FAILURE!!!

[Hutzpa]

Failed on Health care

Failed on NAFTA

It is proven that Hillary Clinton has always used gender for her
FAILURES.

What say you eh!

Agree to disagree or disagree to agree....

[OzarkDem]

1. Laid the groundwork for health care reform

She had the courage to take on the issue and get the dialogue started when no one else would touch it.

Tell us again what Obama has done for health care reform, other than letting insurance companies control it.

[Hutzpa]

I don't see evidence

where Obama has allowed insurance companies controlling Health care what I do
know is there policies are a tad different and Obama has a very clear plan
as to how he wants to generate Health Care to the American people.

Laying the ground work could not be considered as an accomplishment, and I see
no reason why that should be seen as such, this is the problem with Americans
of late, we have become so incline into mediocre achievement that a simple
ground work could be seen as accomplishment.

[Hutzpa]

2. Yes yes yes yes double post n/t

[AllentownJake]

3. Her "courage"

Has caused the issue to be a third rail for 16 years and nothing to be done except that awful Part D legislation which was a gift to Pharmaceuticals and Insurance Companies.

She ran that Health care reform committee like she has run her campaign and she failed at that too. Than she blamed sexism. Pretty much her MO whenever she FAILS its because she's a woman.

[Butch350]

4. 1. Laid the groundwork for health care reform

And she is still dialogue-ing it! I'm sorry, am I being sexist?

[book_worm]

5. actually '92 voters wanted health care reform and congress was receptive

but she was put in charge and operated in secret and came up with a plan nobody could support. She failed us. President Clinton should not have entrusted such an important piece of legislation to somebody with no experience in forming legislation and in getting such priorities thru congress.

[QC]

10. Very true.

The fact that the health care industry poured literally hundreds of millions of dollars into defeating the plan had absolutely nothing to do with its failure.

How old were you in 1993?

[DogPoundPup]

6. Healthcare and the Clintons....HA

It is almost hard to believe now that the reason health insurance was on the Clintons' first agenda at all, back in 1992, was because there was a mini movement for single-payer in the country. Labor unions, citizens groups, doctors' and nurses' groups, some business leaders, had all been agitating, making it an election issue in other races, writing letters, organizing meetings, protests, media attention. Bill Clinton rode that wave and immediately after being elected, while in the transition, he asked his allies to shut up; Wall Street was already breathing down his neck, the right was bringing heat, trust him and he would, as promised, "put people first" when it came to health care.

Bill gave the job of health care reform to Hillary, who studiously interviewed all the players, at one point asking Dr. David Himmelstein, a major exponent of a Canadian-style system "where's the power?" behind such a reform. "Seventy-five percent of the American people," he answered, to which she replied, "Tell me something interesting."

edited to add.....N-A-F-T-A! remember?

[smiley_glad_hands]

8. You are correct.

She and Bill did the most to get the conversation started nationally back in the 90's. Obama has a policy that will be vetted by congress when he gets elected come November. Trying to be conciliatory here.

[cliffordu]

11. Except the reason it failed is because she DIDN'T start a dialogue.

Go read the papers from that period of time.

She acted like she knew better than anyone else, kept it all in house when there was bipartisan support for universal health care and SHE FUCKED IT UP. BY NOT LISTENING.

She made it synonymous with Clinton hubris, arrogance and the same self-serving bullshit we've seen this election cycle.

FAIL

[TahitiNut]

18. "Groundwork" = Dug the hole, dumped it in, buried it for 20 years.

Yup. That's "groundwork." :eyes: Meanwhile, EVERY OTHER NATION IN THE INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD HAS IT.

:puke:

[Zavulon]

23. Did you ever read the plan?

Jail sentences of up to 15 years for seeking health care outside your assigned HMO, which you were to be stuck with whether you liked your doctor or not? The system telling doctors where they had to live depending on their specialties, or forcing them into different specialties if they wanted to stay put?

(Insert Soviet national anthem here)

Yeesh. "Sorry, doctor, but we have too many radiologists in your area already. Either move to (insert name of faraway area here) or be prepared to practice proctology if you want to stay where you are." My sister's first husband was in med school and was fully prepared to drop out if it had passed, as were several of his classmates.

Hillary's plan was so bad that it actually made the current system look preferable. If Obama fails to get health care reform passed it'll suck - but I'll live with it, because I know what Hillary wanted for us.

If I ran for office on a platform of executing all convicts without appeal, would people give me credit for having the courage of taking on the issue of crime? No. This is why I will never understand why Hillary gets credit for "courage" here. She took a golden opportunity and blew it with her secret meetings and her draconian bullshit. By the way, I seem to recall plenty of people discussing the issue, so giving her credit for "getting the dialogue started when no one else would touch it" is just wrong, too.

The only people who benefited from Hillary's insanity and absolute mishandling of her big chance were yacht dealers, as sales went up several hundred percent for a couple of months. Doctors in Florida were buying large boats so as to be able to practice medicine in international waters. Yep, not only did Hillary screw the pooch without lubricant, but she helped to lay the foundation for a health care black market well before her joke of a proposal died a just death.

Hillary deserves no more credit for "the courage to take on the issue and get the dialogue started when no one else would touch it" than John McCain deserves credit for "taking money out of politics."

[Clark2008]

33. "Hillary's plan was so bad that it actually made the current system look preferable."

Maybe that was the plan.

:shrug:

[Zavulon]

36. Maybe.

In 1993 you could buy a hardcover copy of the entire plan. I bought it and read it cover to cover, as did both of my parents. My father and I said stuff like "what a crock of shit this is," and my mother came to the same conclusion you did, adding "if they ever provided universal health care, they'd have a lot less to run on in the future."

I think you and my mom are on to something.

[kenny blankenship]

38. If you mean she dug a big hole and helped bury it

yes, that groundwork--I think she calls it spadework actually-- she did take a lead role in.

[smiley_glad_hands]

7. Its over, she lost, no need to continue with these types of threads. sorry

[VolcanoJen]

9. Gotta give her credit for braving the minefield of health care reform.

Her effort didn't doom it for a dozen years... the Republicans and the "Health Care" lobby did.

Even as a diehard Obama supporter, I know that much. Hillary made mistakes along the way, but what she attempted in 1993 was courageous and admire her for it, to this day.

[woolldog]

16. I don't.

She couldn't get it through a democratic congress. How sad is that?

[VolcanoJen]

20. Fighting the ferocious "health care" (oxymoron) lobby for the first time ever?

Impressive.

You've got to give the lady her due on this one. I truly believe that. No other voice in America was fighting for national health care back in those days. Her failure cannot be laid at her feet, not on this count.

[woolldog]

24. Democrats have been talking about national healthcare since FDR

If it was so important to the Clinton administration, an amateur shouldn't have been running the show.

[VolcanoJen]

26. You're misplacing blame, you really are.

Hillary never had my vote for POTUS, but she sure has my vote for kick-ass give-me-another-crack-at-those-fucknuts Health Care Czar.

[woolldog]

27. "those who cannot learn from history....

are doomed to repeat it." --George Santayana

[VolcanoJen]

28. Vis-a-vis history, Hillary *had* learned on health care.

She's not my candidate for POTUS. But she's sure as hell my candidate for Kickin' Ass on health care. Name a modern Democrat with better street cred on this battle... seriously, please convince me.

[woolldog]

37. What has she ever "kicked ass" on?

Why does she have street cred on this issue? because she failed at it 15 years ago?

Why was National Health Care shelved for the rest of the Clinton administration then? Why didn't she fight for it after '93 if she's such a "fighter" and kicks so much ass?

[PBS Poll-435]

19. That is a very nice thing to say. It really is.

And I feel the same way about her efforts in '93.

:hug:

Thanks Jen.

[VolcanoJen]

22. It really is ludicrous to suggest she "doomed" national health care by "fighting her ass off."

Hillary was as tenacious then as she is now. Sure, she made rookie mistakes. But at least she gave us all a voice and a goddamned mission, one so many of us are fighting for to this day.

Hillary for Universal Health Care Czar. She deserves an unprecedented role in the Obama Administration, and I can't think of one to which she's better suited. Hell, look out, lobbyists and wingnuts, once you've got Hillary 2.0 up your collective greedy asses. :-)

[KittyWampus]

35. she fought the work Congress had done and that includes Democrats. She and Ira Magaziner

were arrogant and clueless.

Sorry, but you need to read up on what happened. Here is a thread I started quite a while ago on this topic.

Hillary pissed off Bill Bradley, as good a Democrat as ever lived.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4659677

[KittyWampus]

34. VolcanoJen, you are very wrong about Health Care. Hillary and Clinton crony Ira Magaziner

took over Health Care reforms when it had already been worked on.

They ditched all the plans that had already been made.

Magaziner was INCOMPETENT and Hillary wielded a sledgehammer.

If Bill Clinton WANTED to doom Health Care reform but without killing it appearing overtly as his goal, he couldn't have done a better job.

[PBS Poll-435]

12. Who the FUCK would be talking about Universal Health Care in the United States of FUCKIN' America

Without Hillary Clinton?

Nader?

[JVS]

30. Nixon back in 1971

[PBS Poll-435]

32. It had been a while...

Hadn't it?

[Occam Bandage]

39. Not too much longer than the difference between Clinton's plan and now, actually.

21 years between Nixon's plan and Clinton's, and 15 between Clinton's plan and now.

[scarletwoman]

13. Oh just stop. This is stupid and counterproductive. Taunting and crowing is for juveniles.

Please grow up so we can win an election with plenty of allies on our side.

Peace,
sw

[PBS Poll-435]

14. But, But,

:thumbsup:

Thanks

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VolcanoJen]

17. Have you been drinking?

Or just spamming and drinking?

:shrug:

[TexasObserver]

25. yes, stop bs honging

[coyotespaw]

29. I have not yet begun to bshong... n/t

[JVS]

31. Bshong? This is HUGH!!!!11!!! SERIES!!!!!!111!!!!

[livingmadness]

21. Give it a rest.