Why are Educated Voters more likely to vote for Barack Obama?

[FrenchieCat]

Is there something that they know that the uneducated voters don't?

Well, I believe that yes....they do.

These are the voters who follow politics quite a bit more. They are versed on the issues, and have a tendency to do the adequate research necessary to make informed political decisions.

These are also the voters that will least likely vote for John McCain; in other words, they are not at risk transferable voters.....

They are also voters who most intelligently understand that racism is a disease upon our society.

What other reasons can you think of as to why the College Educated voters tend to vote for Barack Obama?

[phrigndumass]

1. Educated voters are free-thinkers

I agree, they are more versed on the issues and actually enjoy being informed. And they're more likely to not let "politics" sway their decisions.

K/R :hi:

[polpilot]

128. Ignorant want Hillary...others don't.

[styersc]

140. You shouldn't even stoop to the level of stupid Hillary supporters

to ask for our votes. You can handle this election as effectively as the elite took the Whitehouse for Dukakis.

Stupid people will find it so much easier to recognize McCain's name on the ballot anyway.

[FrenchieCat]

154. NeoCons aren't called that for nothing......

Neo-N. Get it! :rofl:

[MercutioATC]

2. Educated voters are more able to evaluate complicated issues.

There's not one issue facing us that's simple.

Obama's plans address the complexities of the issues, and some uneducated voters don't have the skills necessary to follow the discussion.

Clinton and McCain offer simple "solutions" to these problems that won't solve anything (like the Federal gas tax holiday).

[JerseygirlCT]

149. And distrustful of, and sometimes insulted by, easy answers

to complex questions.

As an example, the gas tax holiday pander. I felt that highly insulting to my intelligence - and, frankly, to hers!

[MercutioATC]

157. Exactly. I can deal with hard truths. I don't need sunshine blown up my ass.

...especially when the "fix" would arguably cause more harm than the original problem.

[RNdaSilva]

177. Hillary's Gas Tax Holiday...

About 70% of the primary voters in West Virginia bought into her pandering Gas Tax Holiday...less than 30% in the Oregon primary. Is there a message there somewhere? This was based on exit polls.

Admittedly, Hillary's pandering of this issue was a notch below McCain's.

[FrenchieCat]

199. Are they still waiting for this holiday? Cause summer is upon us.

[Alexander]

207. West Virginians didn't vote for Clinton because of the gas tax holiday.

There are other factors to consider.

[Whalestoe]

3. Because they're "elitists"

:eyes:

[dchill]

4. They're high-information voters.

:hi:

[LSparkle]

5. They recognize one of their own ... after 8 years of a C student in the WH

More educated voters can't wait to have a president
who can correctly use (and pronounce!) 5-syllable
words.

I also agree with you about more educated voters
understanding what a scourge racism is ... Those
who are more educated (dare I say "enlightened"?)
have likely encountered more people who are different
from them through exposure to our colleges and
universities -- and have experienced how we are
more similar in reality than we are different.
Those who never went beyond high school may also
have not gone further than their home town, and
have not made this discovery.

[FrenchieCat]

6. Here are some interesting stats on Educated Voters.....

The biggest change, in fact, came about among those with postgraduate educations, who went from an 8-point margin for Obama in the March sample to a 29-point margin now. In other words, Obama's increase in support overall among whites during this period looks like it occurred for the most part among those with college and in particular postgraduate educations.
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/update_pennsylvania_results_by.php

[WillyT]

7. Because We're Smarter ???

What do I win???

:hide::evilgrin::hide:

:hi:

[FrenchieCat]

11. A Book for being audaciously so intelligent!

[napi21]

8. I also think they've been exposed to many cultures other than theirs.

I grew up in a small town just north of Pittsburgh, Pa. In that area there were five small towns clustered next to each other, but each one had a factory of some kind where almost everyone worked. There were people who NEVER left their own little town, and all they knew were their experiences and people who were their close neighbors. Most humans are afraid of the unknown. I'd bet few if any of them had ever actually met a black family, because none lived in any of those little towns. I never met anyone who was black until I got my first job in Downtwon Pittsburgh.

[flor de jasmim]

9. We have an appreciation for nuanced discourse and to be treated as adults

For me the ideal politician is someone who I sense is obviously smarter than I am yet treats me as though I am his/her equal.
I can be won over by unassailable logic!

[NotThisTime]

10. They're more logical and reasoned IMHO, able to think clearly through the sound bites

[doyourealize1]

12. oh give me a break

Quit condescending to the lower classes...

Simply put, educated voters and upper class are less likely to feel threatened by the racist impulses which go along with encountering people that aren't alike to them. By that I mean that higher income voters don't feel threatened financially by lower income minority workers taking their jobs. It is an unmistakable and recurring trend in history.

[doyourealize1]

16. also

I don't intend to state that university-level voters all have to be from the upper class. Educated voters tend to be more open. But they shouldn't be putting themselves up on pedestals. They are no more or less rational than a non-university educated voter.

I don't think you're giving enough credit to informed lower and "uneducated" voters.

[reggie the dog]

101. I do not rule out that non college educated people

can be worldly and open minded. It just helps you become open minded when you leave your home town to go to the university and you realize how much you have in common with groups of people you had never come into contact with before.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Listen.....

I've heard enough about Obama's "problem" with LIVs and "Hard working" uneducated White Voters.

If I want to start a positive thread about a demographic group that supports Barack Obama, I will.

Do you think that Educated Voters have a firmer grasp on the issues, and have concluded as to whom can best can bring about the best policies for the United States.......apart from your reasons given that they feel less economically threatened and being less racially prejudiced?

[lastliberalintexas]

26. And when you paint with a broad brush which insults a good number of

good Dems just because they may not support your candidate, expect to get called on it. FFS, championing the lower and working classes- you know, the ones who tend to not have a college degree- used to be expected of Dems.

[GCP]

61. Good post!

:thumbsup:

:applause:

[woolldog]

120. how many threads have their been about Obama's white working class problem?

Where were you protesting the "broad generalizations" in those threads?

Hypocrite much?

[lastliberalintexas]

147. Actually, I did post that Obama will do fine with the white folks in the GE

Sue me, I'm a fan of neither. But this thread really isn't about whether I am a fan of Obama, it's the self-congratulatory, egotistical tone of the OP that bothered me. I remember when those uneducated blacks, ignorant rednecks, assorted blue collar workers of various backgrounds, working women and union workers were the backbone of the Dem party. To find a thread on this site with such derision directed at those people bothers me. But what do I know, I'm just a Socialist who is tired of the Dem party ignoring the War on Poverty. :shrug:

[ekwhite]

160. Hear, Hear

I'm tired of the Democratic Party ignoring the war on poverty also. Instead, we have a war on the poor that started with Bill Clinton's plan to "end welfare as we know it," and continued into the Bush administration.

[woolldog]

185. Fine. I stand corrected.

But I think the OP is asking an entirely valid question. You have a group of voters preferring one candidate 2-1. There are good reasons, in addition to plain curiosity, for asking why that is.

[doyourealize1]

30. the question is....

Is this thread more about finding the answer to your question, or is it because you're propping yourself up as an enlightened voter?

And as for the answer to your question, then I say NO. I have a college degree, and I would not say that I know more about the plight of a union / rank and file worker than any Democrat in that social class.

I recently became an Obama supporter, and I am sick of university-educated people believe that they have a "firmer" grasp on "issues".

The best that I can characterize educated voters is that they are neutral. It is offensive to say they have more knowledge about issues that they themselves have little experience. The rank-and-file Democrat has the most firm grasp on the issue. The "educated" voter is neutral but that is about it.

[FrenchieCat]

59. So you believe that Educated voters are "neutral". Is that what you are saying?

because stats disprove your theory. How do you reconcile that? :shrug:

[doyourealize1]

63. you're dealing with semantics now?

By neutrality I mean that "educated" voters can look objectively because they tend to be distant from the issues that Democrats traditionally handle.

How many university educated are actually on welfare? How many are union workers? How many are minimum wage workers who are also single mothers?

My guess it that the majority are not.

[FrenchieCat]

69. I'm dealing with my original OP question.....which was simply looking for an answer

as to why, according to stats, Educated voters are more likely to vote for Barack Obama.


Having a degree does not guarantee one life on easy street, and anyone who thinks that are simply not informed.

Your response that Educated voters are not having a hard time, and are "distant" from the issues that Democrats traditionally handle is pulled out of your ass. I am college Educated and came from practically nothing. Many in my family have been on Welfare, and some are Union. My mother was a single mother. In otherwords, you make no sense and it is you who are broad brushing the experience of those who hold university diplomas. Why are you doing that?

[doyourealize1]

75. If you ask a general question, you're going to receive a general answer

Don't fool yourself into thinking that most university educated people emerge from the lower class and eventually comprise the middle class.

[FrenchieCat]

87. I disagree with you. The majority of Americans want their children

college educated. There are excellent community colleges, and state colleges that graduate thousands each year.

That is part of the American Dream; to aspire that one's children will receive a higher education.

So I don't buy into your theory that "most university educated people" don't emerge from the lower classes.

Do you have something to back your statement up? Some kind of statistic?

[reggie the dog]

103. I don't know how many of us were successful

but I went to the university with MANY MANY working class and poor people at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Lots of poor and working class people go heavily into debt just to study.

[reggie the dog]

102. teachers union

I am a unionized teacher. My sister is a unionized teacher, and my father is a unionized mechanic. Lots of college educated Democrats are members of unions.

[Scout]

216. many of them are voting for Obama 'cuz he's the "cool" candidate,

and they want to be cool, too!

:rofl:

[ekwhite]

159. Low information voters just aren't paying attention

They are only getting snippets of the controversy from the nightly news. They aren't likely to live in areas with broadband internet. They can't afford it, even if it is available. A lot of them are more threatened by competition from illegal immigrants and are in competition with other members of the working class.

The construction worker who hates illegal immigrants hates them because they have seen their jobs taken by non-union illegals hired for a fraction of their wages. Of course, the person who hired them as scab labor is at fault, but it is easier to identify the brown-skinned people who don't speak English as the problem. Getting rid of the competition is in their economic interest.

We can make inroads with working-class voters by addressing their real concerns. We need to propose realistic, fair plans to address the problem of illegal immigration. We need to bring manufacturing jobs BACK to the US.

[mcctatas]

35. Quit condescending to the educated....

News flash, not all educated voters are higher income voters. Conversely, not all of those in the "lower classes" ( :puke: BTW) feel threatened by lower income minorites. This is exactly the kind of nonsense that Obama is trying to change. It's not elitist, it's just access to information and the time to process it...

[doyourealize1]

43. look at my other posts

and fyi I will be receiving my PHD in the near future.

[reggie the dog]

104. have you or people you know

come into contact with racial/ethnic groups of people at the university, and have you been expected to do group work with them? For people growing up in "all white" or "all black" neighborhoods and high schools this kind of experience can be life changing. If you were lucky enough to have lived in one of the few truly integrated areas of the USA this may be no big deal, but for many of us it is.

[mcctatas]

171. Congratulations...

then you probably know what I am talking about, poverty does not mean uneducated, this whole issue is more complex than people realize...

[Cha]

130. That's right..good example

here. HIgh information voter ..lower tax bracket.

[backscatter712]

51. In college, you're exposed to people of different ethnicities.

I'm thinking that's an experience that a high-school educated coal miner or factory worker doesn't have.

When I went to college, I met people from around the world, of every race, every ethnicity. I met people who were openly gay, I met people with disabilities, I met people who spoke English as a second language, and had who knows how many first languages. You study with them, hang with them, drink with them, argue with them, discuss philosophy and politics with them.

And when you've had that experience, you no longer have the fear you might once have had of people who are different.

I guess that makes it hard to empathize with the sterotypical LIV who didn't have those experiences, and reacts to Obama by saying "I ain't votin' for that n****r!" :banghead:

[reggie the dog]

99. plenty of us have high education

and low or mid income. I have a Master's degree and I am making 25 thousand us dollars a year after tax, clearly I am not part of the higher income bracket. Yet I still support Obama....

[Hippo_Tron]

186. So your argument amounts to: "OH MY GOD ALL THE COLOREDS ARE TAKING OUR JOBS"

I think you're the one who is being condescending to working class people.

[Clark2008]

210. You can be of lower class and still be quite educated.

There are many people with multiple degrees who are struggling because they can't find work or a job that matches with their education.

Let's be honest about this.

[NaturalHigh]

13. Well, I have a Bachelors degree, and my wife has a Masters.

I don't like Obama, and my wife has said that she absolutely won't vote for him. That's not uncommon where I live, even among people with college degrees. I have yet to hear a single colleague of mine say that he or she will vote for Obama.

Frankly, I think the "educated voters love Obama" meme is an overdone myth. It might be true in a small majority of cases, but it is a long way from being universal.

[FrenchieCat]

23. Where do you live?

Of course, all "Memes" are overdone. Statistically though, it is a "meme" that holds true.

I don't believe all "trends" either. Just like the one that says that "Hard Working" Whites won't vote for Barack Obama....... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6133070

But then you're smart and you knew that.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. Oklahoma according to his bio. nt

[woolldog]

144. no comment.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uponit7771]

65. The Low Information Voters USUALLY never give a reason they're don't like Obama other than

...some asthetic aspect of his person.

His ideals etc are usually never mentioned.

[Alexander]

208. Exactly. They go for things like "snob", "arrogant", "elitist", and "sexist".

Quite a difference from the Democrats who don't support Hillary, typically over issues like NAFTA, the IWR, Kyl-Lieberman, the gas tax pandering, the 2001 MBNA bill, and so forth.

When they hate Obama, it's always vague personality attacks, not anything of substance. And frankly a lot of these adjectives are not that far off from "uppity".

[QueenOfCalifornia]

14. Because

we are bitter latte' drinking appeasers?

:shrug:


:rofl:

[PurityOfEssence]

15. Because they're infinitely superior to the rest of us dolts

What's perplexing about their brilliance is that it doesn't point out to them that being of a select and exalted group also crimps the ability to garner a MAJORITY.

Threads like these are very dangerous: if it's gotten into the common consciousness that Obama supporters consider themselves better than others, the whole enterprise is over. America hates intellectuals and always has.

Education proves nothing about intelligence except that the degree holder isn't blatantly stupid and had the patience to go through the program to the end. Often, the mediocre wave their credentials to disprove their nagging fear of commonness.

[Swamp Rat]

20. This mediocre commoner agrees with you.

[FrenchieCat]

25. This thread is no more dangerous than the many, many threads

that I have read here about how Whites won't vote for Barack Obama, or that Blacks only vote for Barack Obama.

You've got your fucking nerves telling me what's dangerous! See Hillary Clinton's remark about an assassination in order to make who knows what point.

Good to hear that you don't equate Education with intelligence. I equate Education equating being informed when voting.

[PurityOfEssence]

52. Really? Did I write any of those threads?

Some people disagree with you. That doesn't mean that any single person who disagrees with you approves of the worst of those who also impede your crusade.

Granting oneself a dispensation from any rules of civility because someone else has wronged one is a form of selfishness: it demands others to comport themselves in ways one is above. That's privilege, and it's anti-pluralist.

The raging fury against anyone who disagrees is bad enough, but to tar all others with the worst of the opposition's statements is not just shrill and inaccurate, it's dishonest and abusive.

I don't hold you accountable for posts made by others; by what mechanism of your exalted rational abilities do you grant yourself the right to do so to others as you please?

[FrenchieCat]

58. You disagree with me about what exactly. Read my op again.

I am stating a statistical fact based on election results to date, and asking why that is that the Educated tend to support Barack Obama. You post all defensively as though there is an insult in there somewhere, although threads about who won't vote for Barack are common occurences by Clinton supporters.

Raging fury is relative. You should check with yourself on that. I'm not sure what "raging fury" I have exhibited here or elsewhere, to tell the truth. Can you provide some examples of my "Rage"?

You are the one sounding agitated and offended, not me.


It is not the Obama campaign who has stereotyped who votes for whom; that has been largely done by the Hillary Clinton campaign; the candidate that you support.

[PurityOfEssence]

139. Post 25: raging fury

Complete with exclamation point.

Just answering, as you demanded.

[FrenchieCat]

155. I was calm as a cucumber when I typed that.....

and still am.

Now, this is you ---->

:rofl:

[Rocky2007]

181. Hmmmmmmmmmm

Is your name Hillary by chance?

[FrenchieCat]

125. When did this become about you?

It certainly isn't about me.

[QC]

62. You rock!

:toast:

[GCP]

68. BRILLIANT POST

I am so sick of hearing how educated Obama's fans are compared to the rest of us dolts who don't buy into the hype.
He's an OK candidate, period.
And BTW, Ms Frenchiecat, I have two bachelors degrees, and I still think HRC is the better candidate.
I won't vote for McCain, and I will vote for Obama if that's the choice, but I don't have to listen to this self-congratulatory twaddle about how intelligent you all are for worshipping at the feet of the Second Coming - BHO.

[FrenchieCat]

77. I did not say "All" educated voters.....and I did not make the stats up

as to the fact that educated voters are more likely to vote for Barack Obama.

I am sick of hearing how "hard working" American White voters prefer Hillary Clinton, and that is what we have heard about in this campaign, even if you don't want to admit it.

So you having two degrees does not answer my question, because my statement never stated that it was "all" or "none".

I'm not sure why this is op is being labeled as self Congratulatory "Twaddle" because I equate education with being more informed, but not necessarily with Intelligence. My mother didn't graduate from High School, and she supports Barack Obama.

I'm not sure why my Op offends you, but it appears that it does. Maybe this just makes it easier for some to understand why the Hillary Meme (that she herself highlighted) that Obama has a "problem" with hard working Whites may offend as well, hey? After all, Obama never said that Hillary was having a problem attracting educated voters, did he?

[Rocky2007]

184. SweetieCat------

Something that is missing in this mix is that little thing called "common horse sense" and that is not taught at university -- no degree makes up for that.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

161. spot on!

[kiranon]

17. Pol Pot (Cambodia) and followers came from the educated classes

It would be wonderful if education made its recipients immune from dictatorships or falling for a cult or a movement that ended up in fascism of one kind or another. It doesn't. It takes a caring heart to fend off evil. And a caring person can be a democrat or a republican or a libertarian or whatever. Education alone will not make for a good person or a person able to withstand the onslaught of a really good propaganda campaign that speaks to the hole in their heart. Belief in the constitutional process more than in any one candidate will help to make sure that propaganda and flash or deception does not triumph.

[siligut]

74. I agree.

To be able to see the whole picture, this is the key. I like so much of what you have said. I only want to express my appreciation for your sanity in the environment in which we are currently enveloped.

Higher education, the discipline that it takes and the belief in oneself that it instills, does help one to view the world impartially. Some less educated individuals allow authority figures to make their decisions for them; authority figures count on this, and because it is so obvious it is often overlooked.

[NorthernSpy]

89. actually, Pol Pot was a mediocre student who nursed a bitter spite at intellectuals...

He had educated Cambodians killed by the thousands, and the movement that he lead was avowedly anti-intellectual.

Just wearing eyeglasses made a person deeply suspect and liable to be shot. The reasoning was that nearsightedness is uncommon among the illiterate.


And to think that we, the US, objected when the Vietnamese intervened in the Cambodian genocide and drove Pol Pot from power in 1979!

[kiranon]

117. He studied in France about Western ideas and applied them

as he understood them. I do not know what his grades were but he was of the intelligentsia. Of course, he got rid of those who disagreed with him along with many others. It was a killing field. If you study the early leadership of many authoritarian/totalitarian movements in the 20th century, the leaders were from the intelligentsia. They may later be replaced by those of less intelligence and more cunning but educated people can be just as lethal as they can be kind. I lived in Germany in the early 60's and met many professional people, even writers of poetry, environmentalists and professors of history, who had been and still were Nazis. I was only 19 at the time. I never forgot the lesson that those who appear educated and cultured can not only harbor the most horrible of ideas but had carried them out and had no sense of guilt for having done so and would do so again.

[lastliberalintexas]

19. Not buying it

My grandmother barely finished high school because back then her family preferred her quitting to get married, yet she is extremely politically astute. She's also a Clinton supporter, though she'll vote for Obama when the time comes.

If you think that a college diploma means intellligence, then you've never met some of the "professionals" I have. Also, btw, in the general elections of recent times, college grads actually favored the republicans. Guess they ain't so intelligent after all.

I hate this BS divide. Better to discuss actual issues rather than trying to come up with yet another way to insult the "uneducated" masses.

[FrenchieCat]

28. BS divide is all that I have read about in the press.

For you to all of the sudden consider Educated voters in the majority voting for Barack Obama to be divisive is ridiculous.

College Diploma means something, or are you inspiring your children (if you have any) not to pursue a college education? And if you are, why are you?

[lastliberalintexas]

40. A college diploma means something in the job market only

True knowledge can be garnered anywhere, though. Indeed, probably the smartest person I ever knew did not even finish high school. A piece of paper is no real indicator of intelligence, or awareness, or higher thought. AT ALL.


I have posted that Obama would do fine with white voters in the fall and said that divide was just as idiotic. I just happen to be an equal opportunity candidate basher, so sue me. :)

[Rocky2007]

187. College Diploma means something -- oh my

Yes it means something --- you have paid a bunch of money to someone/something but that doesn't add up to superior intelligence.

Look at George -- he is dumber than a rock. So much for Yale.

[FlaGranny]

39. My mom made

it through 7th grade. My dad "graduated" 8th grade. Then they both went to work to help support their families. My mom never got to know Obama. She died 6 years ago at 94 years old, my dad sometime before that. I know in my heart my mother would have been a Obama "girl." He is just her type. She was fierce in her politics. I miss her. She used to watch C-span and I often heard her yell "ASSHOLE" at a republican who was speaking. I grew up with a picture of FDR hanging on the wall. In the 60s she added photos of JFK and RFK. Yep, she would have been an Obama girl - no doubt. My dad was a Democrat through and through too.

[Radical Activist]

21. They don't vote based on name recognition.

Someone who doesn't have the time to follow political news often is more likely to vote for a familiar name.

[NC_Nurse]

22. Because he is intelligent and doesn't talk down to people.

Being pandered to is patronizing. When people try to agitate with "faux outrage" that is also patronizing.

They EXPECT you to fall for it. Insulting.

People who are low information voters are that way for a reason - not because they are dumb, but because
they don't have the time and the access to research the issues. They are easy prey to sound bites and distortions.

A lot of people don't have internet access or even a decent local newspaper in their area. TV news is spotty at best.

[lastliberalintexas]

24. Yep, him saying that he trusted me to make a "prayerful decision"

about abortion was in no way, shape or form condescending. Not AT ALL.


Oops, I meant to say that it in no way meant he was talking down to me. I guess since I am not an Obama supporter I shouldn't even know the meaning of a word as complex as condescending.

[Alcibiades]

34. I don't think that's condescending

I think it's a cynical, triangulated effort to reach out to the fundies with one hand while reaching out to pro-choice voters with the other.

[lastliberalintexas]

44. I was trying to be a litte nice

But I do agree with your assessment, though I still say it was also condescending. There, there little lady, I *trust* you'll make the right decision after you deign to converse with that MAN in the sky- whether you agree that he exists or not.

The religiosity of his campaign was the first thing to drive me away.

[Alcibiades]

188. He didn't say who you had to pray to

Or even whether you agree it is a man, woman or thing: man, woman, ancient thing slumbering in R'leh, Allah. And I am sure that there are some who would say that he's using "prayerful" in a secular way, here.

Bill Clinton himself said something similarly triangulated with his "safe, legal and rare" line. I actually support Obama now, with Edwards out of the race. Of course, if I limited myself to candidates as secular as I am, there would be almost no one for whom to vote. All politicians all must do the kabuki dance of Christian piety, without regard to their actual beliefs. I prefer to think it's cynical, rather than sincere, because I'd certainly use religion in this way if I were running for office.

[NC_Nurse]

116. I wasn't thrilled with that statement either, not being a Christian and all...

But they ALL have to speak about their "faith" because of the religious vote in our country.

I doubt most women decide on an abortion without ANY reflection. JMHO.

[ekwhite]

It also could be that he is truly religious

and is couching it in his terms. Making a 'prayerful' decision about something hopefully means thinking seriously about it - meditating or contemplating on it, if you prefer.

[lastliberalintexas]

168. Or maybe that he was pandering to the 700 Club audience?

Nah, it couldn't be that he's just another politician.


And I don't really give a flying fig if he is truly religious, I am not. He can take his religion and apply it to his own life, but he needs to respect that others hold different views. At least NC Nurse agrees that the comment was offensive to non-believers.

[ekwhite]

192. Just as a reference I am not a Christian

I am a Buddhist, and I did not find his comments as offensive as you did. He is a member of the dominant religion in this country, and prayer is just as common in Judaism and Islam.

I am willing to give anyone who professes a religion or an ethical frame the benefit of a doubt. Just because you are not religious doesn't mean that no one gets to mention religion around you. Climb down from your high horse.

[ebdarcy]

27. Please, don't.

My mother barely finished high school, and she is a big Obama fan. My sister, who didn't finish high school but got her GED, is a very enthusiastic Obama supporter. In fact, my sister was an Obama supporter before I was. And I'm the "educated" one.

I think any type of exit polling data can be cherry picked to give the desired results. Just because there is a correlation, doesn't mean there is a cause.

[FrenchieCat]

37. That is not the question that I am asking........

I have qualified my conversation by discussing an established stat. I am not saying that "all" educated voters vote for Obama, or that all educated voters don't vote for Clinton.

and I am not even equating education with intelligence per se, although a few posters have made that connection, whereas I have not.

But I believe that this is a fair discussion to have, considering the discussions that the media has attempted to push concerning who might NOT vote for Barack Obama.

[FlaGranny]

47. I agree with others that

being educated exposes you to many different people. When you know people from other places and of different colors and nationalities, prejudices have a way of melting away. Young people also like Obama as most young people are more open minded than their elders who are more set in their ways.

[doyourealize1]

53. Clinton voters

She's a safe pick. She's a known quantity. A reliable champion and not an unknown purveyor of change believe it or not can be a good thing to some people.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

162. wrong spot

[cliffordu]

31. Cause we're smartest!!

[mcctatas]

41. You forgot...the most...

"Because we're the MOST smartest" ;)

[DCofVA]

32. Because Fox News and Rush Limbaugh are not their only "news" source

[varelse]

36. Do his Superiour College Educated Supporters have enough votes to elect him without our help?

I think not. This kind of elitist tone is best kept behind closed doors, in private conversations with your presumed peers, where it is less likely to leak out and poison the majority of the electorate against your candidate. Better yet... why not ask yourselves how you can bring the majority of voters on board, and get them to the polls in November, instead of wasting time publically lauding yourselves for your superiour intellectual achievements?

I don't think you're helping Obama here - quite the opposite in fact.

[FrenchieCat]

48. Who equated "Superiority" with Education other than yourself?

and why are you doing' that?

What is elitist about being Educated?.. I believe that most parents in these United States want their children to get a good education? Don't you?

I'm not quite sure why this topic of Educated voters is supposed to be "taboo"....this conversation that I am trying to have.

There has been plenty of conversation about the voters that Obama is supposed to have "problems" with everywhere for months, now. So why can't we discuss the category of Voters that do support Obama. I'm curious as to why Educated voters are not seen as positive, but LIVs appear to have been given a coveted standing in these Democratic primaries.

[Rocky2007]

191. OK

You really need to look at what you have been writing. Does elitist come to mind? Being educated does not, by default, make you intelligent.

[FrenchieCat]

200. Nope....elitist doesn't come to mind.

Everyone wants their children to get the best education possible. I don't believe that everyone wants their children to be elitists.

In addition, Intelligence does not necessarily equate to being educated......I have said that in several of my posts in this thread.

[nichomachus]

54. Oooh -- the "pretend you're dumb so you don't offend us" argument

Isn't that what they used to tell young women they needed to do to attract men?

[varelse]

97. The truth is, Obama already has the nomination

He's already focused on the Presidential campaign, and that is where his supporters need to be looking. Threads like this one will not help him win the election in November - he needs us all to back him, not just the moneyed and educated elite. If you want to help him with that, I'd suggest following his lead, because he and his wife are setting an excellent example.

Oh, btw... I am a woman, and in spite of my lack of a college degree, I'm also an Obama supporter. I've never played dumb in my life, nor have I ever noticed anyone hinting that I should do so just because I'm a female. Just sayin.

[Tom Rinaldo]

38. There are other possible explanations

I will always defend the intellect and inherent capacity to understand the world that people lacking advanced degrees possess. Always. I never have and never will simply equate education with wisdom.

I think the entire Barack Obama is an elitist meme is total utter bullshit crap, but in this campaign it is Barack Obama who has projected much more of a polished intellectual appeal than has Hillary Clinton. She has gone more for an in your face gritty persona. People sometimes respond to a style and image that feels more natural and aligned with their own. Again, most objective observers agree that there is little real difference between the Obama and Clinton platform on the issues.

I know wealthy Republicans who agree with McCain more on the issues than Obama, but they really like Obama's style and approach and think it would be healthy for America to embrace a leader like Obama right now. Where do you fit that into the equation?

[cbc5g]

42. Easy - He appeals to their intellect and their emotions

Bush/McCain only appeal to emotion/hate/fear

[Liberty Belle]

45. Educated voters VALUE education. Republicans don't.

The GOP continuously underfunds schools and cuts budgets in all the wrong places.

Case in point: Governor Schwarzenegger's latest round of budget cuts has forced California State Universities to deny admission to community college students who met all the requirements for so-called automatic transfer.

Republicans see paying taxes as wrong. Educated voters see paying more so our kids can get educated as an investment in our futures.

[Big Blue Marble]

46. Another factor is they are less likely to be influenced by

the inanities and insanities of the MSM. They are more likely to think for themselves.

[cbc5g]

49. The OP says "MORE LIKELY" not "ALL OF THEM"

So quit with the bullshit "My sister is educated and she doesn't like him so YOU'RE WRONG". The OP is right and exit polling proves it. So why are they more likely to vote for Obama? Because they understand whats at stake.

[JohnnyLib2]

50. I will assume that you mean vote for Obama in the GE, as our potential nominee.

Otherwise, you have offended my highly educated .... self. :banghead:

[FrenchieCat]

66. How have I offended anyone by merely referring to a verifiable stat?

More likely means more likely, and that is why I included such in my header of the OP.

Please explain are you are offended by the stats I cite.

Thank you.

[JohnnyLib2]

94. No argument with the statistics, no offense for that matter.

As to the "why," I think immersion in technology plays a role in current education (all levels) and that the Obama campaign anticipated that and uses it well. Quick access to varieties of information, unprecedented,
is a big part of college work now and, very often, of the work places and life style of college graduates.

The great unknown, IMO, is the role of peer influence (via technology) and of what is sometimes called the "American Idol" nature of this primary election.

:shrug:

[dana_b]

55. because their critical thinking skills are more developed

and their logical training is used more often. That does NOT mean that all Clinton supporters are illogical or uneducated. There are also people within the Obama camp who couldn't tell you why they are voting for him except that they want "change". However you asked why the majority of educated voters go to Obama, and that's my answer.

[AllentownJake]

56. Free time

The more educated you are the more you are likely to have free time and all the trappings that come with it. In that free time you are able to educate yourself more about candidates.

I don't think people without college degrees are stupider or lesser but they have less free time than most of us do.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. 'Cuz them eggheads ain't got no common sense.

They's jist suckin' down Lattes and and tryin' to grab we'un's guns.

[LWolf]

60. I guess my college education doesn't count.

I'm not likely to vote for Obama.

I like to deal with facts, and the facts I'm looking at don't favor him.

The biggest fact is this: I disagree with him on just about every policy he's stated.

[uponit7771]

67. Then you wouldn't be voting for Hillary either, she agrees they share 95% of their policy. This is a

...meme of those who take advantage of Low Information Voters; you guys WONT pay attention or can't pay attention because of life gots you so busy.

[lastliberalintexas]

73. LOL, LWolf not pay attention to policy?

And if you knew her posting history at all, you'd know she's said she's not voting for Clinton, either, because both Clinton and Obama are centrist/moderate candidates still owned by corporate america. Never mind that Obama's supporters try to pretend otherwise.

I don't like Clinton, but damn if her supporters mostly at least acknowledge her for what she is, unlike most Obama supporters.

[LWolf]

78. Who the fuck is "you guys?"

You are correct about HRC, of course. Something I've pointed out, repeatedly, since this primary season began. It's amazing to me the amount of hate generated between the supporters of these two, when they really aren't much different.

[FrenchieCat]

84. This thread is not about you personally....it is about certain voting trends

that may or may not include you.

My op states "More likely" not "will only vote for".

It is too bad that many folks claiming to be educated haven't really bothered to read my OP and what it was asking. It is in fact Ironic.

[LWolf]

88. I read the whole thing. n/t

[uponit7771]

64. My cousin and I were just talking about this very subject, people who aren't low Information Voters

...tend to be more aware of what's happening around them and less afraid and trusting of their ability to think.

[MadMaddie]

70. For many of the reasons that other have noted here I will not

repeat what has been noted.

I do think that there are many voters who never had the opportunity to receive a formal college education and they are some of the most educated and informed voters. We have to be careful about lumping everyone into one category.

Many of us here have been blessed to receive a college education, and with receiving that education I think we are obligated to analyze and evaluate how we reach out to those communities and tell them who our candidate is and why he is the one to help our country.

[wellstone dem]

71. The more educated someone is, the less likely they will need

to work two or even three jobs to make it in todays world.

BTW one of the most astute political thinkers I knew was my uncle who never went beyond third grade, and who worked road construction his whole life. He was so proud of his democratic North Dakota senators.

[doyourealize1]

72. this responses to thread are precisely why people criticize O. voters for being elitist

Educated voters are largely disconnected from the base. And more often than not I see people here shitting on the base, as well.

[FrenchieCat]

80. It is Hillary who stated that she doesn't agree with the base of our party....with activists....

It is Hillary Clinton who states that Hard Working White Americans have a problem voting for Obama.

Barack Obama has never made a statement in reference the fact that the Educated tend to vote for him.

Educated voters are not largely disconnected from the base, they are a big part of the base. Doh.

Reagan Democrats are not the Democratic base......

Hard Working uneducated Whites tend to vote for Republicans, if you didn't know.

[Medusa]

76. You can be well-educated without being an elitist.

Is it Obama's fault his voters are more intelligent and better-educated? I think we're just better able to cut through the BS and lies and manipulations of HRC's campaign.

[starroute]

79. It's a matter of who people think they'd feel comfortable with

We may laugh at the George Bush standard of who'd you feel comfortable having a beer with. But we all do it on some level -- if you were at a party with this candidate, would you be enjoying the same food and drink, talking about the same issues of the day, drawing on the same knowledge base?

Calling Obama and his supporters "elitists" is an insidious term, because it brings up images of the real elitists, the super-wealthy lording it over the rest of us and thinking up better methods of exploitation. But rejecting the "elitist" framing doesn't mean there isn't a very real class divide.

On one side are people who might vaguely be called "intellectuals." They may have college degrees or may be largely self-educated, but one way or another they've acquired a broader sphere of interests, more sophisticated tastes in food or music or movies, and a tendency to factor other cultures and other historical periods into their understanding of the world.

On the other side are people who, whatever their income or education, just aren't aware of or interested in much outside their own lives, their families and friends, and perhaps the local sports teams. Things they don't encounter in their everyday experience just aren't very real to them -- and that includes everything from global warming to the fate of Iraqi children. They're comfortable with whatever is familiar and made nervous by things and people they don't understand.

Obama is the natural candidate of the "intellectual" wing of the Democratic Party. He's got in spades that same special mix of brains and sexuality that still gets elderly Democratic ladies swooning at the memory of Adlai Stevenson. But it's exactly that aura which is going to make a lot of blue-collar Democrats think he believes he's above them.

This clash of cultures isn't anything which can be changed or explained away. It's simply a fact that has to be dealt with. Unfortunately, at this point it's even more unmentionable as an issue than racism, so it may be a while before it gets addressed honestly.

Luckily, feeling that a candidate is somebody you might hang out with isn't the final determination of a vote -- which is why pollsters ask voters which candidates they think care about the issues which are important to them. Hopefully this election will be decided on that basis and not on who can best ape the mannerisms of the guns-and-pickups set.

But there is still something going on here which has been and will continue to be a serious issue unless we can come to terms with it.

[polichick]

81. imo because they do their political homework and are less fear-based.

[Zavulon]

82. Educated voters aren't as likely to be snowed by fake tears, fake beer-swilling,

newfound love of the Yankees, ducking of sniper fire, backtracking on bad answers regarding licenses for illegals, etc.

Hillary's bullshit is best used on the ignorant. People who know which way is up aren't likely to fall for her horseshit.

Only a complete fucking dumbass, for instance, could believe that her RFK assassination comment was the result of the Kennedys being on her mind lately because of Ted's brain cancer.

[goletian]

83. smart people just know better most of the time. its simple.

its a lot harder to bs someone who knows whats going on.

[lastliberalintexas]

86. So are you a centrist?

After all, you apparently could see through the BS of the one true liberal and one moderately liberal candidate we had this year in order to align yourself with one of the centrists.

If not, how did you end up supporting a centrist candidate? Does that mean you didn't see through the BS after all?




The condescending tripe and self-aggrandizing in this thread are amazing.

[FrenchieCat]

92. You come to a lot of conclusion without backing them up other than with your opinion.

Who is the "true" liberal and who is the "centrist" and what is it that allows you to label them as such?

The fact that you want to disparage this thread and the responses doesn't make you right....especially since you offer no real actual reasoning to back up your pronounced determination.

[susankh4]

108. The implication that the "educated" know what is best for the rest of us...

is ludicrous. No Democrat should make that argument with a straight face.

:think:

[FrenchieCat]

122. That is not the "implication". Hillary would like to have us believe

that voting the way that the LIV vote is what is best for us in order to win. Only she, out of the candidates, has made that argument....which is why she calls herself most electable.

I'd rather go with the candidate that doesn't tell me anything other than we are the ones that we have been waiting for.......as opposed to the candidate telling me I want to go back to another time and since everyone knows her husband, I should just get on that bandwagon.

[susankh4]

209. I used to be an egghead

Til I saw how easily they were muzzled and led.

Now I cast my lot with the working folk.

[lastliberalintexas]

153. The derision and ego of the OP deserved nothing more

Kucinich was the liberal, Obama and Clinton are both moderate to centrist.

I make no assertions in my posts other than that the people of whom you are so dismissive were at one time the heart of the Dem party- poor, uneducated blacks and whites of the South, rednecks, blue collar workers, union members, working women. It's amazing to me that Obama supporters claim to be so anti-DLC, while at the same time adopting the dare I say it elitist bent of that organization. It was the DLC who first promoted moderate to conservative economic policies in order to break away from the unions and be seen as more business friendly, less blue collar worker influence. That's the same tone you've promoted with this thread, even if unintentionally. You are being condescending, demeaning, and derisive of people who often are in the positions they are because of circumstance, not necessarily intelligence. Dems used to champion those folks, but you'd never know it from this thread.

[goletian]

152. no, im a liberal.

[DevonRex]

85. We're smarter. nt

[Thrill]

90. Educated voters are more likely to look past the stupid Rev. Wright

garbage. To see the bigger picture. They are more likely to look past the fact that Obama is only half white. For the bigger picture.

I bet you're likely to see that the educated voters voted for Gore and Kerry over Bush. The Democrats who voted for Bush are likely the uneducated ones.

[susankh4]

91. Bwahahahaaa.....

:rofl:

:popcorn:

[FrenchieCat]

93. Could you educate us in reference to your reaction here?

and a bit late with the popcorn, doncha think?

Breakdown on education shows that a larger percentage of those who are educated vote for Democrats in a General Election.
http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=945

[Vinca]

95. I was wondering the other day why the people with less education

and, apparently, less interest in politics, wouldn't look to people who know a little more and pay attention to things for a hint about who to support? I hate to admit it, but before I started really paying attention, I would judge a candidate on solely superficial bullshit. If I was like that now, I'd be a Hillary supporter for sure.

[Duder]

96. One other factor might be the youth vote...

The war has probably stimulated students on campus to become more active and involved in politics. Today's youth are better informed and through the internet can independently become more aware of the issues than previous generations. This might be why the old-style politics of labeling and pandering used by Clinton and McCain aren't as influential as in the past. While some are dismissive of the youth vote and the focus has been on race and gender, statistically, the youth vote has been on the increase. This bodes well for Barack and the future, imo.

[Liberal Veteran]

98. Actually, I've noted that the more in tune with current events and the political landscape...

....the more likely one is to vote for Obama.

That's probably why dailykos, most of our liberal radio hosts, and the people who frequent DU lean heavily toward Obama.

[CreekDog]

100. education doesn't equal more money

ask the average English major. :think:

the "educated" and "hard working" contain many of the same people.

and when i went to school, i don't recall getting paid for the time i had to spend off work to complete school. most of my friends who didn't go to school were making more money while i was in school, working, for well, no pay.

this is a stupid argument to be having on a progressive board, thank you Hillary Clinton for trying to drive a wedge between voters with degrees and those without. :eyes:

[doyourealize1]

105. i beg to differ

"The connection between higher education and higher earning is not surprising given that college graduates earn an average of nearly $2.1 million in their lifetimes, almost twice as much as those with only a high school diploma."

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/elearning/?article=educatedcities

[CreekDog]

106. differ with what?

there was lots in my post.

[quaker bill]

107. Big words are not a threat

Secondly, educated voters have seen past the zero sum game played by republicans and other xenophobes.

To put it bluntly, I have mine, I earned it on my own merits, and I am no longer in competition.

The old politics of pitting one interest group against another does not work for these folks, because they are largely self-sustaining and not at risk. In short, they have seen that the whole concept is utter bull s**t, in a personal way.

They have gotten to know that favoring one group over another is just a means to manipulate and not a path to progress. They know that short term, easy fixes, are a bandaid, not progress.

[BigBluenoser]

109. As someone who has taught college students for years...

I know many of them graduate while being morons.

With grade inflation and the "colleges of last resort" spoon feeding degrees to anyone with a pulse, a college degree is more a sign of class membership than anything else. The attainment of a "generic" undergraduate degree in no way says anything about a persons ability to think and reason.

[QC]

111. That is very true. I have also been teaching college students for years,

and I know credentials have nothing to do with intelligence. Not only have my students taught me that, but also some of my own professors, jackasses with very expensive diplomas.

[kiranon]

118. Thank you.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

165. A bucket full of truth!

[Perry Logan]

110. They're amused by a candidate who thinks there are 57 states.

Or maybe they like dirty politics.

Or maybe they have a repressed desire to see McCain become President.

Might be a liberal guilt thing--very big with academic types.

Next question: why do these well-educated Obamites write like someone who has never read a book?

[FrenchieCat]

124. Maybe so. What I am not amused by is a candidate who attempts to

bring out the worse in us and tell us that we should vote for the candidate that Low Information voters are voting for because that is how we win.

In reference to your personal shot against well-educated Obama supporters, you're just jealous.

[bridgit]

112. There are many college educated folks buying SUV's & Hummers too...

for that matter. "Flipping bums a dime in their prime." Sending their factories overseas; many more so-called educated people eTrading defense, fossil & futures stocks that are contributing to the collapse of this economy for their personal gain.

I understand what you are trying to do. You're working that chasm I thought was closing as of late. And I suppose I applaud your spirit for doing so. But it is neither true, nor a fact that *all* college educated people are voting for or supporting Barack Obama.

And I suspect tacks such as this are part of why Obama hasn't closed with the 16-17mil out there waiting for something other than, "If you don't vote for him, you're dumb. If you don't vote for him, you're a racist."

[FrenchieCat]

201. *All* was not part of my op if you noticed.......

And it is funny that you don't speak of Hillary's statement as to who votes for her and how that makes her more electable. You sounds selective to me.

[bridgit]

202. Absent a qualifier such as 'most', 'many', or 'bunches of' "educated voters" are easily...

construed as *All*, especially when referred to repeatedly & throughout as: "they" "the College Educated voters" "These are the voters who follow (fill in the blank)", etc, naw...

A simple review would have tacked that carpet down all round the edges like the carpetbag it was fashioned from imo, but it's cool. I understand that according to DU Obama supporters, I have no right to my opinion. I think that's a brittle, intransigent stance to maintain but if that's the way you feel then that's the way you feel, still...

Your OP doesn't even have "Hillary" in it. But you want to travel off to all four points of the compass to make what should be a simple point, and then step off the map; that's your business and I say more power to'ya go for it. It is, however, just another example of how far afield Obama supporters drag the party, and the issues we'll be facing in very short order.

[FrenchieCat]

205. Why are Educated Voters more likely to vote for Barack Obama?

More likely is a qualifyer. It means that they are more likely to, even if they might not.

You have a right to your opinion, but not a right to your own facts.

What issues will those be that we will be facing that my one thread somehow should address?

[bridgit]

211. Again, why do you not see it? "Why are Educated Voters" is at the very best far, far too...

nebulous a qualifier. AT BEST! You have lumped them, "Educated Voters" (which you further capitalize as though they are royalty as well voting for Obama :eyes:) all into one brown paper bag that you are clearly more than willing to carry for Barack Obama sight unseen, criminy! You're just arguing to be arguing. And still, all this, without having qualified, nor for that matter quantified theee ed-u-ca-ted vo-ters themselves.

You have alluded that the apples are "more likely" to be in the bag. You haven't said how many, or whether they are red, yellow, green, ripe, Granny Smith, or indeed whether they have worms, bruises, stems, stems w/leaves, bites out of them, if any are bad or rotten (as can be the case when lumping apples into retainers), etc, nothing!! Just...the apples are more likely to be in the bag period not to mention whether their fields of study will further America as a nation, their GPA, or if they ever received certification after having dropped out, or switched majors cause they got it wrong the first time God Forbid. Just: educated voters are more likely in the bag for Barack Obama. Which is not sustainable as flat as that assertion is.

"You have a right to your opinion, but not a right to your own facts." A pearl before a swine I am convinced it was your hope, but then it's all like:

Wow! I guess that's as close as the world will ever get to your admitting that you're wrong when the life's blood of your OP's for months now has been "you're stupid, racist white trash if you don't vote for Barack Obama."

That card has already been played for months on end. My thought was that that should have begun healing along & in due course but not Frenchie. She's here to tear open all hopes & dreams of change & hospice pouring salt into every bloody bruise & slit.

I do I think it is time; correction: it is well past time to end divisive gibberish, dear. Even though; as has been the case all along: if Obama's supporters think this is all about them it is in my further opinion that they will be seen as ultimately mistaken.

[T Monk]

113. they're more educated

[QC]

114. The style of Obama's campaign is more likely to find favor with the middle class.

The emphasis on group identity, personal affirmation, fixing the hole in the soul, etc. is all very self-help, very Oprah, with a touch of megachurch thrown in.

People have to be fairly secure to vote on such a basis.

Blue-collar voters, who are not so secure as the educated middle class, tend not to look to politicians for soul repair and the like. They want to know what that politician will do for them in terms of practical concerns like putting food on the table and paying the rent. Accordingly, fewer vote now, because many have become convinced that no politician is going to do anything for them. That have reason to think this, as we can see when we consider that both surviving candidates are ardent free traders, among their other shortcomings.

In short, it's not an education thing so much as a class thing.

[aaaaaa5a]

115. Why Tap Dance Around The Pink Elephant In The Room?

The more intelligent you are, the more you follow politics, the more you have traveled, and the more you understand political issues, the more likely you are to vote for Obama. Case closed. The math is the math.


We can't be so worried about offending people that we can no longer report the truth. Hillary Clinton's best states all feature demographics that feature old, un-educated, less traveled people. Likewise, many Republican strongholds feature the same voter.


This is the demographic that gave us Newt Gingrich, and George Bush twice! This group gave Hillary here landslide victories in WV and KY. This group's voting habits are destroying the country. But sadly, Politicians (Dems and GOP) who fit thier message to best exploit this voting group usually win elections.

Examples...

the gas tax
don't burn the flag
same sex marriage
fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here
Iraq is responsible for 9-11
trickle down economics
the ten commandments
affirmative action
Obama is a Muslim

This is how they vote. And this is why we get the leadership we do.


Would you trust this voter to determine the next President?

[kiranon]

121. Who is she? What do you know about her? Why dislike her?

Please provide the analysis behind your comment. Is it about more than her age or appearance? Is she part of someone's campaign staff? A relative of yours? How do you know her and how she thinks?

[graycem]

131. She is Nash McCabe

and she is the questioner from the ABC debate, also from a NY Times article, asking why Senator Obama doesn't wear a flag pin. This is an issue for her despite the fact that neither Hillary or McCain wear them either.

Nash McCabe is the voter from Wednesday night's presidential debate who noted that Barack Obama doesn't usually wear a flag pin and asked, "I want to know if you believe in the American flag."

--

She admits that she's more likely to give Clinton the benefit of the doubt while looking for fault in Obama. For example, McCabe says that she once saw Obama on television and noticed that "he turned his back on the flag" before the Pledge of Allegiance ended. That irritated her to no end.

[aaaaaa5a]

138. Before questioning the picture...

Do a google search on the woman. And I think you will understand my point. I try not to post pictures of voters without knowing their political intent. That would be unfair.

[woolldog]

190. how could you not recognize Nash McCabe?

[sakura]

195. It's not that they're old and uneducated...

While it seems that this particular crop of LIVs are defined by being old and ignorant, I don't think being old is the cause of their ignorance. Neither young nor old has a lock on ignorance-- the WV footage I saw had plenty of young, ignorant voters.

As for being uneducated, it's more that they want to stay uneducated that's the problem. There are plenty of people out there who have eighth grade educations who have continued to learn and grow throughout their lives. But, importantly, those people wanted to grow. There are also plenty of people who have stopped growing, and are very happy to continue viewing the world through the same filters they have used for years and years.

I come from a working class, immigrant family. I put myself through school to earn a Ph.D. One of my sisters is a high school dropout, although she did eventually earn her G.E.D. She's not stupid (to the contrary, she's quite intelligent), but she fits the stereotype of the LIV to a tee (apart from age). Her reasons for choosing a particular candidate have little to do with the issues. Seriously, she couldn't bring herself to vote for Kerry, because in her words, he "looks like Herman Munster." (Not that she votes democratic often. Despite the fact that her husband is a union foreman, they both vote republican most of the time.) She's had plenty of opportunity to educate herself, but the sad fact is that she just really doesn't value learning. It's a lot easier to vote for someone based on the fact that he or she is good looking, or put a chicken in the pot, than to sit down and think through the issues. As you pointed out, people who don't think for themselves are extremely easy to exploit.

I agree with you. It's pointless to worry about offending people who are operating on this level. The only way to win their vote will be by pandering, or by appealing to fear or their baser instincts. I don't see doing so as a necessary step in building a winning coalition.

[TexasObserver]

119. Reason One: Educated people don't get their news from emails sent by octogenarians

[kiranon]

123. Warren Buffet can send me investment advice anyday.

[TexasObserver]

134. Did anyone say anything about investment advice?

No. Pay attention. Focus. The topic was people who get their NEWS from old farts who send them emails. Is that you?

[kiranon]

174. What do you have against older folks? It happens to everyone.

I do not judge news worthiness by the age of the newsmaker. Warren Buffet's investment advice is news. News is more than politics. It even includes the weather.

[RNdaSilva]

133. I'm am educated septuagenarian...

I get my info by reading books, paying attention to debates, listening to the candidates, etc., etc.

One of the reasons that I support caucuses, as opposed to primaries, is the fact that they probably attract the more intelligent and because; "They are versed on the issues, and have a tendency to do the adequate research necessary to make informed political decisions" when selecting a candidate.

When I become an octogenarian I doubt that I'll be getting my news via emails sent by fellow octogenarians.

This educated male, white, septuagenarian is supporting Senator Barack Obama. I'm a registered Republican morphing into an Independent...in the cocoon stage.

We septuagenarians (McCain) and octogenarians tend to have lapses of memory, e.g....

Mahalo...

[TexasObserver]

135. I see. You don't get your news by such emails, either, but you're aware of them.

But many people do get their news that way. We know this because they repeat it when asked in interviews, and we know it because they respond to polls which reveal such.

Unfortunately, we have many people who do get their news from an email someone sent them. Why people over 70 love to send such emails is an open question, but we can surmise that they don't like to read newspapers, magazines, or watch TV news as a method of gaining information for elections.

I don't imagine those emails I get from my various relatives over 70. There is an endless supply of them, targeting Obama or Nancy Pelosi.

[RNdaSilva]

145. Yes, aware...

but, I'm addicted to news and the NFL.

Dallas Cowboys :thumbsdown:

Houston Texans :thumbsdown:

Barack Obama :thumbsup:

Sorry 'bout that and take care,

an "elitist" septuagenarian

[TexasObserver]

166. I don't care about the NFL, or the Texas teams in it.

sorry about that

[RNdaSilva]

170. Apology accepted...

[TexasObserver]

182. Ignore activated

[kiranon]

175. Generalize much? What nonsense. Age has nothing to do with it.

[TexasObserver]

183. Age has everything to do with it.

Older people tend to support Hillary and they tend to believe the idiocies other old people send them as emails. That's why they still believe Obama is a Muslim.

[Rocky2007]

193. Not this 71 year old

If anything, I'm the one sending the e-mails. But then I'm not your average old fart -- Obama will be getting my vote even if he is a muslim :rofl:
Yes, I know, rolling on the floor laughing :dem:

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

206. O Rly?

You stated that emails from other old folks is Reason One they get their news, which sounds like it is the most important or relevant one. More than TV, newspapers and radio? Seriously?

And then you put someone on ignore for very politely disagreeing with you, someone who is not a supporter of the enemy candidate? Weird.

[End Of The Road]

126. I'm wondering if it's parallel to the age phenomenon

And directly related to it? This is off the top of my head, so I could be very wrong, but...

You used to be able to get a good job, have a great future, with a bachelor's degree.

Now, to get ahead of all those people with bachelor's degrees, you've got to go for a Master's, a PhD, etc.

Shoot, my father did GREAT with two years of engineering at Duke, prior to having to enter the military in WWII. He got further training in the navy in electronics, then had many opportunities open for him after the war. (Of course, he was a republican...)

I'm in my early fifties, and I've been passed over for some jobs for which I'm fully qualified based on experience, because I don't have a grad degree in that field (though I DO have a grad degree).

So, does the younger demographic, in toto, have more advanced degrees that the older demographic?

Like I said, I dunno... I'm just a-wonderin'.

[Elspeth]

127. There are plenty of college educated women and women with PhDs who vote Hillary Clinton

I know a good many of them.

[salguine]

129. The question isn't why educated voters prefer Obama...

It's why ig'nant ones prefer Clinton.

[FrenchieCat]

137. Cause they've seen her name before somewheres?

and they believe the lies she tells? :shrug:

[styersc]

156. Every blue collar worker, particularly like my parents who worked

hard to put me through my undergraduate degree should read this post and every single response before they cast a vote in November.

Voters not only vote for the candidate, but for the people who will gain political power and influence with the candiates' victory.

Every man and woman who has gained their "education" from hard work, life experience, calouses and raising families should be exposed to the barely masked hatred and condescension of the people who will gain political power if they choose to pull a lever for Obama.

This thread alone should be responsible for a movement called "Traditional Democrats for McCain". I agree with practically none of McCain's stated policies but I know a President McCain might give my policies an audience without looking down his nose at me. This thread convinces me that President Obama might not extend the same courtesy.

Despite a Master's degree, it turns out I have a lot more in common with the out of work steel workers that Obama once worked to help then I do with the elitists who are now eager to see him elected president.

[FrenchieCat]

179. If Dem folks will vote for an Anti-Choice NeoCon due to reading this thrread, I don't believe that

anything could help them.

As a foreign born immigrant who came to this country partly due to educational opportunity, you don't know who has worked "hard" for their education and who hasn't. My mother worked hard to put me through school, and she supports Barack Obama.

See that's the funny thing about all of this, Hillary supporters take humbrage to the fact that Educated voters tend to vote for Obama, and so you have decided to use this thread as your excuse to call that snobery.

Guess that just as much, you must believe that Hillary Clinton's "hard working Whites" voters vote for her because they are racists then...since the logic follows.

[styersc]

132. Nope. No elitism here.

[Willo]

136. They are used to doing their own research

and having to justify their agreements or disagreements.

In a sense, Obama supports are like investigators on a case, while Hillary supporters are like couch potatoes with a remote.

[Oak2004]

141. Because "education" here is a stand-in for well-informed

It's easy for a pollster to ask how many years of education a respondent has. It is much much harder for a pollster to determine how well informed a respondent is.

The better informed you are the less likely you are to vote on the basis of name recognition and societal biases. And while I think formal education does a very inefficient job of informing its students, it certainly does a better job than if its students had no exposure to information. Hence, "education" as a stand-in for "well-informed" works, more or less.

Of course formal education isn't the only way to become well-informed. And some persons who have what on the surface appears to be an extensive education are woefully uninformed. It would be interesting to find a way to get at the actual information levels of a sample of voters, and see what patterns emerged, but it would be a bear to design a survey able to directly determine how well informed respondents were.

(Note: I'm using "well-informed" to indicate something stronger than merely "knows data points about the election". Having knowledge of particular details of an event amounts to merely having a good grasp of trivia, if its not accompanied by a broad understanding of current events and some grasp of the issues. I could easily survey for trivia, not so easily for a broad understanding of current events and of the issues.)

[RNdaSilva]

169. Interesting thread...

and you've raised some cogent and interesting points.

This will never happen but before a person is allowed to vote they should;

1. Be able to pass the INS test required of immigrants seeking U.S. citizenship. http://usgovinfo.about.com/blinstst.htm

2. Pass, at least by 50%, a multiple-choice test in re "...a broad understanding of current events and of the issues."

A couple of nights ago at a dinner group of ten I asked two questions;

1. Who elects the President of the United States?

2. How many senators are there in Congress?

The response was embarrassing...less than 50% correct answers.

Lastly, who elects the candidate for the Democratic Party? It is the delegates, it is the delegates, it is the delegates. Rules are rules.

[BigBluenoser]

215. I find this post very...

illuminating and bothersome. I've perceived on DU an unspoken belief that the USA would be so much better off if certain people were not allowed to vote. This was very clear during the WV primary. I'm glad to see you have cracked the silence on this issue. Kudos.

Of course this would completely disenfranchise many members of minority groups, the working impoverished, single-mothers etc. but that is okay because YOU will look after their interests by voting on their behalf. How lordly of you. Just remember, for every one you would take the vote from on the Republican side you would probably at least match the number on ours. And really, you don't think them ignunt churchies wouldn't have "voters/congregants" cramming for election day?

But thanks for making clear what I know many here have been thinking.

[dcindian]

142. I don't think Hillary's talking points or campaign style resonate well with thinkers.

The DLC and NeoCons seem to use primal wants to appeal to voters. Seems not to work so well with folks who tend to use critical thinking as part of their daily lives.

[Willo]

143. My grandfather used to say

"Don't go to college and get stupid"

Interesting at the offense some are taking at the OPs question, confusing education with intelligence.

Some people act like obtaining a degree magically gives them intelligence and common sense, like the Tin Man.

Obviously, that's not true, but anyone who attends college semi-seriously will develop different habits like studying, listening and thinking on a regular basis.

[RNdaSilva]

150. Yep,

I have an M.A., one of my grandfathers never completed high school. I was more educated, he was by far more intelligent...well, maybe smarter.

However...

[SoCalDem]

146. People with good cognitive skills can discern fact from fiction better

People who use their "gut" and their "feelings" may make great Psychics & Fortune Tellers, but I'm betting that they are not so hot at picking presidents..

When a little kid thinks there is a monster under the bed, there is no convincing him otherwise..

Under-educated/gullible people may truly believe that MzzHillie is their savior, but people have followed false prophets before, and they will again.. they can either vote for our candidate or not.. no skin off my nose.. His supporters will make up the difference if they want the old white warmonger

[woolldog]

148. A lot of defensiveness and projection going on here.

The OP simply asked for opinions regarding an observable phenomenon: Obama wins over educated voters at 2-1 margins or better.

I think it's fair to ask why this is the case.

[ekwhite]

151. As my brother asked me...

"Isn't Obama that guy with the preacher that hates white people"?

Masters in Social Work, but still low information.

[BlooInBloo]

158. Quite obviously they're educationists.

[Major Hogwash]

163. I think it is mainly because they like the message of hope and change for the nation Obama speaks of

Whereas Hillary was always saying that her husband's time in the White House was great, but couldn't point to any specific reason why her time in the White House would be as good.

They also know many people that NAFTA affected, and who supported NAFTA, despite what Hillary says today.
They have a tendency to read more about the issues than get caught up in the personalities or the emotionalism until later.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

164. George W Bush is an Obama supporter!

[Eric J in MN]

173. No, Bush is doing a fundraiser for John McCain. NT

NT

[ElsewheresDaughter]

167. Hey Frenchie Bat ...you really need to get over yourself.

[FrenchieCat]

180. I'm good

truly I am.

But thanks for calling me out of my name. Hope that made your otherwise dismal day. :smoke:

[sudopod]

172. Is there something that they know that the uneducated voters don't?

Well, that's the general nature of education, you see. ;)

[northzax]

176. they are also the voters

with more of a safety net. Which allows them to take greater chances. You can't eat hope, but if you have a freezer full of meat, taking a chance on hope is a lot easier. Simple. Obama could be a transformative president, or he could be an awful one. Hillary will be competent, doesn't have the upside that obama does, but also doesn't carry as much risk. Risk is something that only those with a safety net can handle.

[QC]

178. Very true. People have to be secure to vote on hope.

Those who are less secure want to know who will help them put food on the table, not repair their souls.

[Beacool]

189. No, it's white guilt

and liking the idea of a biracial candidate who would ideally transcend the race issue in this country. The problem is who they picked, an inexperienced man who most people didn't even know a year ago.

Personally, I couldn't care less if Obama were white, black, hispanic or any other racial combination. I don't like nor support him as a candidate for various reasons, but he's race is irrelevant. Frankly, is quite tiresome to hear that if someone doesn't support Obama people assume it has to be about race.

Please........

[FrenchieCat]

197. There is no such thing as "White Guilt". It is a made up term used as an excuse

and a retort that racists use whenever they want to justify why some folks react without regards to race or creed.

And BTW, aren't you guilty of your own rethoric here, in stating that Folks that vote for Hillary, such as yourself, do it just because you like that candidate better....but somehow you have determined that White Guilt is why White folks might vote for Obama?

Have you ever thought of the fact that some people, especially those with common sense and/or education, don't give a fuck how much melanin Obama has in his skin? Have you ever thought of that? Considering that you turn around and state that his race should be irrelevant?

Maybe folks that vote for Hillary are suffering from sexist guilt, hey?

I think what you have just written is despicable...personally.

[Neshanic]

194. Apple computers?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

214. Qualify educated?

This is nothing more than another divisive talking point. Sort of like "who would you rather have a beer with."

[Zynx]

196. This is one small step away from saying "Let's have government by the Ivy League".

Please, stay away from arguments like these. For years and years up until the most recent few decades the Republicans had an edge among these same voters.

[FrenchieCat]

198. So Hillary can promote the fact that Obama has "problems" with

Hard working Whites, but I cannot point out a fact as to whom is voting for Obama?

What kind of logic are you using to determine who should be arguing what?

This is fucking insane. Truly.

[last_texas_dem]

203. I don't believe it's that simple

Yes, more educated voters have been more likely to vote for Obama than Clinton in the primaries, but I expect that in the general election the trend of recent presidential elections will hold, with the Democratic candidate Obama winning the most and least educated voters (high school dropouts and voters with postgraduate degrees) and the Republican candidate McCain winning voters with Bachelors degrees, with the two almost splitting high school graduates. Does this indicate that a McCain voter with a college education has studied the issues and is voting more knowledgeably than an Obama-voting high school dropout? I don't think this is always the case. People vote the way they do for a variety of reasons; some "uneducated" voters vote quite knowledgeably and in line with their values and beliefs, while some voters with doctorates are essentially clueless when it comes to politics.

[FrenchieCat]

204. You are correct about the 2004 stats...........

However, according to exit polls both Bush and Kerry had an equal number of college graduates (Bush with more Bachelor's Degree voters and Kerry with more Postgraduate Degree voters) and Bush voters actually tended to be wealthier with higher income levels than Kerry voters <1>. These demographic trends, along with less obvious correlations, have been analyzed in detail by conservative pundit Steve Sailer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_geography_of_the_United_States

and you are one of the few person who responded to my Post accordingly as in with a measure of providing information in a serious manner.

Thanks.

[Utopian Leftist]

212. I've wondered about this for a long time

and I came to the conclusion, at least for myself, that a very large part of it is that better-educated voters think more strategically. Hillary Clinton came into this race having a higher disapproval rating than any other major presidential contender in the history of the polls (48 percent). Bush had a 47 percent disapproval in 2004 and won re-(s)election despite this, but one has to consider the fact that NEVER in our history has a sitting president, who ran for re-election during a time of war, failed to win. Americans simply view that as changing horses in the middle of a stream.

So while Hillary's disapproval rating is not a guarantee of failure, it is not a stretch for an intelligent person to accept that in all likelihood, she would never have been a popular president. And who here really wanted to spend another four or eight years defending the Clintons from the rabid right-wingers? Obama may yet prove to fuel a similar hatred with them, but then again at least with Obama the CHANCE exists that he could bridge the partisan divide. And no one in their right mind could possibly hope that Hillary would be able to accomplish that feat.

[MethuenProgressive]

213. Liberal guilt.

Same reason they post on ObamaUnderground