Obama fans want an apology!1?!11

[cboy4]

I can not even breathe.

:spray:
:spray:
:spray:


How long have I been calling on Obama to offer a simple apology for allowing a notorious homophobe (Donnie McClurkin) to spew gay hate at an official Obama campaign event?

Since last winter?

And now I read some poll about how no apology from Hillary Clinton is enough?!!

You people are too damn much.

[anonymous171]

1. I don't remember Donnie McClurkin talking about Hillary Clinton's assassination.

[anigbrowl]

15. Or any LGBT's death by violence.

Maybe in other contexts, I'm not a Donnie McClurkin expert. but after reviewing video of the Obama event in question, my biggest objection was that made his remarks into a discussion about himself and what people were saying about him rather than something sensible like 'we're all God's children, no matter what path we choose through life'.

Cboy4, I accept you don't like McClurkin or the negative environment fostered by his remarks that has resulted in pain and suffering for gay people. I will never understand that in the way a gay person does, which is not to say I am oblivious to it or don't have my own stories of pain and suffering that allow me to empathize with you on this issue.

But to endlessly recycle this one bad choice by Obama's campaign says more about you than it does about Obama. I can think of a couple of specific positions Hillary took back last fall that upset and affected me personally. I am not still posting about them 8 months later demanding that she retract her publicly stated position on those issues.

[MADem]

64. Well, Clinton wasn't talking about anyone's EITHER. Even the late Senator;s SON

says that.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/rfk-jr-says-no.html

[DemVet]

81. And HRC never talked about Obama's.

[JoFerret]

87. What's your point?

.

[cboy4]

92. *********CRICKETS*********

in advance.

[ossman]

2. When did Obama and Donnie daydream about Hillary getting killed? Nice try. Buh Bye

[AuntPatsy]

3. Silly you, your not important, people would never attempt to harm

a gay person....

:sarcasm:

[cboy4]

11. You tell your friend Obama to apologize and then maybe

I'll start caring about what Hillary says.

I didn't vote for either of these candidates, so I don't give a shit.

[ossman]

13. Apologize for what? Link to it since your words mean nothing.

[cboy4]

20. Do you live on the moon ossman?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dUp16hFzY8


Here's a bonus of Bill Richardson, aka, imbecile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBaoLiZGNsI

[ossman]

23. So Obama is responsible for Bill Richardson? Wow. Here is a link from Dick Morris....

[JoFerret]

88. Why deny?

deal.

[TheWraith]

4. If you weren't so pathetic, it would be funny.

And I can't decide which is more sad, the fact that you can't even get basic facts right about the McClurkin thing, or that you think that's equal to raising the specter of political assassination.

[cboy4]

7. Of course I have the facts right. What's pathetic is you

refuse to accept them.

The truth hurts.

[Alexander]

8. How many times did Obama talk about assassinations?

Zero.

You lose.

Go home and get lost.

[mcctatas]

5. I agree that Obama should have done more to apologize for

McLurkin, but to equate that with hillary's latest fuck-up? Not so much...

[ruby slippers]

6. I'm still waiting for McCain to walk Ellen down the aisle. What did

I miss with McLurkin?

[AuntPatsy]

37. lol if it could aid him in getting votes I have no doubt he would....

I really have little respect for politicians in general, why can't they stand on thier own and said what they really feel? You know that many do not..

[ruby slippers]

38. yeah, but Ellen already asked him on her show this week and he said "NO."....

it was on the news...

[AuntPatsy]

51. I know, I saw it on the news, he appeared pretty uncomfortable, I really

wonder why he went on her show must knowing he would come off looking as bad as he did, even in the straight religious community Ellen is admired..strange world..

[boppers]

39. Heya, ruby!

Here's the story on McClurkin, as I see it.

He's a singer/pastor who's been at conventions for both the GOP and DNC.

His personal history, as he tells it, is that he was molested as a child, by men, in secrecy, for years. He learned to enjoy men.

Once he established himself, he hid his sexual history, while still occasionally dabbling in it... behind closed doors.

He eventually decided that his sexual identity was a product of his history, and that through his religious beliefs, he could just settle on sleeping with just women, and not hide his past.

As a result of this, he considers his past behavior to be "sinful", and not "god's plan" for him.

This is where the poutrage kicks in. Since he's "ex-gay", folks who don't have the luxury of being bi get mighty insulted about being thought as "sinful". (The Bi community has seen this for a loooooong time.)

[ruby slippers]

95. thanks. Interesting.

[AuntPatsy]

17. He has every right to equate the two, do you deny that the likes of McLurkin

and many others advocate such hate against the gay community on a daily basis that nine times out of ten it ends up with people wanting to actually kill are at the very least maim a gay individual? How many times does such have to happen before the religious community is called on such for ADVOCATING HATE crimes against the gay community...

Sometimes it makes me really disheartened that some people view another's life more important than someone simply because the don't know them...

Who gets to decide who is more import to live and or to die? The unfairness of it all has always left me sickened.

[mcctatas]

25. He has every right to equate them...

and i have every right to disagree. If a Hillary surrogate had made the assassination comments, then maybe we would reach common ground, but nope, sorry, she said it herself...

[AuntPatsy]

27. you absolutely do. as does he...

[Justitia]

9. What a warped fucking comparison.

[cboy4]

14. Not surprised you don't give a shit. Typical fan.

:thumbsdown:

[ossman]

16. cmon buddy. Back your shit up. Prove it. Show me the comments

[Justitia]

18. Ironic how you quote MLK in your signature, yet think ASSASSINATION is no big fucking deal.

What a sick, sick, individual.

[cboy4]

32. I hope you're using a designated driver tonight.

[Justitia]

42. Pathetic, just like your mentally ill candidate.

[cboy4]

47. Oh Hillary is sick too? But Justitia is just as mentally stable

as a rock, ha you poor thing.

Just so you know, people with crushing self esteem issues (as yourself), constantly use the "oh my god, you're so sick" or the "you're mentally ill" responses.

It's a well known pattern to make you feel better about your many failures in life.

Sorry if I'm sounding mean, but I'm just passing along what I learned in class.

[Justitia]

49. Unlike Hillary, I don't invoke the violent murder of my fellow Democrats. She's mentally ill.

Or homicidally inclined - take your pick.

And you don't know jack shit about me, Captain Clueless.

[AuntPatsy]

52. Well if your in a mood to be mean, GDP is the place to be;-)

[AuntPatsy]

29. Tell that to a mother who has lost a gay child to what amounts

to them being assassinated in a way by gay bashers, every sunday the churches are filled with parishioners who told that gay is bad, very very bad, evil even and evil should be abolished!!!!!

Now as we all know, many can construe that word as getting rid of them all together and some do..look at the idiot whats his name who pickets military funerals....


I personally get upset that our politicians do NOT slam church leaders for this practice, by not doing so they can be seen as enablers of violent offenders if you ask me..

[cboy4]

36. Thank you for all of the nice things you're saying

AuntPatsy. :)

[AuntPatsy]

45. I don't understand why there even still need to be a discussion about this issue?

Why are some seen as more important than others? And this from the nutjobs who pretend to value life so very very much...when in reality, the lives they value so much are their own and those close to them...at least I wish they would be more honest, I would respect them so much more.

You know, I have an aunt who is a nun and has been in the order since the age of fifteen. Her nephew, my cousin is gay and though she might not talk about in when she is in the convent, to me she has stated he is no different than any other family member, God I love that woman..she reminds me of the flying nun, not sure you would remember that show, long time past.

[Justitia]

40. Non sequiturs abound.

:eyes:

[AuntPatsy]

43. Can you be more specific?

[cboy4]

76. *********CRICKETS*********

Did you like that answer you got AuntPatsy?

[NewHampshireDem]

10. Well, let us see what the great gazzoogle has to say about this

"I have clearly stated my belief that gays and lesbians are our brothers and sisters and should be provided the respect, dignity, and rights of all other citizens. I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country.

I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as President of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."

If HRC came out and said something half as thoughtful as Obama said above, I'd be happy to forgive her. Instead it was more 'sorry ... if'.

[cboy4]

26. That is NOT an apology for allowing him to speak.

But excellent try NewHampshireDem!

[NewHampshireDem]

30. You are right ... and I didn't say it was

But, boy, what a powerful statement of his position on GLBT issues.

[AuntPatsy]

46. So he is planning on ensuring that the gay community have equal rights?

did he really say that openly?

[NewHampshireDem]

50. That's what he said.

See my post below. :hi:

[AuntPatsy]

56. Wow, I'm more than impressed....that alone makes him different in my book

and different is good believe me, I believe that our gay community is much more wide spread than many believe and I also believe that if the stigma was removed it could only mean we as humans are advancing far more than I once believed...

:toast:

He had my vote regardless if and when he is announced as our candidate but for the first time in my life I would openly campaign for someone...

all I want is fairness you know, I don't despise the religious community at all really, I just despise the lack of common sense....

[NewHampshireDem]

61. It's always struck me as a rather silly argument ...

Not the one from the GLBT community, but from the other side. As someone who was married under the apple trees in my wife's parents' back yard by a JP, I never understood what any 'church' had to do with it ... nevermind the fact that not all churches agree anyway!

I honestly believe that Obama will do what he can to help advance the cause of the GLBT community. I don't take his tepid response to the California ruling as anything more than playing his cards close to the vest and a recognition of the fact that he can't be JFK and send the 101st Airborne into Arkansas to allow homosexual couples to marry. (Though I do admit that the image of pink parachutes and a battalion of armed gay men marching through Little Rock is one that fills me with a strange sense of glee--I'd like to see the red necks' worst nightmares come true I guess!)

[AuntPatsy]

68. Omg too funny, my husband would have a heart attack, I just cannot

understand his open dislike of gay men yet and lets be honest here has no problem viewing two women, I accused him once of fearing himself...obviously he bellowed and blustered but sometimes I think it is the reason some men talk nonsense like that.

[americanstranger]

12. Two different things.

You want Obama to apologize to you.

I want Hillary to apologize to Obama.

There's a difference. I could care less if Hillary apologizes to me, because I won't support her in any event.

- as

[grantcart]

19. And exactly how is Senator Obama's personal ambitions going to be advanced

with the death of McClurkin? How is Senator Obama justifying damaging the Democratic party and subverting the interests of the party to his personal vanity in an obviously futile attempt to cling to power?

Your outrage would have not worn so thin if once you would have admitted that despite apparently being the 'champion' of the LBGT community Senator Clinton has gone undercover about her support on the campaign stump while Senator Obama makes frequent references to it in all kinds of prominent speeches, including at MLK's home church on MLK's birthday where he chastise the African American for its homophobia. If you had once admitted that Senator Clinton had gone macho with rural appalachian supporters and harped on 'closed door meetings in San Francisco' then your opinion might have some weight. But she did not and yours does not.

You do share one thing with Senator Clinton. You have turned into a professional victim, intent on turning your personal feelings into leaverage to monopolize the interests of the party. Very Clintonian of you.

[anonymous171]

21. Someone should ask her about her support of GLBT rights.

Preferably at one of her grocery store stops or something. Just to see what she says.

[Tarheel_Dem]

28. I'd love to see her give a speech on LBGT issues to this crowd....

and to witness their reaction to said speech.

[AuntPatsy]

31. Im curious, an honest question, is Obama for gay marriage?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

33. Not one of the candidates currently in the presidential race is for equal marriage rights.

Not one.

My first choice was the only one, I think.

[AuntPatsy]

34. That is really sad don't you think? How could a person be a leader of this country

and not care that all his or her citizens are treated with equal respect? Doesn't this reek to you???

[SemiCharmedQuark]

35. I was for Kucinich.

He wasn't even allowed at all of the debates.

[AuntPatsy]

53. I know and I thought that was more than wrong, Real change is needed

in our political arena's.....

[AuntPatsy]

41. I think that is great that Obama chastised anyone about gay bashing

but it falls short, allow them the same rights as all Americans or they should not be fit to lead this country. Are they the leader for a select few or for us all regardless of our personal lifestyles, religous beliefs and or ethnicticity...

Perhaps he will take that stand before he actually begins the road to the white house, I swear I would move heaven and earth in working for his campaign which I have never in my life done, take a stand, quit fearing the religious wackjobs who demand we all live by thier rules....

I want equality, the same rights should be made for all Americans why can't they demand it happen what in the world is the hold up?

this is not the sixteenth century, why do we still live by their ignorance and idiotic superstiious reasonings?

[grantcart]

44. we all want that here and California is going to bring it

but the question is that of using the McClurkin episode as a defining partisan event.

It has been continually held against Obama although he has been more vocal about equality than Clinton who has ended up pandering to some of the most homophobic areas of the country.

[AuntPatsy]

57. To be honest with you I have no idea what the Mcclurkin episode is about

other than from my limited understanding, he is very vocal against the gay community and Obama did not chastise him but allowed him to speak at one of his events, am I right?

[grantcart]

71. He is a 'former gay' african american who preaches that gays can be cured

He do so by starting out and proclaiming that he loves gays etc

its really pretty strange and at no point does he say anything as hateful as those that are persecuting gays.

But the meaning of what he is saying is both hateful and hurtful to gays.

I perceive him as a psychologically unbalanced self hating gay man.

If this is true then Obama may not be pubicly denouncing him out of fear that he is not psychologically balanced.

In any case there are come LGBT Clinton supporters that have gone crazy over the issue.

[NewHampshireDem]

48. Well, I think you and I can agree that a platform that includes gay marriage is a sure loser

It has nothing to do with the politicians, but with the American public ... clinging to their guns and religion and all. I believe--and I swear this is my honest belief--that the rw went after Bill so hard because what was the *first* major thing he did after taking office? Don't-ask-don't-tell. Remember, that wasn't his first choice either--he wanted to completely lift the ban, but it wasn't politically feasible. I don't believe any politician can come out and support gay marriage in a presidential primary. It's a sad fact, but there it is.

[AuntPatsy]

60. Maybe you don't give the majority of citizens in this country enough credit

maybe they would get on board if our leaders did, and maybe they would be more than willing to get on board if preachers preaching that gay lifestyles are evil and need to be abolished are stopped by using the very law we already have on our books, hate crimes are NOT exceptable, nor is advocating for them...how come such people get a free pass?

I don't understand the fear some get believing that if they don't hate gays they will surely go to hell, who cares honestly? Dead is dead, hell was invented by the catholic church in order to terrify the people into not questioning their leaders....thats a fact...how come intelligent individuals refuse to realize the truth that much of present day religious doctrine is nothing more than made up bs....

If one really believes its simple, Love they neighbor, forgiveness is next to Godliness and treat others as you yourself would wish to be treated...why is that not enough to ensure you feel good about yourself?

[NewHampshireDem]

66. 1/2 of me agrees completely and the other half knows what it is to struggle with one's 'faith'

I remember seeing a bumper sticker that said, 'Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven.' I thought to myself, 'Wow, way to strive to be a better person, eh?'

Not that I'm a fan of that 'ole tyme religion' but ... I think a lot of Christianity today is dominated by what Steven R. Covey describes as the 'Personality Ethic' rather than the 'Character Ethic.' The PE puts how others perceive us first; the CE puts how we are first. (Here's a good summary, if you aren't familiar : http://www.quickmba.com/mgmt/7hab/ ). People are going to these Mega-Churches to be told what they already believe--not to be challenged to truly grow. (Vast over-simplification, I know.)

I dunno what the solution is, except maybe less Leviticus and the Ten Commandments and more of the Gospels and the Beatitudes. :shrug:

FWIW, I'm a Buddhist and I try to make self-improvement (being a better person, husband, father, co-worker) the center of my practice--but it's hard, so that's where the other half comes in. It's hard--but it's also worth doing.

Okay ... how about you and I get together with a nice bottle of wine and solve all the world's problems--then post our answer right here on DU? ;)

(I'm leaving for the night ... it's been a long day, so hopefully we'll catch up on another thread!)

[AuntPatsy]

69. I need retire as well, a rain check on that bottle of wine, its been some time....

O8)

I have enjoyed our repart..thank you, in the craziness of today's GDP you have brought a serene ending...your doing very well in your desire to be a good person...

By the way, I am married to a redneck that you spoke of, and I can promise you, its worse than you might realize...;-)but I have patience

[bhikkhu]

22. I'd settle for leadership.

So far, nothing from HRC.

You cannot "apply for the job", assemble a team of loyal supporters, and then suggest that it would be to your benefit if the competition were assassinated.

HRC is sounding like a sociopath, and her apologists seem to be following the leader as if this is all normal and ok.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

54. No, see, I'm still waiting for Hillary to apologize for voting for the fucking IRAQ WAR.

Then it's time for the McClurkin Apology...

...after which we can talk about apologies for her ghoulish recent comment.

[HuffleClaw]

55. faux outrage works it seems

ESPECIALLY with the media on your side (for now at least)

[cboy4]

58. All of the notorious homophobes around the world refer

to it as faux outrage.

Well done HuffleClaw. :puke:

[HuffleClaw]

65. your post makes no sense at all

but is a fine example of knee jerk thoughtlessness

[Life Long Dem]

59. screw the apology!...

get her out of the race. I don't want her in the race with motives.

[LaPera]

62. Fans? This must be a football game?

[cboy4]

63. Fans, as you know, is short for fanatics.

I decided to abbreviate.

[hfojvt]

67. okay I watched the video of what he said.

Where was the gay hate exactly?

Was it in the word 'suffer'?

"I have suffered with the same feelings."

and you do not consider those feelings to be suffering. It offends you that somebody would consider them to be suffering? Isn't that a matter of taste though? One person's poison is another's pleasure. Some people enjoy the feeling of a six mile jog whereas others would consider it torture. Certainly you know that he was taught to be ashamed of those feelings.

"God delivered me from homosexuality"

Is that gay hate? In what ways? Explain to me how there is an almost unforgiveable amount of hate in those two lines out of a four minute spiel. Maybe you could just direct me to a thread where this was explained. I know McClurkin was endlessly discussed on DU way back when.

[cboy4]

70. It may not be so bad coming from just an ordinary gay,

but this guy is on record as saying:

"

"The abnormal use of my sexuality continued until I came to realize that I was broken and that homosexuality was not God's intention... for my masculinity."

AND

McClurkin has stated that homosexuality is a curse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donnie_McClurkin

He was a well known homophobe before the campaign event, and just in case Obama did not know, he was informed by the gay community.

Yet, he decided to disregard the information and do what he wanted for politically advantageous reasons.

You tell me why he'd allow this man to talk?

And then not even say, "you know, I don't agree with what he says, in retrospect I should not have welcomed him to my campaign, and I'm sorry if I hurt anyone."

See how easy as pie that would have been?

And it wouldn't be the issue it is today.

[hfojvt]

72. He allowed the man to sing

It sounds like you are saying he really did not spew gay hate at the Obama event. It wasn't really what he said there, but "what he is" that makes his speaking unacceptable no matter what he says. Other things he has said characterize him permanently as a bigot and it's unacceptable to associate with bigots and allow them to sing or talk at your events even if they don't sing or say anything particularly hateful at that event.

That's somewhat understandable. Black people would feel the same way if the neo-nazi blondes sang at a Hillary event. But there's another problem according to the GayCityNews.

"A September poll conducted by Winthrop University and ETV showed that 74 percent of South Carolina African Americans believe homosexuality is "unacceptable."" For Obama to agree that McClurkin is a bigot would also seem like he is saying that 74% of his base are also bigots.

The Obama campaign did release this statement: "Obama has said that he 'strongly disagrees' with Pastor McClurkin's comments ..." but if he says "I should not have welcomed him into my campaign" what does that say to the 74% of South Carolina blacks who basically agree with McClurkin? That they aren't welcome either. He could not afford to exclude such a large part of his, and our, base. Hillary wouldn't either.

[cboy4]

74. Hfojvt, he allowed the man to preach as well.

Now then, I have nothing but disrespect for anyone who would place politics ahead of decency -- which is what Obama did if you're arguing he would have hurt the poor little feelings of the 74 percenters, who enjoy many more rights than I do.

I have zero sympathy for that large 74% figure of bigots.

And because they are more important to him than me, no wonder I don't trust him, nor do I like him and nor do I support him.

I will vote for him with a huge clothes pin on my nose because I'm a loyal Democrat.

But I will not do a single thing to help make sure he wins in November, aside from voting for him, then throwing up, and then walking back to my car.

[backscatter712]

73. You're comparing this to McClurking?

Go back on your meds, cboy4!

[cboy4]

75. Go back to reading comprehension school

backscatter712!

"McClurking" You sound so well read. :eyes:

[indimuse]

77. What about JJJ's commment, heading into SC..Hillary's Katrina Tears..TYT says BO camp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEQV4K1eFjI&watch_respons RACE BAITING BEGAN WITH OBAMA! -TYT

"THE RACE THINGS OUT THERE ALL OF SUDDEN, IT WASN'T OUT THERE BEFORE(((BEFORE OBAMA AND CO!!!))"- TYT I;ve been posting for month...not one reply. The denial sickening..and the accusations against the Clintons are a disgrace to our nation.

[Iceburg]

78. Robert Kennedy Jr. issued the following statement this evening:

“It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband's 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense.”

[WinkyDink]

79. So you don't see a difference when a candidate makes such

remarks as Hillary did?

[cboy4]

84. I think it's hypocritical for Obama fans to not feel Obama

ever needs to apologize for anything.

That's what I think.

[Inspired]

80. I don't want an apology. I want her to exit the race...that's all.

[Perry Logan]

82. Image of Hillary backing slowly out of a room full of lunatics.

[cboy4]

85. Yea, the room called Obama Underground.

No disagreement there.

[zulchzulu]

83. Here we go again...look over here! Look over here!

To even compare McClurkin's one performance and Obama's clear opinion about how he is not in agreement with him with a candidate who appears to be wishing that Obama gets shot like RFK is beyond the pale.

Bye bye.

[cboy4]

86. Oh zulchzulu, listen to you .. another fan who feels

everything Hillary says must be all about Obama.

Buh-bye.

[Butch350]

94. Yeah Yeah

And I bet you were the first to say give Obama a break after the MSM took out of context the "Bitter Remark"!

[Dawgs]

89. And many of us agree with you. That doesn't mean she shouldn't apologize.

Now, grow up.

[cboy4]

90. You know Dawgs, I don't appreciate people insinuating

that I'm upset about Obama's association with a homophobe (and my continued calls that he apologize) some how has something to do with maturity.

You must watch all of those black people during the civil rights era and say to yourself, "oh please people, we want you to have equal rights, now grow up."

And where have I written I don't think she should apologize?

You know exactly the point I made.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

91. I don't want her apology...

At this point, I don't give a crap what she does or doesn't think. And I think I speak for the overwhelming majority of Obama supporters both here at DU and elsewhere. The point here is that Senator Clinton has once again proven to be an insensitive lout whose sense of entitlement is so overwhelming that she apparently thinks she can say or do anything without fear of repercussion because of who she is.

Now read that last sentence and substitute "Senator Clinton" for "President Bush" or "Vice President Cheney" and you'll be getting closer to the reason why so many of us are not supporting her in this election.

[weezy2736]

93. Ok, there's one thing Obama did wrong.

Do we really need to make a comparative list of the faults of both campaigns? I'm pretty sure I know which one has had the least screw ups.

A good portion of our country is sexist/racist/homophobic. A much smaller portion is pro-assassinationofthebestleadersinamerikunhistory.
McClurkin happened last winter? This happened all of yesterday.
Who the fuck is McClurkin? Who the fuck doesn't know who Robert Kennedy is?
McClurkin's words aren't Obama's words; Hillary's words are Hillary's words.
Republicans use anti-gay messages every day. Republicans have never called for the assassination of a political figure.

Even if you want to use the excuse "she was just citing examples of other primaries that went into June..." you have to assume she's still trying to win (Bill didn't do it until June, too!). It's fuckin' plain as day.

Do you see why this gets a little irritating? Really, if you can't see it now, it's time for retina correction.

[cbc5g]

96. HOW LONG HAVE WE BEEN WAITING FOR AN APOLOGY ON THE IRAQ WAR?

HUH? Tell me that. How long?


How many deaths have occurred and how much money have we wasted because of Hillary's vote? And no apology. You do know that she lost the nomination because of that vote, right?

[Warren DeMontague]

98. ***********CRICKETS******************

[cboy4]

104. At any rate, back to the issue at hand....when is Obama

going to apologize.

Then we'll get to Hillary.

[slinkerwink]

97. Here's his response to the Donnie McClurkin incident

Barack Obama: A Call for Full Equality

Over the last several weeks, the question of GLBT equality was placed on center stage by the appearance of Donnie McClurkin at one of my campaign events. McClurkin is a talented performer and a beloved figure among many African Americans and Christians around the country. At the same time, he espouses beliefs about homosexuality that I completely reject.

The events of the last several weeks are not the occasion that I would have chosen to discuss America's divisions on gay rights and my own deep commitment to GLBT equality. Now that the issue is before us, however, I do not intend to run away from it. These events have provided an important opportunity for us to confront a difficult fact: There are good, decent, moral people in this country who do not yet embrace their gay brothers and sisters as full members of our shared community.

If we want to repeal DOMA, repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and implement fully inclusive laws outlawing hate crimes and discrimination in the workplace, we need to bring the message of GLBT equality to people who are not yet convinced.

That's why I brought this message of inclusiveness to all of America in my keynote address at the 2004 Democratic convention. I reiterated that message in the speech announcing my candidacy for President. Since beginning my campaign, I have been talking about GLBT equality on the stump, from rural farmers to Southern preachers. Just as important, I have been listening to what all Americans have to say in return. I will never compromise on my commitment to equal rights for all GLBT Americans. But neither will I close my ears to the voices of those who still need to be convinced. That is the work that we need to do if we are going to move forward together. It is difficult. It is challenging. And it is necessary.

The American people have been poorly served by two terms of an administration that seeks to manipulate us through fear: fear over national security, fear over immigrants and fear over gay and lesbian couples in loving relationships. Americans are yearning for leadership that will put an end to the fear mongering and instead begin empowering us once again to reach for the America we know is possible. I believe that we can achieve the goal of full equality for the millions of GLBT people in this country. To do that, we need leadership that appeals to the best parts of the human spirit, rather than the worst. Together, we will achieve real equality for all Americans, gay and straight alike.

And here's his interview excerpt with Russert:

MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe that it is something that you are born gay and that--or that you can change your behavior?

SEN. OBAMA: I do not believe being gay or lesbian is a choice. And so I disagree with Reverend McClurkin. But understand, Tim, part of what I hope to offer as president is the ability to reach to people that I don't agree with, and the evangelical community is one where the Democratic Party, I think, we have generally seen as hostile. We haven't been reaching out to them, and I think that if we're going to makes significant progress on critical issues that we face, whether it's education or healthcare or energy or our foreign policy in this country, we've got to be able to get beyond our comfort zones and just talk to people we don't like. And--or just talk to people we like, or people that we agree with on every single issue. And so when I--one of the things that I've tried to do is to reach out to the evangelical community and tell them very clearly where I disagree. I've talked to African-American ministers. There's a problem of homophobia in the African-American community. I will go into churches, I will go into meetings with ministers and say, "I disagree with you on these issues. This is not how I interpret my faith." But the fact that we're having a conversation, I think, allows the possibly that I will change their minds, make them more tolerant of these issues. They may not agree with me on this, but ultimately, it allows me to bridge some of the cultural divisions that have, I think, prevented us from making progress in this country for so long.

[Warren DeMontague]

99. **********CRICKETS**********

[cboy4]

100. That's NOT an apology......this reminds of when you have an

essay question, of which you don't know the answer.

And you think the more you write, the better chance the professor will say, "oh, not bad."

Ughhh, nice try slinkerwink.

[cbc5g]

103. A Hillary supporter has no ground to talk about apologies.

We're still waiting for the apology on the Iraq war vote. Unlike inviting someone who Obama didn't know was against GLBT rights, the Iraq war vote Hillary made has brought our nation into considerable debt and costed the lives of 4000 U.S. troops and countless Iraqi lives. Whats worse?

[cboy4]

105. Well since I didn't vote for Obama or Hillary in the California

Primary, I guess I can talk about it.

Ha cbc5g?

[cboy4]

108. Listen Einstein....you can't edit your OP and insert a question

after I already posted an answer.

And when you edit, it's customary to write something like "on edit:" and explain what the changes are so everyone can follow along.

[Bluebear]

113. 'who Obama didn't know was against GLBT rights' - uh, yes he did.

This was no surprise to the campaign, let's be honest about that much.

[yardwork]

101. cboy4, you and I would be justifiably outraged if someone used Matthew Shepherd's murder

to score political points. I would be the first to condem it. So would you.

Hillary Clinton's comments are indefensible. This is not about what is said on an anonymous bulletin board. This is about what a candidate says.

If Obama said something about gay people being killed, and tied it to a self-serving excuse for staying in a race he'd already lost, I'd be furious with him. He hasn't done that.

You and I are in complete agreement about the Donnie McClurkin incident. However, it's very different when a candidate actually says something themselves.

[cboy4]

106. Sorry yardwork, but I don't care what the Obama people

want in terms of a Hillary apology, when they refuse to call on their candidate to apologize.

I appreciate and understand your point, but I think my point is clear.

[yardwork]

107. I'm an "Obama person" and I'm not calling for an apology.

Sometimes "I'm sorry" isn't enough, and this is one of them.

Like you, I'm disappointed that Obama ever used McClurkin, and I'm disappointed that he never apologized. That doesn't excuse Clinton at all.

[CaptJasHook]

109. I know my apology won't help cboy, but here it is anyway.

I can only say that Obama continues to avoid outright support for the GLTB community. However, he has given no indication that he will not support Gay rights and issues.

I hope you understand what a political football this is in the African American community and to a Centrist candidate. That is what we get for ending up with the 2 most conservative candidates.

[cboy4]

111. Yes, of course your apology helps. And thank you so

much for being a model Democrat with your classy response.

:)

[apocalypsehow]

102. Hey OP, posts #96 & 97 in this thread require your attention. Why don't you give them a look?

:shrug:

[VotesForWomen]

110. they're insane. they have become completely unhinged.

[JoFerret]

112. You'll have to wait a long time

for that one.