BREAKING!!!!!! Barr just got the Liberterian nomination PAPA is done

[bigdarryl]

Very good news for us Barr will be running with another rightwinger Root.Put a fork in the rethugs there DONE!!!!!

[Johnny__Motown]

1. WOOT... Ross Perot Revisited...

[Cleita]

Gotta link yet?

That is good news!

[bigdarryl]

3. Yes C-SPAN

[ossman]

2. Get ready for some great debates ala Perot v. GWB

[newmajority]

9. You think having an ex-Repuke congressman on the ticket will get the Libertarians in the GE debate?

Maybe if they were still doing real debates, but in the corporate media scripted format, I doubt it's going to happen. Hell, it was probably Perot's involvement in 1992 that caused the party bosses to restrict the debates in the first place.

[ossman]

12. I'm sure the Obama campaign is working on that since Barr got the nom.

[AZ Criminal JD]

17. The debate commission is made up of ex-DNC and RNC heads.

They will never let in Nader or Barr and Obama can't do anything about that. Both sides have to agree.

[ossman]

20. Yes we can. Yes we can. People power dude.

[DangerousRhythm]

96. Nobody would love this more than me, but...

...I really doubt the media will give the time to a Libertarian candidate. I saw what happened in 2004. They actually barred the candidate, Michael Badnarik, along with the Green Party guy, from even going to the debates. They got arrested and the story was never even seen on cable news... completely buried.

I wish this Ross Perot thing would happen though. :)

[mcctatas]

4. Poor Mike Gravel....

He got beat by bob bar? :wtf:

[cbc5g]

32. It's probably better for us that he didn't win the nomination

People remember him being a Democrat and might vote for McCain over him. Bob Barr on the other hand has the libertarian *R* vote.

[iamthebandfanman]

62. i think its better for him too

mike needs to come help us take the party back ;)

[Blondiegrrl]

89. I'll second that. I wish Obama would give him a position in his Cabinet. n/t

[DangerousRhythm]

95. Yep. I know someone...

...who wanted to vote for Gravel. That vote now goes to Obama. :)

[DerekJ]

5. Can someone actually explain how big his influence on the race will be?!

How many are expected to vote for him?! etc...

[Aloha Spirit]

7. Well, we can start with this: 76% of Republicans are unsatisfied with the three main candidates.

[Carrieyazel]

105. But few Repubes are real Libertarians. Highly doubt they'd go with Barr.

[bigdarryl]

8. easy the rethugs are in a disarray and the right wing party of the part hates PAPA

[TheFarseer]

30. if he got over 1% of the vote, I'd be awful surprised

No one circles the wagons like the Republicans. Almost all of them will fall into line because Sean Hanitty tells them Obama is too liberal. And the ones that don't listen to RW radio will have never heard of Bob Barr, so they're not likely to vote for him. He will have no greater impact than Buchanan in 2000.

[IsItJustMe]

37. I completely disagree with your assessment their sunshine. Barr is very anti-illegal immegration

and he wants out of Iraq and he wants to cut the hell out of the federal government. He will be a natural choice for many Republicans who don't like McCain at all. And there are many of them. Heard it hear first.

[TheFarseer]

58. Tom Tancredo was very illegal immigration

and he was a complete non-starter AND that was a primary rather than a General election. Bob Barr gets no where. You're thinking like a Demcorat (voting like they need to earn your vote instead of picking a letter) to predict Republican behavior and that's not going to work.

[DLnyc]

59. C/B/P 43.0/37.4/18.9 in 1992 (Repubs didn't circle so well in that year.)

In 1992, Perot took 18.9% of the popular vote, allowing Clinton to win with just 43.0%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_presidential_election

[MonkeyFunk]

64. But Perot didn't run to the left or right

of either party. He ran in the middle.

LIbertarians aren't in the middle of anything.

[DLnyc]

84. Not exactly in the middle, true, but also neither right of Repubs nor left

of Dems, in most things.

I think of them as agreeing with Repubs in being opposed to 'government programs', but also agreeing with Dems in being opposed to 'culture war'-type government interference in private lives.

At any rate, I would say Ron Paul's popularity among Repubs seems to say that Libertarians can take a lot of votes from McCaint.

[nolabels]

91. I think he ran for his life actually

People giggled and laughed when he said he was getting out of the race because of death threats to his daughter. I wonder how that humor seems now :shrug:

[TheFarseer]

72. It's a totally different situation

I've read books on Perot's presidential run. Perot was self funded and he funded himself very well. He was very charismatic and the media was in love with him (well, for a while) and he was all over the media. No one has ever heard of Bob Barr. Do you honestly think you'll see a TV ad for Bob Barr? Let alone 30 minute infomercials outlining his plan for governing. Unless the election becomes lop-sided, he'll be doing well to get over 1%.

[DLnyc]

83. Good points. But, on the other hand, many Republicans are fed up with

the crap they've been handed, according to surveys I've seen. They may fuel some interest.

By the way, since you've studied it, what do you think of the idea, which was always my impression, that Perot was largely interested in torpedoing Bush Sr.'s candidacy? He certainly seemed to go out of his way to rip old George apart in the debates, and I don't really remember him being very tough on Clinton. I would love to hear your take on this.

[TheFarseer]

88. I think he wanted to make a point

he wanted to change the way government worked. He wanted the government to do what is best for the nation and not what is best for the special interests. I think after the media started turning on him and Bush in particular started going after him, he realized that being president would not be like running his own company. He simply couldn't stand criticism. He probably went back and forth on if he actually wanted to be president. He did go after Clinton, but Bush was just such a big target he took most of Perot's fire. It's quite possible he decided if he wasn't going to be president, then Clinton (who took on some of his platform) would be preferable, but I definitely don't think he got in the race with the idea of throwing it to the Democrat.

[DLnyc]

90. Interesting. Thanks for your take on it.

". . . realized that being president would not be like running his own company. He simply couldn't stand criticism"

That certainly rings true, from my memory.

[HooptieWagon]

106. True, Perot had money to buy a lot of media

I don't see Barr/Libertarians having funding for any media pressence at all - and the resultant low polling #s will be used as a rationale to keep them out of debates. However, it will help somewhat - if only 2 or 3% of pukes are educated enough to be aware of the libertarian candidate and vote for him, that may be enough votes to sway a few states... particularly out west.

[Zynx]

102. Clinton would have won anyway. About 45% of Perot's vote was from Clinton.

[Alexander]

97. A lot of people heard of Bob Barr during Clinton's impeachment.

He was very vocal about calling for Clinton to be impeached.

He isn't a complete nobody.

[KSinTX]

34. Barr picks up the protest vote

McCain hasn't broken 80 percent in ANY primary since becoming the presumptive nominee (with the exception of OR). Ron Paul and Mike Huckabee (and Uncommitted) have sucked about 25 percent or more of the Republican vote CONSITENTLY even after Huck dropped out. McCain's pulled just 76/77/74/73 in the last four contests (WV/IN/NC/PA respectively). ONLY in PA was Paul, the only viable contender, in the number two slot. The first primary after Huckabee ended his bid and endorsed McCain, McCain drew only 55 percent of Republican votes and Huckabee STILL got 29 percent of them.

He recently won just 72% of Republican primary in KY with a near even split between Huck, Paul and Uncommitted getting the balance. In OR, he hit his first 85% (Huck wasn't on the ballot) with Paul pulling 15%.


:hi: HTH

[whistle]

56. About 2%

[SoFlaJet]

75. Barr got over 70,000 signatuires from NC alone

that may throw NC to Obama which would be HUGH11!!!1!11!! I'm series

[Swamp Rat]

6. YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[backscatter712]

10. Poach those Repuke votes, Barr!!!

[LSparkle]

11. Yep, Barr will definitely draw votes away from Bomb Bomb ...

[FredScuttle]

13. I would call him "Bob Nader"

except for the fact that the Libertarian Party is only on the ballot in 28 states and is missing in some key battleground states (PA, VA, OH)

[eleny]

14. Whe-e-e-e!

[grantcart]

Barr has both more integrity and more intelligence than McCain

He will get votes.

[DaDooRonRon]

15. Hmmn, I'm confused

Republicans have third party challenger - good!

Democratic process at work. Better chance for "our team" to win.


Democrats have third party challenger - bad!

How dare anyone run against the saints on donkeys! Our team could lose!


You DO realize you're becoming a parody of yourselves, don't you?

[tularetom]

29. You DO realize this is DEMOCRATIC Underground don't you?

Why the fuck should we be unhappy that somebody is going to take votes away from a Republican?

[DaDooRonRon]

63. Damn, I missed it by 2 minutes

This time I had 6:00 in the "this is DEMOCRATIC underground" pool. :)

Happiness has nothing to do with it, it's just humorous that you have become what you condemn, and then lash out at anyone who points it out.

In order to take you seriously you really need to have consistent positions - otherwise the whole thing just becomes an exercise in back-patting.

[The Doctor.]

31. Yes, you are....

The implication is that when something happens to keep the people who will lay waste to our rights, our economy, our Constitution, our nation, and the WORLD out of power it is good, and when it keeps someone consciencious who will help our nation and the world prosper, it's bad.

Meanwhile, I didn't see anyone praising this as a 'triumph of Democracy', but rather just a triumph of fortune.


Now, obviously you're not interested in fooling anyone, so I'll ask you; Do you want to stick around and learn some things about the true nature of of the problem we face as a nation, or are you only planning on staying a short while?

[IsItJustMe]

38. Me thinks you are posting at the wrong message board. Not so much for the Democrats, huh?

[DaDooRonRon]

66. Big time for progressive positions, not that big on empty rhetoric

Find me Democrats who'll bring single payer universal health care, who'll not hold a Kleenex every time Israel sneezes, who will not buy into this whole 'war on terra" bullshit - I'm right there on the garrison with you.

Tell me I should vote for Mainstream Corporate X because he isn't as bad as Mainstream Corporate Y - not so much.

[Graybeard]

42. You refer to Democrats as "you" not "we"....

...Freepers are so transparent.

[MaineDem]

45. I noticed that right away.

Very interesting...

[DaDooRonRon]

68. Oh please

There are about a half dozen people here who know me in person - the sounds you hear in the background are them laughing hysterically at the "freeper" comment.

You see, I met them in Crawford, Texas a while back - visiting a woman in a ditch and trying to end a war.

Of course, the "you/we" was deliberate - sometimes it's fun to watch all the children think they did a "got'cha." :)

[Spazito]

48. Gee, your user name reminded me of my favorite song....

It went something like this:

Na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey-ey, goodbye

[DaDooRonRon]

71. I'm in awe of your rapier wit

'Cept the song in my user name is by The Crystals in '64, and yours is by Steam in '69.

(ask your parents) :)

[Arugula Latte]

51. Enjoy your stay!

:hi:

[uberllama42]

80. You're giving folks too much credit

I don't see any pretense of "Democratic process at work". All I see is partisanship, which as others have pointed out is exactly what you would expect on a partisan message board.

[bigdarryl]

16. McCain just got NADERIZED!!!!!

as Randy Rhodes says

[Graybeard]

18. On name recognition alone Barr will get MSM coverage.

With any other nominee the Libertarian Party would have been ignored. This is good news indeed.

[KSinTX]

19. I am soooo very happy!

[cbc5g]

21. That will draw AT LEAST 3 or 4% points in states in the general

Can you say....NADERIZED!!

[Carrieyazel]

35. Not a chance. Barr would be lucky to get 1% of the vote.

[cbc5g]

36. I dont think you understand how many Republicans dont like McCain

Especially evangelicals after he trashed the endorsements of the pastors lately.

[IsItJustMe]

40. Go piss on someone elses parade.

[JustinL]

94. Zogby has him at 3% in a McCain-Obama match-up

The survey hints that Libertarian Bob Barr could do some serious damage to McCain by stealing support among the very conservative and libertarian voters. Barr wins 10% support among those self-described “very conservative” voters, and wins 22% among philosophical (not necessarily “capital L”) libertarians. As McCain continues to angle for moderate support on the campaign trail, Barr could create havoc for him among McCain’s political base.

link

[Alexander]

98. That's a good start - I'll take it.

[AllentownJake]

22. Now all he needs is a Ron Paul Endorsement

That will be a good kick to the nuts of Grandpa.

[bigdarryl]

23. Ron Paul is staying a rethug

[seasat]

24. Great news! This really helps us in the electoral map.

I was just searching for info on Barr to post something on an electoral map thread when I ran across his web page. They had a live stream of him accepting the nomination. Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Alaska (possibly Texas) are states that (IMHO) would lean towards a Libertarian candidate. McSame is only ahead by single digits in those states over Obama. Barr could siphon votes from McSame turning those states blue. The libertarians are especially pissed at McSame over his campaign finance reform. Barr is from Georgia. He may pull in some GA voters that are sympathetic to him and with a rallying of African-American voters, we might put that state into play.

[cbc5g]

25. a Ron Paul endorsement is very likely IMO

And that will seal the deal for the huge defeat for Republicans in the fall.

He only became a Republican to get in the debates and hes quite popular with many on the right who are libertarian leaning.

[Brundle_Fly]

28. a ron paul vice presidency would be even better.

[nickinSTL]

53. Paul won't be Barr's VP...

Barr did a deal on the convention floor with Wayne Allyn Root, who polled 3rd in the 5th round of voting, that he'd get the VP spot in exchange for endorsing Barr. Barr agreed. I didn't watch to see if Root actually got the spot, but I'm guessing he did.

[JustinL]

93. yes, Root will be VP

Denver - Wayne Allyn Root was selected on Sunday as the 2008 nominee for vice president at the Libertarian National Convention. Root will join former Congressman and Libertarian Party presidential candidate Bob Barr on the Libertarian ticket in Nov.

http://www.lp.org/media/article_590.shtml">lp.org

[H2O Man]

26. Great news.

There are a few states where he will make a significant difference. Also, if he can be included in any of the debates, he will expose McCain's unattractive nature.

[FrenchieCat]

27. Especially considering that McCain has no base......

Fundies hate him, especially now that he has renounced his two hate-stirring pastors.

McCain's only hope now resides in Hillary Supporters! The marriage to embody the NeoCon AntiChoice platform! :rofl:

[mamalone]

47. Can you help me out here??

I hate to admit my ignorance... but I don't know much about Barr. Where does he stand on the socially conservative issues? How do you think fundies will feel about him?

[H2O Man]

55. They will like him.

He takes a couple positions that appear to overlap with liberals, because he has more appreciation for the Constitution than the neoconservatives. But he is still a very socially conservative person, who will have more appeal to a large number of republicans than McCain.

[mamalone]

sounds good to me!

:D

[Spazito]

57. Here is an article about him...

snip

"The possibility of a run by Barr has sent shudders through the mainstream of the Republican party.
Barr, who will probably not declare his intentions for several days, has already been labeled ng.
A run by Barr could be to John McCain “what Ralph Nader was to Al Gore — ruinous,” wrote George Will in Newsweek. Some party experts believe Barr could siphon off essential conservative votes from Sen. John McCain, about whom many rightward voters have been less than enthusiastic.

Right-talking radio hosts — Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham, and Ann Coulter — have expressed reservations about McCain or have been downright dismissive.

The American Spectator editorialized last month that “conservatives see the choice of McCain or the Democrats as analogous to picking between being punched in the stomach or kneed in the groin.”
Enter Bob Barr, who rose to prominence during the 1990s as a Republican party pit bull.

He led the charge to impeach Bill Clinton, wrote the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act (which said states did not have to recognize gay marriages performed in other states), and was a self-appointed four-star general in the “war on drugs.” All impeccable conservative credentials.
But after losing his House seat in 2002, Barr underwent a conversion of sorts.


end of snip

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/politics/18582534.html

I think he can pull votes from McCain.

[mamalone]

65. Thanks so much!

I love DU! :)

[SoFlaJet]

77. this is one of the better sides of DU Mama

I used to be able to ask questions like that whenever I needed to, until you would start to be called names by the Clinton people for not knowing. It's good to see we're getting back to that.

[msallied]

70. Hear hear!

Almost all of the true Republicans I know can't stand John McCain and have vowed to not vote for him. And they won't, either.

[Carrieyazel]

33. Buchanan got the Reform nom in 2000, Why wasn't Shrub done?

Give me a break. Barr won't even come close to 1% of the vote.

[Vinca]

39. But the diehard crazies despise McCain. And now the fundies

don't like him either. If we can't win this year with anyone, we ought to fold our tents and disband the party.

[cbc5g]

41. And they aren't factoring Ron Paul in the equation either

He got over 10% of the puke vote in many of their primaries.

[Vinca]

43. Plus they're planning to create a stink at the convention.

That will be entertaining!:rofl:

[MonkeyFunk]

44. And the diehard crazies and fundies

won't vote for Barr - he's been working with their most hated enemy: the ACLU.

And considering the love for Ron Paul shown here, I'm not sure he'll hurt McCain disproportionately.

[grantcart]

74. If he pulls 5% in AZ then AZ is in play

[MonkeyFunk]

85. But I don't see why

he would take votes disproportionately from mcCain. Given the love for Ron Paul here, I think he's just as likely to pull votes from the Dem nominee.

[New Dawn]

81. He is between 3 and 6% in the polls lately.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/will_third_party_candidates_tip_the_presidential_race

I suspect that he will get over 1% of the popular vote.

[pompano]

46. I hope I'm wrong....

Bob will run and run for one thing. Bab Barr knows he is unelectable. A less than common sense zonbie could see through this. Bob Barr's candidate hopes is nothing more than a last ditch effort to keep McCain just right leaning enough to bring out the base that would otherwise sit home This is to keep McCain supporters to do a slide to the right. The Right is not happy with Obama, Clinton scares the beejeezus out of them and the Republicans that show signs of sfifting to the center blows their agenda out of the water.

Mark my words. When the polls start showing a more than just passing shift from McCain to Barr, Barr will exit stage left so quick he'll soom be forgotten. This is a stunt to scare McCain to the right and get the Republican fence straddlers off of the fence.

Oldest game in the book.

[FrenchieCat]

49. And since 80% of the nation believes that the "right" is the wrong direction......

McCain should go to the right, where he belongs.

That provides with a bigger contrast between McCain and Obama.

I think that bodes well for Democrats this year.

[salguine]

50. Don't be so cocky.

I've lost track of how many times Democrats have said "We can't lose now!" and then the dust clears and they've lost, and they're standing there wondering what the hell happened.

[FrenchieCat]

52. Cocky?

Not This Time!

[Blarch]

54. Thanks Bob, we are pulling for you.

[quakerboy]

60. Now if only

Ron Paul would join Barr as VP, I would be very happy.

[iamthebandfanman]

61. i feel bad for the liberterians...

they nominated someone who pretty much has stood against half the things they believe in.

how many people did you put in jail for drug crimes there mr barr :b

[msallied]

69. Good point, but...

that's the problem with the Libertarian Party and why they usually lose elections. They can never get someone in who consistently represents their beliefs. Ron Paul was one of those people (for the most part), but he ran as an (R) so he'd have a fighting chance.

[JustinL]

92. I guess they'll have to abandon their slogan now

"The Party of Principle" my ass!

[SoCalDem]

67. Here comes Georgia for Obama & probably NC too

Loves me some Bob Barr

If Paul stays on as an independent, and Barr's in it, we can also win Alaska & some other Bible-belty places :)

[grantcart]

73. How big could this be?

Right now McCain is only polling 51% in his home state of AZ

If Barr picks off 5% of that and Obama picks up Webb or Clark and gains 5 points Arizona is in play and that alone will mean his money dries up and his base will go away. If you have to fight for your home state its fork time.

[frogmarch]

76. Republicanz will like Barr because

of the way Barr took after Bill Clinton in the Monica thing.

[New Dawn]

78. K&R

[MrsT]

79. Ross Perot had nothing to do with Clinton's victories

Polls and research indicate that Clinton would have won with or without Perot.

This isn't a reply to you, but reply to others on this thread.

[Johnny__Motown]

82. I agree the numbers don't support it but I think Ross "muddied the waters" in the debates and

in other campaigning.


It did turn out to be 2 against 1 with Clinton and Perot attacking Bush.

[Frank Booth]

86. Excellent news!

If Barr can pull only 2-3% of the vote, that could make a huge difference. Go Barr!

[ruby slippers]

87. Barr none, this might be an enjoyable election now in the end....

[DangerousRhythm]

99. How can we help get him on the ballot in WV and OK?

"Barr said he expects the party to be on the ballot in at least 48 states and perhaps all 50 if the party can qualify in West Virginia and Oklahoma. Barr said he also expects to be invited to the national political debates by qualifying with poll support of 15 percent or more of registered voters."

Source: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080526/D90T730G0.html

[SanchoPanza]

100. Watched much of the LP Convention on C-SPAN

A lot of disgruntled Republican's are turning Libertarian. Barr's VP nominee, Wayne Allen Root, is cut from the same gib. They basically took over the convention and pushed out the more liberal-leaning members of the party (Ruwart, Phillies, Smith) who, like all true Libertarians, were too ego-ridden to see it all coming and back a single candidate. Root is merely trying to ride Barr's "coattails" to further prominance in 2012.

Barr won't take the LP anywhere. He's consistantly been a firm proponent of expanding military spending and counter-narcotics efforts. It may be interesting to see what effect his campaign will have on states with higher-than-utterly-abyssmal turnout for Libertarian candidates (Nevada, Colorado, Wisconsin, etc), but throwing a celebration over it is probably premature.

[davidpdx]

101. His correct name is

Grampa McGrumpy...please get it right next time!

[janx]

103. kick

I've been hoping for this! :party:

[janx]

104. kick again

[Swamp Rat]

107. kick

[OneDemsConscience]

108. SWEEEETTTT

The best possible result for us. Both Root and Barr are former Republicans--both appeal to the GOP base. We'll see if they have any success--but it's easily the most media-accessible Lib ticket in years.

With Root on the ticket, this might help the Dems in Nevada.