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Nice try, HRC boosters - but no sale.

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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:14 PM
Original message
Nice try, HRC boosters - but no sale.
All of this "hrrrrmmphh!" quoting of RFK Jr.'s comments on HRC's vile remarks earlier today are irrelevant in two senses:

1. First, the attempt to shush the justified anger at her indecent statements - that had the appearance of hinting, rightly perceived or not, that she saw her path to the nomination through the possible assassination of her rival - by quoting RFK Jr. is understandable: If I were an HRC booster I'd want all the talk about this to go away, too. But RFK Jr.'s opinion is just that: his opinion. Read up on "appeals to authority" and other logical fallacies here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

2. Second, the focus of this entire debate shouldn't first and foremost be what RFK Jr. or any of the Kennedy's feel about her statements (although they certainly shouldn't be discounted), because her statements were directed at Senator Obama in the context of what might happen to him. RFK Jr. doesn't get the right to tell Senator Obama that HRC's comments were no big deal, because those comments were not directed at RFK Jr.: they were spoken in the context of Senator Obama's presence in this campaign.

It really is amusing to see the desperate spinning by the HRC boosters in an attempt to mitigate this or make it go away. It's not: she needs to sincerely apologize for her vile remarks, suspend her campaign, and endorse Senator Obama for President. Like, tomorrow.
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ampad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yea they are working overtime tonight
As I said time and time again tonight: I wonder how many of them were willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt during "bittergate" I'm sure not many.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's hilarious to see the same folks who parsed every random syllable of Obama's during "bittergate"
now act like all this hinting around that your political rival's death might just be the path to the nomination is no big deal.
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PeterPancake Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. And don't forget "sweetiegate"
They went positively apeshit over that one.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Yes, I'd forgot about that one innocuous remark being inflated into a full-scale scandal by the
HRC boosters here. It was like he'd insulted the Flag, Motherhood, and Apple Pie all in one breath.
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Arrowhead2k1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. Yup, context considered, the HRC boosters deserve no pity.
Edited on Sat May-24-08 02:48 AM by Arrowhead2k1
They wanted war, well let's let them have it. :evilgrin:
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. They accused KO of wanting to 'off' Hillary just recently.
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thewiseguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Her comments had little to do with the kennedy family
Hillary obviously wants to make it about them and so are her supporters. She needs to apologize to the Obama family.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yep - she's as anxious to change the subject as her boosters here are. n/t.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. They definitely are in overdrive tonight. And FYI, the outrage isn't just
here on DU, it's all over the web, and I just watched a report on BBC News. They're banking on this being a one cycle news story, and it may be, but her comments were unnececssary, and inflammatory, especially considering the horrible news we all got this week about Sen. Kennedy.

Politically speaking, it can't help her. I expect to see more of her SD's make the switch.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I agree: after this there should be a flood of SD's, many of them defectors from her own ranks.
And who could blame them? Her remarks are indefensible.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I think this may finally push Rep. Clyburn off the fence.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. This is worse
Than her hard working white folks comment. We all know what happened after that one.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Exactly - that was just a racist "slip" of the tongue; this is a much uglier dog-whistle. n/t.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I'm still trying to figure how Obama should handle this if he's asked to
respond. On the one hand, a part of me thinks he should be magnanimous and rescue her. But the part of me that despises Hillary wants him to let her twist in the wind. But if I've learned anything about Sen. Obama, he'll choose the high road as usual, and won't try to make political hay like she did with "pastorgate", "bittergate", etc.
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. This will be around for a while
Sunday talk shows, for sure will talk about this. This will be fresh on Tuesday when the news cycle hits again. Though I don;'t know what they will do with it, you know Stewart and Colbert will run with this--not to mention the network late night shows.

If this is off the radar by PR, I'd be shocked.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. What is a one cycle news story?
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CaptJasHook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
12. Don't tell the rest of DU, they want to shut GD/P down
and tell the progressives and activists to STFU.

People are scared out of their wits that the Democratic party is in danger. They are willing to sacrifice their integrity for the sake of peace. They are willing to let Hillary's behavior stand for their Presidential ambitions.

I say, fire up the base. Fire up the activists and those who claim the mantle of Progressive.
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apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-23-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. We're seeing it, sadly, in the notion that not only is this "no big deal," it's "actually a
good thing!" attitude of so many of the boosters - who like to pretend that this was nothing more than some trifling historical reference. And from the "I'm an Obama supporter, BUT..." crowd, who are ever with us, world without end (until, of course, a certain Tuesday in November, when I suspect there'll be a whole lotta "unmasking" going on...).
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. You know, I personally did not have the intent of wanting people
in Du to shut up, all I wanted was a return to sanity, but perhaps after eight years of what we have witnessed, sanity is nothing more than a distant memory.....

In no way shape or form do I see my wish to stop the vile posts concerning Sen Clinton sacrificing my integrity, in fact, my aim was to ensure others held on to theirs, now I am not so sure such is possible...

In some strange twist of logic inside my head perhaps this uncontrollable mob of over zealous and irrational type individuals can become an asset, one the powers that be never thought they would have to face....


I had a glimpse of Sen Obama on election day waiting with his supporters for the news filtering down from all the news outlets whether or not he was to become the next president, the tension high, the atmosphere electric, the mood nervous and tense, a distant hum similar to an air conditioner playing eerily in the background as the countdown begins...

After months, if not years of people demanding justice be served and being let down time and time again, hope rising then just as quickly being harshly ripped from innocence lost, sleepless nights, nightmarish dreams of wondering when will this all end...and then a man, a new face appears in the horizon, slowly one by one, then ten by ten the people begin to believe this new face, this new voice will in effect become a Moses like figure who leads them out of the darkness and guides them back into the promised land that some thought never to see again....

Tensions remain high, those in attendance standing by Obama's side listening intently, hearts beating fast, their breathing slow but steady, the only sounds to be heard coming from several small screens which their eyes remain glued too...

Across the country, millions of American citizens sit in similar limbo in the privacy of their homes their eyes glued to the screens as well, fearful of making a sound and missing a confirmation from the media that all their hopes and fears will finally be put to rest when the media announces Obama is is to become America's new leader, the presidency theirs, the promises of change echoing in their thoughts and all their hard work and months of soliciting votes for their beloved Obama ensure they are as tightly wound as a spool of velvety thread.....they can take no more disaapointments...

They can take no more of four years of what the republicans have done to this country, with bated breath and heavy hearts they silently whisper prayers to unseen forces that all their hopes and dreams will be realized and their hard work toward these changes will not have once again been in vain...




But behind closed doors, a conspiracy once again replays itself........a new plot practiced early on is also counting down to the eerie conclusion, people in place, shadowy figures paid to keep silent, the pieces in place, timing is everything....

A nod, a look, a call is made, it is time....proceed...


As millions of anxious citizens of the United states remain glued to the live televised networks, they are unaware, refusing to give up hope, refusing to even acknowledge to themselves that all could easily be lost...they are not ready....but others are..

The anchor picks up papers, he shuffles them, he smiles brazenly into the camera as he eyes barely flicker slightly above the center of the camera in order to read what is now coming across the screen, letter by letter, word by word, slowly, precisely the anchor reads the election results....

McCain has won, as the anchor begins a slow monologue tallying up the numbers to his waiting audience he is unaware of the stunned silence that greets this unwelcome news....


A slow hum begins to erupt from those around the world for in other countries they too have anxiously awaited the outcome of the American presidential election.....

The slow hum soon erupts into shouts of anger, shouts of denial fill millions of americans homes though the anchor drums on unaware he is no longer being heard by his viewing audience...

In the same moment of the anchors announcement while America reacts in cries of anguish and heart wrenching anger the small group of men and a few women in another place sit silently surrounded by secret service agents they feel safe, secure and completely unaware of what is soon to come,

Huddled in a small group, drinks in hand they silent toast each other, small half smiles beginning to form, they are unaware that this time by ensuring one of their own remain in power they have unleashed a rage that will not be so easily subdued as it was twice before...

As cries of anger and disbelief rise to a crescendo of unimaginable proportions across the nation,
the small group begin to congratulate each other, a false sense of contentment will soon be lost...

This time they unleashed something they will be unable to control.....

And so it begins....


Obama supporters begin filing out of their homes into the streets, fists raised, voices shrill in their grief and rage...

It will not happen again...their candidate won, and it was stolen..they did it again.

Voices begin shouting all at once, the din so loud many are simply not heard over the others...

The shouts of angry voices heard from the streets outside begin pulling others into their midsts left stunned and speechless by the announcement from their self imposed coma like state of being, a breath is taken, then another and they too begin filing out of their homes, their voices raised in sinc with the choir of outrage and angst......


The reports days later of the worst riots in America's history begin filtering out beyond it's borders, other countries are not surprised, only surprised that it took this long for American citizens to begin the long trek of proclaiming their country will no longer be led by those with criminal intent, intent on reaping the benefits of it's tired and world weary citizens...

They were pushed to far, their fears had made them insane, insanity cannot be controlled, can not be reasoned with, they forgot and they finally lost...and the people finally won though many were left homeless, in the riots, homes were destroyed, property lost, the people revolted , and justice found a voice..but at what price?

Sadly, many innocent lives were lost..and once again fingers began pointing....lies began forming and even the innocent would not be believed...

It was some time before order was restored....

A country in shambles...a shaky leadership.....prisons full......it will be sometime before peace stands a chance..

and why?


Because of a few rumbustious individuals who shouted for the call to arms early on on Democratic Undergound....win at all costs, any cost and leave no prisoners....

We won, but did we really..and at what price...

That is how I see Obama supporters on DU...;-) perhaps they could be useful after all in case of another election theft ....though there is bound to be casualties..they will not be stopped....but i guess peace must be fought for....

And a new generation of greedy and power hungry individuals emerge...


Soon , far too soon, a man sits across from his friends...he is greedy for more, he was once poor but no longer and has no desire to ever return to his beginnings.. he was promised more...and he will get it..the others in his small room feel the same...why shouldn't they have a piece of the pie, they have worked hard, led long and now desire a huge payback....its their, someone is going to get it, why not them...why not them.....

Humankind marches on....people need a leader, who will lead, who will benefit..the games begin anew...

History has a way of repeating itself, time after time after time..there are always those that want to win, want more and at any cost and without any regard for the casualties such power hungry greed filled ideas can leave behind...

Thats all folks...

by the way, armegeddon never happened, not in this lifetime though the earth rumbled and more lives were lost as the earth began to renew itself, too bad it was unable to purge the evil from it's midst, the evil of mankind that is...and they lived on..




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kennetha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. Complete nonsense
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-24-08 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. I took one Clinton apologist off of my ignore list
and they are promptly going back on. Like yesterday. :eyes:
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