Sure, you may not like her, but it's hard to argue with 17 million votes.

[BigBearJohn]

More than 17 million Americans have voted for Hillary in the primary - the most in presidential primary history.

That's a whole helluva lot of "hillbots"... just sayin'

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2008/05/25/2008-05-25_hillary_why_i_continue_to_run.html?print=1&page=all

[NJSecularist]

1. Oh don't worry, the Obamites will argue the 17 million figure.

It's what they do. It's all they know. They have an axe to grind against Hillary, and no amount of facts will ever change their mind.

[havocmom]

6. Well, if she has lost Supers & campaign workers, stands to reason

there are a few voters takin a hike now too.

Wasn't there a poll or two recently showing she would LOSE California if that primary were now instead of then. But the fool wants to stay in? The more people see of her, the fewer followers she has.

[susankh4]

82. Stands to reason that....

some folks are easily intimiidated by the powers that be.

Some are not.

[quaker bill]

34. If only they were facts.

What's all this about "counting all the votes" and then leaving 4 caucus states out of the total????

Hillary has gotten quite alot of votes. However, Barack has gotten an equal or greater number in most normal manners of counting.

The question on the exam was never about who gets the most votes anyway. Hillary knew the questions in advance and simply failed to study.

[Writer]

44. "It's not 17 million! It's 16,824,596!"

:P

[PoliticalAmazon]

55. How many of those are still supporters? She's lost a good deal...

of the African-American vote in New York, and California has swung solidly behind Obama now.

I can't imagine too many Americans will want to support a candidate who used the threat of a bloody assassination as a campaign strategy.

[Brundle_Fly]

57. Obama is getting amazing crowds in FLA as well...

if he'd had the chance to campaign, or if IT HAD BEEN A STATE THAT DIDN'T BREAK THE RULES... he would have probably swung it.

[LostinVA]

104. Okay, C.G.A.

:eyes:

[Drunken Irishman]

90. haha, this coming from the guy who posts more anti-Obama bullshit than anyone.

Talking about an axe to grind, 90% of your posts here are attacking Obama. God you're such a fucking hypocrite. I don't even believe you're real anymore. No person can be this dense, so it's obvious you're just a faux-troll here to make Hillary Clinton supporters look bad.

I pity you, NJ, I really do.

[msallied]

2. And a lot of them voted months ago...

Take that however you want...

[AZ Criminal JD]

14. Who has won most of the most recent primaries? Is that close enought for you?

[msallied]

18. Who didn't predict she would win those months ago?

Indiana and WV were always in Hill's bag, and she barely won IN. She hasn't gained in support and has plunged further into debt while plummeting in the polls. Is that close enough for you?

[slinkerwink]

26. That doesn't play well. Obama's won 33 out of 51. Any serious sports fan would laugh at your analogy

about Hillary winning the second half in 13 states, when the first half had 38 states, with a majority of them going to Obama.

[FredScuttle]

46. Exactly

By that poster's logic, the New England Patriots should have gone 8-8 last year because they were outscored in the 2nd half of most of their games...after they were comfortably ahead by 20+ points.

[Ravy]

56. Equating Idaho and California victories on the same scale

would be the sports equivalent of winning a mid-season game to a game in the World Series.

[Bjorn Against]

63. That may be true, but Obama still is ahead by every credible measure...

And no counting a state in which Obama did not even compete but refusing to count caucus states is not a credible measure.

Sure Hillary won some big states, but she is still behind and she can not catch up. It may not be fair to compare Idaho to California, but it is just as unfair to pretend that winning a few big games somehow makes up for the fact that you are losing by every credible measure.

[Ravy]

65. I don't buy "every credible measure"

He is ahead in the only one that counts.

[Bjorn Against]

66. What credible measure is he behind in?

And please don't tell me about some measure that pretends he did not have a single supporter in Michigan and that caucus states shouldn't be counted. That is not a credible measure.

Tell just one credible measure that he is behind in.

[Ravy]

67. Popular vote (disputed), but that dispute will end if the DNC seats

Florida and Michigan in any form, and I believe that they will. For the few states that didn't record it, there needs to be some sort of "best guess" as to the number of people who voted for whom.

She leads by a wide margin in electoral votes of states won vs his. This is the playing field in November, so I would consider it credible. That lead cannot be taken away.

She leads in swing states. That lead cannot be taken away.

Like I said, this isn't what we go on *execpt* the superdelegates can use them if they choose.

The way I see it, there are three credible means of judging the "people's will".

1. Actually counting the number of people who voted for each candidate.
2. Using the rules that will be used in November that weighs the significance of states won.
3. The Democratic rules, but they allow for 1 and 2 to be considered by superdelegates to judge the stronger candidate.

[Bjorn Against]

72. It is not a credible measure to count Michigan and not give Obama even a single vote...

And I am sorry to inform you but there are no electoral votes in the primary, those only exist in the general and the general election has not happened yet. The primary election and the general are two completely separate elections and you can not use the results of one to predict the other. A win in the primary does not equal a win in the general, and a loss in a primary state does not mean the same candidate would lose that state in the general election.

There are only 201 undeclared super delegates remaining, she needs 246 of the remaining delegates to win. This means that in order to win she would have to get over 50% of the remaining pledged delegates and EVERY single super delegate that has not yet declared in order to win. Not going to happen.

[Ravy]

78. What a stupid, arrogant argument.

I started out by saying it was not the measure we use. You asked for other measures, then argue that those don't count because they aren't the measure we use. You just needed someone to bash, like 90% of the other fakes here. Seek some help and welcome to ignore.

[Bjorn Against]

79. You consider it bashing to offer facts?

Well I just told the truth, if you find that to be bashing then I don't think you should be telling others to seek help.

[Spazito]

31. LOL, you can't seriously be putting that forward as an argument??

"...most of the most recent...."

:rofl:

[anonymous171]

3. You're only a hillbot if you refuse to vote for the Democratic Nominee in November.

Same with the slurs for Obama supporters.

[JohnnyLib2]

23. Really? Is there a consensus on that?

I, for one, would like to be seen as a Democrat, no more or less.

[burythehatchet]

4. send her $$$$$$$$$ !!

[Brundle_Fly]

59. YES!!

send her $$$$$$$$$ !!

she has back debts!!

[shadowknows69]

5. Hey guess what. She still doesn't have the popular lead

No matter how much she wants to believe her bullshit numbers.

[slinkerwink]

8. yep. She wants to keep those two states in limbo.

[slinkerwink]

7. California has buyer's remorse. If we had a revote, it would go to Obama along with those votes.

[AZ Criminal JD]

17. Fine. Let's have a re-vote in all the states and see how Obama does.

California and every state that has voted.

[slinkerwink]

32. I believe that's called the convention floor vote. I'm betting Obama will pick away at Hill's

delegates.

[DogPoundPup]

9. And how many millions were Limbaugh fans?

Just askin'.

[nichomachus]

10. 62 million voters voted for Bush in 2004 -- so that makes him a good president?

[ProSense]

21. 62 million people voted for a soulless bastard, who can argue with them?

Similar campaign tactics, similar results.

[Carolina]

69. How true!

Great comeback and great post as always, ProSense!! :hi:

[BigBearJohn]

36. Ouch. You DO have a point there. DAMN IT TO HELL

[Johnny__Motown]

11. so you won't argue with everyone who voted for Shrub? I will

[gateley]

12. That's been part of the reason

why I'm constantly flip flopping on whether she should stay in the race or concede. There's no denying that she has millions of supporters -- millions of Americans who believe she's the best candidate. :shrug: I see both sides of the argument, and I'm not discounting her popularity in this race.

[iamthebandfanman]

13. democracys

dont work to well in mental institutions

[NaturalHigh]

15. Yeah, but according to some of the Obama folks here on DU...

they can get along just fine without Clinton voters. The arrogance of the Obama machine is staggering.

[DogPoundPup]

19. well were're not ready to cuddle with Coulter and Limbaugh

Scaiffe and Murdoch. You go ahead though.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. No, we absolutely need DEMOCRATS to support the DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

Barack Obama is going to be the Democratic Nominee, and absolutely he needs every good Democrat's support.

[NaturalHigh]

54. What does he plan to do to earn that support?

Or is it just a given that since he's (going to be) the nominee, he owns our vote?

[haymakeragain]

73. What do you want,

a big fat kiss on the ass? Well you ain't gonna get it. Vote McSame mensa.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SlicerDicer-]

109. I would rather move to Canada or something than

vote for Hilarity.. I cant stand her and never could. I never liked Bill Clinton either I thought he was a giant what was that Keith said? Turdblossom?

[BlooInBloo]

16. Yah - like you control them. NOT. You have no hostage. You have nothing.

[izquierdista]

20. And 51 million voted for Dubya

in 2004.

That's three times as much stupid, but arguing with it comes easy.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Good. Nice to know we have so many enthusiastic Democrats to support the Democratic Nominee.

It's not going to be her, but that's the way the primary process works. Someone wins and everyone else loses.

[Arugula Latte]

64. I don't get why supporters of all the other defeated candidates understood this concept,

but a good chunk of Hillary's supporters don't seem to grasp it.

[anonymous171]

24. And only 310 will not vote for Obama in the GE.

[book_worm]

25. Most Clinton supporters (opposed to some Hillbots on DU) are reasonable Democrats who will vote for

Obama in November.

[Radio_Lady]

27. Cogent and classy op-ed piece, I must say. Congratulations, Hillary.

Please remember, "I will vote a straight Democratic ticket in November, no matter what the final outcome of these primaries turns out to be."

[WeDidIt]

29. Nope, 16,227,514 have voted for her

Now I admit, that does not count Iowa, Maine, Washington, NEvada, or the Texas caucus because we have no popular vote totals for those sanctioned contests, but all she has right now is 16,227,514 votes.

NOTE: Unsanctioned beauty contests don't count.

[nemo137]

77. you know, I don't think that rounds to 17M

Wouldn't it have to be 16,500,000 round up to 17,000,000?

[AZ Criminal JD]

83. 17,650,671 for Clinton. It actually rounds to 18 million.

NOTE: Sorry about that.

[billyoc]

30. 2025

[nichomachus]

33. Is that the year Hillary will finally win?

[billyoc]

51. No, that's when she finally drops her last lawsuit against the Democratic Party.

:rofl:

[scarletwoman]

35. And how many were republicans who will never vote for a Dem in the GE?

If they are truly Dem voters then they will vote Dem in the General Election and that will be good thing. If they are not truly Dem voters then we haven't lost anything, anyway.

sw

[intaglio]

37. BBJ no one is arguing against

Hillary voting democrats - everyone is just wanting to stick to the rules

Now who has the majority on the R&BLC at present?

[LucyParsons]

38. 50% of people voted for Bush.

nt

[boppers]

39. Of those 17 million, how many will vote for Barack in the GE?

How many would have voted for Hillary in the GE, for that matter?

[AtomicKitten]

40. How many votes are Operation Chaos?

[Medusa]

74. A damn good percentage

that's how many. Popular vote leader my ass. That's a lie, just like 99.9% of everything else out of her mouth, Bill's mouth and the Hillbots.

[Individualist]

41. No, it isn't

Evidence of the dumbing down of America is all around us. See post 10 for an example (clarification: not the poster, but the subject of the post).

[Name removed]

42. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[apocalypsehow]

43. He won, she lost. The sooner you get over it and quit pretending to be "concerned" the better. n/t.

[electron_blue]

45. One less now. I voted for her, but now support Obama.

People shouldn't assume that votes cast in January and Feb would be cast the same way now.

[Pisces]

47. I bet more than half wish they could change their vote right about now. Especially NH

[ericgtr]

48. Yeah, unless you have more.. In the real world Hillary has lost

everyone other than a few hard liners understands this.

[H2O Man]

49. It's a lot of support.

Although Barack Obama has won the contest between them, Senator Clinton will remain an influential leader in our party. She will have some say in the democratic platform, too.

[MoonRiver]

50. Obots don't care.

They'd rather lose than admit the obvious. Go figure.

[Carolina]

70. interesting that you cite Marian Wright Edelman

in your signature line, but have you ever wondered why neither Marian nor her husband Peter (who quit the Clinton Administration in protest) have come out in support of your feckless leader?

Most likely, they know the Clintons for the narcissistic power junkies they really are.

[haymakeragain]

75. Only thing obvious is that Obama has it in the bag.

Sorry whiner, what do you want us to do?

[JerseygirlCT]

52. Well actually,

I don't find it all that hard.

[IDemo]

53. It's not uncommon for the football team with most offensive yards to lose the game

But of course, offensive yardage is not the metric that the rules state determines the winner.

Rules. I remember rules...

[Triana]

58. She's still losing - no matter what twisted, rule-breaking metrics she chooses to use. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. Oh, I don't know. Dubya got over 62 million votes, and it's easy to argue with them.

Just sayin'.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

62. I am proud to be in that number!!!

[Carolina]

68. and many have already admitted they have buyer's

remorse including some SDs.

Other former voters for HRC will show, via their GE votes, that they are true Democrats not lemming-like Hillbots.

[malletgirl02]

76. I'm one of those voters

I voted for Clinton in my state's primary in February, and I'm having major buyers remorse.

[L0oniX]

71. What's a mere 17,000,000 votes compared to all the Bush voters that I despise.

[smiley_glad_hands]

80. Its 17 million only if you make shit up. eom

[greguganus]

81. Wow, that's a lot of racists! n/t

[SoonerPride]

84. Why are you posting about Hillary Clinton? She is not our nominee and is yesterdays news.

Why this fascination with an also-ran?

Give it up already. It makes you look pathetic.

[Life Long Dem]

85. But i really haven't

been paying attention to the popular vote. I thought their wasn't one. And even if there was, Obama's leading in that area as well, so that makes Obama win with the mostest votes in primary history.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

86. About CA, don't forget the Hill received a good chunk of votes from early voting!

She "won" FL, MI, NY, NJ, CA when few people knew who Obama was. The more they get to know him, the better his numbers look. It's starting in CA. In NY, he's far ahead, and he's beating McCain in PA.

[OzarkDem]

88. Obama doesn't do well with hispanic voters

Good luck in California.

[OzarkDem]

87. Too late, they've already lost most of them

No problem. Maybe they'll find more in the Republican party :rofl:

Expect Obama to switch parties after the Convention...

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

89. You're incredibly ignorant, aren't you? You can't lump Latinos into one giant category!

[papapi]

91. Delegates choose the nominee. Not the popular vote.

Just sayin'.

[TBF]

92. In Texas the primaries are open & cross-overs occurred. I imagine

Republican shenanigans could account for some of the votes. Here in Texas I've also heard alot of people say they like both candidates, whether they voted for one or the other.

I'm an Obama supporter but I do agree with the OP premise. It is alot of votes, and not something to be ignored. I do think Obama is aware of that as well.

[Swamp Rat]

93. Which is why we need each other! >>>>>>>>>>>>> McCain is the enemy!!

[rocktivity]

94. I can argue plenty

Not all the states had open primaries.

Some of the states had caucuses as well primaries.

Some states had caucuses only.

Four of the states that had caucuses only did not compute their vote totals.

Some of the votes are from U.S. territories that will not be voting in the general election.

An accurate popular vote total is therefore impossible to calculate.


If all fifty states held open primaries and divided their delegates the exact same way, the popular vote argument might be valid. But they don't, so it isn't.

:headbang:
rocknation

[AZ Criminal JD]

96. If it is not a valid argument then tell us why Obama used it

When he was ahead in the popular vote he always pointed that out in speeches and TV appearances.

[rocktivity]

97. If he did, he was wrong, too.

Unless he was trying to point out that Hillary's numbers were wrong.

:shrug:
rocknation

[stillcool]

100. He still is...

according to the "Democratic" Party rules...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[AZ Criminal JD]

105. I see why you put Democratic in quotes.

An Obama party only want to have the votes of 48 states counted. To hell with the 2.3 million in FL and MI.

[stillcool]

108. Actually..."Democrats"...

in 48 states voted. Wouldn't it have been something if the 2 rogue states out of 50 had stayed within the rules of the "Democratic" National Party? You must get a kick out of Florida fucking with the Democratic Party.

[rucky]

95. You are correct.

One of the many reasons it's easier to be nice to them, pretty much everywhere else but here.

[jillan]

98. That's a whole lot of people that Obama is going to have to win over.

Just sayin'

[Thrill]

99. It helps to have a popular President as your husband

Those are essentially votes for him

[maryallen]

101. Not hard: Voting machines.

[HooptieWagon]

102. Hard to argue with a 300 delegate lead, with only 350 delegates left

Pesky things, rules are. The majority of hillary supporters will vote for the Dem candidate in Nov. Yes, a few die-hard racists won't, and the Operation Chaos hillary voters won't, and the petulant dead-ender shrillbots won't. Fine, Obama won't be needing them.

[JoFerret]

103. They don't exist

They are dead. They don't matter. They live in Appalachia. they do not have the benefit of an Ivy league education. we smart people are superior and we voted for Bush last time around. OK - so that was a mistake. But these people cannot be trusted.

[Teaser]

106. That's a whole helluva lot of "hillbots"... just sayin'

Apparently there are more "Obamabots", though.

At least, if you count them.

[gort]

107. she needs more than 60 million votes

and win the electoral college to be potus

Something she can't do, but she's doing a helluva job of destroying Obama's chances.