Kerry calls for mining royalties

[Feanorcurufinwe]

Presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., is calling for changes in mineral policies to raise money for operation and maintenance of national parks.

<snip>

His proposal states that his administration would "modernize the sale of mineral rights and use the revenue generated to increase the operations budget of our national parks." Kerry is proposing that he and running mate Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., raise an additional $600 million a year for the national parks through reforms of the 1872 Mining Law. "Together, we're going to do better and build a stronger America by preserving our national parks," Kerry said in a statement released by his campaign.

Kerry's proposal on the campaign Web site states that annual shortfalls of more than $600 million have "resulted in rampant understaffing and site closures" in the national parks system. And he accuses President Bush of "muzzling" park superintendents by instructing them to downplay cuts in operations budgets.

Kerry's proposal also claims the Bush administration has eliminated federal protections for public lands that allow mining, logging and development in national forests.

http://www.elkodaily.com/articles/2004/08/12/news/local/news4.txt

[aquart]

1. Both Bushes basically gave away America's mineral rights.

To their good buddies.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. 132 years later, it's time to reform the nations mining law.

[ieoeja]

8. These things take time.

My great-grandmother's grand-parents told yours if you just had enough patience everything would work out.

[lastliberalintexas]

67. This isn't even something we can blame on the Bushes

It is the result of their kind of "thinking", however. The General Mining Law of 1872 is a giveaway to corporations, and many of them are even foreign- certain Canadian companies have actually been some of the biggest beneficiaries of the Hardrock Act.

Calls for reform of the Hardrock Act have gone unheeded, despite the fact that this corporate giveaway has robbed the US treasury of BILLIONS of dollars of the years.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

69. Of course, Kerry isn't running to place blame, but to make things better.

[lastliberalintexas]

70. I agree

This is actually one issue where I'll give Kerry his props.

I was just responding to the poster who seemed to lay the blame at the Bushes' feet, wanting to make it clear that this problem has been around far longer than them, even.

[aquart]

71. It's true. Corruption did not begin with a Bush.

1872. Was there a teapot dome around that time?

"There is no native criminal class. Except Congress." Mark Twain.

[Joanne98]

2. That's the way to do it.

Now we're getting somewhere.

[medeak]

3. this is not good

Thank god Harry Reid dem from my state thinks otherwise. You can't believe the hoops mines have to jump through...takes almost decade to open a mine.

PLEASE KERRY...CHANGE YOUR STANCE ON THIS...this will be blown up like a bomb in Nevada..you need our state!

[sandnsea]

10. Opening mines isn't the issue

And they SHOULD have to jump through hoops to open mines. Or do you not believe there's mercury in the Carson River either? Mines don't pay enough royalties, pure and simple. It has nothing to do with the process to open a new mine. Even Nevadans understand paying your fair share.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

12. I can't speak about Nevada

but here in Montana, mining is big, too. But even bigger are the Superfund sites they leave behind, and the voters are waking up to this fact.

Reform of the 1872 Mining Law is not the ant-mining proposal that some in the mining industry would like the public to believe. It's simply a matter of reforming a law written in the 19th century to reflect the realities of the 21st century.

[medeak]

18. I know

We've absorbed many Montanan's here from mining

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. Boom and bust

they'll soon move on to the next boom.

[medeak]

28. been here for 23 years

no boom or bust. Perhaps Wyoming and Montana...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

31. Yoiu absorbed those Montanans 23 years ago?

I'd call them Nevadans, by now...

[medeak]

33. actually

think they were Wyoming people 10 years ago..pitiful. Most couldn't read or write

[sandnsea]

43. I know

Superfund is a whole other issue that burns my butt. But even in Montana, people know the difference between companies paying a fair amount of royalties and mine regulations. They're completely separate issues. That's all I'm saying. I bet Butte people would support higher royalties before they'd support tougher regulations to open new mines. One thing at a time I guess.

[medeak]

16. It IS the issue

they gave up exploration as too costly. So much easier to go out of country. Only last few months has it been continued and found new ore sites.

After all the processes hoping prices will hold to continue opening mines... we had many layoffs last year.

One more fee will convince mining companies to go elsewhere...we're a global market. Although we have 2nd largest reserves in the world...it's more economical to go elsewhere.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. I disagree. The issue is a cost/benefit analysis.

Right now much of the costs of mining are absorbed by the public instead of the mining industry. Of course, the mining industry likes it that way, but that doesn't mean it is the right thing for our country, nor does it mean that the majority of voters like it that way.

[medeak]

29. whaa?

pray tell what you are talking about?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

40. You don't understand what 'cost/benefit analysis' means?

:shrug:

[sandnsea]

53. Newmont

South Africa produces 14% of the world's gold, the US 11%. Newmont is the world's largest gold company. Looks to me like they're doing just fine and you are being sold a line in order for them to keep making profits off the taxpayer. Not only do they use OUR land for THEIR profits, but they stick us with the clean-up bill too. Bush ended Superfund taxes. We don't have to sell our country out this way. We can't afford it and neither can the people of any of the other countries around the world. In fact, that's kind of why they're flying airplanes into our buildings.

"Newmont's Nevada operations are the largest gold producer in the United States."

http://www.newmont.com/en/ourbusiness/operations/nthamerica/nevada/index.asp

http://ir.thomsonfn.com/InvestorRelations/PubNews.aspx?partner=10126

[lanparty]

62. Higher prices on raw materials means ...

... that recycling becomes more economically viable.

Thats the dirty little secret. The federal government subisdizes the harvesting of raw commodities. This keeps their prices unnaturally low and discourages the re-use of previously used materials.

This doesn't encourage outsourcing. It encourages a shift of jobs from harvesting resources to recycling them.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

72. Excellent point.

[medeak]

4. never mind...total rag

totally reacted to headline..article is from my town...a 10 page rag and know the reporter. Nothing new from her.

who the heck are you and how did you find such an obscure article?

[medeak]

6. bad thing tho

this article will get the local rednecks that work for the mines all fired up for Cheney's appearance here.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. Kerry says what he believes, those who disagree can vote for Bush.

I'm sure there are plenty of miners who won't like this - however, it is the right thing to do.

[medeak]

13. I'm just sick about it

have taken such a stance here... want to cry. This will do Kerry in.

[bobbyboucher]

38. The sky is falling!!! The sky is falling!!!

The specifics aren't even out yet and you're already believing what some mining corp bigwig says the impact will be? Can you say "vested interest"?

Kerry is right on the money.

[hatrack]

7. "Mining Is At Nevada's Core", my ass! Ensign is a moron.

Total number of mining employees statewide in 1997 (most recent Census survey available), excluding oil & gas - 12,658

Total payroll - $567 million

Value Added By Mining - $1.8 billion

http://www.census.gov/prod/ec97/97n21-nv.pdf

Amount wagered in Las Vegas Strip casinos alone in 2001 (excluding restaurants/bars/retail) - $55.3 billion



Nevada's Gross State Product in 2001 - $79.22 Billion

http://www.nemw.org/gsp.htm

Aside from that, increasing mineral fees beyond the $2.50 per acre where they've been stuck since Grant was president is going to "destroy" the mining sector? Somehow, I kind of doubt it.

[medeak]

11. It's a problem for Kerry

Agree...Ensign IS an ass. But the north has always felt Vegas should secede from Nevada...entirely different country.

Mining is overregulated as it is..you have no idea. Had to break up dinner with vet last week as had to rescue deer that got over fence into cyanide pond....would be $100,000 fine if it died.

My employees spend more time on OSHA training than working as each mine requires their own.

May sound like a repub..but not at all. We're very much into environment and our barren wasteland has been made beautiful by mine reclamation....have new lakes we never had before.

We're losing jobs to South America and Asia as so much easier to open new mines there. Only because of shrub's mishandling of economy do we still have jobs as gold at very good price.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. I don't think Kerry should pander to the mining industry.

Are you actually saying that 132 years later, the 1872 Mining Law doesn't need updating?

[medeak]

15. you're right.

have been getting info...already been increased this summer. Not a big deal...but the spin here will be horrible.

[hatrack]

17. Well, I see it as a simple matter of relative numbers of voters

Maybe the miners and their families are going to get pissed off at Kerry on this point, but we're talking about a few tens of thousands of people.

On the other hand, there are about 1 million people in Clark County for whom this is not going to be that big a deal, since it's not really part of their lives.

Of course, the GOP could unleash some serious bullshit on the airwaves out there. You know - the same kind of emotional nostalgic bullshit that makes suburbanites in Houston identify with cowboys, or in serious cases pretend to be cowboys. I don't know how prevalent that kind of sentiment is out in the Silver State. "Cowboy" comes quickly to most Americans' minds when someone mentions the West, but something tells me that "hard-rock miner" might not.

[medeak]

19. I get it

I'm from Clark County originally and my parents live there...but since I live in rural area...I'm screwed for anyone to listen to concerns?

[hatrack]

20. Question for you, since I'm not from Nevada

Do people still really go for the cowboy thing out there - rugged individualism, strong/silent-but-deadly type, riding off into the sunset and all that hoo-hah? Clark County isn't White Pine County, I know, but I suppose that cowboys both rural and urban still cross paths, just like they do here.

I can't speak from any real Nevada experience. I've only been to Vegas, then only briefly, and I thought the place was basically Hell with really nice carpeting and air conditioning.

[medeak]

25. Vegas is another world.

We have ranches that are cities with their own zip codes. Yes..it's a world you can't imagine. The locals laugh at cowboy types..real cowboys are a close community...a world most aren't welcome in.

however if someone is hiding from the law...there's no better place than to come here and push cows. They won't see another person for a year.

The folk here hate the feds...almost entire state is owned by blm...unlike any other...so mining and ranching concerns are valid.

Harry Reid (dem sen) used to have garbage thrown at him when appearing here..but after making his mining background known (his Dad killed himself when mine closed when he was in high school) he's more accepted here.

There's a window for Kerry...we're feeling it. Hear anecdotes over coffee...old rancher types saying they don't want to vote for Bush....but this mining thing may ruin it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. It is a part of their lives, because they pay the costs of cleanup.

We all pay more because the mining industry has this 132 year old sweetheart deal.

[medeak]

27. how do you pay more?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. First of all,

by basically giving away mineral rights, instead of leasing them for fair market value, we are subsidizing the mining industry. Then when the mine is played out, the public typically ends up picking up the tab for cleanup.

[medeak]

50. perhaps that's what you have experienced

haven't had the clean up nightmares here.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

58. I am talking about America, not my personal experience or yours.

http://www.ems.org/mining/profits_costs.html

[lanparty]

64. What is there to cleanup ????

It's the desert for christ sake.

Some minerals require more cleanup than others. For instance, mercury, lead, arsenic and uranium mines tend to destroy drinking water supplies and ultimately make an area uninhabitable.

Things CAN be done right ... but that requires regulation and pesky inspectors that could spoil the profit of just dumping harzardous waste materials anywhere (like waterways) instead of containing and disposing of them properly.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

65. This has to be sarcasm

"What is there to cleanup ????" It's the desert for christ sake.

I gotta assume this is sarcasm.

Some minerals require more cleanup than others. For instance, mercury, lead, arsenic and uranium mines tend to destroy drinking water supplies and ultimately make an area uninhabitable.

Funny thing about water, too, it has a tendency to not stay put. Instead, it flows downhill.

Things CAN be done right ... but that requires regulation and pesky inspectors that could spoil the profit of just dumping harzardous waste materials anywhere (like waterways) instead of containing and disposing of them properly.

Wouldn't want to do anything to spoil profits.

[lanparty]

66. Water flows downhill ...

... yes it does. It also flows straight down into the ground. And thats where the majority of Americans get their drinking supplies from .... GROUNDWATER!!!!!

If it flows downhill, it will certainly contaminate the streams, lakes and rivers along the way with anything it bears. Busting a small vial of mercury and dumping it in Lake Meade won't do much of anything to anybody. But the concentrated water discharges from a mercury, lead, cyanide or uranium mine over years will generally poison whatever it touches unless it's scrubbed first.

I honestly can't believe someone so ignorant of environmental issues is here on DU. Let me guess, all that mercury in Lake Michigan has nothing to do with burning coal either .... right????

[Feanorcurufinwe]

68. OK, I understand what you meant when you called me ignorant

but other than that, I don't know what your point is.

Are you disagreeing with any of the statements I've made in this thread? Which ones?

[bobbyboucher]

41. DID YOU SAY CYANIDE PONDS?

Say no more, pal. You are in waaaaay too deep.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

42. Migratory birds luv'em. They look just like water from the air. nt

[medeak]

51. sigh

they are covered and no birds can land on them.

Any more questions?

think I should be getting fat paycheck from some mine for this draining conversation.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

52. Birds never land in toxic mine tailings?

All cyanide ponds in America are covered?

Wrong. Those implied claims simple are not true.


Had to break up dinner with vet last week as had to rescue deer that got over fence into cyanide pond....would be $100,000 fine if it died. --post 11

So, it is covered with a fence that deer can fit through, but birds can't?

:wtf:

[medeak]

54. O lord people

am not here to defend entire mining industry.

Only know from personal experience. One deer managed to get over fence in 23 years..and yes he was resuscitated. If birds get in there is a mighty steep fine as well.

I don't know about other mines..

By the way...company does not all revenue from mines...but we have the most expertise so we are called.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

61. Could you please explain the contradiction in your comments?

You said birds can't land in the cyanide pond because it is covered and that a deer got in it by jumping a fence.

Could you please explain the contradiction?

[sandnsea]

56. New lakes?

I must be a masochist, but I gotta hear about turning Nevada's desert into beautiful lakes. All through the wonderful technology of mine waste. Tell me, tell me!

[lanparty]

63. Yeah like those mountain top mines in West Virginia ...

... where the mining companies had to pay off the Bush administration just for the honor of improving the West Virginia economy by blowing off the tops of mountains and spreading the wealth by distributing billions of "pet rocks" in all the streams and waterways for children to play with.

It's also helped West Virginians have more access to fresh water during the rains since the water is obstructed from moving downhill by the "pet rocks". Lets not forget that water is a resource too.

</sarcasm>

Mining/Timber is a dirty cutthroat industry. If they aren't regulated they would lay waste to entire regions and strip mine the Grand Canyon.

[DaveinMD]

23. Kerry will win Nevada

for one reason. Yucca Mountain. He is opposing dumping all of the nation's nuclear waste there, which Bush supports. He will win the state because of that issue. It is the single biggest issue in the state.

[medeak]

26. unfortunately

media is reporting that he originally voted against Yucca Mtn..(6 times?) didn't help that he mispronounced Yucca and Nevada as well... just telling so it can be passed on.

[DrFunkenstein]

30. In Larger Bills - He Voted Against It Directly

Which is in keeping with his amazing environmental record.

[DaveinMD]

32. and Bush

still supports the dumping. Kerry is on the right side of this issue.

[medeak]

34. there's no "dumping"

going on here.

Mine reclamation is a huge industry in itself.

[DaveinMD]

35. putting

the countries nuclear waste in yucca is dumping.

[medeak]

48. understand

misunderstood.. am feeling a bit defensive here. apologies

[medeak]

36. I'm really disappointed

It's apparent to me that there is no complex thinking here. Pray tell...all mining is bad...all logging is horrible?

What else?

There's good and bad to all...

someone said "pandering to mines" seems like there is pandering of another kind.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. That's because you aren't responding to what people are saying.

It's apparent to me that there is no complex thinking here.

Although you feel the need to insult those you are supposedly interested in conversing with, it doesn't make your case more credible.

Pray tell...all mining is bad...all logging is horrible?

Interesting. Since no one said that, or even implied it, I have to ask why you raised this typically RW strawman.

[medeak]

44. whaa?

Is there anyone here over the age of 45?

Anyone who owns a business and is responsible for employing 70 families for 20 years?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

45. Whaa?

Is there anyone here over the age of 45?

A lame attempt to belittle those who are trying to engage you in discussion.

Anyone who owns a business and is responsible for employing 70 families for 20 years?

Another attempt to avoid real discussion in favor iof ignorantly attacking people without any basis.



Pray tell...all mining is bad...all logging is horrible?

I ask again, since no one said that, or even implied it, why have you raised this typical RW strawman?

[medeak]

46. don't believe I have attacked anyone

just asking whaa? If so...feel terrible..that is not my nature at all...one of those codependent types that want to nurse everyone.

I don't understand the statements made here and asking for back up. I'm relatively new here. but have read for several years....DU has been a lifeline to me and I hope I'm welcomed here

Have only tried to portray a side of life that many don't see?

[medeak]

47. sigh

I'm an old woman and worn out...sort of feeling picked on.

Just wanted Kerry camp to know they are offending a group in Nevada that's all

ciao

[Feanorcurufinwe]

49. Did anyone here say, or imply, in any way, shape or form, that

all mining is bad...all logging is horrible?


No.

[medeak]

55. yep..this is definitely a pro mining site

I hope you are all happy. You've reduced this life long Democrat repressed living in a red neck world to tears.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

59. I'm sorry you choose to not respond to the actual question

Did anyone here say, or imply, in any way, shape or form, that

all mining is bad...all logging is horrible?

[sandnsea]

60. just not pro-rape

Mines should have to pay Superfund taxes to clean up their own mess. Clean-up is a cost of doing business. Mines should have to pay a fair royalty for their use of land, cost of doing business. And if we had a President who worked for the same kinds of environmental standards all over the globe, a LEADER, then there wouldn't be the drastic differences that you say are causing companies to leave the US. Now would there? That's what we're talking about, an economy that considers the citizens that actually own the land. The land DOES NOT belong to corporate America. Not here or anywhere on the globe. When life long Dems, such as yourself, remember that WE are the government, then we'll be able to make some progress again.

[yellowcanine]

57. Yeah that 1872 mining law is a giveaway to mining companies. I wish

Kerry good luck in getting it reformed. Lots of mining money lines the pockets of Congress critters.