassination stuff.

[Barack_America]

52. She apologized to the Kennedys.

And, has been noted, this wasn't the first time she used this tactic. Yes, tactic. She intended to say this.

[yourguide]

55. She apologized to the Kennedys

not to Obama and his family.

[beachmom]

60. Actually, she did not apologize. And she doesn't get a pass here

because she didn't give Kerry one. Tough luck for her.

[dcindian]

61. Hillary has a penchant for doing hurtful things in order to gain a few votes.

She has shown again and again that she is willing to go just a bit lower to eek out some abstract theorem on why we should not count the votes as counted. It is in that darkness with which many of us are viewing this hurtful and ignorant position she has on her chances of winning and it's effect on the Democrat party.

1968 was a terrible year. Violence at the Democratic convention, a very weak republican candidate walking away with the presidency. There is no way to tie the assassination of Mr. Kennedy to a healing of the Democrat party. The only thing left is for us to believe she was talking about was a way to sneak into a nomination.

And yes that does deserve every last bit of crap being spewed here.

[DeschutesRiver]

63. She didn't fuck up nor did she apologize

she said exactly what she meant - her reason for staying in the race she has already lost is the hope that someone really bad will happen to her opponent. She admits this is the only real "shot" she has. She is entitled to her opinion, and I to mine, which is that this is despicable thinking, and should be left to the privacy of her own home and cronies. Not blasted around in public, if nothing else out of sensitivity to one of Obama's big supporters namely Ted Kennedy, who is dying at this very moment. She thinks of no one else but herself.

And with that, the lady just ended her campaign.

[Raine]

64. Any "apology" that includes the words *IF* or

*BUT* is NOT an apology.

[Bluerthanblue]

65. it is NOT the first time she's said this- it is the first time she

been cornered for having said it.

What was her point Cali? There is no comparison in terms of primary dates- NH's was the second tuesday in March in 68- this year it was the 8th of Jan. There were several states left after Ca.'s June primary in '68.

I don't think she intends to 'murder' Obama- But - I DO think she would do or say almost anything to promote her chances.

She needs to find a way to accept her situation. We are watching her crash and burn.

And as many have pointed out- she didn't apologize to the person who she hoped to harm either implicitly or sub-consciously by her comparison.

peace~

[rubberducky]

66. I totally agree with you.

Anyone who thinks she was calling for Baraks` assasination is out of thier mind. I usually do not post on either candidate. Whoever wins the nomination is who I will support. The ONE person that we must beat is McCain. We need unity or we will go down in flames, with a GWB third term. We have lived through 7 1/2 years of THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER. Focus, people!

[Tatiana]

68. You don't have to feel like Clinton wants Obama to die to be outraged by Hillary's comments.

They were, in the KINDEST light, HUGELY insensitive, given not only the fact that the 40th anniversary of of the assassination she referenced is right around the corner, but also the fact that said man's brother has brain cancer.

Insensitive in the KINDEST light.

Add to that the racism that's been on display before, during, and after the Kentucky and West Virginia primaries, certain folk knowing that Obama is a black man, and that we had two other very charismatic black men (MLK... and hey, you can throw Malcolm X in there too) ASSASSINATED as well and...

You mean to tell me you don't see where the outrage is coming from? Or why there is outrage? Or why someone is even questioning how a lawyer of Clinton's formidable intelligence and knowledge of argument would fix her mouth to make such a statement?

Insensitive and stupid in the KINDEST light.

But you add "working white voters" into the mix. You add he's not a muslim "as far as I know" into the mix. You stir in a little "He can't win!" and cali, I am going to have to disagree with you to infinity and beyond. I don't subscribe to the most SINISTER interpretation of Hillary's comments, but I sure as hell can't tell anyone that it's not possible.

The outrage is deserved. The message needs to be sent that this shit is not acceptable under any circumstances. *If* she screwed up, then by God, anyone contemplating any screw-ups similar to this one better take careful notes. Don't do it. Don't go there.

[WillyT]

70. No Cali...It Is Not...

And you definitely know why.

[stillcool]

73. it's nothing her campaign has not voiced...

before. Although I didn't know that the "catastrophic" event they were hoping for was that "catastrophic".

Clinton campaign on ropes
BY JOHN GUERRIERO

Published: May 08. 2008 6:00AM
Murray, who has supported Bill and Hillary Clinton since 1991, said these are tough times for people like him who are in the Clinton camp but want to unify the party.

"The sense is, absent some catastrophic event that would take place in this campaign, it's going to be very difficult to see a path to victory for Hillary given what happened" Tuesday, Murray said.
http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080508/NEWS02/805080437

Sun May 11, 2008

Analysis: Could Clinton land the VP nomination?

Several Clinton associates say there is still a ray of hope among some in her campaign: that a "catastrophic" revelation about Obama might make it possible for her to win the presidential nomination. But barring that, Hillary and Bill Clinton recognize that her candidacy is being abandoned and rejected by superdelegates whom she once expected to win over and that, even if she were to win the popular vote in combined primary states, she will almost certainly be denied the nomination.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/10/bernstein.clinton/index.html?section=cnn_latest

CBSNews.com Reports: N.Y. Senator Now Faces Nearly Impossible Odds To Capturing Democratic Nomination

May 7, 2008

Clinton's Path To Victory Slipping Away
There is one scenario which does work for Clinton and that’s a massive movement of superdelegates leaving Obama and supporting her. The party leaders could do that, but it would take some unforeseen development in the race between now and the convention for them to do so. Obama, in some way, would have to be rendered so unelectable that the party rejects him at the convention. That’s not much to hang a hat on but it’s starting to look like her best option.

And even that might not be a viable option, said Joe Trippi. “Even if the catastrophic thing existed or happened, if she were perceived to have caused it, I think it would end her campaign too,” Trippi said. I don’t think there’s any way now for her to gain the nomination. She’s at the point now where if she tries to make a case against Obama, it will actually speed up superdelegates joining his cause just to shut the campaign down.”

But Trippi notes that the Obama campaign and Democratic leaders are still likely to give Clinton the room she needs to go forward on her own terms, provided that she does so in a positive manner. “I think there’s lots of tolerance for her going on, running the table into the convention and having a presence there,” he said. “But if she actually tries to compete in the trenches for the nomination in a way that looks like it’s damaging the nominee … I don’t think there will be any tolerance for that at all.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/07/politics/main4078586.shtml

[Life Long Dem]

74. You know...

It's mistake after mistake. Not just in the election process, but with the Iraq war also.

And then after the wrong has been shed on us, she comes along to hold our hands while she tries to right the wrong with us.

We want someone with more foresight.

She's not finished fixing her mistake with the rules agreement yet.

And are Hillary supporters going to hold with her still?

[apocalypsehow]

76. She didn't apologize. n/t.

[City Lights]

77. I disagree, cali.

The "apology" she gave was a non-apology apology. She regrets that people found it offensive.

I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and in particular the Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever," the former first lady said.

edited for clarity

[IDemo]

78. There are two wrong trains of thought going on this

First: it's ridiculous for anyone to suggest that she is, or would, plot for an assassination. The commentary so popular on DU, that "he'd better hire three food tasters if she is the VP", is absurd.

But, that said, it is equally absurd to give her or anyone running for the highest office in the land a pass on displays of poor judgment such as this and the obliterate comment.

[Shine]

81. I totally agree, cali.

let's move on and stop all the drama. :eyes:

[book_worm]

82. the more I hear about it the more I think she has real problems

and historian Doug Brinkley is putting it well with Keith right now.

[totodeinhere]

83. I firmly believe that in her sick mind she feels such an entitlement to the presidency...

that she really wouldn't mind if Obama were dead. And that's another reason why Obama should not pick her for VP under any circumstances. I won't say it but you know where I am going with that.

[eridani]

202. I think it's more that she's hoping for a really big scandal myself n/t

[Kahuna]

85. She didn't apologize to the right person and "qualified" her apology

to the Kennedys. Sheesh. If she had made a proper apology I could overlook her "gaffe" (and you know what a "gaffe" really is). But she didn't.

[BeyondGeography]

86. Douglas Brinkley just said her namby-pamby "apology" wasn't nearly enough

and she needs to do something "emotive" tomorrow to start undoing some of the permanent damage to her reputation that this remark has already done.

He's right.

[CaptJasHook]

87. Murderous Psycho, no. Fear-mongering, Historical Truth Abuser, yes.

[populistdriven]

88. she's a murderous psycho

[NatBurner]

90. i want her to come out triumphant somehow

i mean, at least go out with some kind of moral, noble high note

but she keeps disappointing

and that apology was hardly sincere

would she just acknowledge her fuck-ups? just for a change of pace, maybe?

[Medusa]

94. That ship officially sailed.

TODAY. If she had any decency at all, she'd remove herself from this race NOW. But she doesn't have decency of any kind or she wouldn't still be in this race.

[neverforget]

92. She didn't apologize to the Obama's which means the apology was

only half done. Can she utter the words "I'm sorry" to Obama? :shrug:

[SoonerPride]

93. She did not apologize.

It was one of those "I'sorry if people misunderstoodf what I said" or "I's sorry if anyone was offende" non-apologies.

[rug]

96. K&R

[durrrty libby]

97. She stated a historical fact and one reason why it is dumb to front-load primaries

in a long primary season

She has nothing to apologize for.

The hysterical ninnies never disappoint with their idiotic assumptions

[WinkyDink]

212. Oh, like we FORGOT Bobby was SHOT?? Please. And it wasn't her PLACE to so "state".

[durrrty libby]

228. Hate to tell you honey, millions of new voters don't know

diddly squat about it.Millions of people weren't even born yet. Imagine that?:eyes:

Fucking BOBots are so pathetic and inane. The worship of someone with no
accomplishments, and whose tiny paper trail magically disappeared is beyond stupid

What a bunch of fucking ignorant losers

One would think that a person of your age wouldn't fall for empty suit hero worship

Oh wait you're probably a Clay Aiken groupie too. BO is just like American Idol. Millions
of fools voting for what turns out to be a Milli Vanilli

[durrrty libby]

248. Why do people post while impaired? It is sooo sad

[democrattotheend]

238. Ironically, her supporters pushed the front-loaded calendar

When McAuliffe was still in charge at the DNC he designed the front-loaded calendar to help her. That's also why Granholm moved up the Michigan primary. When Dean took over the DNC he tried to make the calendar a little bit less front-loaded but much of the groundwork was already in place.

[cornermouse]

98. Can you see yet that more than a few of them are out of control?

Literally.

[BlooInBloo]

99. (a) It's not a "fuck up" if you do it 3 times....

(b) Apologies don't have conditions,
(c) Obama didn't even get a non-apology.

[Barrymores Ghost]

That sums it up, I'd say. n/t

[smoogatz]

100. The problem is that she told the truth.

One of the reasons she's staying in the race is the off-chance that something bad, including assassination, could happen to Obama. Which is pretty much the definition of political opportunism at its worst. The outrage is the result of a lot of DUers darker suspicions about Hillary having been suddenly, entirely and graphically confirmed.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vi5]

104. I'm sorry but you're far too forgiving...

I haven't gotten all breathless and worked up over every stupid assed comment she's made. But you accumulate these all, and couple this with all the talk of waiting it out to see if "something" happens to Obama and it's just over the top and it's unforgivable. She's a horrible, self centered human being looking out only for herself and her own power grab. And I'm tired of just saying "Well....maybe it's not so bad...maybe she didn't mean it."

Screw that. I want her out of democratic party politics. Now and forever. She's shown what she's about and what she's made of and what she's willing to do and say to keep her own power and control and it's at the expense of all that is decent and respectable about the democratic party.

[zulchzulu]

105. She needs to drop out or get censured

What she has said repeatedly (other times besides today's episode) is beyond reproach and taste.

She should either drop out NOW or be censured and then forced to drop out. She IS SCUM.

[Imagevision]

106. Obama had her nailed when he said; "Hillary will be Bushlite..."

[Barrymores Ghost]

107. cali, if it please the court...

...this is not the first time she's raised this spectre. Now, it didn't generate much flap back in march, but given the racial overtones that this campaign season has taken on, wouldn't you, as her campaign adviser, suggest that she refrain from alluding to assassinated political figures as a rationale for staying in a race? I mean, for fuck sake -- there's saying the occasional stupid thing, then there's making it a whistle-stop mantra that you chant, over and over.

The point is, this is a judgmental lapse of the highest order, and shows that she's prone to be a complete dumb-fuck under pressure.

Frankly, I've had my fill of this.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

109. I'm going to be charitable. you're a recent arrival in these parts

don't call me a name again. Your ad hominem attack doesn't add to your argument, and it's against the rules. Don't repeat your mistake.

[MJJP21]

112. Bull crap

The only thing we now know is how Hillary thinks. This should be enough for anyone to change their allegience to Barack and show Hillary the door. This is not the first time this inference to something happening to Barack has happened. People show their true colors under stress and we certainly don't need the likes of Hillary at the helm with comments like these.

[Ichingcarpenter]

113. Sorry you are wrong.... it was no apology and inexcusable n/t

[CreekDog]

114. she didn't apologize, no "sorry" or the word "apologize"

i think apologies as litmus tests are bogus, you are correct --it's stupid.

that said, that kind of apology is one where a kid is begging for their mouth to be washed out with soap.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

115. I think it's being blown out of proportion, but her "apology" was

I don't think she meant what is being attributed to her. That said, this is the third time she's referenced RFK's assassination and I think she is trying to keep the *what if* scenario open to the SDs. If not that, then I do no know why she would bring up the word "assassination" at all.

[Arkana]

116. I agree with you on everything except the apology.

She did not apologize--"I regret that my remarks offended some people" is basically saying "You wimps are too thin-skinned".

I don't think Hillary's a murderous nutcase either--but the severity of what she said is massive on a whole different level.

[catgirl]

117. Fucked up? Or all-telling?

She meant what she said- period. There IS NO MISINTERPRETING THIS.

[cyndensco]

165. I agree.

She knew exactly what she was saying. Probably did not know this time it would be noticed...

[BklynChick]

119. it wasn't a mistake and she didn't apologize. period.

[SeaLyons]

120. Thanks, Cali

[Mz Pip]

121. It was a non apology

which made her comments even more objectionable.

I do not think Hillary is really harboring some kind of secret Obama death wish. I'm not a fan of Hillary but I can't go that far.

But what she said was so over the top and her apology was so not an apology that I just wish she'd get off the stage.

If this were an opera, it would be one of the truly tragic kind.

KO's comments were over the top but that said it really is timne for Hillary to get off the stage.

[Imagevision]

122. Hillary and her supporters are R-E-D-I-C-U-L-O-U-S

[cornermouse]

123. Your statement is ridiculous.

and not at all meticulous.

[smiley_glad_hands]

124. Respectfully, I disagree.

She knew exactly what she said. She didn't apologize. She is pathetic and so is anyone who still supports her.

[Imagevision]

125. She didn't apologize she merely stated no intention of disrepect was intentional

[CakeGrrl]

126. Disagree. She didn't apologize, especially not to the person who deserved it most

And I won't give her a pass for "being tired". She's in this of her own volition. This is not an isolated mention of 'assassination', and it's not to be taken lightly when one of her campaign's favorite themes was "anything can happen" in response to increasingly diminishing chances at getting the nomination, contrasted by Terry McAuliffe's bizarre confidence that Hillary WOULD emerge as the nominee. Shit adds up and doesn't look good. They're too incompetent to even prevent the appearance of suspicion.

[Major Hogwash]

127. No, there's no excuse for it, cali. She is not presidential material.

She's not even vice-presidential material.
She's not even Senatorial material.

It's over for Hillary's career.
You just don't get it.

[KAZ]

132. She's in way over her head.

[Major Hogwash]

144. Hillary is drowning in her own self-pity, someone throw her an anchor.

She lost, has no exit strategy, and now this.

This is not only disgusting, it's tragic to drag the spector of assassination up in order to say that's why you're hanging around, refusing to go away.

Come Monday, I expect about 50 super delegates to respond by endorsing Obama.

[KAZ]

147. Not this Monday. It's Memorial Day. Though that might be apropos.

:)

[Warren DeMontague]

128. She fucked up. She apologized, sort of. I'm sorry, but after 3 months of manufactured outrage

over shit like "bitter" and arugula and saying unplanned pregnancies might be considered "punishment"...

After "His pastor said WHAT?!?!" and "his wife said WHAT??!?" and "He MUST RENOUNCE these horrible words that, uh, someone else said"...

After "We're just concerned that the GOP will throw this slime at him, so we're throwing it first".

After "White people won't vote for him"

After the only white people who will vote for him are Latte Liberals and San Francisco (wink wink) liberals and elitists and birkenstock trust-fund never-worked-a-day liberals...

After "he's not a muslim.. as far as I know"

After cynically turning her campaign, in recent weeks, into a "count the votes" :eyes: crusade against rules that her staffers enforced (and some of them wrote) .. rules that she previously had no problem with...

I'm sorry, but Hillary Clinton does not GET any more free passes. Fuck that. Yeah, she fucked up. Yeah, like I said- she (sort of) apologized. Good.

Now she can do what she should have done a while ago, and GET OUT OF THE GOD-DAMN RACE.

[Barrymores Ghost]

140. I'd say you've captured all of the basics, here. n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

130. K & R.

thank you, cali.

:kick:

[Timberside]

131. She better hope that some nut doesn't think she was sending a request for help

She wasn't just politically crass. It was disgustingly irresponsible. She may have just put Obama's life in real danger.

[mod mom]

133. this wasn't the first time she referenced this (if you haven't watched KO-please do)

[against all enemies]

134. You not being outraged is fucking ridiculas. Join the Republicans.

[Barrymores Ghost]

139. You don't know who your talking to, and you owe an apology.

I don't care who you think YOU are, that was uncalled for, Simpy.

[against all enemies]

149. I'm sorry Hillary is an asshole. There's my apolopgy. Where's Hillary's?

[WinkyDink]

215. Excuse me? Maybe the OP doesn't know whom SHE is talking to, and needs to re-think it.

Didn't know we had to bow down to certain posters.

[jefferson_dem]

135. Nope.

The comment was worse than stupid. She didn't apologize. It wouldn't matter to me if she did.

Sorry, cali. We disagree.

[T Monk]

138. she's always been a repug operative and a phony feminist shitcan yourself hil

[dchill]

141. The outrage is NOT ridiculous.

Ask Keith. Sorry, I disagree with you on this.

[RichardRay]

142. Once again, never ascribe to malice that which can be explained

by mere incompetence.

She is not so evil a person as to have calculated that effect, she just wasn't equipped to do any better. If I thought she were doing it on purpose I'd think she was pretty good at being covert. As it is I think she's just getting tired.

[Timberside]

143. No White House or Blair House for you now Hillary

Better tell Bill to forget moving out of Chappaqua.

[rucky]

145. She knows how to press people's buttons.

It's getting really really really annoying. And this particular statement touched off a tragic scenario running in the back of everybody's minds. Said so matter-of-factly like that is just plain creepy.

If this were an isolated incident, I'd say folks are overreacting. In context of her other trollish behavior, and people have reached their breaking point. It's healthy.

[rzemanfl]

148. Put the shoe on the other foot. What if Obama said something

similar about her? Keith Olbermann is right and much less profane than I.

[jeffrey_X]

150. It was beyond stupid. It was irresponsible and calculating

KILLARY: GET OUT OF THE RACE NOW; YOU ARE A DISGRACE TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!

[shomino]

151. I agree, in my opinion it was not meant maliciously, but...

It's hard to understand the reasoning behind making such a comparison as it's probably going to sink her campaign, or what is left of it.

[woo me with science]

152. Yep.

But outrage is what we do...

[workinclasszero]

156. Bullshit Hillary is hanging in there hopin one of her hard working white

cultists takes out Obama!

The scum didn't even mention Obama's name when she "apologized" for her murderous comments!

[Auntie Bush]

157. Thanks cali...that took nerve! Gets pretty hot in here if you

try to defend Clinton. Nice to hear a voice of reason try to calm all the hysteria.

[AZBlue]

158. How can you apologize when you don't even say the person's name whom you've wronged?

It wasn't a mistake and it wasn't an apology.
She will NEVER been forgiven.

[nashville_brook]

160. the consummate political professional falls on her sword. her campaign has lost all perspective.

if this is the dialogue within her campaign -- to stay in thru June hoping for a disaster to befall her opponent -- then it shows that her campaign has lost all perspective. i can totally imagine her strategy team using this RFK scenario as a metaphor of "it's not over till it's over."

they aren't psychos. it's actually worse than that. they've become caricatures of themselves.

[RBInMaine]

161. The comments were BAD, and the "apology" was weak. She needs to make a much better statement.

[swishyfeet]

162. I agree cali

Sure, what she said was stupid. Obama occasionally says things he regrets and we laugh off the Hillary supporters' faux outrage.

How many people here defended the Clinton's through all that Vince Foster crap? Do we really think Hillary is now calling for Obama's assassination?

I want her to go as much as anyone, but people here are losing it.

[Whisp]

163. this one does not near equate 'bitter' or all that Obama crap.

wake up.
reverse it and see.

it was not a mistake, it was a dogwhistle called more than one time. she's desparate and dangerous and insane about her being The One. but this skinny black guy who talks the talk and walks the walk came out of nowhere. And her handlers are not amused. They are livid - how did you let this one get out of hand, Hillary? you had Everything going for you, and you fucked up royally by opening your stupid yap in stupid ways.

[msallied]

166. I'd advise to not give her a free pass on this.

It was damaging, thoughtless, and craven. There is no defending it. PEople all around the world are outraged. She can go fuck herself as far as I'm concerned. The era of dipshit politicians is coming to an end, and that means I am giving her no quarter from this point forward.

[AtomicKitten]

170. you are wrong on this

tragically, unbelievably insensitively wrong

[Zachstar]

174. Amen!!

[Hutzpa]

171. For people like yourself

that have a cork stuck inside their ears heres why her statement is
flaring temperaments;

James McDougal - Clinton 's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.

2 -Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown . The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.

3- Vince Foster - Former White House counselor and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock 's Rose Law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.

4- Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the air Traffic controller committed suicide.

5- C. Victor Raiser II- Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992
6-Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock , September 1992. Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted adviser".

7-Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

8-Jerry Parks -Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock . Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock . Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton . He allegedly threatened to
9-James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas

10-James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

11-Kathy Ferguson- Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

12-Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiance of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiance, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiance.
13-Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton 's friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

14-Florence Martin - Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.

15- Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

16-Paula Grober - Clinton 's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992 . She died in a one car accident.

17-Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation

18- Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

19-Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington , Virginia apartment balcony August 15, 1993 . He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.

20-Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29,
21-Charles Meissner -Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

22-Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton 's advisory council personally treated Clinton 's mother, stepfather and brother.

23-Barry Seal -Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas , death was no accident.

24-Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.

25-Stanley Huggins - Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.

26- Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

27-Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

[eridani]

206. Jeebus! Can we quit with the wingnut talking points?

Bad enough when Clinton uses RW frames and talking points. Do we have to start in on it as well?

[Hutzpa]

That is not a right wing talking point

that is what a Clinton surrogate would say, distort and disparage
opinions about the Clinotns.

[Hutzpa]

227. That is not a right wing talking point

that is what a Clinton surrogate would say, distort and disparage
opinions about the Clinotns.

[PurityOfEssence]

172. Obama seems like a nice enough guy, but why does he attract so many oblivious asshole supporters?

She's citing two examples of the nomination not being sewed up by this point of the year. There's nothing the least bit sinister about it at all. This is ridiculous.

The antagonistic and aggressive unscrupulousness of many of the extremists in the Obama camp is very alarming.

The sanctimony is bad enough, but the increasingly hostile solipsism is serious trouble.

(edited for grammar)

[Zachstar]

173. Take a hike Cali!

I'm sick of these topics from Obama supporters trying to act all faux nice because of some fantasy of unity.

The only thing ridiculous is topics like these.

[ShortnFiery]

176. She did NOT apologize. It's a mistake of HISTORIC proportion.

THIS TIME HRC CAN'T SPIN HER WAY OUT! :nuke:

[kwassa]

178. Nah, it's trivial, no one will remember in a week or two.

[ShortnFiery]

180. Wanna bet? Not this time ... FINALLY HRC will have to take TRUE responsibility. eom

[WinkyDink]

218. HAHA! Right. THIS is, no pun intended, HRC's campaign's death knell. This was the last straw.

[durrrty libby]

251. Are you drunk right now?

[durrrty libby]

259. The elderly must be very careful with alcohol consumption

[jsmirman]

179. Cali, I think you may want to rethink this

some of the outrage has gone too far, but the facts show that she has gone to this well before and that she is unwell and unfit and exactly the kind of loathesome human being who could have such an ugly thought ricocheting through her fevered mind.

She doesn't want Obama dead. But she's thought about the possibility more than anyone should be comfortable with. She's a lousy human to begin with and now she's fully lost her way.

[AlCzervik]

182. maybe yoiur message is right but your delivery is old and tired, your lecture series

is just tiring.

[JCMach1]

183. Exactly, she spoke the unspeakable and sounded like an idiot...

I accuse her of diarrhea of the mouth... now please, please get over it.

[msallied]

184. Wow. I bet a lot of people thought that about Dubya at first.

That he just spoke without thinking but that he couldn't possibly be the second coming of Satan.

I'm sick and tired of the fucking enablers around here.

[Justitia]

185. Defending the indefensible is FUCKING RIDICULOUS. You sound as mentally sick as your candidate.

Political murder of the only person between Hillary & the White House and you think it's no big deal??

It sounds like you'd make excuses for ANYTHING and that is revolting.

[Douglas Carpenter]

189. Cali is supporting Sen. Obama now and has been very strong in her criticism of Sen. Clinton

And the same with me. I don't like Sen. Clinton very much anymore. But its kind of ridiculous to suggest that there was some kind of murderous intent in Sen. Clinton's very, very stupid comments.

[Justitia]

190. Sorry, I haven't seen that at all in her posts, and this one is particularly egregious.

And while you may convince yourself that Hillary Clinton means nothing when she references political murder of a Democratic presidential candidate - MORE THAN ONCE, as her justification for her losing campaign, I am NOT AT ALL as convinced. I think she is seriously mentally unstable.

[dailykoff]

195. Agreed.

This is a serious threat and needs to be dealt with seriously. :mad:

[musicblind]

203. Cali has been for a very long time a very very vocal Obama supporter.

She has been VERY hard on Clinton as well. She is just being honest about how she and many others feel on this particular issue. It was an awful and stupid thing to say. But as Anderson Cooper said tonight, few people ACTUALLY believe she meant anything malicious in the statements.

[cboy4]

217. Calling another DUer mentally sick? Remember what I

told you about your self esteem issues Justitia.

And here's a perfect example .. you're calling your own people that name.

Red flag alert.

[fortyfeetunder]

186. She said this sh!t twice.

So she is obsessed with getting the nomination....but she didn't have to say a goddamn thing about assasination.

Like if something did happen all eyes will be on her....

[Douglas Carpenter]

188. I agree. But this is how politics is played these days.

I guess its more entertaining than discussing issues.

Although, given that this is how the game is played, I hope this hastens the day when Sen. Clinton leaves the race.

[TwilightGardener]

191. Nope--sorry. She says what she intends to say. She's as politically astute

as anyone can be. And she repeated herself, in case we didn't hear her reference the first two or three times. She chose her words for a reason. They weren't to merely highlight that sometimes primary races go into extra innings. They were to point out that sometimes...shit happens.

[dailykoff]

193. Grow a conscience .

This kind of idiot cheerleading is deplorable.

[MadBadger]

198. WTF?

[musicblind]

204. wtf? Cali has been and is a very very vocal Obama supporter and

has been very hard on Sen. Clinton in the past. She is just stating how she feels in this issue.

[dailykoff]

205. Moral cowardice is deplorable whatever the pretense.

And political expediency is not exactly an extenuating circumstance.

[Alexander]

196. She said "I'm sorry if people were offended". I have to disagree here.

[VotesForWomen]

207. they're insane. they have become completely unhinged.

[Catherina]

208. It's hard to take you seriously. I think you just like being contrary. n/t

[cboy4]

214. !!!!

;)

[WinkyDink]

209. No, your anti-outrage is ridiculous. Are you completely unaware of our violent past?

Are you completely unaware of the sub-conscious?

Are you completely unaware of the truths told in the greatest literature; e.g., "Macbeth"?
"I have no spur
To prick the sides of my intent, but only
Vaulting ambition, which o'erleaps itself
And falls on th'other." (1.7.)

No, you are not completely unaware.

[intaglio]

210. Sorry, cali, but I disagree

at the very least it was a "Henry II" moment.

Her "apology" was terrible and is right up there with the "not Muslim - as far as I know" comment. On the bright side she did equate Obama with RFK!

[backscatter712]

211. Cali, you're a great fellow Democrat, but I have to disagree.

Hillary's comment was way over the line, and her half-assed apology just doesn't cut it.

She screwed up BAD. She should not have even broached the subject of assassination. Keith Olbermann had it right - with all the history this country has of assassinations, her bringing it up in a political statement was waaaaaaay past inappropriate.

[psychopomp]

213. Just more of her "spade work"

Nothing to get upset about... :sarcasm:

[MethuenProgressive]

237. Find a dictionary.

Have someone read you the definition.

[indimuse]

219. Bravo cali!

Sanity! I'm in complete disbelief...;(

[WinkyDink]

220. Haha. Have you read her latest OP?

[barack the house]

223. I know if she said sorry it is time to move on. In Ted's endorsement of of Obama he said she was a

friend.

[Perry Logan]

225. It's a tempest without a teapot. The charges make sense only to people who already hate Hillary.

Obama looks to be headed for victory. Why, then, are the Obamites still having a cow every five minutes? Shouldn't they be kicking back and laughing at Hillary's gaffes?

Hell, I'm having ten times as much fun as the Obamites, even with the whole world shouting at Hillary!

It's as if the Obama supporters were trying to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that they're bonkers. That's why I always bring my tranquilizer gun when I visit DU.

What other senator and serious White House contender would be likened by National Public Radio's political editor, Ken Rudin, to the demoniac, knife-wielding stalker played by Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction? Or described as "a fucking whore" by Randi Rhodes, one of the foremost personalities of the supposedly liberal Air America? Would Carl Bernstein (of Woodward and Bernstein fame) ever publicly declare his disgust about a male candidate's "thick ankles"? Could anybody have envisaged that a website set up specifically to oppose any other candidate would be called Citizens United Not Timid? (We do not need an acronym for that.)
...

Never before have the US media taken it upon themselves to proclaim the victor before the primary contests are over or the choice of all the super-delegates is known, and the result was that the media's tidal wave of sexism became self-fulfilling: Americans like to back winners, and polls immediately showed dramatic surges of support for Obama. A few brave souls had foreseen the merciless media campaign: "The press will savage her no matter what," predicted the Washington Post's national political correspondent, Dana Milbank, last December. "They really have their knives out for her, there's no question about it."

Here we come to the crunch. Hillary Clinton (along with her husband) is being universally depicted as a loathsome racist and negative campaigner, not so much because of anything she has said or done, but because the overwhelmingly pro-Obama media - consciously or unconsciously - are following the agenda of Senator Barack Obama and his chief strategist, David Axelrod, to tear to pieces the first serious female US presidential candidate in history.

"What's particularly saddening," says Paul Krugman, professor of economics and international affairs at Princeton and a rare dissenting voice from the left as a columnist in the New York Times, "is the way many Obama supporters seem happy with the . . . way pundits and some news organisations treat any action or statement by the Clintons, no matter how innocuous, as proof of evil intent." Despite widespread reporting to the contrary, Krugman believes that most of the "venom" in the campaign "is coming from supporters of Obama".

http://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2008/05/obama-clinton-vote-usa-media

[Raster]

230. Some tempest... some teapot.

[Political Heretic]

226. She issued a non-apology apology. And its not "OUR" outrage, its in every paper and has gone Global

Sorry that she screwed up, but she did, and her unwillingness to actually apologize instead of basically saying, hey IF YOU were offended than I'm sorry that YOU were offended is a problem.

[NorthCarolina]

229. She Apologized??? I don't even recall hearing Obama mentioned in her supposed apology

explain how you rationalize to yourself that she sufficiently "apologized"...I'd love to hear your justification.

[Marrah_G]

231. Thank you

Good post and the responses have shown exactly who needs to go on my ignore list. Sorry you are getting bashed by your own sides for actually looking at things rationally.

[Overseas]

232. It was so close in time to the super-dumb Huckabee comments

She should have instinctively cut herself off from the RFK reference she has used before because Huckabee's grotesque NRA convention gaffe should have been so fresh in her mind. It is still fresh in mine.

[Skrelnick]

233. So if Obama "speculated" about the possibility of Clinton developing breast cancer in June

...would you not be outraged?

I don't hear Huckabee or Ron Paul "speculating" about McCain having a stroke or heart attack in June, as justification for them staying in the race.

Probably because they, unlike Clinton, have some sort of inner monologue advising them not to say INCREDIBLY STUPID AND INSENSITIVE THINGS.

[IndianaGreen]

234. Hillary did not apologize!

May 23, 2008, 6:30 pm

Say What? Hillary Clinton Does it Again
By The Editorial Board

We have no idea what, exactly, Hillary Clinton was thinking when she referred to the assassination of Bobby Kennedy in explaining her decision to keep on campaigning when it looks like there is virtually no hope of her winning the Democratic nomination.
(We’ve supported her decision to do so. This is a democracy, after all.)

But she could, at least, have apologized.

Instead, she issued one of those tedious non-apology apologies in which it sounds like the person who is being offended is somehow at fault: “I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation, and particularly for the Kennedy family was in any way offensive.”
If?

Is it even possible that Mrs. Clinton thinks someone out there was not offended by her remark, Kennedy relative, Obama relative, or just plain folks?

Mrs. Clinton tried to excuse her inexcusable outburst by saying she was distracted by the shock of the news of Senator Edward Kennedy’s malignant brain tumor. But there was something familiar about what she said, and thanks to Ben Smith of Politico, we remembered what it was. Mrs. Clinton said basically the same thing in an interview with Time on March 6:

“I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A.”

http://theboard.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/23/say-what-hillary-clinton-does-it-again/?hp

[MessiahRp]

235. When did she apologize to Obama?

Since I don't recall that happening and he was the real aim of her comment.

Look Cali, I usually agree wholeheartedly with your posts but here we're going to agree to disagree. She brought up the spectre of Assassination and has done it four times in total. That's not a one time mistake. The only reason she even put out her half assed, well maybe I'm sorry to the Kennedy family apology is because the media finally paid attention to it.

I find there to be incredible gall for her to say in her apology that this came about because 'the Kennedys have been on my mind' when she first made this statement in March. That tells me that this was no gaffe, it was a calculated talking point expressing in terms of desperation, the only path she has to get into the White House and maybe subconsciously hoping it will come true.

There is no defending her for this. She knew how this could be received when she started reciting this talking point in March... WELL BEFORE Teddy's tumor got on her mind.

Rp

[MethuenProgressive]

236. She did not "fuck up," nothing she said nothing about "wanting BO killed"

This is Karl Rove/Donna Brazile manufactured sewage.
And DU's Obama Followers are up to their ears in it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

239. thank you for your reasoning

[Zhade]

240. Saying it AT LEAST THREE TIMES makes it intentional.

This was no gaffe.

Now I don't think she wants him dead or anything. But she clearly meant to make this reference.

[cottonseed]

244. She fucked up. She didn't apologize. And the outrage here has merit.

** She made a HUGE mistake. Doesn't matter if she'd been "freakin' campaigning all day". This is the big time, and it's one big mistake too many in my own and it seems more and more people's opinions.

** Very few people are attributing "deep dark ugly motives" to Hillary. They're incensed at the absolute stupidity of her comments. Alluding to assassination as a reason to continue campaigning is ludicrous.

** Hillary has done and continues to do things I think are wrong and harmful to the party.

** She did NOT apologize. She made a statement. That statement was not directed at those effected most by her ill conceived and stupid comments.

** Hillary shouldn't be accused of being a murderous psycho, I give you that, but she is murdering her campaign's chances. It's actually DOA from this point forward.

[JVS]

245. Cali, you might want to tell mods to lock this thread or come back and explain that you've recanted

[JVS]

246. Cali's recanting. Read here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6106278&mesg_id=6106278

[Honeycombe8]

247. She didn't really apologize. She did the standard "if someone was offended....."

But no apology. And the offense she was referring to was referring to any offense to the Kennedy family, not Obama.

Clear enuf?

[dsomuah]

249. I'm an Obama supporter and I this should stop

It's absurd to suggest that Hillary wants Obama dead, and unless you actually believe she wants Obama dead it's absurd to keep dwelling on this issue.

My advice to the Hillary campaign is this tho: Quit accusing the Obama campaign of stirring the pot. It's obvious that it's Obama supporters (As much as I am ashamed to say it), and the Obama camp who are making a lot of noise over this.

But accusing the Obama camp of stirring the pot does nothing but keep her comments in the news. You have one week till May 20th, is this really how you want to spend it, trading back and forths with the Obama campaign?

Obviously the trust level between the Obama and Hillary camps has reached some dangerous lows. I find it hard to believe that some of my fellow Obama supporters claim they want Obama to win, but yet cling to this divisive rhetoric that is driving the party apart. We have won the nomination. Instead of focusing on what Hillary is doing and whether she should be dropping out, we should be focusing on re-embracing Hillary supporters and defeating McCain. If you are a true Obama supporter, then you will let go of your pathetic litte ego and take the high road, because you know that is what your candidate needs the most. By criticizing Hillary and calling on her to drop out, all you do is help contribute to the rift in our party.

And BTW stop using the argument "She started it" to justify some of these petty attacks. We aren't 5 anymore.

[woolldog]

250. It is not up to you to dictate how people should feel about those commnts.

[Stephanie]

252. You're a concern troll.

You do it over and over.

[foo_bar]

254. I think cali might be sincere, but the concern constitutes a form of reactionary sexism

Maybe it's transference or whatever on my part, but I still have ridiculous arguments with my gf who voted for Obama but nonetheless offers knee-jerk rationalizations of Hillary's behavior before even finding out what Hillary's behavior was. At times I think the Venn diagram of "humanist" and "feminist" is two circles barely touching, but it's better to have conflicted Obama supporters than not to (Annie Hall: "because we need the eggs...").

[friedgreentomatoes]

253. I was wondering about something..

...let's say instead of what she did say, Hillary said something in the lines of "my husband wasn't the nominee till June in 1992, and RFK was also campaigning in June 1968". would there have been any less outrage? wouldn't everybody then come out screaming "yes, RFK was then assassinated, so is she hinting BO also stands the same chance?"

what I mean is, this scenario would have been possible if she had not uttered the word "ASSASSINATIO".

Looks like HRC is getting up on the wrong side of the bed, everyday, now, for the past few months.

JMO

[Beacool]

255. I'm glad I was away and I missed the usual hysterics by his supporters.

Yeah, Hillary made a comment about Bobby Kennedy and of course it had to mean that she wanted Obama killed because in the sick little world of some people everything revolves around Obama.

Wow, scary people........

:crazy:

[WinkyDink]

257. You're late to the OP's recant, I see.

[Beacool]

258. I was luckily away for the weekend and missed the usual rantings

against the Clintons. Same B.S., different comment to be outraged about.........

:eyes: