Reclusive Leftist: "Understanding Obamamania: the triumph of Republican-style politics"

[Perry Logan]

For any sane readers who are wondering what the hell's going on here...

Check out this article from Reclusive Leftist on the catastrophe the Obamites have created for us.

The comments on misogyny shed special light on the anti-Clinton threads here at GD-P. That bad taste in your mouth is the misogyny which pervades Obamamania. No wonder Obama's campaign has shuttled millions of votes to John McCain--before he's even nominated.

Understanding Obamamania: the triumph of Republican-style politics

It’s no secret, I think, that most of the liberal blogosphere has become a one-note 24/7 Obama rally. People who support Hillary, particularly women, have been relentlessly insulted, silenced, even banished from sites like DailyKos. The nastiness of the Obama guys — most of them are guys — is breathtaking.

But their Obamamania is of a slightly different flavor than what I’ve discussed so far. Political junkies are not immune to the marketing stuff and pseudo-religion that captivates so many Obamabots, but they do tend to be a tad more cynical than the average bear. Cynicism, no matter what Obama says, is necessary if you’re going to analyze politics.

What makes up the shortfall for the blogger boys is a third ingredient: misogyny. Supporting Obama gives them license to hate Hillary. It’s a license to engage openly, enthusiastically, in misogyny of the most feverish kind. Hating Hillary has traditionally been the preserve of wingnuts, and the liberal boys have felt constrained (though not entirely) to stay away from too much Clinton-bashing. But now, with Hillary running against their man Obama, they’ve got their opening. Finally they’re free to engage in the crazed heart-racing hatred that only the guys on the right have been able to enjoy. Can you imagine how liberating it must be? That’s why they’re so giddy. They’ve been repressing this for years!

Here are some comments on the article. For those who have been hanging around DU too much--this is what the real world is saying about this mess:

"From where I sit, it looks for all the world like a significant slice of the left has been body-snatched by wingnut-like pod people. The gullibility, the cult-like adulation, the frantic misogyny, the insistence that anyone who disagrees is The Enemy Who Must Be Destroyed — the whole batshit crazy package has arrived."

These trash talking supporters do not want support from others. They wish to win on their own specifically excluding others. How they think they will win in November I do not understand.

...

Very few Obama supporters I've encountered are able to articulate why his actual positions stand out to them, or why they prefer them to Clinton's. Mostly, they aren't aware of what those positions actually are.

I have said several times in the past few weeks that arguing with Obama supporters is like arguing the theory of evolution with creationists. They throw up an argument, you refute it. They throw up another, you refute that one. Along about argument number five or six, they go back to number one. Any day now I expect to hear that the Second Law of Thermodynamics or the fossil record refutes the possibility of a Hillary Clinton presidency. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the parallel.

A week ago I asked a co-worker what he would have said if someone had told him a year ago that one day he'd believe the unsupported word of Matt F'ing Drudge over that of a fellow Democrat. I didn't get much of an answer.

No one talks about the huge vote called the white guilt vote or the Hillary Effect vote, women who are afraid to say they vote for Hillary.

An orgy of male bonding is taking place under the guise of "opposing" Hillary Clinton.

Obamamania is not a grassroots movement. It's a product, a very slick carefully packaged product. It's been fed to you. And part of the product is the illusion that you and your young friends are somehow creating a grassroots movement yourselves. Actually you're just unpaid salespeople and voters.

Obamamania has one goal: getting Obama elected. That's it. He's a creature of the Chicago machine who's been groomed by Axelrod to be maximally electable. He's not going to change anything. His positions are virtually identical to Hillary's except where they're more conservative. And his callow youth makes him dangerous as hell (witness how his aides had to explain to him why voting to confirm Roberts to the Supremes wouldn't be good idea).

The horror that the Obamamaniacs cannot give one any concrete information about their messiah, but can spew hate-speech is very very frightening.

Google anti-Hillary and read the 20 odd pages of disgusting insults by the Obama crowd.

I am 60 and Obama's campaign is the most destructive I've ever seen.

http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=832

[4dsc]

1. Did the GOP write this??

[Perry Logan]

11. Wow. Never saw THAT accusation coming!

You Bammers need to get some new material.

[datopbanana]

14. It's sensationalist crap. I can't believe you fell for this article. Anything to defend your girl i

guess.

[Cosmocat]

54. You saw it coming, cause it is the truth ...

I had the same viceral reaction I have had for the last 15 years over this whole republican we are the victim while doing what we portray the other side as doing - with all the usual prejoratives ...

[Ken Burch]

247. The deal is this, Perry. HRC isn't GOING to be nominated. Obama is.

Therefore, you're hurting the party to keep attacking Obama.

And you know as well as I that progressives would have nothing to look forward to in a HRC administration. You can't mock idealists and be different from a Republican.

You also can't be a progressive if you encourage white resentment in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, when white resentment was dying out before you did.

[pollo poco]

265. Perry Logan, I love you for this post!

I have been reduced to incoherent raving trying to articulate what you have so brilliantly said today.
Thanks so much!

[democracy1st]

285. It's over she can't win LOL

[mac2]

85. This campaign has two big elephants in the room...

The Iraq war and the WTO Americas Union plan.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

129. if it walks like a GOP and quacks like a GOP

then it IS a GOP

[mac2]

166. If you think this post is by Republicans then you have been

sipping too much "Neo Con" juice.

[democracy1st]

284. Barack Obama is your Democratic Nominee thats a fact,

[HousePainter]

288. No, this guy did, someone get him help

[HousePainter]

289. http://perrylogan.org

[JVS]

2. It only makes sense to protest perceived misogyny by voting for a man who calls his wife a c**t

:crazy:

on edit: added perceived because I didn't want to give the OP any false ideas

[Postman]

4. ouch.......good point.

n/t

[Perry Logan]

8. At least you admit to the misogyny. That's a start.

[datopbanana]

18. BLINDERS one size fits all HRCers.

[Perry Logan]

23. The misogny is the only explanation for all the threads bashing Hillary right now.

Obama seems to have the nomination locked. His supporters should be drinking champaign, laughing, singing, and focusing their energy on John McCain.

Instead, it's still making one feckless attack on Hilary here. This can mean only one of three things:
1. They're still afraid Hillary's gonna beat them.
2. They're misogynists.
3. Both.

[JVS]

26. Other than her disgusting campaign tactics

[Perry Logan]

41. Mirror statement. Obama's campaign tactics were the disgusting ones.

[JVS]

49. Why not stick with "I'm rubber you're glue"? There's no need to dress up that mentality

[verges]

292. You're not the first person to say that...

Howecer, it hasn't been my observation. Could you please cite specific examples?

After Edwards dropped out, I was undecided between Sens Clinton and Obama. When I voted in the Ohio primary, I voted for Obama. Yet, I would still have been comfortable with a Clinton nomination. This was before Clinton implied that a Republican (McCain) would be better qualified than a Democrat (Obama) to be President. This was before (or at least before I became more aware of) the MI/FL debacle (changing the agreed to rules after the fact is just WRONG!) This was before "hard working WHITE voters." This was before the intentional misinterpreting of "Bitter"gate. This was before the lies about sniper-fire in Bosnia.

Obama is not a perfect candidate. To be honest, the Donny McClurkin issue is problematic for me. But it is outweighed by all of Sen Clinton's negatives.

But, this is all a side-show anyway. The fact is: that Obama has the nomination tied up. Clinton can only win by smoke back-room shenanigans that, if successful, would embarass the Democratic Party for generations to come. I can't think of anything that would re-energize the Republicans more than a candidate that appears to be less than legitimate. And that's how she would appear to them if the Super-Delegates choose her over the results of the Primaries AND Caucuses.

[Damian the LHP]

323. Proof.

Either put up or shut up.

[ensho]

143. kick

nt

[dionysus]

152. or, she's been running like a republican and deserves all the ire heaped upon her...

:eyes:

[hendo]

157. Yes, it is a lock.

Unfortunately we have to fend off HRC supporters who are under the mistaken impression that she can still win this.

Like the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me.

I wonder how that translates to HRC supporters who have been fooled by thier candidate more times than I have cared to count.

She is making fools of you all.

[bagimin]

236. Oooh poor inocent little Hillary

she makes me puke. Hillary Rove. Indefensible.

[beac]

263. Because YOU are still attacking HIM and US and thereby

causing MASS HAVOC within the party!

HILLARY is responsible for this, NOT OBAMA!!!

She has whipped her followers into a frenzy (clearly) and keeps feeding them hope that she can somehow get the nomination if they just keep on threatening to vote for McCain.

How can we drink champagne and celebrate with Hillary supporters standing on our lawns with pitchforks, flaming torches, and "McCain 2008" signs????

Maybe if she, and you, could take a moment to calm down and realize that voting for McCain IS NOT the answer to our countries problems, we could STOP trying to slap some sense into you.



(edited to correct punctuation)

[pollo poco]

269. Sounds like there are there witches on your lawn?

Ya gonna slap them? How bout you burn 'em?


I know they make you do it. If they want you to stop, they should not to upset you- damn it! How many times do you have to tell them?
They need slapping around. Hell, they ALL need a good slap.

AND

They are mean mommies who keep us from celebrating
MoMMEEE I HATE YOU!

[beac]

272. Whoa dude, put down the joy juice and take a cold shower....

:yoiks:

[Damian the LHP]

325. Are you on something?

If not, get on something.
If so, get off it.

[Ken Burch]

329. No, there are people hurting our chances to win for no good reason.

That's nothing like "mean mommies" and it's not at all childish for us to have a problem with what they're doing.

[garthranzz]

270. False dilemmas usually only have two choices. But, as here, there can be more...

1. A misogynist hates women. In general. All women. Not just one.
An individual can dislike, disagree with, even disparage HRC without being a misogynist. One can admire Speaker Pelosi, Senator Boxer, Gov. Sibelius, etc. and still dislike, disagree with, disparage HRC without being a misogynist.

2. "Feckless" attacks on HRC may be motivated by tit-for-tat (petty, misguided, but not misogynistic). The may be motivated by a desire to 'save the party from self-destruction' - since as long as HRC remains in the campaign when she cannot win it diverts attention and resources from the general election; also, as long as HRC remains in the campaign, her actions can be seen (rightly or wrongly) as weakening Obama and the Democratic Party. (Note some comments about McCain, assassination, Florida, etc. These can be seen as vindictive or destructive of the party. Whether they are or not, seen as such they can elicit a "feckless" response that is not misogynist, by definition.)

Etc.

Oh, a small grammatical point:

"
Obama seems to have the nomination locked. His supporters... it's still making one feckless attack on Hilary here"

I assume that's "attack after another..." But who are what is the "it"? It is a singular pronoun. "Supporters" is a plural noun. "Obama" is a singular noun. Are you saying that Obama is making one (only one? one last?) feckless attack on Hillary on DemocraticUnderground?

Confusing.

(By the way, I saw some of that stuff on another site, where it was being quoted from right-wing and Republican sites.)

[pberq]

286. Other than Hillary's DLC corporate ties

that make her just another Republican supporting the corporate agenda.

[GoesTo11]

310. Could be they are tired of Hillary carrying McCain's water

Just a theory.

[Damian the LHP]

322. Get a new line.

BOO HO U IS MISOGYNIST

No, I'm realistic. But hey, keep whining that same line, straight out of HRC's talking points. Keep trying to divide the party. Keep going.

Then when McSame gets an easy pass to the White House to start the third Bush term, I'm going to hold you PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE.

[Deep13]

296. You're projecting. nt

[apocalypsehow]

244. You need to learn to read slower. Or better. Or just learn to read. You don't do it so well. n/t.

[Ken Burch]

250. He admitted to McCain's misogyny.

Obama hasn't been a misogynist. And we've proved that you don't have to want a right-wing HRC nomination to not be a sexist.

Maybe there STATED positions are close, but you and I both know HRC will lower herself to Bill's positions in office. And you and I both know a Democratic administration that's not to Bill's left can't be worth having.

[Raven]

3. Gosh! I'm 62 (and a woman) and Obama's campaign is the most

uplifting and constructive I've seen in years.

[Perry Logan]

15. Obama's campaign is uplifting and constructuve. That explains the joyful atmosphere here.

[mac2]

88. Full of hope and religion.

[Beacool]

140. Yeah, can't you just feel the hope and unity????

It makes me all warm and fuzzy.

:eyes:

[Straight Shooter]

149. You must be an android, devoid of all feeling.

Or you're bitter, bitter, bitter. Yeah, that's it. You're just bitter. I'm bitter, too. My friends are bitter. Everyone is bitter. Even the animals are bitter. Fish in the ocean are bitter. It's a bitter world, but Obama is the antidote.

Hop on the train, get with the program, spread the bam-jam on your Hillary-is-toast crumpet, and feeeel the love surge through your veins. :)

Someone's going to write a book about this phenomenon, and it isn't going to be a pretty picture. :hi:

edit spelling ...

[Beacool]

150. Wait, are we a couple of those racist white working class folks they keep talking about?

Except that I'm neither working class, nor lacking in degrees.

Shucks, I was so looking forward to being a part of a centrist conspiracy (the left wing having embraced Obama).

:eyes:

[Straight Shooter]

153. We are, we must be, they keep telling us so!

I don't know if I'm working class or not, being self-employed in the legal field, and I'm shy a few hours of my degree, lol. The peg of my identity never did fit into either a square hole or a round one.

Much to my chagrin, I never realized I was a latent racist until this campaign. However, thanks to the clamoring, edifying statements of so many Obama supporters who equate supporting Hillary with tacit approval of racism, I've seen the light. Yes, indeed. It's been a shock, and I'm considering therapy to deal with the trauma. :D

[mac2]

163. It's Orwellain. Keep saying it over and over and they will

believe it?

Lots of swearing from those Obama church members and supporters.

[Straight Shooter]

177. As has been noted, the O supporters should be happy and carefree by now.

If Hillary were cruising to the nomination, I wouldn't waste one post belittling Obama or his supporters. Why such anger and vitriol? It goes against their theme of hope, change and unity. It's the same "compassionate conservatism" behavior displayed by the bushies, year after year. Their guy was in power, but they remained angry, and got angrier every year.

I am sooo not looking forward to the next 4 years, no matter who wins. :(

[LisaM]

217. That is so true.

They are very angry winners, and it makes no sense. There are some other similarities to some of the over-the-top bush people too. Every day there is one or more Obama picture thread, and today, there is a "light a candle" for Obama thread. It's really weird.

[Straight Shooter]

219. "Light a candle for Obama"?

Why? Is he in spiritual distress? Are we invoking the powers of the Universe now to intercede on his behalf? Jeeeez.

[LisaM]

221. I don't know why but here is the proof of it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6135447

It certainly points to a messianic devotion.

BTW, your remarks about angry and getting angrier are spot on. I will probably steal them for use in the wider world, if you don't mind.

[Straight Shooter]

223. That is a slam on Hillary Clinton veiled in metaphysical touchy-feely parlance.

From my perspective, the Universe is not fooled at the request for Obama's "protection" and the request to aid Hillary's "mental clarity." The return on such "candle lighting" may yield a surprise result, for the intent of the heart is not pure.

Feel free to use anything I post. I'm honored. :hi:

[LisaM]

226. Good point!

I do believe in karma sometimes.

[Beacool]

175. Yep, I've seen the light too.

Therefore, this chick is either staying home or not voting for the top of the ticket in November (first time in my adult life not to automatically pull the Dem. lever).

[Straight Shooter]

178. I think you're safe not to vote for him.

Your state is blue, isn't it?

I'm in Oregon, which will be light blue, so I'm not too worried about my vote mattering, either. Downticket, though, that's the key. The real seat of power is in Congress. The people need to be reminded of this, and safeguard that institution by keeping the GOP from realizing its agenda. I will certainly vote for Gordon Smith's Democratic rival.

[Beacool]

179. I'm in NJ, we'll see how blue it is in November.

It wouldn't matter to me if I were living in a swing state. I have no intention of voting for this guy unless Hillary is also on the ticket. That would be the only way that I would force myself to pull the lever for him.

[Straight Shooter]

180. I've always felt that a vote is sacred and should never be given under duress.

Gawd, I eventually talked myself into supporting Kerry, "for the good of the party," even though I knew deep down he wasn't the right candidate. But at least he was qualified, despite having as much personality as a puddle of melted wax.

I don't want Hillary on the ticket. I think Obama would use every opportunity possible to denigrate and stymie her, in a passive-aggressive manner of course. I very much want her on the Supreme Court. :)

[Beacool]

181. Why the Supreme Court?

I want her as president and if that means first being Obama's VP, then so be it. If not, I'm not lifting a finger to get this guy elected.

[Straight Shooter]

183. The power to implement justice.

It's just my personal belief, having worked in the realm of law for many years, that real power lies in the interpretation of law and the enforcement of justice. The Supreme Court has the final say. Who knows what dilemmas lie ahead? Who could have foreseen bush v. Gore and how critical a role Sandra Day O'Connor played? (May hers and Fat Tony's last days on Earth be cursed forever.)

I do see your viewpoint, though, of veep as stepping stone to presidency, but I wonder if Obama will FUBAR the job and make it impossible for any veep of his to win an upcoming election. I have very little faith in his ability to handle the formidable tasks which lie ahead.

[Beacool]

185. I see your point.

I'm still hoping that some day she will prevail. As for Obama, I don't expect him to be a better president than Carter. Carter is a great man, but was a lousy president.

[Straight Shooter]

191. She will prevail, in one arena or another.

She may go on to be a renowned advocate for childhood diseases, for instance, the way Al Gore is for the environment.

I expect nothing from Obama. I concur with your opinion of Jimmy Carter, but he governed from the heart and from belief in his Christian principles. (IMO his reputed arrogance was due to his inability to comprehend why others didn't see events as he did.) Carter wouldn't stand a chance on the campaign trail these days, because he never was the type to use "smoke and mirrors." I am dismayed at his support for Obama, but perhaps he is looking at the effect Obama has rather than the man himself. Such effect will probably be short-lived when the mask drops and the true face of the politician Obama emerges.

[suzie]

240. She has never done anything for children, why would she start now?

[amelia]

249. You are a damn liar and should check your facts on what Clinton has done for children

[suzie]

257. No, someone who spent a lot of time with a lot of female attorneys who helped children.

And some male attorneys. Attorneys who didn't join corporate law firms or the Walmart board. Attorneys who worked in juvenile courts, child abuse prosecution units, private non-profits that dealt with children's issues. Female attorneys who took on abused wives as pro bono cases.

Female attorneys who served on the boards of battered women's shelters, group homes for children, child abuse organizations.

Senator Clinton gave some speeches about children, signed her name to a book written by others, and took credit for legislation authored and shepherded through the legislative process by others.

In Arkansas, Clinton's work on education reform made teachers the villains. Clinton acted like a Republican--she wore the teachers's anger at her as a badge of honor. And her greatly acclaimed reforms left teachers drowning in the same kind of top down regulation and paperwork as No Child Left Behind. Teachers who actually deal with children every day, who buy supplies out of their own pockets, who usually don't have corporate friends that will magically turn their $5,000 into $100,000 in a short time.

The part that has bothered me most about her claim to years of experience is the claim to be a children's advocate. She had no time for the tough business of dealing with actual children--she was far too busy being a corporate lawyer.

And BTW, I waded through several Clinton biographies and checked out the details elsewhere. I'll stand by my statements.

[Politicalboi]

304. The real seat of power is

Congress? Does Congress stop Bush from illegal wars? Does Congress impeach him? Right now POTUS is the rule of law. I haven't heard if Hillary would turn back those laws Bush gave himself and his assministration. Obama said he would. Oh and thanks for the "Light the candle for Obama" Lighting mine right now. All I need now is some incense.

[pollo poco]

271. Hey, me too! Even though I voted for BO

I'm the same age as Obama. He's so young!
But I'm a hot flash feminist. I'm so old!

I didn't know that being a feminist caused such rapid aging.

Hey-no misogyny here.

Definitely needing therapy for the cognitive disconnect required to deal with this.:P

[ann_american2004]

308. OMG!

#271
awesome post! That is me too!

I know a guy who is doing very well at work and everyone is so proud of him because he is so young (just turned 40 last month). Yet members of that same Men's Club who praise him also brag they dont sleep with their wives anymore because 'a woman over 40 is useless'.

disgusting double standard. But we cant pound it into their brains to change. The only things we have going for us are our own resourcefulness and the push to implement laws against discrimination- ALL discrimination. And for those who would spit on the old school feminist, I'd say wake the f**k up and do something to further the cause because just like the tides these things can go back to sea and all your imprints and marks on justice will be floating out there with the seaweed. ERA never passed. it failed. All men have had the right to vote before any woman.

I support Obama but not blindly. I know the struggle women have faced. And we would be stupid to think he is going to fix the rest for us like a prince charming. We will come last. We only have each other and maybe some other humanists to help us. The road is still uphill.

Obama '08

[Ken Burch]

253. Much of what you mocked in that response was legitimate frustration

With a candidate who KNOWS(as you know)that she can't honorably be nominated now, that the party doesn't want her, that she's helping elect McCain by staying in, and who appears not to care about any of the above.

Can you not understand why this(plus the false implications that Obama people are thugs, and the repetition in "Reclusive"s entry of the lie about Obama people planning riots in Denver if their candidate isn't chosen, lies that have been absolutely discredited by now) might make some Obama people a bit touchy?

And if the delegate math were reversed, would you and the rest of your candidate's supporters be OK with Obama staying in to the bitter end, even though that would do as much harm as HRC is doing staying in now?

I don't hate HRC. I'm annoyed with her for working against the party. Can you not see that there is a difference between the two?

There's nothing positive about the continued HRC campaign. I know it. You know it. Please accept reality, for the party's sake and for your own mental health. The continued campaign only diminishes HRC.

[SoCalDem]

24. 59 year old white woman..I agree..uplifting, clean, intelligent campaign

and I have witnessed a LOT of campaigns...but then I am NOT a bitter, angry woman who feels as if everyone has "done me wrong" all my life..(even though MANY have)

[Perry Logan]

27. OK. But do you get the point that millions of Democrats disagree with you?

[SoCalDem]

30. Hey, it's America..people are "allowed" to disagree with me

:P

and it's no biggie to me either.. I am responsible for ME and MY choices.. If others want a different way, that's their "deal"

[Why Syzygy]

55. Do you get that you are LOOKING for disagreement?

Not hard to find offense when we rely on the reptilian part of our brain.

[maxomai2]

248. If by "millions..."

...you mean a few hundred that post over and over again on HillaryIs44.com, then maybe.

This is manufactured outrage, and the manufacturers are a few dishonest persons like yourself who keep recycling the same stupid crap Alegre-style.

Don't insult our intelligence by presuming that we don't understand this.

[roseBudd]

43. 50 year old white woman for Obama, I don't need a Mommy, I don't need a fear monger

I don't need someone who would obliterate millions of people. Or someone so reviled she would face nothing but gridlock from the other 2 coequal brances of gov't.

[mac2]

165. Did you hear Obama's fear speech about "terrorists" on

CSPAN? He wants "policing" in Iraq. No real pull out. I see no leadership there.

[mckeown1128]

99. Your a woman and your voting for Obama?!?

How could you? You are a women hating misogynist.

Do I even need tell you this is snark. lol

[roseBudd]

216. What can I say, I hate myself. I also hate chick flicks &say things that make male coworkers blush

And the HRC supporting females with their disingenuous arguments are driving me CRAZY!

[beac]

266. Chick Flick-Hating, Salty-Talking Bitches for Obama!!

Now that's a bumpersticker I would proudly put on my car!

WHY all the DRAMA over the word "bitch"???? It's just ridiculous.

I'm a woman and I know that the word "bitch" can't hurt me, but a McCain-picked Supreme sure can. WHY can't these other so-called feminists see that???

[ann_american2004]

309. actually it can

The word can hurt you if it is used at the work place or an important gathering of people in order to separate you from other workers. A derogatory or implied sexist insult whether it be spoken by a man or even a woman can hurt you if it wrongly implies incompetence, mental instability, substandard coping skills, among others, or is used to belittle, marginalize, subdue, intimidate, or coerce. That is why discrimination laws are important.

Obama '08

[beac]

331. I don't think ANYONE is suggesting that name-calling is appropriate in the workplace..

[Wetzelbill]

277. I think the complaint is mostly against his supporters

Obama is uplifting himself, but a segment of his supporters don't do the guy any favors. Problem with the people who make this critique is they try to lump the candidate into that same group too. If anything he's about half scared of Hillary, she acts more masculine than he does. When she brushes him off it hurts him. It's interesting to see. But he's never insulted her from a sexist pov, the closest he came to personally insulting her was when he said in a flat-tone that she was "likable enough." But as much as Obama's supporters don't do him any favors, Hillary, herself, and her campaign don't do her any favors either.

[cali]

5. another obscure demented blogger. It's all you got.

[Perry Logan]

22. Namecalling seems to be all you got.

You Bammerwammers REALLY need to get some new material. Not that it matters.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yodermon]

119. "Namecalling seems to be all you got"

said the poster who immediately used "Bammerwammers".
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

[lumpy]

121. The Obamaites replies here confirm the content of the articles

in the OP. The 'cult-like adulation, frantic misogyny'. Obama's idoliters have nothing to indicate that Obama has anything substantial to offer except his now-famous line 'HOPE'. The description of Obama as "callow youth " is fitting.

[ecdab]

319. Nah, most just don't take people that use use terms like "Obamites"

seriously. If you expect serious responses to flame bait and then take a lack of serious comments as proof of something - you need to do some more thinking. So get that thinking cap on.

[earth mom]

230. Bammerwhaaaaammers is more like it!

Sorry, just couldn't resist! :evilgrin:

[Bjorn Against]

262. Did you read your OP, it is filled with namecalling. And what the hell is a Bammerwammer?

[boobooday]

6. Damnit, I've been part of an "orgy of male bonding"

And nobody told me!

A girl wants to know these things.

[Perry Logan]

17. Hilk!

[YOY]

156. We'll be naming our Penises at 5:00 EST. Be there or be a sissy.

:sarcasm:

[leftofcool]

7. Exactly why he will never get elected

[flor de jasmim]

9. What the "real world" is saying? I recommend RFK's video on the homepage

[Yael]

10. Get it out of your system now.

You have about 15 days left...

[Perry Logan]

13. Nothing is certain in politics. Obama could be indicted tomorrow...

...but I'm sure they'll wait to do that till it's too late.

[Yael]

16. Yeah, because no one thought to look into his background before

backing him on this run.

Axelrod is sloppy and Kennedy is clueless.

Rezko forever!! Long live Sinclair!!

:freak:

[roseBudd]

45. OMG!!!! Did he rob a bank?

[Yael]

70. Well, we know he doesn't steal cars.

Thanks Bill!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

120. Obama made him say that.

So stop saying that!

[LSK]

198. the earth can be zapped by the Death Star too

But I wouldnt count on it.

:eyes:

[maxomai2]

251. When FUD is all you have

Sure. He could be indicted tomorrow. He could be shot tomorrow. A meteor could hit his campaign bus tomorrow.

Do you really believe any of this stuff you're pushing? Really?

[NJmaverick]

12. Maybe the reclusive leftist should get out more often

maybe then he/she will have a clue what's going on.

[Perry Logan]

19. This is a "mirror statement."

I define a "mirror statement" or comment as a statement, usually negative, that best applies to the speaker.

Like when Republicans call liberals traitors.

Obama's whole campaign against Hillary has been based on mirror statements, e.g., Hillary played the race card (when Obama did); Hillary is using negative tactics (when Obama did); Hillary is unelectable (when Obama clearly is).

[lisa58]

29. Obama's campaign against Hillary is based on...

...past vs future and it will be his campaign against McCain as well - and it will work.

[Perry Logan]

44. I don't think the misogyny is going to work so well against McCain.

[lisa58]

56. feel better?

[Why Syzygy]

59. No. McCain already said "she's one of the guys". No problems from him at all.

He's the sacrificial candidate. Even the republicans don't think he can win.

[mac2]

89. Ron Paul can't win the GOP party and media support since he's a Constitutionalist.

He wants our borders protected and our democracy in tact. How dare he!!

[mrbluto]

87. A better term might be....

...a Karl-Rovian resonance jam.

Ever do that exhibit at a science museum (or have a problem with an echo on your cellphone) where you hear your own voice back at you with a fraction of a second delay?

It makes it so you can't even speak. Seriously. I myself, and a bunch of typical reasonably competent adults, in totally sober states, could barely speak.

There's the campaign equivalent:

Make an identical accusations and the people trying to discuss the issue will get frustrated with having to meticulously specify which particular instance (even if the others are fabricated) of the issue they are addressing and give up.

It also adds that critical bit of necessary clarification to any description of an issue, so it's less likely to make it into the sound bite Valhalla of the echo chamber MSM, where all simple tropes thrive. Yet another benefit is that, if asked about the issue you can talk about the "controversy" rather than the issue itself.

A lovely Republican tactic, not just for Republicans anymore!

Courtesy of some Obama supporters.

[NJmaverick]

90. I grow tired of your ill informed and mindless bashing of Obama

and his supporters. Why don't you find a new hobby

[mrbluto]

97. You grow tired.

"You grow tired."?

You sound like some oily pompous villain with that quip.

as in "I grow tired of these nuisances Jeeves,<swishes hand at butler> make them go away."

[NJmaverick]

101. What I sound like is a Democrat. The crap that was spewed on this thread

belongs over at the Free Republic

[mrbluto]

107. A Democrat? Pleaze.

"Jeeves," <swishes hand at butler> "Make these dissenters go back to, where is it? oh, Free Republic, or something."

"But they're not from there - these people represent nearly half the party."

"I said I was tiiiiiiired. Take them away!"

"Well, they're actually leaving on their own."

"As well they should. Suits me." <pops bonbon into his mouth. daintily dabs at corner of mouth>

[NJmaverick]

110. Obama is our nominee and bashing him is something no true Democrat would be doing

it only helps the republicans, which is why this post belongs over at FR.

[ensho]

146. he is not the nominee yet. true Dems argue over everything

until they come to a consensus

[mac2]

155. Oh don't speak up before he becomes our candidate?

What democracy are you from?

[mrbluto]

333. Oh, I thought Nomination happened at the convention.

In august.

Are you time traveling now?

He's your favored candidate perhaps, but he' not the nominee yet.

Presumptive nominee one one might rationally argue is the case.

The nominee?

Well, saying that seems a case of fiat that would be at home in the current administration.

[lumpy]

123. Some of us grow tired of the ill informed and mindless bashing

of Hillary Clinton and her supporters. Why don't you find a hobby, period.

[NJmaverick]

126. Hillary Clinton is JUST a Senator from NY, who has done much to hurt

the Democratic party. So your complaints really don't measure up with those complaining about bashing our Nominee.

[lumpy]

130. Vicious people here and media antagonists are the ones who

have hurt the party by vilifying Clinton and throwing her to the wolves. Still there are millions of people who continue to support Clinton in this very close primary race and they regret that people are willing to take chances on a neophite politician whose only platform is to claim that hope will take care of all our woes. To point out that Obama has little to offer is not bashing, it is the truth in the eyes of millions.

[NJmaverick]

132. Let us get one thing, Hillary is the antagonist in the dispute between her and the DUers

if she said the crap she has been spewing on the campaign trail, here at DU, she would have been tomb stoned a long time ago. Now bashing our nominee (Obama), IS BASHING, I don't care how you try and spin it.

[lumpy]

193. Let us get one thing straight, Obama is not the better

candidate, no matter how his adorers try to pump up his non-existent credentials.

[Deep13]

298. Right. I've been saying that...

...O. people accuse HC of what they are guilty of doing.

[Carl Yasutomo]

20. Sure, whatever

So when I, a supporter of Obama, explain my opposition to Hillary by pointing out that she voted for an unnecessary war that killed thousands of people and supported that war for a very long time, I am a misogynist?

Sure, whatever.

What I don't understand is how so many people who call themselves Democrats can even think of supporting a candidate who supports Bush-Cheney war-mongering and even now talks about "obliterating" Iran. Do you really want a president who goes around casually threatening to vaporize entire countries? Do you think that is good foreign policy? We all lambasted Bush for bringing up the "axis of evil." How is it any less deplorable when Hillary openly threatens to obliterate an entire country?

Sometimes I think I don't even recognize the Democratic Party anymore, when approximately half its members apparently support Bush-style war-mongering.

[Perry Logan]

34. The first paragraph of the article addresses your comment.

You couldn't see it because I forgot the link:
http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=832

Here's the passage:

"I don’t mean reasoned support for Barack Obama because of his positions (his actual positions, please) or his electability or his potential as a leader. There are valid arguments to be made that Obama is more appealing on all those points than Hillary (though personally I disagree). There is also the argument that a Clinton presidency would mire the country in another four to eight years of 90s-style wingnuttery (an argument I respect but ultimately reject, because I think the exact same thing awaits Obama)."

[Why Syzygy]

61. It (sock puppet "Dr. Violet SOCKS") ..

doesn't use logic very well, does it?

There is also the argument that a Clinton presidency would mire the country in another four to eight years of 90s-style wingnuttery (an argument I respect but ultimately reject because I think the exact same thing awaits Obama)."

If the same thing (90s-style wingnuttery) is going to happen to OBAMA TOO, then It is obviously admitting that "90s-style wingnuttery" awaits Hillary! It included both and then says it doesn't agree. Nonsensical.

[LisaM]

222. Did you support Kerry? Edwards?

Who did you support in 2004? Did you vote for Kerry?

[Dinger]

21. It's True

I have friends and relatives who support Obama, and they are not able to articulate specifically why they support him. If they could, they might win over some voters, even some Hillary supporters. The typical response is "Well, after the campaign Hillary's run . . ", "Her "racist" comments", "The math . . " etc. It's like they've been programmed. I gave up a while ago.

[Carl Yasutomo]

28. Well, how about this

Well, how about this: I support Obama because he opposed the war, and I oppose Hillary because she supported it for a very long time, never apologized for her support, and even now threatens to obliterate Iran.

The Iraq War is the most disastrous foreign policy in American history and it needs to end NOW.

[Dinger]

38. I Am Glad He Opposed The War, But With All Due Respect,

he was not is the same position as Hillary. That meaning he didn't have access to the same information, and didn't have a vote in the U.S. Senate. We can only guess how he might have voted if he were in her position.

[kitfalbo]

92. Hillary

I support Obama over Hillary because Hillary's position over autism is similar to the cure autism now nuts. When I hear him talk about topics similar to this, small ones for some people big ones for others. He honestly seems more informed and knowledgeable and understanding of those involved. Hillary seems to have read a 90 word summary and either has a disturbing opinion or an uniformed one.

[DemVet]

290. True enough.

Besides, he didn't exactly oppose the war by authorizing the funding for it.

[Jen-MI]

295. Exactly! n/t

[Auntie Bush]

330. He even admitted...He didn't know how he would have voted.

[Beacool]

142. Easy to give a speech when one is not in the hot seat.

Once in the senate his voted vote paralleled Hillary's over 80 times.

[lisa58]

35. "The Math" isn't a programed response...

...Obama only needs 49 delegates to win the nomination and I don't see Superdelegates buying Clintons argument that he's not electable or they would have flocked to her by now.

[Perry Logan]

37. Surely they've seen the polls. Obama is fading like a summer flower.

They must know about Obama's closetful of scandals--Rezco et al. Maybe they want to lose.

[Yael]

40. Planet Earth to Perry Logan:

It is almost JUNE. JUNE.

There are 3 primaries left.

Its. Over.

[Perry Logan]

52. Missing the point--another Obamite speciality. Must be the ecstasy.

Or blood poisoning from tattoos.

[Dinger]

47. But It Conveniently/Inconveniently Avoids A Discussion Of Obama's Stand On The Issues

It could be a programmed response if the person using it wants to avoid an explanation of Obama's stand on the issues. It's a response that works.

[mac2]

91. Fill in the blank and Obama is for it is the thinking.

[lumpy]

127. The Obama campaign has been like American Idol. But even

some of those contestants can sing. All Obama's supporters can do is vilify Clinton because there is nothing in Obama's resume that they can crow about. Obviously.

[mac2]

158. He's more church and state than I would like for any

President. We have a democracy not a theocracy. His church and many other black church members seem to forget the Constitution. They are running a man who would plunder our treasury for Faith Based funding and religious wars.

It's not just rich, old, white men who want to destroy our democracy and Constitution these days.

[Saturday]

25. The comments are very insightful. I especially think this one is true.

It is evident here on DU every day.

"These trash talking supporters do not want support from others. They wish to win on their own specifically excluding others. How they think they will win in November I do not understand."

[mrbluto]

66. How they will win.

It's obvious.

They'll let everyone know that it's "their turn", what ever that means, and then everyone will capitulate and then Obama will be inaugurated.

I'm surprised there's even the need for an election.

You heard Obama supporters tell us that it was over in February - if only we had listened, we could have saved a lot of effort. It was evil of Hillary to even continue to run once we were all informed of Obama's victory, and despicable that that she hasn't stepped aside.

There.

Now do we all understand what sort of democratic victory we're likely to have in November?

Me? I can barely wait.

[rodeodance]

169. And many Obama supporters have ostracized Clinton supporters and do not

seem to care or want them back for next November.

Obama himself said he believes that Clinton supporters will vote for him in the GE and his fans

say--YAH. Little do they know.

[billyoc]

31. I'd ask for a link, but I can see why you don't have one.

"I still don’t have regular internet access and I don’t watch TV, so I’m out of the loop." --Reclusive Leftist.

:rofl:

[Perry Logan]

32. My bad. Link supplied.

http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=832

[JVS]

33. he must be conducting political debates with the toaster and the breadbox

[Perry Logan]

36. Good critique.

[Why Syzygy]

39. Once again, Hillary is HURTING the cause of women. She cannot do harm and then claim harm.

This must be the new talking point coming out to push today. Trying to convince everyone that Obama is a misogynist and by proxy his supporters are too. That is very poor form. In my case, I happen to know it is a BIG FAT LIE.

These attempt to paint Hillary as Martyr Mother are pathetic and insulting.

[Yael]

48. You mean kinda like this?

[Perry Logan]

50. Go ahead--call her a b*tch. You know you want to...

[Why Syzygy]

76. I'm convinced that nothing short of crucifiction will satisfy this bunch.

Mother Martyr.

[lumpy]

131. Well it appears Obama's wife is a misogynist., hehe. Her

famous slam agaist Hillary, something to the effect " if you can't run your marriage and family, how can you run the white house".

[Beacool]

144. I can't believe I'm defending Michelle,

but she was referring to her own house. She wasn't talking about Hillary.

[lumpy]

194. So you say. Review the video. It is clear she was

referencing Clinton. http://youtube.com/watch?v=sN1qZMBE9Gc

[ensho]

148. if she did say that then she is not a feminist

nor well informed.

[ann_american2004]

311. wow. I agree

I cant believe she said that. That is underhanded/passive aggressive. My view of her has been tarnished, though I forgave her "first time I'm proud" statement.

Obama '08

[pollo poco]

274. Oh yes, Hillary is actually causing the abuse

Then she cries foul-when you know she brought it on herself.
She's leading us all on. Begging us to call her a bitch and a whore.
Running for president- she's asking for whatever we give her. We can't help ourselves. She should know better.

And, when Hillary says something stupid, it's just like every woman said it. Hillary represents all women.
Just like John McCain represents all men.

Stop misrepresenting all us women, Hillary! You're hurting us! And you're making my boyfriend really mad.

No misogyny here.

[FlaGranny]

42. You mean that no one is voting for

him because of his campaign and policies? Well, who knew? I thought I chose him over Hillary because of his policies. I thought I didn't like Hillary's war vote and refusal to ever really apologize. I thought I didn't like her obliterate statements. I thought I liked Obama's style of foreign policy. Geez. Who knew I was just one of the boys (I am a woman) who was worshipping a messiah? I thought I was an atheist. Geez. Again, who knew?

I am nearly 70 and Obama's campaign is the best I've seen since the 60s.

Edit: I'm not going to list the reasons here that I like his policies. All you have to do is go to his web site and read them for yourself. They are all there and in great detail.

[Perry Logan]

46. Yes--that's what I mean.

[FlaGranny]

60. See my edit.

You are implying that I'm a very uninformed and "stupid" person if you say those things. I'm not stupid enough to make post after post of nonesense like someone else I know. If you want to know why, look at the policies on the Obama web site. Those are the reasons we are voting for him.

[Laurab]

237. I really hope you're being paid to post the nonsense you post.

Honestly, I do. No one could possibly be as blinded from reality as you appear to be - in ALL of your posts that I've had the displeasure of seeing.

I don't know why anyone bothers to argue with you. Up is down, left is right, and all of us female Obama supporters hate ourselves and other women. I wouldn't bother to argue with someone who obviously doesn't have a rational bone in their body, but I really hope you're getting something out of your nonsensical arguments.

[Why Syzygy]

51. "Dr. Violet Socks" is a SOCK PUPPET for a feminazi.

I never knew they existed until Hillary ran. They do.

[Perry Logan]

53. It should tell you something that you're using Limbaugh words. Speaking of misogyny!

[Why Syzygy]

77. So the fuck what? BILL WENT ON LIMBAUGH!!!

And Hillary went on O'Reilly. Don't play better than thou with me.

[lumpy]

197. Obama doesn't have the cajones to go on O'Reilly.

Maybe he should send his wife. She would be able to over shout him.

[pollo poco]

276. Thanks for reminding us

That balls=courage

And you got a good lick in on Obama's wife, too.
Boy, what a loudmouth she is. I'll bet she really has him 'whipped

No Misogyny here!

[lumpy]

195. If Rush Limbaugh said it, it must be true.

x

[Perry Logan]

57. Obamite people don't really have to comment on this. The thread is addressed to "sane readers."

Obamites can go out and bash Hillary some more. The smaller, meaner Democratic Party is such fun!

[Danger Mouse]

318. haha, so you're one of the 'sane ones'?

[jefferson_dem]

58. Digging up and posting some 2.5 month old post from an obscure blog...

Weak.

[Perry Logan]

65. Duce, there's GOBS o' stuff! The New Statesman: "Hating Hillary," for example.

"Gloating, unshackled sexism of the ugliest kind has been shamelessly peddled by the US media, which - sooner rather than later, I fear - will have to account for their sins

History, I suspect, will look back on the past six months as an example of America going through one of its collectively deranged episodes - rather like Prohibition from 1920-33, or McCarthyism some 30 years later. This time it is gloating, unshackled sexism of the ugliest kind. It has been shamelessly peddled by the US media, which - sooner rather than later, I fear - will have to account for their sins. The chief victim has been Senator Hillary Clinton, but the ramifications could be hugely harmful for America and the world."
http://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2008/05/obama-clinton-vote-usa-media

This is a good site for tracking Obama's imminent downfall and the return of his supporters to the nothingness from which they came:
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/

[billyoc]

62. Some powerful backing for a blogger with no internet/tv.

[Yael]

64. That McCain ad is lovely, no?

:rofl:

[billyoc]

71. Yes, you know you've "arrived" on the leftist blogging scene when you get McCain ads.

:rofl:

[Yael]

75. View Source. It is a widget that the blogger added to their site.

By choice.

:rofl:

[billyoc]

82. I know! The best part is, McCain gets top billing over Hillary!!

You have to scroll down a ways to see the Goddess of Peace!

:rofl:

[Yael]

63. Well theres nothing amiss about that site. ROFL!!!!! (pic)

I would expect a "reclusive leftist" to be promoting John McCain. You?

[Perry Logan]

67. It's the Bammer Strategy: miss the point...go ad hominem. (I mean ad feminem.)

[Yael]

69. You are reposting from a site that is promoting John McCain and you think *I* am missing the point?

:rofl:

[Why Syzygy]

113. SHE'S A SOCK PUPPET!!! She has a blog. Everyone has a blog!

She is entitled to her own tatty opinion, but it has zero influence in the real world.

[Bjorn Against]

264. And we all know that article you posted did not contain any ad hominen attacks, right? Please.

[mrbluto]

72. Yeah. Because...because...

...logic, anything one says actually, is completely invalidated by the close proximity of a picture of an opposing candidate.

This explains both why Obama people pounded on Edwards, as well as Hillary.

[Yael]

73. Um, this isn't a pic with an opposing candidate

It is promoting John McCain. Something the blogger had to add as a widget to their site. On purpose.

[mrbluto]

94. Get your eyes checked.

If I'm not mistaken the person in the McCaine ad is a young John McCaine.

Doesn't matter - the basics still apply to text, or ads:

"If something/someone you are in opposition to is in the vicinity of something, then that something, even if it starts to make sense, or appears logical, don't worry - it can be safely ignored - nay, VILIFIED!"

Logic and sense are just a ruse to change your mind - don't give in!

[Yael]

98. You are a very bizarre individual.

[mrbluto]

105. And your sense of Humor or Irony is deficient.

Just for you I'm going to spell out what my post implies:

Just because a text appears near the text, symbol, or image of something you oppose it is not necessarily valid or advisable to dismiss what it says.

There you go. See? Calling me a name got me to cut your metaphorical food into small bite-sized chunks absolutely bleached of nuance. Next stop is pureed applesauce.

Open your mouth! Here comes the airplane!

[lumpy]

200. LOL

check

[Carl Yasutomo]

68. Perry Logan: What's up with your signature?

"Q: How do you make an Obamite laugh? A: Tell a sexist joke."

That is just an unfounded smear. Please remove it.

[Perry Logan]

74. See "Hating Hillary" in The New Republic.

http://www.newstatesman.com/north-america/2008/05/obama-clinton-vote-usa-media

"Gloating, unshackled sexism of the ugliest kind has been shamelessly peddled by the US media, which - sooner rather than later, I fear - will have to account for their sins

History, I suspect, will look back on the past six months as an example of America going through one of its collectively deranged episodes - rather like Prohibition from 1920-33, or McCarthyism some 30 years later. This time it is gloating, unshackled sexism of the ugliest kind. It has been shamelessly peddled by the US media, which - sooner rather than later, I fear - will have to account for their sins. The chief victim has been Senator Hillary Clinton, but the ramifications could be hugely harmful for America and the world."

[MethuenProgressive]

79. Great sig line, Perry! A quick look at the Greatest Page proves it, too!

ObamaNation abhors the mirror.

[olkaz]

86. How does that make it not an unfounded smear?

I can point to articles that have actual racist Hillary supporters. With quotes. And that still doesn't make all Hillary supporters racists.

[Why Syzygy]

116. But we are not dancing to your death march. But you go right ahead and spin.

[Beacool]

145. Great article!!!

Thanks for posting the link.

[LowerManhattanite]

147. It was worse...

It said as of a day or so ago;

"Q: How do you make an Obamite laugh? A: Call Hillary a (insert horriffic, objectifying slang for the female genitals here)."

'cept he spelled it out with an asterisk in the “u” spot.

[mac2]

78. They are the same political bent...New Democrats. DLC

I'm a bit older than than you and think the same thing. The party leaders and media determined the candidates and the winner this time prior to the GE.

Super Delegates picking a candidate (when the rest of us aren't capable) is not democratic or wise. They are the power elite and many no longer in office. They belong to those world order organizations, the "Economic Royals", who meet behind closed doors. These groups and members violate the Logan Act which our government refuses to enforce to protect our survival as a democracy.

The manipulation by Republicans and our own party has taken away the rights and voices of MI and FL primary voters. Many are angry and will vote the other way...be it an Independent, Green, or Republican candidate.

The small Conservative states went Obama (Democrats and cross over Republicans) but in the end McCain will carry these states in the GE. The large states told to get over it and vote for the two candidates picked by those smaller ones.

The Progressive candidates dropped out prior to Super Tuesday as a good thing for the party. How do we know they would not win since the larger liberal states didn't even get to vote for them?

Chair Dean (under the guise that discord will lose us the election against McCain) is even trying to pick the primary winner and VP prior to the DNC convention so the delegates (chosen by the people of their districts) can't decide for themselves the issues and winner. It is a way of silencing the delegates who oppose the war and bad trade organizations who are destroying this country.

We have been negotiated and manipulated into being one ruling party by the few elite. Hardly the party for the workers. Yes...I agree with you. Thanks for saying it.

[Straight Shooter]

151. "The party leaders and media determined the candidates and the winner ..."

It still amazes me how McCain went from dead in the water to the nominee. I'll never forget the nearly total media blackout, in essence, of John Edwards' stunning showing in Iowa.

TPTB, especially the media, wanted a "horserace" all along. Al Gore said this to Diane Sawyer's face in a televised interview. So here we have the ultimate trifecta for an election season: we have the issues of age, race, and gender. Thank goodness I don't watch television; the Internet is bad enough.

[kitfalbo]

80. crazy

I'm sure this person is hilarryis44 member. All replies agree with her on her site because she edits them. SHe also promoted voting for the green party if obama got the nomination.
I actually preferred hillary prior to super tuesday, and aside from the online community i've yet to meet anyone crazy for obama. And the Obama online community is better than the nutzo for hillary group.

[reflection]

83. Absolute tripe.

Full of conjecture and preconceived notions. If the writer of this piece thinks Obama's campaign has been 'destructive', then s/he is either being disingenuous or is willfully blind.

[MadHound]

84. Another Hillary supporter, quoting another pro-Hillary blog, though this one has a new twist

It is sponsored by the McCain campaign<http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/> So tell me, in light of this obvious pro-Hillary, pro-McCain bias, why I should give a good Goddamn what this blog thinks or says? It is nothing more than another subjective hack trying to turn the tide, using ever more vile, fetid bullshit to smear Obama and his supporters.

Hey, Perry, next time try pulling from sites that aren't sponsored by the McCain campaign, you know, ones that might actually be liberal or Democratic, not neo-cons in disguise.

[mac2]

95. One party ruling America is not a Hillary campaign message.

It's what we see today with both parties and candidates.

[lumpy]

133. Unfounded gobbily goop = " ..sponsored by the McCain

campaign". A typical Obamaite lie and convolution.

[DemVet]

93. The single most true quote of the article:

"Very few Obama supporters I've encountered are able to articulate why his actual positions stand out to them, or why they prefer them to Clinton's. Mostly, they aren't aware of what those positions actually are."

[Perry Logan]

102. Exactly. Hillarophobes don't know jackshit about her record.

[lumpy]

135. Post 96 illustrates what you are talking about, Perry.

All they want is to adore Obama and hate Hillary Clinton.

[ingac70]

96. I am a liberal woman...

and I think Hillary Clinton is a piece of shit... I've never liked her, and a dislike her even more after she has shown her ass in this primary.

She is a warmonger... Republican lite.

[Perry Logan]

103. You would flunk a simple quiz on Hillary's record.

[ingac70]

186. With questions such as...

"what was Hillary's vote on the IWR"?

I think I'll pass handily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSu0zXCR9sE

[mac2]

161. As a liberal women you should clean up your language.

It gives you no excuse to swear.

Obama is a war monger too. You just wait. He wants "policing" which is what Bush calls it.

[SanchoPanza]

100. "How can that be? No one I know voted for Nixon."

Anecdotal evidence is about as useful as an asshole on an apple.

[D23MIURG23]

104. Its 3am and your desperation is showing...

[mrbluto]

109. Paradoxically...

...that "your desperation is showing." line is one I most often hear from desperate people.

Just saying.

[D23MIURG23]

182. Been surveying?

Or is this based on your assumptions...

[mrbluto]

227. What part of "just saying" don't you understand?

What does "Just saying." mean to you?

Perhaps where you come from, or if it is uttered by your favored candidate, it signifies "unassailable truth.

Me? It's a clear signifier of opinion.

It's not some secret way of saying I did some laborious expensive poll to discover my opinion. It's just my opinion.

Based on experience.

There is a difference between experience and assumption by the way. You'll probably discover that some day, hopefully not at too great a cost.

[gabby garcia]

106. Dr. Violet Socks...

is an idiot.

[iconicgnom]

108. another Republican OP

[Tippy]

111. Goggled anti Obama quit counting at 51..was on page 7 at the time........

[Perry Logan]

117. Keep goggling, bro.

[lumpy]

136. Is that what a goose does? Goggle?

Silly goose.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Why Syzygy]

124. Fatal flaw. Using the word bitch does not a misogynist make.

You may believe otherwise, but it is a functional slang word.
Freedom of speech survives.

[IsItJustMe]

114. Get help, soon I hope.

[xchrom]

115. recommend --

[stevietheman]

118. The most "misogynist" thing I've said about Hillary was about how much I like her pantsuits

This idea that "Obamamaniacs" hate women is sheer nonsense. It's all stereotypes based on the adolescent behavior of a few. The vast majority of us support women's rights, and will defend them very very strongly.

[mcctatas]

122. Paging Dr. cliffordu

...
Dr. cliffordu is seriously falling down on his patient dosing schedule!!!!!

:)

[Mike L]

125. Obamoron catastrophe: Losing a general election that should be a gimmie. em

[izzybeans]

128. .

:rofl:

I love the smell of delusional flaembait in the morning.

[NeedleCast]

134. More Old People for Hillary

Danger! Danger! Scary Black Man!

[kiranon]

196. Gerontophobia?

[lumberjack_jeff]

137. The result is apparent, I'm not sure misogyny is a root cause

Some of the worst and most vitriolic trolls on DU/p are women.

To both genders, it has to do more with generational identity. To consider ones' self hip, cool, engaged and knowledgeable by virtue of the movement they've attached themselves to, they must reject all that has come before as the opposite. Thus, anyone who can remember five pages of Clinton accomplishments is dismissed as delusional. In the "old is dumb" world-view, democrats who brought us Kennedy, Carter and Clinton are all as culpable for Nixon/Reagan/Bush malfeasance as their opponents were. To recognize their contributions is counterproductive, thus ignorance is a prerequisite.

This kind of selective blindness allows Obama's supporters to feel smugly superior to the "ignorant white fucks" and "toothless West Virginians" who paid for the supporters tuition. Disassocation also allows them to speak passionately about the noble immigrants who only want a better life for their families, by taking jobs that no american will do - like construction. "After all, Americans all aspire to be baristas with a major in english lit, like me."

Personally, I don't think that Obama has brought people into the party. He has wrested the party from its working class roots and given it to those who simultaneously ridicule traditional democrats and who, as evidenced by their self-identity of "independent" clearly haven't paid any attention in the past 16 years.

I really have no tolerance for being lectured by people who didn't decide to be democrats until they heard Obama. The difference between the parties is crystal clear, and it has been for generations.

[lumpy]

201. Erudite.

Thanks

[whatchamacallit]

138. Why don't you post another unsettling video that no one wants to watch? eom

[YOY]

164. The ones where he repeats the same general idea over and over with no supporting statements

but plenty of whacky video and sound effects?

[Beacool]

139. Bingo!! I couldn't have said it better:

Obamamania is not a grassroots movement. It's a product, a very slick carefully packaged product. It's been fed to you. And part of the product is the illusion that you and your young friends are somehow creating a grassroots movement yourselves. Actually you're just unpaid salespeople and voters.

Obamamania has one goal: getting Obama elected. That's it. He's a creature of the Chicago machine who's been groomed by Axelrod to be maximally electable. He's not going to change anything. His positions are virtually identical to Hillary's except where they're more conservative. And his callow youth makes him dangerous as hell (witness how his aides had to explain to him why voting to confirm Roberts to the Supremes wouldn't be good idea).

[butterfly77]

141. Bullshit!

Hillary earned all of the hate she has gained. There wouldn't be twenty pages of insults if she hadn't did something to earn them. There are a lot of so called Obamianians that were former Hillary supporters who finally started paying attention to Hillary's lies and Obama's truth...

[mac2]

159. Hillary's lies and Obama truth?

What a bunch of bull. Obama has been caught lying more than once. Hillary and he are of the same ilk and political agenda.

[butterfly77]

170. I know..

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

[SeaLyons]

154. ....and so there you have it, folks!

This post should be bookmarked by all at DU. You're going to be looking for answers in November! Here they are.

[Damian the LHP]

328. Yeah, answers...

...to questions like "How crazy are people?" and "Why did John McCain win?"

[Sundoggy]

160. Never darken our towels again

This article is supposed to describe me? Sheer fantasy.

I am so GLAD you people are losing. Down, down, down with you.

[earth mom]

231. FYI-Saying "you people" is racist.

Or so I've been told by other Obama kool aid drinkers. :crazy:

[Tellurian]

162. Obama supporters are responsible for the division in the Dem Party

Show me one instance, where they or their candidate, self proclamined as the "Uniter, not a Divider", has ever prevented his supporters from attacking Hillary supporters.

[mac2]

167. They swear a lot too.

Will we be safe when they do gain power? They seem full of hate and anger to me.

[Sundoggy]

168. Unlike, for instance... oh, never mind

You people are simply NOT going to get it. We're simply going to be forced to roll right over you.

[Tellurian]

235. You can try. I hope you like surprises!

[Bjorn Against]

267. And when has Hillaryis44 prevented anyone from attacking Obama supporters?

[PVnRT]

171. So, if I don't like Hillary, I'm a misogynist Republican?

Uh-huh.

[haymakeragain]

172. More whining, desperate, bullshit, can't wait for it to be over, this is getting

so fucking pathetic.

[Hippo_Tron]

173. She lost because her strategist were overpaid idiots

It amazes me that you actually believe that Hillary lost because of the attacks from some anonymous people on the internet that must have clearly been inspired by the Obama campaign. You give the progressive blogosphere far too much credit.

Get a clue, she lost because her strategists didn't have a post Super Tuesday plan and they wasted all of their money on big state media buys hoping that the media would crown her the winner if she won California. She would be the nominee right now if she had hired someone who didn't have their head up their ass like Mark Penn did.

[RichardRay]

174. Sorry for whatever you've got caught crosswise, but you're wrong.

and so is the blogger you quote.

Yes, there are misogynists who are supporters of Senator Obama, just as there are racists who are supporters of Senator Clinton. Neither of those facts make the Obama campaign anti-woman, nor the Clinton campaign prejudiced against non-white participants.

Both the blogger's comments and yours in reposting them are purely destructive, I really wish there was a way I could get you to stop, but I don't think there is.

Short of getting Barack Obama to drop his bid for the nomination and agree to every attack you've leveled against him is there anything that would make you happy? Anything at all? I'm not saying I can provide it, or that Senator Obama or his campaign would, but I'd just like to know if there is any place left to even try for a rapprochement. If not, then I suppose we'll just be enemies, but I'd like to check, first.

[pollo poco]

279. Since you asked...

I am not offended by Obama. I voted for him.

But, I am offended by clueless sexist bullies.

One does not have to be a Hillary supporter to be offended by the gratuitous woman hate fest.

I only want those who are not clueless sexist bullies to admit that it's going on.

Just admit it. Just like we had to admit that we were a racist nation to progress on the issue of race.

Admit it. We are a sexist nation, in the throes of wartime fascism. Hatred of women, immigrants, intellectuals, homosexuals...all symptoms.

Admit it. All of you. We are a sexist nation. Our country was founded on the exploitation of unpaid women. It is a stain on our country- just as

deep and wide as racism.

Admit it. Then we can start to move forward.

[RichardRay]

303. No problem, I freely admit we're a sexist nation...

just as we're a racist one, an ageist one, and just about any other 'ist' you can come up with. Those behaviors are bred into our psyches and each of us will struggle with them as best we can. Hopefully, those who choose to have children will teach their kids better than they were taught and things will get better.

Now, does that justify the conclusion that Senator Clinton has been bested in the contest to be the nominee for president of the Democratic Party as a result of sexism? I don't believe so. As I said before, I'm certain that some folks voted against her as a result of her gender and their antipathy toward women. Just as certainly some folks voted against Senator Obama based on their antipathy to wards his race. And just as certainly some folks voted for each of them for the same reasons. I do not believe that the issue was decided on the basis of those issues, however.

Does that get closer to what you need? Or, do you want me to ascribe Senator Obama's victory to his personal antipathy to wards women? Or his campaign's anti-woman attitudes? Or his supporters common misogyny? Where does it need to go?

[anigbrowl]

176. It's not the Obama crowd who keep advancing fallacious arguments.

There seems to be a trend among people who fervently object to Obama (as opposed to merely preferring Hillary, but being willing to 'agree to disagree') of imitating an argument but being quite unable to construct one that stands on its own two feet. Hence the endless goalpost moving, disregard for consistency, and evidence-free imputations.

[OzarkDem]

184. Good post

The internet can be a desctructive force in the hands of people who have little experience in the political world.

[rucky]

187. Wrong.

We hate her because she's Muslim.

[SeaLyons]

188. K&R

[AtomicKitten]

189. PsychoPsyOps!! Hillary has run her campaign like the Brooks Bros mob.

[OzarkDem]

199. For you

:tinfoilhat:

[AtomicKitten]

220. no worries -- those without their head in the sand know the truth

and the precise reason why she will never be president or Obama's VP

keep on pretending!

[HamdenRice]

190. Oh! My! God! Another multi-line post from the nutjob called insane by his local newspaper!

WTF is going on Perry? Is the imminent defeat of your gal inspiring you to do cut and paste jobs of actual semi-thoughts rather than the drive by one liner idiocy you are famous for?????

Even so, it has zero impact or persuasive power.

O! M! G!

[Ian_rd]

192. Can always count on you, Perry.

You're as predictable as the sunrise.

[susankh4]

202. Hell yeah!

"Obamamania is not a grassroots movement. It's a product, a very slick carefully packaged product. It's been fed to you. And part of the product is the illusion that you and your young friends are somehow creating a grassroots movement yourselves. Actually you're just unpaid salespeople and voters."

Damn straight it is.

[alwysdrunk]

203. Is it really like that?

With the Messiah and the Saviour and stuff? Serious question not trolling. I'm out of the country and I get all my info online. I've read this before but I thought it was just sour grapes. But then no one responding argues that much against it?

[Bensthename]

205. nah, it is called being a sore loser..

She lost and Obama won fair and square. It is too much for the Hillbots to handle so they create these to feel better. It is their counseling session of sorts.

[VotesForWomen]

204. more than a grain of truth there, that's for sure. nt

[leftupnorth]

206. Aren't you the same guy who posts/posted those incomprehensible

rants in the video forum?

I always thought you seemed like the guy who throws rocks at the cops at the protest and gets everyone gassed and beat up.

[Perry Logan]

210. Maybe incomprehensible to YOU, earthling...

[hardtoport]

281. No, not incomprehensible

Just painful to watch, kinda like watching a 4 year old begging for attention from his Mommy.

It's rare I don't enjoy watching Bush bashing, Perry, but even in the rare instance you right about something, you present it in such a fashion as to be make me embarrassed for having sat through the spectacle.

You really do HRC no favors by pleading her case. So by all means, please keep it up. You only confirm my conviction that I voted for the right guy.

[FVZA_Colonel]

207. I have to ask:

do you post on Hillaryis44?

[Perry Logan]

209. No, I don't believe I've been to Hillaryis44.

So many sites, so little time.

[Perry Logan]

208. Point of order--technically, I can't be a sore loser till I've lost.

Besides, I don't feel half as sore as the Obammerjammers evidently do, judging from their sour tone.

Below is an excellent statement I ran across, whilst surfing the saner--i.e., pro-Hillary--areas of the web. Non-Obamites are advised to get to some of these places. They're much cheerier than DU--no misogyny, don't you know. They're also better written. I'm no genius, but I'm sure Hilarites have a good ten to fifteen IQ points over the Obamites.

(They're keeping the racism well-hidden, by the way.)

Anyway, here's the sort of thing disaffected Democrats are saying:

If Obama wins the nomination many of us will not vote for him. We are Americans first and loyalty to a party that has no respect for theirvoters is suicide.

A vote for Obama is confirmation that whatever the DNC did to get him nominated is OK. No matter how deceitful, fraudulent and hateful.

And we believe that if he wins in November, it will be because the dead voters who cast their votes in the primary cast their votes in the general.

this is some of our intentions on voting during the general election:
1. Vote for McCain
2. Not vote at all
3. Vote for all the other candidates and issues, exclude president selection
4. Vote for 3rd party if allocated on the ballot.

We cannot vote for a candidate who is unqualified and a fraud.

As you can see, the disaffected Dems see Obama's campaign in precisely the same light as the Obamites see Hillary's campaign--as deceitful and crooked. I sadly agree with them on that matter. Reality is a mirror image of what the Obamites say.

Please note: I do NOT agree with the commenter's list of options. In no way do I encourage anyone not to vote Democratic. I'm posting this because it shows us the cataclysmic schism Obama's "politics of unity" has opened in the party.

[CaptJasHook]

243. You wouldnt know a point of order if it was stuck in your eye.

Explain to me how Obama stole an election?

You can't, because he didn't. He played by the rules, unlike your candidate.

It takes a fanatic to believe the things you post. Who has drunk the Kool Aid now?

[palindrome]

211. K&R thanks for another non-Obamanaut post on DU.

100000 more and we'll be at 1% here

[Perry Logan]

213. !!!

[Guaranteed]

212. Simply wrong. Clinton has been shit for years.

Clinton's problems came first. They are what made her lose DESPITE her name recognition. No, it wasn't Obama worship THEN Clinton hatred.


Honestly- I have NO IDEA why any of Clinton's people support her. There is no reason for it whatsoever. She has failed us and failed us and failed us.

[Perry Logan]

214. You would flunk a simple quiz on Hillary's accomplishments.

[Guaranteed]

215. Well I know what the answer to question #1 would be:

True- she voted for the IWR.

And deliberately and repeatedly distanced herself from those against the invasion, supported Bush's policies- for years.


That's more than enough for me. Unlike some, I don't forget things that are so important.

[CaptJasHook]

218. The Reclusive Leftist is a Hillary Feminist with no credentials

As a matter of fact, according to her website, she isn't even alive, she is a dead fictional character. But putting that aside, she is a just another Hillary supporter with an axe to grind.

FAIL

[Deep13]

299. Your candidate has no credentials!

Jesus Christ! :eyes:

[EFerrari]

224. You wouldn't know misogyny if it fell on your head, Perry.

Is that ALL you have? Ungrounded charges of sexism? How disgusting.

[bvar22]

225. LOL!!! Once again the OP proves that Hillary is right......

Her base IS the Low Information Voter !


From the website referenced by the OP:

I still don’t have regular internet access and I don’t watch TV, so I’m out of the loop. But I hear things — weird, disturbing, almost unbelievable things — and so I’m grabbing a few minutes here on my Dad’s computer before a family birthday party ...

http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/

She's "out of the loop", doesn't watch TV, doesn't have Internet Access, but she is hearing weird disturbing things!.....
Time for a psych consult.

:rofl:

[geek tragedy]

228. Sour grapes from a Hillary cultist.

She can go to hell.

[earth mom]

229. Bingo! Awesome Post! Frankly, I see NO difference in Obama nuts and freepers.

I used to argue with freepers on a mixed left and right board and I saw the same thing there as I do here: No critical thinking, No reasoned arguments, No facts or Dismissal of facts, No examination of anything. Just TOTAL DENIAL of anything negative about their hero. It is blatantly obvious that the Obama nuts sole mission is to take out their enemy Hillary which they do with nasty lies, smears and shear hate, which IMO, is thinly veiled hate for all women.

DU has sunk to an ALL time low to allow the misogyny to continue as it has.


p.s. I bet Rove and * & Co are laughing their a$$es off on how they've played this one, since you KNOW they were behind the choice of the candidates through their control of the corporate media. Fucking Bastards that they are! :grr:

[swishyfeet]

238. There you go... we hate all women

Grow up.

We like Obama for plenty of good reasons; I'm sure there are plenty of good reasons you support Clinton.
You're not helping by continuing the sexism vs racism argument here.

[earth mom]

273. There goes that denial and finger pointing again.

Yeah, I've heard it all before from you Obama nuts who think Obama walks on water and can do no wrong, and that by association, neither can any of you.

Whatever. :eyes:

[emilyg]

232. K/R

[DemGa]

233. K & R

[Willo]

234. MI-SO-GYN-Y!

Speaker: Blah blah blah misogyny blah. Blah blah lots of misogyny.

Crowd: MI-SO-GYN-Y!

Speaker: Misogynistic misogyners misogynizing everywhere! This must end! Blah blah blah misog..misog..misog

Crowd: *silence* Massage?

Speaker: Yes! Massage shops are misognyistic too. Down with massage shops! Down with misogyny! Blah blah, extra thick misogyny.

Crowd: MISOGYNY! MASSAGE! MISOGYNY! MASSAGE!

Lone shout from the crowd: TWO PLUS TWO EQUALS FOUR!

Crowd: An Obamabot!

Speaker: Get out of here. Math is mysognyistic and is not based on reality. Blah blah blah misogynizing misogyny blah blah.

Crowd: MI-SO-GYN-Y!

[Exilednight]

239. I wish Hillary supporters could make up their minds. One says the far left is hijacking the .......

party with the Obama nomination, and others think we're rethugs.

If you're going to use a talking point, can you at least get on the same page?

[ladywnch]

241. I'm 50, white, female and believe Hillary is the most divisive campaign and

the most destructive for the democratic party I've ever seen. So much for your analysis.

[JoFerret]

242. "An orgy of male bonding"

...that (temporarily) transcends race and draws in loads of women who are afraid not to be a part of it.
Hey - how about them Mets? (or Sox? or Yanks? or whatever.)
Sounds about on target to me. (As a partial truth at least.)
All very convenient.

[Ken Burch]

245. Why can't you accept that an establishment candidate who sits on corporate boards

simply can't be a progressive president? That's the issue for me. You know as well as I that once you've taken Sam Walton's money you can't be on the side of the workers or the poor.

And why can't you accept that a politician who treats activists with contempt can't be worthy of progressive support?

I don't worship Obama. It's just that he's the one who wouldn't order protesters teargassed.

How can YOU give such unquestioning trust to anyone who helped build the DLC? Why doesn't that bother you?

[Zosima]

278. You have made an excellent point

You've probably seen this article already. If you haven't, it's worth reading. This appeared in The Nation almost a year before the Mark Penn situation finally blew up in her face.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070604/berman

I would have loved to vote for Hillary - who knows, maybe I still will this November - but I would rather support a candidate who was not an early supporter of NAFTA and then lied about it during the campaign. And of course, there's her vote on the IWR. Of course, all of us misogynists feel the same way...

[amelia]

246. OBAMA SUPPORTERS HAVE VERIFIED THE OP BY THEIR STANDARD RESPONSES

(Clap, clap, clap, clap)Thank you for proving the author right! No argument was needed because you fell into line, as usual.

[Hissyspit]

254. I think most people don't want to waste their time arguing against it because it's a crock of shit

and not worth the effort.

[Deep13]

294. Pretty much. Just knee-jerk, hateful reactions. nt

[maxomai2]

252. The DailyKos lie

It’s no secret, I think, that most of the liberal blogosphere has become a one-note 24/7 Obama rally. People who support Hillary, particularly women, have been relentlessly insulted, silenced, even banished from sites like DailyKos. The nastiness of the Obama guys — most of them are guys — is breathtaking.

Banished from DailyKos, you claim?

Well, no, actually, they weren't. The Hillbots left of their own accord after Alegre called for a strike:

I’ve decided to go on "strike" and will refrain from posting here as long as the administrators allow the more disruptive members of our community to trash Hillary Clinton and distort her record without any fear of consequence or retribution. I will not be posting at DailyKos effective immediately. I will not help drive up traffic or page-hits as long as my candidate – a good and fine DEMOCRAT - is attacked in such a horrid and sexist manner not only by other diarists, but by several of those posting to the front page.

More on this silliness here and here.

Will Clinton's supporters now be honest enough to admit that Recursive Leftist is wrong about this?

[amelia]

255. How do you know that no one was banished?

[maxomai2]

280. It's upon the accuser...

...to provide the evidence.

Namely, I'm waiting for someone to prove that they were kicked out of Daily Kos for supporting Clinton -- not that they left of their own accord like alegre, not that they were duly troll-rated into oblivion for lying and for other trolling behavior a la ClintB and jtorres138.

And quite frankly, the fact that Barry in MIA is still posting there kinda tells me nobody will be able to prove that.

[Janeite]

256. Pie

[madrchsod]

258. do you have apple or cherry?

[madrchsod]

259. check comment 59

i`d say that poster is sane....but maybe not since he disagrees with the author of this article

[Elspeth]

260. This is EXACTLY what we've been seeing here at DU

ANd when you're a woman who doesn't give up, they put you on ignore. Ask my many buds here.

[iconicgnom]

261. OP is a Republican provocateur

Has to be - every post is a provocation, flamebait, anti-Democratic, taunting shit.

[ShadowLiberal]

268. Wrong, the problem is Hillary/Obama are TOO similar, look at the GOP for proof of this

The fact is Clinton and Obama are far too similar, and this is causing all of the nasty attacks among us that have little to do with policy. If you doubt me, just take a look back at the republican primary.

The republicans had social conservative Huckabee, who was unacceptable to the military and business wings of the party.

They had Mitt Romney who flip flopped on social issues and made conservatives suspicious, didn't have military/foreign policy experience, but was perfect for the business wing of the GOP.

There was John McCain, a good choice to the military part of the GOP, but viewed as a RINO plague by the business community, and even social conservatives (even though he has been a mostly consistent social conservative his whole career).

There was Rudy, unacceptable to social conservatives, but at least fairly acceptable to the business and military branches of the GOP.

There was Fred Thompson, the social conservative candidate.

Now take a look at Hillary, she's been consistent in supporting abortion rights and feminism, she's changed her opinion on a few issues like NAFTA, she's for a more hardline foreign policy approach.

And then there's Obama, he's also consistently supported abortion rights, I've seen and heard little evidence to suggest he doesn't support feminism, his opinion on NAFTA is somewhat in question from that one news story about what he said to the Canadian government in private according to reports, he's for a more somewhat more open foreign policy approach, but he's toughening it up recently.

Yeah, do either candidates really sound that different to you? What wing of the democratic party, other then Hillary/Obama supporters, will be pissed if one of them gets the nomination and feel that the candidate is an unacceptable choice for the issues they care most about? Are NAFTA opposers going to think one is dead set against it and another is all for it? No. Are abortion right's people going to think that we nominated a candidate who will nominate prolife justices to the Supreme Court? No. Are gays going to feel that they're ignored while the other candidate would have given them gay marriage? No.

The biggest difference between the two is foreign policy, and even their opinions on that are merging more lately.

[Wetzelbill]

275. This is a great example of how it works both ways.

As a neutral observer, this is typical of a Hillary supporter complaining about how "O-nuts", "Obamabots", "Obamites" etc engage in destructive, insulting and Republican type behavior. The problem is you just did the exact type of behavior that you complain about.

Sure you can find a great many insults about Hillary from Obama supporters. Definitely. But you can find a helluva lot of Hillary supporters who insule Obama too. And as far as I know, Obama has never insulted Hillary's supporters, while she directly has mocked his before. It all goes both ways. Each side typically doesn't even see their own questionable tactics, they just like to rail against any perceived slight against their candidate like it's the end of the world.

Everything isn't tied to racism against Obama or sexism against Hillary. Most of the conflict consists of biased supporters making a big deal out of anything. In this mode anything the candidates, their campaigns, and their supporters say can be perceived as racist or sexist depending on who you support. Does some racist and sexist elements exist in this race? Sure. But a lot of it is made up too. And if Obama's supporters engage in Republican style politics, there is no doubt that Hillary herself engages in it even worse. She runs her campaign just like a Republican, which is one reason why I couldn't bring myself to vote for her, even though I slightly agree on policy more with her than Obama. I couldn't vote for him either, but at least he have a campaign that runs like it is following the Karl Rove handbook.

[scarletwoman]

282. "...this is what the real world is saying about this mess"

Question: By what criteria is the reclusiveleftist blog the "real world", as opposed to DU?

Peace,
sw

[ElboRuum]

307. QUIT MAKING SENSE!!!!

He/she will never be able to make his/her point if you don't stop that.

[depakid]

283. The sexism or gender baiting ruins what are otherwise a couple of observations I've heard IRL

that have some merit.

[raebrek]

287. quit it n/t

[Perry Logan]

291. "Unity" is to Obama's campaign as "fair and balanced" is to Fox News.

Here's yet another typical comment. Looks like we've got a war, my friends:

The state in which we Democrats find ourselves today is surreal. This is my letter to the Democratic Party and fellow Democrats. I will not leave my party but I will not vote for its presidential nominee if that person is Obama. I will vote for McCain. I will vote for Democrats who have supported HRC. Anyone tainted with Clinton Derangement Syndrome and Obamania will not receive my vote and I will work actively to cause them to lose their elected office. I will become an activist within my local party and I will take back my party. I will make sure that HRC is recognized as the First Leader within the rescued remains of that Democratic Party. I will not rest until the people responsible for this insane turn of events are outed and they apologize and make amends for their stupidity or they agree to quietly leave the Democratic Party and form their own party which they can name whatever ridiculous name they think most aptly describes the politics of self inflicted wounds and the audacity of arrogance.

[Deep13]

293. WITCH !!!! You must burn for blaspheming the sacred name of Obama!

I'd recommend except the time limit has passed.

[PATRICK]

297. Tear out the GOP flaming

and there is nothing left in that article that is not the usual GOP demonization of the leading candidate and that candidate's supporters. What it says about Hillary supporters is equally pernicious in case that is not noticed as well. The grain of truth and the usual real weakness in us all is rubbed in our eye with a Rove fist.

No thank you. I think Hillary has received more votes than from fearful angry women and liberal haters. Obama's supporters are likewise not the cartoon mob depicted.

[SeaLyons]

300. K&R

Kicked for truth..

[Deep13]

301. The unpleasant feeling you are experiencing while reading the OP...

...is called cognitive dissonance. It is the effort of your brain to protect your preconceived ideas from contrary facts. It is the same feeling that religious people get when confronted with facts contrary to their beliefs.

[ElboRuum]

306. Actually, the unpleasant feeling is in my stomach...

...and I don't keep my brain, and therefore, my cognitive dissonance, there. I keep my gastric acid and anything I may have ingested there. I think the unpleasant feeling is from having just injested the idea that Hillary's loss isn't her own fault, but is actually the work of a brainwashed cult of crazies.

Since this accusation is just the ramblings of yet another in a long line of poor sports who support a poor sport, there's not much substance behind it, mostly just hot air.

Aha. I just injested a heaping helping of hot air. BUUUUURRRRRRRP. Ah, there, much better.

[Danger Mouse]

317. i think nausea would be a better description for it.

[Politicalboi]

302. Simply Unbelievable

It's mostly Hillary's actions that turned them off to her. Not Obama or the media. Most here would have supported her had she not been one of the boy's and voted for war. But through the campaign SHE is the one that has been destructive. So now kick back and listen to Ray Charles sing America and dispel some rumors that have been spewed by Hillary, Hillbots and RepubliCONS.

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=1b603a

[ElboRuum]

305. And this proves... what... precisely?

That someone disagrees? Oh, that's shocking, this being America and all.

Why would anyone give a wet slap about this?

Some of it smacks of tired old generational disrespect. Callow youth? Wow, a Boomer insulting a member of a younger generation. What has this world come to? Never heard of THIS before.

All of it raises no mirrors. Always beware those who are unaware or unconcerned that they resemble their own remarks.

Meh. Believe what you want. Maybe there is a vicious Obama cult locking horns with the vicious Hillary cult. I couldn't give one slippery flip about one 60 year old's opinion. Hell, I couldn't give a flip about all of them. I've made my choice. So has everyone else. So please add this little ignorant screed to the massive pile we already have. Maybe if we put enough of them together, it will gain enough mass to form a tear in space-time and suck this worthless little planet full of idiotic, vacuous little balls of predatory instinct foolish enough to believe that they have sentience into the breach so we can no longer pollute the universe with this sort of tragic stupidity.

[Perry Logan]

312. It made no sense for the Clintons to play the race card. But it makes perfect sense for Obama...

Sane readers have long ago realized that playing the race card would be the last strategy the Clintons would try.

But of course, absurd accusations are the Obamites' stock in trade.

By contrast, it makes absolute sense that Obama's gang (known for their more-Rovean-than-Rove dirty tactics) would play the race card. It was their only chance to catch up with Hillary.

To give credit where it's due, the ploy worked. Unfortunately, it has utterly screwed the party for the foreseeable future.

But what were they gonna do? They had to do it...so they did it. Some audacity, huh?

[LiberalLovinLug]

313. Are you Insane!?

You're right, those 'sane' readers long ago realized it would be foolish for Clinton to play the race card. And that is why 'sane' readers have abandoned Clinton - because astonishingly she or members of her campaign actually DID.

Bill's Jesse Jackson remarks, like all black men are the same
Ferraro's Obama is so lucky he's a black man, like he has no other qualities
The Entitled One with her 'hard working WHITE voters' comment, like blacks are not hard working

You throw out these statements. Mirror statements as you would call them.
Where are your examples of Obama displaying misogynistic behavior? He hates all women. riiiiiiiiight.
Tell that to his wife.

You accuse his 'gang' as being known for "their more-Rovean-than-Rove dirty tactics" WTF??
This is some well known fact? So the candidate that ran on Hope and Unity and trying to stay above gutter politics has been actually sabotaging his own path to the WH by playing dirty? And I will await your links to those tactics he has employed that come anywhere near as close to the damage that Karl Rove has done to the country.

She admitted to a 'kitchen sink' approach. At least admit that she played that out. And you accuse him of utterly screwing the party? He's won unless Hillary can dig up some truly nasty info and use it on him, or he gets assassinated like Bobby. This is what you Hillbots are hoping for.

He has run a decent campaign. And she has not. That is the reason she is winning, not that Obama hates women, or Obama is whining about being black. Obama supporters have actual evidence of her disgusting behavior, you do not for your 'mirror' arguments against him.

[quaker bill]

314. The op above was your answer

[quaker bill]

315. This op is a classic

While I am just a little bit to young to have made it to Woodstock, I have been on the left wing for longer than I would guess most here have been alive. I was working for farmworker rights when Caesar Chavez was first organizing UFW locally and got to meet him.

Being in the liberal movement during the early 1980's was no fun at all. We were losing on almost every front daily and nearly everywhere I went they were playing Brush Lintballs on the radio. I recall protesting Reagan and Bush fundraisers sometimes in crowds of 2 or 3.

Nonetheless, we maintained an effort and a small community of activists, we raised funds for a war orphanage in Nicaragua, protested deployment of Trident and Pershing Nukes. A good number of us were arrested at these protests and at the gates of the School of the Americas, where they were training the central american death squads.

At times we got to chatting. A consistent theme in this depressed and losing movement, was that our opponents were "deluded" or "not too smart", of course we were wrong, but it was comforting and self-affirming to think that way. Ultimately most of us figured out that this was a self-defeating rationalization.

This stupid meme of Obamania has exactly the same characteristics. It relies on a catagorical questioning of the judgement and rationality of anyone who has come to a different conclusion. The targets of such derision do not take it well, and generally find the person offering it up to be an elitist. This is not a way to "make friends and influence people".

What it happens to be is a great way to gather in a small, tight, and exclusive circle and self-gratify. Have fun with that, given it is your quest. From your repeated deadender posts, it seems to be.

[LiberalLovinLug]

321. You call yourself a liberal?

Sounds like you have all the honorable past contributions. Good for you. But that makes it all the more puzzling why you and others are so against the presumptive Democratic nominee. You should be able to differentiate between a few over-the-top Obamaniacs on boards and the man himself.

What is the 'stupid meme of Obamania again? Anyone who is for Obama is an Obamanic and relies on questioning judgment and rationality of anyone who has come to a different conclusion? I just find it puzzling that any Democrat could actually back Hillary after her scorched earth campaign. And that y'all have such a cynical and suspicious attitude towards Obama's intentions. Is it that he must be too good to be true? That after years of the Reich Wing in charge, how can we actually have such a different direction available to us? Someone who doesn't take working lobbiest's money, unlike Hillary and McSame, someone not as entrenched in the Washinton machine, someone who inspires young people and new voters?

Of course we are going to get excited about a candidate like that. You want to claim that we are maniacs for being enthusiastic about that?

and FYI we are not a small, tight, and exclusive circle. We are happy, excited, and optimistic about President Obama coming soon and would dearly love NOT to have to defend Obama against Hillary's kitchen sink strategy. Because whenever we do, it is called attacks by the Hillamaniacs.

Puzzling.

[Danger Mouse]

316. you have no right to talk since you accused obama of 'buttfucking the party'.

that was pretty much the most ridiculous thing i've ever read on du, and i was around for RepublicanDad.

[tledford]

320. Why does hating Hillary==misogyny?

I don't hate her, by the way, although I voted for Obama in the NC primary. I am disturbed by her sabre-rattling, however (talk of the obliteration of 70MM+ people).

From what I can tell on this forum, many of the people who violently disapprove of Hillary don't signal *any* kind of misogyny.

I think we've just got some extraordinarily thin-skinned people on this forum. "Oh, he says Hillary should drop out of the race, he must hate women!" Huh? Say what now?

[Jakes Progress]

324. So good.

I'm sorry that I only visit DU every few days here. You rarely read anything new - Just "Hillary Sucks, dude" all day, every day. It is so nauseatingly dumb that i only come every few days for the very few intelligent posts (Some Clinton, some Obama). So I missed being able to recommend.

As I read elsewhere, the SD's were put in place to put on the brakes if we started sliding into another of our occasional lapses of intelligence in nominating. It looks like they won't be able to protect us. We'll have to hope that people somewhere in charge have more brains and more concern for the country than the zealots (Remember that Judas Iscariot was a Zealot.) At the very least we need a unity party if we hope to have a chance of changing anything in the country.

Though it is tantamount to heresy (hell, it is heresy here) to say so, the only thing that will make this better is for Barack to beg Hillary to be VP, and light into his macho network of blog thugs with some of his fiery rhetoric. He needs to tell them to shut up and grow up, that the crap they are doing is not what he stands for. If he doesn't, then it is proof that he is all hot air when it comes to wanting change and a "better way". For a long time I wanted to believe that he meant what he said, that he had the makings of a decent man. But his failure to step up is convincing me more and more that he is no better than the nastiness that is done in his name.

I didn't say I wouldn't vote for him if he is the nominee. I'm from Texas and I have held my nose more than once to vote Democratic. I can do it again, but I fear it will be as futile as my votes for Humphrey, McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry. I'm tired of voting for candidates what have been selected with blindfolds on. In my over four decades of voting, the only winners have been Johnson, Carter, and Clinton. That this party now wants to turn on the only Democrat to have taken the White House in thirty years is obscene - obscene and stupid. Sure Gore won - but if he had campaigned with Clinton he would have been in the Oval Office for the last 8 years.

[LucyParsons]

326. I'm a feminist and I can't stand Hillary Clinton

I am so tired of having to say this; I am going to ignore these threads in future.

[Damian the LHP]

327. Pure and utter garbage.

Then again, what do I expect from an increasingly rabid, ever-shrinking, nearly-religious group of people who, realizing the futility of their campaigning, have to resort to an array of smears, dirty tactics, and outright lies?

Hillary Cultists are starting to sound one hell of a lot like the Paul Cultists - or the Right Wing Kool-Aid Drinkers.

[Evergreen Emerald]

332. Exactly!

Excellent article on the truth of what is happening in America.

[Honeycombe8]

334. I looked for one example in that opinion piece of any sexist remark.

There wasn't one.

It's easy to claim, with a broad brush, that so and so is sexist and has committed misogynistic acts and statements. Very easy. But it's very easy to disbelieve such broad statements, when there are no examples cited.

This is, however, an example of a hateful article toward Obama and his supporters. Here are examples of THAT:

"the nastiness....of the Obama guys" (I'm a woman)
"Supporting Obama gives them license to hate Hillary" (WTF?)
"It’s a license to engage openly, enthusiastically, in misogyny of the most feverish kind." (notice that no examples are given; and it is a hateful depiction of a group of people)
"Finally they’re free to engage in the crazed heart-racing hatred that only the guys on the right have been able to enjoy."
Obama supporters are "gullible"
Obama supporters are under "cult-like adulation"
Obama supporters are participating in "frantic misogyny"
Obama supporters insist "that anyone who disagrees is The Enemy Who Must Be Destroyed — the whole batshit crazy package has arrived." (notice that no examples or cites are given; notice that this is, I think we'd all agree, an inflaming statement)
Obama supporters are "trash talking supporters"
Most Obama supporters don't know his positions on issues. (blatantly false statement)
"I have said several times in the past few weeks that arguing with Obama supporters is like arguing the theory of evolution with creationists. They throw up an argument, you refute it. They throw up another, you refute that one." (notice, again....no examples given)


The author of the initial post should be ashamed he posted such drivel from a bizarre site. It's not in keeping with the rules of DU to treat others respectfully and not cite to inflammatory statements.

This article I think proves the opposite of what the author intended. It shows how low some Hillary supporters will go, esp. when viewed with other similar posts, citing opinion pieces by other Hillary supporters that are particularly vicious and not on point with the primary.