What Happens If McSame Wins?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

That thought is too awful to even contemplate... Every metric inluding an unpopular war, unpopular president of the incumbent party, and a poor economy favors the Democratic nominee for president yet he is running a competitive race...

[graywarrior]

1. He won't.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. That's How I Felt About Bush* In 00...I Was Less Sanguine About 04...

~

[graywarrior]

15. I have to lie out loud to myself.

It makes me feel better

[CanonRay]

2. Learn the words to "O Canada" as fast as you can.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. My Girlfriend Is From The Philippines But It's Too Damn Hot

~

[rurallib]

47. Good idea

Official Lyrics of O Canada!

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

[papapi]

4. Won't happen.

[frickaline]

6. Cry and curl up in fetal position for 4 years?

[Orsino]

7. There's no honest way for him to win.

Not even Americans are that dim...unless the MSM sings them completely to sleep.

[aquarius dawning]

11. "not even Americans are that dim".....just what do you mean by that?

[Orsino]

19. I mean that Americans are trained from birth to obey their TVs...

...and to cheer on the dismantling of the educational system that might have told them otherwise. Americans tend to be dim because they're told to be, and most of us are very obedient.

[aquarius dawning]

51. I find your tone to be condescending and typical of the elitist attitude that the Democratic party

is infamous for.

[Forkboy]

57. And being the "one who told you so" is what?

[aquarius dawning]

63. The name of the game.

[Forkboy]

69. The name of your game is immature.

And you're playing it well.

[iconicgnom]

72. I find your tone to be Republican to the core

[angie_love]

84. alot of hillary supporters have been turning repug lately.

so this is no surprise.

[Orsino]

73. I can't find an explanation for two * terms in which we get to claim we're smart...

...though I'm sure it would be more pleasant to hear.

I'm all ears. What've you got for us?

[smoogatz]

86. Well, they didn't do all that well in the national IQ tests of 2000 and 2004.

Lieberman looks like he could use a haircut in that picture, by the way.

[Mike L]

39. The average American voter is that dim. You saw it in 2004. em

[Orsino]

49. I know, I know, but...

...even the MSM has had to admit the multiple failures and resultant popularity plummeting of the * Administration. Duplicating 2004, I think, will be beyond even their best-coordinated abilities, after three more years of misery, failure and death.

Their fingers will be on the scale, though.

[aquarius dawning]

8. I'll be saying "I told you so" for about four years. nt

[Forkboy]

16. That's mature.

:thumbsup:

[ronnykmarshall]

60. There's so much more to fight for ...

see my sigline!

[Forkboy]

61. LOL

McCain is even more dangerous than they were. Imagine Godzilla with nukes and a hardon for war. :scared:

[Doityourself]

21. If the Dem nominee loses then if one is a true Dem, they lose too..what are you?

[aquarius dawning]

52. I'm the guy who told you so, that's what I am.

[greguganus]

48. I'll blame hillary for not getting out sooner. n/t

[Bucky]

9. Military contracts... for EVERYBODY!!!!

Life will be like a Garcia-Marquez novel... a hundred years of solitude.

[VolcanoJen]

10. Work like hell and organize. Support Obama with everything you have.

Rather than sit back and wonder what will happen, get out there and remind people what will happen if this country chooses a Third Bush Term.

[MethuenProgressive]

12. It means Obama lost.

Only way McCain wins is if we settle on Obama instead of the stronger candidate.

[Fovea]

18. Yeah, but Edwards suspended his campaign.

There is Hillary, but the Right Wing Noise Machine has been *triangulating* on her since '92. She has high negatives from the left and the right, and the middle aint that big no mo.

She is the only candidate they actually have plans to defeat. They've got 15 years of opposition research, audience tested and ready to dump on the electorate.

Most of their opp research on Obama has been sprung by HRC's campaign already.

Obama had not to my knowledge used the terms 'Whitewater' 'travelgate', or 'Vince Foster' so far. Rove will lack that critical bit of civility, IMO.

[Mike L]

45. They tried all that on Bill. He left office with a 65% approval rating, the highest end of office

rating of any President since WW II.

[Fovea]

55. And therefore, that sort of kitchen sink approach

will not work against any Dem this cycle.
It has already sank on Barack.

Thank you for invalidating the OP.

[Doityourself]

23. If Obama loses, then all Dems lose....what are you?

[MethuenProgressive]

25. I'm not an Obamacrat.

I'm a Democrat, just like the other 18 million who have voted for Senator Clinton - so far.

[Doityourself]

Nice dance..but if Obama is the nominee and he loses as a Dem, you lose too..or

don't you see it.

It would be the same if Hillary was the nominee, and she loses. All Dems would lose, not just one sector or group of the party.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I Am Not A Big Fan Of Obama But He Is Infinitely Preferable To McSame

I respect his service but he is as far right as Bush*...

[Doityourself]

30. Exactly. I'm no big fan of Hillary but she's better than McLame..so again I say, if the Dem nominee

loses, then all true Dems lose, no matter who it is...

Thank you for being reasonable and clear-headed.

[MethuenProgressive]

31. A sack of warm cow manure is preferable to John W. McCain.

And so, by that measure, I'll vote for BO if he's who we settle for.

[Doityourself]

43. As I will Hillary, as much as it would pain me down to my bone marrow!

[MNDemNY]

87. We must ride our "high horse" to defeat, it's democratic!

[John Q. Citizen]

13. What happenes if a super volcano erupts? What happens if an astroid hits earth?

What happens if bird flu mutates and billions of humans die in a few weeks?

What happens if...

Well, DSB, what happens?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. The Odds Aren't Exactly The Same

The odds of a McSame victory are about two in five...The odds of the other events occurring are unfathomable...I'm going to the gym soon...It would be like worrying a weight might fall on my head and kill me...

[John Q. Citizen]

41. Odds are we are all going to die. Astroids have already struck the earth. Super volcanos have

already erupted. Bird flus have already caused world wide epidemics.

So the odds are very good that those events will indeed happen.

McCain? Never happened before. I doubt it will happen.

I'm going to work hard to make sure Obama is elected. And not worry to much about that which I have no control over.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

91. I'm Back From The Gym And Alive

No weights dropped on my head...Twice I have dropped weights on my finger...Ow...

[Jackpine Radical]

14. How big does the "true vote" have to be

for an election to be unstealable? 10%? 15?

[Forkboy]

17. Keep plugging away until I can't plug away anymore.

[wvbygod]

20. Hillary will be blamed

I have yet to see any critical self thought from those fighting against her nomination.

[Max_powers94]

36. I will blamed her thats for sho

[suston96]

22. That won't happen if the Hillary Clinton supporters stay with the Democratic nominee. nt

[JVS]

26. Thank the thrower of the kitchen sink for creating disunity

[Douglas Carpenter]

28. It is not impossible...

Even if I take the Rasmussen Market prediction at fact value that the Democrats lead by Sen. Obama have approximately a 63% chance of winning the White House in November - that still leaves about a 37% possibility that McCain could win.

The only positive I can actually see in it is that there is no doubt that the world is going to be facing extremely difficulty economic problems for the next few years regardless who is in office. And Iraq and the Middle East is going to be an extremely complicated matter regardless of who is in office.

I suppose if (God Forbid) McCain wins - it will offer a great deal of opportunity to build the up the Democratic majority. And we can at least rest assured that the Republicans will be held responsible by the American public for the mess they created; and I'm afraid this mess is so big and so deep - it will be extremely hard to fix it - regardless who is in office. The Republicans will not be able to escape the blame.

[iconicgnom]

75. On the contrary, I see no positives in a McCain win.

There's nothing whatever positive about handing off a terrible situation to someonw who supported and enabled that situation - it'd only make a terrible situation so much worse. I see no way a McCain win could help build up a Democratic majority. An idea that in the event of a McCain win the Republicans couldn't escape the blame for their policies is an extremely poor consolation for the US economy tanking. And don't doubt it that even 4 yrs of McCain on top of 8 yrs of Bush would pull the floor right out from the US economy.

Really, this stuff shouldn't have to be explained

[Douglas Carpenter]

77. well of course, I know you're right

I'm just accepting that the unthinkable is possible. And how to deal with it - if this less than likely possibility were to happen

[slackmaster]

29. I have to say we'll be a whole lot better off than we have been for the last 89 months

With all due respect, I really can't accept the epithet "McSame" for John McCain.

The description "All hat, no cattle" fits George W. Bush perfectly in my opinion. McCain is a real man.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Ah

I respect his service to the country but he would move this country further to the right...I want to see it moved toward the center...

[slackmaster]

35. Even a move to the right by a SANE leader would be an improvement

I just can't imagine anyone screwing up everything as consistently as our present misadministration.

To paraphrase one of my favorite lines in The Big Lebowski:

Say what you want about the right, but at least it's an ethos!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. I would settle for a sane centrist like Ike or Bill Clinton

I don'r think more judges like Ailito and Roberts are the way to go...I'd be satisfied with even Sandra Day O'Connors or Potter Stewarts...

[Douglas Carpenter]

40. Even back in 2000 McCain was the first choice of Bill Kristol and a number of the leading neocons

they only moved toward George W. Bush when Sen. McCain's campaign collapsed .

Perhaps McCain is personally a nicer and more honorable person then George W. Bush. That wouldn't be difficult. Perhaps Sen. McCain is smarter then George W. Bush. So is my dog.

But when people think Sen. McCain is a moderate, what does that mean?
He accepts science and he does not believe in torture.

Has George W. Bush so debased our nation that simply believing in reason and agreeing that torture is bad - is now the definition of being a moderate?

This is a man who the neoconservative leaders orinally preferred to George W. Bush. This is a man who thinks the U.S. was right in Viet Nam and should have won a military victory there. This is a man who up to 2000 still refered to the people he fought in Viet Nam as gooks. This is a man who just some months ago thought it was a joke to sing, "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran."

[theboss]

94. Morality and legality of the war aside, I would prefer a McCain-led invasion of Iraq over a Bush-led

At the very least he would have had enough troops on the ground and a plan for the occupation.

Don't get me a wrong, I think a McCain presidency would be a disaster for the US, whether now or in 2000. Still...better than W.

[iconicgnom]

76. McCain is totally a puppet.

As was Reagan, as is George W.
And puppets don't set the agenda

[demokatgurrl]

33. The country goes straight to hell in a handbasket.

Oh, sorry, we already did that.

[Midwestern Democrat]

34. Well, fortunately, congress/governorships,etc will soften the blow a lot.

Losing the presidential race wasn't nearly as devastating before '94 - disappointing sure, but not quite as bleak an outcome. My own guesses, if we lose this year (which will be inexcusable):

1) Very competitive battle for DNC Chair
2) Total reform of the primary system
3) A very safe, very moderate candidate will likely be the nominee in '12

[Mike L]

37. 4 more years of the Iraq War. That's what is so bad about Obama getting the nomination.

He can't win the WH. Obama supporters have doomed us to 4 more years of war and possibly a future war with Iran.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. I Am Not Prepared To Say Obama Can't Win...It Is Too Early To Tell...

I can say with confidence a coulpe of things:

-(every)metric favors the Democratic nominee

-(every) political model that political scientists use to predict elections will favor the Democratic nominee

-for the Democratic nominee to lose in this political environment is unacceptable and would lead to a major reckoning for the party

[Mike L]

53. Right or Left? It seems that the far left will never learn that Independents pick the President

and they lean conservative. Is it possible for the Democratic Party to steer back to the center and nominate a centrist candidate?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. There Is Very Little Policy Difference Between Clinton And Obama

The election will come down to this... The Republicans will do their best to portray Barack Obama as being out of the mainstream... They were very successful in that strategy against Dukakis and Kerry, and somewhat successful against Gore...

If the Republicans can portray Barack Obama as being out of the mainstream and having contempt for American values as they are perceived by the majority of Americans he will lose... If they can not portray him as out of the mainstream he will win...

The Democrats will try to make this a referendum on George Bush and portray a McCain administration as a Bush* third term... The Republicans will try to make this a referendum on Obama's patriotism and embrace of traditional American values... Whoever is successful will win...

[Mike L]

66. I think this has already been established.........

"If the Republicans can portray Barack Obama as being out of the mainstream and having contempt for American values as they are perceived by the majority of Americans he will lose."

[Douglas Carpenter]

58. How on earth could a person be more "moderate" and "centrist"then Sen. Obama!?

What positions does Sen. Obama hold that are not "centrist" and in terms of actual positions on specific issues to the right of most rank-and-file Democrats?

[slackmaster]

59. By being Bill Richardson

But he's not charismatic enough for a majority of Democrats.

[Douglas Carpenter]

67. I would find Gov. Richardson acceptable also - given the realities as they are

but I do not see where he is noticeably either to the left or the right of Sen. Obama.

[iconicgnom]

81. In this political environment independents don't "lean conservative"

They want change. They want out of Iraq. They want fiscal responsibility, and they know that fiscal responsibility isn't identical to "lower taxes", esp. the kind of "lower taxes" that Bush and McCain promote. If independents don't vote overwhelmingly for Obama in the coming GE I'll be very surprised. Dems need not fear losing a "racist vote", or "sexist vote", because those demographics are hard-core Republican anyway, not independent.

[LeFleur1]

44. Do You Really Think Obama Will Get Us Out of Iraq?

I don't.
Every speech he gives he pulls further away from his original speeches about bringing the troops home immediately.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. Define Immediately

I don't think any president can leave Iraq without stablizing it whatever that means...It would be like the fire department leaving the scene of a fire without putting it out...

Blame the yahoos who got us into this mess...

[Mike L]

54. Yes, but it wouldn't be immediate.

The reality is that all hell would break loose there (yes, even worse than now). He wouldn't want to be blamed for that. It would probably take a couple of years to get out.

[Douglas Carpenter]

65. frankly I never believed that

Not because he wouldn't want to. That's hardly the question. Perhaps even George W. Bush would want to get us out of Iraq.

Although the 2003 conquest of Iraq went against the grain of established ideas of the realist school of the use of force, it so altered the realties and power balances in the Gulf - that even though it would have been correctly seen by foreign policy realist as against America's interest to invade in the first place - now the realities have so shifted that withdraw becomes by realist definition hazardous to American interest. There is simply no doubt that if we stay we are screwed and if we leave we are also screwed. There is no graceful exit possible either now or in the foreseeable future. Anymore than we can gracefully stay.

This is the classic lesson in the folly of empire; a self-created no-win situation.

I really don't expect President Obama to make peace with justice to reign on earth. I do expect that he will be following a policy more in the Brent Scowcroft, Bush Senior or Zbigniew Brzezinski mode which mixes the old style hawkish, "hard-nosed patriot" view of policy with a dash of liberal internationalism. This is not what I would like to see. But it is a lot, lot, lot less dangerous than the alternative. At least it has some predictability, some recognition of international law and international order - and it is not stark raving insane.

I am personally an anti-Imperialist. But that is not even on the radar of current mainstream political discussion. It will be as oil cost makes sustaining the unsustainable unacceptable if not impossible.

But in the mean time, when given the choice between the kind of proactive roughshod gunboat diplomacy advanced by the Neocons and their Democratic Party equivalents - I would rather chose the more cautious old-style hawks who at least are restrained by their definition of "national interest" than the crazy "visionary" "pseudo-utopians" of the neoconservative movement and their Democratic Party equivalents as exemplified by the Progressive Policy Institute or the New Republic, people who have no small influence with Sen. Clinton, but less influence with Sen Obama and will (I hope) have minimal influence when Sen. Obama becomes President.

I wish we had better alternatives that actually had a possibility of prevailing in the current political atmosphere. But we don't. It is a harsh reality that the closet thing to an effective peace movement in Washington that can actually effect policy besides soaring oil prices are the old style "national interest" hawks and "old style" liberal internationalist of the Pentagon, the CIA and the State Department That is the current political reality.

[L0oniX]

46. Doesn't matter. We're going to run out of gas and America is going down....

no matter who gets to play president.

[demokatgurrl]

64. Sadly, I am afraid you are right. We've already started.

Too late to save us. We had the chance in 2000, the LAST chance I'll wager.

[Mike L]

68. There will be gas, but more expensive gas.

That's actually good in the long run. Get those SUVs and full size pickup trucks off the road and reduce greenhouse gasses.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

62. We're McScrewed.

[Trajan]

70. It will please the Clintonites ...

Who will sulk at home on Election Day, unwilling to cast aside their manufactured rage for the good of society .....

Or maybe it will be the Obamaites, too angry to put aside self interest, even to the point of handing the reins of the nation off to those who have ravaged it for 8 years running ....

Whatever : I support BOTH of our fine candidates, and yet their supporters leave me wanting for reasonable discourse here ....

[Swamp Rat]

71. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - MASS HYSTERIA!

[Forkboy]

82. LOL

:rofl:

[stuckinlodi]

74. Coathanger Abortions Will Be Back

That's what makes me so angry about Hillary supporters who won't vote for Obama if he's the nominee. They'd rather women die by the coathanger again than vote for Obama. How is that feminism??

[Imagevision]

78. If McSame was elected, we would continue to experience Bushco's downward spiral

tax cuts and health-care benefits for the rich & famous

[Dinger]

79. No Worries

[NC_Nurse]

80. The Democratic party will have proven itself irrelevant.

[Steely_Dan]

83. He Won't Win????

Wow...That's what we all said about Bush in '00 and in '04. There is no possible way he can win...Bush does. Well, there is certainly no possible way he can get re-elected...just no way. He does.

I hope to god I'm wrong. But I do not think that it is impossible for McCain to win. Wait until the RW smear machine starts up. They will throw fear into the average voter to the point that it will at least be a horse-race...if not a McCain win.

We could have had this race wrapped up with a real winner with skill and experience...But no, we have to make presidential history.

Good fuckin' luck.

-P

[DemocratSinceBirth]

93. Please Re-Read My OP

I wouldn't be surprised if McCain won...I would be mildly surprised... 00 really surprised me... I saw 04 coming...It might seem superficial but for many an election choice does come down to whom you would like to have a beer with and watch a football game...Unfortunately, to more folks than not , Bush* and not Kerry fit that bill...

I am not saying who is and isn't an elitist but to be tagged as an elitist in a country where we are taught we are all the same old folk isn't a good place to be...

[Giant Robot]

85. Fear

which leads to anger

Anger leads to hate

Hate leads to suffering....

[Perry Logan]

88. A lot depends on how badly Obama drags down our Congressional candidates.

[baldguy]

89. Then Vice President Clinton gets to tell him what to do.

And gets to succeed him when he dies.

[nichomachus]

90. I will be out of the country before Jan 20

Seriously

[lumberjack_jeff]

92. The rain falls equally hard on "latte liberals" and "toothless West-Virginians" n/t