Rules and Bylaws committee

[my3boyz]

I caught the end of an interview with Steve Grossman on CNN. Apparently he is member of the rules and bylaws committee. Anyway, from the small bit that I heard it seems like he is a Hillary supporter. He mentioned that how long it was did not concern him. He said that FDR did not get the nom until the 4th ballot at the convention.

Who are the undeclared on this committee? Which way do you think they are leaning? Do they have to all agree in order to keep it from going to the credentials committee or will a majority do?

[slinkerwink]

1. I'm going to be there at the Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting

[grantcart]

62. in what capacity?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

68. Go Hillary!

[TheDoorbellRang]

76. OT. I like your sig line.

And I would say she's definitely Chase

[my3boyz]

2. I just checked and indeed he is a Hillary supporter!

He was former DNC assigned by Clinton. Then there are articles online talking about how he has known them for 20 years and is heavily involved in her fundraising. So this is probably one person on the committee who will not try to be fair. He probably wants the process to go to the convention which is why he mentioned FDR.

[meow mix]

3. why do hillary supporters insist on living in the past

wtf?
its like a wierd psychosis they all have. (past-osia?)
they also say giving mccain a free ride is a good thing.

im developing a deep-seated hatred for hillary supporters. and thier candidate.

[kentuck]

4. At present, 13 for Hillary, 8 for Obama, and 7 undecided...

So, some have suggested the Committee may favor Hillary in its decisions?

[hokies4ever]

6. Technically, but

I think that Donna Brazille is listed as 'undecided', but it's clear that she will support Obama. Perhaps it's better to call them 'undeclared' instead of 'undecided'. One good thing is that some of the Hillary supers overall seem to be cooling to her notion that FL delegates represent the next epic civil right struggle, following in the long line of slavery, black suffrage, women's suffrage, the Civil Rights movement, and now seating the FL delegation. :rofl:

[mac2]

9. Donna is a Neo Con

[hokies4ever]

12. if Donna is a neocon

then Hillary is the Republican overlord. :rofl:

[Inuca]

58. WHAT???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocon

[Secret_Society]

69. I'm really tired...

of Democrats calling other Democrats republicans. I've seen it from both sides (but much more by one). The thing about Donna is that I do not like that she appears on CNN as a Democratic analyst but is so clearly an Obama supporter. I think viewers she be informed of pundits that are actively supporting a candidate whether they declare or not.

[Renaissance Man]

42. Civil Rights, Black Suffrage and Slavery

That is the biggest slap in the face to every AA voter for her to compare her piss-fest on Michigan and Florida to those things. She and Bill had better not EVER cross the threshold of a Black Church again.

[mac2]

55. You might be out numbered if they get Faith Based dollars

from Hillary. Obama already has plans to make black churches richer. Don't you worry about your religious freedom period?

[hokies4ever]

15. Keep in mind some of those 13

may not be completely loyal to Hillary. Some of the supers kind of defaulted toward Hillary, whereas Obama had to pretty much earn the support of his supers.

[still_one]

5. Clinton is on a suicide mission which will destroy the party and the country

the Clintons have more than adequately demonstrated their destructive behavior, from Bill Clinton's presidency, to Hillary's campaign

Incidently, Hillary is no FDR

[mac2]

8. Neither is Obama

[still_one]

13. Obama may not be an FDR, but he has more class in his little finger

the Senator Clinton has in her whole being

The way Senator Clinton has run her campaign more than adequately demonstrates her judgement

[mac2]

56. Ya...after they get rich off the oil deals and war.

[mac2]

7. They are letting Dean pick the MI and FL delegates to be seated at the

convention. He's anti-Hillary. So which is it?

[my3boyz]

10. Who said Dean is picking the delegates? How do you know he is anti-Hillary?

[mac2]

16. Seems he is up to something.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-barrett/could-the-republicans-cou_b_94158.html

http://www.alternet.org/democracy/80993/

Once again they manipulate the election (this time the primary) to lose. Fire Dean.

[dansolo]

19. That is the credentials committee

Dean selects a large block of members of the credentials committee, which takes over deliberations on these matters prior to the convention.

[mac2]

23. No they said delegates from MI and FL

It was posted previously. I'll have to find it.

[MaineDem]

11. This is ridiculous

Dean plays no such part in this.

[hokies4ever]

14. mac2 is just 'pulling a Lanny' for Hillary

I claim to be the first to coin the term 'pulling a Lanny' :rofl:

[mac2]

17. Read post #16

It's more than pro-Hillary or Obama don't you think? It's power manipulation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-barrett/could-the-republicans-cou_b_94158.html

http://www.alternet.org/democracy/80993/

Once again they manipulate the election (this time the primary) to lose.

[hokies4ever]

31. FL and MI won't decide the nomination

Hillary is just too far behind.

[mac2]

37. Not now but they had a lot of delegates whose votes have

been marginized. They are both huge liberal states.

[slinkerwink]

39. LOL. Florida is not a liberal state by any measure.

[mac2]

63. Florida it is said, is a Democratic state run by Republicans.

Remember the voter rolls were tampered with? Computers manipulated, and re-count and first count manipulated? They have to steal elections since they can't win them.

[woolldog]

78. Democrats have won FL in only 3 out of the last 15 Presidential Elections.

It is not a liberal state.

[hokies4ever]

41. FL and MI will be seated

Dean just wants to embarrass the legislators for those two states. By the time the Convention comes around, the Dem Party plans on having a nominee. Then they will roll out the red carpet for FL and MI and treat those two states like royalty. No rush to seat the delegates though. Every day that goes by is another day that FL and MI legislators get phone bombed and e-mailed nonstop by their constituents with complaints. Dean knows this, so he's just holding their feet to the fire for a little bit longer so they remember this for the 2012 election.

[Iceburg]

52. Dean and the DNC have made fools of themselves -- they were dealt a problem

by the the FL state legislator. They provided no solution and in fact compounded the problem to the detriment of the party and the eventual nominee be it Obama or Hillary. What little hope we do have in winning Florida rest solely with Hillary because she and she alone fought valiantly on behalf of the delegates, and voters to have the votes counted.

[hokies4ever]

53. Dean put the Party before the 2008 election

If they hadn't made an example of MI and FL, what would have happened during the 2012 election? FL would have moved ahead of Iowa most likely. FL is ego-tripping because they think that they are the most important state in the Union. A hearing is scheduled for 5/31. Until that decision is rendered, it's not true that they problem will continue.

[TheDoorbellRang]

77. Well, you certainly have all your talking points down

Too bad the rest of us have kept ourselves informed about the fiasco that is the FL democratic party. You might want to check out madfloridian's journal to get some facts.

Please xplain the noble, altruistic reasons Hillary is "fighting valiantly" for the delegates in FL and MI NOW, when back in January she is on record saying that those votes wouldn't count?

[OzarkDem]

54. Dean has been a colossal disappointment

I'll regret seeing him leave as head of DNC, but he's given us no other choice.

[mac2]

64. Is he leaving? For what another political appointment?

He leaves after making a huge mess with party members at each others throats. Good job Howard!!

[otohara]

79. "Us" As in The Clinton's????

you're funny and fos!

[dansolo]

18. Why do Clinton supporters keep referencing previous primaries?

Today the nominee is primarily selected through pledged delegates that are awarded from primaries and caucuses in all 50 states. There is no comparison to previous primaries where the nominee is selected in smoke-filled rooms by party bigwigs. Apparently the Clinton supporters wish that we went back to the old way of doing things. So much for her "count every vote" argument. BTW, did Steve Grossman vote to take away the FL and MI delegates in the first place?

[mac2]

20. Don't blame Hillary but look at Dean, etc.

There is something very bad going on at the party level. It is not democracy. See #16 post.

[my3boyz]

21. I know the "rules" say that the committee can punish them by 50% loss

in delegates. However, what do the "rules" say about the popular votes? Do they count in an election that was not deemed legitimate by the DNC?

[mac2]

22. The DNC and Howard Dean smell of a coup.

[MaineDem]

24. Rules say nothing about popular vote

There is no way to count that. Regardless of what anyone says.

[my3boyz]

25. So if the delegates are seated in any way Clinton will claim she won pop vote?

[mac2]

26. The popular vote means little when you are losing eh?

[AllentownJake]

30. Depending on which calculation you decide to use

The rules say nothing about a popular vote. Seeing there is no way to agree to how it should be tabulated i.e. a rule than there is no way to guage which metric is fair.

[my3boyz]

34. If the media knows this why do they keep playing around with the Hillary won the pop vote spiel?

[mac2]

35. Apparently the "rules" don't mean much to anyone but those

who want to manipulate them to their favor.

[AllentownJake]

38. Sorry

Your right...lets have an election with no rules and lets see how that goes. A matter fact I got an idea lets just have two mobs meet on the mall and whoever's mob is left standing can be President.

[AllentownJake]

27. There is no such thing as the popular vote

There is nothing in the DNC nominating rules concerning the cumalitive votes recieved in all states and caucuses.

There are about 20 different popular vote figures out there for this Primary Season.

[my3boyz]

28. I have a feeling that Hillary is going to use that to take it to the convention. nt

[AllentownJake]

33. She has every right to

However she will be shit out of luck fundraising and building an organization in the swing states when she has little chance to be the nominee.

[my3boyz]

36. So the supers would top Obama off and he would go on as the

presumptive nominee knowing that in August she was going to fight on the floor of the convention? Would they even call Obama the presumptive nominee or would we continue on as-is?

[AllentownJake]

40. At that point

Once he has enough delegates and she continues to act like an ass clown he declares himself winner and starts attacking McCain.

[mac2]

29. Especially when Obama is your candidate.

If it is that close let the delegates (all seated) decide at the convention. The Super Delegates can go you know where.

[my3boyz]

32. It is not close. Obama is winning. nt

[Gore1FL]

65. They don;t count for anything at all except for delegate selection.

[AllentownJake]

43. There will be a compromise

It's actually already probably been worked out.

Everyone on that committee with the exception of a few partisans are loyal DNC members and the fallout for not having some sort of punishment for moving the primary would be bad for the Party in the future.

Plus the members would be overturning the ruling they themselves made in August. You need to have a very good justification to go 180 on something other than I support Candidate X.

[RooferDem]

44. Pretty ridiculous thread.

The rules and bylaws committee is going to do what is in the rules. 50% delgates in Florida will be seated. If they do more, if it looks like they try to overrule the will of the voters who elected the current PDs, and it will be seen as a fix. You think we're divided now? That would cripple us.

Popular vote? Doesn't mean squat. It is a convenient way of prolonging the conversation for those candidates who are rapidly running out of talking points.

This will all be over in 2 weeks. Then we get to rebuild bridges.

[my3boyz]

45. I want to know why they broke the rules and decided to totally strip them in the first place?

Why didn't they follow the rules and strip them 50%. Now they made a mess. Hillary supporters will be pissed because they think she should get 100%. Obama supporters are probably pissed because they are changing the rules at the end of the game.

[MaineDem]

46. Minimum penalty was 50%

FL and MI were given additional penalties, which are totally within the rules.

Actually, this now allows the RBC to cut that penalty back to 50%.

[my3boyz]

47. One more thing...is there anything in the rules about the Super Delegates from those states? Is it

possible to seat a portion of the elected delegates but none of the super delegates?

[AllentownJake]

50. As much as I would love

for Florida and Michiagan's supers to be banned from the convention. The rules committee are political animals and won't punish their own.

[AllentownJake]

48. Terry Mac

Used it as a threat in 2004 against Michigan and it worked. Florida and Michigan called the DNC's bluff this time.

[RooferDem]

49. The reasoning behind that has been discussed here in detail.

MadFloridian might have something on it in his journal, though I might be mistaken.

Upshot is that the rules call for 50% reduction in delegates, but the committee has the right to penalize the state party further if they feel its warranted. And do you know who felt it was warranted, and voted to throw out all the delegates? Harold Ickles.

[AllentownJake]

51. The fact he hasn't recused himself

from the committee pisses me off. When your a prominent member of one of the candidate's teams you should not be allowed to be on a Rules Committee.

[mac2]

72. The mess is with the Republicans controlling the Democratic

primary. The Democratic party "rulers" then punished the voters of MI and FL.

[mac2]

73. I've been asking that myself and came across this...

It's more than pro-Hillary or Obama don't you think? It's power manipulation.

http://www.now.org/press/04-08/04-29.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-barrett/could-the-r...

http://www.alternet.org/democracy/80993 /

Once again they manipulate the election (this time the primary) to lose.

[Vinca]

57. The convention is rather late in the summer and that's a problem.

It's going to leave just a couple of months to campaign against McBush if the candidate isn't decided until then. Democrats: grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory . . . again.

[mac2]

66. Bull.

The convention is in late summer because the GE is in November. Generally that is enough time to get our candidates and our agenda known.

Who knew Democrats were going to run for President a year or more before the convention? It is getting longer and longer. More expensive and distracting. The candidates are members of the Congress and have work to do.

This time Dean wants the President and VP...agenda decided by the candidate and Super Delegates? Who asked him?

Forget the delegates and their votes and agenda. It is steal of our party voice not trying to defeat McCain if we go to the convention with the delegates (who were elected by the people in their districts to represent them).

[MaineDem]

74. Actually, it is late this year

The Olympics pushed it back two weeks.

I've completely lost track of what you're trying to say, though. It is true that a late convention - and this is one - gives us less time to compete against their candidate (even though their convention is even later).

[mac2]

81. You are worried about two weeks?

Oh ya...just pick Obama the winner and don't go to the convention because it is too late?

[MaineDem]

84. I'm not worried I was just responding regarding the dates

Jeez.

[Inuca]

59. Does anybody know

if the deliberations are public and may be carried on CSPAN? I assumed they are closed, but I think, not sure, I heard some mention (CNN? I was not really paying attention) that they are not.

[MaineDem]

60. Totally open and carried on CSPAN in the past

And that was when they were watched by no one. This one will be popular so I'm sure all the regular news sources will be there.

[Inuca]

61. Thanks!

It will surely be interesting.

[mac2]

70. But this time everything will be decided by Super Delegates

and the party leaders before the DNC convention in Denver without the delegates.

Like in 2004...the war and globalism (NAFTA) was off the table. Hidden and fought over in the committees not the whole action of the delegates.

[MaineDem]

75. What are you replying to?

The question was about the RBC meeting being open to the public. The answer to that is yes.

[mac2]

80. You about the DNC convention on CSPAN.

[MaineDem]

83. The discussion was about the Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting this Saturday

:shrug:

[lojasmo]

67. Whatever the lean....

I'll accept the ruling. The RBC is just that. A group which sits to interpret the rules and apply them.

[mac2]

71. Boot click.

[lojasmo]

82. What, now?

Please explain.