An Interesting Response From A Clinton Supporter From The Rules Committee

[Hope And Change]

From the Obama blog:

I wrote to the Rules Committee folks and got a thoughtful response FROM A CLINTON supporter:

“I do not intend to act arbitrarily. I intend to insure there is a FL and a MI delegation to the convention. I believe a 100% reduction is excessive.

However, seating them fully is ignoring the rules, and will lead to chaos in 2012.

The MI Democratic Party had an approved Plan for a permissible date, which was a Party run Primary, a system they had been using for years. They choose not to execute the plan.

The FL Democratic Party never submitted a plan that wasn't in violation of the Rules, and was offered $800,000 by the DNC to run a Party run Caucus system on an approved date.

I do not believe a 50% reduction would be arbitrary, or excessive. There was a violation of the Rules, and the State Parties were aware of the consequences and told not to proceed with the elections at the time they were conducted

"RULE 20 Challenges:

C. 1. a. Violation of timing: In the event the Delegate Selection Plan of a state party provides or permits a meeting, caucus, convention or primary to be held prior to or after the dates for the state as provided in Rule 11 of these rules, or in the event a state holds a meeting, caucus, convention or primary prior to or after such dates, the number of pledged delegates elected in each category allocated to the state pursuant to the Call for the National Convention shall be reduced by fifty percent, and the number of alternates shall also be reduced by fifty percent. In addition, none of the members of the DNC and no other unpledged delegate allocated pursuant to Rule 8.A. from that state shall be permitted to vote. In determining the actual number of delegates or alternates by which the state’s delegation is to be reduced, any fraction below .5 shall be rounded down to the nearest whole number, and any fraction of .5 or greater shall be rounded up to the next nearest whole number. "

Jon Ausman, the FL voter challenging the RBC ruling and seeking re-instatement of the FL Delegation, is only asking for 50% of the delegation. That's seems appropriate.

If you have a different interpretation, please advise.

Thank you for your letter.

Garry S. Shay
Member, DNC (CA)”

[jefferson_dem]

1. "However, seating them fully is ignoring the rules, and will lead to chaos in 2012."

Absolutely. I'm happy to see a Hillary supporter thinking beyond her self-interested ambition.

50% is reasonable.

[Kierkegaard]

5. I don't know if 50% is reasonable, but it was an agreed upon minimum penalty.

You're right, though. It is a breath of fresh air to see a Clinton supporter that isn't being filtered by self-interest.

[Ravy]

11. Florida was a week early, and after the annointed four.

No one campaigned here, so the state lost millions in revenue. The state is Republican controlled, and was a swing state.

I guess if that isn't a case for the minimum penalty, I don't know why they would even have one.

I question the DNC judgement in going after the death penalty for us to begin with, and it will hurt here for a long time. We are particularly sensitive to having our votes counted. The DNC should never have taken such a hard line.

[Kierkegaard]

12. Sounds logical to me...

I wasn't questioning anyone's case, merely inferring that I am in no position to judge what's "fair."

[POAS]

8. I agree that 50% is

reasonable for Florida but what about Michigan (I know it's somewhat off topic here).

For Obama 50% of nothing is still nothing.

[Lerkfish]

2. so, help me out here: does this mean they split the delegates between them?

or that ONLY clinton receives 50% but Obama receives nothing?

or that the TOTAL number of delegates is halved and then split between them?


its a bit confusing.

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. I think in Florida that would mean they each get half the delegates they won in the primary

Possibly by seating all of them but giving each only one half a vote each - which is how it works with the Democrats Abroad delegates I believe. I'm not sure about Micigan.

[dansolo]

7. I take it to mean that each delegate gets half a vote

I suspect the delegation for Florida will be seated as-is, and Obama will get the Uncommitted MI delegates. But for the matter of selecting the nominee, each delegate will only get 1/2 vote.

[Gore1FL]

14. MI is going to be odd no matter what

However: Even if Hillary got the whole slate of MI delegates at full strength it wouldn't make a difference.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6132967

[jaysunb]

3. If anybody knows and respects the rules, it's Gary.

A good all around progressive guy that can be counted on to do the right thing. ( never understood the Hillary thing, but to each his own )

[Tippy]

4. Seat them ....Disenfranchise millions of voters in States that played by the rules

[blogslut]

9. A reasoned response

Cool. :)

[Swamp Rat]

10. I am glad they are trying to resolve this issue... we need to seat FL and MI

[madfloridian]

13. The rules committee member left out the part that allowed 100% stripping.

That is an important part.

Florida KNEW they could lose ALL their delegates if they voted yes to move the primary.

Under the DNC delegate selection rules, if a state party’s plan violates the rule with respect to timing, the number of its pledged delegates—those delegates awarded proportionally to candidates based on the primary or caucus results—is automatically reduced 50%(without any action by the RBC or DNC); no member of the DNC can attend the Convention as a delegate; no Member of Congress can attend the Convention as a delegate; and if applicable, the state’s Democratic governor can not attend the Convention as a delegate. In addition, any presidential candidate who campaigns in the state for the event in violation of the rules cannot receive any pledged delegates from that state.

In addition to these automatic sanctions, the DNC the RBC has authority under the rules to impose additional sanctions, including further reductions in the state’s delegation.

At its meeting on August 25, 2007, the DNC RBC found Florida’s plan in noncompliance with the DNC rules, and voted to increase the sanctions against Florida by reducing the state’s delegation by 100% unless the state party, within the 30-day period allowed by the
Committee’s regulations, submitted a plan for an alternative, state party-run process on or after February 5 that would be used to allocate delegate positions.

Obama has stated the 50% is ok with him.

But Hillary will not accept it.

[HooptieWagon]

15. Obama has also OK'd any plan for re-vote or caucus

that complies with party rules. Hillary is opposed to any re-vote or caucus.

[dbmk]

18. For those wanting to know the precise rules its 20.C.5 and 6

[dana_b]

16. If it were 50%, then the new goal would be 2117 delegates, I believe is the number

I hope they come to a fair decision and are able to seat at least that 50%. We all know some people are not going to be happy. The worst thing that can happen would for a fight about this to go on all summer.

[Hope And Change]

17. ..

[tekisui]

19. And the superdelegates?