"This election they're having is not going to count for anything"

[sandnsea]

Hillary supporters, please, explain to me the ethics of your support in counting Michigan for Hillary at all, let alone counting it for her, but nothing for Obama. Here it is in her own words. She didn't take her name off the ballot because it "is not going to count for anything". And now she wants them to count for her, alone?? Tell me how that is ethical. Why are we talking about Michigan at all. They aren't "going to count for anything."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB-5ot8pNX8

[LaurenG]

1. She's a cheater and can't be taken at her word. If this doesn't tell us what we're

in for if she ever gets any more power I don't know what will.

[Yael]

2. Am I to understand she wants all of her MI delegates and that the balance

can't vote on the first vote at the Convention?

[MichiganVote]

3. Why are you so worried about Mich. since Obama has nearly sewn up the nomination?

I'm thinking some of you are confused. Obama will not be running against Clinton in the GE.

[woolldog]

4. It's a matter of principle

and not changing the rules at the end or middle of the game, regardless of whether it affects the outcome.

[MichiganVote]

6. Oh. Ok. Well if that's the case it really doesn't matter what anyone says to you. Your mind is set.

[woolldog]

7. Yes.

That is a first principle. Changing the rules mid-stream is unfair and taints the legitimacy of the contest.

[MichiganVote]

10. So the primary contest is tainted. Sort of stained like. Without honor or something. Got it.

[sandnsea]

11. Respond to Her Words please

She's the one who said Michigan wouldn't count for anything. Why are you defending her claiming the delegates now?

[MichiganVote]

14. I don't believe I did defend anything by anyone. But its curious to me why you bother to care now.

[sandnsea]

17. Again, Her Words, response?

If not, what's your point in this thread?

[MichiganVote]

18. Why to inquire about your reason for posting the query in the first place

which you now argue is for the sake of your principle.

[sandnsea]

20. You don't care about clean elections? n/t

[MichiganVote]

22. Define "clean".

[sandnsea]

25. lol, you're a riot,

sad sad sad that you care so little about our democracy that you choose to be a pain in the ass than to answer the simple question. see ya.

[MichiganVote]

26. Ok, suit yourself.

[woolldog]

33. do you think you're convincing anyone?

that you're making people rethink their assumptions etc with your intellectually dishonest posts? What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

[MichiganVote]

40. Not much other than to ask the OP why he was posting about Michigan when O. has the nom.

But for some reason that seems to bother some people here and I can't imagine why. Not sure where you're getting the intellectual whateveryoucallit part. I presume you do read what you post.

[roguevalley]

38. they have no answer because of her words. so they give guff. let

it go, sweetie. nothing to gain here.

[sandnsea]

39. I thought they'd at least try n/t

[MichiganVote]

41. Is that your principle too?

[woolldog]

21. If MI and FL are counted, yes it would taint the election.

[MichiganVote]

23. So those states should just be excluded from the GE too?

[woolldog]

24. That's dumb.

They knew in advance they'd be penalized for moving their elections up. That's why they are excluded from the primary. This isn't the first time it's happened and it won't be the last.

You can disagree with the penalty. But the party made clear there would be a penalty and what it would be. You can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Don't think it's that difficult to understand why.

[bvar22]

28. delete

:hi:

[bvar22]

29. Bogus Strawman.

Not pertinent to this discussion.

If you would like to start a thread calling for the exclusion of Fla and Mi from the GE, please do so.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[MichiganVote]

42. Nah, I'll just wait for the hangin' if its all the same to you.

[sandnsea]

9. I'm horrified and revolted

It's worse than any election fraud the Bushies have done.

[MichiganVote]

12. Really? Wow. Sorry, but you must be young to find politics so noxious.

[sandnsea]

13. See #11, got anything of substance to say? n/t

[MichiganVote]

15. Well apparantly not. But you knew that already.

[Johnny__Motown]

16. He won't be running against her in the GE, but he will be dealing with many of her statements

[MichiganVote]

19. Now why would Obama be dealing with Clinton's statements in the GE

...unless of course Democrats continue to post them, rightly or wrongly, well past the time they even matter.

Obama is running against McCain isn't he? War in Iraq, economy, energy prices...aren't those the things that matter now? Or will we just continue to spin in circles about one candidate who hasn't even won the primary...who knows

[Johnny__Motown]

36. Repugs will use them against him. They will use everything they can. including her

statement that all he has is a speech he gave in 2002 while McCain has a lifetime of experience to bring to the office

[99th_Monkey]

5. This is the craziest shit ever: counting votes when one candidate's NOT EVEN on the ballot??

please, Hillary .. say it isn't so that you're asking for MI votes to all count for you.

That's totally nuts.

This would be a very disturbing precedent to set, as it would surely be a seed to sow further
divisiveness and confusion about the primaries.

[BlooInBloo]

8. Cheney: They chose to sign up, so we can do anything we want...

Clinton supporters: He chose to remove his name from the ballot, so we can do anything we want.

[sandnsea]

27. I would have thought at least one person

would have some kind of legitimate response to this. *sigh*

[BlooInBloo]

30. Well, uh, you gotta make it fair and pick something where a legitimate response actually EXISTS.

[Major Hogwash]

31. What day did Hillary make that comment?

Do you remember?

[sandnsea]

32. Last October, iirc

The deadline was the 10th, I think this was just a few days after that. And no I won't go dig up a link.

[Major Hogwash]

34. That's what I thought - it was last year before the primaries even started in January.

But, then after she lost in Iowa, and Obama won 11 straight primaries and caucuses after February 5th, she changed her mind.

Hillary didn't win a single primary or caucus between Super Tuesday and Ohio.

She wasn't ready to win the nomination from Day One.

[sandnsea]

35. If there's no campaigning

the familiar name is going to win. She knew that. I think loading Michigan and Florida was intentional, to offset the loss in Iowa and any other problems she had before Super Tuesday, which is where she always planned on winning. Maybe they always considered Obama just another black candidate, like Sharpton and Jackson, who would never get out of the gate.

[Major Hogwash]

37. Oh, there's no doubt about that at all. They totally underestimated Obama.

The Clintons wanted to portray Obama as the "black candidate".
That's why Bubba said "Obama is no Martin Luther King" the week before Martin Luther King's birthday on January 21st.

Which was before the South Carolina primary.

Bubba didn't realize the backlash his comment was going to have in South Carolina.
He lied about it later and said that "Obama attacked me" first and he was just responding.
That was when Bubba pointed his finger at the journalist and blamed it on the media when he said "You guys live for this stuff."

But, that was total horseshit, Obama didn't say anything about Bubba or his administration.

[Crunchy Frog]

43. Her fingers were crossed when she said that.

And why do you hate women and America and God?

[george_maniakes]

44. Every party has a pooper and thats why we invited you...n/t