"It's about time somebody shot that son-of-a-bitch!" (Comment by a "Democrat" in November 1963)

[TahitiNut]

I was a student at Spring Hill College in Mobile, Alabama, for the 1963-64 school year. It was a Friday. After lunch, I had ROTC drill. I went to the ROTC building and found the Master Sergeant in tears. (I was stunned.) President Kennedy had been shot in Dallas. Drill was canceled. So, I decided to walk off campus over to my father's barber shop. They had a television and I wanted to find out what was happening. Shortly after I arrived, one of the "good ol' boy" Southern Democrats said that. Heads nodded sagely. I left.

I'd been a cadet at the Coast Guard Academy in 1961-63. At the end of the 1962 Summer Training Cruise, we (aboard the USCGC Eagle) were ordered back early to allow President Kennedy to review the ship at the Naval Yards in Washington, D.C. I was a sideboy. I was the last of four on his left as he came aboard the ship. I watched the twinkle in his eye and the twitch at the corner of his mouth as he slowed and "tested the bosun's lungs." I'd been forewarned, so I was able to stifle a chuckle and maintain decorum. A very memorable moment.

Assassination. Medgar Evers. JFK. MLK. RFK. That's the reality of my early 20's ... a young adult's "coming of age."

It's not a joke. It's not a good reason (or even a bad reason) to be an "understudy" in a campaign, with even the SLIGHTEST expectation of benefiting by such an atrocity. The specter of assassination is not academic to me. It is not merely something in the history books to be learned for the test and forgotten about. It is not something that only happens to people I've never seen or been around. It's personal. It's deeply personal.

I've been in the company of those who took satisfaction from such atrocities. It's not a "someone, somewhere" kind of thing ... to be shrugged off with a banal and pretentious observation that "there are wackos in the world and that's the way it is." Not to me.

Many here are so young and inexperienced that they have no comprehension of how "divisive" things can be in the "Democratic Party." Old farts like me remember it like it was last week.

[populistdriven]

1. That is perhaps the only time I would resort to violence, to hear such a thing

If Obama is... I don't even want to think about it...

[TahitiNut]

4. I was holding back tears. My gut was in pain.

I was (I admit it) confused. The world was tilting. THIS was a President I'd been next to ... within 18" ... close enough to marvel at his shave and haircut and fit of his suit at the collar. Close enoough to see the humor of an ex-Naval officer on board a Coast Guard ship. He became a real human being to me in that moment, not just someone in the newspapers. It was a very difficult thing for me to get my 20-year-old head around. He said "Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country." I went to the Coast Guard Academy ... a 'service' I regarded as honorable. Saving lives. Operating lighthouses and maintaining aids to navigation. Not just killing people. It meant a lot at the time ... to a kid from a working class family.

I could only leave. I just couldn't fight.

[populistdriven]

14. at 20 I would have had the same reaction as you, add 20 yrs to that and now I know there are lines

I will not walk away from if they are crossed.

god that must have been gut wrenching

[apocalypsehow]

2. Powerful OP - K & R.

:thumbsup:

[Swamp Rat]

3. k&r

:grr:

[H2O Man]

5. Nominated.

The timing makes it worse, in my mind; the news about Ted, and the 40 years with TFK.

Thank you dor sharing a personal story of how it effects you.

[TahitiNut]

15. My recently deceased uncle knew Bobby Kennedy.

My uncle was in Governor 'Soapy' Williams' cabinet ... as State Insurance commissioner and Liquor COntrol Commissioner. He was a New Deal Democrat. It was his RELIGION ... his life. He was very active in the Democratic Party - never missed a "Jeff-Jack Dinner." On two or three occasions, he met with Bobby on various matters. (He also met with Jimmy Hoffa - another story.)

My uncle and I could share stories and chat almost endlessly about those experiences. We'd argue. We'd disagree. We'd share. (I've been an adamantly independent liberal all my life.)

Sometimes it's not just a dramatic story. It touches lives. It touches those most who have had the chance to see these people, not just as politicians, but as real human beings. I think we lose sight of that all too easily.

I cringe - and get cramps in my gut - to contemplate the 'unmentionable.' I'm no groupie. Never have been. Never will be. I don't do "pep rallies."

But ...

:cry:

[cliffordu]

19. Cue twilight zone music....My stepfather was a union guy from

a paper mill in California and he met Hoffa when I was a kid...to see about his union going Teamsters...

[mnhtnbb]

29. I worked with an RN in Los Angeles who was on duty in the ER at Good Samaritan the night Bobby

was shot. You cannot possibly believe what it was like. He was transferred to Good Sam
where he had surgery before dying.

[Major Hogwash]

6. Like my mom said, "It's not history for us, it's a part of our life."

She is 78 years old now and she said she couldn't believe it when the radio said that FDR had died. He had been the president for so long, they had never had a different president since she had been 2 years old.

She went through WWII, the Korean War, the assassination of JFK, MLK, and RFK and the Vietnam War.

Today she told me that Hillary should not only drop out of the race, she said she should resign from the Senate!

[Alameda]

12. I agree with you....

and she was old enough to remember....so she should know better. I remember the hope and pride we all felt when Kennedy was elected. Yes, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". He filled us with hope and enthusiasm for a better future.....then he was assassinated, then MLK, RFK....Kent State....

[WorseBeforeBetter]

43. Exactly. It's a part of all of our lives, whether you were born...

before or after 1968. Those that were born after need to fully understand "what might have been" had those inspiring men not been gunned down. So-and-so on numerous other threads has erroneously stated that the aftermath lasted about a week. Not so, my *supposed* fellow Dem -- it's 2008 and we're all living the aftermath.

[cliffordu]

7. Thank you for putting this up, my friend, my brother in arms.

[K Gardner]

8. I have to believe those who are excusing her comment are simply too young to remember.

[cliffordu]

9. Yes, I believe you're right.

[phrigndumass]

10. K/R ... given the historical context, it shouldn't be shrugged off.

To me, this is deeply personal.

[stevedeshazer]

11. Let me add that 40 years ago to this very day, I saw Robert F. Kennedy in my little town.

I was a thirteen year old kid in junior high school. He came to campaign for the Oregon primary and I had my political awakening when he spoke of, all things, peace and an end to wars.

1968 was a tumultuous time, to say the least. Dr. King had been lost just the month before. There were riots.

We were at war, and I'll bet our dear friend TahitiNut by this time was fully involved in it along with many other DUers.

When just days later, on the night of June 4th, I awoke to my dad telling me to come out and watch what was happening on television, it was as if every cell in my body did not want to believe what I was seeing. It continues affect me all these long years later.

I take this talk of assassination very, very seriously.

TahitiNut is right, and I hope his recollection is a reminder for all of us old enough to remember, and a lesson for those lucky enough to be younger, that this kind of insinuation made by Sen. Clinton, is totally irresponsible and unforgivable.

And what surprises me even more is she herself is certainly of an age to know better. That makes it even worse in my eyes.

TN, thanks for the thread. It's very personal to me, too.

[pretzel4gore]

13. why always ours?

that's what pisses me off. The people sit back, chewing the cud, scratching the arse, while people put their lives on the line trying to gain them a world where they and their kids can live in dignity, but....bang bang bang...and...what's fer dinner? In the early years of regan, Alan Berg was the big name in talk radio, and in Denver, on KOA, he reached possibly the largest audience of any talk radio host in the country-and Alan was LIBERAL! Maybe too liberal; maybe too contemptuous of the reactionary right, but rush limbah was a rat in the corner compared to Alan, and Alan defied the powers that be. Bang bang. And life went on; an rush limbah became THE talkradio host, and the big lie that only the ratwing was entertaining...bull! Our society is so goddam corrupt, so utterly perverse and hypocritical ONLY liberals can really tear the MAN a new asshole...but...bang bang bang!
The reactionary murdered almost every big name that came along, John Lennon, the Kennedys- again and again and again. And the cud chewing mob? Watching 'indiana jones and temple of bullshit' etc. Today, Alan Berg is dead, while limbah seems to have prevailed, but the real losers are them grunting pigs sitting there watching god knows what on tv....while their world descends into brute fascism around them....
http://www.kenmillsagency.com/tri/history/chap4.html

[stillcool]

16. There have been so many...

emotional wounds that have been ripped open in this Primary Season. The Bush experience has twisted my mind. The Clinton experience has twisted my soul.

[Cha]

17. hilary keeps pushing the fucking buttons to what end?

"It's not a joke. It's not a good reason (or even a bad reason) to be an "understudy" in a campaign, with even the SLIGHTEST expectation of benefiting by such an atrocity. The specter of assassination is not academic to me. It is not merely something in the history books to be learned for the test and forgotten about. It is not something that only happens to people I've never seen or been around. It's personal. It's deeply personal."

All of who are old enough to remember JFK, RFK, MLK, Medgar Evers, and all the struggles we've had are horrified at the latest dumb fuck divisiveness from hilary rodham clinton.

Thanks to Keith Olbermann for telling her what she is on the National Airwaves.

And thank you, Tahiti, for giving us your historical context.

[Major Hogwash]

18. What's even worse, Hillary was a Republican in 1968 when that happened.

She went to the GOP convention in Miami in August to root for Nelson Rockefeller to be the president in 1968.
Hillary wasn't against the Vietnam War in 1968, even though the anti-war movement was well underway by the time RFK was assassinated.

That's one of the reasons Hillary wasn't against the Iraq War, until after Iowa, when it became politically expedient.

She's much more like Joe Lieberman than Robert F. Kennedy.

[Cha]

21. Lieman, Zellout, and Geraldine

Ferraro rolled into one.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

20. k&r.

[David Zephyr]

22. Thanks for your seasoned perspective and pointing out just how dangerous this thinking is.

And I agree. It's not a joke. Thanks for your words.

[Spazito]

23. A powerful OP, thank you for posting it

Recommended.

[Tatiana]

24. Thank you TahitiNut for this perspective.

I was not alive during RFK's assassination. Or JFK's or MLK's or Malcolm X's. But my parents and grandparents were.

My grandmother called me as I was leaving work today. She is in her 80s, but very active politically. She was near tears. She voted for Hillary in our primary and she said she never thought Hillary would use Bobby's name that that.

I think these comments have really stirred up some deep, horrific memories for many that we wish would remain forgotten.

I don't know. Maybe some good can come out of this.

This just feels like a blow to the gut. The Republicans are one thing. We expect this from them, even the so-called "Christians" like Huckabee. But it really feels like being stabbed in the back when someone from your own party makes a reference to such an awful thing.

How can you trust such a person? How can you work with such a person? How often must one look over one's shoulder?

Very sad.

[last1standing]

25. Thank you, Tahiti.

I know reliving moments like these are difficult. Let's hope the next generations don't ever have the same story to tell.

[mnhtnbb]

26. "It's about time." That's what my mother said when I came home from school

on the day JFK was assassinated and told her what had happened. That's what she said, my Republican mother. I will never forget it. It was that day that I understood I never wanted to grow up to be like my mother.

[ShortnFiery]

28. When I talked with my mother on the phone recently ...

She called Teddy Kennedy "a murderer" ... since she's almost 80, I did not get into an argument other than saying, "It was an accident." To which I received a myriad of FOX news talking points. I quickly ended our conversation, then had a good cry. :(

[EFerrari]

38. . . .

:hug:

[TahitiNut]

35. I understand. At that moment, you had to bear the burden of becoming the woman you wanted to be.

I sometimes wonder whether it's only a few of us - or most of us - that have one of those points in time that we become fully aware of having to accept the responsibility for the kind of person we wanted to become. Jokes are often made about how, as children, we think our parents are stupid and only a few years later we're amazed at how much they've learned. But there's the flip side of that, too. Some of us, at some point, come to the realization that our mother or father is the kind of person we DON'T want to become. If we have grace, we don't stop loving them. We just realize they no longer can guide us well on the course to becoming fully human - the kind of mature human we envision for ourselves in the scheme of things: to take our unique 'place' in the world.

If we're lucky, we don't get scar tissue on our soul. Scar tissue doesn't grow. If we're lucky, we take over and grow without losing a sense of wonder, a sense of ideals, and a sense of adventure. If we're unlucky, we become cynical - a disillusionment that holds a grudge against life itself. Let's keep praying for luck.

[ekwhite]

37. My moment like that came when I realized how racist my parents were

Hearing their comments after Martin Luther King was assassinated did it for me. I knew I never wanted to be like that.

[mnhtnbb]

58. It took a lot of years to accept that my mother was unempathic, not only to me,

but to others. Regardless of whether you like someone's politics, I can't imagine feeling that
assassination was an appropriate tool for changing the political landscape. Although, I have to admit,
that there have been politicians recently who I wish would somehow encounter an early demise--heart attack, stroke, etc. We all know on these boards who might qualify! Why is it that the good are the ones who die young? But to approve of assassination? No.

My mother is gone now. I don't miss her, and I don't have any desire to be united with her 'soul'.
I gradually came to recognize that she was incapable of being anyone other than who she was.
She was a very flawed individual. I only hope that I have been a different kind of mother and that my two boys are left with different feelings about me over the years than the way I felt about my mother.

[L0oniX]

70. My mother has been a close friend to the Regans for decades ...imagine how I feel....

I also never wanted to be like my mother in any way. I am disowned just like Patty was. Birds of a feather...

[beac]

75. You know, I wonder what Nancy Reagan thinks about Hillary's "misspeak"

I have to imagine that even though she's "on the other team," she would be appalled at assasination being tossed around so casually.

Not that I CARE what Lady Just-Say-No thinks, but interesting to contemplate nonetheless...

[L0oniX]

79. Welcome to Du

[Baby Snooks]

84. The Reagans...

They apparently had a dinner party that night. Some called expecting it to be cancelled. Apparently Nancy made it clear it wasn't cancelled.

The Nixon Republicans as they were called by some in Los Angeles who didn't share their extremism of course considered Kennedy worse than Kruschev. And so there were no tears shed by any of them. There were also no tears five years later. Not that far from the Ambassador that night, the dinner parties were again not cancelled.

I knew the Reagans indirectly through a friend of theirs. I suspect he was affected by it but hid it from Nancy. Who was and is truly the Dowager Empress who ruled and still rules the dynasty. Most people I have known through the years who knew them liked him even when they didn't really understand him but didn't particularly like her. One person described him as her parrot. He did whatever he was told to do. Apparently including running for governor and then for president. He was, just the same, obviously to the far right on most things. But not as far right as she was. I'm not sure anyone was.

If your mother was friends with her, I can see why you would not want to be like her. With all respect to you.

The worst was in Dallas. People actually celebrated the assassination.

[ShortnFiery]

27. Excellent Commentary. K & R. eom

[apocalypsehow]

30. Another *kick* for this excellent OP for those who might not have seen it. n/t.

:kick:

[dana_b]

31. beautiful post, tahiti nut

I wasn't born yet but I hear it from my step dad. He was a priest in Washington D.C. at the time (yes, he left the priesthood in 1974 - nothing sordid, sorry). He was at a seminary, working on his canon law degree and he knew the Kennedys from church. He talked to them, even gave them some counsel - non legal. He said that when JFK was assassinated, he felt like part of him collapsed. It took a lot of prayer and faith to get through it for him. Then when RFK was killed, it was like horrible nightmare repeating.

I'm sorry Tahiti - I hope it doesn't happen again in any of our lifetimes.

[NatBurner]

32. this is deeper than i cld even try to put into words

[KSinTX]

33. I am crushed to an extent I cannot express at the moment

Thank you for using your words to do so for me.

:kick:

[sybylla]

34. Your words put it all in perspective

Until I saw KO's special comment, I was willing to believe this was another media drama and no more. He's my age, but he helped me realize it's too easy to forget history, especially if you haven't lived it. I wasn't even in kindergarten when the last of the assassinations you mention happened. But even as a young person, I knew they were serious business effecting us all, not just the dead and their families.

No one should ever toss that word around lightly. There's no acceptable excuse for her words in this context.

Thank you, TahitiNut, for reminding us that it is personal.

[ekwhite]

36. I'm still reeling in shock over her comments.

It is deeply personal to me, too. I was 16 years old when Bobby Kennedy was shot. His death, and Martin Luther King's death, affected me deeply. There was so much death - too many good people died too young. Hillary Clinton bringing this up as a reason to stay in the race is deeply offensive to me - it is unforgivable.

[MessiahRp]

39. Sadly it was an era where the heroes of our generation were openly threatened and eventually killed

And to be honest with a few exceptions we have not seen nearly that many leaders in our party or in our country leading as the sort of heroes these men were since that time.

Hillary knows damn well of the inspiration Obama brings to many. She loathes it. It angers her everytime she sees the sizes of his crowds and sees him winning states and super delegates that she had expected to have in her hip pocket.

Invoking this only serves one purpose. To grasp at any remaining straws that might give her a path to the Presidency no matter the cost. Invoking Assassination does not make it so but it is sort of a way to release an unspoken wish she or some of her most fervant supporters might have that any way to remove Obama from this race and clear the path for her is an acceptable thought.

It is not.

Shame on Hillary and any of her supporters that dare defend this.

May you leave the stage now and never return.

Rp

[AspenRose]

40. Kick

:kick:

[Steerpike_Denver]

41. Thank you from TNG

I was born exactly one month after JFK's assassination. You can do the math about how old I was for the rest of the turmoil and bloodshed of the 60's. I was raised to believe we had evolved past the kind of visceral hate and tragedy that had defined my parents' generation. To have this half-healed wound ripped open for my childrens' time is gut-wrenching. My son will turn 18 less than a month before the next presidential election, and I don't want him to have to face the horrible prospect of having to vote for the "surviving" Democratic candidiate, because we have reverted to the old ways of assassination as a tool of political advancement.

[rasputin1952]

42. My mother is a staunch R, always has been, although she now regrets

the time she voted for the current waste of time and space. But that is neither here nor there. I recall when JFK was shot in Dallas. A TV was brought into the classroom, and we all got the news, as it was being reported. We were kept in school while parents were notified the school would be closing early. When released, my brother and I, as well as several others waited for the City bus that would take us close to home. It was the first, (and only), time in my life when NYC was silent, save for the sobs of a few that could not believe that they were now a part of history.

We watched in horror when Oswald was murdered, we wept when the cortege went down Pennsylvania Avenue and into Arlington. We felt a moment of pride and awe when John Jr stepped out and gave the final salute to his father. We knew things would not be the same.

When MLK was assassinated, I drew in a deep breath, a man I had grown to admire had been taken from us, and I knew the nation would become a tinderbox. RFK called for a time of mourning, and in one city, the flames did not ignite, such was the power of one man's voice in the dark.

When RFK was murdered, the shock was almost as much as when his brother had been gunned down some 4 and a half years earlier. To see Rosie Grier with tears in his eyes was something I shall never forget.

Gerald Ford, the attempts on his life rekindled the emotions of years past...Ronald Reagan as well, even though I despised Reagan as president, I did not wish any harm upon him.

George Wallace, no love lost between he and I, but the attempt on his life was unwarranted.

My point in all of this, and the reason I brought my mother in as a staunch R, is that regardless of party, regardless of where one stands on the political field, no sane person wishes death or harm upon another. My mother cried because a president was killed, not a D or an R, but just an American president, and it should never have happened. My mother was torn when MLK and JFK were shot, they were Americans, doing what Americans do...try to make the country a better place for all.

Things like these incidents are personal for me as well, and they should be for all Americans, regardless of party, religion or anything else that "separates" us. For a candidate to be "flippant" about such things crosses a line that should never be crossed. The scars run deep, the pain is real, and people like that man in your dad's barbershop are little more than fools riding on delusion. We all suffer when leaders and potential leaders are taken from our midst. Kennedy may well have been a "son-of-a-bitch", but he was OUR "son-of-a-bitch". On April 14, 1865 a man who was passing by Ford's Theater asked what had happened, and when told of Lincoln's being shot, he bellowed out in glee...he was nearly beaten to death in the street, and the DC police barely saved his life. The man in your dad's shop got off lightly, for if times were different, he most likely would have met the same fate.

[havocmom]

44. powerful TN. Thanks for giving words to how personal it is for some of us, not to be taken lightly

And I am amazed. All this time I thought you were younger than me. Hell, you were a Coastie about the same time my big brother was! He just missed getting into the Academy though. So many high scores when he took the exams they raised the standard that year and he didn't make the new level. You were one of the REALLY bright ones :toast:

He was stationed out of Norfolk and being the handsome, squared away swab that he was, he often ended up on funeral duty, being so close to D.C. and all. Said he was damned glad they were sitting on Weather Station Delta when they got word 'the old man' had been cut down. Said he didn't think he could have made through that funeral, couldn't have maintained 'squared away'. He had spent some time at GITMO (back before it became a dirty word, for any young 'uns in the audience) and as part of the fleet maintaining the blockade. He loved the 'old man' and was proud to serve such a fine CIC.

The Eagle. You got to see the 'old man' when you served on the Eagle? Wow. What a day that must have been. Old (to you at the time) salt on board one of the most beautiful ships afloat. Yeah, that would have been a day.

And so many today have put us down for being so stunned and angry at the implications of HRC's ugly remarks. So many who just don't have a clue of the loss. Makes me ill too.

Bobby had been at our high school football stadium the Saturday before his death. That Wednesday, while he was clinging to life, all of us were like zombies. The whole campus was so quiet. So many quiet tears. So many frightened faces, knowing the chance of ending that horrible war just got dimmer. So many faces that would be gone in a couple years to that horrible war, and it was like they knew it that quiet Wednesday. I never could face a reunion. Too many missing friends. Too many memories of that Wednesday in June when we lost our leader.

Yeah, shit like this is damned personal and there is no shame in feeling it. There is shame it belittling it, mocking it, not taking it to heart.

Be at peace with your beautiful memory, TahitiNut. And I weep with you for the loses our nation has suffered and the fools we suffer still.

[TahitiNut]

48. Well, a LOT of water has passed under this wannabe Coastie's hull since then.

Yes ... the year I took the two days of entrance exams, I was told that 25,000 of us had taken it all over the country. In July of '61, they admitted 250 to the Class of '65. I was ranked 12th. (Lots of aptitude, little achievement.)

The 1962 Summer Cruise took us across the Atlantic close to Ocean Station Bravo to Edinburgh, Scotland, for the Trades Festival which happened to be on the 4th of July. I was 'lucky' - I was assigned to the Eagle over and back - and a cutter between Edinburgh and Las Palmas. We had the "white bitch" (sorry, it's what she was called) all dressed up and Prince Phillip came onboard and reviewed the ship. He stopped at every 3rd or 4th cadet and asked a question. I was one. (It was about my sail station.) Nice fella. (For a 'royal.' Yechh.)

We were in Las Palmas (Canary Islands) when we got the word that JFK wanted us back early so he could review the ship. (I was on radio watch and had to wake the Commodore to give him the message.) We cut our stay short and headed back, taking the westerly trades. Warm. Slept on deck under the stars. As we got closer to North America, we spent each day scrubbing and polishing. We went over the side to touch up the paint and holy-stoned the teak decks for the 2nd time on the cruise. (Unheard of - since it wears down an EXPENSIVE deck.) We encountered heavy weather off Hatteras - full gale - and it came on us before we could bring in sails. So the OD gave up the con to the coach of the sailing team and we rode it out under sail. Blew a mainsail. (Boom!) We set a speed record for the Eagle. (Something like 28 knots, I think.) We rigged life lines for and aft because the starboard side was awash - usually a 12' freeboard. (Starboard mess deck portholes were underwater.) Riding the focsle was a kick and a half - plunging and rising - maybe 24'-30' from trough to crest. (Yahoo!) Didn't lose a single cadet. (Good thing. They wouldn't have had a chance.)

We anchored in Chesapeake Bay to change personnel and clean up. We were docked next to the nuclear merchant ship Savannah. The helicopters in the sky were like mosquitoes - carrying photographers taking pictures of the square-rigger next to the Savannah. Then we sailed up the Potomac and docked at the Navy Yard. Since I'd kept a set of clean whites, I was selected to be a sideboy. Being taller (6'2"), I got to be the end one on his left.

EVERYBODY who was anybody was there. More brass than I'd ever seen. Secretary of the Treasury Dillon and other cabinet members. LBJ, even. High times.


The strange thing is ... I was in the Army, finishing Basic Training at Fort Leonard Wood (Missouri) and awaiting orders when RFK was killed. The gloom was palpable. It was lonely. Most of the other guys had orders and left for their advanced training or first duty assignments. I thought back to 1963 - found a private place - and cried. I knew I'd get sent to Nam, but it was Jack and Bobby I thought about.

Yep. It's personal.

[havocmom]

50. my bro's ship was so old and so often on Delta that they called her the Delta Queen

The trip to Bermuda AFTER the one when they hit the breakwater entrance to the harbor, they found the bars in town had a new drink to offer them: Chinco on the rocks

Glad you made it home from that horrible war. Glad there are honest people who can tell of the days.

RFK, that silent Wednesday on campus... I caught a lot of flack as kids were praying he would pull through. I said it would be a horrible thing. He would not be him anymore and it seemed that would be more unkind than death. They didn't take too kindly to my thoughts. But I could not imagine such a vital man wanting to live reduced to a shell with no mind anymore. That was the day I understood the point of Cassandra, and the loneliness of daring to speak truth, no matter how painful.

I still weep for the loss, but I could not be dishonest with myself and pretend he would be OK. The damage would not be healed. Nor could I be so selfish as to pray he would live, when it meant being without a working mind. But I still cry and such horror will always remain personal.

[concerned canadian]

45. thank you for the personal history lesson

I was 11 when JFK became president and it was a big deal in my mother's Catholic Irish/French Catholic family. I remember

the pictures in Life magazine of the 'the first family', how beautiful they were. The comedy album making playful fun of

the president's accent as he played (or talked on the phone) with Caroline. I can't remember if 'John-John' was born yet and

part of the album, but i do remember feeling affection and a kinship with Americans at that time.

The day JFK was assassinated i was 14. The school i went to suspended classes for the day, (it was Catholic Girls' high school) and

the nuns were all crying silently. We were told to chant the rosary and to pray. Later it seemed as if everyone in my home

town (Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, right across 'the ditch' from Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan) and in the country went into

mourning in sympathy with what America was going through.

The thought or mention of such a terrible, terrible tragedy happening again is enough to make even a lapsed person of

faith pray for the protection of Barack Obama and his family, which is exactly what i did when i heard the latest

grossly insensitive comment by the former first lady. And she's 'mystified' why people would rather not see her face

on the screen or hear her voice in a public forum again.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

46. Deeply personal, and grievously sensitive.

As SoCalDem so accurately states in her OP http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6104858&mesg_id=6104858 "When people remind us of all the dead dreams", there is a rapid return to the pain suffered then, and the direction this country headed from that point on.


K & R

[sandsavage]

47. Yes this is personal deeply personal

My husband and I are our old farts too. Today has been a sad day.We have talked quietly of the the deaths of our beloved, JFK,MLK RFK. We lived through those horrible times. You never forget. My husband was on a submarine off the cost of Key West Florida, training exercise. He was a Radioman. He received the message about JFK being shot and his death. He still to this day cannot speak about this without tearing up.I had taken my baby for a turn in his stroller, as I walked up to my apartment,we got the news our president had been shot.The mailman was just going up the steps,several neighbors were sitting on the front steps.A lovely old Cuban lady who lived upstairs,opened the screen door and through tears and sobs told us that our president had been shot and was not expected to live. The mailman fell to his knees. We were all stunned and crying. For weeks it seemed as if the whole island was in limbo from grief.Yes we remember in detail the deaths of all these men. We as others that have lived through these times, never ever forget.

Sorry for this long post,please forgive me for butting in. It has been a very bad day and I just needed to talk and perhaps explain a little as to why it is a sad day for some of us.

[TahitiNut]

49. Thank you for the reminiscence, neighbor.

You're not "butting in" ... many of us are sad and angry today. It's a "family thing," I think. We're family, eh?
:hi:

[pretzel4gore]

59. Robby's murder told me- the pattern violence wasn't incidental

JFK, MLK, now Robby, and with Malcolm X also shot down...i suddenly realized (i was 17) that too many people were indifferent, or outright content with the facts, and....nixon was elected in 1968, though he wanted to murder his way outta the 'Nam mess, then, only 6 years after he was driven out of office, the....???...they elected ronald regan, or did nothing when someone let regan take the chair in the WH!
Regan was a warpig, a bullyboy!
Didn't matter. 'Get over it' was all the pigmedia had to say.
Now it's their turn to 'get over it' imho....

[Bette Noir]

51. Thank you for a moving piece.

I hope President Obama gets to serve 8 honorable years, followed by a worthy retirement.

[Catherina]

52. Thank you for this eloquent post . Gratefully recommended n/t

[VotesForWomen]

53. Damn! that bitch is trying to get O killed!! she'll do anything to win!! not

[FlaGranny]

57. No, I doubt that.

I think she is subconsciously wishing for "something" to happen. After all she has been saying it for several months - "anything can happen." She says it again and again.

The tone of your post is uncalled for. We are remembering - Hillary reminded us.

[Leopolds Ghost]

54. My dad heard similar comments in the LSU dorm when word came down.

He said he nearly took a bat to the sons of bitches.

[FlaGranny]

55. Your post brought me to tears.

I remember it all. My husband met and shook JFK's hand during his campaign when Kennedy went through McGuire AFB in New Jersey. We voted for him - my very first vote. This is all bringing back such bad memories and fears that I thought I had pushed away after all this time. The horror of it was nearly as bad as losing a family member.

I can't get it through my mind that Hillary brought this up in this context.

[Samantha]

56. Nominated

Reading the text of your thread and some of the heartbreaking responses makes me not want to say many words now. But thank you so much for sharing your touching experience. I loved reading it.

I too was headed to the bottom of the thread to say politics is personal, but you obviously already know this. Perhaps we can discuss this subject again - I think it would be a healthy outlet - some distance in the future, when the dust from Hillary Clinton's words settles. There are many DU'ers, I am sure, with stories to share, and it would be a good thing for the younger DU'ers to get a sense of the tragedies of that time.

Sam

[KoKo]

60. Thanks for sharing this....

:thumbsup: Grew up in SC..can remember those awful words...some people saying exactly the quote in your subject line. It was a turning point in helping me realize that I needed to go beyond SC if I was going to be able to fulfill my self. And, I did.

[Gman]

61. While that guy may have been a Democrat at the time

a couple of years later, after the 1965 Civil Rights Act was signed by LBJ, that guy and millions like him joined the GOP and remain there through today. That should be the retort every time a Republican mentions anything about the old South and Democrats.

[Coexist]

62. wonderful

[AngryOldDem]

63. Thank you for this.

What is stunning is, HRC LIVED through that time. She was an active participant. She of all people should remember the pain and the turmoil of that time.

[Autonomy]

64. crappy writing

i could not follow... or get your point

[glitch]

81. Crappy reading.

It takes two to tango.

[bvar22]

65. I knew there was something about you Iiked!

Springhill College, 1970 - 1972

[TahitiNut]

83. Father Eisely and his seismograph ... and lots of other Jebbies ....

... they actually forced me to think. I'll never forgive them for that. :evilgrin:

[defendandprotect]

66. Political violence in America is something unacknowledged by corporate-media . . .

and something that we all need to speak of --

it's happened --- we know it ---

[Tippy]

67. K&R

[ensho]

68. yes, I was there for it all and that's why I now say it is up to us to keep

Hillary and Obama alive.

because we know

[fortyfeetunder]

69. Agree..from another kid of the 60's...

And I vividly remember when Medgar, John, Malcolm, Martin, and Bobby were killed. No child should grow up with these types of memories. To hear Hillary's words, made me sick to my stomach she would even suggest assassination as an example. You're right: it is deeply personal for those who lived through the atrocities in the 1960's.

[L0oniX]

71. K & R from an old Hate Ashberry Berkley Barb reading hippie who remembers it all too well.

[swishyfeet]

72. Wonderful post!

I have been one of the people who thought this whole issue has been terribly overblown. I've learned a lot from this thread, and I thank you 'old timers' for providing the historical context. Thanks for sharing.

[TahitiNut]

74. Thanks, swishyfeet.

:hi:

[AtomicKitten]

73. K&R

:thumbsup:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

76. I heard similar sentiments from fellow marines.

Mostly of the "good old boy" southern variety and mostly within earshot of their black "comrades in arms".

[beac]

77. You get my very first rec!

I was in-utero when JFK was shot, but the impact of his assassination-- and all the tragic ones to follow-- was still being felt as I made my way through grade school.

How Hillary could toss off a reference to RFK's being shot as part of her "primaries go 'til June" rhetoric is beyond me.

Maybe it's because she was fresh off being a "Goldwater Girl" and in the midst of trying to get Nelson Rockefeller the GOP nomination in 1968.

For her historical insensitivity alone, she is disqualified from being our leader.

[TahitiNut]

82. Thank you and welcome to our little community on the web.

Like all little communities in the post-Reagan era, we have some crazies walking the sidewalks in their nightgowns. Don't mind them ... they just don't have the treatment they need.

:hi:

[Mme. Defarge]

78. THANK YOU!!! n/t

[glitch]

80. Thank you for posting this. K & R

Those of us who actually experience the loss of the people we supported have a hard time expressing the kick in the gut we feel when we hear someone mention "assassination" so casually.

I think you expressed it well.

Edit to add: :hug:

[gademocrat7]

85. K & R

I was 17 when Senator Robert Kennedy was killed. His death opened the wounds of President Kennedy's assassination. What a turbulent era in our lives.I will never forget.

[Marnieworld]

86. Thank you for sharing this.

All of those events happened before I was born and yet I grew up honoring those men and their legacies. As time passed, the more I learned about their gifts to us and what they stood for, fought for, I too have grieved for them and the possibilities they represented that were stolen from all of us. They too are my heroes though they were all dead before I was born. You don't have to have the personal experience of the shock of an assasination to understand how horrific and tragic and unjust it is. We have a collective loss and pain from it that it is no joke at all. Recently I heard audio of RFK speaking in Indiana after MLK's assasination and it moved and inspired me in a way that I hadn't been before by Bobby Kennedy. I grieved for him 40 years later as I was more exposed to how special and wise and compassionate he was. These losses exist in the present tense in perpetuity even for those like me that didn't experience them.

That is why I cannot fathom how Hillary Clinton, a member of your generation also with personal memories of assasinations, could ever utter those words. It is unforgivable and an insult not just to Obama and the Kennedys but to all of us. How dare she?

[JoFerret]

87. And sometimes arrive at different conclusions...

.

[madamesilverspurs]

88. When JFK was killed

we were in the high school auditorium for study hall. When the announcement was made a girl sitting a few seats away said, "It's about time." The boy sitting in front of her spun around and backhanded her across the face. No one said anything to him, she just sat there with her head down, knowing that she was alone at that moment.

School was dismissed early, and we were all in shock or weeping. I walked home, stopping into the drug store where my mother worked. She was surprised to see me, given the hour, and was further surprised when I told her we had been dismissed early. Seems they didn't know, yet. Her boss heard what I told her and grabbed a radio from the display and plugged it in. Young people today have no idea what it's like to be in a room full of people staring at a radio.

Ours was a very, very Republican household. Yet one of my most vivid memories from that time is the day of JFK's funeral. We were all gathered in the living room, watching the grainy pictures on our black-and-white television. When John-John saluted there was a strange noise behind me, and I turned to find my father with tears streaming down his face. It was the first time I'd ever seen him cry.

By '68 we were living in LA, the household was still Republican, but we were watching everything on television. At some point I excused myself saying that I had no wish to watch what happened to Jack repeated with Bobby. Less than an hour later my mother came into my room and told me. It was numbing.

A while back on one of the DU posts I mentioned a cartoon that was printed in the Los Angeles paper around that time. I've since looked for it, but haven't been able to find it. So I'll describe it again, in hopes that someone else might remember it: It was a simple drawing of a sitting man holding, like a draped blanket, a large flag; his face is buried in the flag as he cries. It's still the most compelling and poignant commentary in my memory. And it's what I thought of when I heard HRC's remark. Damn.

[zeemike]

89. Wow I heard the same line in Texas

I was in the Navy stationed at Beevill Texas. But they used the N word.
"Well they finally killed that N... loving son of a bitch" he said. And until that time I thought he was my friend.
And a friend of mine was at an assembly at the university of Florida and she told me that when they announced that JFK had been shot the whole student body stood up and applauded.
I was 19 years old at the time and it was when I grew up and became aware of how screwed up we are.