Obama supporters:

[Sapphire Blue]

Please answer honestly.

If Senator Clinton had more pledged and super delegates, but it was possible (though highly unlikely) for Senator Obama to win the nomination, would you be calling for Senator Obama to drop out of the race?

I ask this as an Edwards supporter who wishes that he had stayed in the race regardless of his delegate count, and as someone who tries to see the other side.

And before you jump all over me: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6133183


Indigo Blue (Sapphire Blue's daughter)

[JimGinPA]

1. Had He Lost 12 Contests In A Row He Would Have Dropped Out With Dignity...

Unlike some.

[Sapphire Blue]

20. You make a good point; one that's hard for a candidate's supporter (I'm talking about myself here)

... to see when we feel heartbroken by our candidate dropping out. I was really hoping that Edwards would be the nominee AND the next president. I wanted him to stay in. Period. I can understand why Clinton's supporters feel so strongly about her staying in the race. The decision needs to be hers, though, just as it was John's.

[Tom Rinaldo]

49. John Edwards lost 11 straight contests in a row in 2004 and continued to challenge Kerry

...even though he had only won one primary by that point. There wasn't anyone yelling at John Edwards to get out of the race in 2004, and he was much further behind John Kerry than Hillary Clinton was behind Barack Obama at the same point.

I posted the following on DU on February 28th:

Flashback: 2004 Democratic Presidential Race - 4 Years Ago

At this point in time, in the 2004 contest for the Democratic nomination for President, four Democratic Candidates remained in the race; John Kerry, John Edwards, Dennis Kucinich, and Al Sharpton. With March 2 2004 Super Tuesday approaching, John Kerry had already won 18 out of the 21 contests already held, having lost only in the District of Columbia, South Carolina, and Oklahoma. Senator Kerry was on a bit of a roll at this point, having won the previous 11 contests. All 11 of those victories were by margins of 15% or above, with the sole exception of Wisconsin, where Kerry won by a 6% margin. Over half of Kerry's victories during this run (6) were by margins of over 20%.

On February 28th 2004, none of John Kerry's remaining Democratic opponents had won more than a single primary or caucus in the entire 2004 race, compared to Kerry's 18 total victories by that date. Still, no Democratic Candidate was being pressured to leave the race by forces external to his own campaign, and Senator John Edwards in particular continued to maintain hope of winning the Democratic nomination for President. The media continued to regard Senator Edwards as a serious contender to win the Democratic nomination.

Senator Edwards finally withdrew from the 2004 race for President after the results of March 2 2004, which showed him losing to John Kerry in all ten of the contests held that day. John Kerry won nine of those, and Howard Dean (who had already left the race by that date) won his home state of Vermont.

[JimGinPA]

50. Okay, Point Taken But March 2nd < June 4th

:shrug:

[Tom Rinaldo]

52. I think the race should end June 4th or very soon thereafter

But there were plenty of people calling for Clinton to leave the race in late February this year based on Obama's winning streak, saying that NO OTHER DEMOCRAT would have been given the charity of still being taken seriously as a candidate after a string of losses like she suffered in February. That was patently false, since Edwards was still being taken seriously at the same point under even worse circumstances four years earlier. In the contests that followed February, Hillary Clinton went on to win more pledged delegates than Obama. So I think she earned the right to stay in the race, but in my opinion she still fell short of what she needed to do to make a persuasive enough case to SD's to back her as the eventual nominee. And I agree with those who say that the SD's should now declare in the week after the last primary votes are cast.

[NotThisTime]

54. Bingo.... He would have left with dignity and grace

[JoFerret]

64. And to some - folded his tent

and packed it in early. Not willing to go the distance.

[Bicoastal]

2. Honestly? YES. I like Hillary (though not as much as O) and had she been our party's choice...

...I would have welcomed her nomination, and would be angry that Obama was preventing our GE matchup from transpiring.

[BlooInBloo]

3. We wouldn't have to. He'd have already bowed out.

[dchill]

6. We wouldn't have to. He'd have already bowed out.

"

[reflection]

4. You better believe it. n/t

[grantcart]

5. If he was making statements like "she can't win the GE" I would be writting her a check

for her campaign.

[Connie_Corleone]

7. Not if he had lost 11 contests in a row.

I would've been calling for him to get out of the race on March 1st.

Considering my candidate is more level-headed, Obama would've gotten out of the race without being told to.

[FrenchieCat]

8. If the math made it impossible to win based on the rules

set up by the National Democratic Party, yes, I would want him to step down.

I wouldn't want him to utter anything about June Assassination dating back to 1968 to establish somekind of timeline that ended up being simple spin. Also, I wouldn't want him stating that Hillary has problems with certain voters, nor would I want him making statements that McCain was better than Hillary.

I like Sen. Obama a lot, but I'm not in love with him. He is a politician who advocate policies that I agree with for the most part, as well as I enjoy his stated approach as to how he would get things "done" for we the people for a change.

But at the end of the day, it is my children's future that is key....not a politician's future or personality.

[DevonRex]

9. If he were in exactly the same situation as Hillary is now, YES. nt

[Drunken Irishman]

10. Obama would have suspended his campaign the second he lost Wisconsin.

Even if he knew there was a chance in Ohio, Texas and PA, he probably would have bowed out back then. It would have been hard to accept, but I would have.

[AllentownJake]

11. Run up to June 3rd

Can finish out the race till June 3 however I would expect a high minded campaign attacking John McCain not the other candidate or that candidate's chances to win in the fall. Those cases can be made privately to SD they don't have to be aired publicly since all they are is opinion not facts.

Also no whining about why they were behind. I'd expect him to take the blame for the loss. I'd also expect him to say positive about our chances in the fall and about other democrats and not pick fights with the media.

[raebrek]

12. quit it n/t

[sandnsea]

13. He'd have been out on March 1

If he'd performed the way Hillary did in Jan and Feb. Your question is why is she being treated differently than he would have been.

And before you answer, she lost March too.

[Sapphire Blue]

31. No, that's not my question, but I can see how you might think that.

My question was more about the supporters and how they feel than about the candidates' treatment. I've gotten some thoughtful replies, and appreciate them.

[Hope And Change]

14. Yes.

[rucky]

15. It's not so much about staying in the race...

it's what's said and done during the process, and how it affects our party's chance at success.

I don't think anybody would object to Hillary staying in if she wasn't being so disruptive.

If Hillary would just let the DNC do its job, and focus full-guns on McCain - and Obama returned the favor - there wouldn't be a problem.

[DAGDA56]

16. Delegates are the method for determining a winner...and based on your

scenario, I would say pretty much what I am saying now; let the primaries finish, right through Puerto Rico, and then waste no time in uniting behind the Senator. (I would have hoped candidate Obama would have dropped out before this point, but let's assume he did not.)

[graywarrior]

17. He would have done so already.

It's about the us in USA not Hillary or Barack.

[Ganja Ninja]

18. If it were as mathematically unlikely as it is for Hillary then I would

be calling on him to drop out.

[JerseygirlCT]

19. Well, I'm not calling for her to drop out, but I do dislike the

way she's behaved during this campaign. The ugly stuff, the lauds to McCain at Obama's expense - all of it - that's what I find unacceptable.

If she wants to hang in there, touting her strengths and talking about her vision for the future - go for it as far as I'm concerned. If she wants to tear down the person who will almost surely be our nominee in some strange attempt to have that make her look better? Stupid for her, bad for us, bad for the country.

I'd say the same were the positions reversed.

[gateley]

21. Yes. Although as others have stated,

I doubt he would still be forging ahead at this point.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

Yes. But I don't think he would have been able to drag it out as long as Hillary has anyway.

I think if their positions were reversed his financing (and credit) would have dried up much sooner.

[LSK]

22. this former Edwards supporter says stay in until the last primary

Then please get out afterwards. Do not let this go on all summer.

[TeamsterDem]

23. Yes. eom

[graycem]

24. I sincerely believe

that he would've gracefully suspended his campaign and gotten behind the nominee. I also believe even if he hadn't done that, he would've been mocked out of the race by everyone involved. I really believe what has carried Hillary now is the Clinton name. People are more willing to give her a chance to be "the comeback kid."

[AtomicKitten]

25. If Obama had lost 12 contests in a row, he would have dropped out.

The fact that the Clintons consider themselves special and above the rules is the exception to the normalcy of this process.

[lisa58]

26. Yes...

...if Clinton won 11 straight primaries - no one would have expected Obama to hang on - his money would have dried up and he cannot lend himself millions.

[anigbrowl]

27. I think he'd have dropped out long ago if he lost 10 in a row.

Or if he was still in it to make a case at the convention, I would expect his campaign to be very much on the merits and not touch personal politics whatsoever.

[Sapphire Blue]

36. That seems to be the most frequent response to my question, but my question was based on the premise

... that he was not dropping out. Which, I suppose was an unlikely premise.

"Or if he was still in it to make a case at the convention, I would expect his campaign to be very much on the merits and not touch personal politics whatsoever." An excellent point, anigbrowl! I wonder if there would be such an outcry against Senator Clinton if she had taken that route?

[Spazito]

40. There would have still been some calls but had her campaign...

been very much on the merits and not on the personal politics the outcry would have been much more muted, imo.

There have been previous posts by Obama supporters saying they didn't have a problem with Hillary staying in if she focused on her strengths and focused her attacks on McCain and not Obama.

[Lady-Damai]

28. Obama would have dropped out....

He is not delusional like HRC.

[Cant trust em]

29. Once the writing is on the wall, the candidate should drop out.

That's really the bottom line.

[Renew Deal]

30. Obama probably would have been gone already.

And it wouldn't be practical for him to be around at this point.

[Texasgal]

32. Yes I would.

Sometimes you must do what is best for the party.

[hfojvt]

33. if their positions were reversed, he would already be conceding

for one thing, he is financially unable to lend his campaign 11.4 million dollars like his opponent can. Second, it would obviously do him no good to stir up things in Michigan and Florida.

A long time ago, I asked the question "what it if was Edwards?" and was mostly ignored. I said I would probably still be hoping for an Edwards comeback, but would not be cheering on a dishonest, scorched earth campaign.

[BklynChick]

34. at this point in the game and with the damage done, I would say yes

[Sapphire Blue]

37. "the damage done" That's what it comes down to, isn't it?

[JVS]

35. That depends on if he has been throwing the kitchen sink.

[DevonRex]

38. He would have dropped out long ago.

[Cha]

39. It's not hilary's "staying in" ..it's her documented lies that have

hurt the process. hilary is getting hiosted on her own petard but I take no pleasure in that. It would have so much better to have John Edwards staying in and hilary getting eliminated in the beginning since all she can do is lie, panderer, cheat, and bring up RFK's assassination in June repeatedly as a talking point if not a tactic.

Obama has run a positive, stellar campaign and he is the winner.

[juajen]

57. Bullshit!

[endarkenment]

41. yes nt.

[iconicgnom]

42. yes. It's hard to imagine another candidate doing what Hillary is doing.

[Gore1FL]

43. I haven't called for Clinton to drop out

but to run a more civilized campaign rather than one of division.

To answer what I really think you are asking, I would recognize it was over. I can say that with great comfort as I have never gotten the candidate of my choice in any primary season (at least when a re-election was not happening.)

I did find myself in the Clinton supporter's shoes in 1984 when I held out hope for Gary Hart all the way to the convention. AS I look back, I see that as a mistake now--the same one I see many CLinton supporters making now.

[Sapphire Blue]

45. Recognizing it's over. Yes, that's it. And that's a hard thing to do.

I still wish...

[Gore1FL]

48. It is hard

I held out hope this year for an Edwards Super Tuesday come from behind victory.

I held out hope in 2004 tha Dean would come back.

In 2000 I wanted Bill Bradley.

In 1992 I couldn't beieve it when Harkin dropped after NH.

I wanted Jackson or Babbit in 1988.

I wanted Hart in 1984.

It is crushing when your first choice is gone from the pool. It's hard to accept. I get it!

But there does come a time to recognize it is over. I've been through the grief cycle enough in my life to put nomination phases into perspective. It wasn't a hard struggle to move to Obama from Edwards, but a struggle.

part of what I see happening is that Sen Clinton isn't making the grief transistion any easier for her supporters.

[Sapphire Blue]

53. I went through so many emotions after Edwards dropped out...

... everything from disappointment and grief to feeling betrayed. Betrayed because he said that he was in it till the convention. Then in the middle of a fundraiser... rumors... a speech in New Orleans... then nothing. That was the hardest part, the silence. And I didn't want either of the candidates who were left.

Then John met with each of them, discussed issues with them, asked them to keep the focus on poverty. They both agreed. Both of their campaigns started sounding more promising. And John signed on to lead the Half in Ten campaign. He may have given up his bid for the presidency, but he didn't abandon what was important, who was important.

Then came rumors of his endorsing Obama. Michigan. John's speech. Obama's speech. The commitment to ending poverty. The strength that emanated from both of them. At that moment I embraced Obama as my candidate.

But I still wish...

[Hippo_Tron]

44. Yup, but to be fair it's a bit different becuase Obama is only 46

This was Hillary's only really good chance. I can understand that her supporters may be having a hard time coping with the fact that she lost and most likely won't get another shot. I really liked Kerry and when he lost in '04 I was sad not only because Bush was re-elected but because we'd never get to see the potential of a Kerry presidency.

[Bensthename]

46. Yes this is about delegates.. If the numbers werent there for him, then later on..

I would also be calling for him to stop and let the dems start concentrating on McCain.

[lojasmo]

47. No, but...

I'm not calling for Clinton to drop until all the contests are done.

[Sundoggy]

51. If it were only possible by deceit, then of course!...

Straw man. If it were only that simple.

[gort]

55. Yeah, if Hillary had closed the deal on Super Tuesday

I would've said fall in line and vote for Hillary.

Gore was my first choice, Edwards second, now I am for Obama.

Obama08

[CreekDog]

56. I'm not calling for Hillary Clinton to drop out

But I wish she would campaign in a way less harmful to the party's chances in November.

If Obama were in the same position as Hillary is now, I would be one of her supporters now.

I don't care if they stay in our get out, I care how they stay in or get out, if it's in a way that makes the entire party look better and the eventual nominee do better in November, then that's all that matters to me.

[Warren DeMontague]

58. The Primaries end on June 3rd. I think continuing beyond that would be unwise.

I think there's value in getting the party unified behind the nominee BEFORE the convention.

If she wants to finish out the primaries, that's one thing- if she wants to raise a giant stink until the convention and try to tear this party apart with bogus claims of "winning the popular vote", that's something entirely different.

[Raine]

59. Yes I would and so would

everyone else, many more than are asking Hillary to drop out.

[pointsoflight]

60. I have no problem with anyone staying in the race...

...as long as they don't engage in dishonest tactics and put out misleading or even flat-out untrue statements that damage the frontrunner's chances in the GE. Highlighting policy differences and things like are one thing. Saying that the republican nominee would be a better commander in chief, calling your opponent an elitist, inferring your opponent is sexist, engaging in race baiting, and so on... that's unacceptable for one dem to do against another, especially when none of it is true.

[and-justice-for-all]

61. I miss Edwards!!!!

I would support whomever the Dem nominee is.

I also do not see any reason to drag the entire party down, HRC needs to be an adult and drop out with dignity.

[Sapphire Blue]

67. I hope you signed up at Half in Ten!

Half in Ten - A Campaign to Cut Poverty in the United States in Half in Ten Years: http://www.halfinten.org/

[Asgaya Dihi]

62. Same situation? Yes.

And a month or two ago. Since after Texas and them her odds have been long in a proportional system, it hasn't been near as close as it seems and for a long time now. At first she needed about as much in each remaining State, all of them, as she had got in her home State of Arkansas and nowhere else. Then she "won" a couple of primaries but not by enough so actually fell behind by more, Obama won some and she fell behind by more, and in the end it's been well past a long shot and nearing statistical impossibility for a long time now.

Given the same situation and same time spans, yeah. But I doubt we'd have had to ask him to leave the race. My bet is he would have when it became apparent that the cost of staying in was higher than reason could justify. Everyone else in the race but Clinton was mature enough to do exactly that, for our chances to win the next election I really wish she was too. She lost long ago.

[Indenturedebtor]

63. I was an Edwards Supporter myself

And though I was devastated when he made his concession speech, I was also proud to have backed a candidate who cared more for the greater good than for himself.

Obama would NEVER have run such a divisive no holds barred slimefest. That's the problem with her staying in... it's the tactic and the salt the earth strategy.

[tekisui]

65. It is not possible for Hillary to win. Had things been reversed, yes

Obama should have and would have dropped.

[DangerousRhythm]

66. If the situation were reversed? Absolutely, for the sake of party unity.

What I want is not as important as what the country needs, which is a Democratic president on January 20, 2009. What I want pales in comparison to what our troops need, which is to get the hell out of Iraq. Getting what I want, if I were to put it ahead of what's good for the nation, is a show of pure egotism. I couldn't do it. The Supreme Court and our Constitution are why my ego isn't nearly as important. Won't it be nice to have a president who doesn't inspire shame and embarrass us in front of the entire world? One who can actually pronounce the word nu-cle-ar? These are just some of my reasons but I'm sure I could think of a hundred more.

[Sapphire Blue]

68. Thank you and everyone who responded to my post.

I really appreciate everyone's honest, realistic, and thoughtful replies, and that they were mostly expressed without hatred toward Clinton. I hope with all my heart that we can all get past the hate and division, and focus on electing a Democratic president in November, who in all likelihood will be President Barack Obama.

[Orsino]

69. If he couldn't afford to stay in, I think so.

At a certain point, I'll be calling directly for Clinton's withdrawal--but I'm not demanding it yet. I only question why she continues to spend beyond her means for what can only be the faintest of hopes.

Heck, if she were a more progressive candidate, though, I might still be cheering her on.