A week from tomorrow, it will all be over.

[cali]

Every state and territory will have weighed. No more primaries. And Obama will be the presumptive nominee either by June 4, or shortly thereafter. Then we'll find out how vengeful/crazy/petty/meglomaniacal or gracious/cooperative/reasonable
Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton is.

We'll also find out how badly party insiders and heavyweights want to win in November.

[Renaissance Man]

1. Well...

Then we'll find out how vengeful/crazy/petty/meglomaniacal or gracious/cooperative/reasonable
Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton is.

No, we already know how vengeful, crazy, petty, and megalomaniacal that she is. Gracious, cooperative and reasonable went out of the door a long time ago.

[Kierkegaard]

4. I think I agree with the OP here.

Despite her abominable behavior thus far, I don't believe we've seen the bottom of the barrel from Clinton yet.

[Renaissance Man]

8. I agree.

Both she and Bill Clinton are bottom-dwelling gutter politicians soaked with hubris.

[Kierkegaard]

16. Sad, isn't it? To have squandered all they've worked for?

I hope they aren't counting on the public having a short memory about their recent behavior -- they've irreparably damaged both their reputations.

[still_one]

2. Only if the Super Delegates end this madness will it end /nt

[SoFlaJet]

3. then it'll be on to a court battle and you know it Cali

then we'll have to suffer through Lanny and Terry and Debbie Delusional Schultz every night on TV talking about how the case needs to be resolved and until then we do NOT have a nominee-and the media will enable them.

[cali]

6. how do you conclude that there will be a court battle?

What precedent is there? It's my understanding that precedent supports the DNC.

And I still don't think she'll take it to the convention.

[SoFlaJet]

10. remember who we're talking about here cali

these are the same people who are ready to change the rules of the process whichever way they have to to reach their ultimate goal. When has logic ever entered into their thinking the past 6 months? I guarantee you they will go to court on this and bring 310 crazy people with pots and pans and boxing gloves and bowling pins to make as much noise as they can, by request of course. I've GOTTEN some of the e-mails by the democrats down here telling me where and when to protest.

[cali]

13. There simply isn't precedent for her to take this to court.

Not that I'm aware of.

[SoFlaJet]

17. From americanstranger Fri May-23-08 05:15 PM

4. An imaginary hearing....


Judge: Why is the plaintiff filing this suit?

Plaintiff: Because the DNC told us if we moved our primary, the results wouldn't count and our delegates would not be seated.

Judge: So what happened then?

Plaintiff: We moved our primary, and the results didn't count and the delegates have not been seated.

Judge: Case dismissed. Next....

[POAS]

36. Followed by

"We will appeal to the Supreme Court"

[SoFlaJet]

38. you laugh now....

but just watch...they will declare the caucuses an illegal way to measure votes and cite Bush v Gore as it disenfranchises voters-watch

[POAS]

39. I wasn't laughing!

Serious as a heart attack!

[SoFlaJet]

40. Anyone else get the feeling the Clinton camp got some ideas last night?

from The Nation:

Obama v.Recount, Democracy v. Thugocracy
posted by Katrina vanden Heuvel on 05/25/2008 @ 11:27pm


This Memorial Day Sunday, Barack Obama did what he described as "pinch-hitting" for one of his personal heroes, Senator Edward Kennedy. From many accounts, Obama's commencement address at Wesleyan College was rousing and inspiring. The Nation's Katha Pollitt was there and wrote on a listserv, "he was really excellent. ... the college opened graduation to outsiders -- LOTS of people, black and white, came from the area to hear him. My daughter, a junior, said she found it inspiring. she not very political, so that is a high compliment." What an antidote to Sunday night's HBO special, "Recount" --with scenes bringing back memories of Florida's slithery Secretary of State Katherine Harris --and other GOP thugs--stealing away our democracy. Remember Justice Antonin Scalia's three word sneer, "Get Over It." Those were words the Justice invoked in defending the stealing of the 2000 election. So, this May 25th, 2008, we had two Americas at work: One on our tv screens--a docudrama (more drama than docu) about the selection of a President; the other, a real-life drama with Senator Barack Obama standing in one for one of America's greatest Senators, speaking to students and calling them, and all of us, to our better angels, with determined idealism and grounded pragmatism. You choose. Thugocracy or Democracy.

[POAS]

42. You left out the part

in calling it "Thugocracy or Democracy" where the situation gets even more deja vu with Hillary's camp organizing "spontaneous" outpourings of civic outrage like those we saw by Republican congressional staffers pounding on doors to the counting rooms in Florida!

It's all too familiar to me!

[SoFlaJet]

44. that's why I copied it from marmar's thread in the editorials and stories section

for those 3 words specifically POAS. I LIVED through it down here in PB County in 2000. I saw and heard of things going on that the rest of the country had no idea about; roadblocks in black neighborhoods, in fact the REASON I'M HERE is because MY NAME was taken off the rolls and I was not allowed to vote!

[POAS]

45. Missed that reference I guess

This is win at all cost cynical politics. I thought Democrats were above it (finally) but I see I have been naive again!

[SoFlaJet]

46. at this point POAS

I'm not putting ANYTHING past these scumbags that the Clinton campaign has become-NOTHING...no-thing if you get my (very dark) meaning....

[POAS]

47. point taken!

edited to add:

Right down there on the dark side with Darth Cheney, maybe even darker!

[SoFlaJet]

48. we all heard where her own mind has gone to on Friday

the deepest depths of horrible...bordering on insanity

[POAS]

49. Bordering? n/t

[Double T]

5. HOLD YOUR HORSES!!! BO has done a LOUSY job of acquiring popular votes.........

in recent PRIMARY ELECTIONS. If the Democrats want to WIN this Presidential Election, HRC is the ONLY choice. BO has proved time and again HE is unelectable. The GE does NOT operate like a manipulated caucus; each voter casts a vote WITHOUT outside peer pressure and influence by cheer leading rallies. HRC will be our candidate if WE care about victory and winning.

[Renaissance Man]

7. How?

He's proven that he is unelectable by out-organizing, out-caucusing, out-fundraising, winning more states, winning the popular vote, playing by the rules, winning more superdelegates, and winning more pledged delegates than Hillary Clinton?

Explain to me how she is more "electable" than he is if she can't even seal the nomination (or as she put it, have the nomination wrapped up by Super Tuesday).

[Double T]

18. Millions of disenfranchised Democratic voters in FL and MI would agree with me........

which will be MORE THAN enough to make BO irrelevant.

[Renaissance Man]

22. Get over yourself.

Millions of "disenfranchised" voters in Florida and Michigan don't supercede the will of millions of Americans who played by the rules and didn't have their state legislators spit on the DNC and decide to move up their primaries/caucuses.

Also, I find it funny how those who are claiming this "disenfranchisement" meme speak nothing of the thousands upon thousands of voters that did not vote (and were told that it wouldn't count because Michigan and Florida were stripped of their delegates), or voters who are listed as uncommitted (you know, in the Michigan primary where Sen. Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot).

Once again, prove to me how Hillary is more electable using those metrics that I provided you (you know, like organizing, fundraising, caucusing, receiving more pledged delegates and super delegates), then I'll cede the point.

You can't. Shut up.

[Double T]

31. ALL the organizing, ALL the money from fund-raising, ALL the manipulated.......

caucuses won't even get BO elected; recent primary elections have clearly shown this to be true. Until FL and MI are fairly included, there can be no decision on pledged delegates. SDs should NOT even exist in a Democratic democracy.

[Renaissance Man]

35. Once again.

You have provided nothing even minimally reasonable to counter my claims. Call Clinton headquarters. Those talking points aren't working.

[Gore1FL]

51. I used this analogy before

You are at a baseball game between the St.Louis Cardinals and the Chicago Cubs.

The First inning, the Cardinals Score 10 runs.
The second through ninth innings the Cardinals score 1 run an inning Cubs score 2 runs an inning.

Despite ending the game with the Cardinals ahead 18-16, your logic would be to lobby the official scorer to give the game to the cubs because they finished stronger.

[skipos]

25. This MI voters says DONT YOU & HILLARY TRY TO TRICK ME!

Hillary said our vote our vote wouldn't count for anything. We had our faux vote and many people stayed home because of what Hillary andd others told us. Now you want to tell us we have been tricked, that our votes are going to go towards delegates despite what Hillary and the DNC said?

DISGUSTING.

[Double T]

37. MI should have a re-vote, NO ONE has tried to trick YOU.

Just because BO didn't bother to place himself on the MI ballot, don't blame ANYONE but BO. I STRONGLY believe MI would vote for HRC in a HUGE LANDSLIDE WIN!!!

[POAS]

41. Stop trying to turn this into a noble cause...

It is simply, and tellingly, cynical political maneuvering for partisan advantage.

It is win at all cost Rovian tactics or, worse yet, an even more cynical way to repay herself and Bill for the huge loans she gave her campaign by sucking more cash out of her supporters.

[SOS]

53. Re: "disenfranchise"

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

disenfranchise
verb
deprive (someone) of the right to vote

Florida voters were not deprived of the right to vote.
They voted and their votes were counted.

How the elected delegates will be seated is up to the rules committee this Saturday.

[SoFlaJet]

54. kind of reminds one

of the idiot GOP talking point from last week when they kept spraying the word appeasement all over the airwaves without even knowing it's meaning or historical context. Every day these people show us a little bit more of who and WHAT they truly are and it ain't pretty to see is it fellow democrats?

[FlaGranny]

57. Leave ME out of it.

I am a disenfranchised Florida voter. I don't agree with you at all.

[MannyGoldstein]

19. Rules Are For Losers

You know, the little people - the same people that you don't need to pay for services.

[Renaissance Man]

24. Right.

To the tune of $21 million.

:rofl:

[Window]

9. ..

:rofl:

[Double T]

14. Insane laughter?

[Double T]

15. Insane laughter?

[POAS]

43. Doubled

:rofl: :rofl:

[rurallib]

11. Wow you are right! Thanks for showing me the light

I have been so distracted by Obama's eloquence and compassion.

[cali]

12. Hillary is done. The popular vote for the primaries is impossible

tabulate. Hilly is no more electable in a GE than Obama. Obama has won as many individual votes as precious hilly. she's behaved atrociously. She lost. She's a poor fighter, a liar and a bad candidate.

[SoFlaJet]

21. cali did you get to see Terry McAwful from yesterday?

I'll bet you a hard boiled egg you will shut it off before it's done

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=137794&mesg_id=137794

[H2O Man]

20. Yep.

Kind of an exciting time.

I am still confident that Clinton will either step aside between 6-3 and 6-5, or the party will put the nomination well out of reach, and close the show on 6-6.

[SoFlaJet]

26. D-Day is June 6th

it would seem to be an appropriate day to me...his grampa stormed the Normandy Beach and my dad jumped into St. Mere Eglise on that day-Obama jumps into the GE ****OFFICIALLY**** on D-Day

[Blue_Roses]

29. one can only hope...

it's taking it's toll...

[Heather MC]

23. I think it's clear how,

"vengeful/crazy/petty/meglomaniacal or gracious/cooperative/reasonable
Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton is."

What will be interesting to see is if a leopard can change it's spots

[Diamonique]

27. I think she's gonna take her fight to the convention.

Even after the SD's go to Obama and he becomes the presumptive nominee, she'll still fight on.

Obama can't become THE nominee until the official votes are cast at the convention. Until then, she can try to get SD's to change their minds and vote for her at the convention.

I don't think she stands a chance, but I do believe she'll try,

[texas_indy]

28. HRC is going to the convention fighting to be the nominee, regardless of anything else.

Obama could win:
all the remaining states by 100%
all the remaining SDs by 100%
all the POLLs everywhere by 100%

AND

HRC will still be going to the convention to fight for HER nominee spot.

That is her spot and not Obama's and nothing will keep her from it!. SHe KNOWS it is hers and all she has to do is convince all the foolish, deluded, crazy Obama supporters of HER REALITY and then they will all switch their support to the QUEEN. No one will be allowed to take what is rightfully hers.

She will fight using every trick in she and Bill can cook up to get what is HERS! This is her best chance to get it and she is not going to just walk away from it because we are too stupid to recognize that this is "HILLARY'S TURN".

She'll be there, regardless of what happens between now and the convention. And she'll have plenty of supporters along with her all the way who will be willing to do what ever it takes to strip the nominee spot from Obama.

[SoFlaJet]

34. sorry but I have to agree with Texas here

she has shown no evidence or grace this whole year...that first part of what she said in that interview she gave before uttering the RFK assassination reference was most telling..."do you believe in party unity?" "No I don't"

[marions ghost]

30. I think so...

Some among us will defect to McCain...and the rest of us will get behind the presumptive nominee.

But the scars from this battle will take a long time healing.

Never thought we'd see Tonya Harding tactics within the Democratic party. x(

[keep_it_real]

32. But what we do today Will mater a 100 years from now

It may not seem like it but it will matter, what we do today, 100 years from now.

[Clear Blue Sky]

33. What do they say in Vegas?

There must be a betting line of when she will drop out. I'd like to see what the smart money says.

[slinkerwink]

50. It's not going to be over. She'll say the real vote comes on the convention floor.

[SoFlaJet]

52. I agree

she's like (LIKE, OK?-not saying she IS) a junkie now running on fumes and stolen silver rings and store reciepts-she doesn't know when to stop-or how...intervention didn't work and neither did rehab she has to BE stopped by the cops busting her...

[NightOwwl]

55. I agree with those who say she will take it to court.

She, her husband and their fatcat friends are about to lose their positions of power in the Democratic party. They will do anything to prevent this from happening.

Think it's ugly now? I think the worst is yet to come.

[Lucky 13]

56. I think we already know just how vengeful, crazy, petty, and meglomaniacal she is.

Every time I think she can't go any lower she goes lower. What I've realized is that she has no "bottom". There is no depths to which she WON'T sink.

So no, I DON'T expect that in a week this will be over. Oh Barack will hit the magic delegate number, supers will announce for him, and there will even be some defectors from Hillary's camp to Obama's... but this isn't over.

Conceding requires at least some measure of dignity and she has NONE. She WILL take this to the convention.

[kid a]

58. I agree - hallelujah...