Geller and Gelber, Florida House and Senate minority leaders...complicity.

[madfloridian]

Dan Gelber is/was the minority leader in the Florida House, Steve Geller is/was the Florida Senate minority leader.

They were major players in moving up Florida's primary because of their positions.

We have seen the video of Steve Geller introducing his amendment. It was all a big joke to him. It was an amendment made to make them look like they had shown "good faith" and made an effort. Here is the video if somehow you missed it.

Steve Geller has filed a lawsuit against Dean, one of two pending.

I will repost something I posted about Dan Gelber, though I am not as critical of him. He is not suing, he apologized to Dean for his rudeness, and he is supporting Obama.

But still he played a role in the beginning.

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.

Gelber publicly on TV here said he did not represent Howard Dean, and a few other words.

Here is a portion of a letter he wrote to Dean. He admits they did not fight the GOP. Remember, they HAD to fight the GOP if they wanted to take advantage of the "good faith" clause in the DNC rules.

Much of the back and forth and criticism of Florida by the DNC has been focused on the conduct of the Democratic legislators who – some argue – did not fight against the early primary bill. Yes, there is gambling in Casablanca. Of course we didn't fight against the bill. When the Republican leadership made it clear that this was their priority, Democrats had two choices: support something their constituents support and that was going to become law anyway; or support the DNC Rules Committee enforcement of a primary system that our constituents revile. For me, this decision was easy.

No "good faith" shown.

The DNC had the following information when they voted to sanction Florida.

. Florida Democratic Legislators sponsored the bill to move the primary to January 29th;

2. Florida House Democratic Legislators voted in committee three times for the bill to move the primary to January 29;

3. All but one Florida House Democratic Legislator vote on the floor to move the primary to January 29; and,

4. Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after receiving a call from DNC Chair asking for help in opposing setting the primary date before February 5, “I don’t represent Howard Dean.”

5. Florida House Democratic Leader Dan Gelber stated, after offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5th, that the only reason he offer it was “to show that there was an attempt to state within the Democratic Party rules.” The amendment failed on a voice vote with no debate being offered.

6. Florida Senate Democratic Legislators voted in committee to move the primary to January;

7. Florida Senate Democratic Leader Steve Geller stated on the Senate floor that he was offering an amendment to move the primary to February 5 only because he was threatened by DNC Chair Howard Dean. Sen. Geller than mocked his own amendment which failed on a voice vote without any debate.

If I had been on the rules committee that had that information when they met, I would have been prone to believe that absolutely no "good faith" was shown. All Florida had to do was fight them, but they did not do that.

More on the subject here.

[slinkerwink]

1. kicking for the truth

[madfloridian]

2. Thank you.

:hi:

[zanne]

3. Hillary supporters: Please direct your anger at this man. nt

[Ravy]

12. For what????

He has a constituency that wanted the primary early. He represented them.

He is not supposed to take orders from the DNC.

So the argument here is "he got in a pissing match with Howard Dean" so the DNC is right to impose the maximum penalty against Florida, instead of the minumum.

Stupid and childish on the DNCs part, if you ask me.

As I posted on another thread, we were a week early, according to the DNC calendar. We were after their "anointed four", and didn't even take campaign time from them, nor get revenues from them campaigning in the state. We didn't bitch about any of that. We are republican controlled and probably could not have stopped it.

If that isn't the case for a minimum penalty (half the delegation) then I don't know why they would even have a minimum penalty.

This is about two politicians showing their dicks in public and the retribution against the Florida voters that followed.

[madfloridian]

14. Geller is acting like a fool. He has hurt all of us with his pathetic charade.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r25wUeMAwdE

And did you see him on Lou Dobbs show? He was helping Lou Dobbs ridicule Howard Dean and the party. That was last week.

He is a pathetic man who is leaving the Senate and should never be elected to anything in Florida again.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=137109&mesg_id=137109

[Ravy]

17. And Dean is looking equally foolish in the process.

Geller is supposed to represent his constituents, whom I believe wanted this.

Dean is supposed to be representing the DNC. He did not serve them well by going after all the delegates. From someone who said they represented the "Adult wing" of the Democratic party, that was pretty childish and vindictive.

[madfloridian]

19. Dean was not at the meeting....the RBC did it. FL did not mind losing 50%

they expected to lose them. They defied the rules committee.

Congrats to the Clintons. They have turned us on ourselves.

[madfloridian]

20. Dean is about the only one NOT looking foolish. Hillary looks pathetic.

[bvar22]

27. Sheesh.

Low. Information. Voters.
Where do all these misinformed/ill-informed people come from?
:shrug:

[Dr.Phool]

40. I'll put up a good post on the Florida Legislature tomorrow.

You won't believe the kind of idiots we elect down here.

[madfloridian]

42. Give me a heads up when you get it posted.

.

[Cha]

46. You'd think they'd be a little more

knowledgeable having a computer and all.

[Tatiana]

23. Dean did not issue the punishment.

How the F do you think DNC members representing other states felt at Florida leapfrogging all of them?

Honestly! They weren't going to just say "Sure, go ahead."

[Ravy]

26. You are telling me that the DNC chair can tell a Florida representative what to do,

but is powerless in his own rules committee.

I don't buy that.

[madfloridian]

28. Dean can not nor should he dictate to any committee

[Ravy]

29. Nor any Florida legislature, IMHO. nt

[madfloridian]

31. That response is so silly. It is meaningless. Hillary needs to stop all of this stuff.

And get the people involved to be honest.

I will never forget how she manipulated this state for her benefit.

[progressoid]

25. There you go with the 'one week' BS again.

"and didn't even take campaign time from them, nor get revenues from them campaigning in the state.

That's true of the first four states, but Florida would have taken campaign time and revenues away from the other 22 Super Tuesday states if DNC had let you get away with it.

Apparently that's OK? :shrug:

[Ken Burch]

33. yes you could have. It would've been enough to have a caucus after the date.

And nobody was supposed to gain delegates from the place, so any support HRC got from their is illegitimate. It can't fairly be considered part of the popular vote total, since nobody else tried to win there.

And you know Obama would still be ahead even if half your delegation were seated.

[CTLawGuy]

41. so then I guess "his constituency" doesn't mind being

disenfranchised.

[Carolina]

51. so if every state wants its primary early

then what?

The DNC Rules Committee, on which HRC had 15 members, set the rules to avoid chaos!

Read and be educated! http://www.alternet.org/election08/86359/?page=entire

Your stance is idiotic!

[madfloridian]

4. From the St Pete Times last August...Gelber and Jeremy Ring mentioned

Drama is not yet over in Florida

"How can the mean ol' Democratic National Committee punish beleaguered Florida Democrats for the Republican-controlled legislature and governor deciding to move the presidential primary so early in violation of committee rules?

Puh-lease.

Party chairman Howard Dean might swallow that if a Democratic state senator, Jeremy Ring, hadn't sponsored the original bill moving the primary to Jan. 29. Besides, Dean knows he lobbied early on to get Democrats to back off the bill and folks like House Democratic leader Dan Gelber blew him off publicly."

More from the St Pete Times at the time:

"Might the Democratic National Committee foist on America's biggest battleground state some kind of unwanted delegate selection plan for the presidential nominating process? The party rules allow that scenario, which sounds possible from Howard Dean's comments the other day to a South Carolina TV reporter.

Remember that the DNC carved out Jan. 29 for South Carolina to hold the first southern Democratic primary, only to have Florida leaders schedule the Sunshine state for the same day. Fl Democrats are trying to keep a straight face as they blame it all on Florida Republicans."

So much damage has been done by and to this state because of this primary. I don't know if it will be repaired.

[slinkerwink]

6. you Floridians need to vote out these FL party officials

[madfloridian]

8. I agree.

But most are unaware.

[Ravy]

30. I am not talking about punishment... I am talking about the "Death Penalty".

The punishment was laid out, with a provision saying that was the minimum. What was it about Florida's actions that warranted sanctions above the minimum? Someone got their feelings hurt at the DNC?

The DNC decided to go for it all, a total ban on Florida votes. They will have to learn to live with the ramifications of that decision.

[Sancho]

45. I tend to agree. Excluding all delegates and campaigning in Florida was too much.

It didn't punish the original bad decisions of the leadership, but provides a way to let the GOP get people in a swing state mad at the DNC.

[madfloridian]

50. Did you know that FL leaders were willing to accept the 50% and move ahead anyway?

I totally disagree with you. Florida only had to vote no.. and put up a fight.

[Sancho]

57. Sorry, but this may be our most difficult point of disagreement. My view:

They could not vote "no" without voting against paper trails and schools and many other issues in the same bill. I think that is very obvious. Why protest against something that you can't change and give the GOP a reason to defeat you. I have all kinds of crazy mailings from the GOP about Bill Heller, Betty Castor, and others as waffling in each election. The GOP was waiting for that..like Bill Heller introducing a tax referendum for schools and then voting against his own position? The same with Charlie Justice and insurance regulations. It was like that for every individual representative. Can you imagine telling Christine Jennings that you thought it was ok that her election was just hacked by computers and that you were voting against a paper trail when the primary date would not change anyway? A protest vote was not useful but a paper trail was important to the voters who sent you to Tallahassee.

That is EXACTLY what every local representative said happened to them. You can blame the top leadership for the original mess, but the penalty doesn't make sense for the voters and those representatives who didn't do a thing wrong. The GOP was quite intelligent to package the legislation the way they did...and the DNC should recognize it. If they don't, they run the risk that either courts will intervene or that voters in Florida will swing the state and cost the November election.

Most importantly for the accepting the 50% penalty; the DNC had already banned campaigning, which was the real issue for both the GOP and FDP. The GOP allowed campaigns and debates for their candidates in Florida. Without a Democratic campaign, there was little chance to get new registrations and "test" that the registered voter was going to be allowed to vote in the general election. Florida GOP intends to cage votes in 2008 with picture id's and residency addresses and birth dates. A closed primary with many new folks showing up to support Obama (or anyone else) develops the base, dollars, and PROVES the person was eligible to vote. I'm sure thousands will be excited to go to the general election and have their ballot disallowed in November.

There was no way to put up a fight with the legislation packaged with the primary. We may not ever agree on the amount of fight needed to satisfy the DNC, but I can't see any punishment for the culprits at this point, but lots of punishment for the Democratic voters. If anything, the worst Fl leaders are getting lots of free TV time about this and very little sanction from the DNC. How are Geller and Gelber being punished? There was no way to vote to accept a punishment if it included a ban on campaigning and let the offenders off.

Do you have the FDP staff analysis before changing the primary date? It is a pdf file that I can try to send to you. Some of the issues in changing the primary date are anticipated and there is an overall focus on the issue of campaigning, not 50% delegates. I suspect that no matter the number of delegates, the penalty of no campaigning would be hard for most FL legislators to accept as reasonable punishment. It ends,

"Finally, it is important to note that Florida, a state which has decided presidential elections and
is considered competitive by both major parities, is widely recognized as a leading state for
fundraising efforts by presidential candidates. If presidential candidates are going to utilize
Florida for the extraction of financial resources that under the current campaign format are
utilized in states such as Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, then it should seem
reasonable for the people of Florida to expect presidential candidates to also dedicate time and
resources campaigning in the State of Florida."

[Sancho]

63. Putting up a fight is where we disagree, because we often agree.

The Fl Black Caucus was one of the groups that did not want to vote "no", and they were not supporting Hillary. They wanted a paper trail and election reform.

The threatening letter from "four states" (not from the DNC, but blessed by the DNC) was an underhanded deal that avoided the rules. Because Fl would lose campaigning, their own staff report recommend fighting was a fight with no reward for winning.

The GOP manipulated a lesser penalty (50% AND campaigning) instead of FL and MI punishment. That was unfair to the states and candidates and the DNC could have done better by equalling the GOP penalty.

All in all, I think that the deals already in place would have made a "fight" by Fl to be futile anyway.

Regardless, I respect your efforts even if we sometimes have a different conclusion...


:hug:

[tbyg52]

5. Thanks for keeping the truth out there! nt

[CherokeeDem]

7. Send this to Olbermann....

I saw Sen Bill Nelson on MSNBC last week and he blamed the entire situation on the FL GOP. As much as I dislike the FL GOP from all the years I lived in Miami, they only took advantage of the greed of the FL Dems who wanted the money and attention a early primary would bring. Gelber and I never got along but I did eventually gain some measure of respect for him, Geller...an opportunist. His brother, Joe, was Chair of Miami-Dade DEC and was a good guy...Steve Geller is not.

I sent into to Olbermann regarding Sen Jeremy Ring the Fl Democratic who introduce the bill to begin with. What is fair is fair and the citizens of Florida are suffering because of their Party "leadership.".
The truth needs to come out.

[madfloridian]

10. Here is more about Jeremy Ring.

Jeremy Ring (D-FL) said "relevance is more important than "partying" in Denver.

And Jeremy Ring, a Democratic state senator from Broward County and co-sponsor of the legislation, defended it.

"If the choice is Florida is relevant and has no delegates versus being irrelevant and having delegates, I'd choose being relevant with no delegates," Ring said. "We did this so 18 million Floridians could take part in the presidential primaries, not so a few hundred people can go to a party in Denver."

That Party in Denver is the convention.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

9. Dean should have that video of Geller played in court - on a wide screen

that would pretty much end it.

[madfloridian]

16. I think the rules committee had the transcript, but we should send them the video

in case they did not have it last year.

[Terri S]

11. K & R

Thank you for continuing to bring out the truth in this whole fiasco. We need to seriously clean house down here in the next election.

[madfloridian]

13. This is so sad...what Bill Clinton has been doing. Article and video.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/26/bill.clinton.mon/#cnnSTCVideo

He is alleging a cover up of some kind to keep Hillary from winning.

He is spinning the FL numbers.

[me b zola]

15. K&R

Much respect is due to you, madfloridian, for your work on getting the truth out on this subject. :applause:


madfloridian, :yourock:

[cliffordu]

18. K&R - and a personal thanks for all your hard work -

I wouldn't have a clue as to what's happening in Fla if it wasn't for your posts.

THANKS!!

[grantcart]

21. I finally figured out what your remind me of

[madfloridian]

22. Wow, grantcart...

Beautiful picture and I take it as a great compliment.

Thank you. :hi:

[Tatiana]

24. Yeah me too!

[ekwhite]

32. K&R N/T

[madrchsod]

34. won`t it be nice when this is no longer an issue....

people here at du go on about the "chicago machine" but illinois can not touch the level of corruption that inflects the state of florida. it`s both the democrats and republicans that treat the people of florida as if they were serfs.

maybe the citizens of florida will decide that the corruption serves only those who reap the rewards.

[OzarkDem]

35. Get over it

You have an unhealthy obsession with this topic.

Many, many states compete to move up their primary date. Florida was singled out for extraordinary punishment. As a result, Dems are divided and the GOP will win the GE because Obama supporters don't want to diminish his chances of winning by letting FL delegates be seated.

Obama supporters will probably prevail, he'll get the nom and will lose the GE.

Blame it on his intransigence in conflating the issue far beyond its importance.

Keep the tinfoil, hat though. You'll need it for the McCain presidency.

[madfloridian]

36. Personal attack on me...you say Obama will lose GE, and McCain will win.

Good for you.

List..updating...

[IsItJustMe]

38. Don't take it personal madfloridian, this poster spreads this vile all over DU. Sad.

[madfloridian]

39. When she does that to others...

they should alert on her as I did.

She should not get away with doing it time after time.

[Carolina]

52. you get over it; you sound like Scalia

twist, distort and cheat and then say get over it.

Keep on carrying water for Hi-liar-y Rotten Clinton.

The truth is not tinfoil. Handle it

http://www.alternet.org/election08/86359/?page=entire

[fight4my3sons]

37. thank you for all of your hard work compiling all of this

and keeping all of us up to date.

k&r

[madfloridian]

43. Just imagine the legislature's minority leaders refusing to fight

so the peoples' votes for delegates could count.

They gave up and folded. And never told the truth about what they did.

[ChiciB1]

48. And It Seems They're Trying To Pass The Buck Now To Cover Their Asses!! n/t

[Sancho]

44. I would agree that the FL leadership was weak, complicit, too little too late!

Depending on the individual, the FL leadership screwed up. I'm not sure that ALL the regular representatives and senators were as bad. I can't tell who was doing what behind the scenes. Some state elected officials would also have acted differently, but were caught in a no win situation once the date of the primary was set and the multiple ballot initiatives were included.

I cannot repeat enough that some of the FL Democratic Leadership helped create and compound this mess. I think that punishing Florida as harshly as was done plays into the GOP plans.

The big question for me is how to get the voters (who really had no say in this once it happened) back to the table. Either Obama or Hillary or both will have to concede something and agree on a deal, or else it will end up in court.

I'd prefer action that keeps it out of court. I've received a bunch of calls, emails, and cards like this. I won't be there, but it will be sensational fodder for the pundits and TV. I suspect that everyone registered as a Democrat in Florida gets similar things. This could get ugly.

Florida Demands Representation
Count Our Votes Rally
Vic DiMaio's Lawsuit will be heard in Tampa! In Federal Court!!!
ALL NATIONAL MEDIA WILL BE PRESENT (CNN, NBC, etc.)
FDR NEEDS AS MANY PEOPLE TO DEMONSTRATE AT THE FEDERAL COURT HOUSE!!!!!

Where: US Federal Court House
801 N Florida Ave
Tampa, FL

We need volunteers to demonstrate:

a. Tuesday evening from 4PM - 7PM (May 27th)
b. Wednesday morning from 7AM - 9AM (May 28th)
c. To be present in the court house during arguments (with FDR T-shirts) (9:30AM - May 28th)

To attend or volunteer for this event email [e-mail] or call 888/599-1586. Please let us know which of the three activities you can assist us in!!!

Remember, this is YOUR Democracy!
This is YOUR VOTE! Help us make it count!!

[ChiciB1]

47. All I Want To Say Is This... QUIT Blaming Howard Dean!!!! I'm Sick Of

people "not understanding" what REALLY happened. Dean told them NOT to move the primary, but they went ahead with what they wanted!

Then BILL NELSON decided to take the issue to court, which was absolutely STUPID, so let's not forget him either. Nelson is so DLC, if not almost Repuke and I can't stand him!

But to those of you who continue to blame HOWARD DEAN, I say "back off!" THEY knew what they were doing and NOW I wonder how many other fingers were in the pie!!

It really SUCKS!!!

[ChiciB1]

49. Just Thought I Would Add This... I'm Not A Clinton OR Obama Supporter....

but I DO LIVE IN FLORIDA!

[Carolina]

53. Thanks madfloridian

Your posts are always superb!

[Divine Discontent]

54. K&R 19 for truth, thank you for your spreading of the info on this disastrous failure...

it is deeply appreciated.



New Obama Items Weekly!
www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[madfloridian]

55. FL is being used for propaganda purposes....

it angers me so much.

[Divine Discontent]

56. b bbu but you're just not allowing the voice of the people to be heard!

:eyes:

[crickets]

58. madfloridian, thank you for continuing to post about this.

The information is invaluable in understanding what the heck has really been going on in FL. K&R.

[madfloridian]

59. It is just not being covered. Not honestly.

Even Bob Graham spun today on CNN, and I trusted him. It's sad.

[The Backlash Cometh]

60. kick

[madfloridian]

61. And another...

because.. people need to know.

[madfloridian]

62. In the words of RBC chairman Jim Roosevelt.

"Jim Roosevelt, co-chairman of the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee, said he spent hours on the phone with members of Congress and other Florida Democrats, including Thurman. But none of the options suggested by the national party were acceptable to Florida Democrats.

"There was a point where realism was called for and it didn't prevail," said Roosevelt. "You've got to accept reality that the rules will stay in place, and that you've got to come up with a plan that works."

On June 10, dozens of members of the state Democratic executive committee voted overwhelmingly to stick with the Jan. 29 primary. They knew mercy from the DNC was unlikely.

On Aug. 25, the DNC's rules committee voted to strip away all of Florida's delegates. Florida's clout cowed no one."

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/10/07/State/Florida_faces_a_prima.shtml

And the words of Chairman Dean from December 2006...they were warned.

The penalties Florida faced for scheduling an early primary were by no means secret.

"If they move it into January, their delegates won't count in the Democratic convention, so I wouldn't advise that," Howard Dean had warned in the St. Petersburg Times in December 2006.

FL Dems complicit

[madfloridian]

64. Florida did it to themselves.

.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

65. Thanks so much. This helps me out so much! n/t

[madfloridian]

66. Truth matters.

The media has been complicit with the Florida Democrats. We have not gotten the truth.