Has your opinion of Bill and Hillary Clinton changed because of the primary election?

[KansasVoter]

Poll question: Has your opinion of Bill and Hillary Clinton changed because of the primary election?

[KansasVoter]

1. Just curious

I am just wanting to see if the major opinion about the Clintons has changed.

[saltpoint]

2. I defended Hillary against Rush and Bill against Starr but this is the

worst-run campaign I've ever seen in my life.

[Swamp Rat]

7. I won't defend them anymore.

Though I will, however, comment on their deus ex machina props to their campaign circus, as long as they continue this farce.


edit: :hangover: :D

[saltpoint]

9. Good point. If they're in the alley fight by choice and design, they

stand the same odds as anyone else there.

This woman didn't have a campaign plan in place post-Feb. 5th and now she wants to stretch it out to the Denver floor.

Jesus.

[Swamp Rat]

11. My keyboard will not allow me to type out predictions if this is taken to the Denver floor...

x(

[saltpoint]

13. I think my keyboard is the same as yours on that one.

[populistdriven]

22. I hate those hardware swear filters!

Here try this -

virtual keyboard! http://www.litetype.com/

[Swamp Rat]

26. EEP OPP ORPP OP OP!

We have one who can SEE!

[Democrat 4 Ever]

12. Why on earth do you guys stage these orchestrated attacks

on good Democrats? Do you have meetings with secret handshakes and loyalty oaths? Do you have special salutes and passwords? Do you click your heels together and chant mantras that the "Clinton must be destroyed?" Phone conferences, email lists, fax blizzards to reassure yourselves that you will annihilate Clinton and her supporters? Have parties where you serve Kool Aid cocktails with BS patties as canapes to plan your next attack?

Nothing the Clintons have done (even in your small little minds) warrants this behavior. She might not have run a "good campaign" (in your words) but she is willing to put her ideas, time and effort into a campaign. That's more than you keyboard commandos have done.

I admire her before, now and in the future. BO Maniacs are the people I use to admire and respect but no longer. Maybe BO can rein them in and something can be salvaged from all this hate.

[saltpoint]

17. You have to expect it of us. We are a subterranean cult comprised of

heartless bastards, shallow analysts, spiritually bankrupt exiles who have no lives or hope for any lives whatsoever. Our every moment is given over to subverting The Clintons.

I think you are right to call us on that, for sure, and in fact would concede that we deserve the most unspeakable modality of punishment that can possibly be arranged.

[Swamp Rat]

23. Mission Control... we have one who can SEE!

:rofl:

[saltpoint]

29. LOL!

[Democrat 4 Ever]

24. You must have me confused with one of your memos about the Clintons.

I didn't say any of that but if the shoe fits and your willing to wear it...

[saltpoint]

31. We are slime, as God is my witness!

[yardwork]

32. I too am slime. I'm repeating this robotically.

[Swamp Rat]

35. RAmen!

[boobooday]

37. Don't forget slutty, stupid bimbos

Female Obama supporters were called that yesterday.

[yardwork]

41. Oh, I missed that! Damn! I'm always being told I'm a mysogynistic pimply man.

Last night I was told to wash my mouth out with soap before kissing mommy good night and going to bed.

I'm a lesbian, true, but I'm not into mommy! Geez.

[boobooday]

52. Yes, women who support Obama like to shake their bottoms

But we're also stupid, and ugly, and jealous of the pretty girls too.

It's all here!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x361456

[JerseygirlCT]

38. LOL OC

I didn't know I was so powerful! How about that?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

25. Your passion is misplaced

and calling hundreds of people here small minded expresses that. That is abusive and you really should apologize because it is downright offensive.

I will speak for myself and say that I have never had such a change of how I feel about a political figure as I have had towards both Clinton's.

Either you do not value the truth or refuse to see what the rest of us have witnessed. Hillary's total disregard for the truth is obvious. It should have been crystal clear to you when she told outright lies about being shot at in Bosnia. How more transparent does something or someone have to be to at least make you stop and look at it with an objective gaze?

I resent being called a robot because I support Obama. I do not miss out on seeing his flaws. I know what they are and have expressed it on these boards. If you want to come across with hard facts about a candidate, fine. That is called a logical argument. Calling names is 4th grade bullshit.

BTW - part of the reason for "all of this hate" are due to posts like the one I am responding to.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

40. Giggle. You calling my passion misplaces is funny. Get thee to a mirror. n/t

[QueenOfCalifornia]

50. Giggle

all you want to.

It is what people do right before the pee on themselves.

[Indiana_Dem]

28. if there has been an orchestrated attack here then I don't know anything about it.

I just truly stated my view about the situation. All I can say is "WOW" about how many responses there have been in such a short time! I promise I haven't been a part of any planned attack online here.

[yardwork]

42. Stop trying to cover up. You know we report for brain-washing every morning at 8 am.

[Indiana_Dem]

47. oh. I'm sorry, I "forgot". ;)nt

[yardwork]

48. See that it doesn't happen again or you'll be sent back for "reprocessing."

You don't want that.

:rofl:

[Crunchy Frog]

46. Yes, that's absolutely what we do. How on Earth did you find out?

[Laurab]

53. The key words are "good Democrats".

I no longer think of either of the Clintons as "good", and the Democrat part is questionable, too. "good Democrats" they are not, although I used to like them both.

[saltpoint]

56. Ha! if you think we're going to tell you where our secret treehouse is,

you're WRONG!

[RainDog]

59. the truth is, no orchestrated attack is required. lots of ppl don't like the clintons

I voted for Bill twice. I thought he was a scumbag for lying under oath. All the legalisms about "is is" were just too much. I didn't think a blow job was worth an investigation, but since he knew his opponents were already all over him about this sort of thing, why didn't he exercise some impulse control? or if not, say it's no one's business? or tell the truth and then ask the republicans about their extra-curricular activities?

Hillary was the only democrat going into this campaign that I did not want to have to vote for. When she was the assumed nominee early on, I just quit watching the news and resigned myself to holding my nose and voting for her and feeling sick that the democratic party couldn't offer anything other than yet another corporate toady.

Bill Clinton governed as a republican. it was the climate of the time and it was politically expedient. he put more ppl into jail b/c of mj use than prior presidents... to prove how tough he was on a victimless crime, I suppose. He put the strictest embargos on Cuba it had ever faced. Nafta, cafta, playing to the racists with welfare reform.

As of March, when Clinton put herself and McCain as they only two qualified candidates, I said at that time that I would never vote for her. And I won't.

I now detest her. She earned it, if you ask me. What she did had NEVER been done by any democrat before. It's still unbelievable to me. She makes me sick b/c she claims to be the "feminist" candidate, yet she got into office on her husband's coat tails. Then other women are supposedly "duped" because we don't support her?

She is politically calculating (the IWR) because she wants power. She doesn't act out of conviction. Honestly. I don't know of one thing she actually cares about. She fakes this southern-ish accent.. that drives me crazy since I'm from the south. She sounds like a bad version of Hee-Haw, ya'll.

She, too, will govern as a conservative democrat, and frankly, I am sick of conservative democrats.

Those are my honest opinions. I wasn't an Obama supporter until Feb. or so. Since then, I have phone banked, volunteered and given money to his campaign. So I'm not just a "keyboard commando."

My two sons can vote for the first time this year. They both voted for Obama. They aren't thrilled with Clinton either. When my kids were in elementary school, their teachers had to deal with the constant talk about a president who was getting impeached b/c he lied about a blow job. I can remember those conversations with them and their friends when I tried to explain the subtleties of cheating on your wife by getting a blow job from a girl near the age of his daughter and yet he wasn't a bad president.

Get it now? Understand why I don't like them? It has nothing to do with an orchestrated campaign. It has to do with a history of dealing with them. I wish they would GO HOME. I don't expect them to work for Obama since that's also not their style... sore losers and all. But at least they can stop trying to undermine the democratic candidate.

[NC_Nurse]

3. I liked them early on, but was disenchanted long before this primary.

Not long after he was elected in '92, actually. I was pretty disappointed in his presidency overall, esp. after
working for his campaign. Haven't lifted a finger since then until Obama. Donated some money to Kerry.

If Obama gets screwed out of this nomination by the Clinton's and their distasteful campaigning, I'll be
going back into political hibernation.

[Indiana_Dem]

4. I liked them before but now it's not that I don't like them--

I just don't trust them. NAFTA was the beginning during Bill's presidency, what has transpired over this campaign has lessened my respect. There are lots of good things they've done but they should've stopped while they were ahead. Bill was doing a good job with Bush, Sr. before all of Hillary's campaigning. I felt he was healing some wounds. Now it seems all nil. I am just disappointed.

[RazBerryBeret]

6. his closeness with the Bushes

made me rethink my support a little.
I was always disappointed that he never investigated Iran Contra.
But I did support him, defend him and vote for him twice.

[Cosmocat]

43. Stop while ahead ... IMO, Hill SHOULD have angled for VP ...

I have always felt that should have been what she should have worked for, cause while she might have won the D primary, a general election would have been TOO darn close with her bringing out the right in droves - AND, that it would subject the country to the Clinton years part deux ...

IMO, had she not run now, I think any D candidate would have been CRAZY to not pick her as VP, and as a VP she would bring all her strengths and have the Clinton negatives mitigated ...

Edwards/Hill
BO/Hill

Whoever ... Just a MONSTER ticket ...

THEN, after two good terms, she would have been set to make her presidential bid ...

I am sick and tired her, but really not surprised ... I have always said that the reason the right hates her and Bill so much is because they play the R game and beat them at it ... It is distasteful against another D, and particulary one who is relentlessly taking the high road instead of getting into the mud ...

But, this is what they are ... Fight for today, say and do what you can to win the battle you are in, and deal with tomorrow tomorrow ...

[NaturalHigh]

5. I still think Bill Clinton was a great president, but I would never vote for his wife.

[yardwork]

8. I defended the Clintons for years. I was disappointed in Bill's lying about Monica

and thought he should have resigned and let Gore take over as president, but I didn't feel it was fair or right that the Republicans hunted Bill Clinton.

I greatly admired Bill's speech at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. I had nothing but respect for Hillary. I was a Hillary supporter up until a few months ago.

In the past 48 hours my disappointment in the Clintons for running a polluted campaign has turned to absolute disgust, and the recognition that they are in on what is wrong with this country. The Clintons are obviously part of the corporatist cabal that seeks to destroy the Constitution entirely in the name of profit.

I will never trust either one of them again. Along the way, they've exposed a number of their colleagues as equally crooked. I'll consider Geraldine Ferraro a sad racist from now on...the list goes on. It's sad.

My eyes are really open now. I used to think it was just the Republicans we had to fight. Now I see that things are much, much worse.

[Swamp Rat]

21. The sex itself was not an issue for me.

The lying about it was forgivable, as it was none of our business. What bothered me was the power differential between Bill and the lowly intern. I don't know if 'sexist' or 'sexual harassment' is the proper terminology, but I believe it may be considered a psychologically abusive relationship, considering their roles.

I, too, supported Hillary (as a last choice among the Dems, with whom I was familiar) until late February - I knew nothing about Obama at that time. Since then I have discovered a LOT about Hillary by doing my own research, and found she represents what I dislike most about the Democratic Party - the DLC dark side.

Her IWR vote is unforgivable, and there is NO excuse.

[yardwork]

27. Unsurprisingly, I agree with all your points.

The reason I thought Bill should have resigned was that it was clear that the whole mess was making Democrats look bad. If he had stepped down and let Gore take over the end of his term, Gore would have been elected easily in 2000, continuing the Democratic hold on the White House.

Instead, the Clintons fought. I didn't really blame them at the time. I thought they were unfairly persecuted. I felt that even more strongly as the documentaries and books came out detailing just how relentless the persecution had been. Now I see the larger picture.

As bad as the persecution of the Clintons was, they are still "part of the team." The corporatist fascist team has taken over and I fear that they are not going to allow a true Democrat to be elected. I intend to do all that I can to fight them.

President Barack Obama will be elected president of the United States of America in November, 2008.

[Swamp Rat]

30. President Barack Obama!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I want a t-shirt! :D

[yardwork]

33. Do it! You'll make a mint.

[JerseygirlCT]

39. There are really times

when it's painful to have your eyes opened. And you'd almost rather not have experienced it.

My experience is similar to yours, I'm afraid.

[Maureen54]

10. defended many times over

But never again.

[crankychatter]

14. NAFTA, CAFTA and the War on the Poor + Hillary's HMO Monopoly "Health Care" plan

pretty much put ME off

I defended them with flame throwers though... just like most Democrats

This campaign has only CONFIRMED my previously held opinions

Before some snot shoots me down, let me say that the absence of a "Mandatory" feature in Obama's health care proposals will KEEP SINGLE PAYER on the back burner... while Clinton's will give the Industry a permanent justification for delaying single payer, by touting universality.

It's always the "lesser of evils," isn't it?

[KittyWampus]

15. it's more, I always KNEW their entire history, accepted it and stood up for them mainly

because they were Democrats and for party unity.

[mcctatas]

16. other...

I used to love them and I'm sure I will love them again...

[FrenchieCat]

18. Yes, greatly.

They are no longer people that I believe can be trusted when it comes to making decisions about my and my children's futures.

If feel betrayed and used.

[Mme. Defarge]

19. Bill was not my first pick for a candidate in '92,

but we had to defeat Bush I. So, I was a foot soldier for him in both campaigns. The Monica episode made me very angry with him, but I was convinced that the Republicans were attempting to unseat a democratically elected president, and that made me angrier at them. Now I understand how the Clintons' betrayed progressive causes.

As for Hillary, I felt I couldn't support her as the Democratic presidential nominee because of her IWV, her ties to lobbyists, and her unwillingness to take any consistent stand on controversial issues. There was a moment, however, during the debate held right before the New Hampshire primary, where I felt I could support any of the Democratic candidates -- including Hillary. I have to say that EVERYTHING she has done since that debate has only served to confirm my worst concerns about her; in fact, in my wildest imaginings, I never dreamed that I would witness such incompetence and utter shamelessness as the Clintons' have displayed, played out in slow motion before our eyes. It is simply STUPEFYING!

[QueenOfCalifornia]

20. I used to like them

now? Forget it. I supported the Clinton's and rooted for Hillary to win her seat as a senator. I gave Bill the benefit of the doubt. I always hated the ramming of NAFTA down our collective throats but I tried to focus on the positive aspects of his presidency.

Now I think I was way too blind to their motivations. I even question Vince Foster's death - something I never did prior to this horrible campaign.

[JerseygirlCT]

34. It really has, and sadly, not for the good.

I'm seeing glimpses of what so many had always complained about wrt the Clintons. That's a shame.

[Forkboy]

36. Yes to both.

I admit I was never a huge fan of either, but I did like many things about both (I would have voted for Hillary in 2000 over Gore had she run then). Bill was always quick and on top of the issues, even if you didn't agree with his take. I think he's lost some of that political tact, mostly because of loyalty to his wife, which is an understandable thing.

[elana i am]

44. i voted never liked them and still don't...

it seems unusual around here but i see there are at least 11 of us. i was a teenager then and my mom made examples of them. "bill's a sleaze, hillary's pathetic. don't ever let a man do to you what he did to hillary."

i simply never thought of them as good dems or good people. from my perspective, bills bad behavior led to the uprising of repug dominance like shrub is now doing to them.

[undeterred]

45. It was a thrill for me to shake Bill Clinton's hand two years ago

I got to be onstage in the risers behind him when he campaigned for our governor. I took a day off from work and stood around for hours waiting for him. He gave a great speech and was warm and friendly to all of us. Probably the only time I will shake a presidents hand in my lifetime.

After this year, I think he has gone off the deep end. I wouldn't go out of my way to see him. His strategy shows that he wants back in the WH at any cost. If he thinks Hillary is so wonderful, why couldn't he keep his pants zipped up? Actions- faithfulness to one's partner- speak a lot louder than words.

[ccharles000]

49. I adore them.

[LWolf]

51. No.

I always recognized their strengths, and still do.

I was never a fan of either, and am still not.

My opinion of Obama has gone from one of disinterest strongly laced with mistrust, to open opposition.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. My opinion of them remains the same. Pandering, 3rd way, neolibs.

This campaign has exposed them for what they are.

[Fox Mulder]

55. There was a time when I respected both of them.

But now I couldn't care less about those two.

[MilesColtrane]

57. Other.

I used to like Bill, now I find him annoying and embarrassing.

I used to find Hillary merely annoying, now she appalls me and I am disgusted by her.

[quakerboy]

58. I was respectufully neutral towards them before

and now I don't care too much for either of them. It is saddening to me, because Bill was the closest thing to a good president I have experienced.

[Zavulon]

60. I used to like Bill, never liked Hillary.

Now I'm lukewarm on Bill despite my gratitude for his eight years, and Hillary ranks below several Republicans on my list. I think she's scum.

[rhombus]

61. Liked Bill a lot, didn't know much about Hillary

Now I'm very negative on both of them.

[Ino]

62. Never felt one way or the other about Hillary

but I liked Bill, defended him, agreed with the "right wing conspiracy." Was actually excited about getting a Clinton back in the WH to clean up after Bush... until I started looking into Hillary's conservative-pandering voting record. Then I wrestled a bit with my desire for a female president, but her arrogant sense of entitlement, her wasteful spending, her "I'll be the nominee by Feb 5, so no point in planning ahead" campaign, her Rove-like tactics turned me off forever.

Now I'm very deeply disappointed in Bill, and despise his wife.

[TexasObserver]

63. I'd always liked Bill, and always considered Hillary an overachieving hanger-on

Hillary likes to think they had a copresidency, but she lacks the skills and qualities necessary to be a president, by a long, long way.

[scarletwoman]

64. I was pretty well over Bill by the end of his first term. He wasn't my first choice in 1992, but

when he became the nominee, I did what I have always have done and sucked it up and voted for him. I loved his first inauguration -- what a great party!

It was so hopeful and exciting, I actually allowed myself to feel a little optimistic, that maybe after all the awfulness of the Reagan/Bush years, some light was really going to dawn.

Well, it didn't take too long to see that THAT wasn't happening. Snookered again -- nothing new here at all. Same old government of/by/for the plutocracy.

By then I essentially didn't give a damn about the Clintons. I voted for him again in 1996, only because he was the Democrat, and that's what I've always done is vote for the Democrat. I knew he was just a golden-tongued huckster by then, but at least he was an intelligent huckster and nominally a Democrat, which was still a far sight better than a Republican.

I now bitterly regret defending him through the impeachment bullshit. As others have pointed out, had Clinton resigned back then, we'd most likely be in our 10th year of a Gore administration. But like just about every other loyal Democrat back then, I was all about closing ranks with "my side" against the evil repugs as a matter of blind principle. Tribalism triumphant.

I wish I had been a whole lot smarter then, I would have called for Bill Clinton's head and demanded that Gore take over.

His not granting clemency for Leonard Peltier, but pardoning Marc Rich at the end of his 2nd term just sealed it for me that Bill Clinton was nothing but a charming sleazebag.

As for Hillary, I figured any woman who stayed married to someone like Bill obviously had more ambition than self-respect -- not to mention my utter abhorrance of the neoliberalism that they both espouse.

I've wanted the Clintons and the DLC out of the Democratic Party for years, and have been speaking out against them long before this nomination race ever began. By 2002 I was writing posts right here on DU begging DUers to NOT support in any way, shape, or form, a Hillary Clinton candidacy.

I am still disappointed beyond measure that anyone who would call themselves a "progressive" could possibly support Hillary Clinton -- it defies logic. To me it bespeaks a sad political naivite, if not an outright willfull ignorance about the true nature of the power arrangements of the Ruling Class.

To Hillary supporters, I just want to say "Will you please WAKE THE FUCK UP!? She is NOT ON YOUR SIDE! She is not on OUR side! She works for the Owners, her policies will be for the benefit of the Owners. She will keep the maws of militarism and corporate globalism well fed. She, like Bill before her, will trample out any hint of class warfare.

Sorry for the rant.

I voted "never liked", btw.

sw